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The London Riots and Facial Recognition Technology

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the digital-mobs-fighting-real-mobs dept.

Crime 482

nonprofiteer writes "A bunch of vigilantes are organizing a Google Group dedicated to using recently revealed facial recognition tools to identify looters in the London riots. While Vancouver discussed doing something similar after the Stanley Cup riots, the city never actually moved forward on it. Ring of Steel London, though, is far more likely to incorporate FRT into its investigative work." A related article points out how development of face-recognition technology has been kept under wraps by some organizations, but we're getting to the point where it'll soon be ubiquitous.

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would somebody tell me (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37040960)

who are these people? I mean, white? black? muslim?

Re:would somebody tell me (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37040976)

just some yobs who believe they can do what you want because the police won't stop them. multiculturalism and tolerasty at its best.

Re:would somebody tell me (3, Funny)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041058)

multiculturalism and tolerasty at its best.

Hi! :)

You seem to be trying to use a word that you don't really understand [wikipedia.org] .

Would you like me to...

1. Find close matches in the dictionary, based on the first few letters...?

2. Find likely synonyms in a thesaurus, based on context...?

3. Fill in some garbage that means nothing but sounds good so people might not quite so easily cop to the fact that you're a functionally illiterate racist moron...?

Re:would somebody tell me (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041100)

Thank you for your condescending tone, but you are sadly mistaken in your choice of suggestions.

I'll indulge you. What you are seeing in the streets in London is the destruction of the rule of law by a group of people who don't see value in civilization other than the one you can plunder. What you are also seeing is them being let off the hook by the institutions we pay for to keep the order. This practice is what is known as tolerasty. It is the exact opposite of tolerance and freedom. When you are tolerasting an aggressive group of asocial types whose only real gripe with society is them not being able to get what they want for free and resort to violence to "rectify" this gripe, you're helping to end it.

And that is what is happening in Europe, brought there by our coloured cousins.

Re:would somebody tell me (1)

polar red (215081) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041166)

them not being able to get what they want for free .

as opposed to the upper class who DO get what they want for free. THAT's the problem : a very WIDE gap between the working poor(look up what that means) and the very rich.

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041180)

Wow, all that "upper class" who's got their business and property thrashed are obviously guilty that a couple of hundreds of lazy immigrants won't learn English, won't find a job and won't work to buy whatever shit gets them high. Praise the lord, you found the solution to all our problems. Let's hang the rich and spread the wealth.

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041328)

You're definitely trolling - no one can be as dumb as you're pretending to be!

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041444)

This is not about class (I'll ignore the implication that anyone you consider "upper class" hasn't worked for what they have).

This is about scum who do not want to work for what they have. They feel entitled to take from others anything that they choose. Others includes people who actually have less than them, but have worked hard to gain something.

Re:would somebody tell me (1)

dintech (998802) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041500)

But there's the catch. These aren't 'working poor', they're feckless poor. There's a difference.

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041186)

>civilization
a civilization that can only sustain itself trough raping, plundering, slavery and 'donating' free weaponry in the third world.(of which the population tries to get into the first world, can you blame them ?

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041214)

only sustain itself trough raping, plundering, slavery and 'donating' free weaponry in the third world

If you really believe that, you should switch off your computer, get out, make your own javelin and begin fighting the good find to defend the raped and plundered slaves. Too bad you'll probably get off the hook with that mental disability you display.

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041274)

maybe you should visit some non-first world countries.

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041332)

Maybe I do visit some. I have not seen many raped and enslaved, except by their own dictators, but maybe sometimes I see their welfare exploding because of civilized medicine, because of jobs they get from the civilized world. Maybe I see this is happening despite their traditional "values", which, if left unchecked would keep them where they already were 1000 years ago.

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041532)

except by their own dictators

correction : *OUR* dictators. all have been put into place by OUR corporations, OUR kings, OUR governments. this has been going on for more than a century.

Re:would somebody tell me (1)

polar red (215081) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041540)

maybe not raped. but sweatshops = slavery.

Re:would somebody tell me (3, Insightful)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041282)

Fuck off you racist piece of shit. There is no such word as "tolerasty" except as invented by European neo-Nazis so that they can pretend to be smart while treating blacks, Jews, gays, Muslims, and virtually everyone else as sub-human vandals in their precious homogenous society. It is a portmanteau of tolerant and pederast, created with the intention of implying that tolerant people condone pedophilia.

What is happening in London has nothing to do with "your colored cousins". I won't even bother arguing why, because frankly, you're a monster of the same sort that murdered all those children in Norway, and as such are impervious to reason. I wish only that you die before you hurt anyone, and that no one follow you down that road of hatred that you're on.

I'm only even responding so that people see you for what you are, and know to distrust your every word.

Re:would somebody tell me (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041310)

I won't even bother arguing why, because frankly

Because, frankly, you've got no argument. But, like every other liberast, you like to slap labels. That's your only strength, though. Don't expect it to work when the order in your neighborhood collapses, though.

Re:would somebody tell me (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041472)

Aw, gee! The Elite don't like bad things happening to their children? Guess what - neither do the proles! [youtube.com] Considering that the parents of those children had a lot to do with making the policies that allowed bad things to happen to other people's children, I'd say that one is an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Get back to us when you want to cry for the victims of the crimes committed by the immigrants those arseholes let into the country.

Re:would somebody tell me (1)

gibbsjoh (186795) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041358)

"Brought there by our coloured cousins."

Asshole. You had a point right up to that last sentence. Go crawl back under the rock from which you came.

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041422)

Watch some coverage from the events, my friend, and if you don't see the obvious, you probably need a more unbiased news channel, a better TV or an ophthalmologist.

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37040980)

They're a bunch of white wankers who think they have it tough, but have no idea what a hard life really is. They're just using any excuse they can find to be assholes.

Re:would somebody tell me (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041222)

This is the reason more than all the other stupid shit I've heard bandied about.

The whole think has been in the making for years.

From the BBC

"He said youths aged from nine had been on the rampage through the city centre."

"When the BBC asked two youths why they were rioting, one responded: "Right, why are you going to miss the opportunity to get free stuff that's worth like loads of money?"

"The BBC's Chris Buckler watched police try to manage masked youths in Manchester
But they said it was not just about that, adding that it was in response to the government cuts."

Bullshit, they're 9 FFS, they're nothing more than thugs

"One added: "How many people have they arrested really, though, 10? I'm not really bothered. I'll keep doing this every day until I get caught."
He said he might be shouted at or grounded when he returned home but he would "live with that".
He added that it would be his first offence "so I'm not really bothered"

  If you want to stop it, do what you should of been doing for the last 20 years or so, and did to my generation.

When he gets home, give him a damn good thrashing and take him to the police station.

Re:would somebody tell me (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37040994)

who are these people? I mean, white? black? muslim?

It's not a race/religion issue.. the rioters are multicultural of every skin color..
What most of them have in common (other than the urge for a good round of fistycuffs) is belonging to a lower social class without much hope for the future. The UK government have been cutting cost lately, with the result that school is now 3 times as expensive as it used to be. Funding to social services has been reduced.. etc.. So these people find themselves at the bottom without any real ladders to get out of there.

But I guess a bunch of them are hooligans that just use it as an excuse to go rampaging too..

Re:would somebody tell me (4, Interesting)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041090)

Inflation is 4% for the rich, and 40% for the poor - might have a bearing on it. Plus the fact that the banks and insurance companies, utilities, etc are allowed to thieve from poor people while the government makes statements about "disapproving" but does not actually stop them, and the police keep being caught lying and cheating..

Re:would somebody tell me (2)

umghhh (965931) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041206)

you exaggerate of course but there is something to it. Desperation in mass of unemployed young people (lots of energy) can not be underestimated. In Germany people are conditioned into bearing own poverty with dignity i.e. not to ask for help or riot or any such nasty things.

As a side thought - fighting the government (policy) is becoming increasingly difficult. The masses seems to be immobile and largely ignorant so political actions are close to impossible but at the same time the state is becoming ever more powerful in finding out who did things and how to prevent them in acting - and masses love such protection because we value our security so much. Yet the state is unable to control organized youths too much so far. It seems cameras and NSA like technology are not sufficient to contain mass rage.

Re:would somebody tell me (3, Informative)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041128)

Yes massive cost cutting and "positional asphyxia" over the years "Deaths in police custody since 1998: 333; officers convicted: none"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/03/deaths-police-custody-officers-convicted [guardian.co.uk]
http://cryptome.org/info/totten-protest/totten-protest-01.htm [cryptome.org]
The Darcus Howe interview with the BBC is very telling too.

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041402)

Holly shit, 333 deaths no convictions.

Re:would somebody tell me (1)

mcvos (645701) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041202)

who are these people? I mean, white? black? muslim?

It's not a race/religion issue.. the rioters are multicultural of every skin color..
What most of them have in common (other than the urge for a good round of fistycuffs) is belonging to a lower social class without much hope for the future. The UK government have been cutting cost lately, with the result that school is now 3 times as expensive as it used to be. Funding to social services has been reduced.. etc.. So these people find themselves at the bottom without any real ladders to get out of there.

But I guess a bunch of them are hooligans that just use it as an excuse to go rampaging too..

Don't make it more political than it is. Yes, they are from the lowest social classes, but mostly, they're just itching for a fight. They want to have some impact, even if the only thing they can accomplish is to burn the place down. As I understand it, they're mostly gang members who set aside their differences to fight a common enemy: the police and society in general. They're definitely not representative for the regular (also poor) people in these neighbourhoods; if anything, those are their victims.

Though my impression is that the Met police isn't free from blame either. They seem to have a tendency to forget that normal citizens have rights, and seem to have a knack for making a really big mess out of relatively small issues.

Re:would somebody tell me (1)

wmac (1107843) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041088)

Should be Whites.

If they were Muslims this whole thing would be called a Terrorist action.

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041098)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/metropolitanpolice/ [flickr.com]

You know you cant go picking races like that but I does appear to be a majority black youths assumably from poor areas going on the photos, etc - and that is just simple statistics from what is available. I'm not a sociologist so I dont know why these things come about. I dont like picking on other races but thats what the pictures show. I think why there are so many seemingly unemployed youths kicking for a fight is the real question.

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041130)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/metropolitanpolice/ [flickr.com]

You know you cant go picking races like that but I does appear to be a majority black youths assumably from poor areas going on the photos, etc - and that is just simple statistics from what is available. I'm not a sociologist so I dont know why these things come about. I dont like picking on other races but thats what the pictures show. I think why there are so many seemingly unemployed youths kicking for a fight is the real question.

They are mostly black. But the press, being the politically correct organ it is, is making certain to amplify the exposure of any whites participating. Not that anyone is fooled, other than those that want to be.

Re:would somebody tell me (2)

mcvos (645701) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041216)

They are poor. No doubt non-whites are overrepresented, but there's a fair share of whites too. It's not a race thing. From what I understand, it;s mostly a gang thing.

Re:would somebody tell me (5, Interesting)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041392)

I just spent an evening embedded with indie journalists in Manchester. It's definitely at least two-thirds white.

And there's more to it than "mindless violence" too. The train station here, just a few hundred metres from one main flashpoint (Piccadilly Gardens), it fucking immaculate. I was in there at 5am this morning insisting that Network Rail put in an official statement to that effect. I hope they do.

They said themselves that last time there was disorder in Manchester (caused by a certain Scottish football team) Piccadilly Train Station was, to put it bluntly, completely ruined.

I saw all kinds of colours and themes of clothing; wierdos with cameras being ignored in favour of fasion shop windows. Most people stood around to bolster numbers, and those smashing windows are NOT those looting. The looters come after, and the are primarily white trash but I saw one Asian guy who was abusive to our photographers taking a whole glass shop counter in a van using a trolley.

"It's mine. You got a problem with that?"

Re:would somebody tell me (1)

Inda (580031) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041512)

It is a poverty thing.

It's also a boredom thing, especially with the youngest of the rioters. School holidays are three weeks in and the weather has been shite up until now. Being involved is an electric buzz. It's probably the most exciting thing a lot of them have ever taken part in.

People have witnessed police bribery and corruption on a local level for years and recently we've read about it on a nation level in the newspapers. Politicians have been caught with their fingers in the till. Obscene millionaires and their obscene amounts of power and money have been caught having their cake and eating everyone else's. Morality in the UK is shot to shit. Greed is the norm.

Is it any wonder they rioters have grasped their opportunity?

Re:would somebody tell me (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041352)

Somehow I doubt it's a race issue. It's simply that non-whites are overrepresented in the poor demographics. If it was the other way around, you'd see more white people rioting.

It's a rich vs. poor thing. Not black vs. white. You have angry, disillusioned, poor and hopeless people with a bleak outlook on their future, seeing that they have rather little of one. What do you expect them to do? Grin and bear it? Be honest, would you?

Re:would somebody tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041190)

I don't know about the rioters, but the vigilantes who are looking to find a way to stop this should be pretty easy to identify. All this rioting was tolerable up to this point, but it's only recently that the unrest threatened to derail the start of the football season. People could tolerate the unrest so long as it was isolated to poorer areas and didn't hit home, but god help any group trying to stand between the English and their Premiership.

This could be one of the first times in history that football has contributed towards ending violence.

Kool (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37040988)

Libertarianism is stupid, there can NOT be that much individualism simply because one of us isn't worth more than ALL of us.
That is the sad truth.
But then again, extremism is ALWAYS bad, left right or lib aut.
I hope they get caught.

This will never work (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37040990)

Most of the rioters are black, and they all look alike.

Re:This will never work (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041120)

Most of the rioters are black, and they all look alike.

Maybe you need to break into a store near you and get a better TV. The ethnic mix of the rioters is quite visible on most modern screens.

Re:This will never work (1)

blind monkey 3 (773904) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041344)

Most of the rioters are black, and they all look alike.

Maybe you need to break into a store near you and get a better TV. The ethnic mix of the rioters is quite visible on most modern screens.

It depends on what he chooses to see.

Re:This will never work (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041360)

A better TV helps little if the viewer is color blind.

Re:This will never work (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041450)

Maybe he got his TV on a special Daily Mail promotion, and it has a Daily Mail approved colour filter that makes bad people look black (and adds 'Muslim!' as a subtitle when they appear), and good people look white.

Re:This will never work (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041508)

And this is the exact negative of the filter on the TVs you can get on the Guardian promotion and the BBC recommendations, where all bad people look white. Unfortunately, the mainstream news are heavily biased in favor of this latter point of view. In the meantime in London crowds run unchecked. The liberasty has won, the freedom and civilization have lost.

Re:This will never work (2)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041550)

Why the hell would the Guardian (world-reknowned for voluntarily reporting from a neutral point of view) and the BBC (legally bound to do the same thing) want to skew statistics against the same race that makes up most of their staffers? You are seriously fucking trolling, I'm pretty damned sure the stills of crowds here in Manchester will prove you wrong.

Now why is this upload. taking so long? And before you ask, no I don't upload to that free-for-all Flickr or anything else like that, I upload to big three: BBC, ITN and Sky. And I give them time to publish before I even think about sharing them elsewhere, too. It's called getting paid for hard work, which these kids deserve a chance to do.

I've taught dozens of these same kids (I counted scores of Hi! Rachel's from the crowds last night) to shoot an SLR or a DVCam in safe environments like Moss Side, and Hulme. I've only ever had one camera stolen, a Nikon D40, and guess who stole it? A white smackhead. And we all know what I think of those. I'd sooner lock THOSE up than these "mindless thugs" and "different gangs" you're all getting worried about.

It's only the selfish and greedy who need fear this crowd, no matter what colour they are.

Really? Vigilantes? (5, Insightful)

Syphonius (11602) | more than 2 years ago | (#37040992)

Could we find a more loaded term than that? I don't think so. Heaven forbid some folks actually try to glom together and do good.

Re:Really? Vigilantes? (1)

terraformer (617565) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041158)

And it's not even an accurate use off the term to boot.

Re:Really? Vigilantes? (1)

mug funky (910186) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041182)

i believe that's the correct word.

Re:Really? Vigilantes? (1)

prefec2 (875483) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041238)

In an European context, vigilantes are also criminals, as the only organization which is allowed to use force is the state, which is legitimatized by the citizens.

On a side note: The problems in the UK are the same as in France or other countries. You people without a perspective and treated as second class citizens do not accept the state as their institution. They perceive the state as their enemy. In the UK they used CCTV to keep these people under surveillance which results in two things:
a) Crimes move to other areas
b) People get even more suppressed (at least they feel that way) which can erupt at any time.

To prevent such developments in future, we have to find a way to share the GDP more fairly.

Re:Really? Vigilantes? (5, Interesting)

rbrausse (1319883) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041394)

You people without a perspective and treated as second class citizens do not accept the state as their institution. They perceive the state as their enemy. [..] People get even more suppressed (at least they feel that way) which can erupt at any time.

slightly off-topic. this msnbc blog entry [msn.com] shows some interesting insight in the dynamics of the group:

a Londoner when asked by a television reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?

"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"

The TV reporter from Britain's ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. "Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."

Re:Really? Vigilantes? (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041266)

It's only a loaded term if you have a belief that vigilantism is always inherently bad.

Personally, I'm not convinced it is, so to see them called vigilantes doesn't give me a bad impression those folks.

Sometimes vigilantes can be real heroes, sometimes they can be complete idiots. Take the case in hand and decide for yourself what kind of vigilantes they are, don't assume they're always inherently bad.

Re:Really? Vigilantes? (1)

mvar (1386987) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041346)

Heaven forbid some folks actually try to glom together and do good.

Not always [youtube.com]

Bias (1)

qxcv (2422318) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041000)

100% of rioters identified used Facebook, Twitter of flickr. In related news, a new study shows Facebook, Twitter and flickr users found to be 100% more likely to take part in riots than those who do not use Facebook, Twitter or flickr.

Re:Bias (3, Funny)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041368)

Then it's easy, round up all Facebook users and lock them away.

It's so win-win...

Anti camera tech (5, Interesting)

irp (260932) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041006)

Reminds me: Somewhere on the internet is a description of how to build an anti-camera cap. Basically a baseball cap with a battery, and a row of powerful IR emitters along the rim. It utilizes that most security cameras can see into the IR, so the camera will gain down and leave the face in darkness, or at least distort it enough to nullify automated face recognition. Can be used during transport, where wearing a cap is not as suspicious as covering the face. ... Or will it soon be so that anyone not instantly recognized will automatically be a suspect? :-)

Re:Anti camera tech (2)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041024)

Fortunately, most rioters are morons and will not go through the trouble of building (much less remembering to wear) an anti-camera ball cap.

Re:Anti camera tech (1)

whiteboy86 (1930018) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041126)

> most rioters are morons

I've read they coordinated themselves via smartphones/Twitter and actually blinded the expensive camera systems first, undoubtedly the expensive CCTV system will get targeted unless hidden.

Re:Anti camera tech (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041234)

I am sure all that digital traffic is been recorded and sorted in real time - face, voice prints, ip's.
Roof tops, intelligence teams, air surveillance. The facial math for eye position, nose, lip is not too expensive to compare to every id photo in the UK.
In the near term its gathering all the electronic data in near real time and acting on it with a lot of snatch squads night after night.
Long term elite units fresh from colonial wars will start getting "supplies", images and maps ready.

Re:Anti camera tech (5, Interesting)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041464)

No, our police are wayto soft and stupid for that on this occasion.

Don't worry, I'll qualify this, I'm not trolling tonight, I'm deadly serious.

For years I've been filming and photographing peaceful demos here in Manchester (where it kicked off last night). When it was hippies, Green Party Comrades, and slightly biased press (count me in!), they used pyschological tactics like kettling, horse-trampling, and good planning, because we announce where we going and why well in advance (in accordance with our new Anti-Terrorist laws for peaceful protests - yes you read that right)

They had uniform photographers which were highly visible, and others cleverly hidden on roofs and in windows nearby. These guys were shooting top-end Canons with long 500mm lenses, yes I did chat to a few and they were specialists, not bobbies showing off nice SLRs to scare us.

Last night nothing like that was in evidence at all. They were charging anybody and everybody in their way (including me and other indie and staff journos hefting my SLRs), herding crowds of non-violent protesters along with the thugs, whilst completely ignoring looters. The above post just isn't accurate at all, and if anything they fought a losing battle again.

The BBC are totally in their pocket - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14470533 [bbc.co.uk] - it's the only way they can avoid having their cameras nicked. Our (indie) stuff isn't being broadcast anywhere yet, and the youths aren't bothering us, they're giving us a great show! A lot of them WANT to be photographed grinning. And a lot of them can articulate their political views very intelligently. And they're not copypasta ' ing each other either, they each have their own particular reasoning. They're human beings.

And on that note, I must relay a personal experience of mine last night. Staring down the eyepiece of a camera, I made eye contact with a "Robocop" riot officer looking at my camera and then rapidly side to side, and then at the camera again. I nearly cried, and I removed the camera from between with us and just bonded with him for a few seconds.

Nobody should be mixed up in a all this. "Them" or "Us" alike. Those police can end this right now by turning around, and enforcing the people's will on those who have caused these problems, since, well whenever. Those with the boot on the face of humanity.

Re:Anti camera tech (5, Interesting)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041502)

I didn't explain that beautiful moment properly, I didn't do him justice.

Despite all that armour, the weaponry, and his comrades flanking him, that officer in that moment was scared, scared of me, scared of the camera, scared of the idea (speculation begins) that maybe, just maybe they shouldn't be there and neither should we, and we both knew the reasons underlying it all.

Sharing that moment with him, and him seeing my expression and reaction, and the solid eye contact and mutual tears welling that ensued after I put my camera down from my face, has changed me forever. I can now view "the pigs" in a completely different light to my usual trolling self... I'm usually the first to slag authority and especially enforcement of same.

They bleed the same. I saw it last night. Thanks for listening, I had to get that out. Some of them are "jobsworths", some bullies, but not all. Remember that next time you hurl abuse at a police line. They could be our comrades come the Revolution. I saw that possibility tonight.

I'm going to bed, 24 hours awake now.

Re:Anti camera tech - lemon juice :) (1)

Willbur (196916) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041212)

Reminds me of McArthur Wheeler: (from http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/component/content/article/62/103182-pittsburgher-stupidity-in-the-news-the-mcarthur-wheeler-effect- [post-gazette.com] )

At 5 feet 6 inches and about 270 pounds, McArthur Wheeler is an easily recognizable man — even when wearing lemon juice on his face.

That certainly came as a surprise to Wheeler, 45, of Versailles Street, McKeesport. He was incredulous in April when Pittsburgh robbery detectives told him that he had been identified in surveillance photographs as one of the two men who robbed two banks in Brighton Heights and Swissvale on Jan. 6.

"But I wore the lemon juice. I wore the lemon juice,'' a puzzled Wheeler told the even more puzzled detectives.

The detectives' confusion turned to incredulity as Wheeler explained about his would-be lemon aid.
"Someone told him that if you put lemon juice on your face it makes you invisible to the surveillance camera,'' recounted a still chuckling Cmdr. Ronald Freeman of the investigations branch.

Re:Anti camera tech (1)

umghhh (965931) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041248)

great - modern version of a tinfoil hat - I was going to say that you should patent it but I suppose it is already patented as the rest of technology is patented [wikipedia.org] also.

Re:Anti camera tech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041284)

The example I saw only worked during the night (when cameras have their gain turned all the way up), and basically resulted in your head being a giant ball of flare. Great for being unrecognizable, but you suddenly become an enormous beacon (at least in infrared). Unless everyone's doing it, it'll actually be even easier to follow you while it's turned on.

Re:Anti camera tech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041466)

Risk of possible eye damage? I work in security. CCTV cameras with IR illuminators usually have a warning to turn off the IR light when you're working on them. Presumably when you're that close to the IR source it could damage your eyes?

Existing Database (1)

falconcy (1082517) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041014)

Since the introduction of biometric passports the UK already has a database capable of being used for facial recognition for the majority of people in the country.

Re:Existing Database (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041112)

only for people who have a passport. and seriously, have you looked like your passport photo lately?

Re:Existing Database (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041268)

You would have some photo taken at some point. School, welfare, bank account, job, passport, some licence may all need a new photo taken or photo id submitted on application.
The math of your face would do the rest.

Re:Existing Database (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041374)

Yes, except the sorts of scrotes involved in these riots are the sort of chav underclass who until now probably have never stepped outside their own estate.

Thus, the chance of any decent amount of them having a passport- something which is optional in the UK, is pretty much nil.

How to defeat facial recognition technology (1)

Spy Handler (822350) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041028)

1. ski mask
2. ???
3. profit!!

brought to you by John Dillinger

Re:How to defeat facial recognition technology (1)

cc1984_ (1096355) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041164)

1. ski mask
2. ???
3. profit!!

Sound advice. However, I suspect the majority of rioters on the streets at the moment aren't the type of people who read Slashdot nor think about the consequences of showing their face in public to all those people with smartphones.

For example: http://catchalooter.tumblr.com/ [tumblr.com] . No facial recognition technology with this site, just the "many eyeballs" technique.

Fix the problem... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041030)

I find it extremely offensive that these people would completely ignore the poor class in Tottenham and readily jump to aid of the investigators (and likely the prosecutors).

I eagerly await more riots in England. In fact, go nuts UK!

Re:Fix the problem... (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041108)

I eagerly await more riots in England. In fact, go nuts UK!

Looks like your wish is granted!

Talking is not Doing! (1)

JakFrost (139885) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041078)

All this talk and nobody posted a site up yet with all the perps identified and tagged? Sounds like design by committee, where there's only one real developer who understands and can do the work and a bunch of yakkers just chatting it up because they can't do it but want to be important or included.

C'mon, website up in T-minus how many hours?

PS: On a side note. Hearing the word Riot brings back the memories of the LA Riots and the one story that I remember is the guy with a hunting rifle living across the street from his friend's electronics store and keeping it looter free and allowing it to survive in tact while everything else got robbed or burned. When the shit hits the fan and the police aren't there to help you, just be prepared to help yourself and you'll do well! Too bad about London, as to quote FPS Russia, "One of those Beech countries, where you can't have guns!"

Re:Talking is not Doing! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041174)

Hearing the word "riot" makes me think "niggers". Astonishingly, I'm more often than not correct.

Re:Talking is not Doing! (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041386)

Hearing the word "poor" makes me think "blacks" (mostly 'cause I don't care to get racist when thinking). Astonishingly, I'm more often than not correct.

Correlation is not necessarily causation. They're not rioting 'cause they're black. They're rioting because they're poor and see no chance to improve this situation, ever. Which in turn leads to a lot of frustration and, well, if there's finally a way to vent that anger, I can well understand why they jump on it.

Re:Talking is not Doing! (4, Insightful)

u38cg (607297) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041410)

So, LA: lots of rioting, stores got looted. London: lots of rioting, stores got looted. Remind me again what gun control has to do with this?

Re:Talking is not Doing! (2, Insightful)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041456)

If you can't see the obvious problem in your post, then you're retarded.

America has some of the most lax gun laws in the world.

America still managed to suffer far worse riots than the UK has.

As an aside, how many people did the rioters themselves shoot in those riots with legitimately owned guns? No? don't want to answer that? According to Wikipedia 53 people died. Thus far only one person has died in the UK and he was shot by a rival gang with an illegal firearm.

Oh, but because one guy defended one shop, it's worth opening the tide of higher murder rates, and greater burden on health care that accidental and intentional gun wounds cause.

Yeah, I think we'll pass thanks. That's a hell of a price to pay for one guy to be able to defend one shop.

Oh, and for what it's worth you can have guns here. Just not things like automatic rifles and easily concealed pistols. You can have things like shotguns, and hunting rifles, but, well, even having them legal has led to questionable benefits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings [wikipedia.org]

Criminals will find weapons regardless, but much better that the chavs are busy with knives against which there is at least some ability to defend or run from or at worst passing round the odd, knackered old fire arm with limited ammunition than all armed up with well maintained fully automatic weapons, and as much ammunition as they'd ever want to buy.

No, you can keep your guns. With nearly 5 times our murder rate per head of population, most of which are a result of firearms incidents. As for Russia, well, their murder rate makes America's look good- at around 10 times our murder rate per head of population.

Perhaps you should take lessons from us instead? no? the NRA and tea party nut jobs wont let you? That's a shame.

Insufficient evidence (1, Interesting)

tftp (111690) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041084)

After the dust settles I'm sure only the people caught in the process of rioting will be prosecuted. Even if a camera records a man running into the store, grabbing something and running out, and even if that man is uniquely identified, he can always claim that someone forced him to do that, threatening him with a knife. In a quiet situation this lie can be untangled, evidence found, witnesses questioned, etc. etc. However in *this* mess it is impossible to prove or disprove the story, even though it is obviously a lie through and through. But you can't convict based on "obvious" things; you convict based on proven facts. Besides, the police already has about a thousand of rioters caught red-handed. They don't need more; they can't even find enough jail cells.

Re:Insufficient evidence (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041482)

A lot of them will be caught in the coming weeks and months. Most don't realise many modern devices like iPhones, XBox's etc. have unique identifiers such that if they ever use them online they'll almost certainly be flagged up and the police will be round to their house in no time where they can do them for stolen goods.

The jail cell shortage is no big deal, a criminal record and community service to clean up the areas they fucked up and then some will be a good enough response to many of the lesser offenders who just grabbed stuff and ran - effectively shoplifters. Save the jail cells for those who broke in in the first place, smashed up police cars, and most importantly- the arsonists. There'll be plenty of room for them.

Re:Insufficient evidence (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041542)

You cannot use someone threatening you as a defense for committing crime.

Re:Insufficient evidence (4, Funny)

BondGamer (724662) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041552)

"Seriously officer, this guy had a knife and he forced me to steal this big screen TV that is in my living room. I was going to return it after the riots were over!"

If Only... (3, Informative)

IonOtter (629215) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041092)

If only this technology were JUST going to be used on a bunch of minging neds and chavs, I'd have no problem with it.

But it'll be used for everyone all too soon.

Ah well, in the meantime, I'll be only too happy to watch a bunch of warbling brats get their arses handed to them by the cops.

Re:If Only... (1)

trickyD1ck (1313117) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041362)

I don't break the law so I am all for it being used on everyone who does. Why aren't you?

Anarchy in the U.K. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041124)

It's coming sometime, maybe, uh, now...?

Re:Anarchy in the U.K. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041148)

Looks more like the rise of the Planet of the Apes to me.

Smartwater (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041140)

I was just in the UK and in some of the suburbs in London there were signs up about SmartWater [wikipedia.org] being used in the area. I think it was just being used to tag property but some of the other applications there seem interesting.
 
In a riot-like situation where there are too many people to feasibly make significant arrests it seems like it would be useful to have a way of "tagging" them and then pull them more of them in in the subsequent days.
 
A week ago I was also in Nottingham and walked past a police station was firebombed yesterday [bbc.co.uk] . When in Fulham I twice took my 9 month old baby to the swimming pool at Normand Park [fulhamchronicle.co.uk] . I didn't perceive any sort of tension while I was there and it seems like the whole place just went mad between me getting on and off a plane back to Australia.

Re:Smartwater (2)

u38cg (607297) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041418)

But what would you charge them with? "Your honour, we have proved that this person was, on Tuesday 9th August, the target of a police waterpistol"? To convict someone, you need a specific act and a charge. Smartwater won't give you that.

Re:Smartwater (2)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041462)

If a log of where and when the Smartwater is deployed is maintained and possibly tallied with police video (or testimony) it should not be too hard to tie people to individual acts. I believe that is the actual point of Smartwater in that usage, you can tie a person (or persons) to an individual deployment of the SmartWater (as each deployment can be uniquely identifiable) and therefore tag people as associated with an to an act while it is ongoing.

Promote it boys! (-1)

Jedi Binglebop (204665) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041232)

They should be promoted for outstanding service to society those vigelantes. It's nothing less than the guerrilla gunners in east timer, the land of the rising run it's called, stamping out the abhorrant Indonesia nation from their cities. TAKe Up YOUr EFFORt FOr FREEDOm BABy! JAMie OLIVer should be the first to be commended for standing up to the institution. Great job Dire Straits; and Bladerunner soundtrack. Great job Vengalis. Your a hacker mate. A pro. -Oscarian aka Ian O Stolz

Re:Promote it boys! (0)

Jedi Binglebop (204665) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041372)

They should be promoted for outstanding service to society those vigelantes. It's nothing less than the guerrilla gunners in east timer, the land of the rising run it's called, stamping out the abhorrant Indonesia nation from their cities. TAKe Up YOUr EFFORt FOr FREEDOm BABy! JAMie OLIVer should be the first to be commended for standing up to the institution. Great job Dire Straits; and Bladerunner soundtrack. Great job Vengalis. Your a hacker mate. A pro. -Oscarian aka Ian O Stolz

Some nice music to listen to, guys, (and, gals):,)>.;=#-sun_=#-glasses:nnow, :=#_=#:do,you,see,it,now? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kSj2WgwEsI

"V for Vendetta" (1, Funny)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041252)

What? You guys haven't gotten your masks from Fed Ex yet?

What is going on? (1)

rmstar (114746) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041272)

I fear that a purely technical solution will make this situation a lot worse. People filming the riots will be beaten up, or worse.

Watching this amazing video [youtube.com] , I can't but wonder: what the hell is going on in the UK? Where did so much hate and anger come from?

Re:What is going on? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041302)

The government doesn't pay them enough to do nothing all day, and they can't afford the HP on their flat screen TVs. Also, the cops killed a drug dealer who instead of giving up, started shooting at the cops.

Re:What is going on? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041564)

Posting anon to avoid voiding moderation...

Also, the cops killed a drug dealer who instead of giving up, started shooting at the cops.

Except that the only bullets fired were police bullets according to the forensic evidence. The bullet stuck in the radio of the cop came from a police HK MP5 that fired two rounds, one of which killed the suspect.

Re:What is going on? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041426)

You have a lot of people, young people, who notice that they do not have a job, have no chance to ever have one that's worth having, have no perspective and no outlook in life and essentially have no future. And their present isn't too stunning either.

The combination thereof leads to a lot of frustration, anger and helpless rage. There is a lot of energy, a lot of very negative energy, built up and waiting for an outlet. This outlet has come now.

This is a phenomenon that's not unknown. People are willing to uphold the law unless they get the impression that a lot of other people break it and hence the threshold to step over the line gets lowered. You can easily see it in this example: Imagine a sign, "no littering". Nobody would dump his garbage there. Unless there is already a pile of trash lying around. Then more people will lose the inhibition to do the same. It's a group phenomenon, people feel safe and acknowledged in a group, and if the group is doing it, they can follow easily.

Now, the group is rioting and looting, so the inhibitors telling those people to not do it are eroding. Everyone's doing it, so I can too. Another example would be copyright infringement. Everyone's doing it. So why not me?

Once the dam that keeps the flood at bay has cracks, it takes very little to make it crumble. The UK now has two options: Take the pressure off the dam or reinforce it. Sadly, I think, they'll take the solution that is, at least in my opinion, the inferior one.

Re:What is going on? (2)

u38cg (607297) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041428)

Some legitimate grievances, some cultural issues, and large numbers of unemployed young males, always a recipe for disaster.

Were any of them identified as (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041278)

Guy Fawkes?

I mean, if there was ever a right occasion for wearing that mask, rioting in London would be one, right?

Stylish anti facial recognition (3, Informative)

mikejuk (1801200) | more than 2 years ago | (#37041316)

I think that the idea that these fashions will catch on to stop day to day facial recognition quite reasonable. See: CV Dazzle [i-programmer.info]

Oh goody (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041348)

An automated way to identify and persecute the demotivated, malcontent, teevee educated victims of your lovely welfare state. At least the Katrina strand-ees had an excuse.

UK Riots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041364)

Facial recognition may be awesome, but that aside, police seem to be under budgets globally. Even if the rioters are eventually convicted, most of us don't earn in a day what it costs to keep a person in jail/prison for one day, let alone the millions and millions of dollars/pounds to run people through the legal system. Additionally, billions have been spent on wars in far off lands. With no hope for many of seeing a wage increase anytime soon, the cost of food and lodging increases by the week, Most of us are in the majority of being soon to be pentioned with 10 or 20 years left, but the rioters appear to be young by all reporting. What is their future -- of a worse life of 60 or 70 years?. Who is holding the cards of hope? .

David Cameron Masks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37041526)

Oops, blacklisted!

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