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Ask LinuxPPC Co-Founder Jason Haas

Roblimo posted more than 13 years ago | from the not-Lazarus-but-plays-him-on-the-Internet dept.

Linux 198

Jason Haas is co-founder, marketing director, and Web manager for LinuxPPC and an all-around good Linux guy. He's also majorly anti-drunk driving these days, because last March a drunk driver ran into his car and left it looking like this. Jason was left in only slightly better shape himself, but unlike his Honda, he eventually recovered (with major help and support from his wife, Cassie) and went back to work. Ask Jason what you will; about out-of-control SUVs (I don't think he likes them), Linux on PowerPCs (something he likes a lot) or anything else. Post your questions below. Tomorrow we'll forward 10 of the highest-moderated ones to him, and we'll expect his answers back in a week or so.

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descisions? (4)

garcia (6573) | more than 13 years ago | (#537126)

what made you decide to want to do LinuxPPC development and do you think that the Macintosh hardware platform is going to remain a major player in years to come?

Re:Wimpy cars? (1)

SamBeckett (96685) | more than 13 years ago | (#537127)

Have you learned your lesson, and bought a car that isn't quite such a tiny tin can?

Why would you even consider blaming that man? You think it is his fault when:

  1. He was just sitting at a red light?
  2. A drunk driver hit him?

The only thing that could have protected him from that wreck was a tank (and I mean a military tank, not an 81 buick). I suggest you apoligize for your comment.

Other Software (1)

Spit_Fire1 (247104) | more than 13 years ago | (#537128)

Will LinuxPPC be able to use all linux based software or just ones specfically for ppc. Will they release source apps or bins? Do you think that linuxppc will bring new users to mac hardware, take maco/s customers away from them or take linux customers and allow them to use macs?

great site for SUV haters... (1)

Kris Warkentin (15136) | more than 13 years ago | (#537129)

So Jason, what DO you think about SUVs? I saw this site a couple years ago - it cracks me up and I bet you would get a kick out of it too... []

Drunk Driving Penalties (3)

verbatim (18390) | more than 13 years ago | (#537130)

Since you were in what appears to be a very serious accident with a very serious idoit, do you feel that the drunk driving laws are good/bad and what do you think could/should be done to prevent accidents like the one you were involved with (if anything)? Also, what do you feel are the effects of alchohol on the average geek mind?


Re:Other Software (2)

garcia (6573) | more than 13 years ago | (#537131)

LinuxPPC has been around for a long time. There are already many apps ready to go. It is like any other architecture, yaeh you have to recompile them for that arch but the Linux programs will normally work.

It isn't going to take away anymore MacOS people as we take away Windows users...

Our friends at Apple... (3)

Soko (17987) | more than 13 years ago | (#537132)

With the imminent launch of OS/X, one would think that Apple has been a rather prickly bedfellow as of late.

Have they been open, honest and co-operative, or do they seem to view you and your group as something of a compeditor?

Drunk Drivers (1)

methodic (253493) | more than 13 years ago | (#537133)

I am a 19 year-old straightedge person (being straightedge means no drinking, no smoking and no drugs). I honestly believe I am this way because I've watched all these substances destroy my family and some of my friends.

I just wanted to know if your views of alcohol, in general, has changed after your accident or if you have joined any anti-drunk driving organisations (i.e. MADD)?

been a long way since Madison... (1)

lupa (218669) | more than 13 years ago | (#537134)

from a computer/Mac standpoint, how do you feel about your multi-faceted progress since your days in Madison?


LinuxPPC CD booting breakthrough (1)

Muad'Dave (255648) | more than 13 years ago | (#537135)

What was the breakthrough that allows your latest release to boot directly from the CD-ROM on a Macintosh? Is this something that you are willing to share with other Mac distributions, i.e. M68k-linux?

Commodity Hardware? (2)

superid (46543) | more than 13 years ago | (#537136)

I'm definitely spoiled rotten by the state of commodity PC hardware. I take it very much for granted that I have a vast choice of motherboards and processors to choose from.

I'm also PPC-clueless. Can you talk briefly about the current state of PPC hardware? (availability, capability, price, future roadmap)


Re:Wimpy cars? (1)

funkman (13736) | more than 13 years ago | (#537137)

OK Troll boy. So your saying that anyone who cannot afford a "tank" (or chooses to drive an economical or environmentally friendly car) deserves their fate when in an accident with an SUV?

SUVs and false sense of safety.. (1)

ebbv (34786) | more than 13 years ago | (#537138)

i have railed against SUVs and the falsely-held belief by many that they are somehow safer than other cars on slashdot and many other places. just about any time the topic comes up. but there seems to be little that can be done to combat the fad other than just trying to steer friends and relatives away from purchasing trucks and SUVs unnecessarily (trucks have genuine uses, but i fail to see any needs that a 3-ton SUV fills that a smaller and safer minivan or better yet, wagon, cannot.)

this is a social problem, it's a dangerous, stupid and wasteful fad. while i'm usually very pro-darwinism, owning an Audi TT myself, it's always a little disconcerting when an Excursion comes speeding up behind me when i'm stopped at a light.

the misconception that he is 'safer' in that excursion comes from the fact that he's safer than i am in that collision, but if he's not any more safe than he'd be if he was in say, an Accord, Camry or Taurus.

in fact, he's less safe, he's unable to stop in a reasonable distance, swerve around obstacles to avoid collisions, etc. add to that the fact that when two three ton vehicles collide the resulting impact is far more violent than say, a collision of two Festivas or even Mustangs.

what's your view, thoughts and suggestions on this issue?

Math intensive server stuff (4)

drenehtsral (29789) | more than 13 years ago | (#537139)

I'm working on (or more accurately about to start) a very math intensive client server system, where the server has to do a metric ass-load of calculations mostly on 64-bit signed integers on behalf of client machines. The data are all going to be in ram, and multi-cpu support is a good thing.
Would you recommend a PPC machine over a x86 machine for a task like this? I guess this is mainly a chipset/etc... question, but i have been unable to find that sort of information elsewhere, and i figure who better to ask, 'cause you probably have a decent gut-feeling for how the architecture works in practice on real-world data =:-)

Re:Wimpy cars? (1)

NineNine (235196) | more than 13 years ago | (#537140)

No, I didn't say 'deserve'. Just like a woman who goes to a party dressed scantily doesn't 'deserve' to be raped. It's just something that you can do to protect yourself if you do so choose. He chose not to, and drove a tiny little car and paid the price.

Re:LinuxPPC vs OS X? (1)

um... Lucas (13147) | more than 13 years ago | (#537141)

Ermmm... obviously OS X, because once it ships it'll be the default installed OS. Kind of like how IE kicked Netscape out of the market.

Benefits (2)

bluelip (123578) | more than 13 years ago | (#537142)

Besides putting linux on every available device with some computing power, what benefit does linux on the mac have? I've been away from Apple products for quite a while. Is there a specific reason to use them? (Better graphics? Sound support? ROI?) What about compatibility? Is byte ordering problematic?

Conspiracy theory (1)

JCCyC (179760) | more than 13 years ago | (#537143)

Do you suspect the SUV driver might have been a secret M$ or Intel agent? ;-P

Platform Issues (5)

IanCarlson (16476) | more than 13 years ago | (#537144)

A question:
  • Is LinuxPPC a viable alternative to x86 Linux? Can I run my department on a LinuxPPC-based server with the same peace-of-mind that I get on an i386-based box running Linux? Will I still enjoy the almost surrealistic uptimes I get with my current Linux server? Does the LinuxPPC code still suffer from chronic flakey-ness?

I'm currently looking into obtaining a PowerPC box to test out the current state of Linux on the PPC platform. Hopefully your answers will point me down the path of RISC utopia.

Will OSX make things easier? (1)

Lover's Arrival, The (267435) | more than 13 years ago | (#537145)

Hi, I have a Mac and a PC, so I am interested in Linuc for the PowerPC.

With OSX, with its Unix-like core, coming out for the Mac soon, will this make things easier for the Linux PowerPC project when it comes to Hardware drivers and generally fitting the OS to the machine? After all, in the future new models of the Mac will be optomised for a *nix-like OS, and I would have thought that this would make things better and easier for you.

(I am only guessing;)

LinuxPPC Lite? (2)

tenzig_112 (213387) | more than 13 years ago | (#537146)

Are there plans to release a distro of LinuxPPC specifically suited for PPC users left behind by Apple and OSX? Most desktop users are put off by a default kitchen-sink install. It seems that with those services turned off, maintenance and operation is a bit more friendly to Unix newbies.

hot flaming grapes []

OS X (3)

Auckerman (223266) | more than 13 years ago | (#537147)

How do you think a possible Feb OS X release date will affect acceptance of LinuxPCC among owners G3/G4's?

The Start (1)

bool (144199) | more than 13 years ago | (#537148)

What prompted the idea for LinuxPPC in the beginning and where do you see it going?

do { Work(); PayTaxes(); Eat(); Sleep(); } while (alive)

Re:Wimpy cars? (2)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 13 years ago | (#537149)

Well, there *is* something to be said for driving a slightly larger car -- I'd rather be in a Volvo in a crash than a Geo Metro anyday.


ATX motherboard availability? (4)

glrotate (300695) | more than 13 years ago | (#537150)

I think one thing that would foster Linux PPC adoption, and PPC in general would be a relatively cheap PPC motherboard. I remember IBM released their reference design some tine ago and there was some noise from 3rd parties about product anouncements, but nothing materialized. Does anyone know when we might see something?

Re:Wimpy cars? (1)

NineNine (235196) | more than 13 years ago | (#537151)

If it does, that'll be my fault for driving in a tank-prone area without a tank.

Why Now? (1)

Tymanthius (75808) | more than 13 years ago | (#537152)

I was reading the intro for this 'Hey, ask him' and it made it sound as though you didn't think about drunk driving until it affected you.

My question is: Why did it take that?

I'm not militant, but I've been known to knock my friends down rather than let them drive while under the influence of anything.


merge with RedHat? (5)

A moron (37050) | more than 13 years ago | (#537153)

I've tried LinuxPPC several times over the years and have actually been disappointed. It just hasn't seemed polished and LinuxPPC, the company, has had some serious customer service problems.

Have you ever thought about or actually talked to RedHat as making LinuxPPC the RedHat Distro for PPC?

This would provide you with extra resources to keep LinuxPPC up to date and cleaner.

LinuxPPC and Mac Hardware (1)

Baconator (240452) | more than 13 years ago | (#537154)

Let me start by saying that I have been using LinuxPPC heavily for over a year now, and have fould the experience very good.

That said, however, I don't think that LinuxPPC is very likely to encourage people to by Mac hardware. Rather, it gives new life to old hardware. Got an old PowerMac 8500 lying around? Too slow to do much of anything useful with MacOS? That's where LinuxPPC comes in. Mac hardware is just too expensive to buy for the purpose of running Linux on.

Realistically, OS X will not change this. OS X is seriously processor-intensive stuff. It's clearly workstation-oriented: the GUI is the selling point. LinuxPPC, on the other hand, is great on all kinds of hardware for all kinds of uses.

How do you deal with apples hardware controls? (1)

Bonker (243350) | more than 13 years ago | (#537155)

As a technicly oriented non-coded who uses a variety of platforms, I understand that of the biggest problems people have faced when designing non-Apple OS's for Apple hardware is the existance of Apple's proprietary boot-roms and in-processor features. As I understand it, these features have all but destroyed BeOS's chances on the Mac. What challenges from this sort of 'hardware control' does LinuxPPC overcome, if any?

On Driving Laws (2)

Voira (267049) | more than 13 years ago | (#537156)

I keep wondering about the legal ages for several things in this country (USA).
Driving age: 14-16
Legal sex age: 16-18 (?)
Marriage age: 15 (?)
Death penalty age: 14
Army age: 18
Voting age: 18
Drinking age: 21

It is amazing for how many things you are considered responsible enough for before you are allowed to drink.
That doesn't quite make much sense. Wouldn't it make much more sense having a legislation more European like? In Europe most countries have a legal drinking age 2 years lower than the driving age (Drink: 16, Drive: 18). What happens is that by the time you get to dive all the drinking hype is already gone and there are not so many accidents related to alcohol....
Would Americans trade one age for the other?

Just a thought

Re:Our friends at Apple... (1)

drjohn (35000) | more than 13 years ago | (#537157)

One specific example. The quicktime technology is now used on Windows as well as Mac Systems. But I can not view these same quicktime files on my LinuxPPC base G4, and have to reboot into MacOS.

I have followed Linux on Mac hardware since the early MkLinux. Is there any hope of Apple giving back to the Linux community

Support and POP (2)

danboid (300692) | more than 13 years ago | (#537158)

I bought LinuxPPC 2000 from your company when it was released and I was very disappointed by it, especially your technical support . I sent a number of e-mails to your support address regarding my problems, none of which got answered. I think its quite sad that, unlike the x86 distros who have to cater for an almost unlimited number of configurations, you can't get a distribution out that works properly on a standard iMac- which is surely one of the first things you should test it on! So could anyone out there reading this tell me how to get X setup for greater depths than 8 bit under LinuxPPC 2000 (first release- don't know what Xfree- 3.something). Also, whatever happened to IBMs POP boards?

Re:Math intensive server stuff (2)

Mithrandir (3459) | more than 13 years ago | (#537159)

When we looked at this (very large scale file compression and image munging system), the answer was Alpha. Best bang per buck and also the systems that surrounded it (bus architectures, supporting components etc etc). A little more expensive than x86 and a pain if you only have access to x86 binary libraries but definitely worth it.

If you are only doing integer work then probably an Athlon system would be better than PPC for raw number crunching. This is a rough gut feel based on using various friends' Macs and my own Athlon system in general use (doing lots of stuff like compiling etc). My feeling is the surrounding infrastructure such as the CPU bus make it more worthwhile - particularly if you can grab an Athlon with the 266MHz bus :)

Your Perception Before and After the Accident (5)

TheNecromancer (179644) | more than 13 years ago | (#537160)


First of all, I'd like to commend you and your wife for your courage and determination through your ordeal! I also hope they throw the book at the jerk who caused the accident!

My question is this: Do you find that your perception of the world and what your interests, passions and abilities are, different than before your accident? Has the accident changed your interests towards the computing industry?


Firestone tires (1)

AntiNorm (155641) | more than 13 years ago | (#537161)

Ask Jason what you will; about out-of-control SUVs (I don't think he likes them),

Does your car have Firestone tires?

Put your feet out and stop ... climb out and hang ...

Re:On Driving Laws (2)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 13 years ago | (#537162)

> It is amazing for how many things you are considered responsible enough for before you are allowed to drink.

That's because the system isn't based on rational premises; it's based on what the powerful want to enforce on the powerless.

BTW, did you know that voting age was 21 back during the Vietnam War, until people expressed outrage over the fact that
You're old enough for killin'

But not for votin'
-- Barry McGuire (IIRC)


Re:Drunk Drivers (goint further OT) (1)

XyouthX (194451) | more than 13 years ago | (#537163)

Do you actually believe that anyone would take up smoking if they knew what the consequences would be?
I'm sure the majority of people have heard about the consequences a bazillion of times, but not everybody realizes what they mean.

Three questions I guess (2)

EXTomar (78739) | more than 13 years ago | (#537164)

- I've wanted to mess around with a PowerPC platform hardware but unlike Intel hardware it seems to be very hard to find for realitively cheap. Any hints on how to jump into LinuxPPC without running out to CompUSA and buying a PowerCube?

- Got any feelings about OSX? Will there be any nifty widgets(graphic, hardware drivers, or other) that you will be modeling from OSX for LinuxPPC?

- Have you kept track of the person that crashed into you? I mean in the sense that you made sure that he was dealt with in the courts properly. I don't want to imply you are vengeful or anything but do you think they were treated properly(to lightly, to harshly or something in between)?

recovery time (1)

brad3378 (155304) | more than 13 years ago | (#537165)

I have a hard time remembering certain things if I don't have enough exposure.

How much of your programming skill do you think you've forgotten, and how long do you think it will take you to get back to your old speed?

Your accident lessons (4)

Spackler (223562) | more than 13 years ago | (#537166)

About a year and a half ago, my fiancée and I were in a horrible car crash as well. We were also in a small car (Nissan Sentra), and were hit head-on by an SUV. I crushed my femur, broke my hip, and 4 ribs (I walk pretty good now after 2 reconstruction surgeries). My fiancée (now my wife thank God) lost her spleen, 1/3 of her liver, compound fracture of her heel, crushed lungs, and on a respirator for 4 weeks in ICU before she started to come out of it. We are both still recovering (Someday, I'd like to stand up and have it not hurt!).

Things like this can teach you lessons, or destroy you. From that perspective, my question is: What were the biggest lessons you learned from it? (I ask that as someone who has gone through it, and learned a lot about what is important, and what is not.)
This is more of a life question than a geek one.


PS: Yes, we drive big trucks now (F-150), and I'd never own a small car, even if it were given to me!

Advantage? (1)

doonesbury (69634) | more than 13 years ago | (#537167)

As it stands right now, Linux on the Mac is kind of an odd bird; most people don't have a lot of *spare* Macs of PPC level or higher hanging around, and it's currently cheaper to spend one's cash on a dreaded Wintel box to run Linux that it is to spend cash on a Mac to do the same thing.

On top of that, when Macs aren't in the hands of "make this as easy as possible" guys (neophytes or people who don't care about anything but running such-and-such a program), Macs are quite often found in the hands of "graphics guys" - where, despite the fact that GIMP is great and all, there's not a ton of fantastic programs available. In other words, the majority of the Mac crowd just ain't Linux types, really.

So: when it comes down to brass tacks - where's the advantage for the average MacOS power user to use LinuxPPC over MacOS? Contrawise, where's the advantage of a Linux user to have a Mac box?

BSD-Linux mini-flame (2)

emil (695) | more than 13 years ago | (#537168)

Would it be possible to replace the BSD kernel in OS X with Linux, and have there been any serious discussions regarding this? I imagine you would be the point man in such an investigation.

Linux does seem to be a better choice, as it is more scalable, is about to get a journaled file system, and has a dazzling array of hardware support.

I would almost rather see Apple throw itself behind HURD than cause more fragmentation amongst the BSDs. It seems the deciding factor was the BSD liscense, and not any technical advantage (although I am probably wrong, and I don't have access to POWER equipment of any sort [not even an AS/400], so I am hardly authoritative).

I did follow the progress of your injury, and I hope your recovery is proceeding well and some good has come out of the experience.

Support for Nubus Macs (1)

empty (53267) | more than 13 years ago | (#537169)

Why are Nubus powerMacs (i.e., PM6100, 7100 and 8100) not supported by LinuxPPC?

I know that MkLinux [] supports them...but if MkLinux can, then theoretically so could LinuxPPC. Is the problem a technical problem or a resource problem (no one wants to do it...) or something else?

CHRP "Open Source" motherboards? (1)

rrwood (27261) | more than 13 years ago | (#537170)

There was a little noise made last year about IBM giving away just about everything you need to start manufacturing PPC CHRP motherboards: l [] tml [] []

I recall reading something on in which you guys indicated that you'd been talking/working with IBM about this prior to the public announcements, and that you guys were going to be supporting PPC systems based on these boards.

Soooo, what's up with that? When will I be able to pick up a reasonably cheap PPC motherboard, build up a nice system, and slap LinuxPPC on it?


Linux and Accessibility (5)

FourG (81910) | more than 13 years ago | (#537171)


During your recovery period, did you find the need to use any accessibility tools to accomplish tasks? If so, what were your impressions? Does Linux have the tools people with alternative interface needs (like text-to-speech) need to access their information?

Congrats on your recovery progress. I'm glad to see the world hasn't lost another good person to a drunk driver's carelessness.

Convergence or Divergence (1)

Omega996 (106762) | more than 13 years ago | (#537172)

Do you see LinuxPPC becoming more like its i386 brethren (more generic or uniform in hardware support), or taking advantage of some of the PPC hardware's special abilities (altivec on the G4, for example)? I know that linux on the PPC helped drive the frame buffer device for X-Windows, for example; do you see something similar happening for altivec or Firewire?

How does this woo the dedicated Mac User? (1)

solios (53048) | more than 13 years ago | (#537173)

First off, I'm a graphics geek. I passed my GWBASIC class in high school by staying after class and copying working assigments onto my disks. I make pretty pictures, and I'm poor. I grok the Linux ideal, am frustrated by the command line, and have neither the time nor the programming skills to "shut up and fix it". I administer my own network of Macs in addition to pixel-pushing. Consider me an educated end user- your target audience, if Linux is to make its way firmly into the desktop market. From my point of view, it doesn't have a chance in hell for years to come, and I shall explain why.

Let's see... from personal experience, I'm anti-Linux PPC. Yes, the disk boots... if you could call it that. On a G3/400 with 384 megs of RAM, it boots and hangs. On a G3/400 Powerbook (firewire) with 128 megs of RAM, DVD, and everything but the kitchen sink, it shits itself trying to load and has repeated HDA errors, aud infiintum.

Why tell the universe that the product boots on CD when this likely applies only to specific hardware? Where's the list of "it boots on THIS configuration"?

There's really no reason for me to use this over Debian, which at least boots and gets me into a formatting utility- on the Y2K powerbook, from the CD. The problem with Debian PPC, something I haven't noticed with Linux PPC because the distro barfs before it gets this far, is that the install process is, in a word, archaic. In a few more words, it's confusing as fuck, has no help of any kind, is totally ass backwards and made me laugh out loud. We're dealing with Mac hardware here folks.... the MacOS installer is the easiest damned thing in the friggin' UNIVERSE to use- start off of the CD, install on whatever drive has the free space. Or hose a drive and split it up any way you want, then install. Oh, and you have full UI functionality while you're doing this- so up until you hit the pretty "format" button, you can save your data by moving it to another hard drive or a network disk. Shit, you can install the entire OS onto an existing disk without harming any existing anything- if you have the space.

The point is, Mac users expect this. Linux users probably got their start on the PC- and considering the cheap cost of hardware, there's no real point to the vast majority of them crossing over to the Mac. So I'm assuming this is being presented as an alternative for Mac users who are interested in Linux but don't want to buy a PC... or who tried MOSX and barfed. So why shoot yourselves in the face with disks that "kinda sorta" boot, on "all PPC macs" (save my Pismo, thank you), and then expect Mac users to spend the time figuring out how to Make Linux Go when there current operating system Just Works?

I'll start running Linux fulltime as soon as...
1. It installs as easily as MacOS. [as in, I push a button and it does the rest for me, or I can tinker to my hearts content. I shouldn't be worrying about partition numbers and boot blocks and hard drive allocation blocks and the partridge in a pear tree.]
2. A distro comes packaged with a GUI that:
A. Doesn't look like Windows.
B. Has pop-up folders.
C. Has a control strip.
D. Has the equivalent of an Apple Menu and an Application Menu.
E. Has universal drag and drop.
F. Comes with anti-aliased fonts, color management comparable to colorsynch, and utilities that make managing internet and network settings as easy as the present MacOS.
3. I can do everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) I can do in Photoshop in GIMP.

still drive a honda? (1)

brad3378 (155304) | more than 13 years ago | (#537174)

Just wondering if you are sticking with a Honda or if you've moved on to driving something larger (larger usually means safer).

Whazzup with MK? (1)

rf600r (236081) | more than 13 years ago | (#537175)

Any idea what's up with the ole' MKLinux project?

Will LinuxPPC get stronger or weaker? (1)

TheLittleVoices (170272) | more than 13 years ago | (#537176)

I was just wondering what road the LinuxPPC development team would take with the introduction of Mac OSX. Before it was either choose the Mac interface or the command line (LinuxPPC or BSD) but now people can get the best of both worlds with the introduction of Mac OSX.

Do you see LinuxPPC getting stronger or weaker in both the Mac market and the embedded market as Apple finalizes it's NeXT great OS? Do you see yourself combining efforts with Apple in any way including porting applications such as star office?

By the way, great job!

Permanent Effects (1)

Saint Nobody (21391) | more than 13 years ago | (#537177)

<p>There's a lot of questions here regarding the accident itself, or it's psychological/emotional consequences, but i'm curious about the physical consequences, too.</p>
<p>How has the accident changed you, in terms of permanent physical damage, any psychological damage, and just about anything else?</p>
<p>I would imagine that something as drastic as that car accident would change your life radically and permanently in many ways.</p>

Linux PPC & MacOS X (3)

maggard (5579) | more than 13 years ago | (#537178)

Jason -

What's your take on MacOS X? As the main point-person on the biggest other Mac-based *nix I'm sure you've been keeping track of it. How do you consider what's coming out of Apple as an OS, specifically as a *nix implementation?

Next, has Apple's open-sourcing Darwin been of any advantage to Linux PPC? Has someone ever popped into their code & looked up how they handled an point or what their solution was to a Mac-specific issue?

Back to your own stuff, where do you see Linux PPC going as regards to the other linuxen? Any stuff you see as being unique strengths of Linux PPC (aside from it's hardware)?

Finally, what issues do you regularly run into being on a non-X86 platform? What could developers do to improve portability for you? What's your "I-wish-they'd" list look like?

-- Michael

Re:Permanent Effects (1)

Saint Nobody (21391) | more than 13 years ago | (#537179)

i'm dumb. i didn't set the damn thing to HTML formatted...

There's a lot of questions here regarding the accident itself, or it's psychological/emotional consequences, but i'm curious about the physical consequences, too.

How has the accident changed you, in terms of permanent physical damage, any psychological damage, and just about anything else?

I would imagine that something as drastic as that car accident would change your life radically and permanently in many ways.

Re:Drunk Drivers (goint further OT) (1)

Peter Dyck (201979) | more than 13 years ago | (#537180)

Are you serious?

I drink alcohol and occasionally smoke both tobacco and marijuana.

Having lost an uncle to a liver failure (he was a heavy drinker) and having a friend with lung emphyzema I have no illusions about what booze and tobacco can do to me. However, it's a risk I'm willing to take to make this shitty life a bit more pleasurable.

Re:Support and POP (1)

Malic (15038) | more than 13 years ago | (#537181)

Oh, I will second that! Support from is awful. Truly a black hole with SMTP pointing at it. D/L'ing the Yellow Dog ISO is on my list of things to do in January.

PPC a 'minority' processor (1)

fatphil (181876) | more than 13 years ago | (#537182)

How do you rate the following as reasons for the PPCs lower market share:
- Apple's restrictive (often non-existant) licensing/OEM policy.
- Linux only reaching PPC relatively recently.
- could linux have saved the PPC from its unfair minority fate?

(who happily runs AlphaLinux on another 'minority' CPU)
-- Real Men Don't Use Porn. -- Morality In Media Billboards

What do you mean by *KNOW*? (1)

FatSean (18753) | more than 13 years ago | (#537183)

Shit, in Australia they have huge signs that say "Smoking Kills" at the counter in convenience stores, but people still smoke!

What else can society do to discourage this behaviour? Nothing! People KNOW it's dangerous. People know eating high-fat foods in dangerous, as is speeding, and about a bazillion other things commonly done.

The statistics are there, the odds are there, and people keep rolling the dice.

SUV's are great - for a certain audience (2)

DG (989) | more than 13 years ago | (#537184)

I think that SUV's are great vehicles - for a certain audience. The problem is that people are buying them for the "wrong" reasons.

I have a 1991 Chev Suburban 2WD. I also have an Eagle Talon race car, and the trailer it fits on. The 'burban is the tow vehicle.

For long haul trips hauling a race car, three sets of tires, enough gas for the weekend, tools, spares, and all the other miscellanious sundry required, nothing beats a great big SUV. In fact, I'm in the market for a new one, and I'm having trouble finding one I consider "big enough".

But I'm not the problem here. The problem is those that buy an SUV in the belief that it renders them invincible to weather conditions. The soccer moms roaring down an unplowed Interstate at 80 MPH.

There is an element of truth here - I drive race cars, right? So I took the 'burban out onto a snowy parking lot, to see how easy it was to slide it around, what braking distances were like, and so on. There's no doubt in my mind that the limits in adverse weather are quite a bit higher in an SUV than in a "normal" passenger car. This means that an SUV in the hands of the blissfully ignorent is much less likely to lose control.

However, once control is lost, the laws of physics dictate that a heavy SUV moving at high speed will have a lot more energy and momentum to dissipate in the crash, which means a lot more damage - especially if the SUV hits a smaller vehicle.

Note that THIS is nothing new either - look at what happens when car meets semi - but your average truck driver is much more competant than Ms Soccer Mom.

The problem here is not the SUVs. The problem is people who don't understand the limits of their vehicles, and who drive in excess of those limits (or while talking on the cell phone, or whatever) Idiocy is not limited to SUV drivers.

I'll give you an example. When the tow rig is fully loaded up, the stopping distances get pretty long (trailer brakes notwithstanding) So I leave a correspondingly longer distance between myself and the vehicle in front of me - the idea being that if the car in front of me stops NOW, that I have time to react and get the rig stopped. Well, that buffer space has to be the most attractive thing on the road, because I can't count the number of times that guys in little cars (with much shorter stopping distances than the rig) will move into that buffer space. You do that, and you have taken your own life into your hands, because if you stop before I can re-establish the buffer, then all 10,000lbs of me will be eating your rear bumper if you stop.

Driving is an *active process*, but far too many people treat it as a passive routine. That's your problem.

One final point - I don't have the details about Jason's accident, but I know that every single time I cross an intersection my eyes are up checking the crosstreets for someone approaching too quickly WELL before I enter the intersection myself; green light be dammed. That extra little bit of situational awareness has saved my bacon on more than one occasion. Jason may have been able to do the same.

Assume that everyone on the road is **actively trying to kill you**, drive accordingly, and you'll never have an accident.


What about caffine? (1)

FatSean (18753) | more than 13 years ago | (#537185)

Get a little wired on coffee and hop behind, no problem right?

Re:Platform Issues (1)

thrig (36791) | more than 13 years ago | (#537186)

You may still encounter niggling issues when installing and/or attempting to customize a Linux PPC box-- in my experience, this usually has to do with X Windows (which a "real" server probably shouldn't be running) or issues with building your own custom kernel-- usually programs complaining about modules that got evicted during the make config stage. Nothing someone who knows linux well should be tripped up by.

That being said, I have Linux PPC running on a old 180 MHz Apple clone, running X Windows for me, an AppleShare server for about 25 users, development Apache webserver, samba, and whatever else I might be fooling around with:

$ uptime
10:28am up 126 days, 9:46, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

I threw out Gnome and KDE a few years ago for fvwm, which preforms much better, especially on an old crappy machine like mine.

Life as a minority CPU (1)

rrwood (27261) | more than 13 years ago | (#537187)

Given the overwhelming majority of x86 boxen out there, I don't think it's unreasonable to state that PPC systems are viewed as second-class citizens by most developers. (Major kudos to Loki for supporting PPC in their Linux ports of interactive realtime multimedia applications.)

Given that Open Source programmers tend to have limited time and even more limited access to machines that are not sitting in their bedroom/office/whatever, how hard has it been to convince developers to support PPC systems? And for that matter, how much of a pain-in-the-ass is it to support PPC? (endian issues is about all that comes to mind)

And while we're discussing the nightmarish complexity of assembling and maintaining all the bits and pieces that comprise a Linux system, what's it like putting together a complete distribution anyway?


Jason, I have only one question to ask: (1)

AFCArchvile (221494) | more than 13 years ago | (#537188)


With OS X being based on BSD, why even bother continuing development on LinuxPPC? BSD will be many times more stable, and will do nearly everything that LinuxPPC can, only better, more efficiently, and more reliably.

Re:Math intensive server stuff [thanks =:-)] (1)

drenehtsral (29789) | more than 13 years ago | (#537189)

Thanks. My current two test-bed machines are an Athlon 750 and a Dual Pentium III 800. I can't wait for the dual athlons to come out =:-)

But the Camaro is still faster! (1)

FatSean (18753) | more than 13 years ago | (#537190)

ha ha ha

On the TCO of PPCL (1)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 13 years ago | (#537191)

My question:

Is it worth the cost to have a Mac running PPC Linux? I have been considering buying a Mac of some sort to run Linux on, but for the cost of a decent Mac I could build (At least) two blazing fast AMD PCs.

The difference, of course, is in that G4 processor. Do you feel that the G4 (Or even the G3 on an iMac.) processor, combined with Linux, offers the power to match the cost?

PPC (Apple Hardware) Support - LinuxPPC vs BeOS (2)

TJPile (220972) | more than 13 years ago | (#537192)

Apple all but killed future support for the BeOS on PPC hardware when it quit providing the technical specs on the new motherboard architectures, and etc. LinuxPPC overcame this with, in my opinion, far fewer resources than Be Inc. Maybe it's a testiment to each OS's user devotion, or OpenSource vs 'ClosedSource', I don't know. My question is, why do you think LinuxPPC was able to successfully continue supporting the newer hardware from Apple when Be couldn't? Also, do you think there may be the posibility of technology sharing between Be Inc. and LinuxPPC?

Re:Wimpy cars? (1)

MissingFrame (205666) | more than 13 years ago | (#537193)

I personally like to let a little air out of the SUV tires, since they've obviously chosen to put themselves in danger that way.

Re:On Driving Laws (1)

brad3378 (155304) | more than 13 years ago | (#537194)

&gt Would Americans trade one age for the other?

Interesting Proposal. I'd be curious to see how others feel about it, but until somebody convinces me otherwise, I'd be willing to bet that it would not work as well in the USA as the current system.

To back up my argument, I'd like to point out that impaired drivers are not always under the influence of Alcohol. Other drugs such as "X" are becoming much more popular these days, although I must admit I don't have any statistics to make claims about the most dangerous drugs behind the wheel.

I definitely wouldn't consider myself to be a typical American, or for that matter even a typical Slashdotter, but as a former drunk driver myself, I don't think that a higher drinking age would have stopped me since I was about 23 when I started drinking regularly, and about 24 before starting to drive home knowing that I was probably above the legal limit of .10% (about 5 drinks).

I have been to Europe, and I can attest to your claim that young Europeans have a different drinking Mentality. Sure, some do Binge drink like Americans, but overall, Europeans have much better "buzz control". Although Alcohol in Europe is cheaper than Pepsi (and sometimes water), They know when to stop.

I do agree with you that Hype is a major contributor to the problem. America probably even has the best Beer commericals in the world, but I don't think the answer to the problem is to lower the drinking age. The answer is to have drinkers become more responsible drinkers. Unfortunately it is difficult to force people to be responsible for their actions until after they get caught breaking the rules.

Re:Math intensive server stuff (2)

X (1235) | more than 13 years ago | (#537195)

I'd say he'd definitely be better off with a chip which can do 64-bit integer arithmetic (assuming his comments about 64-bit integers are correct) in a single cycle. That means basically Alpha, Sparc, and MIPS (there are loads of other options, but these are the closes to commidity chips, and I use that term loosely ;-). Bang for the buck wise, I'd say Alpha is probably the best of those three.

Things may change fairly quickly with the release of Intel's IA64 platform however. Whatever it's shortcomings, I bet it'll kick but in 64-bit integer arithmetic.

Re:Platform Issues (1)

pungent (78249) | more than 13 years ago | (#537196)

This from an Apple 8500 that has been acting as name server for quite some time:

LinuxPPC June 1999
Kernel 2.2.6-15apmac on a ppc

1:04pm up 52 days, 21:06, 1 user, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01

Which is pretty good since it isn't even on a surge supressor much less a UPS.

kernel compiling problems are pretty much noexistant with 2.2.18 now since most patches specific to ppc have been moved in.

In short: most stuff works/compiles for ppc though there are always some lingering problems with an architecture shift. Installation is arguably not as smooth as i386 machines. At least we have yaboot and ybin otherwise we would be lost on new world hardware (just about anything that isn't beige).

For 64-bit integer math: neither (2)

X (1235) | more than 13 years ago | (#537197)

If you're doing mostly 64-bit integer math, you'll wan't an ISA that supports operations on 64-bit integers. Standard PPC and x86 chips do not have that (IBM has some 64-bit PPC chips/systems out there).

I think you'll find Alpha will kick butt, with Sparc being another potential contender (probably too pricy for the net benefit).

PPC experience (1)

scharkalvin (72228) | more than 13 years ago | (#537198)

Where I used to work we had evaluated Windows NT on some Motorola PPC boxes. I don't remember the exact model but they were in boxes looking alot like the old Dell Dimension cases, MB had multiple PCI slots, SCSI and sound on board. After MS dropped PPC support for NT I got to try and install Linux on these boxes. The hardest part was figuring out which boot floppy image to download and how to tell the bios to boot from the floppy! Anyway it seems that there are many custom PPC systems how do you get the installer to deal with this?

Hope you are recovering well and sue the bastards ass off! No way you should have to dig into your pockets to pay to make yourself whole again!

iBook and LinuxPPC (3)

X (1235) | more than 13 years ago | (#537199)

I got my SO an iBook (with wireless LAN) for Christmas. She's pretty happy with it, but I've been considering putting Linux on it. She's used Linux on my computer without much difficulty, so I'm not so concerned about usability issues, but I am concerned about hardware issues, and of course the ability to dual boot. I checked out LinuxPPC's site, and dual boot seems like a manageable issue, but I was wondering if you could comment on iBook hardware support.

in the beginning... (1)

Lycestra (16353) | more than 13 years ago | (#537200)

How did you get started in computers? And why Mac hardware as opposed to x86 or Amiga?

GenX tend to have interesting stories of computers in the 70s-80s.

MacOS Emulation (1)

rrwood (27261) | more than 13 years ago | (#537201)

As many users of VMWare and other similar backwards-compatibility-environment tools will attest, it's nice to be able to run applications written for a different OS within a Linux environment. Fortunately for LinuxPPC fans who want to run MacOS apps, you can do the same sort of thing right now using Mac-on-Linux, and if they ever make it out of Beta, you'll eventually be able to use SheepShaver.

My question is to what degree do you think the existence of tools like Mac-on-Linux actually further the Worldwide Domination by Linux. Along the same line of thought, who then do you see as your target audience/customers?


Re:Math intensive server stuff (5)

Smitty825 (114634) | more than 13 years ago | (#537202)

One other important thing to ask is the state of the GCC complier for the PowerPC Platform. IIRC, it isn't as efficient as the ones available for the x86 and Alpha platforms. How much would LinuxPPC benefit from an optimized compiler and what sort of performance could be expected from LinuxPPC compared to Linux86/Alpha/others?

A case of "prisonners dilemna" (1)

renoX (11677) | more than 13 years ago | (#537203)

Yes, but this quite a simplification.

Because if everybody starts driving heavier cars, you go back to the beginning.. a classic "prisonners dilemna" I would say.

And its the nature which loose if everybody starts using heavier cars, because heavier cars needs more energy..
Of course it supposes that people do care about ecology which is quite doubtfull for the "average american".. (we're on /. right?)

PS: this is not a flame, just what anyone can deduce from the average energy-consumption per man in the USA..

Re:BSD-Linux mini-flame (1)

Knobby (71829) | more than 13 years ago | (#537204)

I would almost rather see Apple throw itself behind HURD than cause more fragmentation amongst the BSDs.

Mac OS X does not use the BSD kernel. It uses the Mach kernel, just like HURD I believe..

As for the Linux replacing BSD question, forget it.. Mac OS X is an upgraded version of the NeXT OS, and the developers that Apple has working on this project are comfortable with the BSD layer. I personally run OS X PB on a B&W G3 and am constantly amazed. The interface is still a little slower than OS 9 and earlier, but the stabilty si very very nice. (It's funny, I can remember the last time my PowerBook crashed running OS 8.6.)

Re:PPC (Apple Hardware) Support - LinuxPPC vs BeOS (1)

-kevin- (90281) | more than 13 years ago | (#537205)

I was wondering about this myself...

Accessibility of Linux on the Mac (1)

jpsc (107113) | more than 13 years ago | (#537206)

The Mac and its respective proprietary OS are known for their ease of use in schools and for the disabled. Applications' accessibility, or their ability to be used by disabled users (e.g., visually impaired individuals) and users who speak something other than English, is something that we Linux users and developers tend not to think about.
  • Have you or anyone else at LinuxPPC thought about how to make Linux on the Mac as competitive (with the proprietary software bundled with Macs) and useful in the accessibility arena as in all others?
  • Do you agree with the idea that in order to ensure widespread use of Linux for the Mac (e.g., in schools) you should consider accessibility?
  • What could you reasonably do to increase the accessibility of your distro?
  • Do you agree with the idea that in order to fully live up to the notion of "free as in speech software for everyone" we must include non-sighted and otherwise disabled users?


JP Schnapper-Casteras

P.S.: Just so you know that your answer to this question will actually result in something, I should let you know that in a few months I'm going to be organizing around a dozen different workgroups that will focus on topics such as GNOME, KDE, and X accessibility, Braille, etc. If you are interested see Project Ocularis [] , the announcement of the Linux Accessibility Conference in March [] , this summary about Linux accessibility [] , or this longer editorial [] on the potential of free software for the visually impaired.

If you want to make sure my project (Project Ocularis) and I are legitimate see this reference at Sun's web site [] , this one a [] , or this one on [] , or this interview on American Council of the Blind radio [] .

Well, because... (1)

Pope (17780) | more than 13 years ago | (#537207)

OS X won't run well on older Mac hardware, whereas LinuxPPC will.
I've been dual booting OS X and MacOS 9 on a G4 with the public beta, and if you're a Mac guy with a spare older machine sitting around that you wanna get your hands dirty with *nix, it's not going to be OS X.


Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!

Re:SUV's are great - for a certain audience (1)

cassie_haas (167147) | more than 13 years ago | (#537208)

The details (which you should've bothered to find out before posting such a passionate, but wrongheaded paean to SUVs and stupidity): Jason was sitting at a red light when the drunk idiot in the SUV attempted to drive *through* his car. There is not really anything one can do when one is innocently sitting at a red light, in terms of safety. The only actions you can control are your own. Your advice is good, but useless, in this case. cassandra

Re:still drive a honda? (1)

cassie_haas (167147) | more than 13 years ago | (#537209)

We drive a 2000 Honda Accord now, which has many more safety features than the 1989 Honda Civic that Jason drove previous to the accident. Yes, it *is* a bit larger. cassandra

Re:LinuxPPC to get LILO? (1)

um... Lucas (13147) | more than 13 years ago | (#537210)

Yeah... i was rather pissed that though LinuxPPC installed fine on the first shot on my Umax C500 mac clone (180 MHz PPC 603e), since the box didn't have ethernet onboard, and since LinuxPPC didn't supply a driver for my Asante ethernet card, it turned into a rather useless install...

Oh well... in the end things worked out... Now i've a 7100 with VideoVision to do video capture, an Athlon/Linux system to act as the server, and the Umax machine to be the edittor... Sweet little setup thanks to the 100 mbps connection between the later two.

But really... IF you're going to run linux, at this point i'm assuming it should be run on only x86 hardware, unless you're wanting to get your hands really dirty coaxing it to run...

Hey..:) (1)

Fixer (35500) | more than 13 years ago | (#537211)

Jason, I just read the entirety of your significant other's journals, and your own. I can only say that I haven't ever read anything quite so heartwrenching and yet, hopeful at the same time. You've got a wonderful wife, cherish her.

My only question is that, after all that's happened, do you feel yourself again?

Altivec and MP G4's? (4)

esome (166227) | more than 13 years ago | (#537212)

ok, newbie questions but:

1)How much can a PPC linux distro can benefit from Altivec optimization?

2)Does LinuxPPC enjoy the same degree of improved performance from additional processors that OS-X does?

flame away...

Re:Why Now? (1)

cassie_haas (167147) | more than 13 years ago | (#537213)

Your question is good, but how does one "think" about drunk driving? In our daily lives, previous to the accident, we would "think" about drunk driving by: walking to our favorite bar, or taking a cab, rather than taking the risk of driving. Or, conversely, drinking at home. The person who hit Jason was a total stranger. If he'd been a friend, perhaps we could have controlled whether he got behind the wheel of his monster vehicle. As he wasn't, we didn't. As it stands, we are much more aware of the menace of drunk driving, sure. But Jason's accident has made us more aware of other things, too, such as traumatic brain injury. How often do you think about such things as breast cancer, or being mugged? Would you be more aware of it if it were to happen to you? Would seem less abstract? It sometimes takes traumatic events to place things on a person's internal map.

Re:Three questions I guess (1)

thrig (36791) | more than 13 years ago | (#537214)

For cheap, you might root around in used hardware or school surplus areas for old Macs; just be sure to check that the hardware you are buying is supported by Linux PPC first: []

P.S. anything with 'Performa' in it's name is bad.

PowerPC Open Platform & SMP (1) (184378) | more than 13 years ago | (#537215)


What is the status of the PowerPC Open Platform [] ? It's been out for a little while now, and I seem to recall that there was at least one manufacturer who was planning on making POP-based PCs. Do these machines exist as a commercial product? Will they/do they run LinuxPPC?

What is the current state of SMP on LinuxPPC? Are there many SMP PPC machines (beyond the few Mac MP machines) that will run LinuxPPC? Does SMP with G3 processors work, or does one need to use 604 or G4 processors?

Re:What about caffine? (1)

FatSean (18753) | more than 13 years ago | (#537216)


I was wondering if he felt driving while on caffine is OK...

Cause I know a few people who get edgy and irritable on the stuff, making "road rage" much more likely.

Still may have been able to avoid it... (1)

DG (989) | more than 13 years ago | (#537217)

Hi Cassie, good to see someone with authority commenting. Your journal entries made fascinating reading, and I'm glad to see you both came through OK.

But as for the "stopped at red light" scenario, Jason *still* may have been able to evade the accident. If he had been watching his mirrors, he may have been able to see the vehicle coming, and get out of the way.

No, I'm not on crack. In fact, a demonstration of this very manouever is the centerpoint of a TV commercial for the Young Drivers of Canada driving school.

After a while, this all becomes reflexive. Step on the brake, check the mirrors. Stopped at the light, check the light, check the mirrors, check the light, back to the mirrors... etc.

This is not to say that Jason is *at fault* for the accident - a certain drunk bastard bears that responsibility. But neither is he completely innocent either. When you go out on the road, you place yourself in harm's way. If you do not remain aware of your surroundings and maintain a level of readiness to react to changes in your surroundings, then you are placing a measure of your security into the hands of others - and those others tend to be mainly idiots.

You'll note the numbers of "may"s in the above. It's quite possible that he'd've gotten hit no matter what he tried to do. But the description I remember made no note of _any_ attempt at evasive action (although his memory of the event may be at fault here) Ask him. If the answer was "I didn't even see him coming" then you've found your answer.

In any case, a drunk idiot in an SUV is a drunk idiot - the vehicle he's driving makes little difference. You'd be just as well served railing against the evils of semis, busses, and front-end-loaders with drunks behind the wheel.

Irresponsible automobile manufacturers (2)

Knight (10458) | more than 13 years ago | (#537218)

I know this has already been adressed to a small degree in this thread, but not well, and I apologize if this comment seems insensitive or off-topic, but I would be interested to know your opinion.

I agree that SUVs are very dangerous on roads, and it seems that poor drivers are often at the wheel. However, Honda is famous for (at least during the 80's and early 90's) making cars extremely light to improve fuel efficiency. Kia and Hyundai currently do this. This seems extremely irresponsible to me. While these cars can be made in such a way that they do not crush the passenger or driver (which it appears was not the case with your Honda, unfortunately), they still cannot eliminate the biggest problem with lightweight vehicles: instant acceleration. When a light car is struck by a medium to large vehicle (say, 3300 to 4000 lbs.), it accelerates instantly much faster than it would have if it weighed just a bit more. Depending on speed and many other factors, just 500 lbs. can mean the difference between 8 and 12 g-forces. That's a big difference. My car (a 1994 cavalier with a V6) was rear-ended by another vehicle going 55 mph while my vehicle was traveling at 5-7 mph. I was not injured. My sister's Toyota Celica was hit by a car going only 30 mph in front of our house. My dad and I spent 15 minutes tearing the door off to get her out, because the car was thoroughly crushed. Luckily, she recovered in a few weeks, but some people aren't so lucky. I realize that many people are convinced that Asian vehicles are more reliable, nicer, etc.; but they are designed in countries where speeds over 40 mph are very rare, and as such, they often cannot handle a collision that isn't bumper-to-bumper at low speed. I know I'm not giving any empirical evidence here, and I admit that a large part of the problem are vehicles like Suburbans and Excursions, but I won't be caught driving a Honda/Toyota/Nissan or any product of their divisions, because I have seen what happens to them in accidents.

One more bit of info about me: I have, in the past, raced cars semi-professionally. Mostly, I drag-raced, but I also raced a few races at PIR. I've been in my share of wrecks, including an end-over-end incident at 240+ mph at a dragstrip. We can blame the SUVs, but that's only part of the problem, because if I can walk away from that wreck, Japan can definitely add a few pounds of metal to their cars for our safety. I have no desire to be surrounded by plastic when my life is on the line.

Rushed to market. (1)

Usquebaugh (230216) | more than 13 years ago | (#537219)

Do you feel Linux on the PPC was pushed into the market place too soon?

I have an IMAC DV and under both LinuxPPC and SuSE/PPC the hardware is still not recognised/supported.

I feel that if LinuxPPC concentrated on the newer machines your market share would increase dramatically.

Re:On Driving Laws (1)

waketurbulence (252138) | more than 13 years ago | (#537220)

The problem runs deeper than that. US is a driving culture. With suburban sprawl getting worse every year cars are necessary part of everyday life. Public transportation is largely disfunctional, pedestrians are miserable and everyone is expected to drive. Otherwise you are basically imprisoned in one location.

Once you start with this background the rest becomes inevitable. Teenagers will need their driving licenses ASAP so they (and their parents who are sick and tired of chaeuffering them around) can have their freedom. When 16 year olds have access to automobiles long before they are entrusted with alcohol/voting and other adult responsibilites, it is not surprising that their maturity level lags far behind their capability for damage.

Finally government-subsidized fuel means that small cars are not attractive for most people. (Gas costs upto 4 times as much in Europe) Instead the combination of weak environmental laws, CAFE regulations which allows SUVs to get away with abysmal fuel economy and standard corporate practices from Detroit's big three leads to proliferation of soccer moms driving 8000lb SUVs.


How to make any cd bootable on a mac (1)

Duck0987 (130663) | more than 13 years ago | (#537221)

After installing a debian port on a 68k macintosh it would not be hard to make the disk bootable. All you need is a working MacOS system folder burnt on to a cd that has be made as a bootable cd, if you use toast fo the burning this is very simple just check the bootable option. And if you want to compleatly automate the process all you would need to do is put the penguin loader, preferences in the startup folder inside the system folder and have the preferences pointed at the kernal, and bang you hold down 'c' on boot and you are ready to go

unless anyone sees why this wouldn't work

Re:Still may have been able to avoid it... (1)

schon (31600) | more than 13 years ago | (#537222)

An interesting aside to this..

I just bought a new car (2001 Neon, for the curious..:o).. the first day we had it, I almost got smoked from behind while stopped at a light..

The guy behind me (a taxi) stopped late, and the camaro behind him couldn't stop in time.. I heard the screech of brakes, and immediately moved forward out of the way.. a second later the taxi's front fender was where my back seat would have been..

I've never had any defensive driving courses, but (in my mind) it makes sense to leave room between you and the guy in front of you.

My first vehicle was a motorcycle, and the friend who taught me how to ride gave me one piece of advice that I always use, whether I'm in a car or on a bike:

"Pretend you're invisible, and drive accordingly."

Interestingly enough, my wife started driving lessons a few weeks ago, and one of her first lessons was "accident avoidance" - where they covered this exact same topic..

The truth about BeOS (1)

Duck0987 (130663) | more than 13 years ago | (#537223)

Honestly I believe that apple not releasing specs is a total lie on Be's part they don't want to take the time and money to continue developing BeOS for the PPC as it is too small of a market and they are already struggling to support all the video and nic cards on the x86. The myth about Be not running on G3/G4 chips is compleately untrue. I have a Mac 7500 with a XLR8 g4-350 mhz upgrade card and it runs BeOS 4.5 with no problem what so ever.

Be was just looking for an excuse to end support for ppc platform and it looks like they have found it.

Embedded Chip Support (2)

pjrc (134994) | more than 13 years ago | (#537224)

I've been considering starting a project to make a low-cost linux-based single-board computer, perhaps similar to the uCsimm [] , now sold by Lineo [] . Some time ago, the uCsimm sounded really exciting, but the price is now $300 for a slow CPU (people report 25-50 kbytes/sec ftp throughput), and that runs uClinux [] instead of the "real" linux. I don't want to spread FUD about uClinux, it's a great effort, but the fact is that it lacks fork, larger executables, protected memory, and both drivers and userland applications need to be ported. Still, I've got my eye on the Motorola Coldfire chip (runs uClinux), but....

It'd sure be cool to make a low-cost board that could run the real linux, with real memory management (MMU), and a pretty speedy CPU. By low cost, I'm thinking able to sell at $120-$150 for board where you add a SDRAM DIMM and use a network bootstrap or add compact flash card for a local boot. So far, it's looking like the available PPC based off-the-shelf boards are quite expensive. I probably ought to do a bit more homework, but since you're here, my question is....

What are the propects for making a really low cost PPC-based embedded linux computer? Has anyone done it or tried? Is it even possible?

Mouse (2)

blakestah (91866) | more than 13 years ago | (#537225)

Where can I get an off the shelf G4 PPC linux box with a real mouse ?
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