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119 comments

What he really means (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37022858)

is channel it for the greater "corporate good"

we long since passed the greater good he envisions and you can look at how we all are treated with caps and costs of the interenet

Re:What he really means (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023442)

The first things Anonymous needs to drop is the kneejerk anti-corporatism and the internet as free lunch memes.

I think that is the thing that relegates them to campus socialist drum circles, rather than world changers.

Re:What he really means (3, Interesting)

justforgetme (1814588) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023952)

what's wrong with anti-corporatism when the corporations you rally against the source of your pain?

Re:What he really means (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 2 years ago | (#37024158)

Are corporations really the source of their pain, or simply an outlet? I think a lot of their "pain" is teenage angst. The rallying might give them a sense of identity and some relief from boredom, but the world would be better off if these people put more energy towards creation than destruction.

Re:What he really means (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37026486)

Probably true since the vast majority of hackers who are not in it for the money (i.e.criminals and foreign agents) and should be shot, are introverted teenagers who, if they had the courage, would carry out another Columbine. The rest are adults who think and act like teenagers.

Re:What he really means (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37027624)

Are corporations really the source of their pain...?

I think on slashdot, this is assumed, correct or not. I don't know if it's just the vocal ones, but it seems everyone thinks most companies are inherently evil entities, out to get you in the worst ways conceivable.

What I see is that most of the ills cited turn out to be incompetence, not malice. But that's not terribly exciting I guess.

Re:What he really means (2)

somersault (912633) | more than 2 years ago | (#37024198)

Note that I do agree with some of the stuff they have done, and I think it's important for corporations to be more conscientious about data security. But not everything Anonymous does is noble or beneficial to society as a whole.

Re:What he really means (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023908)

Rub ben gay on your balls.

First post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37022860)

I am superspeed Anon with the power of first posting! ANONYMOUS HEROES UNITE!

Re:First post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37022904)

Except for the part where you failed and got second :V

Anonymous is too busy (4, Funny)

DoktorSeven (628331) | more than 2 years ago | (#37022866)

Anonymous won't do anything productive. They're too busy trying to get doubles.

Re:Anonymous is too busy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37022952)

Not your personal army.

Re:Anonymous is too busy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023016)

Anonymous won't do anything productive. They're too busy trying to get doubles.

you just rolled dubs bro

Re:Anonymous is too busy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023066)

The funny part is your post actually got doubles.

Re:Anonymous is too busy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023194)

dubs, dubs everywhere

Re:Anonymous is too busy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023200)

No, the funny part is that all the morons like yourself come out of the woodwork so easily.

Re:Anonymous is too busy (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023286)

Where do you live that they normally hide in the woods? Around these parts they don't even bother!

Re:Anonymous is too busy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37025650)

>>37023200 Dubs again bro!

Re:Anonymous is too busy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023222)

doubles!

Re:Anonymous is too busy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023494)

You got triples! OH SHI-

Sigh, more buzzwords (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37022944)

I just tuned out after reading "hacktivism".

Re:Sigh, more buzzwords (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023010)

Sounds sexier than "petty vandalism"

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37022970)

Will try to keep it short to please the tl;dr crowd.

Whatever they are discussing, it is not Anonymous, the good old "Internet Hating Machine". Wikipedia is defining it as "(...) a group initiating active civil disobedience and spread through the Internet while staying hidden, originating in 2003 on the imageboard 4chan" but it couldn't be farther from the truth.

Check the origins and the unofficial mottos of Anonymous. "Doing it for the lulz", "Because none of us is as cruel as all of us".

Trying to pass anonymous a dark side vigilant group, a collective of Batmans fighting for justice in the shadows is part of the mythology some of these misfit teenagers would like to believe. In reality, the only thing the so called "Anonymous" is capable to do on its own volition is to troll camwhores on Omegle and to ruin teenagers lifes.

All the rest of the stuff that is pinned on them can be divided in two opposite movements:
1. Highly capable individuals, cloaking themselves in the unwashed masses
2. Naive and idealist youngsters in need of a banner to follow.

The first group is responsible for most of the high profile hacks you see, Sony being the most visible example.

The second group is responsible for all the PR you see going around, and the most likely to go down when it finally hits the fan. They would be on Greenpeace, PETA or any other of these protesting groups but choose Anonymous because it doesn't require socialization.

tl;dr: there is such thing as Anonymous, but it is not doing what people are pinning on them. There are hackers wreaking havoc and blaming it on them, and there are naive idealists pretending to be internet superheroes. The real original Anonymous is still busy hacking facebook accounts and tracking down camwhores based on the EXIF of their pictures.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023062)

Or to sum it up, newfags are a cancer. Problem is, things move on. It seems long are the days of hating on furries, trolling Second Life and AIDS in the pool. If it originated from and and now forms the majority of "Anonymous", can we really say that they aren't the 'true Anonymous' we remember? A city might be different from today 50 years ago, but it's still the same city if you get what I mean.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (2, Interesting)

schnikies79 (788746) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023104)

People that use the word "newfags" are a cancer. The 4chan crowd is a cancer.

The internet is worse off thanks to "Anonymous".

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023174)

I agree. Don't use the word "newfags". That's so gay.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023764)

Newfag is genius. Fuck you both. Go make some newfag porn fuckers

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (3, Insightful)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023336)

It's like some freak kind of retard-lensing. The area where constructive interference of the Eternal September is at peak value.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023358)

People that use the word "newfags" are a cancer. The 4chan crowd is a cancer.

The internet is worse off thanks to "Anonymous".

CANCER is Cancer. People who throw around the word "Cancer" are idiots.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023644)

cancer
noun/kansr/
cancers, plural

1) The disease caused by an uncontrolled division of abnormal cells in a part of the body
2) A malignant growth or tumor resulting from such a division of cells
3) A practice or phenomenon perceived to be evil or destructive and hard to contain or eradicate

See point 3. It's a perfectly cromulent use of the term. People who attempt to play grammar Nazi but are actually just ranting against their own pet peeves are a cancer.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023428)

Ugh, everyone is an idiot. Parent is using Anonymous parlance [urbandictionary.com] for crying out loud. Who gives a shit about semantics.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (1)

bipbop (1144919) | more than 2 years ago | (#37024180)

Yes, but the point is, you have to be an asshole or a moron to do so.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023548)

newfag [urbandictionary.com] is Anonymous slang for newbie, probably being used sarcastically in this context. If you actually read the comment it's defending them from the old timers anyway but you've already established you're an idiot so that's probably out of your league.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023244)

tl;dr

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (1)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023524)

No true Scotsman, eh Anon?

This is sort of like complaining that there are no 'real' Democrats now that the Democratic Party no longer supports slavery or the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Being able to critically evaluate and improve the purpose of both individuals and groups is one of the most fundamental drives that has improved the quality of human lives and is the motivating force of civilization itself. So yeah, I don't have any sympathy for all the butthurt oldfags that are all made because Anonymous has changed. By any measure the change has been a good one, and no rational person would oppose the continuation of good changes on the grounds that it simply offends somebody's personal definitions.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (1)

sigxcpu (456479) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023850)

dude, I think your confusing "anonymous" with "anonymous coward"

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37024206)

See, people like sigxcpu are already converted. Because people will believe every shit, if it's repeated often enough.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37025168)

Sounds like you missed that one thing with the old veteran and his birthday back when anonymous was still small, cute and not world news: [news]).

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37025326)

lmao

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37025332)

Anonymous evolves according to the people comprising it, as long as you agree on the fundamental idea, you are Anonymous. This is not something a newfag dreamed up, it was there from the beginning, so suck it.

Hivemind, look it up in a dictionary and learn how it works. Anonymous is not a static entity, it's the collective consciousness of the Internet, reacting to the information of the world flowing through it.

Re:Posting anonymously for obvious reasons (1)

bughunter (10093) | more than 2 years ago | (#37026056)

They would be on Greenpeace, PETA or any other of these protesting groups but choose Anonymous because it doesn't require getting shot at by Russian Whalers while freezing your ass off in the bow of a 12' Zodiac bouncing around in the Bering Sea, or having CS sprayed directly into your mouth while chained to the gate of a meatpacking factory in the blazing Texas heat.

As much as I dislike the "FTFY" method of replying, in this case it seemed to work... One can perform "hacktivism" in one's jammies while munching on a mound of Pizza Rolls.

I guess I don't belong. (5, Insightful)

BitwiseX (300405) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023196)

"If you leave Anonymous because you don't agree with something it did, then you don't belong in Anonymous," Housch says.

The problem with Anonymous being so unstructured, (which isn't a bad idea) is that anybody can do anything under that brand. As much as I like the thought and the idea of Anonymous, when they attack innocents I can't be associated with them. That's off target. Oh, they don't attack innocents you say? Well you look at those massive password dumps and tell me that all those folks are "wrong doers". I guarantee that MOST of those users are regular Joes (possibly even members of Anon!) who are just trying to make a pay check. Guilty by association doesn't work for entire corporations from top to bottom. Hell, I saw a mySQL dump of passwords for a nudist colony tweeted by Anonymous. Really? A corrupt nudist colony? When you're THAT off target, that's the kind of BS that's going to be used against you. "Chaotic" is the perfect description of Anonymous, and I don't see how it will be anything but. It's unfortunate.

This is why I don't call myself a member of Anonymous, and don't see myself being a "member" anytime soon. Good messages, poor execution.

Re:I guess I don't belong. (2)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023836)

well, anonymous is just anonymous.

it's not like you can blame one anon coward on slashdot for something that another anon coward contributes to the thread.

but it's essential for how slashdot differs from many tech blogs to have that "post as anonymous" possibility - simply because then you get more possibility for truth that's logical on it's own.

if you want to put it into context of the old copy-scene.. sure, there were few groups which distributed warez effectively - BUT the majority of (illegal)sw copying happened within the masses of regular computer users, so widely that you couldn't really stop it even if you tried.

Re:I guess I don't belong. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37024204)

You are not a member of Anonymous because you do not think like Anonymous. Lets look at those massive password dumps, would you rather have your password posted publicly so you can see it and change it, or would you rather Anonymous have kept the DB to themselves (as the majority of hackers do.) See the thing is, by publicly posting their hacks Anonymous is foiling the hacks of better more hidden hackers. If an anon can get your password you can be sure that some other hacker probably already has it.

Re:I guess I don't belong. (1)

Martin Blank (154261) | more than 2 years ago | (#37025180)

And how many people are going to go looking for their accounts and passwords? Wouldn't it be better to contact the site owners to point out the issue and have them deal with fixing the bad passwords by changing them and/or alerting the users that there is a potential problem? If they at least did that and allowed a reasonable time to fix (where reasonable is not a matter of a few hours or even a few days), they'd get a much better image. I know a number of security professionals who see them as no more than children with dangerous weapons, little different from the script-kiddies of old except that the tools are now both easier to use and more powerful. A copy of Backtrack and a few YouTube videos can lead to just about anyone getting into a system if enough systems are scanned (and "enough" doesn't even need to be that many).

Re:I guess I don't belong. (1)

horza (87255) | more than 2 years ago | (#37026664)

where reasonable is not a matter of a few hours or even a few days

A few hours might be pushing it, but a few days is reasonable to plug a gaping security hole that compromises all your users and can enable the identity theft of up to millions of users. As for wouldn't it be better to contact the site owners, didn't they warn in advance last time that they would be dumping the database of passwords? (was it NASA?) I would say it is fair to assume that if Anon have it, then more shady characters will already have had it for a while. If it's dumped publically, it shouldn't be hard to write a script that emails each person to warn them their account has been compromised, assuming some joker hasn't gone in there first and reset the password. I agree with the general thrust of your argument but I don't see it quite as black and white since we don't know that they weren't warned and just couldn't be bothered to fix it.

Phillip.

Re:I guess I don't belong. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37024546)

"Chaotic" is the perfect description of Anonymous

The real question then is whether they are chaotic good or chaotic evil

Re:I guess I don't belong. (1)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 2 years ago | (#37025630)

Chaotic Neutral. Chaotic Good or Chaotic Evil would imply an agenda beyond luls.

Re:I guess I don't belong. (1)

MWoody (222806) | more than 2 years ago | (#37026328)

"For the lulz."

I.e. they do things specifically because it amuses them, regardless of the damage it causes. That's pretty clearly not good, and I'd say it goes well past neutral and down into chaotic evil territory.

The idea of Anonymous as a brand is stupid (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37024834)

The idea of Anonymous as a brand is stupid to begin with as anyone can use it champion whatever cause they want. If they can find enough other people to go along with it, it might pick up some steam and get something done. Otherwise it just fades into obscurity. For everything that's been done under the Anonymous banner, there's probably only a small overlap in participants. The people who went after the Scientologists probably aren't the same as the ones that defaced some Facebook page or hacked into some company's website. Trying to ascribe any attributes to such a group is utterly pointless.

The beautiful part is that if idiots in law enforcement try to treat it as a group, they end up watching and looking at a lot of individuals who are unlikely to participate in any one event. The information that they have on some kid who made crank calls to a grieving family isn't any good if they're looking for people who were behind the DDOS of some organization. Hiding in the sea of Anonymous makes it harder to be found and makes any efforts to determine what exactly you've done a lot harder.

Re:I guess I don't belong. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37025566)

Well you look at those massive password dumps and tell me that all those folks are "wrong doers". I guarantee that MOST of those users are regular Joes (possibly even members of Anon!) who are just trying to make a pay check.

There is a saying around here; Vote with your wallet.

All those folks used their wallets to actively supported Sony, a company that has done much evil including spreading malware.
Every single one of them are "wrong doers" and deserves what they got.

Re:I guess I don't belong. (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 2 years ago | (#37027014)

Hell, I saw a mySQL dump of passwords for a nudist colony tweeted by Anonymous. Really? A corrupt nudist colony?

A Slashdot nudist colony... now THAT would be corrupt.

Well (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023220)

Post ending in 99 determines what anon should do.

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37025322)

post ponies.

A bunch of newfags (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023226)

Anon does it for the lulz. Doing things for the greater good? Fucking moralfags.

The damage has already been done... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023262)

Latest story on El Reg: "Anonymous and LulzSec spew out largest ever police data dump, see the actual article here [theregister.co.uk].

This wouldn't be so upsetting if they didn't include lots of personal information in there; creditcard data, bank accounts, residential info. All about police officers who happen to work at an agency which apparently has hired unskilled IT staff. Still; the only thing this move does is damage and risk the safety of said police officers (how many for example are working undercover?).

SO puhlease spare me your self-rightous bull about "for the greater good". That's the same kind of crap which the cooperation's and governments targeted by anonymous and co used themselves.

If only these kiddiots would get it into their thick skulls that the ends don't justify the means then we'd be getting somewhere. But I think its going to take a long while before we'll ever reach that point.

Dear Anonymous/LulzSec/AntiSec (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023726)

Leave police, AND other agencies of law enforcement, alone. You're going to piss them off first of all, a dumb move in & of itself... and, they're NOT THE "BAD GUYS"!!!

What Anonymous/LulzSec/AntiSec & others like they OUGHT TO DO, is email the "ill-setup" agencies with the problem/vulnerability (yes, there are ways to do that anonymously for the MOST part, especially if done with good intentions)!

(Just as one of them did with NHS (warning their admin passwords were exposed but not taking advantage of it), so the law enforcement folks could fix it).

Attacking/insulting/embarassing law enforcement though? Damn lame... those guys HELP STOP CRIME for Pete's sake...!!!

* Yes, there is law enforcement corruption. I won't say there isn't...

However - Is it the majority of their people? No, I doubt it.

(Most policemen are helpful guys just trying to do their jobs... I say quit "f'ing with them" Anonymous/LulzSec, & DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, as you did with NHS instead!)

Without police people... we'd have UTTER CHAOS, nobody to enforce the "social contracts" we hold with one another in societies... & people, sadly, respond BEST to the "threat of force" or other harm, best (how damn sad, but true). Police are sort of the glue, along with the "normal folks" & courts, that tend to hold society in check from chaos after all...

APK

P.S.=> Now, I know that these LulzSec/AntiSec/Anonymous folks aren't "all bad", & are doing 1 good thing: EXPOSING WHAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED... but, doing it to the guys that help fix things in terms of crime MOSTLY? Wrong thing to do, & bad move period - imo @ least!

... apk

Re:Dear Anonymous/LulzSec/AntiSec (2)

justforgetme (1814588) | more than 2 years ago | (#37024368)

Quite valid points.

I disagree with all of them :-)

And no, this is not a joke. The simple fact of the matter is that the glacial speed of evolution in goverments, their agencies and multinational monetary institutions has left them way behind from an administrative point of view. In a state in which they cannot anymore supervise their own mass and activities and because of the internal mechanisms that link them all together they turn to solutions too inefficient from their inception on. These choices that are being made and have been being made since the end of WW1 are leading everyone into the same vicious cycle of approving more and more inefficient countermeasures that end up inflating them even more and perpetuating the problem.

Nature millenia ago developed a very good mechanism to take care of such mishaps, it's called SPECIATION [wikipedia.org] and surprisingly it is the only one behavior our economic society has to copy from nature.

So: Sorry but everything you said is irrelevant

Re:Dear Anonymous/LulzSec/AntiSec (1)

blackest_k (761565) | more than 2 years ago | (#37024930)

When you see huge numbers of police acting in complete disregard of the law and beating the crap out of people it becomes a bit of a leap to accept it isn't the majority that acts this way.

Yes I accept that 99% of the time police officers do act quite reasonably but that doesn't make them the good guys either.

The media missed the Anonymous Cyber War (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023306)

The presentation on Sat night was the better presentation. It was not on the schedule. It was arranged at the last minute and went off in Track 4. It was recorded so you can see it

Background... Backtrace Security doxed Anitsec (Anony/Lulz) leadership. The presentation ended with a real panel of speakers from both sides discussing the movement and the implications.

Check out the tweets from that night (1900-2030).

Anon (4, Interesting)

mfh (56) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023338)

Isn't Anonymous kind of synonymous with progressive anarchy? Here are ten things Anonymous could do if they wanted to really be recognized as a positive force for all of humanity:

1. Develop a manner where a person could support themselves legitimately anywhere in the world. (ie: generate legit income from fair labour)

2. Develop a manner where a person could know what organizations to support and which to avoid.

3. Help inform people about what they do that is positive.

4. Cultivate talent.

5. Grow numbers.

6. Maintain their own security.

7. Shun asshats.

8. Give and get some lulz that are positive. Remember sometimes the lulz are funny

9. Create some technologies and give them away to the planet.

10. Develop a future for Anonymous. What is Anonymous in 20yrs? Is it still an underground group of loosely affiliated people? Is it every human being on the planet? What are the goals of this group? What should the goals be? What shouldn't the goals be?

Re:Anon (1)

said213 (72685) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023668)

It isn't a "group."

You comment as though a collection of random interests have a unified voice by default.
Anarchy without leadership is best described as free will.
Hacking without leadership is being described as Anonymous.

Motivation, resources and results may be similar, but no one is telling these people what to do beyond providing a bit of inspiration and a loose sense of solidarity... and even though some might try to guide or shape or direct things, it seems clear that there is no one involved is listening.

A collective need not be united to net results which are compatible with the desires of the individual.

Re:Anon (1)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 2 years ago | (#37027538)

Anonymous isn't leaderless, I wish people would stop pushing this myth.

Re:Anon (1)

said213 (72685) | more than 2 years ago | (#37027668)

Unless you're claiming to be the leader or are offering to cite clear proof, your baseless factisms are no more valid than any others.

I will say, however, that pretending that there is a leader to these utterly random, yet similarly themed, incidents of opportunism makes about as much sense as claiming that schoolyard bullies are unionized.

Re:Anon (1)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 2 years ago | (#37027730)

Go and spend some time in anonops IRC. Then you'll know how foolish it is to suggest that there is no leadership in place.

Re:Anon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37024064)

About your 10 suggestions for Anonymous... Quite frankly, it's not that kind of an organization.

2. Develop a manner where a person could know what organizations to support and which to avoid.

The thing is, this is mostly picked at random. The only reason they protested Scientology is because of a Tom Cruise video being taken down. It degenerated into the gatherings in front of Scientology buildings, which was a flimsy excuse for many to just find other people like them out there and waste a bit of time. It was a disorganized mob dressed up holding signs with internet memes nobody cared about.

Someone motivated against Scientology noticed the whole Tom Cruise fiasco and used all those kids to get those protests going. And that's where the modern day "Anonymous" (the hacker group) comes from. Bored kids looking for ideologies and wanting to belong to something, and easy to manipulate into doing something. Someone paid close attention to what the guy did to motivate them to protest ("stickin' it to the man"), and put a lot of kids to good use for their own activities.

3. Help inform people about what they do that is positive.

Except they hardly ever do something that is to be considered positive. The whole Sony fiasco wasn't positive. It was just another sign that people are lax with security, which isn't a big surprise. The whole deal of supporting Wikileaks (aka "Let's DDoS Amazon and Paypal") was hardly positive. The few times they've done something positive is to uncover the identity of someone who was abusing animals.

7. Shun asshats.

Due to the nature of anonymous, they're subject to the greater internet fuckwad theory [penny-arcade.com]. Even if they were to shun asshats from their "ranks", they're such a loosely organized group of people that anyone can basically claim to be "Anonymous" and they wouldn't have a way to claim otherwise.

10. Develop a future for Anonymous. What is Anonymous in 20yrs?

Working for the very man that they were stickin' it to, hopefully not with a criminal record.

Don't get me wrong, I can to a certain point agree with some of the things they've done. And I can understand that these kids are looking for something that gives them a sense of stickin' it to the man, we've all been there... But I think that they're too easily controlled by external forces and probably due to their average age don't think through about the consequences. I also think that many of the reactions about "Anonymous" have been way out of proportion.

But in all honesty, there are far more notable problems in the world than what these kids are usually making a fuss about, or probably even aware about.

Re:Anon (2)

mfh (56) | more than 2 years ago | (#37024588)

But in all honesty, there are far more notable problems in the world than what these kids are usually making a fuss about, or probably even aware about.

Like how the fuck we're supposed to stop an asteroid from slamming into our planet when all of our resources are going to global oil wars, diverted away from space exploration and preparation against world-ending events?

The oil wars are world-ending events themselves. We have the technology now to power cars in a way that won't cost us a dime. We have the technology now to power entire cities without ever having to lift a finger. Solar energy is the way to do it, but you can't operate a solar power station with a bunch of fucking anarchists running around fucking shit up.

I mean if you look up at the sky and see the vast resources out there, you kinda just have to ask what the fuck we're doing here with this narrow minded anti-purpose.

What is the balance between Anonymous and the Fascists, and is that perhaps a better solution? Can there be a balance between anarchy and fascism?

Here is why I like Anonymous. I like the way they can latch onto something and tear it apart, and that 2/3 times the thing they are tearing down is some Fascist organization. The reason Anon attacked Scientology is because they are Fascists, not because of Tom Cruise.

I think Fascist organizations in general are bad, so I like Anonymous for this purpose, but I don't see anyone contributing to making the world better, I just see that these guys are good at destroying things and destroying people and that's not positive. There aren't many other effective things a group of hackers can do except disrupt the fascist agenda. So when the fascist agenda is tied closely to the American economy, which it is, we see S&P downgrading the US credit score again. This downgrade is a direct result of efforts of the fascists to forcing the US towards a global police state situation. It's exactly what they want.

I recommend SLC Punk! [imdb.com] because it does kind of touch on some of the early ideas about what Anonymous wants to be as a whole, but why it can't be that because it can't be anything if it's not developed as anti-structure and that the whole idea of a structured or purposed Anonymous is one that is Fascist itself.

Re:Anon (1)

said213 (72685) | more than 2 years ago | (#37025490)

"Like... Asteroid.. Wars... Space Exploration... World ending... Technology... Solar power station... Fascists"

Between the ancient memes and the UID which predates the term "meme," I would like to see you rephrase your post to more closely match modern convention regarding complaining about such things... "Get off my lawn!"

(FUDdy duddy!)

Re:Anon (1)

mfh (56) | more than 2 years ago | (#37025572)

This is exactly what I meant. I love how you **understand** me!

Now can you please, just stand on the side-walk. That's why we made side-walks you know, so people wouldn't stand on lawns.

Re:Anon (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37024886)

Progressive Anarchy? Possibly, but really everything I've seen so far regarding the Anonymous movement seems to indicate that they're the left's equivalent of the Tea Party. Only difference being that the political left has all but been entirely marginalized and shut out of policy discussions while the hardcore right now has a bit of a choke hold on government, as the default fiasco showed.

Anonymous is supposed to be an idea, a "feeling" and not a centralized movement. It's the crystallized form of the political dissent built up on the left from being progressively shut out of the discussion and debate about the future of the world. More and more government is tending towards the authoritarian, and more and more we have loud cockbacks of frothing fecal matter like Santorum who are trying to turn back the clock and send us into a new dark age of human social interaction.

Just like piracy is considered an economic metric of complete market failure of pricing in a given area (if people pirate, obviously your goods are too expensive for people to care to buy them) I think this kind of hacktivism is a sign of political failure to address the concerns of the people. When people feel shut out, when people feel violated, and when they feel like they have nothing to lose, they fight back. Sony is a great example of this. There efforts to squelch anyone with the PS3 keys, which each PS3 owner has a right to own seeing as it's embedded in THEIR console.

Sony is not vulnerable legally, nobody has the cash or the time to take on a giant. Connectix/Bleem showed even if you were more than willing they would drag the case out so as to leave the poor plaintiffs in financial ruin despite winning the case. In this case it finally became too much, and the powerless struck back against Sony, hurting them the only way they knew how, their pocketbooks. Sony has now suffered millions of dollars in damage and possibly more depending on how some of their legal business with insurers fairs.

They have now seen that they are no longer untouchable, that there is a price to pay for certain actions, and that there are some problems that no amount of money can make go away. I agree very much with the rest of the above though. Right now is always the most important time in history to start changing for the better. Anonymous is all of our collective psyche, a giant ocean of Lulz with which we sail on and we are all but waves upon that ocean. No single wave changes the motion of the ocean, but if enough work together they form a Tsunami, and we all know what those can do in the right places.

So if Anonymous is simply decentralized social/political/economic rage, it must crystallize into something much more coherent and focused if it is to survive. This can happen if enough people decide to make some very public, high profile actions and set the overall tone of Anonymous in the above manner you describe. It must take a page from the only other type of decentralized mass movement: Standalone Complex.

We are all individual pieces acting together for the same ideal, find a part to play, or get out of the way.

Re:Anon (1)

mfh (56) | more than 2 years ago | (#37025158)

Chaos cannot crystallize, so therefore chaos dissipates. Seriously watch SLC Punk! and you'll see what I mean. The guy figures it out. It's all bullshit.

Re:Anon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37025892)

This sounds a little too heartfelt for the Internet I know...

Nevertheless, thanks for a tidy little post. Fuck the corporate apologists... There's a lot of slippery-slope arguments that drive Anon and their sympathizers regarding security, anonymity, privacy, free speech... the flaw in them is that we're already at the bottom of the slope. Anything the corporate-owned government or the master-oligarchs can do to you (the "people") they have already done...

If you're being raped, nobody's gonna blame you for getting a nut shot in; the consequences are the same whether or not you hit your target, but at least you can have the satisfaction of trying to resist...

Re:Anon (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 2 years ago | (#37027038)

Progressive Anarchy? Possibly, but really everything I've seen so far regarding the Anonymous movement seems to indicate that they're the left's equivalent of the Tea Party.

The members of the various tea party groups are, on the whole, known. They also don't do anything illegal in the name of the group. Bizarro tea party, maybe.

Re:Anon (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 2 years ago | (#37027050)

Oh wait, I missed this:

loud cockbacks of frothing fecal matter like Santorum

You're losing your mind over Santorum? I rescind my reasoned reply to your trollish post, you stupid douche.

Re:Anon (1)

symes (835608) | more than 2 years ago | (#37025520)

You are asking a paranoid bunch of very high performing individuals to cooperate with one another and write a mission statement. I like the idea... but... er... oh look, shiny things!

Re:Anon (1)

rwv (1636355) | more than 2 years ago | (#37025956)

1. Develop a manner where a person could support themselves legitimately anywhere in the world. (ie: generate legit income from fair labour)
2. Develop a manner where a person could know what organizations to support and which to avoid.
3. Help inform people about what they do that is positive.
4. Cultivate talent.
5. Grow numbers.
6. Maintain their own security.
7. Shun asshats.
8. Give and get some lulz that are positive. Remember sometimes the lulz are funny.
9. Create some technologies and give them away to the planet.
10. Develop a future for Anonymous. What is Anonymous in 20yrs? Is it still an underground group of loosely affiliated people? Is it every human being on the planet? What are the goals of this group? What should the goals be? What shouldn't the goals be?

1. This currently falls under the jurisdiction of education / apprenticeship / schools. There are too many varied industries that any advise you get from a single one of them is going to end up being terribly biased.
2. http://www.charitynavigator.com [charitynavigator.org].
3. Anonymous has carried a good track record of punishing groups who sorta deserve it. That's a good thing, to me.
4-7. Gonna skip these b/c they are too general.
8. Practical jokes are actually really hard to pull off without causing damage... so this would indeed be something to see.
9. LOIC [sourceforge.net] ?
10. I think the goal is that Anonymous will only exist if it has to. The end goal is for the organization to not need to exist 20 years from now.

Members of Anon... (2)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023388)

How do you know they were members? Did they produce membership cards?

Re:Members of Anon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023514)

The smell.

Re:Members of Anon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37024394)

THIS

Anonymous -> not a group, can be anyone
Anonymous people -> everyone who hasn't been identified

As far as I understand the english language, there IS a distinction and it's relevant. I'm baffled that quite many native english speakers fail to comprehend this.

Re:Members of Anon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37024748)

Of course. Every Anonymous member is given an official membership card which consists of a standard business-card-sized piece of cardstock paper with their membership information stamped on it -- i.e. completely blank.

Identifying yourself as Anonymous at fedcon? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023450)

Ballsy. Or stupid. Or both.

An HBGary email that should concern all (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023542)

This really bothered me, don't know about the rest of you:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED:-The-HB-Gary-Email-That-Should-Concern-Us-All [dailykos.com]

PERTINENT QUOTES/EXCERPTS:

"According to an embedded MS Word document found in one of the HBGary emails, it involves creating an army of sockpuppets, with sophisticated "persona management" software that allows a small team of only a few people to appear to be many, while keeping the personas from accidentally cross-contaminating each other. Then, to top it off, the team can actually automate some functions so one persona can appear to be an entire Brooks Brothers riot online... And all of this is for the purposes of infiltration, data mining, and (here's the one that really worries me) ganging up on bloggers, commenters and otherwise "real" people to smear enemies and distort the truth... "

and

"They are talking about creating the illusion of consensus. And consensus is a powerful persuader... And another thing, this is just one little company of assholes. I can't believe there aren't others doing this already. From oil companies, political campaigns, PR firms, you name it. Public opinion means big bucks. And let's face it, what these guys are talking about is easy."

and

"To the extent that the propaganda technique known as "Bandwagon" is an effective form of persuasion, which it definitely is, the ability for a few people to infiltrate a blog or social media site and appear to be many people, all taking one position in a debate, all agreeing, for example, that so and so is not credible, or a crook, is an incredibly powerful weapon."

---

* I'd suggest reading the whole article in the link I put up above & not only because of the quotes I pulled from it to get your attention here, but also because it largely BACKS THE FACT THAT EVEN PSEUDONYMS DON'T MATTER, because they're easy to create via alternate email accounts, TOR endpoint proxies usage, OR anonymous proxy server usage on the part of those seeking to be "many from 1"!

(Yes, I'd read that folks - because it MAY ADVERSELY AFFECT YOU ONE DAY ALSO & be "levelled against you" (I hope not)... & I KNOW I've had it happen to me, here, & others spots online (I busted clone52431/clone53421 & others doing it in fact, the "trolltalk.com" pack of admitted trolls around here in fact & years ago from arstechnica people @ Windows IT Pro -> http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/internals-and-architecture/the-memory-optimization-hoax#feedbackAnchor [windowsitpro.com] (Jeremy Reimer mainly))).

APK

P.S.=> That's for anyone that tries to say I am "full of it", etc./et al - though I know that most of you KNOW this type of crap really does go on online, & how/when/where/why IF NOT BY WHOM as well as why...

... apk

I Keep Asking This... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023628)

I keep asking this question but I've yet to see a real answer besides OMG EVIL USA GOVERNMENT:

Why is Anon not targetting more countries that are less free than NATO? You can still be executed in China for dissention and Anon might even actually have enough manpower to make a dent in the Iranian government network, but Anon keeps targetting these dumbshit US corporations that have AT BEST restricted documents(restricted documents being below classified but more sensitive than Unclassified/FOUO). These attacks haven't proven shit and are a waste of everyone's time.

I realize that a lot of Anon is just doing it "for the lulz" or whatever but there has been a lot of attempts to reconcile their attacks with actual justification and it always sounds weak as shit compared to what is going on in Iran or China.

Hmmmm.the "greater good"... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37023762)

hmmm...hmmmm...greater good...greater good....this implies doing good....! Whup! Something this bunch does not do! Better come up with a better definition! This bunch and good do not fit in the same sentence.

Follow Facebook and Google+ (1)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#37023860)

As the widom of Facebook and Google+ will tell you people are more likely to do good when they reveal their real names. Therefore, I theorise hactivists would be more likely to do good in their hacking if they used their real names!

"Star"?? (3, Informative)

sunderland56 (621843) | more than 2 years ago | (#37024304)

On what basis is Aaron Barr a "star" anywhere, much less a conference about computer security??

When your (former) company is the poster child for how not to do security [arstechnica.com], I would think your main reason for showing up at DefCon would be if you wanted to be publicly humiliated.

Re:"Star"?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37026460)

I was just going to say that. I gathered he was a bit of a paraiah in the security community to some extent.

this is about regulation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37025142)

like when blueshirt police leaves one group in the city to deal drugs so at least they know where it comes from and what it is (in my sometimes less than humble opinion). I hope they don't fall for it

Name it something else. That would be step 1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37026728)

Don't use the name Anonymous. Cease and Desist already.

The Joe's on the street confuse the Group 'Anonymous' with the evil 'Anonymous' posters that are cyberbulling.

Playing right into Zuckerberg's hands of banning all 'Anonymous' posting.

"Ya I heard something about that 'Anonymous" says Joe Normal.

  Besides. You can't patent an English word. Everyone knows this.

How are you going to build a brand that way? You can't.

Try this out: http://www.bandnamemaker.com/generator/

        Bushy Sax
        Corrosion Of The Tendril
        Galvanized Ladies And The Crafty Skater
        Monochrome Defiance
        Monday Pad
        Determined Arena
        Post-modern Igloo And The Camelot
        Mainstream Look-alike
        Timely Duff
        Ambush Before Rap
        Resistance Team
        Mineral Of The Exercise
        Late Thorax And The Forgotten Database

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