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Philly Answers Youth Flash Mobs With Curfew Enforcement

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the at-last-a-flash-mob-with-a-mob-mentality dept.

Communications 377

Not that it's the first city to enforce a youth curfew, and not that kids on a crime-spree is the only variety of moral panic offered as a rationale, but Philadelphia is cracking down through increased enforcement of a youth curfew law after children and teenagers attacked two people in the Center City district — attacks which, according to police, were coordinated via text messaging.

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377 comments

land of the free. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008064)

not.

Re:land of the free. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008126)

"There is no excuse for young people to be able to participate in coordinated, violent behavior if parents are doing their job. It is your responsibility, not the government's, to watch your kids."

There is no excuse for Philly police to be unable to catch coordinated, violent criminals, no matter what size the criminals are.

What if the parents are responsible and little Johnny has shown enough maturity to stay out late without a helicopter mom hovering nearby?

In the land of the free, I guess it's a crime to be out after 10 PM.

Re:land of the free. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008196)

You are pretty much an idiot :) I'm not sure if you know what riots look like but these range from huge riots to just mobs of kids running through the streets snatching things and assaulting people randomly. Also, Philly has had a curfew since I was a kid and my friend was just recounting a story of getting a citation from the police and screamed at by his parents as 14 year old out at 4am. PS: He's white so pre-empting any sort of race thing here, they enforce these curfews across the board.

Re:land of the free. (2)

Luckyo (1726890) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008748)

So, on one hand you want to be free, complain about the curfew as well as police having ability to enforce it.

On the other hand, you want police to take care of child criminals, absolving parents from responsibility.

Have you ever heard a saying "you can't have your cake and eat it too"?

Re:land of the free. (2, Insightful)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 2 years ago | (#37009030)

Except that those are two different scenarios. On one hand, they don't want police enforcing a curfew. On the other hand, they want police to take care of the few people that actually commit crimes. The latter has little to do with the former.

Re:land of the free. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008460)

lol? @ AC1

Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008080)

And in this case, it wasn't really a flash mob at all, it was just a gang of hoodlums.

This story doesn't seem relevant to this site at all to me.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008182)

Yes, a gang of *black* hoodlums, attacking innocent whites in race-hatred motivated motivated attacks.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (1)

iONiUM (530420) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008212)

I think this is more about "your rights." Lest we forget, we were all young once too, and not all of us were idiots. They're taking rights away. I mean, just look at this quote:

“No good things can happen to young people at that hour.”

Seems like a slippery slope to "No good things can happen to people at that hour.", no? Rights are rights, /. fights so hard for children's rights in schools, and there have been many postings about how so and so's son was expelled for "hacking." Why not out-cry over this?

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (2)

pnewhook (788591) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008274)

I actually agree with that quote. There is no good reason whatsoever for any teenager to be out after midnight, unless they are coming home from work.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (1)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008336)

There is absolutely no good reason for a teenager to be working up until or after midnight; homework and being well-rested for school are incompatible with a job that late in the evening.

One fine summer day... (2)

Joe U (443617) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008512)

I remember back when I was 17. I would think to myself, "If only there was a time of year where there was no school and I could get a job to earn some extra cash."

I hope one day future generations could have some kind of vacation in the summer where they could work to earn extra money, even if it involves the occasional late shift.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008362)

WTF is wrong with you. There are lots of reasons and you can't even see past your own hypocrisy. You just gave one example. Just because you can't think of others doesn't mean they don't exist. Besides. When did I need a justification for being out late? I'm not a youth and that doesn't matter. The same applies to youth as to adults. Just like there are plenty of reasons for an adult to be out late the same is true for children.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (2)

NeoMorphy (576507) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008612)

This isn't a suburb, it's Philadelphia, it has one of the highest murder rates in the country.If a parent thinks it's okay for their child to be wondering around Philadelphia at night, they obviously don't care if that child makes it back home.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008364)

"There is no good reason whatsoever for any teenager to be out after midnight,"

When I was a teenager I used to jog then. Much cooler, less traffic.

I can think of about a dozen other good reasons to be out after midnight without even trying.

How about you waltz on back to whatever repressive regime you came from and leave the rest of us alone to try to have a free country? Because it's people like you that are turning us into a mirror of whatever human-rights-free "people's republic" you seem to want to emulate.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (1, Insightful)

pnewhook (788591) | more than 2 years ago | (#37009032)

If you consider a free country as one that allows youth mobs running around robbing and beating the crap out of random people, then you can have it. Personally I consider a free country to be one where I can walk around freely and not have to worry about such things. Where I live there are no curfews cause there is no NEED of a curfew. There are no flash mobs, there are no race driven gang fights

Freedom is great until people abuse those freedoms and impact the freedoms of others. Restricting the freedom of a few teenagers to stay out at night when there is no valid reason to stay out is minor compared to the freedom gained by not having to worry about being mobbed.

I'd much rather live in my world than yours. Your freedom is imaginary - mine is real.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (2)

damnbunni (1215350) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008648)

I used to get up at two or three in the morning and go fishing before school.

Seems like a perfectly valid reason to be out of the house after midnight to me.

Just because YOUR teen-hood was so dull you didn't have a reason to be out late doesn't mean there aren't reasons. Hell, I had a couple of friends who would take late-night walks in the cemetery and write angsty bad poetry. Weird? Maybe. Worth arresting them over? No.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (2)

king neckbeard (1801738) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008664)

In free societies, you don't need a good reason to do something. Instead, you need a good reason to not be able to do something, and there is not a good reason to categorically stop minors from being out late at night.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (0)

RightwingNutjob (1302813) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008890)

How about: it's easier to enforce a blanket ban than it is to nondeterministically guess which group of kids out late are up to no good and which ones aren't.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008758)

Posting again since some a** modded this down to -1.

"There is no good reason whatsoever for any teenager to be out after midnight,"

When I was a teenager I used to jog then. Much cooler, less traffic. I can think of about a dozen other good reasons to be out after midnight without even trying.

How about you waltz on back to whatever repressive regime you came from and leave the rest of us alone to try to have a free country? Because it's people like you that are turning us into a mirror of whatever human-rights-free "people's republic" you seem to want to emulate.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (2)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 2 years ago | (#37009042)

There is no good reason

According to you. However, "good" is subjective. Some people might find "good" reasons to be out at that time period.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (3, Interesting)

insertwackynamehere (891357) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008338)

I was a teenager in Philly and there was a curfew. These curfews make sense, I really don't think you are from there if you don't understand why. Currently, these "flash mobs" are sporadic riots involving violence. Imagine living there. Does some kid being out at 12 at night seem more important than not getting mugged and assaulted out of the blue in what you would think is a nice area because there are literally people around everywhere?

The curfew is not enforced racially, for the record. Under 18, you go in. My friend was telling me about how a while back (7 years maybe) he was out at 4am in Philly when he was like 15 and the police cited him and called his parents and he got in a lot of trouble. He's white. These curfews are because a lot of kids do cause problems that late. Right now, yes, there is the disenfranchised black youth, but let's not act like we can't be against violence in the streets if it means we have to acknowledge instances of violence that generally center around a specific population. All it means is we should probably figure out what is making Philadelphia's black youth so mad (there are a lot of obvious things that come to mind) and at the same time don't let them act out in the interim as we try and fix it because no matter what the reasoning, innocent people shouldn't be hospitalized and stores and delis shouldn't be destroyed. No one has the right to do these things to people.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008954)

And precisely when are teens supposed to learn how to make their own decisions? I don't think that there's any good reason for 14 year olds to be out that late by themselves, but at some point, kids do need the chance to start growing up before they turn 18.

Sort of reminds me a bit about a kid I knew in high school. His parents were extremely protective and while typically a very responsible person, he'd more or less go nuts on the weekends that they weren't around. I'd be surprised if he'd do that if he had the opportunity to work on moderation instead of being stifled most days.

not just flash mobs attacking, they are all BLACK (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008508)

You know, democracy and political correctness are completely and fundamentally incompatible.

Democracy can only work if people are free to discuss the issues that are affecting them.

Such discussions need to include all the facts. Political correctness censors all facts that expose that the ideologies that the government is trying to impose upon everyone is incompatible with reality. All reality that proves that such ideologies are impossible, bad idea, are politically incorrect to mention. Censored.

Unlimited alien (genetically) immigration is one of those ideologies. Any facts that show that importing racial enemies is a bad idea are censored.

An interesting conflict of their stance comes out of their trying to suppress reality. They claim that the world is becoming over populated. They then only ever say the solution is for us to stop breeding. They never say to cut off immigration from nations which are irresponsible with their own breeding rate. In one speech they will say we need more immigration because our birth rate is too low. In another speech they will say that we have too many people, stop breeding, stop being so irresponsible.

If only those who are responsible and moral enough to decrease their fertility rate do so, then only people who cannot help themselves will be populating the earth. The will to control oneself for the good of the environment will be bred out of existence.

Such destructive results, such conflicts of paradigm, will always occur when you fight reality and truth in order to promote your ideology.

Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008622)

Abridging the lawful right to assemble would be of interest to all sites I would think especially if the state was using the moral panic of a single attack to ban all sorts of other lawful activities.

***ORGANISATION OF HORRIBLE ATTACK FOLLOWS*** (0)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008086)

Gentlemen!!! First they came for me...

I am a [ Apple user ] of [ unknown age ] looking to organise an attack at [ any and all Apple stores ]. But keep it under your [ iPads ]!!! I wouldn't want them shutting down allllll [ Apple stores ].

I am a [ socialist ] of [ long hair ] looking to organise an attack at [ within 20 miles of every single government building ]. But keep it under your [ Lenin caps ]!!! I wouldn't want them shutting down allllll [ places where young people gather ].

The Man (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008090)

See folks, as our economy declines into a Third World one - no thanks to the Republicans and the TEA Party - we're going to see more civil unrest. Of course, the rich and powerful are scared shitless of this and they're going to have more and more of these rules put into place until we have a police state. Of course, there will be plenty of backing from our fellow peons - you know the "law and order" and "if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about" Republicans.

I'd rather give away half then having it all taken away.
-Joseph P. Kennedy when asked why a super rich guy like him backed the Democrats

Re:The Man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008172)

If you think enforcing one law to try to prevent future crime is the action of a police state, then I hate to break it to you, but we've been in a police state as long as you've been alive.

Re:The Man (1, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008226)

See folks, as our economy declines into a Third World one - no thanks to the Republicans and the TEA Party - we're going to see more civil unrest. Of course, the rich and powerful are scared shitless of this and they're going to have more and more of these rules put into place until we have a police state. Of course, there will be plenty of backing from our fellow peons - you know the "law and order" and "if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about" Republicans.

I'd rather give away half then having it all taken away. -Joseph P. Kennedy when asked why a super rich guy like him backed the Democrats

I agree with you except for the part where you don't perceive the Democrats as also being a coequal part of the problem.

The damage they do could not be done without you. Just like the damage the Republicans do couldn't be done without their own apologists.

It's time to recognize that they are two branches of a single party, the purpose of which is to monopolize political power and lock out all competitors who are not vetted by one of the two branches. It is very much like the trade guilds of old. Neither one gives a damn about you. Neither wants a prosperous, smoothly-running nation with no crises to solve, no fires to put out, nothing to be afraid of. Neither wants an empowered, politically active average person who can think critically and will stand on principle no matter what.

What they really want are a bunch of fat, stupid, dependent, needy, divided, emotionally immature people who bicker and play blame games. This means zero accountability. It also means that when someone cries foul, it is not taken seriously because everyone cries foul all the time. Everything is the other party's fault, except the members of the other party feel that way too.

Re:The Man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008240)

Philly is perfectly capable of turning itself into a third-world economy with a democrat party lock on the city.

The sad fact is that Democrats and Republicans have been criminally irresponsible at spending other people's money.

And the TEA Party is not taking anything down. Gravity and reality are taking us down, and bullshit political narratives will not be saving us.

Re:The Man (3, Insightful)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008262)

It's all the Tea party's fault? Come on, you've got the wrong narrative here. The "flash mobs" are African-Americans, and this new enforcement is just racism. Philadelphia is a highly liberal area [firedoglake.com]. Of course, the idea that liberals are using the thug police to oppress African-Americans is bound to cause some cognitive dissonance, but it's nothing that reading some Marx won't cure.

Re:The Man (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008384)

It's not the Tea Party's fault, it's the deteriorating economies fault ... the Tea Party just isn't very helpful in that regard (although ultimately it's the oil dependency and lack of commitment in fixing it which is the true problem). As wealth inequality increases while median income decreases the only way to preserve peace and order will have to be to increase policing.

Re:The Man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008406)

The fact that the flash mobs are black doesn't give them any more right to cause violence and mayhem. I'd love to know why you think it does. Also, if you are so far removed from the concept of not wanting to get beaten up or mugged (a pretty rational feeling), you probably are posting from somewhere you don't even have to think about impoverishment or minorities. So your ivory tower attitude about how racist everyone is who doesn't like getting assaulted in the middle of the street is disingenuous and stupid. It's pretty much exactly the same attitude that leads to "why don't poor people just find jobs" except you are channeling it into "why don't white people in these neighborhoods just deal with it because some white people once owned slaves". Either way you don't have to worry about it or hold a viewpoint that isn't selfish and naive and removed.

Re:The Man (2)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008344)

See folks, as our economy declines into a Third World one - no thanks to the Republicans and the TEA Party - we're going to see more civil unrest.

Which would, presumably, explain why the Democrat government of Philadelphia decided to impose a curfew and then to enforce it?

Re:The Man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008960)

Good luck on civil unrest part. Another Kent State will make sure there won't be any protestors on the street, and the US has a lot of prison capacity.

Revolution is completely impossible in the US on that level.

These are old-fashioned mob mobs (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008160)

The last two attacks were not organized online AND occurred BEFORE the proposed curfew times.

These wildings have also happening on and around the market and broad lines just after school dismission times.

And it has been happening with 10-11-year-olds and supposedly good graduates of the school system, not just some crack kids.

Shows how all the wonder of the center city revitalization can evaporate in a puff of smoke like the wildings of the 70's in NYC and other places can turn your nice condo and restaurant scene to shit real fast.

Nutter doesn't have a chance to solve this, but I bet that sadly most people will call for more street cameras and more stop-and-frisk.

Re:These are old-fashioned mob mobs (0)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008826)

"Nutter doesn't have a chance to solve this, but I bet that sadly most people will call for more street cameras and more stop-and-frisk."

Which would have helped in the wild NYC days. If you want to gentrify Somalia, you need to do better than conventional policing and use both peaceful and less-peaceful counterinsurgency methods including surveillance. 24/7 surveillance does pay in Iraq and Afghanistan, but takes more monitoring than that to which US police agencies are accustomed.

BTW one reason US crime rates are dropping quite nicely is we lock 'em up and throw away the key. They do no damage in prison, so stop releasing them.

same with Cleveland (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008166)

suburbs of cleveland, oh have done the exact same thing too (Cleveland heights and a couple of others)

Uh... (2)

DavidTC (10147) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008206)

...everyone is aware that's not what a 'flash mob' is, right?

There are law enforcement issues issues with 'flash mobs', specifically, they work very well as a pre-scheduled distraction for the police, and can even be used for help with escape.

At some point, I suspect that will happen, that some bank robber wearing a clown outfit will actually escape into a flash mob of clowns, and everyone participating in the flash mob will be charged as an 'attractive nuisance', which is legal speak for 'behaving so stupidly that you make the job of criminals easier', and this whole 'flash mob' thing will die out, or at least the anonymous ones.

However, thugs that know each other, coordinating an attack via text messages, is not a 'flash mob'.

Re:Uh... (4, Informative)

insertwackynamehere (891357) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008246)

In Philadelphia, a flash mob is literally a mob of disenfranchised, angry youth rioting violently for a short amount of time. They run through stores destroying things, they beat people up, they carjack people for a block, hundreds of these kids (if not pushing 1000 sometimes). They are quite literally flash riots.

Re:Uh... (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008844)

'attractive nuisance', which is legal speak for 'behaving so stupidly that you make the job of criminals easier

you don't seem to know what that word means, you are either clueless or just making shit up

an attractive nuisance is something that is dangerous and may be inviting for a potential victim to go check out, like a large pile of loose gravel at a construction site near a school

Misleading headline, pointless story. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008216)

Subby needs to learn what a flash mob is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_mob.

Also, this is news for nerds because why?

Re:Misleading headline, pointless story. (1)

insertwackynamehere (891357) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008284)

This is what a flash mob is in Philly. They are not flash mobs as they are in the rest of the world; it's a slang term for quick, violent riots generally involving minors

Re:Misleading headline, pointless story. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008988)

Also in other cities [foxnews.com] as well

not just flash mobs attacking, they are all BLACK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008250)

You know, democracy and political correctness are completely and fundamentally incompatible.

Democracy can only work if people are free to discuss the issues that are effecting them.

Such discussions need to include all the facts. Political correctness censors all facts that expose that the ideologies that the government is trying to impose upon everyone is incompatible with reality. All reality that proves that such ideologies are impossible, bad idea, are politically incorrect to mention. Censored.

Unlimited alien (genetically) immigration is one of those ideologies. Any facts that show that importing racial enemies is a bad idea are censored.

An interesting conflict of their stance comes out of their trying to suppress reality. They claim that the world is becoming over populated. They then only ever say the solution is for us to stop breeding. They never say to cut off immigration from nations which are irresponsible with their own breeding rate. In one speech they will say we need more immigration because our birth rate is too low. In another speech they will say that we have too many people, stop breeding, stop being so irresponsible.

Such conflicts of paradigm occur when you fight reality and truth in order to promote your ideology.

Local source (2)

shoehornjob (1632387) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008300)

Because the second link was a bit light on information and the NY Times still seems to think that dumbass John Street is still the mayor of Philadelphia I give you the local source. http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/126902753.html [philly.com] it really was a shame what they did to one of those guys but this is hardly a flash mob. What somone had a cell phone and all of a sudden it's "News for Nerds"? Please. I don't even live in Philadelphia (anymore) and I know it's not safe to walk around downtown at 10:00PM. Brotherly Love my ass.

Flash Mob? (1)

asdbffg (1902686) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008358)

It's not a flash mob unless at least 80 people participate in the mugging. txt me for details!!!!!

They should've just followed Apple's lead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008370)

And not allowed Flash to run on their platform.

Re:They should've just followed Apple's lead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008674)

And I'm all out of mod points

I'd like to take a minute, just sit right there.. (1)

Ross R. Smith (2225686) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008394)

I think their are just trying to curb the numbers of citizens from Philidelphia migrating to Bel Air to stay with their aunties and uncles.

Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (5, Informative)

The O Rly Factor (1977536) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008410)

As a Philadelphian, I can vouch that a flash mob in Philly is not the same thing as a flash mob that you see on AT&T advertising campaigns. While a flash mob may make you think of a bunch of people dancing in unison to some obscure pop culture reference in a large public area, a Philadelphia flash mob is a band of nearly feral minority teenagers whose parent wants to get their drink on and expels them for the night from their section 8 houses in North Philadelphia. They then flood down in droves to the Center City business district and Old City/South Street area, where they attack people at random.

I am sorry if that comes off as bitter and slightly racist. I was involved in one of these on South Street a few months ago...the fear you feel is absolutely indescribable when you realize that kids as young as 10 were raised in a way where they feel assaulting and robbing people at random is an acceptable Saturday night activity.

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (4, Insightful)

insertwackynamehere (891357) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008468)

I don't think it comes off as racist. Only on the internet, where racism has taken a meaning of pointing out problems within a certain community, would it be considered racism. Back in the real world, you pretty much described what a Philly flash mob is and likely what a good part of the reason is that they occur, specifically with poor black youth. It's not racist, it's a depressing reality: the majority of a flash mob (if not the entirety) is poor and black for a reason and not by chance. It's because of these issues that the black community in Philadelphia is dealing with: being raised by no one except some sociopath who was also raised by no one, to bash heads and snatch wallets.

The school system is falling apart meanwhile, we've got a string of terrible superintendents, teachers laid off, when I was in high school 5-9 years ago, there were schools known to be absolute hell holes (I went magnet, my neighborhood school would have probably led to my death) and even now some of these kids apparently were on their way to college but they decide to just participate in this violence? There is clearly something at work here, but that being said there is also no excuse for violence, none of the "white people deserve to get bashed" internet rage is appropriate, especially when most people posting it are white but super far removed from anything close to this because they live in some rich suburb in their parent's house and then act like white people in an urban environment are spoiled children for complaining about these sorts of things.

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008868)

>none of the "white people deserve to get bashed" internet rage is appropriate

Oh for God's sake. No one of note is saying this. Either you're falling for 4chan-style internet trolls, or you're falling for Fox News-style *quoting* of 4chan trolls. In either case, you're falling for BS. This is /. and you're supposed to be smarter than that.

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (1)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | more than 2 years ago | (#37009052)

Only on the internet, where racism has taken a meaning of pointing out problems within a certain community, would it be considered racism.

Well, no.

Actually, in many parts of the country this would be considered racist. It's not just an internet thing.

Though the tendency to see this sort of comment as intrinsically racist has gone down since Jesse Jackson made the comment about seeing a young mand approaching him at night, and being relieved when he realized the young man was white....

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (3, Informative)

LoRdTAW (99712) | more than 2 years ago | (#37009056)

...and even now some of these kids apparently were on their way to college but they decide to just participate in this violence?

Its part of growing up in the hood. You either fit in with the wolf pack or become prey. Many of those kids do want to get the fuck out of their situation but they have choice but to live with the rest of the dreck. So when a kid trying to be good is asked by his thug friend to go out, he goes and does whatever he can to fit in. Otherwise he will be called a pussy and get his ass beaten (or even killed) on a daily basis.

  I remember a mini spurt of wilding one day after school while walking to the bus station. I was walking down when one kid comes running across the street with a big chunk of concrete. I thought I was a goner but it turns out he hurled it through the back window of a parked mini van right in front of me. The group of youths he was with proceeded to cheer and smash a few other car windows on the block. Then they all took off running. This was in broad daylight in front of dozens of other school kids.

I always find that the first whites to call someone a racist are (as you said) far removed from inner city life. They never went to a high school (that was in a bad neighborhood) where they were the only white person in class. They never walked through a bad neighborhood to a friends house and get mugged at gun point by four black youths. They never witnessed a gang of eight youths beating one helpless kid to the point that he had to go to the hospital. Fuck those people.

I am white and I went through this kind of crap. I was mugged a few times on my way to school during my freshman year (all of the muggers were black teens). After that year, the muggings stopped only because I think the police presence was jacked up in that area. I reported every incident to the school, they work with the police on the report.

Growing up with no money and considered a boat anchor sized nuisance by your own parents (usually a single mother with 3+ kids) who turns you loose to get their fuck/crack/drink/whatever on does not produce well behaved members of society. They are literally wild animals. Never loved or taught right from wrong and never learned about consequences. They fear nothing. Some make it through that mess but they are few and far between.

If you want an idea of how bad it gets for poor minority youths, watch the TV show called "The First 48" (Its on A&E). Its a reality cop show based on a few homicide units in various cities. Most of the cases involve black youths and adults senselessly murdering one another over NOTHING. You see the shit conditions they live in and how their parents or lack thereof shaped their short and hellish lives. Its terrible.

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008558)

Death squads and race war are coming to the USA. Wake up white man!

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008582)

Well, it's not racist on its surface, but certainly a lot of racists will make the complaints you are. Perhaps with a bit more overtones of discrimination and disparagement than you have, but it is a fine line to walk.

The key will be to differentiate yourself from them. Suggest solutions, suggest involvement, don't just condemn. Even if you don't have any idea of what to do, at least say you support the idea of doing something productive and life-improving.

Then at least you'll be not keeping the bad company.

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008586)

To bad you couldn't just shoot them.

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008814)

Or lynch them.

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008646)

The 21st century is going to be one big survival contest, a war to see whether we move forward as a species, continue upward to the stars or degenerate into chaos. Whites *must* abandon their suicidal liberalism and insane tolerance if they want to survive as a culture and a race. Wake up white man!

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (2)

quickgold192 (1014925) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008682)

It wasn't racist until you apologized for being racist - you never actually mentioned race. However the assumption that "nearly feral minority teenagers" and "section 8 housing" refers to a specific race might be racist. (I live in the deep south, where white people are just as poor as minorities, so I imagined these flash mobs as white kids until you said otherwise.)

it's about class, not race (4, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008766)

the same things happen in other parts to the world, and it's not black kids doing it, it's poor kids doing it

the POVERTY is the issue, not the race

it's just revealing to me to see the right constantly falling into race based thinking, rather than class based thinking

it reveals the right doesn't understand the problems you create when you push social policies that create a large poor under class, rather than policies that support the growth of the middle class

the right pushes policies that makes people poor, and then they see poor people doing things because of their lame policies

and yet, they don't think "poor kids did this and that", they think "black kids did this and that"

very revealing

Re:it's about class, not race (0, Flamebait)

AlphaOmegaLeague (2115370) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008832)

STFU you PC moron. Everyone can see with their own eyes what the problem is; just look around the planet, add two and two and don't tell me it equals five. People don't buy this kind of Marxist thinking any more. It's becoming difficult to deny that the problems go deeper, and ultimate are partially genetic. Study the science, if you dare. The PC paradigm is a lie and a failure, and is rapidly losing its hold on the more intelligent among us.

Re:it's about class, not race (4, Interesting)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008970)

if i recall correctly, african americans were brought here as slaves, and have been excluded from fair economic participation, on a horrible scale, just up to 50 years ago, not to mention lingering prejudice, like yours. and i think you want to deny that history leaves lasting effects

you want to see race as the cause, when history, economics and class are clearly the cause. if you were intelligent, you would see this

it is always the dumbest losers who are racists. so, in one regard, i kind of agree with racist eugenics principles: improve the gene pool, but not by killing people based on skin color or religion, but instead kill people based on their support for racist policies. because there is no better way to identify a low iq person than to hear someone say something racist

in other words: if you kill all the racists, in any society in the world, the iq of society jumps massively

so what do you think about that modest proposal to improve the gene pool, scumbag?

(snicker)

Re:it's about class, not race (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37009054)

Go ahead and cull the population by IQ, I'm all for it. Unless you exterminate more than the bottom 99%, I'm quite safe. In fact I would encourage nerds with an interest in biology to pursue such a project. The 21st century is going to be quite shocking and horrific for those who cling to failed Marxist ideas. Inequality is real; Eugenics is good; war and conquest lead to progress. This is sometimes called the "Lucifer Principle", and it's going to be on display on a vast scale in this century. Sorry, but liberal ideology is totally bankrupt, and isn't going to survive much longer. Before we can build the Galactic Empire, we need to get our house in order down here on earth...

Re:it's about class, not race (0)

RightwingNutjob (1302813) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008980)

Sure. Let's get hung up on semantics. That's not a distraction at all. In fact, using different words will even change the facts on the ground!

Re:it's about class, not race (2)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 2 years ago | (#37009020)

the fact is that what you see is because of class. the lie is that it is because of race

proof: you can see the same phenomenon in any other city in the world. and it's always the poor people doing this. the constant is poverty, not race

of course, race and class often overlap. mainly because of the prejudiced policies of racists, and the historical lingering effects of the overt racist policies of the grandfathers of the racists

people on the right push social policies that mean a larger underclass of poor people. and when they see the inevitable effects of their policies, they, amazingly, see race as the cause

typical, and stupid

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008774)

This is not a Philly problem, this is a global problem. The UK has had feral humans like this for many years, we called them Chavs.

Society is failing to teach parents to be responsible, which is letting feral kids into the systems which disrupts educating everyone else. Until society steps up and starts taking care of the poor and helping them out of their situations, we're going to see increasing numbers of these type of people. There will always be terrible parents who let their kids run wild, but those kids can be taken care of by law enforcement, the thing society needs to do is encourage the kids around them to see them as the scum they are, not as a pack leader. As a kid everyone (yes, even you who will claim not to) followed some other kid to do something they shouldnt, be it vandalism or just stealing someone's toy for a few minutes, we have to understand this mentality and rescue kids from following the wrong role models.

We need to move beyond the 80s mentally of ME ME ME and move back to a Noblesse oblige society, where the ultra rich don't spend millions on shit they will never use and instead give back to the people and places they stepped on to get where they did. I'm sure many will cry foul and I'm talking liberal bollocks, but society is failing these people on a fundamental level, either they are living in slums and forming packs with other "dregs of society" or they are being neglected by their parents and need to be rehomed with someone more suitable to raising a child and neither of these things come for free and it's time for the super rich to come to terms with reality and not just their warped care free existance and 15 face lifts a week reality.

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (4, Interesting)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008914)

There is a reason that doesn't happen much in States where it is a reasonable presumption that many potential targets are armed.

The LA riots happened in LA because there was no serious armed opposition except for a very few armed citizens. The reason they didn't spread to the South (excepting a few minor incidents) is that citizens are ready and eager to waste anyone threatening their safety.

"when you realize that kids as young as 10 were raised in a way where they feel assaulting and robbing people at random is an acceptable Saturday night activity."

I wasn't raised to think that gunning them down is an inappropriate response. A child soldier in Africa can kill you as dead as an adult militiaman/woman.

None of this is new. This guy fought back and survived:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz [wikipedia.org]

Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008990)

In other parts of the country I've heard this kind of activity described as "strong arm robbery". From previous contexts I've always assumed this to mean being outnumbered and overpowered by a group. But when I Google the term I find that some people use this more generally to refer to any taking of property by force and intimidation, regardless of the number.

Arrest all Text Messengers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008412)

That is the same mentality that has America running down the road of bankrupcy Corporate Enslavement, Police state, TSA, Runaway laws, Lawyer Greed hysteria

That is stupid (1)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008498)

They should be banning private ownership of cellphones, which are obviously highly effective as terrorist weapons.

I like how 'youth' is code for black now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008506)

I guess African Americans was just too descriptive and racist. Youth is also ageist so perhaps it should be changed to 'people', yet perhaps that is too speciesist.

Problems... (4, Insightful)

MaWeiTao (908546) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008542)

We can talk about rights all we want, but the fact here is that what we're experiencing here is the criminal element stripping our rights away. Being unable to safely walk somewhere late at night constitutes a loss of freedom. The problem is that Americans are so used to this sort of garbage that they don't even see the problem. But I lived overseas where I could walk the streets at 3am without a care in the world. It wasn't that crime was non-existent but it didn't factor into normal routine. Sketchy neighborhoods were rare.

But the problem here is that American law enforcement is reactive, not proactive. The approach taken to crime is similar to how oppressive regimes keep sectarian conflict in check: oppression. I don't mean that Americans practice anything nearly that severe. What I mean is that they address problems with aggressive tactics; increased police presence, more arrests, etc. That only addresses the symptoms and once they're gone the problems return. And making matters worse is that this approach dehumanizes police offices, it turns them into this faceless force. They don't interact nearly enough with communities. They should patrol on foot, not in police cars.

However, the real problem are parents. Too many parents have abrogated their responsibilities. They don't care what their kids are doing, because if they did that kid wouldn't be out on the streets in the middle of the night. So, the responsibility ends up being foisted on the government. And what the government decides isn't always in the best interests of the citizens, especially when they're looking for quick results. Those quick results are effective over the current election cycle, but they never address the long term problems.

But the fact is the United States is suffering from serious cultural issues that perpetuates things like crime. Those need to be addressed properly, but honestly, I don't know see who could disagree with the benefits of enjoying safer streets, less vandalism, etc. But I suppose it's the tendency for Americans to want to stick it to the man, to the point of being irrational about it.

it's not an american problem (2)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008788)

it's a problem with poverty

the overseas places you are talking about are rich places. there are also rich places you can walk around at 3 am in the usa

go to the favelas in rio, the slums outside mumbai or manila or cairo or nairobi, and you tell me again criminals running roughshod over your rights is some sort of american phenomenon

ridiculous

Re:it's not an american problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008840)

It's a minority problem. There. I said it.

Re:it's not an american problem (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008908)

it's a class problem

the same problems you complain about happen in poor areas outside moscow too. there, right wing russian douchebags who think like yourself, also say it is a problem with minorities from the caucasus, etc

but there, as here, the people doing the complaining are the same people pushing policies that create large poor underclasses. that then do what the poor since the dawn of time have always done: lash out against the unfairness of their lot in life

and then the right wing, in any country, instead of seeing the obvious class results of their lame policies, sees race problems instead

typical

Re:it's not an american problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008898)

Learn to use capitalization and punctuation, moron.

Re:Problems... (0)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008952)

"But the fact is the United States is suffering from serious cultural issues that perpetuates things like crime."

If you point out those issues here, it usually gets an instant Troll mod.

Unnecessary cost (1)

Fjandr (66656) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008838)

Regardless of whether it would be effective at stopping crime, curfews are routinely struck down as unconstitutional. All this will do is cost the city of Philadelphia money in legal fees when it is inevitably challenged in court and struck down.

Local politicians rarely learn though.

Re:Unnecessary cost (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008968)

I've never heard of a curfew law being struck down as unconstitutional. While I agree with that sentiment, most major cities (and probably all the other ones) have them. Every city I've lived in does - Portland, Denver, San Francisco. Even in Seattle, where curfew laws were stated to be "unconstitutional", they were not struck down and are determined to be "permissible during times of demonstrated social evil" - whatever the fuck that means.

Basically "OH NO, ADULTS ARE SCARED OF TEH CHILDREN! PANIC!!!".

Wont be mobbing people when they get SHOT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37008912)

Self-defense! Carry a gun / knife / etc and fight back and when a couple of their friends start to die then they won't be attacking randoms anymore.

Curfew (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008938)

Most American cities have curfew laws, though it's hard for me to even remotely agree with having them. I fail to see how enforcing curfew laws will curtail mobs. What the mobs are doing is against the law and they don't care about that. What are the odds they're going to care about curfew? And since the entire underlying problem seems to be that police can't keep up with these insta-mobs, how are they going to keep up with these insta-curfew-violating-mobs?

And while we're at it - so what? The job of the police isn't to protect you from crime. It's to clean up afterward and MAYBE find the guilty party.

The problem isn't poverty (1)

boligmic (188232) | more than 2 years ago | (#37008982)

The problem is that no one takes any responsiblity - the liberal elite have pushed all these garbage social programs on us, claiming that this will fix the problem - and it hasn't. We OVERSPEND on stuff like this to fix poverty - and it doesn't fix the problem - you know why - ZERO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Giving people unearned government benefits is essentially giving them NOTHING - people don't view these benefits as a gift, they start to believe that someone owes them something for nothing - instead of getting a job and taking some responsibility for themselves, they throw temper tantrums and demand the fruit of someone elses neighbor. The people who have their earnings stolen from them under the guise of providing a benefit for society then do absolutely nothing else - in their mind they have done enough. What's worse is instead of beating the living shit out of the flash mob participants and then enforcing standards of normal societal behavior (you know - like telling a kid this isn't acceptable no matter if you are rich or poor - you will act correctly no matter what) - we then tell them it isn't their fault. But the Liberals will never admit this , and instead work for less personal responsiblity and more government power, turning citizens into subjects.

I'm 100% correct.

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