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Samsung Tablet Ban Lifted For Most of EU

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the buy-while-you-can dept.

EU 137

jkcity writes "The ban on sales of Samsung's 10.1 tablet in the EU has been lifted everywhere except Germany. The new ruling is in effect until August 25th while it is decided whether the original court had the power to enforce an EU wide ban. With allegations that submitted evidence was not 100% accurate, the case could be bogged down in the court for years."

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Android tablets (-1, Troll)

MiG33 (2440442) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127238)

The problem with Android tablets is that they really aren't up to par with iPad. They look and feel clumsy, they don't have the same app economy that iPad has and most of all Android devices suffer from fragmentation. I really wish someone would come up with a better device. Microsoft's Courier looked great, so I hope they work on similar concept with Nokia.

Re:Android tablets (2, Informative)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127340)

Really? I've got a Xoom and it's been awesome. The only app I'm missing so far is Minecraft Pocket Edition, but not even the iPad has that.

Re:Android tablets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127722)

You know why they don't have that? It's Minecraft Pocket Edition :)

Re:Android tablets (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127358)

The problem with Android tablets is that they really aren't up to par with iPad. They look and feel clumsy, they don't have the same app economy that iPad has and most of all Android devices suffer from fragmentation. I really wish someone would come up with a better device. Microsoft's Courier looked great, so I hope they work on similar concept with Nokia.

Where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah.

I'm looking forward to discovering your next top-posting account, dumbass. How many new accounts is that now... 35?

Re:Android tablets (1)

MiG33 (2440442) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127880)

So? I think the Courier design with two foldable screens is far better than the current tablets. It's just sad that Microsoft didn't understand the potential in it.

Re:Android tablets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127944)

I don't even disagree with you. I just think that your actions and agenda are despicable.

Re:Android tablets (1)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128028)

Actually that courier does look cool.

No warranty on the blue pixels though.

Re:Android tablets (4, Insightful)

Z00L00K (682162) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127420)

And then - explain why Apple really felt the need to attack Samsung using a lawsuit?

If a product is bad it will just result in the situation where nobody buys it.

Re:Android tablets (0)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127580)

You put more faith in the customer's ability to tell gem from cap than is warranted.

Re:Android tablets (3, Insightful)

Ironhandx (1762146) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127652)

Indeed.

If the customer actually had that ability all of the iPads in the world would be collecting dust on a shelf somewhere - unsold.

Re:Android tablets (1)

DJRumpy (1345787) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127878)

So which is more logical. Some 80 million iPad's sold to date, and none of those 80 million people knew what they were buying?

If the customer actually had that ability all of the iPads in the world would be collecting dust on a shelf somewhere - unsold.

Or perhaps, it's well designed, with a good app selection, and really is targeted for someone other than /.?

Occam's razor: "The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one."

Re:Android tablets (3, Interesting)

Ironhandx (1762146) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128614)

I'll see your Occam's Razor and raise you one: Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds [wikipedia.org]

Given that Apple products have been found to spark a religious response in those that trumpet their benefits, I believe that Occam's Razor says that they're buying them due to a large delusional crowd movement.

Lets not forget that even with much proof to the opposite of what they claimed, snake oil salesmen could generally find someone local in a town to help them hawk their wares. These people often weren't in on the take. There is a reason selling odd concoctions was profitable.

Re:Android tablets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37129088)

Given that Apple products have been found to spark a religious response in those that trumpet their benefits

Also known as cognitive dissonance in modern literature.

Occam's Razor says that they're buying them due to a large delusional crowd movement

Also known as social facilitation in modern literature.

Re:Android tablets (1)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128710)

in cases where iphones, or ipads are involved, all bets about consumer sanity are off. occam's razor cowers in terror before the rdf!

Re:Android tablets (2, Funny)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127834)

If a product is bad it will just result in the situation where nobody buys it.

Then why do people buy Apple?

Re:Android tablets (1)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128058)

If a product is bad it will just result in the situation where nobody buys it.

Then why do people buy Apple?

Because Apple makes good stuff, and their designs are hot. I have Linux running on a 17" MacBook Pro (My boss gave it to me.) It's a nice puter.

Re:Android tablets (1)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128722)

that is stupid. osx>>>linux

Re:Android tablets (1)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128806)

that is stupid. osx>>>linux

Shuddup! Your stupider.

Re:Android tablets (1)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | more than 3 years ago | (#37129936)

that is stupid. osx>>>linux

Indeed, your assertion is quite stupid.

Re:Android tablets (3, Informative)

DrXym (126579) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127506)

The problem with Android tablets is that they really aren't up to par with iPad. They look and feel clumsy, they don't have the same app economy that iPad has and most of all Android devices suffer from fragmentation. I really wish someone would come up with a better device. Microsoft's Courier looked great, so I hope they work on similar concept with Nokia.

Most of the top end Android tablets (i.e. those running Android 3.0) are easily on par with the iPad. The OS is far better thought out than the iPad and multitasking isn't some afterthought. The apps some way to go and from experience writing apps this is probably due to the greater diversity of form factors and the layout models you need to produce to make them work properly.

I think a larger problem is that their price is on par with the iPad and the iPad is expensive. Once tablet manufacturers start dropping their prices they're going to sell a lot better.

There is absolutely no reason at all that a 9-10" tablet with capacitive screen, wifi, 16GB flash, 1GB ram, dual core couldn't retail for less than €300 and still make a profit. Stuff like 3G, compass, GPS, even rear facing camera could all be jettisoned if necessary since it's largely superfluous for what most tablets will be used for in the first place.

Re:Android tablets (1)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127706)

3G is already gone on the base models of both the iPad and Xoom (and probably others).
GPS is still nice (it means it can still be useful while on the move sans 3G, so long as you've cached your maps beforehand)
I agree that 2 cameras is a bit overkill, and lugging a tablet about to take pictures is very very awkward and the user-facing camera is all that's really needed (for video chat ofc). I've only used it once or twice, and that was for impromptu baby videos.

Re:Android tablets (1)

marsu_k (701360) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127754)

3G is a waste anyway IMHO - I got an Asus Transformer (which is really great, the most fun toy I've had in ages) knowing very well it didn't have 3G. I already carry a smartphone with me, pay for unlimited data, why would I want to pay for unlimited data for another device as well? If your contract prevents tethering, blame your operator. Or switch it even.

(Having said that, somewhat offtopic, it's really unbelievable that Android still doesn't support Bluetooth DUN - with PDANet it is possible, apparently, to tether for example a computer _to_ an Android phone, but one can't tether an Android tablet to a phone via DUN. And by the looks of it this won't be changed any time soon, so make sure your phone supports Bluetooth PAN if you intend to tether your tablet)

Re:Android tablets (1)

MiG33 (2440442) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127904)

Because you know, people have different needs. Tethering also is kind of pain in the ass, for both carrying two devices around and it doesn't always work that great. I'm willing to pay little extra to get more comfort. No, in fact I don't even have to pay extra for that. In my country operators are sane and they happily give you two sim cards, so you can use the same plan on both your phone and your tablet.

Re:Android tablets (1)

marsu_k (701360) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127938)

So you tend be on the move without your phone? I don't. And for me tethering always works great. Perhaps you should have invested in a device that just works ;)

Re:Android tablets (1)

MiG33 (2440442) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128620)

Yep, I used to carry my phone with me always.. but as I got a bit older I noticed it's much nicer to just leave it home and fully enjoy whatever you're doing outside.

Re:Android tablets (1)

NickDB (1289180) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128354)

How about countries that don't have wide spread WiFi?

Here my mates with a tablet use 3G a lot more than WiFi.

Re:Android tablets (1)

muntis (1503471) | more than 3 years ago | (#37129210)

How about countries that don't have wide spread WiFi?

Here my mates with a tablet use 3G a lot more than WiFi.

Parent already told that he has 3G enabled smartphone. So what stops you from creating Wi-Fi hotspot on phone and connect tablet to it?

Re:Android tablets (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128034)

"Stuff like 3G, compass, GPS, even rear facing camera could all be jettisoned if necessary since it's largely superfluous for what most tablets will be used for in the first place."

Would it need to be? The Orange San Francisco aka ZTE Blade has all these things and costs £90 off contract and both Orange, and ZTE each still make a profit on that. The handset isn't dual core but does have some decent hardware acceleration. I think you could still keep all this. Does it really cost say £150 - £200 more just to make a bigger screen, stick in a bigger battery, and a slightly better processor/memory at the manufacturer keeping in mind you could subtract from the original £90 the cost of the smaller battery, GSM stuff, and the cell phone sized AMOLED screen which you'd no longer need.

NetBooks packed much of the same hardware for similarly low prices 3 years ago so you're right, it's definitely doable now.

Re:Android tablets (1)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128078)

I think a larger problem is that their price is on par with the iPad and the iPad is expensive. Once tablet manufacturers start dropping their prices they're going to sell a lot bette.

A tablet is not a serious puter in most scenarios, it's an accessory.

I'd have a tablet if the price wasn't so outrageous.

Re:Android tablets (1)

compro01 (777531) | more than 3 years ago | (#37129326)

Might look at Archos' 9th generation tablets coming out next month. 8 or 10.1", 16GB flash (or 250GB hard drive), dual core (TI's OMAP4 SoC at 1.5 GHz), GPS, front camera, compass, etc.

Expected to retail for €256 for the little one or €278 for the big one.

Re:Android tablets (4, Informative)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127828)

Aside from the lack of apps, which is true, I'd have to say, I find my Toshiba Thrive much less clunky than an iPad. Yes it's larger, but it has a higher screen resolution, USB (which works with a hub) that can connect to a keyboard and mouse if I like, I believe it can do the same with bluetooth, DVI, audio, and storage can be expanded both with USB drives and a /SD([XH]C)?/ card.

I have access to an excellent email client, good web browsers, flash (actually, I'd uninstall it if I could, for security reasons), quite a few excellent games, good calendar apps... This is without resorting to apps that I have to pay for.

It has also been stable, and high performance.

Honest Mistake (4, Funny)

Spad (470073) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127244)

So they accidentally resized the image of the 10.1 so that it looked identical to the iPad for a side-by-side comparison, it's a mistake anyone could have made on a key page of court-submitted legal documents...

Re:Honest Mistake (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127260)

Yes, of course. Since the point was to show how similar the two tablets are, what better way to demonstrate it than to resize them to the same aspect-ratio and remove all brand-logos and other stuff setting them apart. Apple is only trying to make help the court reach the correct and just decision. That is how userfriendly they are, always making it easier.

Re:Honest Mistake (5, Funny)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127306)

But they could have helped seeing the similarity even further by simply using two iPad images. Nobody would have missed the stunning similarity between the devices.

Re:Honest Mistake (4, Funny)

robthebloke (1308483) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127644)

Oh, so they've added copy and paste then? :p

Re:Honest Mistake (1)

mmcuh (1088773) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127742)

There's an app for that.

Re:Honest Mistake (1)

Noughmad (1044096) | more than 3 years ago | (#37129746)

Unfortunately, it produces a farting sound whenever you use it.

Re:Honest Mistake (0)

qxcv (2422318) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127292)

Putting the device in its non-default portrait mode and rearranging the icons was mostly the camera man's fault, and the obscuring of the Samsung logo was just poor lighting conditions.

Re:Honest Mistake (4, Funny)

tdc_vga (787793) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127312)

Don't forget that if they'd simply bothered to show up to the ex-parte hearing, Samsung could have easily informed the court that the camera man had made such a terrible mistake. So, clearly, it's their fault.

Re:Honest Mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127364)

There was no such hearing. Samsung was notified after the ban was ordered

Re:Honest Mistake (3, Informative)

sjames (1099) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127388)

OP was being facetious. By definition, Samsung wouldn't have been at the ex-parte hearing!

Re:Honest Mistake (0)

makomk (752139) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127454)

Whoosh!

Re:Honest Mistake (1)

SecurityTheatre (2427858) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127618)

ex-parte is latin for excluding one or more parties...

Re:Honest Mistake (2)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127642)

Sorry to kill your funny, but the court figured out it couldn't judge for the entire EU, just Germany - that's all.

Re:Honest Mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127916)

No, actually what happened is, the found out there are serious questions as to the correctness of the evidence given by the complaint, and so they WOULD not judge for the entire EU!

They are in their full right to do so, and DECIDED that would not, because of these problems with the evidence. So if apple want to ban the Galaxy Tab in the rest of the EU they now have to go to each country. And ofcause risking their documents to be declared fraught and the entire case thrown everywhere AND a huge damages claim from Samsung. With a single court proceedings that would have taken longer and the damages would be smaller...

Re:Honest Mistake (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 3 years ago | (#37129066)

Erm, no.

Re:Honest Mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37128398)

How does it kill his funny? The court's decision doesn't change the fact that Apple's submission had a distorted image of Galaxy Tab.

Re:Honest Mistake (4, Insightful)

Grizzley9 (1407005) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127950)

So you're basically calling that judicial system incompetent since they don't look at, you know, the *actual products*? Something tells me that making this kind of a judgement that affects millions of dollars would require a little more scrutiny than looking at a thumbnail pic on a legal sheet. That or you don't know jack about the details of the case and what actually happened and are just slinging soundbites.

Why judges don't look at the products themselfs (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37128500)

For a usual computer user, it makes perfect sense to just try out the two products and arrive at a conclusion whether they are similar or not. Why do Judges rely on printed testimony? But if you think about what a Judge really is responsible for, paper makes more sense than actual devices:

Let's look at an imperfect analogy: For a normal computer user, it makes perfect sense just to use a binary program --- it just works. But for a programmer or a systems administrator, having GPL and getting the source makes a big difference. Why? Because the programmer and the systems administrator are responsible for more than just running the program. They may need to fix bugs, add features, install the program on other machines; port it to other hardware etc. You can do this if you have the source and the GPL. With just the binary, you are often out-of-luck.

A similar argument applies to judges: They are not only responsible to get a personal opinion "I think the products are similar". They need to be able to justify, explain and analyze the details of this decision in the light of the arguments of each party. And here, testimony on paper has big advantages: You can easily copy the testimony (publicize and review it outside the court). The opposing party may check what the judge was actually looking at. The testimony doesn't change after the court session. You can easily store hundreds of pages of such testimony in folders etc.

Let's illustrate this with some hypothetical examples:

Apple claims that Android is identical to the iPhone. Apple and HTC provide two phones to let the judge try it out. The judge swears that they are **exactly** identical (not similar but identical). What happened?

Prior to the trial Apple ported the Android to run on the iPhone and installed both systems. So, when the judge compared the two phones, they indeed acted identically --- running Android. At this point of investigation, this was all that mattered. At the end of the test, an Apple engineer remotely instructs the modified phone to remove the Android install and thus remove any traces of cheating. (Of course, this thought example is exaggerated. But it highlights the point that inspecting actual products gives each party uncontrollable powers to game the cards).

On printed testimony, it is open what the judge sees: You can distribute copies of all documents to all parties --- and any cases of tampering can be brought out to the open --- just as it happened in this case. Thus for the purpose of a court case where each piece of evidence may need to be challenged and investigated, paper is far superior to actual products.

Re:Honest Mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37129182)

The judge made his decision based on the ACTUAL PRODUCTS.

Re:Honest Mistake (1)

CheerfulMacFanboy (1900788) | more than 3 years ago | (#37129360)

Image on page 39 shows both side by side in their packaging - yeah, they look nothing like each other - like two eggs from a basket.

grrr (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127250)

this is the kind off behavior that makes me really hate apple i haven't bought an apple product since the patent trolling began, just leave android alone OK?

Re:grrr (3, Informative)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127342)

Yep. We're always being told how Apple is the best quality, best operating system and how they keep prices lower than everybody else by buying up massive amounts of chips for years in advance of production, etc.

Now they're saying they can't compete in a fair marketplace?

Re:grrr (2)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128920)

Who said anything about that? They are competing just fine, but they feel that Samsung has infringed on their design, and they have the right to be able to sue over that perceived infringement (whether they are technically correct or not, it is in their own power to bring the suit).

This is no different to a content producer coming out with a cartoon mouse called "Ricky" and giving him hemispherical black ears and a pet dog called "Gluto". If Disney sues you over this, does that suddenly mean "they can't compete in a fair marketplace"?

I'm not certain the lawsuit holds much water (The Tab doesn't really look all that iPad like, unlike the Galaxy S which *does* look a lot like an iPhone), but Apple's right (or anyone's right) to sue for infringement has no relevance to their ability to compete in the market. They actually make and sell a product, unlike a pure "IP company" looking to make cash from other manufacturers.

Re:grrr (1)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | more than 3 years ago | (#37129890)

No one is saying that. This is a boxing match, all parties are exchanging blows and we're only in the second round. So why does everyone start crying foul whenever one of the Android camp takes one on the nose ? Why gloating when Samsung asks to block the sale of iPads and iPhones [v3.co.uk] but outrage when Apple retaliates ?

Re:grrr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37128970)

Um, no. Apple go protect your patented IP. Google just stop stealing others work without licensing it.

so good apple tried to ban it! (5, Insightful)

DMoylan (65079) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127266)

so good apple tried to ban it!

you can't buy advertising that good!

disclaimer-very happy with the 7" tab

They're still trying to ban the entire galaxy line (5, Informative)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127492)

Apple is actually seeking a ban on all of the Galaxy products, including the original tab and the Galaxy S2 smartphone, in The Netherlands.
This is not just a ban from Samsung importing them. It's a ban on retailers to sell them (i.e. they need to recall them) and distributors distributing them (to other countries). So that 'good advertising' would only last for as long as they're still allowed to sell it - which might be until mid October if they're unlucky.

In addition Apple demand that in Samsung's recall notice to distributors and retailers, they make note that the product infringes on Apple IP.

It seems very much a "Let's demand the ridiculous - any toning down by the judge will then fall in our favor" type move, but I'm sure they're actually quite serious.
Source: http://webwereld.nl/nieuws/107630/apple--gehele-galaxy-lijn-moet-uit-de-schappen.html [webwereld.nl]

Apple isn't scoring any brownie points with these demands, that's for sure. One major online news site's (nu.nl) comments are replete with negative comments toward Apple, even from avid Apple fans, and they're not doing much better over at the #1 tech news site for NL/BE (tweakers.net).

Not that I think it'll impact Apple's bottom line in any way. ha.

I have no doubt that they would extend this to the EU.

Re:They're still trying to ban the entire galaxy l (1)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 3 years ago | (#37129820)

>Not that I think it'll impact Apple's bottom line in any way. ha.

Half of Apple's income is from the iPhone. The Galaxy S phone is arguably cutting into the iPhone marketshare, as its one of the better Android phones out there and is a little cheaper and can be had on multiple carriers. I have a Vibrant on T-mobile and its a really neat piece of technology, so I can see why Apple is afraid of it.

Apple's take, imho, is that they'red damned if they don't do a patent attack and damned if they do, so why not? They don't give two shits about upsetting their loudmouth superfans nor about setting off a patent war that could potentially cripple the industry. They just need to worry about next quarters earning report.

I suspect these desperate measures are signs that Apple's massive growth is beginning to stagnate. Everyone who wants an iPhone probably has one and if Android continues to move in, then you won't have the growth you had in the past.

Everywhere except Germany (1)

scsirob (246572) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127320)

Europe has treaties that allow any European to buy goods and services in any other country. So all the Germans have to do is buy through a webshop in another country..

Re:Everywhere except Germany (0)

gnasher719 (869701) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127348)

Europe has treaties that allow any European to buy goods and services in any other country. So all the Germans have to do is buy through a webshop in another country..

I doubt that covers the case where there is an injunction against the sale in one country. With 2 million Euros fine. So you can be sure that Samsung will do everything they can to prevent such sales.

The other problem is of course whether anyone wants a tablet that isn't an iPad. HP seems to have 90% of their tablets still in stores with nobody wanting to buy them.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (1)

jean-guy69 (445459) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127408)

While HP Touchpad tablets stay on the shelves, Android tablets have captured 20% of the market share.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127442)

There are lots of reasons to *not* buy an iPad. The dubious recent behaviour of Apple is just one of them (and I speak as someone who only has Macs at home).

For example, I bought an EeePad Transformer yesterday.

I did not need to plug it into a computer capable of running the latest iTunes - I just turned it on and connected it to our wifi network and it updated itself. I did not need to sign up for an account and register my machine with Asus (or Google). I have a proper keyboard and USB ports. I can use a browser that is *not* based on WebKit if I want to (e.g. Opera).

The HP Touchpad has other issues though - primarily that it's a terrible clone of an iPad with an OS nobody wants except for novelty value. I can't imagine why anyone would want a Blackberry Playbook for much the same reason.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127554)

Kudos for sticking to your convictions and not falling for the marketing. It's always so tempting to unify on one vendor (Apple, Microsoft, etc). I guess that increasingly goes for Google as well.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127646)

Kudos for sticking to your convictions and not falling for the marketing. It's always so tempting to unify on one vendor (Apple, Microsoft, etc). I guess that increasingly goes for Google as well.

The 90s called. They want their Kudos back.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127698)

The 90s called. They want their Kudos back.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kang.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (1)

KingMotley (944240) | more than 3 years ago | (#37129042)

Lol, and you pick Opera as a company you want to use because Apple went to the courts instead of trying to compete? ROFL. Such a short memory you have.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (1)

butchersong (1222796) | more than 3 years ago | (#37129276)

I have to disagree with you about the HP Touchpad. I've used all 3 operating systems, phones and tablets, and much much prefer WebOS to Android or IOS. The first gen hardware leaves something to be desired but on a phone or tablet WebOS kills the other two from a user (and developer from what I'm hearing) perspective.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (3, Informative)

sjames (1099) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127410)

Actually, there are two entities involved, Samsung Germany and their parent company in Korea. The latest ruling is that the court probably only has jurisdiction over the subsidiary. So, if a German person buys one through a retailer that in turn buys from Samsung Korea, no order is violated.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (1)

Apotekaren (904220) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127474)

If the tablet is bought from a retailer outside of the injunction area, no one can touch them, since the injunction covers SELLING, not buying. Mind you, this injunction covered all of EU except The Netherlands(IIRC), so the Germans would only have to shop from a Dutch webshop to go around it.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (2)

caius112 (1385067) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127508)

I doubt that covers the case where there is an injunction against the sale in one country.

The current German court decision means that if you are a retailer, you can't sell the Samsung tablet in Germany. It does not limit the free circulation of goods inside the EU, so you can very well buy it from France or Italy or Austria and have it shipped to your German address.

This freedom is one of the key principles of the European Union.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127610)

...if you find a company who's willing to take the risk of doing that.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (2)

caius112 (1385067) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127648)

It's not a risk. You can't get sued for it. For example, video games are heavily censored in Germany, so everyone just imports them. Zero risk involved.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127960)

Wrong. the injunction says that Samsung Germany is not allowed to import or sell the device. A retailer that buys from Samsung Korea is not affected by the injunction, and any device that has already been purchased from Samsung Germany before the injunction can still be sold. All the big retailers still sell the device.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (3, Informative)

moronoxyd (1000371) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127544)

Funny thing: One of Germany biggest retailers just started selling the Samsung Galaxy Tab. They argue that the injunction is only against Samsung.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127562)

They are right. Samsung can not sell to shops in Germany. Shops can sell what they already have.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127604)

Where did you get that idea from? Free trade of goods and services is only good if it's to the benefit of the corporations, not the customer!

Anyone who has not figured out by now that the sole purpose of the EU is to strengthen the economy and screw the population?

Re:Everywhere except Germany (2)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128418)

"In Soviet Russia, the government controls the commerce."

among the most important reasons why I thought that it was a good idea for Finland to join EU was that we could then get more free trade, which we did. basically that's buying stuff from europe without paying excessive customs, we pay still a fair deal of customs/tax on imported used cars but not nearly as much as we did before.

but the IP rights used in this case are ridiculous - the lawyers involved are _highly_ paid so what the fuck can't they do any prior art checking, checking of actual products or anything? they should be industry experts too, not some guys who think that copyright+trademarking a design shown 32423 times in concepts and even practice before is ok - and they should have at least read the news to have seen some actual pics of the devices in question. it's ridiculous, if apple got what it wanted they'd have a potential 25 years monopoly on about a4 sized portable touchscreens.

Re:Everywhere except Germany (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127990)

All that germans have to do is go to their favorite electronics retailer and buy the thing. The injunction only says that the german subsidiary of Samsung cannot import or sell the device. Anyone else (including other divisions of Samsung) can still legally import and sell the device without any kind of issues, so the whole thing is really not as big as it sounds. And even for this limited scope, there's a heated debate whether the court actually had the authority to issue the injunction, since according the legal procedures, you have to sue the company at the court where they are registered, you can't just go to any random court (as Apple did in this case)

Re:Everywhere except Germany (1)

Nerzhul (1969786) | more than 3 years ago | (#37129444)

This is not true. Laws differ throughout the EU. A good may be legal in one country but not in another. For example you're allowed to buy marihuana in the Netherlands, but not in Germany.

Security of the Android OS? (0, Offtopic)

bejiitas_wrath (825021) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127354)

How does the security of the Android operating system compare to a more open operating system distribution like Debian or Fedora? Are they checking the applications that are added to ensure they do not bring in any security holes?

Just wondering. I am wanting to purchase a new or second hand `phone and I am wondering whether the Android thing is worth it or should I get something running Symbian.

Re:Security of the Android OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127480)

I wouldn't trust Apple's or Google's filtering process (hint: Google doesn't undergo any such pre-submission process). On the PC I usually perform limited disassembly and PE-header inspection on non-signed, non-publisher executables. One benefit of Dalvik is that it uses a higher level virtual instruction set, so that reverse engineering apps is a lot quicker than on native platforms. It also helps that most apps are minuscule in size, smaller than a few-thousand LoC. Compiled apps retain object file information, so disassembly/decompilation won't produce a giant blob of unorganized (asm) code.

Re:Security of the Android OS? (1)

RobbieThe1st (1977364) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128278)

You've only one choice: The Nokia N900. It's cheap enough used, fast enough for most things(including slashdot browsing), and runs a full Linux-based OS, including X11. Which means you can easily run a stock Debian or Ubuntu chroot on top of the native apps.

Apple seeks to ban all Galaxy problems. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127366)

According to the Webwereld. Apple is trying to block all products of the "Galaxy" series. So not only the 10.1 pad.
Possible victims are Galaxy S, Galaxy Tab 7 inch, ACE, Gio, Mini, Apollo, ...

Article here (in Dutch)
http://webwereld.nl/nieuws/107630/apple--gehele-galaxy-lijn-moet-uit-de-schappen.html

Re:Apple seeks to ban all Galaxy problems. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127596)

Oh no! What about Galaxy Caramel and Galaxy Hazlenut?

Re:Apple seeks to ban all Galaxy problems. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37128266)

They'll just be renamed to Dove

Community designs as were use for the injuntion (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127458)

The following article [osnews.com] has some very interesting information about Community Designs, which were used for getting the original injunction.

Community designs are basically unreviewed sketches of products which can be used to silently get an injunction for your competitors product.
No checks are done for obviousness, nor for prior art.

Re:Community designs as were use for the injuntion (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128522)

It's just a Design Patent, or a Registered Design to our UK readers. You can get exactly the same kind of registration, in the same way, at the USPTO.

Regardless the article is factually incorrect on several points, not least is assertion that Apple somehow got an automatic injunction for showing up with the paperwork. The injunction was granted on an inspection of the actual devices by the court, which evaluated whether the design was likely to have been infringed.

Re:Community designs as were use for the injuntion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37128642)

Please take a look at the nature of the "designs" before even trying to defend this. Samsung's devices have been found to infringe on sketches that predate the iPad by six years.

And about the filing date: "Apple filed a grand total of 97 Community Designs that day". There is not a single smartphone on the market that does not match at least one of the sketches shown. Apple could monopolize the entire market based on one day's worth of paperwork. How is that a good thing?

Re:Community designs as were use for the injuntion (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128780)

A design patent is like a trademark, infringement is a complex matter of judgement that will be settled by the court. It's not some magical legal instrument of overwhelming power. I'm sure Samsung has its own fair share of community design patents lodged in the EC.

Re:Community designs as were use for the injuntion (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128854)

To put that in perspective, In the last 12 months alone, Samsung's lodged over 400 applications in the same register, including batches of dozens of designs for tablets and swathes of material claiming ownership of the appearance of their peculiarly iOS-esque flavour of Android. It's standard procedure in that business.

Re:Community designs as were use for the injuntion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37129080)

Ok, so this exists in the US too then.
But I still don't get it. If you look at the sketches for the ipad, it's basically a rectangle with rounded edges and a border. How can you get any kind of patent for that?

Also, the article stated that the injunction was granted because the galaxy tab does look like the pictured device, and apparently said Community Designs are valid automatically, without ever being examined. In slashdot terms:

1. Submit a couple thousand Community Design patents
2. Get injunction against anybody who makes something that looks like what you pictured.
3. No more profit for the guy who the injunction was filed against, at least until he managed to proof that the Community Design was bogus.

(I'm assuming that No more profit for the other guy somehow is good for you here).

Re:Community designs as were use for the injuntion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37128810)

Mod this up. That has to be the biggest WTF I have ever seen. What idiots drafted this legislation (and from which ivory tower), and how can they be held accountable? No review until after the injunction is granted? 25-year monopolies based on a sketch?

The only way this failfest can be corrected is if the punitive damages for wrongful filing equal the damage done, i.e. if Samsung wins on appeal, Apple's products should be barred from the EU for as long as the duration of the trial.

Lifedrive anyone? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37127548)

Rectangular, rounded corners... wait a minute!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/LifeDrive.jpg

Let's go, HP!

Re:Lifedrive anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37128332)

I was think on something more like a PDA 600 [pdamuseum.info] without lid.
Amstrad was aiming for a pad with that black rectangle with rounded corners look while Apple was still developing the Apple Newton.

No contest (-1, Flamebait)

crossword.bob (918209) | more than 3 years ago | (#37127956)

Samsung could win this case easily. All they need to do is prove that the iPad's touchscreen works [youtube.com] .

Disgusting (1, Troll)

Yamioni (2424602) | more than 3 years ago | (#37128090)

[...] the case could be bogged down in the count for years.

Well, I guess that's better than being down on the Count for years. I hear his dick tastes like cocoa puffs.

Re:Disgusting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37128298)

I guess that explains why your breath smells of Cocoa Puffs too.

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