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After Rick Perry's Stem Cell Treatment, Misplaced Enthusiasm?

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the plug-and-play-delicious-genes dept.

Medicine 340

oxide7 writes "Presidential candidate Rick Perry underwent a controversial stem-cell treatment this past month, prompting some doctors to fear the high-profile event would send the wrong signal to desperate patients. 'As a highly influential person of power, Perry's actions have the unfortunate potential to push desperate patients into the clinics of quacks,' Dr. George Q. Daley said."

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God fearing men... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37171446)

Don't use Stem Cells. Mr. Perry - please explain yourself.

Your Friends,
~The Tea Party

Re:God fearing men... (5, Insightful)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171498)

Don't use Stem Cells. Mr. Perry - please explain yourself.

Your Friends,
~The Tea Party

Sigh. Looks like my comment didn't make it in time to educate this ignorant AC. Here it is again:
Yes, Rick Perry is against embryonic stem cell research. Yes, this treatment did NOT use embryonic stem cells.

Please do not say that Republicans or conservatives are against stem cell research. Conservatives are against the destruction of an embryo for the purposes of scientific research. Embryonic stem cell research is still government funded provided that it uses old stem cell lines or adult derived stem cells.

With that said, let's leave the straw-men in the field.

Re:God fearing men... (2, Insightful)

i kan reed (749298) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171596)

That's true. I made a similar post further down the page. However, republican opposition to embryonic stem cells is still absurd. It comes to the assumption or belief or whatever you want to call it that something without a brain is somehow human. It's just another tally in the table of republicans don't understand or believe science and the act on that

Re:God fearing men... (3, Insightful)

ravenspear (756059) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171682)

As we all know, life begins at ejaculation.

That's why masturbation is wrong.

If you masturbate, you've committed lust in your heart and spilled an innocent life on the ground.

Re:God fearing men... (4, Funny)

Tharsman (1364603) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171770)

Science has proven there are hundreds of life seeds in a single batch of sperm. If you masturbate you didn't spill an innocent life, you committed genocide!!! :P

Re:God fearing men... (4, Funny)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171802)

Men are genocidal monsters (even if there is a pregnancy there will never* be a 1:1 sperm to baby ratio) and women are serial killers.

*standard /. disclaimers for pedants who don't understand common usage

Re:God fearing men... (2)

Tharsman (1364603) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171888)

I can't live with this guilt anymore.... I must end my life... I'll commit suicide by watching Fox News until my brain gets flooded with clots.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

Roachie (2180772) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172176)

Too late.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171944)

If you masturbate you didn't spill an innocent life, you committed genocide!!! :P

Even if you had sex for the purposes of procreation and even if you succeeded... you still wasted "hundreds of life seeds"

Re:God fearing men... (1)

thesh0ck (1983948) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172098)

millions

Re:God fearing men... (5, Funny)

Amouth (879122) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171808)

Remember - Jesus died for our sins, if we don't sin his death will have been for nothing.

Re:God fearing men... (2)

PPH (736903) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172374)

spilled an innocent life on the ground.

Same as dropping a bowl of yogurt.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

gstrickler (920733) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171850)

It comes to the assumption or belief or whatever you want to call it that something without a brain is somehow human.

I see plenty of humans walking around (or posting on the internet) with no evidence that they have a brain.

Re:God fearing men... (2)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172364)

It comes to the assumption or belief or whatever you want to call it that something without a brain is somehow human.

I see plenty of humans walking around (or posting on the internet) with no evidence that they have a brain.

So, you see plenty of non-breathing people who cannot independently control their bodies ... in the process of controlling their bodies?

Re:God fearing men... (2)

jdpars (1480913) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171872)

The argument here can't be boiled down to "This is or is not a person." The real argument is whether it is in your personal values to consider a fetus at whichever point to be close enough to be considered worth saving. The arguments over whether it is a woman's right to choose, whether the process is humane, etc. are all secondary to that main point. And the answer here is that every person's response is somewhat unique. The difficulty arises when this spectrum of personal values is polarized to a single yes or no question: should abortions be allowed to happen? Almost everyone's (real) answer, is "Yes, but...". Some are "Yes, but only in extreme cases." or "Yes, but only very early." or "Yes, but only with after a serious discussion with a therapist and a doctor." Even those who support abortion at points considered to be very late in the usual arguments (third trimester, for example) would probably say that aborting two weeks before the expected due date would be wrong, or at least a poor choice. So rather than saying that anyone who is against abortion is a "republican who [doesn't] understand or believe in science," understand that there is really no right answer to this question. Human gestation is not a simple process, but it is definitely connected to our personal beliefs and values about life and humanity. Disregarding that connection will only alienate you.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

rahvin112 (446269) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172444)

Whatever you believe about a Fetus and it's value the reality is that Abortion is a medical procedure that is between the doctor and their patient. One of the greatest avenues to government intrusion into peoples personal lives is the propensity of both parties to regulate the medical establishment.

All the nut jobs that want to put restrictions on abortions absolutely fail to consider the situation when that abortion is not only warranted, but needed to save a life. The most volatile of those is the third trimester abortion, yet in the vast majority of those cases those abortions are not only medically necessary they are required to save the life of the mother. The vast majority of the public is completely unaware of the genetic diseases, conditions and medical dangers that can present themselves during human gestation and the results that not only kill the fetus but the mother as well. Yet these same individuals are willing to exact a death sentence on an innocent woman because they feel it's their moral imperative to dictate the medical needs of others with the full force of the guns and prisons of government.

Abortion like all the other legislation that involves dictating morality to others is a personal choice that revolves around medical discussions between doctors and their patients. I personally don't believe abortion should be used as a birth control method in this day and age but I'm not stupid enough to believe that it's the role of government to dictate medical choices on the populace.

Re:God fearing men... (2)

RobertLTux (260313) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171952)

My personal problem with embryonic stem cells is we can not have any kind of profit in using the UnBorn. (not create a market for UnBorn corpses)
Now my views on Abortion come from being a Caucasian Male with a Conservative background and are as follows

1 It is the responsibility of the Father to A support his children B keep his [redacted} fly shut PERIOD
2 Abortion should be the result of a doctor having to choose between the mother and the child (as in both will die RIGHT NOW) not any kind of "convenience"
3 We need to fund research into artificial "Creche" tech to allow for premies to be supported (and in cases where a C-Section has to be done to save the mother)
4 Penalties for raping an adult needs to be severe (Life No Parole or Death) and Penalties for raping minors needs to be epically severe (when LNP is used due to no Death in a state then when he gets shived in prison it should count FOR the shiver at his next parole hearing)
5 any org that is anti-abortion should also fund adoption centers (you have to do something with the kids)

Re:God fearing men... (2)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172152)

Ok. How many children from orphanages in Africa have you adopted recently?

Or maybe you're selling all your disposable income to them? That would be not as good, but we can overlook it.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

MakinBacon (1476701) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172234)

I fail to understand the connection between orphans in Africa and abortions in the United States. Please, enlighten me.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172458)

well my personal problem is that i have exactly ZERO disposable income so i have not done so HOWEVER if i do ever have any i will of course donate to my local community first.

(and im working with a shelter making nonprofit as it happens)

Re:God fearing men... (2)

Tharsman (1364603) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171740)

Generalism is a common human sin. But there is a large group of extremist conservative republicans that have zero science education that think all stem cell research is evil.

Note I say this as a Catholic that believes in Evolution and also feels annoyed every time atheists label every religious person in the planet as cavemen worshiping the flame. I know how it is to be in the wrong end of these generalizations.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171992)

But there is a large group of extremist conservative republicans that have zero science education that think all stem cell research is evil.

Really, have you ever met any? I do not know of any.
It would not surprise me to learn that, because of the way the press reports on all stem cell research, there are a few who are unaware that there are any stem cells that are not derived from embryos (or, if they are aware are under the impression that our knowledge of them derives from embryonic stem cell research*). However, I doubt there are any that would be opposed to adult stem cell research once it was clearly explained to them.

*Considering how many posters on here have indicated a belief that this treatment probably derives from embryonic stem cell research that does not indicate any particular ignorance on their part.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

GrumpySteen (1250194) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172138)

I think you're greatly underestimating the stubborn stupidity of the small handful of nutcases who constantly get attention from the media because of their controversial views.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

Tharsman (1364603) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172170)

I actually do. Quite a few. And you would be shocked but the one I know the best is a preacher, who is also a computer programmer and huge scifi geek (but he has a grudge against anything magic related, like Lord of The Rings) that feels that way. It is indeed ignorance, but its an ignorance due to a religious barricade. Not only will he refuse to talk to you off the topic or allow you to tell him about the many forms of stem cell research, but he will go and preach about it at his church every time the topic is in the news, and his "flock" will take his word as the word of the lord and argue with anyone that opposes what he says.

Yes, it all goes down to ignorance, but not in a way where educating them will do any good because they just cover their ears and go "nya nya I dont hear ya."

Re:God fearing men... (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171800)

Are you confirming that Conservatives, as a group, are now entirely made up of Fundamentalist Christians?

Re:God fearing men... (1)

HarrySquatter (1698416) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171874)

Conservatives are against the destruction of an embryo for the purposes of scientific research.

But apparently not against the embryos being destroyed in a furnace instead since that is what happens if they are not used in the research.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171946)

The incentive to create embryos for research also goes up in the furnace. You might not feel squeamish about me paying women to have abortions at my clinic and then reselling those embryos to research centers, but apparently there's a lot of people who do.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

RingDev (879105) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172456)

If everything you know about stem cell research comes from the South Park episode where Cartmen makes a pizza joint out of aborted featuses, you should seek additional education.

-Rick

Re:God fearing men... (1)

Grygus (1143095) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172506)

The incentive to create embryos for research also goes up in the furnace. You might not feel squeamish about me paying women to have abortions at my clinic and then reselling those embryos to research centers, but apparently there's a lot of people who do.

But that would be slow and inefficient, and possibly expensive. Surely if research went forward we would try to figure out a better way to grow the cells needed; if they're nearly as useful as projected we will need to manufacture them on industrial scales, and once they could be replicated quickly and/or cheaply, your natural fetuses would be worthless again. I'm not really a believer in the market as a universal panacea, but it seems like it would address this problem relatively quickly.

Re:God fearing men... (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37171578)

Tea Partiers like myself are all for the use of adult stem cell and umbilical cord stem cell therapy.

Scientists like myself support methods that work, which again is adult / umbilical cord stem cells.

Embryonic Stem Cells don't work. It's bad science. Adult / umbilical cord stem cells, on the other hand, show a remarkable success rate.

That is good science.

Re:God fearing men... (2)

drjones78 (961270) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171728)

Embryonic stem cells do actually work - in fact, they are known to produce full blown human beings, under the right conditions.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171810)

Embryonic stem cells do actually work - in fact, they are known to produce full blown human beings

"Got spinal damage? Try Embriostem! (Side effects may include vomiting, diarrhea, and budding of another human being within your spinal cord.) Ask your doctor if Embriostem is right for you!"

Re:God fearing men... (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171990)

It will be somewhat interesting to see if anything happens to him. Horrible spine-babies are unlikely; but the thin dividing line between stem cells and good old fashioned cancer(or sometimes 'benign' non-metastasizing tumors in and around the insertion site) is some sort of touchy cellular signallying that is, as yet, not as well understood as it might be...

I know that my 'bad back' would have to be pretty bloody bad to risk growing a nest of tumors around my spine.

Re:God fearing men... (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172048)

they don't work FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES they obviously work for the purpose of creating people

Re:God fearing men... (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171824)

That's a rather broad claim, don't you think? I have a feeling you're a Tea Partier, but I think you're lying through your sorry teeth about being a scientist.

Re:God fearing men... (0)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171584)

He didn't use the really high-quality dead baby ones, so Jesus said okay.

Re:God fearing men... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37172336)

You mean the babies were black?

Dayum.... WTF (0)

Marble68 (746305) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171448)

So now a person's personal heath care decisions are game for criticism and would count against them for political consideration?

What's next?

"Candidate's love of tuna + mac-n-cheese is extreme and wildly outside the mainstream..."

Seriously - when did we get to a point where there is only one right way to think, talk, and act?

Sad - very few people would even *know* about this if they were trying to use it as some type hit piece..

If Dr. George Q. Daley would keep his f*cking mouth shut, maybe people wouldn't be *aware* of this.

Jackassery all around.

Re:Dayum.... WTF (5, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171548)

Yes, if you're going to be The Decider, your decisions will be under a lot of scrutiny. If you've fallen prey to false claims in the medical field, you're likely to be manipulated by political quacks too.

Re:Dayum.... WTF (1)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172104)

I had no idea that stem cell treatments are false claims in the medical field.

I know there ARE those who claim false things about them, but wasn't "stem cell research" a huge issue in the last few years ... with most people, especially the medical field, fighting for more? especially embryonic?

Here's the actual procedure:

The Republican contender, who has access to the best medicine, chose to get stem cells removed from his fat from his back and then reinserted in attempts to fix a bad back.

And the criticism:

"As a highly influential person of power, Perry's actions have the unfortunate potential to push desperate patients into the clinics of quacks" who are selling unproven treatments "for everything from Alzheimer's to autism," Dr. George Q. Daley, of the Harvard Stem Cell Institute told the Associated Press.

There's no statement that it's a quack. It has not been "thoroughly vetted by researchers or approved by the FDA." ("thoroughly" seems like a key word there).

So, according to Daley, I guess presidential candidates can never try an experimental treatment? Progress: only allow the lesser people (peasants) to have somewhat experimental/unproven medical procedures done; the upper class should wait.

If it was someone else (no, I'm not referring to any other political figure), I wonder if we would herald him as being brave enough to further science by allowing his problem be tested on for a cure.

Re:Dayum.... WTF (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172240)

Context matters a lot. Is the experimental treatment part of the process to get the treatment FDA approved? Or is it a couple of guys a strip mall with a syringe and a centrifuge?

I guarantee you it's a lot more like the latter than the former. The FDA would like to shut these guys down, but your own cells aren't legally considered a drug. The FDA is going to court to try to change that.

Re:Dayum.... WTF (1)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172380)

I have no idea exactly how it was "experimental." It wasn't done by a random dude in a mall:

Perry underwent a spinal fusion procedure from Stanley C. Jones, MD, a Houston orthopaedic surgeon. But it wasn’t as routine as it sounds. During the operation, Jones gave Perry an infusion of adult stem cells in an effort to speed recovery.

(source [webmd.com] ).

Exactly how sanctioned that is I suppose is debatable... companies in other countries Japan, China, South Korea) are mentioned.

Re:Dayum.... WTF (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171556)

Sorry, but being gullible to quacks does not speak well of one's suitability to hold perhaps the world's most powerful office.

Re:Dayum.... WTF (1)

jdpars (1480913) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171916)

TFA did not say Rick Perry went to a quack. TFA said that there is a fear that people will think stem cells are magic cures and will seek out quacks who claim to heal them, all because they "heard Rick Perry did it."

Re:Dayum.... WTF (1)

LifesABeach (234436) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172338)

I RTFA, the average Tea Party Mind [rollingstone.com] will hear "Stem Cells", and make a life decision there; regardless of fact. If Parry should debate the President, Obama's accusation of Parry not spending funds [newsvine.com] set aside to help the poor just so Parry could bank roll personal projects in a failing Texas sized state economy will be stinging. Like wise, people want to go to work, and will vote for the candidate that get them work.

I am reminded of an old joke, "Most Tea Party Types will not change their mind on Thursday given new information discovered on Wednesday for a personal judgement made on Tuesday."

Re:Dayum.... WTF (1)

White Flame (1074973) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171658)

"Candidate's love of tuna + mac-n-cheese is extreme and wildly outside the mainstream..."

If the candidate has a political platform against tuna + mac-n-cheese, then yes.

(However, the embryonic vs non-embryonic is the difference at stake here)

Re:Dayum.... WTF (1)

StandardAI (1988770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171900)

You missed the point entirely. Basically what is being said is "rich man who can afford exotic procedure from well trained professionals will cause poor people with life threatening conditions to seek the same type of treatment but will only receive scams from doctors who have no idea how to do stem cell procedures."

According to TFA, the surgery was a complete success and is doing what it was supposed to do.

that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37171456)

...bastard.

!surprise (3, Insightful)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171460)

A candidate who has prayer rallies as part of his campaign is into quackery? Gee, who possibly could have seen this coming.

Re:!surprise (2)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172114)

Stem cell research that apparently has helped is not quackery.

Re:!surprise (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172312)

A broken clock is right two times a day.

Sometimes quacks do get it right, but hoping that they'll accidentally get it right is not a good idea. In this case it's a matter of how much evidence do you need to take the risk and at what point is anything better than doing nothing.

Re:!surprise (1)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172344)

It was experimental. It appears that Perry was not promised any benefit, like a quack would do. How is an experimental operation a quack?

Re:!surprise (1)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172468)

Yes, Rick Perry is religiously extreme. If he went to Revered White's church, then he could at least claim to be a moderate.

He is not being a hypocrite (4, Informative)

JoshuaZ (1134087) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171470)

Well, he isn't being too much of a hypocrite. Rick Perry earlier said he was against embryonic stem cell research http://www.chron.com/news/article/Perry-speaks-out-against-abortion-stem-cell-1498123.php [chron.com] So instead he's using his own stem cells in a poorly studied and as yet not very well understood process. He could have been a real hypocrite and done something with embryonic stem cells. But nope, he's pushed for the screwing over of science and medicine and he's going to stick with it. Of course, there's the secondary problem that even reliable, well-studied adult stem cell research is based to a large extent on information we got from studying embryonic stem cells. So even if this does work he will be benefiting from the research he despises. So I guess there is a small bit of hypocrisy but it isn't nearly as bad as it could have been.

Re:He is not being a hypocrite (1)

i.am.delf (1665555) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171742)

This is what I don't understand about the "but they aren't embryonic so its ok" argument. Thats not how science works. We didn't go back and forget how to reprogram embryonic stem cells and then relearn how to program iPSC. We used all the data from the old embryo destroying techniques to figure out how to use them. In essence, you are benefiting from the destruction of embryos.

Re:He is not being a hypocrite (2)

quantaman (517394) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172024)

Neither the article nor the summary accused him of being a hypocrite.

The complaint is that there's a lot of quackery surrounding stem cell treatments, and Perry's procedure could be seen as an endorsement of those quack treatments.

Now I don't know enough about Perry's specific treatment to know if his treatment is legit, or how much it might fuel the quacks, but there's no hypocrisy with the embryonic stem cell debate.

Fix your nervous system FIRST! (2, Funny)

Dr.Bob,DC (2076168) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171480)


Rick Perry, like almost all other sick people, needs to do one thing FIRST and FOREMOST. Namely: FIX YOUR NERVOUS SYSTEM!

I will absolutely guarantee his spine and nervous system is replete with subluxations and blockages which are causing all his problems. No, BigPharma will hear none of this. Go for their expensive ~drugs~ and ~therapies~ that prolong the suffering but have cured NOTHING.

Modern Chiropractic is your gateway to good health. Drugs keep you enslaved.

Bob

Re:Fix your nervous system FIRST! (1, Offtopic)

XanC (644172) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171668)

Then there are others whose main problem is their *central* nervous system. Had yours checked lately?

Re:Fix your nervous system FIRST! (0)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171736)

You must REALLY hate chiropractors. Please post many similar letters to editors. Copypasta is fine.

Re:Fix your nervous system FIRST! (1)

SleazyRidr (1563649) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171942)

Fifth post, Dr. B? Used to be that you were reliably #1. Looks like you're slowing down, perhaps you need to take a break from posting online to sort out your sublaxations to get back to your peak.

Re:Fix your nervous system FIRST! (1)

desdinova 216 (2000908) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172514)

Bob, you're slipping you're usually the first post in a medical related topic.

Before anyone points this out... (4, Informative)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171482)

Yes, Rick Perry is against embryonic stem cell research. Yes, this treatment did NOT use embryonic stem cells.

Please do not say that Republicans or conservatives are against stem cell research. Conservatives are against the destruction of an embryo for the purposes of scientific research. Embryonic stem cell research is still government funded provided that it uses old stem cell lines or adult derived stem cells.

With that said, let's leave the straw-men in the field.

Re:Before anyone points this out... (1)

allometry (840925) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171858)

If I had some mod points, I'd hand them over to you as insightful.

Re:Before anyone points this out... (1)

Crazy_entertainer (2442572) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172056)

Yep, I couldn't agree with you more. YOu can get more stem cells from the adomin, and even in fat cells lining the anus [clownsong.com] . They are not as high quality and lack the proteins that a true embryonic stem cell has though.

Re:Before anyone points this out... (-1, Troll)

NNKK (218503) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172092)

Every conservative I encounter assumes stem cells = dead babies, so apparently they don't even know what they're against. Perhaps you should go tell them, I think it's been five minutes since the last conservative leader found something his whore-shippers are supposed to hate.

Re:Before anyone points this out... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37172172)

Maybe if you ventured out of your closed minded circle of acquaintances once in a while... just maybe you would actually have a chance to encounter what the left considers the fabled creatures of open minded, well educated conservatives.

Re:Before anyone points this out... (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172326)

the fabled creatures of open minded, well educated conservatives.

Extinct in their natural habitat, having been driven out by the more aggressive Tea Party species*. A few are still on display in a zoo near you.

*Evolution at work.

Re:Before anyone points this out... (1)

Creedo (548980) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172118)

Adult stem cell research benefited from previously performed embryonic stem cell research. It did not arise on its own. Frankly, I'd ok the destruction of any number of embryos if it meant large medical gains for existing human beings.

Re:Before anyone points this out... (2)

Chemisor (97276) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172280)

Most embryonic stem cell research is done on mouse embryos, not human ones. Human embryonic stem cells are finicky about their environment and are generally a royal PITA to work with. There is very little benefit to working with human cells when you're researching basic mechanisms of pluripotency, since they are the same in the mouse cells. Frankly, the main reasons for pushing the switch to human cells are political, and even if you don't need them or want them, the boss may push it on you anyway because the results would look "better" when you try to submit them to Nature.

Re:Before anyone points this out... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37172500)

Adult stem cell research benefited from previously performed embryonic stem cell research. It did not arise on its own. Frankly, I'd ok the destruction of any number of embryos if it meant large medical gains for existing human beings.

I'd ok the destruction of any number of human embryos, period.

Fully half of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion. [wikipedia.org]

If God has decided to discard half the entire human race this way, then I don't think He'll begrudge us a handful of our own.

Re:Before anyone points this out... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37172158)

What is the conservative position on funding research, any cell research? Is there support for NIH? Support for basic research necessary to even know what an adult stem cell was?

I think saying, "well, he didn't use embryonic stem cells, so all is fine" is missing several points.

Re:Before anyone points this out... (1)

utkonos (2104836) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172410)

I think you can answer your own question if you just stop at funding:

"What is the conservative position on funding --------?"

The answer is they are against funding things. Period. Oh wait, except if they can make money from funding weapons programs. Or, make money from funding drilling in wildlife refuges. Perhaps we have to come up with some way that Halliburton could make billions of dollars through embrionic stem cell research, conservatives would change their tune.

embryo == "potental for individual being" (1)

tizan (925212) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172254)

Thus conservatives does not want an embryo destroyed which is just a few cells.

But with cloning a booger with a few living cell in it can be potential to make a new
individual...thus shall we not destroy any booger or piece of skin ?

I think conservatives have to decide, why an embryo should not be destroyed or when/which few cells == "potential of living babies"
or life.

Re:Before anyone points this out... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37172438)

Also, please don't assume that everyone who votes Republican is against embryonic stem-cell research. Or attends church for that matter.

Sometimes I vote Democrat - like when there's no other candidate, or the Republican is under indictment. But Democrats have this weird notion that government is the question and answer to everything. Must be something in the water.

Not embryonic (1)

i kan reed (749298) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171492)

preface: Rick Perry's public statements have lead me to believe he is a very ill-informed or decietful person with regards to his political views. That is not what this post is about.

Before anyone jumps the gun and goes for the "hippocrite" line, the stem cells used were adult, not embryonic as his party as absurdly become opposed to for poorly informed reasons. Just worth noting.

Re:Not embryonic (3, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171570)

That's just focusing on the very tail end of the research process.

You still need to ask whether or not any of this could have happened at all without research he doesn't approve of over religious grounds that aren't even that well founded in doctrine to begin with. (thus the problem of embedding religious doctrine in public policy)

Re:Not embryonic (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171892)

There are two things I would like to point out. The first is that whenever I point out that all current approved treatments using stem cells use adult stem cells and none use embryonic stem cells someone points out that adult stem cells have been studied significantly longer than embryonic stem cells.
The second point is that the treatment that he received is an experimental treatment, not quackery. It may become quackery in a few years if the doctors continue administering after the studies are run, if the studies fail to prove its efficacy and safety. This is a treatment that current medical theory says has significant promise, but it has not yet undergone sufficient testing to determine if it works as currently administered. It may turn out that the theory is flawed, or that the procedure does not work as currently administered.

Re:Not embryonic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37171696)

Before anyone jumps the gun and goes for the "hippocrite" line, the stem cells used were adult, not embryonic as his party as absurdly become opposed to for poorly informed reasons.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Re:Not embryonic (1)

elfprince13 (1521333) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172120)

Ill-informed you say? Pot, meet kettle. *Deceitful *Hypocrite *embryonic, *has

Dr Bob? (1)

XanC (644172) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171562)

"clinics of quacks" actually appeared in the summary, and yet NOTHING from "Dr" Bob yet?

Re:Dr Bob? (1)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171602)

He beat you by 5 minutes.

Re:Dr Bob? (1)

XanC (644172) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171640)

Aw dang, he got modded down so quickly I missed him!

For anyone thinking of voting (1)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171694)

For anyone thinking of voting for Mister Perry let me inform you as someone who has met the man and lived in the state he's governed for most my life he is not someone you want in your white house. He's managed to distance himself over the last few years from Bush Jr but that's only political maneuvering they are still part of the same good old boys club and move in the same circles. He's even using the same tactic as bush and trying to get in good with the religious circles to try and get votes. The one time I met and spoke with the met I came away feeling dirty, he's got the feeling of a snake oil salesman.

A slimy politician?? No way! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37171782)

Name one politician who isn't in a good ol boys club.

The very act of getting elected induces them into the "goodest, oldest" boys club there is: that of the people who rule over us with impunity.

Or are you operating under the illusion that there is one group of politicians who are the good guys and another that are the bad guys? Then why do big corporations contribute to them equally? Why does neither side support any kind of real campaign finance reform? Why do both sides fight so hard to maintain the status quo? Answer: because the status quo is their club.

Re:A slimy politician?? No way! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37172286)

I can name several, on both sides of the political spectrum. Not to say that they aren't marginalized and cast aside by their respective political parties at every opportunity, but they do exist.

Re:For anyone thinking of voting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37171976)

He also killed an innocent man on death row, who by modern science, did not commit arson and was innocent. Even with the mountain of evidence that cleared the man from arson, he continued with the sentence because he believed Texas should never compromise...

Re:For anyone thinking of voting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37172186)

So it's Bush Lite vs. Bush Redux. God, I hope Nader is going to run.

Topic for discussion (1)

gstrickler (920733) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171762)

If God is the creator of life, and the one who decides when your time is up, then isn't tricking your cells into becoming stem cells again defying God's will (or playing God)?

No, I don't have an answer to that, it's just a question. Just wondering where people draw the line between medicine and "playing God", since "God's will/province" is a central concept in the fight against embryonic stem cell research and abortion.

Re:Topic for discussion (1)

night_flyer (453866) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171840)

If its your time to go, its your time to go, there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Re:Topic for discussion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37172094)

then isn't tricking your cells into becoming stem cells again defying God's will

Pull out a hair from your head. See that white clump on the end that used to be attached to your head? There are stem cells in there.

I thought liberals were supposed to be all smart and stuff.

Re:Topic for discussion (1)

gstrickler (920733) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172258)

Pull out a hair from your head. See that white clump on the end that used to be attached to your head? There are stem cells in there.

You insensitive clod, I'm practically bald and you want me to pull out some of my remaining hair?

Re:Topic for discussion (1)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172260)

I think this is one of those logic questions that basically doesn't make sense. There are those who have come to this conclusion, so don't practice any medicine whatsoever.

Here's one way to answer it. You're drowning in the ocean. A boat comes by and tries to pick you up; you refuse, saying you're trusting God and that when He wants you to die, you'll die. A second boat; same thing. A third; same thing. You drown. You ask God, "Why didn't you save me?" He asks you, "Why did you pass up the three boats I sent?"

Story aside, there's some pretty hard to figure out questions lumped into this question. Basically, it comes down to questions of human responsibility and God's decisions. Biblically, God never seems to say that you need to "let go and let God" as the silly 60s/70s thing went. God clearly expected people to be active in life. It's like living by eating food; if you decide you're going to "depend on God" and not eat and expect God to miraculously sustain your body the rest of your life ... you're probably going to die. It's ridiculous to "assume" that God is going to save you in the face of your reckless presumption on Him when He has clearly expected you to be responsible for your own actions.

Basically, this question boils down to: if God is in control of everything, then why do we need to do anything, why can't He just "make" it happen the way He wants.

I suppose He "could." But He didn't chose to do it that way?

As for me, the "playing God" thing... that seems to be an un-reasoned out response to something that someone has a gut feeling against. As for embryonic stem cell research and abortion, that's a Biblical stance that aborted babies were actually human beings, and thus abortions are an abomination to God. Like murder. That really has nothing to do with "playing God."

Nor, incidentally, is genetics "playing God." Of course, if you choose to try to change your baby's eye color through a dangerous genetic operation? That seems ... shall we say, ludicrously dangerous and disrespectful of human life, which God clearly significantly values.

physician error on leading cause of death list (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37171794)

stem cells have not hurt anyone, & have had positive results (permanent cures), previously unavailable, for many. you call this 'weather'?

Stem cells are corporations! Oh the humanity! (2)

OutSourcingIsTreason (734571) | more than 2 years ago | (#37171862)

Stem cells are people.
Corporations are people.
Therefore, by transitivity, stem cells are corporations.

Re:Stem cells are corporations! Oh the humanity! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37172508)

We must cut taxes on the blob creating stem cells.

The Stem Cells Were Taken From +4, Helpful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37171980)

    the remaining part of Perry's brain, leaving Perry with NO brain.

      Rick Perry: The Texas IDIOT !

Yours In Krasnoyarsk,
K. Trout

He should have done what JFK did for his back (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37172032)

a small dose of Marilyn Monroe!

ALERT! (1)

DaMattster (977781) | more than 2 years ago | (#37172320)

The pot just called the kettle black!

My god! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37172372)

Is there any evil the Republicans are NOT responsible for? Now they're going to have people running to quack physicians for quack treatments!

I can't wait until we find out which teapublican b@stard flapped his arms and caused the earthquake/tsunami in Japan!

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