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Microsoft Pursues WebOS Devs, Offers Free Phones

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the worth-it-at-twice-the-price dept.

Cellphones 209

CWmike writes "Taking advantage of Hewlett-Packard's departure from the tablet and smartphone market, Microsoft has offered webOS developers free phones, tools and training to create apps for Windows Phone 7. Brandon Watson, Microsoft's senior director of Windows Phone 7 development, made the offer on Twitter on Friday, and has been fielding queries ever since. 'To Any Published WebOS Devs: We'll give you what you need to be successful on #WindowsPhone, incl. free phones, dev tools, and training, etc.,' Watson said a day after HP's announcement. Before Friday was out, Watson said he had received more than 500 emails from interested developers, and later, that the count was closing in on 600."

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Windows Phone...to be successful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37170494)

trollface.png

And... (1, Troll)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170500)

We'll give you what you need to be successful on #WindowsPhone, incl. free phones, dev tools, and training, etc.

And then in two years we'll deprecate the existing API, change the language specs just enough to break your apps...

Re:And... (2)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170598)

Then in 10 years they'll dump it altogether for the next new thing and WP devs will be shocked, SHOCKED that the career they built around developing in a proprietary language for a walled-garden platform is going into the shitter.

Re:And... (3, Insightful)

ge7 (2194648) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170746)

10 years is a long time. Learning a new language really isn't that hard, especially today. It it were for that kind of thinking we would still be using punch cards with everything.

Re:And... (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170890)

10 years ago, we were talking about PalmOS and Symbian, and maybe laughing at what was WindowsCE/PocketPC. These days, only Windows CE is left (industrial embedded), and we've seen the rise of iOS and Android.

Hell, we even have WebOS, MeeGo/Maemo and many others (QPE anyone remember that?). And don't forget J2ME was supposed to be the mobile language of choice to run phone apps.

Honestly, too many things change in 10 years - heck, by 2020 iOS and Android may have become extinct as well. (PalmOS had 60,000+ apps and was ocnsidered far superior to PocketPC in speed and elegance, but it died because Palm couldn't keep up with flashy and the OS was creaky). All it takes is a few missteps that leads to the downfall of the platform.

Technologies come, technologies go. If the devs were any good, it doesn't matter if the app was written in .NET or whatever proprotary API set - it can be migrated. Heck, on the desktop side we've seen the death of MacOS ("Classic"), and the rise of OS X.

Re:And... (3, Informative)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171276)

(PalmOS had 60,000+ apps and was ocnsidered far superior to PocketPC in speed and elegance, but it died because Palm couldn't keep up with flashy and the OS was creaky).

Palm had more problems than that. Palm had long been an ineptly-managed company where one hand (some pun intended) never knew nor cared what the other was doing. In the late 90s, the founders quit and formed Handspring to compete directly with Palm -- that should tell you how long things have been fishy. Eventually Palm bought Handspring back and merged it with its own hardware division, but by that time Palm had split off its software division into its own company, for reasons that doubtless must have looked good on paper but didn't seem to make much sense in the real world. The software division was busy creating a new version of Palm OS that was a little more "flashy," but meanwhile the hardware division, in its infinite wisdom, decided to start putting out Treos running Windows Mobile. The software division reasoned that it didn't have much of a future as an OS licensing company with one major customer when the customer wasn't even committed to its stuff, so it sold itself to a Japanese company. A couple years later, Palm decided it did want the new version of Palm OS after all, so it had to license it from the Japanese company for $40 million -- but never shipped a single device that used it. Instead it started over again from scratch to develop webOS. Then it got bought by HP, and the rest is history.

Palm started out with a really groundbreaking, quality product. Unfortunately its history as a company seems to have peaked right before it was bought by 3Com, and the rest has been sort of a sad joke. The later successes (Treo), can really be attributed to Handspring, which was formed because the founders weren't getting anything accomplished under 3Com.

Re:And... (3, Insightful)

HerculesMO (693085) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170852)

Yes, Microsoft, the company that breaks compatiblity with its products all the time... *facepalm*.

I think you're thinking of Apple, and even they don't do it that much. I love FUD though.

Re:And... (4, Insightful)

HarrySquatter (1698416) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170924)

And then in two years we'll deprecate the existing API, change the language specs just enough to break your apps...

How was this comment modded insightful? If anything that Microsoft is criticized for is usually the opposite of what you claim. This is the first time I've ever heard complaints that Microsoft changes their API too frequently.

Re:And... (0)

leoplan2 (2064520) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171218)

I'm supposing that you have heard that Windows 8 apps maybe will be HTML5. And you know that WM 6.5 apps won't work in WP7, right?

Re:And... (2)

brim4brim (2343300) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171896)

Windows 8 still runs older applications though. With Windows Phone 7, Ms dropped support for all the earlier Windows Mobile stuff, dropped support for SQL Mobile, didn't allow any Windows Mobile project to be migrative to Visual Studio 2010 forcing any house with projects for both to stick with 2008 or split across two versions of Visual Studio. Keep in mind, this was the same time as they introduced MVC 3 to Vistual Studio 2010 and were refusing to make a lot of the newer projects for 2008 and this was only explained at the release of Visual Studio 2010 and they refused to comment oh what the plans were for Windows Mobile projects and if they would ever be supported and refused to comment on whether Phone 7 would be getting an enterprise version that Windows Mobile houses could migrate to or give any information to anyone basically working in the rugged market where Windows Mobile was the platform of choice. It was a joke.

Re:And... (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171950)

In Windows MS does not change frequently. In Windows Mobile, there has been one major disruption going from WM6 to WP7 where backwards compatibility was broken without a work around. Will MS do break compatibility for WP8? Depends on a lot of things.

Re:And... (0)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171408)

How the hell is this a TROLL?
It's history! It's basically de facto standard business model...

What you need to be successful on WindowsPhone (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37170526)

The ability to turn it into Android.

Relative (2)

Trillan (597339) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170562)

'll give you what you need to be successful on #WindowsPhone, incl. free phones, dev tools, and training, etc"

Success being, of course, a relative term. I would like to think that developers having their plans broken by WebOS's collapse would make future plans based more on market size and what success on a platform would actually look like rather than free hardware and an emotional outreach. But maybe not; after all, they developed for WebOS to begin with.

Re:Relative (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37170674)

Maybe the Devs can successfully sell their free crappy windows phones on Craigslist for a little cash while they are looking for good job.

Re:Relative (1)

darkgrayknight (1679662) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171954)

That'd be good, cause I'd like to have another phone or two to develop apps on.

Can us Android developers.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37170564)

Have a free phone? Assuming that there really are no strings attached.

Re:Can us Android developers.. (1)

Dot.Com.CEO (624226) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171496)

I know you're probably trolling, but MS are offering free phones to developers pretty much for the asking.

Microsoft is really well positioned here (1, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170578)

This was a really smart move.

But beyond that, Microsoft is poised to take serious advantage of the current situation:

1) WebOS users would probably desire a very well designed system, and apart from iOS the only system with strong design behind it is WP7.

2) With Google buying a hardware company, Microsoft is well positioned to say "WP7 is the only OS you can use where the OS designer is not competing with you".

3) Nokia WP7 phones starting to come online soon.

There's a very real possibility WP7 could start cutting in to Android marketshare before too long...

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (3, Interesting)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170628)

This must mean you're the one person in 18 million who actually thinks Microsoft is going to make any significant penetration in the mobile market.

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (1)

Riceballsan (816702) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170866)

It is a valid point, but you also are forgetting, they are chasing after webos developers, which had even lower chance of success out of the gate then WP7 (pretty much equal odds but minus a company that will continue to poor heaps of money into a failing project for years in a desperate hope it will eventually turn profitable).

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171272)

Poor is what happens after you pour heaps of money into a failing project for years.

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171656)

This must mean you're the one person in 18 million who actually thinks Microsoft is going to make any significant penetration in the mobile market.

One of us is going to look back on this post in a few years and laugh and laugh...

One of us is ignoring history.

Hint: I've been paying attention.

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171788)

So have I. When Microsoft steps outside its traditional Windows-Office domain, all it does is throw vast amounts of money with little enough return.

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (1, Troll)

Dan East (318230) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170806)

This is a move on desperation on MS's part. I don't see it as a smart move, because it will be ineffective. First, I doubt there were many "dedicated" WebOS developers, especially for a platform with such a small market. For example, I develop games for iOS and Android jointly, I'm not "dedicated" to any platform. Second, any outfit that is looking to start over from scratch will look at the big, profitable markets. Free hardware is a drop in the bucket. Selling software is what matters, and the WP7 market is pathetic compared to iOS and Android. Finally, everything would have to be rewritten in C#, which is a dead-end as far reaching out to additional (non-MS) platforms. With both Android and iOS developers can use C / C++. 99.99% of my code is shared between Android and iOS. There are literally a hundred or so lines of java and Objective-C for each platform, so I'm very pleased to have one codebase that reaches such a massive amount of mobile users. THAT is what matters.

So to sum it up, hardware, technical support, etc, is not what matters at all here. It's about writing software for large, profitable markets. We're talking about developers for one tiny, insignificant, stagnant platform being lured to another tiny, insignificant, stagnant platform (and I'm referring to hardware market share, growth, etc, not how much money the parent company has to throw around). It's really not even much of a story in the first place in that light.

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (1)

ge7 (2194648) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170930)

So to sum it up, hardware, technical support, etc, is not what matters at all here. It's about writing software for large, profitable markets. We're talking about developers for one tiny, insignificant, stagnant platform being lured to another tiny, insignificant, stagnant platform (and I'm referring to hardware market share, growth, etc, not how much money the parent company has to throw around). It's really not even much of a story in the first place in that light.

Think about what you're saying, and then replace that with the same words about Linux (or even Apple and Macs).

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (3, Informative)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170904)

and apart from iOS the only system with strong design behind it is WP7.

I see you are impressed by cheap ui parlor tricks. Fortunately, some people aren't [cnet.com] .

2) With Google buying a hardware company, Microsoft is well positioned to say "WP7 is the only OS you can use where the OS designer is not competing with you".

And the OEMs will see through the smokescreen. The MicroNokia partnership does not a fair windows phone playing field make.

3) Nokia WP7 phones starting to come online soon.

I have yet to hear one single person in real life say they give a shit about Nokia windows phones. This fiction that Nokia is going to save windows phone is pure fanboy talking point. If people were that wedded to Nokia, their market share wouldn't be in the gutter now.

There's a very real possibility WP7 could start cutting in to Android marketshare before too long...

based on what? This nonsense you've posted? Ha!

Android has never been in a better position than it is in right now. The OEMs know google is serious with 25,000 patents, 600,000 activations daily, steadily climbing market share. You need to wake up, man.

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171776)

I see you are impressed by cheap ui parlor tricks.

Not at all. Just observing they have a distinctive look, and they have been improving the system underneath. WP7 is (unlike many other things they have done) very solid at the core.

And the OEMs will see through the smokescreen. The MicroNokia partnership does not a fair windows phone playing field make.

It is a fair point that Nokia has a slightly closer relationship - but it's wholly its own company, in a way Google/Motorola very obviously is not. If you think OEM's worry about a "smokescreen " in the case of Microsoft/Nokia, what then must they think of Google/Motoroa where there is only hot burning magma to be observed?

I have yet to hear one single person in real life say they give a shit about Nokia windows phones.

Of course not, they have not delivered them yet. Microsoft is moving where the ball is headed. The smartphone market is in the very early stages of growth still.

based on what?

You are the one claiming OEM's would shay away from Microsoft/Nokia because of the hint of a collaboration. Yet you think nothing of Google wholly owning a handset maker. Incredible. And not the Droid Incredible either...

Android has never been in a better position than it is in right now.

That is correct. Once Apple was in this same position. What goes up...

Ignore history (and Microsoft's very large cash reserves) at your peril, just as Sony once did.

I'm only here to tell you what will happen; you are of course free to carry on blissfully ignorant of larger currents beneath you.

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (1)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171830)

I'm only here to tell you what will happen; you are of course free to carry on blissfully ignorant of larger currents beneath you.

See this [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37170960)

#2 and #3 seem to contradict each other, no?

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (0)

JDG1980 (2438906) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171078)

2) With Google buying a hardware company, Microsoft is well positioned to say "WP7 is the only OS you can use where the OS designer is not competing with you". 3) Nokia WP7 phones starting to come online soon. Note that these two points contradict one another.

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171236)

Nope... Nokia has no more exclusivity to use WP7 than any other company.

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171244)

Erm, no, they don't. In fact, the support each other.

Apple is a hardware company who happens to also make their own OS, so if you are a phone maunfacturer, they are competing with you.
Google is an OS manufacturer who now happens to own a large hardware company in the mobile space. If you are a phone manufacturer, even an Android manufacturer, Google is your new competition.
Microsoft is an OS manufacturer. They do not own a hardware company. If you are a phone manufacturer, you receive no competition from Microsoft.

HTH.

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (1)

Daetrin (576516) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171298)

2) With Google buying a hardware company, Microsoft is well positioned to say "WP7 is the only OS you can use where the OS designer is not competing with you".
3) Nokia WP7 phones starting to come online soon.

Note that these two points contradict one another.

Sounds like a classic case of wanting to eat their cake and have it too.

Not much of a contradiction (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171828)

Note that these two points contradict one another.

Not really. Nokia is still totally a separate company, they obviously got some breaks in licensing or something else to develop WP7 phones - but they are still independent and can only expect limited support from Microsoft.

Plus, any other handset maker declaring complete allegiance to Microsoft could probably expect similarly favorable terms. Rather than being a warning, think of it as looking like a model example of signing on to the franchise.

When Nokia WP7 phones start arriving, and both Nokia and Microsoft are pushing them heavily - I think you'll see some real traction, especially since Microsoft has been diligent at getting many of the higher quality app manufacturers to produce for WP7.

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (1)

unrtst (777550) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171846)

I really want to bash this and point out how poorly WP7 is doing, how large the iOS market is, and how much Android is growing, like the other replies.

But I made the same mistake judging the xbox. Loads of people thought MS didn't stand a chance against the established game consoles (especially the PS3), but they've done alright. I like the think that wouldn't have happened if Sony didn't make so many bad decisions, and continues to do so.

(totally off topic - why isn't there a good music jukebox for PS3? Seems all the parts are there, and yet it just sucks at that! And why don't they let you mount a network drive? seems like that'd be trivial to add, and would open it up to all kinds of cloud-storage and such. It's been around long enough, but I just got one, and can't figure out why there's so much that seems like it'd be completely obvious to have there that just isn't available.)

Re:Microsoft is really well positioned here (0)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171922)

1) WebOS users would probably desire a very well designed system, and apart from iOS the only system with strong design behind it is WP7.

Subjective opinions do not facts make. Try again?

2) With Google buying a hardware company, Microsoft is well positioned to say "WP7 is the only OS you can use where the OS designer is not competing with you".

...so long as you forget that Nokia exists, the same Nokia who has preference over anyone else, including independent devs. And also this requires forgetting Microsoft's entire history.

3) Nokia WP7 phones starting to come online soon.

...if one wants to count 12 months or more in the future as "soon"...

There's a very real possibility WP7 could start cutting in to Android marketshare before too long...

By that logic, there's a very real possibility of your having sex with every young woman in the Portland Trailblazers cheerleading squad.
(In other words, barring some astronomical miracle, I wouldn't stock up on either condoms or MSFT stock just yet, if I were you...)

And of those 600... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37170604)

...I'm willing to bet only 10% or less were legitimate.

title correction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37170610)

"Microsoft Saves WebOS from Extinction" there i fixd thatz for u, it seems much more probable

And with Meego... (1)

scorp1us (235526) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170626)

You could have just downloaded everything you needed for free... The only fee is for listing in the Ovi store.

I never got how you could bounce around on stage like a monkey yelling "developers" and still charge people to develop on your platform.

Re:And with Meego... (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170676)

The only fee is for listing in the Ovi store.

And for those who don't know, the Ovi store is an optional, separate, curated store for commercial apps.

Re:And with Meego... (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170686)

The only fee is for listing in the Ovi store.

MeeGo is not tied to the Ovi Store. The Ovi store will be used only by MeeGo-Harmattan, which is a "compatible" OS based off Maemo that includes all the Qt APIs of MeeGo (but no others.)

Also, MeeGo needs a handset developer that isn't Nokia.

Re:And with Meego... (1)

HarrySquatter (1698416) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171000)

I never got how you could bounce around on stage like a monkey yelling "developers" and still charge people to develop on your platform.

You've always been able to freely develop for Windows. It's not as if you've HAD to have Visual Studio to do so. Secondly, for most software companies the cost of Visual Studio is a drop in the bucket in comparison to even 1 week of all their programmer's salaries combined.

Re:And with Meego... (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171510)

Not to mention, the cost of Visual Studio is also a drop in the bucket compared to what it used to cost to license a C/C++ compiler from the big commercial Unix vendors, which didn't even come with an IDE. It's not as if Microsoft invented the idea that developers should have to pay something for commercial tools.

Re:And with Meego... (1)

godrik (1287354) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171746)

But is there actually any meego phone I can buy ? Or a meego tablet ? As far as I understood, it is still in dvelopment.

Re:And with Meego... (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171974)

It's as "in development" as any Linux distribution and the components that it is composed of. Currently the last significant point release was 1.2, which stabilized the compliance rules and APIs. Work is underway on 1.3.

Not just the developers... (1)

milbournosphere (1273186) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170630)

Microsoft should try to get their hands on the webOS IP as well. WebOS was really cool, and MS could really shake things up in the mobile OS market if they were to start integrating webOS features into their mobile OS. Their growing market share might force Google and Apple to come up with similar features once Windows Phone 7 gets a large user base.

Re:Not just the developers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37170710)

let it go. WebOS, has now failed twice. why anyone would think that "grabbing up the failure again"
is somehow a recipe for success fails at critical thought. Besides MS has a chance with WP7 (or 8)
but if the muddy it up a switch streams again it would be utterly disastrous.

Microsoft's Cellphone OS Marketshare Is Plummeting (4, Informative)

VisibleSchlong (2422274) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170642)

http://ir.comscore.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=596854 [comscore.com]

Only the effectively dead Symbian is keeping Microsoft out of last place in the cellphone market right now.

Free stuff is nice, but developers aren't going to waste their time on a dying platform like Windows Phone 7.

Re:Microsoft's Cellphone OS Marketshare Is Plummet (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170690)

Is the viability of the platform really a marketshare issue or is it really about installed base?

Re:Microsoft's Cellphone OS Marketshare Is Plummet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171924)

Is the viability of the platform really a marketshare issue or is it really about installed base?

A large install base is necessary, but it is not sufficient. Most users want to be on the platform everyone else uses, because they don't care about the platform. They just want to do something, and the applications that allow you to do that something tend to come to the popular platform first. In a market where changing platforms is expensive, having 51% of the market today makes you much more likely to have 90% of the market in ten years.

WP7 dying? More like dead (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37170758)

That abysmal WP7 sales are in reality much worse since the market-share numbers are inflated by the older Microsoft Windows Mobile still being sold and not having died off yet.

What an epic failure by Microsoft. 500 million blown on advertising, PR, buying mass amounts of favorible press stories and reviews, paying marketing drones to sit around in webforums to post "I love my WP7 phone!!!!!!!!!", etc.

Gotta love Microsoft's E&D Division. Responsible for:

* The garbage Xbox consoles
* The forgettable Zune
* Kin
* The dead WP7

Why even try to make a good product when you have billions of monopoly profits to blow through and keep your shit product alive in the market?

Re:WP7 dying? More like dead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37170964)

I have no love for MS, but the XBox 360 is the best console for gamers this gen.

Xbox 360 - Worst Console In History (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171204)

Wait...you were trying to be serious...

How sad and pathetic.

% 65 percent hardware failure rate

% The gimped last gen DVD drive ruining games and creating a nightmare for developers

% The wimpy and poorly designed graphics hardware - the Xbox 360 graphics are so weak it is the only console in history to be forced to rely on rigged and faked multiplatform screen shot comparisons because its own exclusives are so embarrassingly bad

% Being forced to pay 60 dollars a year for laggy P2P based online gaming

% The ripoff accessory prices

% The giant Ghostbusters powerbrick

% The Jet Engine Loud operation due to the crappy last gen DVD drive spinning like mad and the junk cooling system working desperately to keep the piece of junk from RRoDing

% No games - only 3 first party dev studios compared to Sony's gigantic 21 and Nintendo's 10

% The piece of shit Sony Eye Toy ripoff aka Kinect

% No Blu-Ray movies - just shitty sub-HD Netflix and crappy old DVDs

% The crappy and poorly designed controller

% No web browser

% The creepy and lame Nintendo Mii ripoffs

Hey but at least if you love downgraded PC ports and shitty Eye Toy style wave your arms around like and idiot games, the Xbox 360 is perfect!

Re:Xbox 360 - Worst Console In History (0)

Bizzeh (851225) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171574)

Firstly, this is off topic.. secondly

where do you get 65% failure rate from? made it up? or found it on some sony or nintendo or anti-microsoft website? either way, its bollocks. a 65% failure rate would have caused any product ever to have been made to be scrapped.

run most multiplatform games side by side, 360 holds up to PC and ps3 quite well... i know this because i have all 3...

8.5gb of usable space doesnt create a nightmare beyond, "you have to compress your pcm and tiff to ac3 and png" on the most part. all cross ports are built for the 360 first, and then the uncompressed textures and audio are put in place on a ps3 version... the same compressed content is actually used on the PC, which also uses "gimped last gen dvd drives"....

according to game.co.uk, there are over 1100 games for the 360 and less than 700 for the PS3. there are also more high quality games on the 360 compared to the 4 games that the ps3 has that the 360 doesnt.

eye toy comparason would be the 360 webcam, kinect is a 3D motion tracking system. actually look into it.

buy a 360 and a sony bluray player... ohh look at that, you have spent less than what a ps3 costs...

controller weighs roughly the same as a psx/ps2/ps3 controller and was voted by wired as the best controller in the market.

use a laptop or a pc... a games console isnt a pc.

fair enough, the only point you have in this entire long list of utter horse shit is that avatars are based on Mii's, but are far better and less gay.

take your head out of sony/nintendo's arse and take 2 minutes to actually look at the bollocks comes from your keyboard.

you arnt forced to pay anything, you choose to play online.

ripoff accessory prices? where is your backup? last lot of accessories i bought were 2 battery packs and 2 charger cables. both official, £12 each from tesco... not bad really.

Re:WP7 dying? More like dead (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171290)

The only reason I see for that is the cross game chat and gaming groups. Otherwise the PS3 has other/better features, IMHO. Sony's been stupid by not introducing it, but with memory limitations (promises to developers/prior games) I can see why they haven't. You can practically guarantee it'll be in the PS4 though unless they are totally brain dead. I personally don't partake in chat unless I have to (strategy, etc.), but I can see the appeal.

No one gives a shit about it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171410)

It is sign of just what piece of shit Microsoft's online service is when its fanboys have to resort to desperately hyping such a inane bulletpoint to justify their forced 50 dollar a year P2P based online gaming service.

It is just like in the early days of Android where there were one or two completely silly little features iPhones had that suddenly became ESSENTIALY MUST HAVE FEATURES in the pro-Apple press and iPhone fanboys would not shut up about. And then when Android got around to adding them suddenly no one gave a shit about the silly features.

Having to listen to people taking a piss, wives screaming, kids crying, shit music blasting, etc is bad enough from people in the same game as you. Listening to that shit from an entirely different game is nothing 99.9 percent of gamers give a shit about, let alone would ever want.

Re:No one gives a shit about it (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171512)

As far as I know, you don't hear chatter from other games. I'm pretty sure that when you join another game, you "leave" your friends channel and join the game channel. When you exit the game, you get kicked back to your friends. I never paid attention while my friend was playing his box but I'm pretty certain that you don't hear other people in other games.

Re:WP7 dying? More like dead (1)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171540)

correction: the XBox 360 is the best console for YOU this gen.

Re:WP7 dying? More like dead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171608)

Except for the PS3 and the Wii...

Re:WP7 dying? More like dead (1)

Riceballsan (816702) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171398)

Microsoft is desperate to land a successful product outside of their OS business. Microsoft sees that the cloud is posing a serious threat to the home desktop market. (web based apps means all OS's are equal, they have to actually compete on features, reliability and price, rather then keep the loop of "everyone codes for windows because that's where the users are, all the users stay with windows because that's what all the software is written for"). As a result of this Microsoft knows that they can't necessarily rely on pulling in troffs of money from windows forever, and absolutely must get a grip in some other market, no matter how much the upfront cost is.

Re:Microsoft's Cellphone OS Marketshare Is Plummet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37170826)

1000 of them will.

Re:Microsoft's Cellphone OS Marketshare Is Plummet (1)

ThisIsSaei (2397758) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170846)

If you consider marketshare to be a measure of success for a platform then I have some bad news for you about Apple's standing.

There is clearly more to a standing than marketshare, and this is a decently timed move by M$ to grab developers. They're receiving replies, so some developers seem to be listening. I think that contradicts your blanket statement there.

Re:Microsoft's Cellphone OS Marketshare Is Plummet (2)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171926)

How would you define success as it relates to windows phone 7? Apple is successful in making money with iOS and Android is successful in market share and ad revenue for Google. How is wp7 successful?

Re:Microsoft's Cellphone OS Marketshare Is Plummet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171230)


Free stuff is nice, but developers aren't going to waste their time on a dying platform like Windows Phone 7.

... except that they already have over 30,000 apps that are already in their store, despite what you want to believe.

Re:Microsoft's Cellphone OS Marketshare Is Plummet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37172014)

'Microsoft' includes WinMo6, which is certainly plummeting (thank god). WP7, though smaller overall, is increasing in share.

WebOS the new beOS (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170714)

WebOS is the new beOS. A lot of people like it, but never really quite good enough to get mass market share. Then after its death developers spread across different platform and introducing a lot of beOS's goodness across many OS's

Re:WebOS the new beOS (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171252)

Actually WebOS was good enough. The SDK at least the first release was crippled and then HP... Well HP spent 1.2 Billion on it and then waited a year to ship products that where already in the pipeline. The Pre3 should have shipped 8 months ago an should have the Touchpad.

Begging for Crumbs... (1)

Kildjean (871084) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170728)

You have to be really desperate to pick up the devs of a dead platform so that you can succeed.

Do not dismiss M$ (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170748)

Much as I loathe Microsoft, I think that their platform is one of the front-runners for developers at the moment. As a developer, I would not touch Microsoft even with a 10 foot pole though, mainly because the platform receives more 'bad press coverage' than good at present.

Re:Do not dismiss M$ (2)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171404)

You mean it is is in the top three or four?
I find it amusing because Microsoft is in the same boat that it has put every other OS in since the DOS days.
A large number of users have already gone to Android and IOS. They have the most apps and support. Not to mention that a lot of people on Android are fully intwined in the Google ecosystem of gmail, google music, google plus, and so on.
Microsoft now has to so much better than everything else that people will go through the pain of leaving. Today new smartphone users are not the early adopter types so they will go to the platforms that everybody else is on.
A lot of people will compair this to the Xbox but it is very different at least in the US. The hard core gamers will drop a few hundred on getting a second or even third console just to try it out. In the US you are often tied to a carrier for two years and a platform mistake is painful. That and most people do not have buy extra cell phones to try out. A few may have two a work and personal phone but most people have a single phone.
WP7 is just not good enough to make people jump ship.

Re:Do not dismiss M$ (1)

Dot.Com.CEO (624226) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171566)

Have you used it? After using iphones, high end Android phones (SGS2, LG crap), my WP7 phone with mango is BY FAR a damn better phone than anything else in the market. I was as dismissive as you until, you know, I actually used one.

Good call (3, Funny)

nilbog (732352) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170768)

This is a great call - those developers turned Web OS into the wildly successful platform it is today.

Re:Good call (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170812)

From everything I've heard about webOS, the platform itself is excellent from both user experience and technical standpoint. It was poor marketing and strategy that killed it.

Re:Good call (1)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171044)

My understanding was that it was laggy on the touchpad and suffered from lackluster hardware both in design and performance on the phones.

Re:Good call (1)

saihung (19097) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171186)

The only thing wrong with it on phones, as far as I can see, are that the bluetooth stack sucks butt and that the bundled PDF reader is kind of rubbish. The cut-and-paste facility is also kind of lackluster. But for most everything I do, the experience has been good. I enjoy using the UI, it's not especially laggy.

Re:Good call (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171564)

You responded to a comment about "lackluster hardware" with two comments about software. Every review of a webOS phone I've read has said the phone feels kind of cheap and flimsy, the specs are sub-average when compared to competing phones, and this or that is a little buggy, but it shows a lot of promise and the next phone ought to make a real dent in the market once they get the kinks ironed out. Of course, we waited and waited, but there was no next phone.

not laggy (1)

Chirs (87576) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171664)

I bought the touchpad on the weekend. I don't really have anything to compare it with, but I don't have any complaints about the UI performance. Some apps don't scroll particularly smoothly, but most do so I think it's an app-specific issue. Reading slashdot works just fine.

I've seen comments that some of the "homebrew" apps can make a significant difference in the apparent speed of the system--among other things the stock WebOS leaves a lot of logging enabled that doesn't need to be.

Windows Phone 7 over Android? (2)

CHK6 (583097) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170870)

When looking at the apples, oranges, and other fruit in the basket of mobile operating systems.... I would think developers that wanted to or were developing for webOS would be more inclined to focus more on Android over Windows Phone. The WebOS was already on the fringe and Windows 7 for the phone was already at their disposal of choice. So moving from WebOS to Windows is well yucky feeling.

That's like asking BeOS or Amiga developers to migrate to Windows over say BSD or Linux.

Re:Windows Phone 7 over Android? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171130)

On the other hand, if there's no obligation, might as well get a free phone. ;)

Re:Windows Phone 7 over Android? (1)

Rockoon (1252108) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171394)

You act as if its an Either/Or situation.

The developers that were targeting WebOS were certainly already also targeted Android and iOS.

Hard for Android to compete with that (1)

elashish14 (1302231) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170888)

since their tools are free already.

Re:Hard for Android to compete with that (1)

elashish14 (1302231) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170946)

Nevermind. Ignore previous comment.

free phones, tools and training

Does one have to pay licensing costs to develop for WP7?

Re:Hard for Android to compete with that (2)

WolfgangPG (827468) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171246)

Like iOS -- $99 a year to get your apps published.

Re:Hard for Android to compete with that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171286)

Your soul?

Why would they go anywhere? (2)

moderators_are_w*nke (571920) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170952)

The market share of WebOS has just gone ballistic. $99 a tablet - genius.

Re:Why would they go anywhere? (1)

Dracos (107777) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171234)

From what I can see, most of the people who are snatching up the cheap TouchPads are developers/modders who realize:

  • What a steal they are are $99 and $149
  • They won't last long (if they're not gone already)

Android will be ported to TouchPad well before the end of the year. HP's exit from the tablet market only damaged Motorola and Samsung tablet sales, and only for a short while. What they should learn from this is that they can't sell non-iPads tablets at iPad prices.

Re:Why would they go anywhere? (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171576)

Must be the crowd you run in. Most of the people I've seen either don't know what they're doing with them, are going to use it as a basic internet/ebook reader, or are going to flip on ebay/craigslist for $200. A lot of them also seem to be people who never bought an iPad because it was too expensive or never really figured out why they needed one. I expect to see a steady state of these things on ebay for a while to come as soon as people realize they actually don't need the damn things.

Re:Why would they go anywhere? (1)

Amouth (879122) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171734)

with a large share of the people who bought them trying to figure out how to get webOS off of it.

Re:Why would they go anywhere? (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 3 years ago | (#37172008)

come to think of it - 250,000 webOS tablets sold means it has a larger market share than Windows Phone 7!

Two words (-1, Offtopic)

DaMattster (977781) | more than 3 years ago | (#37170982)

The two words I have to offer Microsoft are GIVE and UP. Windows does not work well on a phone, it never has and never will. Microsoft is trying to be all things to all people and doing so at the suffering quality of their flagship products. I have to maintain a Windows 2008 SBS Server and network. Every time there is a Windows Update, I lose the correct TCP/IP settings and DHCP gets corrupted. This means that I have to put the correct TCP/IP settings in, remove and re-add the DHCP server role, and then run the Fix My Network Wizard. It is too bad that Microsoft does a whole lot of little things half-assed instead of a few things very well.

Re:Two words (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171200)

You know that may speak about your abilities moreso than their product.

I once saw a warship made by Mitsubishi get blown up... so I won't buy their cars since they are obviously unsafe.

Re:Two words (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171362)

Windows Phone is not like Windows Desktop ... I don't like to normally use either, but at least I know they are very different (for the time being...we'll see what Windows 8 does.)

Re:Two words (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171614)

I'm having trouble drawing the correlation between your incompetence as a Windows server admin and the ability of 'Windows' to run on a phone. Windows Server and Windows Phone do not share a common kernel. Also, I'm an admin on dozens of SBS boxes (since 2003, all versions), and I have never, ever witnessed the problem that you've described. The machines are rock-solid stable; only time one fell over was due to a motherboard that shit the bed.

Why do you want Microsoft to give up? If you dislike them and think they will fail, you should encourage them to waste time and resources on this effort. If you like them and want WP to succeed, you'd tell them to go for it. So the only logical conclusion is that YOU LOVE MICROSOFT and are afraid that WP will fail, and perhaps would rather see Microsoft use its treasure pursuing other opportunities -- like continuing to embarrass Linux on the desktop.

As far as I can tell, Microsoft is doing thousands of things well and you are doing nothing well. I guess you are telling Microsoft to give up because, clearly, you already have.

new WP7 devs now get 20,000 free impressions (1)

WolfgangPG (827468) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171212)

As with most free offers there are rules (to prevent anyone from taking advantage of the deal) and they are as follows:

- Have an app published in the official application store on other mobile platform before August 22, 2011.
- Port and publish it in Windows Phone Marketplace from August 22, 2011 to December 31, 2011.
- Request your 20,000 ad impressions coupon by sending links to your app on the other platform and Windows Phone platform to info@adduplex.com

While this will help webOS developers get started, the offer is also being extended to Android, iOS, and Blackberry developers. It's nice to see the Windows Phone community offer alternatives to webOS and other developers.

And if Google or Android had offered free phones (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37171216)

"Before Friday was out, Watson said he had received more than 500 emails from interested developers, and later, that the count was closing in on 600."

I bet the count of interested developers would have been around 100,000

Has anyone noticed... (1)

gbl08ma (1904378) | more than 3 years ago | (#37171902)

...that WebOS has received more press attention and discussions after it was declared dead by HP than when it was launched a month and a half ago? At least this is my perception.

I never put my hands on a WebOS device, not even on a old Palm device, but I must say the hardware of the HP Touchpad looks nice and for $99 it's worth at least for acting as an expensive candle. Note that WebOS is now a dead OS (did it ever get alive?), but that doesn't mean it stops working from one day to another. Not everyone needs constant OS updates, if all they want is checking their email, calendar and reading the news while sitting on their sofa. This kind of people don't need active developers and 1 million apps in an "app store" either, and I think these people will find the Touchpad interesting for being a well-known branded product, while having a liquidation price.
A tablet (nor a phone, nor a media player) doesn't need constant upgrades in their firmware to work, assuming the current one is stable enough. And the lack of "official" developers on the platform can be easily surpassed by homebrew developers - I repeat, the HP Touchpad is now at $99 (it might even go lower, who knows), and Android might be put into it, so if I could I would grab a Touchpad just now to make hacking fun of it.

I think that MS is either desperate on getting developers to develop for WP7, and they are so desperate that even the very small niche of WebOS developers looks important to them, or else, that Brandon-Watson-speaking-for-Microsoft didn't think twice (perhaps not even once) before tweeting about that offer...

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