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Former Popemobile Going Up For Auction

Unknown Lamer posted more than 3 years ago | from the but-officer-my-car-is-infallible dept.

Transportation 68

Zothecula writes with an amusing article in Gizmag. From the article: "The greater share of the value of any significant collector car is in the provenance — who sat in the seat before you, and experienced the same vehicle, can make a massive difference to the price the car commands. What then of a car that was built for and used by Pope Paul VI? It was subsequently the centre of numerous other ticker tape parades with dozens of dignitaries, most notably the first astronauts to orbit the moon (Apollo 8's Frank Borman, James Lovell and William Anders), the first astronauts to set foot on the moon (Apollo 11's Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, plus Command Module Pilot Michael Collins) plus Apollo 13's Lovell, Mattingly and Haise and Apollo 15's Scott, Worden and Irwin, President Lyndon LBJ Johnson and VP Hubert Humphrey."

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How many does it seat? (1, Funny)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#37133840)


This thing must seat 10 or 12. Altar boys aren't that big.

Re:How many does it seat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37134200)

Why are there so many bigots on Slashdot? Good grief grub.

Re:How many does it seat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37134408)

Not bigoted, just in poor taste or funny. Depends on your viewpoint.

Re:How many does it seat? (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134452)

Making pope jokes and altar boy jokes does not make one a bigot. Had he said something about needing a lot of space for his hundreds of children because every sperm is sacred, that's maybe very slightly bigoted, but not worth calling out. Save the bigot card for racism, sexism, or gaybashing.

Re:How many does it seat? (4, Insightful)

Mindcontrolled (1388007) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134674)

Painting a whole religion with millions of followers into the pedophile corner is bigotry. Pointing out a problem that is, in some parts, indeed institutional, would not be. Painting with the broad brush is. Stereotyping in general is. I am as atheist as they come, but I definitely see bigotry here. I do agree that in broad terms the group you mention are worth of far more attention, since they are still institutionally persecuted, which the catholics are not, but the mechanism is the same here, the state of mind behind the joke is the same as the one behind a nigger joke - only less severe due to the more privileged nature of the group attacked.

Re:How many does it seat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37135130)

> Painting a whole religion with millions of followers into the pedophile corner is bigotry.

If I (and others) had known about that sickening pedophile shit earlier I (and others) would have left that organisation ("religion") even faster.

The people who are still in that organisation are so ignorant they probably don't really believe in God.

Re:How many does it seat? (1)

tehcyder (746570) | more than 3 years ago | (#37141046)

The people who are still in that organisation are so ignorant they probably believe in God.

FTFY.

Re:How many does it seat? (0)

wisnoskij (1206448) | more than 3 years ago | (#37135150)

I don't see how this could be considered bigoted, he did not even close to call all Catholics pedophiles just the old pope.
And it is a undeniable fact that at the very least he would of been aware of the cover ups of priest pedophiles.

Re:How many does it seat? (1)

adamofgreyskull (640712) | more than 3 years ago | (#37135820)

Do you really think so? I'm not so sure. Cover-ups don't necessarily happen that far up the food-chain. At least, I suspect, not so far up that the Pope would be sure to hear about it. It's more likely to be a local bishop/deacon who turns a blind-eye or gives the priest "counselling" and "spiritual guidance" or has him moved to another diocese rather than calling the cops.

I'd happily concede if it was an "undeniable fact", but this sums up my feelings rather well: "It's always simple. There's no mystery to the street, no arch criminal behind it all. If you got a dead body and you think his brother did it, you're gonna find out you're right."

Re:How many does it seat? (0)

wisnoskij (1206448) | more than 3 years ago | (#37136002)

Well unless I am mistaken the current pope used to be the guy in charge of the coverups? Ergo the leadership of this organization knew about the cover ups and were somewhat involved with them.

And the pope did not just descend from heaven one day and get appointed pope, he would of worked his way up (at least I have never heard about the position being a hereditary one).
He would of held most of the positions of a priest and most likely worked in many churches in a variety of locations.

But the whole Catholic church cover up issue is not even so much that some priests are pedos. it is that the entire church is involved in shifting them around, covering up for them, and when needed flying them to Vatican city and putting them in a specially designated building for pedo priests fleeing the law.

Re:How many does it seat? (1)

psmears (629712) | more than 3 years ago | (#37139234)

Well unless I am mistaken the current pope used to be the guy in charge of the coverups? Ergo the leadership of this organization knew about the cover ups and were somewhat involved with them.

You're making too many assumptions. First, there was only a central organisation to investigate abuse since 2001 [wikipedia.org] :

Prior to 2001, the primary responsibility for investigating allegations of sexual abuse and disciplining perpetrators rested with the individual dioceses. In 2001, Ratzinger convinced John Paul II to put the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in charge of all investigations and policies surrounding sexual abuse in order to combat such abuse more efficiently.

Pope Paul VI - the one we're talking about - died in 1978 [wikipedia.org] . So while it's not impossible that he knew something, "undeniable fact" is stating the case too strongly.

Re:How many does it seat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37135180)

Well, I don't see bigotry. After all, this and the last pope did help hide paedophiles. What does that make them?

Re:How many does it seat? (1)

RoFLKOPTr (1294290) | more than 3 years ago | (#37137262)

Painting a whole religion with millions of followers into the pedophile corner is bigotry.

And calling someone a bigot because they made a joke based on ridiculous stereotypes is called "taking things way too seriously."

Re:How many does it seat? (2)

d.the.duck (2100600) | more than 3 years ago | (#37135310)

WOW. So now it's okay to bigoted, just so long as it's against catholics? I'm atheist but fuck, that's unbelievably hypocritical.

Re:How many does it seat? (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#37135946)

So now it's okay to bigoted, just so long as it's against catholics?

Didn't say anything of the sort. Whining about bigotry is only justified when there's discrimination going on, which there's not for catholics. Jokes about priests and altar boys is just flat out -not- bigotry.

I'm atheist but fuck, that's unbelievably hypocritical.

It's debatable whether I'm catholic, but no, I don't think it is.

the word you are looking for (1)

publiclurker (952615) | more than 3 years ago | (#37136086)

is illiterate not atheist, since there is no bigotry involved in the statements.

Re:How many does it seat? (1)

tehcyder (746570) | more than 3 years ago | (#37141142)

WOW. So now it's okay to bigoted, just so long as it's against catholics? I'm atheist but fuck, that's unbelievably hypocritical.

Bigotry is irrational hatred of a group simply for possessing an attribute you don't, such as dark skin, a pair of tits or an insatiable urge to gay-rape innocent straight men's bottoms.

Whereas, there are many rational reasons to mistrust and fear the Catholic Church.

Re:How many does it seat? (1)

d.the.duck (2100600) | more than 3 years ago | (#37146734)

Thank you for demonstrating how exactly this is bigoted. Sure there are plenty of reasons to mistrust and fear Catholics. However you are incorrect on the definition of bigotry. It's a preconceived notion imposed on one person based on the actions or beliefs relating to some aspect of that person. As you explained, some people see news stories of violent inner city black people and thereby fear all black people or hate them or whatever. Using an individual instance to paint a person or group of people as something rather than judging the individual. He implied the Pope was a child molester. Granted he did so in humor, I understand that, but it's maddening to see the acceptable threshold of bigotry both humorous and otherwise toward Catholics. And that's okay. If there was an article about a homosexual and someone said "I bet he has AIDS" there would be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth. Play fair. You want to decry being bigoted and predjudicial, then don't do it your damn self. (I fully understand that Catholics and Christians in general are some of THE most prejudicial and bigoted people out there... but regardless that doesn't permit one to be bigoted against THEM.... unless you don't mind being a hypocrite)

Re:How many does it seat? (1)

tehcyder (746570) | more than 3 years ago | (#37141014)

Making pope jokes and altar boy jokes does not make one a bigot. Had he said something about needing a lot of space for his hundreds of children because every sperm is sacred, that's maybe very slightly bigoted, but not worth calling out. Save the bigot card for racism, sexism, or gaybashing.

Why would it count as any sort of bigotry to point out the absurdity of the Catholic church's views on contraception? It's not like calling all Muslims terrorists, which is simply incorrect.

If you don't want people to laugh at you, don't hold laughable beliefs.

Re:How many does it seat? (1)

Rolgar (556636) | more than 3 years ago | (#37141314)

Interesting to point out the contraception issue in a story about the pope who actually published the document at the height of the sexual revolution that reaffirmed the Church's teaching on the issue in the 1960s, Humane Vitae (which I agree with). Of course, there were two other popes who were notable for their statements opposing contraception in the last century, Pius XI (Wrote a document opposing contraception less than two years after the Church of England became the first Christian organization to allow contraception among married people) and John Paul II who may have actually written Humane Vitae as a Cardinal before writing hundreds of pages (known as the Theology of the Body) and reading them in St. Peter's square during the first five years of his papacy.

some random crap up for auction (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37133868)

and this is relevant to the /. community how?

Re:some random crap up for auction (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134356)

Because Astronauts rode in it too. Or... Because Slashdot is filled with a bunch of fake atheists who somehow feel connected to the pope and see him as a holy man, even though they wouldn't publicly admit it.

Part of the reason why there are so many Catholic Sex Abuse jokes out there is that there were a lot of people non-catholic who still saw priests and bishops as being people who were better then everyone else, and these jokes (which are not funny) are ways to make them feel better that these people are no better then the rest of the population.

Re:some random crap up for auction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37134416)

Because Slashdot is filled with a bunch of fake atheists who somehow feel connected to the pope and see him as a holy man

Speaking of holey men, why does the Pope, the holiest of holes, need a bulletproof car? Doesn't he have faith in the lord to protect him? Does he not see it as god's calling him to heaven if he's shot dead or blown to bits by an assassin?

Just some questions to ponder. "No better than the rest of the population" indeed.

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:some random crap up for auction (1)

Skarecrow77 (1714214) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134564)

Couldn't he just pray that he don't get shot at? I'm working under the assumption that Catholics believe prayer works, even if I don't.

Maybe prayer can't contradict free will? I'll buy that. let's say that we can't pray away somebody's desire to shoot at the pope. how about the bullet. it has no free will, it just has to follow physics. Can prayer change physics to alter the path of the bullet? If it can, we're set. if it can't.. um... what CAN it do?

Re:some random crap up for auction (2)

tnk1 (899206) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134678)

From my Catholic upbringing, I was given to understand that prayer isn't a magical spell that puts up a force field around you or alters physics, its a request to someone who can do those things: God.

However, very frequently the answer to the request is: "No."

Or perhaps in this case: "You're the Pope, you can bloody well afford a bulletproof car."

Re:some random crap up for auction (3, Insightful)

Skarecrow77 (1714214) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134994)

So prayer is, at best, a +1 to your saving throw roll, but you don't know what the difficulty target is, nor what you rolled, so you'll never know if it actually helped at all?

It's a "maybe it'll help, can't hurt" sort of thing?

Re:some random crap up for auction (1)

NevarMore (248971) | more than 3 years ago | (#37135972)

It's a "maybe it'll help, can't hurt" sort of thing?

It does help on a purely psychological level. You lay out your problems, identify whats going well, whats not going well, note the problems of others, and ask for a steering hand to help you do your best to keep the good things good and do your part to make the bad things less bad. Its basically like having an honest closed door chat with your SCRUM master. It's relieving just to talk through whats going on.

Re:some random crap up for auction (1)

tehcyder (746570) | more than 3 years ago | (#37141270)

So prayer is, at best, a +1 to your saving throw roll, but you don't know what the difficulty target is, nor what you rolled, so you'll never know if it actually helped at all?

It's a "maybe it'll help, can't hurt" sort of thing?

More of an "eight year old child's magical thinking" sort of thing IMHO.

Re:some random crap up for auction (1)

newcastlejon (1483695) | more than 3 years ago | (#37135884)

"I hope that God exists; that there be order in the world. I pray that an exception be made for me just this once."

I don't know who said that but it sounds like Carlin. Personally I think if anyone governs the cosmos it's not God; it's The Lady.

Some people pray for the favor. Some don't. (1)

Joseph_Daniel_Zukige (807773) | more than 3 years ago | (#37137260)

For many people, the prayer for help is less for intervention than for teaching.

Part of the purpose is for the person praying to at least think far enough to figure out what kind of help is really necessary, and the usual result is help figuring out what to do.

Atheists can argue that meditation should be sufficient without having to brown-nose some non-existent supreme being, but that kind of misses the point.

Sometimes there are other things that happen, too, usually people (friends, strangers, even enemies) who provide just enough help, once the person praying has started solving the problem on his or her own. Atheists can argue that such people would likely help anyway, but that's also kind of missing the point.

Re:some random crap up for auction (4, Insightful)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134582)

Speaking of holey men, why does the Pope, the holiest of holes, need a bulletproof car? Doesn't he have faith in the lord to protect him?

There's some part about not testing your Lord. Also common sense, and the fact that crazy people try to kill popes [wikipedia.org] .

Just some questions to ponder. "No better than the rest of the population" indeed.

I don't recall that being a motto of the pope. Declaring yourself the infallible speaker for God would kind of shoot that to hell.

There's plenty of room to mock religion, the hats, dresses, opulent bling bling, and the whole Hitler youth thing are ample ground. You really don't need to go suggesting the pope is a hypocrite for not inviting assassination attempts.

Re:some random crap up for auction (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 3 years ago | (#37139630)

You really don't need to go suggesting the pope is a hypocrite for not inviting assassination attempts.

The argument is still valid. God loves you, he knows everything that happens to you and has the power to intervene. Unfortunately he doesn't work that way and will happily stand by while you are murdered. Therefore you can conclude:

A) He is an asshat, allowing people to suffer instead of helping them.

B) It doesn't matter how much you pray, dedicate your whole life to him, become his no. 1 guy on earth. He still won't do anything to help you, so there is little point worshipping him.

Re:some random crap up for auction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37134656)

They built it because that very pope took an would be assassin's bullet in an open air jeep that they had used previously. Besides, I've never really understood the reactionary argument that people interested in peace should prostate themselves in a manner fitting an example told on a right wing talk show.

Re:some random crap up for auction (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 3 years ago | (#37138176)

Why would he need faith like that? God rarely takes part in human's lives any more. That's what the entire sacrifice of Jesus was supposed to be about. But to answer your point, how do you know that creating a bullet proof car and getting the pope inside it wasn't the lord protecting him?

There is a story about a preacher in a rural community. One day after a lot of rain, the weather man said more rain is coming and it's likely the river would flood. Well, everyone in the community started evacuating and several stopped by the church to ask the preacher if he needed a ride or help with anything. the preacher always replied, "that's ok, I'm fine, the lord will take care of me".

Well, sure enough, more rain came and the river started flooding. Some people were about in boats looking for stranded people and they passed the church asking the preacher to jump in so he would be safe. Again the preacher would reply "that's ok, I'm fine, the lord will take care of me". The water rose and eventually the preacher had to climb onto the roof of the church.

Well, the next day, a helicopter came around and the people inside lowered a harness down to the preacher. They said, get in the harness, we will take you to safety. The preacher once again replied "that's ok, I'm fine, the lord will take care of me". And the flood waters kept rising until it eventually topped the roof of the church and the preacher drowned.

So the preacher is dead now, and he is in heaven and furious. An angel came to him and asked why he was so upset. The preacher said, I believed in god, I believed he would take care of me, and yet I still died. The angel said, don't be silly, he sent warning to your the river was going to flood and you ignored it. He sent warning to you and a ride out of trouble when it first started to flood and you ignored it. He sent a boat to pick you up after it was flooded and you ignored it. Finally, he sent a helicopter to rescue you and yet again you ignored it. You have free will, he cannot make you do anything.

The point is, just because something doesn't work the way you want it to work, doesn't mean divine intervention didn't play a hand in it. Of course it doesn't mean it did either, but it's a bit disingenuous to propose such a specific set of requirements else his faith is somehow in question.

Re:some random crap up for auction (1)

tehcyder (746570) | more than 3 years ago | (#37141222)

Speaking of holey men why does the Pope, the holiest of holes

Jesus tittyfucking Christ, I'm spoiled for choice between making an "altar boy arse-holey" or a "full of bullet-holey" joke.

I leave it as an exercise for the reader.

Re:some random crap up for auction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37134682)

and this is relevant to the /. community how?

Mostly because of the possibility that some smug jackass atheist wants to buy it just to desecrate it (for his/her weird definition of "desecrate") in public and claim it's "ironic". I'm certain the more vocal parts of Slashdot would be interested in that.

Re:some random crap up for auction (2)

D'Sphitz (699604) | more than 3 years ago | (#37137776)

I seriously doubt anyone would buy the popemobile just so they can destroy it, I imagine it will cost a fair amount of cash. And even if they did, it's just a fucking car, not some sacred idol, it can't be desecrated. Your persecution complex is cute though.

Re:some random crap up for auction (1)

Anonymous Psychopath (18031) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134816)

Dude, it's the frigging Popemobile. Get a grip.

Where Tech and Celebrity meet. (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 3 years ago | (#37135554)

and this is relevant to the /. community how?

The 20 ft. stetch limo conversion was completed in ten days.

In time for the Pope's vist to the UN, a Mass at Yankee Statium and a vist to the Vatican Pavilion at the New York World's Fair (where Michelangelo's "Pieta" was on display.)

This early Popemobile is quite interesting as an example of the intersection between technology and celebrity --- and surprisingly, in the wake of the Kennedy assasination, it doesn't appear to have had any significant armoring.

The stretched wheelbase is a massive 160" with an overall length of nearly 21 feet. Exterior step plates and handrails for security, additional interior seating for aides and prelates, a special seat for the Pontiff that can be raised and lowered, supplemental interior lighting, public address system, auxiliary power from a bank of seven batteries were only a few of the many detail changes.

Segway of Mother Theresa (3, Funny)

retroworks (652802) | more than 3 years ago | (#37133920)

For sale now, no reserve.

Re:Segway of Mother Theresa (1)

macraig (621737) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134014)

I'll bet that one is balance-challenged.

What's the "nerd" angle here? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37134018)

What's the "nerd" angle here? This is a tech site, not celebrity gossip or car talk.

Re:What's the "nerd" angle here? (2)

Talderas (1212466) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134854)

It's a highly customize automobile which means there's a lot of cool stuff that went into making it. Taking apart would be a dream of any gear-head nerd.

Or did you think that "nerd = computer stuff"?

Re:What's the "nerd" angle here? (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | more than 3 years ago | (#37136372)

Slashdot is all about IT these days. Or so a certain crowd has come to believe.

And the IT people don't even realize they don't 'own' computers or hardware in any way. But they think anything posted here has to be about their crappy job 'programming' web pages and putting more toner in the fucking LJ4 over in accounting.

Fuel? (1, Funny)

Rizimar (1986164) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134026)

Does it run on prayers? How many miles does it get per Hail Mary?

I don't think anybody really cares? (0)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134102)

I mean, maybe some other people care, but this is /.

Re:I don't think anybody really cares? (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134476)

And yet, he cared enough to let it be known that he doesn't care...

Re:I don't think anybody really cares? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37134686)

I hate it when people use that obviously flawed "argument." If a guy was running around showing off his turd, I'd tell him "nobody really cares about your turd." The fact that I responded doesn't mean that I necessarily care.

Re:I don't think anybody really cares? (1)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134812)

I guess by simply looking at it you tacitly agree that it's worth looking at or something...I think that's the gist of the argument.

Re:I don't think anybody really cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37136716)

Looking doesn't have to be intentional. Nobody's interested in goatse, but many have looked at it unintentionally.

Re:I don't think anybody really cares? (1)

Coren22 (1625475) | more than 3 years ago | (#37142544)

I, personally, and I am guessing you too are not interested in seeing it, but I assure you, Rule 34 still applies. Somewhere out there, someone enjoys that.

Re:I don't think anybody really cares? (1)

megrims (839585) | more than 3 years ago | (#37139104)

You're drawing attention to something that you profess not to care about. Ignoring it and saying nothing is usually a better response.

Re:I don't think anybody really cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37159318)

You're drawing attention to something that you profess not to care about. Ignoring it and saying nothing is usually a better response.

Passive resistance only works if you're Gandhi.

Another famous Car (1)

nthitz (840462) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134300)

Everybody's talkin' at me...I can't hear a word they're sayin'...just drivin' around in Jon Voight's car...

All i saw when i read the title was... (1)

kcwebmonkey (1351779) | more than 3 years ago | (#37134798)

Poopmobile!

Re:All i saw when i read the title was... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37140010)

I saw "Pimp Mobile"

To the popemobile! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37135370)

I would prefer the one with the aquarium.

Yo dawg, have a popemobile.

Faith in ... ? (1)

surfcow (169572) | more than 3 years ago | (#37135574)

Nothing says "faith in god"
like bullet-proof glass.

What bullet-proof glass? (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 3 years ago | (#37136210)

Nothing says "faith in god" like bullet-proof glass.

Look at the photographs. The Pope has no protection.

Following the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II in 1981, the popemobile was fitted with bulletproof glass on four sides. However, it was sometimes driven with open windows.

Popemobile [wikipedia.org]

Re:What bullet-proof glass? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37137158)

So you go out of your way to point out that he has no protection, and then link to an article that shows the vehicle with bulletproof glass.

Re:What bullet-proof glass? (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 3 years ago | (#37137708)

So you go out of your way to point out that he has no protection, and then link to an article that shows the vehicle with bulletproof glass.

Not the same vehicle and16 years later.

Faith is not belief in magic. (1)

Joseph_Daniel_Zukige (807773) | more than 3 years ago | (#37137288)

It has been noted above, but faith is supposed to be something that gets people to think about their problems and see what they can do for themselves first.

To the extent that atheism also helps people try to solve their own problems, atheism has value in God's universe.

Re:Faith is not belief in magic. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37137784)

If faith is not magic, why am I told to have faith that god will make things come out OK? It is "his plan" and all, so the predeterminism negates people thinking what they can do for themselves, does it not?
If it wasn't belief in magic(more or less) wouldn't religious people be saying "have faith in yourself because you will figure it out"?

Re:Faith in ... ? (1)

Coren22 (1625475) | more than 3 years ago | (#37142578)

If the president of the United States is truly the representitive of his people, he should take criticism of all types from the people, even if it is a bullet telling him he is doing it wrong.

Perhaps the Pope hated the bullet proof popemobile too, but his "secret service" (swiss guard) forced it on him to preserve him.

Well, you know the Vatican (1)

Lord_of_the_nerf (895604) | more than 3 years ago | (#37137168)

They're never ones to keep something old that was no longer relevant.

Burried the lead (1)

PyroMosh (287149) | more than 3 years ago | (#37138242)

This is /. I'm sure that there are far more people who are impressed with the fact that Apollo astronauts (including Apollo 11) rode in this car, than the fact that a religious leader did.

Why on earth did the pope angle get first billing here?

how to (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37138504)

How do you get a nun laid? Dress her up as a choir boy.

I swear officer . . . (1)

bedouin (248624) | more than 3 years ago | (#37148468)

The soiled little boys underwear was from the previous owner!

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