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OS X Lion Ships With Faulty NVidia Drivers

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the rough-edges-on-the-rollout dept.

Bug 284

TeaCurran writes with this mildly ranty objection to the most recent Mac OS X update; several friends who have made the leap on their MacBook Pros have various other complaints, too, including system slowdowns that resemble crashes (except that their pointers still work) and recurring black screens for some configurations (with or without the kernel panics TeaCurran mentions) — what's been your experience? "Apple OS X Lion shipped with new NVidia video drivers that are causing anyone with a mid 2010 Macbook Pro to get a kernel panic every 5-10 minutes. Apple knew about the issue before shipping lion, hasn't responded to the issue, and is censoring posts in their support forum that mention words like 'boycott' and 'petition.' NVidia has responded that the drivers are the responsibility of Apple so they won't deal with the issue. How a major hardware manufacturer can ship such a faulty product without getting much press about it is completely beyond me."

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Again (5, Informative)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991096)

This isn't the first time this has happened.

Re:Again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991492)

Let the Apple-hating begin!

Captcha: 'Inflame' :D

Does it now? (5, Insightful)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991140)

Apple OS X Lion shipped with new NVidia video drivers that are causing anyone with a mid 2010 Macbook Pro to get a kernel panic every 5-10 minutes.

Oh, yeah? I'm posting this on a mid-2010 17-inch MacBook Pro with an Nvidia card. I've been running Lion developer previews for months, and the only time I've ever have graphics problems is when I'm playing a game and the system gets too hot because my room isn't well-ventilated. In fact, Lion could be the most stable first release of any OS X operating system. I regularly play World of Warcraft, Starcraft II, Borderlands, Left 4 Dead 2, and Team Fortress 2 without issue.

Nvidia isn't saying that nothing will get fixed. Apple works with Nvidia on their drivers. What Nvidia is saying is simply that they can't provide technical support. Removing posts about goofy boycotts and petitions is just clearing out nonsense posts in what is supposed to be a support forum. Apple's support forums are some of the silliest, whiniest forums on the web, and you'll rarely find useful information from the users there.

I also question the claim that "Apple knew about the issue before shipping Lion," as if there's some big conspiracy that Apple knew it was going to cause your machine to black-screen but didn't care. Give me a break.

How a major hardware manufacturer can ship such a faulty product without getting much press about it is completely beyond me.

Because the issue only affects a tiny segment of customers. If, as you claim, every single person with a mid-2010 MBP was getting kernel panics every 5-10 minutes, that would be major news. Like most customers with technical problems, you're acting like it's a bigger deal than it is and that it's affecting more people than it is. Installing a new operating system is a major procedure that can uncover previously invisible problems lurking on a person's computer. That's why, every time there's a console firmware update, you'll see a bunch of posts from people claiming the updates ruined their machines.

Re:Does it now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991170)

my mid-2010 15" MBP w/nvidia graphics has been running lion for several weeks now with no issue.... I can only conclude that I am not anyone.

Re:Does it now? (1)

CJSpil (166214) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991212)

Same here, my 15" MBP with nvidia hasn't crashed on me since installing Lion... maybe I'd better reboot it every 5-10 minutes just so I get the correct user experience ;-)

Re:Does it now? (3, Insightful)

myurr (468709) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991176)

Wow, one laptop makes a trend true now does it. Well I have upgraded to Lion as well and in the last week or so since I jumped my previously fine 2009 17" Macbook Pro has crashed out completely twice. One second it's running, the next it's totally powered off. This has happened once on battery power, once whilst plugged in.

So there are some problems out there, just because it hasn't affected you doesn't mean it ain't so!

Re:Does it now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991220)

While Apple sucks I do think agree these problems exist and can be specific to some environments. For instance if you buy certain wifi cards they work fine with some drivers/routers. If you use them with other configurations (different routers) they don't. But if you switch the driver they do. It isn't necessarily the card that is the problem. A failure for a wifi router to comply with standards can cause issues or the implementation of the specs where no standard yet exists (802.11N draft).

Re:Does it now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991230)

Well, here is a second vote for not having an issue with a Mid-2010 i7 MacBook Pro.

Also, according to the article, the issue is with Mid-2010 MacBook Pro laptops, not your 2009 Macbook Pro. Maybe you should open a ticket with Apple...

Re:Does it now? (4, Insightful)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991290)

Wow, one laptop makes a trend true now does it.

Exactly the same thing could be said to the submitter claiming every single person with a mid-2010 MBP is having kernel panics every five minutes. Do you realize how many customers that is? It would have been huge news the day Lion was released. My point is that the issue obviously only affects a small segment of customers, like most hardware and software issues.

The submitter also claimed Apple "hasn't responded to the issue," but the linked article says they have said that they are looking into it and are taking crash reports.

I see this kind of exaggeration all the time when dealing with technical support issues. Everyone thinks their issue is also affecting everyone else and that there's a conspiracy on the part of the evil company not to help them.

Re:Does it now? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991654)

...and on the flip side, apple has a ton of fanboys like yourself who will defend corporate policy no matter how censorious and anti-consumer it is. Gotta love that religious fervor apple instills in people..

Re:Does it now? (1)

teslafreak (684543) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991852)

As much as I dislike Apple in general (and a bunch of my posts reflect it). "bonch" is right. This clearly isn't as big of an issue as the person is making it out to be. There are a ton of people running Lion just fine, and Apple is looking into the problem for those that aren't. The only place they are in the wrong here is for censoring posts complaining about it (which is kind of an old news tactic from Apple).

Re:Does it now? (1)

fusiongyro (55524) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991602)

I think the OP is questioning the choice of the word "anyone." There are two 2010 MacBook Pros in my house, and neither one has the issue either. Sounds to me like a bad batch rather than an epidemic.

Re:Does it now? (4, Interesting)

d3vi1 (710592) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991678)

My Mid 2010 15" MBP (Core i7, 8GB, SSD) has no problems on Lion. My girlfriend's Late 2009 15" MBP (Core 2 Duo, 8GB, SSD) did occasionally lock after upgrading to Lion. What I've done to solve that was to disable HDD sleeping since it's pointless on SSDs anyway. I noticed that it happened only when the computer was idle for some time (at least enough for the screen to go blank) and when it did resume, I got a black screen with the rainbow spinning wheel.
The results are mixed, as can be expected with a brand new OS, but it's not a tragedy. You can always restore to the pre-upgrade backups that you should always make as a responsible admin.
All new OS versions have bugs, that's why we get the first 1-2 fixes quite soon after the release. Apple is already working on 10.7.2, as 10.7.1 is in QA by now.

Re:Does it now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991858)

make that two that it hasn't affected!

Re:Does it now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991192)

Make sure Apple sees your post. They'll send you extra kool-aid this month...

Re:Does it now? (0)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991364)

They're out of grape this month.

Re:Does it now? (0)

517714 (762276) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991642)

Flavor-Aid, if you please.

Re:Does it now? (1)

rgomezc (992326) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991196)

Agreed. I also have a mid-2010 Macbook Pro 15" and I have not seen one kernel panic. The only ones I got were on my Mac Pro, and that was because I had some old m-audio drivers for my FW410. Other than that, Lion has been pretty solid. The only thing I do have, and could be related, is when going fullscreen mode on VLC (haven't tried Quicktime) and playing a movie. It looks for a moment bad (blocks of different colors, etc.) But it's only for a moment and later the movie keeps going ok.

Re:Does it now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991308)

I'm sick of Lion failures, it crashes very often and I've seen a lot of error screens. For first time since I bought the MacBoock one year ago I had to restart if several times from the power button because Finder was not responding. So yes, it is not working properly and believe me I'm missing Snow Leopard a lot.

Re:Does it now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991440)

You're just another idiot who probably has a lot of unnecessary junk installed in your system, a leftover from your Windows days.

The only sad thing about Mac being so popular now is the incredible amount of morons who made the switch.

Re:Does it now? (1)

TheLandyman (1130027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991526)

Steve doesn't care if you're a moron, your money spends the same. I switched in 2008 and he never complained.... oh wait :(

Re:Does it now? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991208)

Apple OS X Lion shipped with new NVidia video drivers that are causing anyone with a mid 2010 Macbook Pro to get a kernel panic every 5-10 minutes.

Oh, yeah? I'm posting this on a mid-2010 17-inch MacBook Pro with an Nvidia card. I've been running Lion developer previews for months, and the only time I've ever have graphics problems is when I'm playing a game and the system gets too hot because my room isn't well-ventilated. In fact, Lion could be the most stable first release of any OS X operating system. I regularly play World of Warcraft, Starcraft II, Borderlands, Left 4 Dead 2, and Team Fortress 2 without issue.

Nvidia isn't saying that nothing will get fixed. Apple works with Nvidia on their drivers. What Nvidia is saying is simply that they can't provide technical support. Removing posts about goofy boycotts and petitions is just clearing out nonsense posts in what is supposed to be a support forum. Apple's support forums are some of the silliest, whiniest forums on the web, and you'll rarely find useful information from the users there.

I also question the claim that "Apple knew about the issue before shipping Lion," as if there's some big conspiracy that Apple knew it was going to cause your machine to black-screen but didn't care. Give me a break.

How a major hardware manufacturer can ship such a faulty product without getting much press about it is completely beyond me.

Because the issue only affects a tiny segment of customers. If, as you claim, every single person with a mid-2010 MBP was getting kernel panics every 5-10 minutes, that would be major news. Like most customers with technical problems, you're acting like it's a bigger deal than it is and that it's affecting more people than it is. Installing a new operating system is a major procedure that can uncover previously invisible problems lurking on a person's computer. That's why, every time there's a console firmware update, you'll see a bunch of posts from people claiming the updates ruined their machines.

im on a mid 2010 with nvidia graphics. lion works just fine. havent had a single crash for 3 weeks.

Re:Does it now? (3, Insightful)

walternate (2210674) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991244)

Apple OS X Lion shipped with new NVidia video drivers that are causing anyone with a mid 2010 Macbook Pro to get a kernel panic every 5-10 minutes.

Oh, yeah? I'm posting this on a mid-2010 17-inch MacBook Pro with an Nvidia card. I've been running Lion developer previews for months, and the only time I've ever have graphics problems is when I'm playing a game and the system gets too hot because my room isn't well-ventilated. In fact, Lion could be the most stable first release of any OS X operating system. I regularly play World of Warcraft, Starcraft II, Borderlands, Left 4 Dead 2, and Team Fortress 2 without issue.

Nvidia isn't saying that nothing will get fixed. Apple works with Nvidia on their drivers. What Nvidia is saying is simply that they can't provide technical support. Removing posts about goofy boycotts and petitions is just clearing out nonsense posts in what is supposed to be a support forum. Apple's support forums are some of the silliest, whiniest forums on the web, and you'll rarely find useful information from the users there.

I also question the claim that "Apple knew about the issue before shipping Lion," as if there's some big conspiracy that Apple knew it was going to cause your machine to black-screen but didn't care. Give me a break.

How a major hardware manufacturer can ship such a faulty product without getting much press about it is completely beyond me.

Because the issue only affects a tiny segment of customers. If, as you claim, every single person with a mid-2010 MBP was getting kernel panics every 5-10 minutes, that would be major news. Like most customers with technical problems, you're acting like it's a bigger deal than it is and that it's affecting more people than it is. Installing a new operating system is a major procedure that can uncover previously invisible problems lurking on a person's computer. That's why, every time there's a console firmware update, you'll see a bunch of posts from people claiming the updates ruined their machines.

Everything you said could have been repeated for most similar reports at about Windows stability problems. People who have problems will of course complain, and get unfair attention vs all the users that don't have problems. If anything, welcome Apple to the reality of having more than a few users and system variations to care for.

Re:Does it now? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991258)

herp a derp derp!

thanks for your anecdote fanboi!

Re:Does it now? (2, Interesting)

sco08y (615665) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991326)

Same experience. I like Lion, it's just a ton of nice little tweaks and everything else just works. Spaces... it actually works *and* I can set different desktops. Hidden scrollbars... awesome, my monitor is bigger.

And regarding the censorship, you're absolutely right.

From TFS:

Apple knew about the issue before shipping lion, hasn't responded to the issue, and is censoring posts in their support forum that mention words like 'boycott' and 'petition.'

Yeah, because here on /., posts that are hopelessly offtopic are never modded down to death. Are you fucking kidding me, you're really whining that idiotic comments were deleted? Let's do a test, I'll go to CBS news (a typical news site with unmoderated comments) and click the first story I see. Yup, sure enough, the comments are completely fucking retarded. [cbsnews.com]

Re:Does it now? Fanboy much? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991346)

Fanboy much?

Re:Does it now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991450)

I have a 2010 MBP 15" and have never had a kernel panic, either with Snow Leopard or Lion. WTF is this guy going on about? I use my Mac heavily every day and it's been rock solid.

Every 5-10 mins, pff, bite my shiny metal ass.

Lion, 2010 MBP, No Problems. (1)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991468)

I've been running OSX Lion with the machine on 24/7 since release day on my 2010 unibody MBP and I've experienced no crashes whatsoever. Lion is a bit slower than Snow Leopard was for some UI tasks, but the new Mission Control task/desktop switcher more than makes up for any other inconvenience.

Biggest issue I had was that my LiveScribe Desktop wasn't working, but as of today that has been fixed, so now: no complaints whatsoever.

Re:Does it now? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991500)

Yes, it does. I have a 15" MBP mid-2010 and I'm having the same problems discussed in the article and on Apple's discussion forums. When I disable the NVidia GPU and use the integrated graphics only, along with disabling computer/monitor sleep, the problem goes away. The problem is repeatable on my MBP with Lion. It never occurred with Snow Leopard.

The linked discussion on the problem at the Apple support forum was actually very helpful. While it may not affect some it certainty has been affecting others but at least there are some workarounds.

By the way I installed Lion new & clean and not over Snow Leopard, so I seriously doubt it uncovered previously invisible problems lurking on my computer as you said.

You know, your entire post is full of unsubstantiated assertions and in fact some very misleading information.

I haven't noticed a problem either (1)

pathological liar (659969) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991568)

I've seen SOME strange video behaviour since upgrading (usually when resizing a window) that I assumed was driver-related, but I haven't had any panics or lockups. Why do Mac users always blow issues like this way out of proportion?

Re:I haven't noticed a problem either (2)

Americano (920576) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991644)

Take it for what it is: The systems generally work quite well, so when something goes wrong, people freak out and behave like it's the end of the world.

This is exacerbated by sites like Slashdot who love nothing more than to pump pageviews and revenue by getting a bunch of apple-hating and apple-loving trolls trolling each other, to the tune of hundreds of comments per article.

Re:Does it now? (2)

Ossifer (703813) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991682)

Mid-2010 15" MBP here. I use it to develop and test 3D visual analytics software. Neither the kernel nor I have yet to panic...

Re:Does it now? (1)

roscocoltran (1014187) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991736)

I also question the claim that "Apple knew about the issue before shipping Lion," as if there's some big conspiracy that Apple knew it was going to cause your machine to black-screen but didn't care. Give me a break.

Did you have a look at Java 7 already ?

Re:Does it now? (2)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991738)

Apple's support forums are some of the silliest, whiniest forums on the web, and you'll rarely find useful information from the users there.

My God, you got that right. Over the last weekend I was loading up a MacMini with Snow Leopard and getting MySQL installed to work with PHP and Apache. It comes with Apache2. It comes with PHP but just needs a couple of text files edited. MySQL was a little more difficult-- download the package and install. (mcrypt also but that was a genuine effort with source code compiling and all) But, unfortunately, that's not where I started. I started with Google and ended up on any number of Mac related forums advising a LOT of really stupid things. And this "MAMP" tihng? How ridiculous is that?! I just don't see any use for it at all. If someone wants to make a useful "easy" package, then they need to write some scripts to pull down MySQL, install it and tweak some text files.

Worse, I had upgraded the HDD on the MacMini to 500GB and the little cable on the sound board came lose when I was putting it back together. Eventually the sound dropped out and I searched those same forums, They all claimed it was a software problem and that all I needed to do was acquire an older kext from and older kernel to fix it. I did that and it obviously didn't work and I kept reading how this happend after "upgrading." I read a few more and they were talking about upgrading hard drives... and then I went... oh... I think I know what happened now... These idiots left something unplugged or disconnected... well... me too I guess but it was working at first so I guess it was just loose. Anyway, from their inability to blame themselves I realized it was their fault, then I went into my mini and sure enough, the cable was loose. Reattached and it was back like that.

I don't care how smart YOU are. You could be a frikken genius but it doesn't change anything. Generally speaking, Apple attracts some pretty dumb people to their products.

Re:Does it now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991886)

You do realize that HDD is not a user-serviceable part on your Mac Mini, right? What makes you think you'll get proper help on an Apple support forum after you do that?

Selective reporting (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991148)

"How a major hardware manufacturer can ship such a faulty product without getting much press about it is completely beyond me."

It is easy to explain... Apple is the Obama of the tech world.

Re:Selective reporting (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991240)

Oh, you're going to get modded down...

After all, Slashdot... The home of Selective Reporting!

Re:Selective reporting (0)

citylivin (1250770) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991784)

"Apple is the Obama of the tech world."

I wish! If obama was like apple, he would have already:

- Forced through all the laws he wanted without debate
- Locked everyone into a government mandated healthcare store
- Told anyone that disagreed with him that they were "living the wrong way"
- Lowered life insurance policy terms to 90 days, and when people complained, offered to sell them "extended" life insurance for hundreds of dollars a year
- Brutally suppressed anyone who dared post a picture of any infrastructure under construction
- Turned everyone gay

Similar GPU crashes... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991174)

Have been occurring recently in windows for anyone with a 8000, 9000, or 200 series Nvidia GPU. The latest version of the source engine (currently used in TF2 and Portal 2) triggers it quite reliably every 10-20 minutes.

Yep (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991222)

My MBP 2010 has this problem. Hoping 10.7.1 fixes it, or it's back to Snow Leopard Apple.

Re:Yep (2)

Ryanrule (1657199) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991318)

Windows 7 works great!

No big deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991224)

Not a big deal, every computer does this. Just put a big rubber casing around it and you'll be fine.

Faulty specs? (0)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991232)

When you're writing a driver you're working to the specifications provided by the manufacturer. I know from experience these can be correct.

So even if it is Apple's code you can't really blame them if they've written their driver to dodgy specs.

Re:Faulty specs? (4, Insightful)

kevinmenzel (1403457) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991296)

You damn well can, because they insist on writing the drivers themselves. Hell, even the bootcamp video drivers aren't the same as the official nVidia drivers, and worse - every time you update Bootcamp, it replaces whatever video driver you HAVE installed to get better performance, with the latest version that THEY want to provide you. If they just let the hardware manufacturers code the drivers, and had some sort of driver certification process, this wouldn't be such a problem, would it.

Re:Faulty specs? (1)

Americano (920576) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991666)

You have yet to establish that this is "such a problem" in the first place, so it's hard to understand what problem you're thinking would be solved by letting nVidia write their own drivers.

Re:Faulty specs? (1)

gmueckl (950314) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991762)

For starters you would get the same set of driver bugs and features as on the other platforms, because nVidia really only has one driver with different interface layers for different systems. This would reduce the pain of working around driver bugs in cross-platform products a lot.

Re:Faulty specs? (1)

Americano (920576) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991836)

So letting the vendor replicate its bugs and idiosyncrasies across all platforms in perfect sync is a good thing? Systems which are written & tested to clearly documented requirements tend to have a higher quality implementation and documentation. If the same people who write the requirement specs are the people writing the code to implement those requirements, then you open the door for all kinds of shenanigans, like "Well the spec says X, but it's so much easier to do Y, and nobody will ever notice - we can just update the spec after the fact to reflect the change."

Apple pushing nVidia to clearly document its interfaces and discovering disconnects between "actual behavior" and "expected behavior" based on a written spec is a good thing for all of nVidia's users. If your interfaces are so brittle that people are regularly exposing significant issues when they write code against them, you're doing something wrong.

Re:Faulty specs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991378)

... I know from experience these can be correct. ...

Oh no, they can be correct? How can they live with themselves..

Re:Faulty specs? (1)

polaris20 (893532) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991684)

Then why did these machines work perfectly fine under previous versions of the OS?

Problems with software that uses the card (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991246)

Seems like there is problems with software that uses the GT 330M on my machine extensively, an example is autocad.

Drivers are responsibility of NVidia (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991266)

"NVidia has responded that the drivers are the responsibility of Apple so they won't deal with the issue."

From everything I've heard from the inside, this isn't true. The video drivers are written by NVidia and then have source drops into Apple. Yes, Apple is the one who typically controls their release, but the actual bugs are the result of NVidia engineering.

I've been having graphics driver issues on other chipsets as well in Lion.

Re:Drivers are responsibility of NVidia (3, Informative)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991320)

One of the reasons for choosing a Mac over a PC is that it is the responsibility of Apple and you do not need to worry about drivers and incompatibilities. Its in all in an integrated platform where you plug it in and work.

This issue of responsibility of hardware driver issues is why Windows sucks and also why Windows XP is still popular. People are afraid to upgrade their pc's with the OS that it came with. You are rolling dice when upgrading drivers or operating systems.

Re:Drivers are responsibility of NVidia (4, Insightful)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991392)

What Nvidia is saying is that they can't provide technical support.

how tied are Nvidia / ATI hands hands? (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991826)

Are there forced to use apple hardware vs there own test rigs?
Is the lack of good priced desktop tower makeing driver coding for fail under the windows / Linux side that has systems that start at $500-$700 that let you add in a good video card / use a PCI-E video card VS $2500 on the mac. In the past with G4 and G5 there where lot's of mac ATI and nvidia cards + card flashing.
Do they get new apple hardware before others?
Can they make chip family based drivers or does apple force them to code a driver for each small different spin of the chip.
Do they have the full OSX source or just what other dev's get?
Do they have to use apple roms? even if just for testing?
can they just use any EFI base roms? even if just for testing?
Can they use flat drivers like how the windows ATI / NVIDIA drivers are?

It's Apple, it just works, think different (-1, Flamebait)

syousef (465911) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991270)

Come on fanboys, tell me again how intuitive and stylish Apple is and how "it just works". "Think different".

This will get modded troll or flame bait but it isn't - it drives me INSANE that otherwise intelligent people fall for such marketing BS. All companies have problems, and if you're expecting everything made by one company with moving parts or electronics to "just work" you need to get off the sauce.

Re:It's Apple, it just works, think different (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991370)

No no no, you don't get it. It's not a problem, it's just trendy to have your computer freeze after a few minutes - it shows the world how much of a free spirit you are.

Re:It's Apple, it just works, think different (3, Interesting)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991426)

Apple is intuitive, stylish, and their software just works. They think differently.

If you're claiming that Apple fans think the hardware and software is flawless, you've obviously never visited MacRumors, AppleInsider, and other Apple forums. Apple customers are the whiniest critics in existence and will complain about mismatched colors at the pixel level (granted, the guy I'm talking about was an interface designer, but still).

But yes, all the high-level qualities about Apple are true, which is why they have such a devoted fanbase and billions of dollars in the bank.

Re:It's Apple, it just works, think different (2)

mcmonkey (96054) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991524)

Apple is intuitive, stylish, and their software just works. They think differently.

Are saying iTunes is either not software or not from Apple? Because it certainly is not intuitive, stylish, not just works

Re:It's Apple, it just works, think different (1)

Sorny (521429) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991620)

Try iTunes on a Mac.

Re:It's Apple, it just works, think different (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991782)

Having a lot of money in the bank is not necessarily proof that those "qualities" are true. It could also be that they are very good at marketing their products and that's why they have that money. A devoted fan base? plenty of other platforms have a fan base and those high level qualities are nowhere to be seen (as in Justin Bieber).

  It appeals to you - but their "software just works" is BS (i've seen this problem with one of the few macs I have available in the office). Intuitive? Certainly debatable, stylish, maybe.

Re:It's Apple, it just works, think different (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991540)

Weird.

It's not just some magical marketing trick that people fall for. Apple actually does things a bit different, their approach is an interesting one. I don't know any Apple user who claims their computers and other devices are perfect or never have problems. That seems to be the impression that non-Apple users get...somehow they believe Apple users think their stuff is flawless, but no one actually thinks that.

Periodically an Apple product has a newsworthy issue, and then the critics come crawling out of the woodwork, screaming "See! Apple sucks!" while leaving out the glaring fact that there's a lot fewer and less horrible issues than any product from say Dell or HP. I'm not even an Apple-only person and I think it's silly the things non-apple folks believe about Apple products.

Re:It's Apple, it just works, think different (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991614)

If Apple tried tries to hide their issues, why is the newest Apple store (The Americana in Glendale) getting 50 chairs at the Genius Bar?

Re:It's Apple, it just works, think different (0)

certain death (947081) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991652)

I wish I had mod points - I would have given you +5 for use the term "get off the sauce"!! LOLOL!!!

Re:It's Apple, it just works, think different (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991670)

Apple computers do 'just work'. There is nothing wrong with Lion. Lion is perfect. I haven't upgraded yet, but I know it's perfect because Apple made it. If some users computers are crashing because of the nvidia drivers, it's the fault of the user - they are just using their computers wrong.

FU apple for telling me to hold my iphone 4 'correctly'

In this thread...... (3, Funny)

polaris20 (893532) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991274)

anecdotal evidence of single experiences are given as credible information. One laptop != significant indication of reliability, or lack there of. We've got a couple nVidia-equipped machines that are working fine too, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem, despite my vast Lion user base of four users currently testing the OS.

Re:In this thread...... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991542)

Given the homogeneity of Apple hardware, any driver issue would likely be universal within a given model; thus, there must be another factor at play.

Re:In this thread...... (1)

Em Adespoton (792954) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991816)

The other factor at play is likely the operator causing the crash... my bet's on OpenCL, which has been modified in Lion. Most people won't experience the glitch due to not using the OpenCL operator, but any time it gets called, bam! System goes down hard, with no kernel panic, crash logs, etc.

Re:In this thread...... (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991798)

No, but if you read the larger list of people saying the same things, you can see patterns emerging. The article is wrong. Many people here, if you haven't noticed, have the problem with 2009 Macs but not with 2010 Macs. Seems to me the author was either mistaken or got a very early 2010 batch machine.

Re:In this thread...... (1)

polaris20 (893532) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991842)

My point is people chiming in with just one machine is irrelevant as a yard stick for the problem, whether they're experiencing the problem or not.

Not news (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991288)

Linsux has been doing that for years. Eat shit you open source lemmings. Your faggot OS pet project lost the OS wars. It's fucking over and you are left sucking shit. Faggot loving Slashdot tries to keep hope alive but the numbers tell the truth. Linux couldn't do in 20 years what Apple has done in 2. Not even close.
 
FUCK YOU OPEN SORES!!!! FUCK YOU IN THE ASS!!! F/OSS is dog shit.

Re:Not news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991434)

You do realize that Apple use a lot of open source software in their products? For instance, basing it on FreeBSD.

The wonderful thing about Apple product (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991298)

Remember, Apple is better than Windows because it "Just Works".

Re:The wonderful thing about Apple product (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991650)

And when it doesn't, they fix it. My son had a Mac Book Pro with a faulty video. He took it to the Mac store and they fixed it for him. The repair cost was about $1200 but they didn't charge him a dime.

Engage reality distortion field (1)

gstrickler (920733) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991310)

These are not the faulty drivers you're looking for.

Well, there's always the Windows partition (1)

AaronMK (1375465) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991316)

Haven't experienced this with my 2009 unibody with an nVidia card on Lion, but it does not seem like I should be expecting to either.

In any case, I have Windows on bootcamp if bugs in Lion ever become an issue. Unlike Lion which only has partial OpenGL 3.2 support, I get full OpenGL 3.3 support on the windows side, so I'm on there for my graphics coding projects anyway.

Falsehood (3, Interesting)

ArAgost (853804) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991330)

Apple OS X Lion shipped with new NVidia video drivers that are causing anyone with a mid 2010 Macbook Pro to get a kernel panic every 5-10 minutes.

Uh, what? I've yet to see a MBP with Lion getting a KP. Do editors really fall for this obvious linkbaiting?

Mid 2010 MBP 15" with Nvidia (1)

beadfulthings (975812) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991382)

No kernel panics here. I did have a tooth-gnashing amount of irritation with an update needed for Adobe CS5, but aside from that misadventure (which took a couple of hours of swearing to put right), Lion has been a giant snooze. No overheating, no bashing and thrashing, no sudden power issues. In fact, "snooze" is probably the right word, since I haven't yet found anything about it to impress me, either.

Re:Mid 2010 MBP 15" with Nvidia (1)

rsborg (111459) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991710)

No kernel panics here. I did have a tooth-gnashing amount of irritation with an update needed for Adobe CS5, but aside from that misadventure (which took a couple of hours of swearing to put right), Lion has been a giant snooze. No overheating, no bashing and thrashing, no sudden power issues. In fact, "snooze" is probably the right word, since I haven't yet found anything about it to impress me, either.

Same, 'cept I'm rocking a 2010 13" MBP... only problem I have with Lion is that my Office 2004 won't work anymore (not a huge loss, but Pages '09 doesn't like a *some* of my Word docs). Oh, that and my SSL VPN provider is usually about 9 months late to release OSX drivers.

cant you just update them? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991386)

So the shipped drivers suck... you can download updates from Nvidia can't you?

GET A MAC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991418)

oh wait...

History of this.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991432)

Good luck getting this addressed, my mid 2009 MBP can't use any SATA-II drives (even though it's a "supported" technology for this model) because of a broken EFI firmware update (1.7) and it's been almost 2 years since they released it without a fix. Apple hasn't released a supported way of rolling the firmware back so I could at least use my "supported" after market hard drive either (even at SATA 1.5 speeds, I'd be happy). Despite threads on apple's forums thousands of posts long with affected customers, Apple still hasn't addressed the problem...

The really disturbing part of the story. (4, Interesting)

grimmjeeper (2301232) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991442)

I've been using computers since the 70's. I've seen every major manufacturer have problems over the years. Despite protests to the contrary, Apple is not immune. This is not the first time they've had software issues. It won't be the last. It doesn't make them any different than any other computer supplier. That's just the way things go.

But software issues aren't the real problem. The real problem is right here:

Apple knew about the issue before shipping lion, hasn't responded to the issue, and is censoring posts in their support forum that mention words like 'boycott' and 'petition.'

Censoring technical discussions? Removing posts?

Seriously?

This is the kind of crap that really opens up Apple for criticism. Sure, it's a problem. But you deal with it by coming out and saying "we know we have a problem, we're going to fix it". Some people will rant and rave. Some people will take the initial problem as an excuse to boycott Apple products in the future. Most likely though, people who cry "boycott" will calm down in a few minutes and accept the software upgrade push to fix the problem. After all, consumers are quick to be incensed but they're easily mollified by good customer support. That is, until Apple goes and deletes their posts. That's exactly what you want to not do. Everyone is going to see you do it. You're going to generate tons of bad publicity by yourself and you're going to drive away customers who would have otherwise accepted the fix when it's available.

This is an incredibly bad move on the part of Apple. I can't understand why in the world they would do it. That is, unless the stereotypes are true about no one being allowed to criticize Apple. And if that's the case, it's no wonder they're never able to break out of their niche.

Re:The really disturbing part of the story. (3, Insightful)

Americano (920576) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991770)

After all, consumers are quick to be incensed but they're easily mollified by good customer support.

And with some of the highest customer satisfaction ratings in the industry, isn't it possible that perhaps Apple knows something about good customer support that you don't?

I don't know, maybe they've discovered that it's a bad idea to let your support forums turn into a whining trollfest full of threats of boycotts and lawsuits, related to an issue that has just been found, and might be a software, hardware, manufacturer or "user error" type of issue? I can't imagine how increasing the amount of unhelpful whining on customer support forums is a "good" thing for the general user base - it contributes nothing useful to help people troubleshoot, and it's just going to bog down the support forums.

Re:The really disturbing part of the story. (3, Informative)

Em Adespoton (792954) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991862)

The real problem is right here:

Apple knew about the issue before shipping lion, hasn't responded to the issue, and is censoring posts in their support forum that mention words like 'boycott' and 'petition.'

Censoring technical discussions? Removing posts?

Seriously?

This is the kind of crap that really opens up Apple for criticism. Sure, it's a problem. But you deal with it by coming out and saying "we know we have a problem, we're going to fix it".

They are indeed censoring technical discussions, removing content that has nothing to do with the technical discussion. There are other places to post rants and complaints that are non-technical. Personally, I'd think this was a good thing, except for the fact that Apple's support forums have a dearth of technical discussion at the best of times. The result? MacFixit for the technical discussion, various other places for the rants, and Apple doesn't get the lively discussion and technical feedback on their own forums that they really need to improve things. Not sure how they can fix this though.

As for "you deal with it by coming out and saying 'we know we have a problem, we're going to fix it,'" that's exactly what the article says they've done. They're asking for any data customers can provide -- they're just not getting any; only rants and petitions.

Nvidia 320m equipped mini (0)

Pop69 (700500) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991446)

No problems here with Lion so if there is something up with Nvidia drivers its not affecting my machine

No Kernel Panics here... ??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991472)

13" Mid-2010 MBP here... running Lion since dev builds... no kernel panics. I have however, gotten the slowdown issue... and other visual glitches (especially when scrolling)... my take: if you need rock-solid reliability, stick with Snow Leopard until 10.7.1 is out. Otherwise, if you can stand occasional oddness, and like to play with cool new things - sure give it a go.

And if you do get those kernel panics every 5 min, take it back to Apple and complain - either make them give you your $30 back and re-install Snow Leopard for you, or make them fix what I presume is an underlying hardware problem.

Let me thank (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991476)

all the early adopter of "OS X Lion" for beta testing the OS for me.

Apple is like religion (1)

Stonefish (210962) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991486)

It's a bug, the vendor is behaving badly and attempting to control the media. What should be happening is
It's a bug, the vendor should be apologising and assisting users.
In short apple users you should be taking your money elsewhere where the vendor treats you with respect but ... apple is like religion....

Apple is like religion, if you criticise you're a heretic, where reality and marketing differ you must accept marketing and worst of all is the viewpoint that the rest of the world are deluded and need saving. Worst of all is that you can't bring yourself to objectively look at the problem, instead you justify the relationship using some past event.

Re:Apple is like religion (1)

517714 (762276) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991878)

Boycott is a strong threat. Why would any company let its forums be used for activities that are clearly not in its interests? Apple is not censoring posts requesting assistance in a civilized manner, the respect you speak of should flow in both directions.

BS story. All I see posted in comments (1)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991498)

above is "2010 MBP here, with Lion, no problems" over and over again, including the same thing from myself.

Looks like the results of this straw poll are in, and they are that the story is BS and /. has been had once again.

Re:BS story. All I see posted in comments (1)

smudj (1983234) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991740)

maybe take a look at the apple forums link? First page, 10 users reporting the problem, not one.

Faulty drivers or faulty chips? (1)

kbotc (1856796) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991506)

I haven't seen the kernel panics myself, but I have seen several 2010 MBPs come in with bad video cards. If you go to an Apple Authorized Reseller, not to an Apple Store, you may get to hear someone say "Yes, we know of the issue and will fix it for you." Apple Retail Stores are specifically told to never admit that there's a fundamental problem with an Apple design, even when there is (Like the old iBook's video card seating issue). I'm just assuming Lion's hitting the card a little bit harder and the hardware flaws are showing up finally. Do all the kernel panics say "NVRM[0/1:0:0]: Read Error 0x00000100: CFG" to start? If so, you better drag that computer in and force Apple to do something about it.

Censoring (2)

jaysones (138378) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991548)

The link to "Apple censoring posts" leads to a 30 page discussion on Apple's site. They're terrible at censorship, apparently!

You're holding it wrong... (4, Funny)

PinchDuck (199974) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991592)

Apple will release a video of Steve Jobs showing you how to hold the computer properly.

MacBook Pro - no issues (1)

certain death (947081) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991628)

I am running Lion on a Macbook Pro, it is a mid 2010 model I believe, though I am not really anal enough to care. I upgraded it to Lion after about 3-4 months on the developers release and haven't had any issues at all. I also upgraded my 2009 iMac and my wife's 2008 white Macbook. The only issue with any of them has been changing the mouse scrolling back to _MY_ natural scrolling way!

Mac isn't the only one! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991658)

I have an HP desktop which is about 4 or 5 years old. It has nVidia GeForce 7100 onboard grapuics. A lot pf the big name Distros keep shipping their Linux Distros with that nueveau driver and all I get is a torn up tiled, pixelated screen! The 273 driver works fine. Apple isn't the only one with problems. The HP I have was sold by a lot of large retailers like Walmart, so there has to be a boat load of these out there.

Let's call this article what it is. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991676)

FUD.

Or is that only something Linux users can do?

Censorship. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991714)

"...How a major hardware manufacturer can ship such a faulty product without getting much press about it is completely beyond me."

Clearly you don't understand the point (goal) of censorship then, do you?

Something sounds fishy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36991722)

Given that mac's tend to use the same hardware etc... it would make sense that ALL systems would experience the same problems, or at least most if they're firmware/hardware revisions were the same. However I think their support departments don't provide people support at all. How about providing those people some help, like moving to a pc and running a real OS like linux mint :) I'm just waiting until people get tired, not of the company making mistakes, but rather not owning up to them like a real man. Any other company that makes mistakes, apologizes, tries to assist people, and restore their image rather than comb their hair back and say "I don't know what you're talking about". I can say I don't like mac, not because of their girly products but because the attitude they have towards their own customers, as if the customer isn't #1, or even #10. The way a person is practically reprimanded for wanting to be just a little different. I want to almost say it's hitler-like.

Late 2010 MacBook Air, with problems (1)

franciscohs (1003004) | more than 3 years ago | (#36991734)

I'm having problems on a late 2010 MacBook Air. I'm a new mac user, and have been very satisfied with hardware and OS (some things I don't like about OS X, but that's another story). I've updated to Lion mainly for the full disk encryption feature.

I've been having multiple crashes, in different forms. There are a lot more slow downs than with Snow Leopard (I basically didn't have any) and some of those slow down's turn into crashes or permanent unresponsiveness. Last one, safari suffered one of these slow downs upon opening a new tab, this disabled the menu bar, changing to another application enabled it and I could go to the "Force Quit" option (didn't know the shortcut yet), Force quit menu didn't appear, another application stopped responding, etc. Always the same cascading effect until the system is unusable.

I'm kind of pissed at this, specially considering how well the system worked before.

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