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Fedora 16 Alpha Released

Unknown Lamer posted more than 3 years ago | from the put-a-feather-in-my-red-hat dept.

Operating Systems 111

AdamWill writes "Fedora 16 Alpha is released today, featuring GNOME 3.1.4 with a unified input indicator for keyboard layouts and input methods, KDE 4.7, GRUB 2 on new installations (with GPT disk labels) and several other major changes. You can download it now. Remember to read the important information in the release notes and common bugs page."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Firefox 16 (5, Funny)

ikkebra (867937) | more than 3 years ago | (#37183898)

I first read this as Firefox 16 Alpha Released and it still made sense.

Re:Firefox 16 (4, Funny)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 3 years ago | (#37183954)

Nah, thats not for a few weeks yet. I think.

Re:Firefox 16 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184226)

They are still on 13.

Re:Firefox 16 (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184842)

Wait for it...
Waaaiit for it...
.
.
FIREFOX 16 IS RELEASED!
NOW it is!
No tabs anymore, no menus and no buttons. Full Gnome 3 integration. Everything you could ever dream of in your worst nightma
FIREFOX 17 IS RELEASED!
Wait... what? How can that be? Isn't FF16 jus
FIREFOX 18 IS RELEASED!
GAAH! Stop i
FIREFOX 19 IS RELEASED!
I...
FIREFOX 20 IS
FIREFOX 20
FIRE
FI
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
I
I
I
I
.
.
.

SINGULARITY

A movie by the Mozilla Foundation

Re:Firefox 16 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37185800)

FEDORA not Firefox! Fedora is a Linux distro lmao.

Shit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37183922)

Fedora is shit. Loonix is shit. FOSS is shit. Only proprietary OSes are any good such as AmigaOS, Windows or Mac OS X. Loonix and Unix are such pathetic piles of shit that they are shitty ripoffs of Mac OS X.

Re:Shit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37183952)

You get what you pay for.

Re:Shit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184096)

Seriously?! That's your attempt at trolling? 'Loonix'? I'm trying no to, but I cannot help but laugh. Talk about impotent.

Re:Shit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184216)

Hey, faggot. I don't give a shit what your gay ass thinks. Go fucking get assraped and then lynched.

Most trolls say toiletnix (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184266)

It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality', which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to paedophilia.

What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken advocates:

  • Linus Torvalds [microsoft.com] is an anagram of slit anus or VD 'L,' clearly referring to himself by the first initial.
  • Richard M. Stallman [archive.org] , spokespervert for the Gaysex's Not Unusual 'movement' is an anagram of mans cram thrill ad.
  • Alan Cox [microsoft.com] is barely an anagram of anal cox which is just so filthy and unchristian it unnerves me.

I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual [goatse.fr] propaganda diatribe The Cathedral and the Bizarre, is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram for secondary rim and cord in my arse. It just goes to show you that he is indeed queer.

Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail [microsoft.com] , which is obviously sinister sodomite slang for 'Felch Male' -- a disgusting practise. For those not in the know, 'felching' is the act performed by two perverts wherein one sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into 'e-male.'

As far as Richard 'Master' Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually quoted [salon.com] on leftist commie propaganda site Salon.com as saying the following: 'I've been resistant to the pressure to conform in any circumstance,' he says. 'It's about being able to question conventional wisdom,' he asserts. 'I believe in love, but not monogamy,' he says plainly.

And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a flaming homo [comp-u-geek.net] slut [rotten.com] !

Speaking about 'flaming,' who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual [goatse.fr] perversion of corrupting the innocence of young children [slashdot.org] . To quote from the article linked:

'I've got a rare kidney disease,' I told her. 'I have to go to the bathroom a lot. You can come with me if you want, but it takes a while. Is that okay with you? Do you want a note from my doctor?'

Is this why you were touching your penis [rotten.com] in the cinema, Jon? And letting the other boys touch it too?

We should also point out that Jon Katz refers to himself as 'Slashdot's resident Gasbag.' Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few who aren't aware of the list of homosexual [goatse.fr] terminology found inside the Linux 'Sauce Code,' a 'Gasbag' is a pervert who gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his urethra (or to use the common parlance, 'piss-pipe'), then his homosexual [goatse.fr] lover blows firmly down the straw to inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the dignity and copyright of posters to Slashdot by gathering together their postings and publishing them en masse to further his twisted and manipulative journalistic agenda.

Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.

In addition, many of the Linux distributions (a 'distribution' is the most common way to spread the faggots' wares) are run by faggot groups. The Slackware [redhat.com] distro is named after the 'Slack-wear' fags wear to allow easy access to the anus for sexual purposes. Furthermore, Slackware is a close anagram of claw arse, a reference to the homosexual [goatse.fr] practise of anal fisting. The Mandrake [slackware.com] product is run by a group of French faggot satanists, and is named after the faggot nickname for the vibrator. It was also chosen because it is an anagram for dark amen and ram naked, which is what they do.

Another 'distro,' (abbrieviated as such because it sounds a bit like 'Disco,' which is where homosexuals [goatse.fr] preyed on young boys in the 1970s), is Debian, [mandrake.com] an anagram of in a bed, which could be considered innocent enough (after all, a bed is both where we sleep and pray), until we realise what other names Debian uses to describe their foul wares. 'Woody' is obvious enough, being a term for the erect male penis [rotten.com] , glistening with pre-cum. But far sicker is the phrase 'Frozen Potato' that they use. This filthy term, again found in the secret homosexual [goatse.fr] 'Sauce Code,' refers to the solo homosexual [goatse.fr] practice of defecating into a clear polythene bag, shaping the turd into a crude approximation of the male phallus, then leaving it in the freezer overnight until it becomes solid. The practitioner then proceeds to push the frozen 'potato' up his own rectum, squeezing it in and out until his tight young balls erupt in a screaming orgasm.

And Red Hat [debian.org] is secret homo [comp-u-geek.net] slang for the tip of a penis [rotten.com] that is soaked in blood from a freshly violated underage ringpiece.

The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! For example, the 'supermount' tool was devised to allow deeper penetration, which is good for fags because it gives more pressure on the prostate gland. 'Automount' is used, on the other hand, because Linux users are all fat and gay, and need to mount each other [comp-u-geek.net] automatically.

The depths of their depravity can be seen in their use of 'mount points.' These are, plainly speaking, the different points of penetration. The main one is obviously/anus, but there are others. Militant fags even say 'there is no/opt mount point' because for these dirty perverts faggotry is not optional but a way of life.

More evidence is in the fact that Linux users say how much they love `man`, even going so far as to say that all new Linux users (who are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda) should try out `man`. In no other system do users boast of their frequent recourse to a man.

Other areas of the system also show Linux's inherent gayness. For example, people are often told of the 'FAQ,' but how many innocent heterosexual Windows [amiga.com] users know what this actually means. The answer is shocking: Faggot Anal Quest: the voyage of discovery for newly converted fags!

Even the title 'Slashdot [geekizoid.com] ' originally referred to a homosexual [goatse.fr] practice. Slashdot [kuro5hin.org] of course refers to the popular gay practice of blood-letting. The Slashbots, of course are those super-zealous homosexuals [goatse.fr] who take this perversion to its extreme by ripping open their anuses, as seen on the site most popular with Slashdot users, the depraved work of Satan, http://www.eff.org/ [eff.org] .

The editors of Slashdot [slashduh.org] also have homosexual [goatse.fr] names: 'Hemos' is obvious in itself, being one vowel away from 'Homos.' But even more sickening is 'Commander Taco' which sounds a bit like 'Commode in Taco,' filthy gay slang for a pair of spreadeagled buttocks that are caked with excrement [pboy.com] . (The best form of lubrication, they insist.) Sometimes, these 'Taco Commodes' have special 'Salsa Sauce' (blood from a ruptured rectum) and 'Cheese' (rancid flakes of penis [rotten.com] discharge) toppings. And to make it even worse, Slashdot [notslashdot.org] runs on Apache!

The Apache [microsoft.com] server, whose use among fags is as prevalent as AIDS, is named after homosexual [goatse.fr] activity -- as everyone knows, popular faggot band, the Village People, featured an Apache Indian, and it is for him that this gay program is named.

And that's not forgetting the use of patches in the Linux fag world -- patches are used to make the anus accessible for repeated anal sex even after its rupture by a session of fisting.

To summarise: Linux is gay. 'Slash -- Dot' is the graphical description of the space between a young boy's scrotum and anus. And BeOS [apple.com] is for hermaphrodites and disabled 'stumpers.'

FEEDBACK

What worries me is how much you know about what gay people do. I'm scared I actually read this whole thing. I think this post is a good example of the negative effects of Internet usage on people. This person obviously has no social life anymore and had to result to writing something as stupid as this. And actually take the time to do it too. Although... I think it was satire.. blah.. it's early. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well, the only reason I know all about this is because I had the misfortune to read the Linux 'Sauce code' once. Although publicised as the computer code needed to get Linux up and running on a computer (and haven't you always been worried about the phrase 'Monolithic Kernel'?), this foul document is actually a detailed and graphic description of every conceivable degrading perversion known to the human race, as well as a few of the major animal species. It has shocked and disturbed me, to the point of needing to shock and disturb the common man to warn them of the impending homo [comp-u-geek.net] -calypse which threatens to engulf our planet.

You must work for the government. Trying to post the most obscene stuff in hopes that slashdot won't be able to continue or something, due to legal woes. If i ever see your ugly face, i'm going to stick my fireplace poker up your ass, after it's nice and hot, to weld shut that nasty gaping hole of yours. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Doesn't it give you a hard-on to imagine your thick strong poker ramming it's way up my most sacred of sphincters? You're beyond help, my friend, as the only thing you can imagine is the foul penetrative violation of another man. Are you sure you're not Eric Raymond? The government, being populated by limp-wristed liberals, could never stem the sickening tide of homosexual [goatse.fr] child molesting Linux advocacy. Hell, they've given NAMBLA free reign for years!

you really should post this logged in. i wish i could remember jebus's password, cuz i'd give it to you. -- mighty jebus [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Thank you for your kind words of support. However, this document shall only ever be posted anonymously. This is because the 'Open Sauce' movement is a sham, proposing homoerotic cults of hero worshipping in the name of freedom. I speak for the common man. For any man who prefers the warm, enveloping velvet folds of a woman's vagina [bodysnatchers.co.uk] to the tight puckered ringpiece of a child. These men, being common, decent folk, don't have a say in the political hypocrisy that is Slashdot culture. I am the unknown liberator [hitler.org] .

ROLF LAMO i hate linux FAGGOTS -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

We shouldn't hate them, we should pity them for the misguided fools they are... Fanatical Linux zeal-outs need to be herded into camps for re-education and subsequent rehabilitation into normal heterosexual society. This re-education shall be achieved by forcing them to watch repeats of Baywatch until the very mention of Pamela Anderson [rotten.com] causes them to fill their pants with healthy heterosexual jism [zillabunny.com] .

Actually, that's not at all how scrotal inflation works. I understand it involves injecting sterile saline solution into the scrotum. I've never tried this, but you can read how to do it safely in case you're interested. (Before you moderate this down, ask yourself honestly -- who are the real crazies -- people who do scrotal inflation, or people who pay $1000+ for a game console?) -- double_h [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, it just goes to show that even the holy Linux 'sauce code' is riddled with bugs that need fixing. (The irony of Jon Katz not even being able to inflate his scrotum correctly has not been lost on me.) The Linux pervert elite already acknowledge this, with their queer slogan: 'Given enough arms, all rectums are shallow.' And anyway, the PS2 [xbox.com] sucks major cock and isn't worth the money. Intellivision forever!

dude did u used to post on msnbc's nt bulletin board now that u are doing anti-gay posts u also need to start in with anti-black stuff too c u in church -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

For one thing, whilst Linux is a cavalcade of queer propaganda masquerading as the future of computing, NT [linux.com] is used by people who think nothing better of encasing their genitals in quick setting plaster then going to see a really dirty porno film, enjoying the restriction enforced onto them. Remember, a wasted arousal is a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church [atheism.org] . Clearly, the only god-fearing Christian operating system in existence is CP/M -- The Christian Program Monitor. All computer users should immediately ask their local pastor to install this fine OS onto their systems. It is the only route to salvation.

Secondly, this message is for every man. Computers know no colour. Not only that, but one of the finest websites in the world is maintained by a Black Man [stileproject.com] . Now fuck off you racist donkey felcher.

And don't forget that slashdot was written in Perl, which is just too close to 'Pearl Necklace' for comfort.... oh wait; that's something all you heterosexuals do.... I can't help but wonder how much faster the trolls could do First-Posts on this site if it were redone in PHP... I could hand-type dynamic HTML pages faster than Perl can do them. -- phee [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Although there is nothing unholy about the fine heterosexual act of ejaculating between a woman's breasts, squirting one's load up towards her neck and chin area, it should be noted that Perl [python.org] (standing for Pansies Entering Rectums Locally) is also close to 'Pearl Monocle,' 'Pearl Nosering,' and the ubiquitous 'Pearl Enema.'

One scary thing about Perl [sun.com] is that it contains hidden homosexual [goatse.fr] messages. Take the following code: LWP::Simple -- It looks innocuous enough, doesn't it? But look at the line closely: There are two colons next to each other! As Larry 'Balls to the' Wall would openly admit in the Perl Documentation, Perl was designed from the ground up to indoctrinate it's programmers into performing unnatural sexual acts -- having two colons so closely together is clearly a reference to the perverse sickening act of 'colon kissing,' whereby two homosexual [goatse.fr] queers spread their buttocks wide, pressing their filthy torn sphincters together. They then share small round objects like marbles or golfballs by passing them from one rectum to another using muscle contraction alone. This is also referred to in programming 'circles' as 'Parameter Passing.'

And PHP [perl.org] stands for Perverted Homosexual Penetration. Didn't you know?

Thank you for your valuable input on this. I am sure you will be never forgotten. BTW: Did I mention that this could be useful in terraforming Mars? Mars rulaa. -- Eimernase [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, I don't know about terraforming Mars, but I do know that homosexual [goatse.fr] Linux Advocates have been probing Uranus for years.

That's inspiring. Keep up the good work, AC. May God in his wisdom grant you the strength to bring the plain honest truth to this community, and make it pure again. Yours, Cerberus. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

*sniff* That brings a tear to my eye. Thank you once more for your kind support. I have taken faith in the knowledge that I am doing the Good Lord [atheism.org] 's work, but it is encouraging to know that I am helping out the common man here.

However, I should be cautious about revealing your name 'Cerberus' on such a filthy den of depravity as Slashdot. It is a well known fact that the 'Kerberos' documentation from Microsoft is a detailed manual describing, in intimate, exacting detail, how to sexually penetrate a variety of unwilling canine animals; be they domesticated, wild, or mythical. Slashdot posters have taken great pleasure in illegally spreading this documentation far and wide, treating it as an 'extension' to the Linux 'Sauce Code,' for the sake of 'interoperability.' (The slang term they use for nonconsensual intercourse -- their favourite kind.)

In fact, sick twisted Linux deviants are known to have LAN parties, (Love of Anal Naughtiness, needless to say.), wherein they entice a stray dog, known as the 'Samba Mount,' into their homes. Up to four of these filth-sodden blasphemers against nature take turns to plunge their erect, throbbing, uncircumcised members, conkers-deep, into the rectum, mouth, and other fleshy orifices of the poor animal. Eventually, the 'Samba Mount' collapses due to 'overload,' and needs to be 'rebooted.' (i.e., kicked out into the street, and left to fend for itself.) Many Linux users boast about their 'uptime' in such situations.

Inspiring stuff! If only all trolls were this quality! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

If only indeed. You can help our brave cause by moderating this message up as often as possible. I recommend '+1, Underrated,' as that will protect your precious Karma in Metamoderation [slashdot.org] . Only then can we break through the glass ceiling of Homosexual Slashdot Culture. Is it any wonder that the new version of Slashcode has been christened 'Bender'???

If we can get just one of these postings up to at least '+1,' then it will be archived forever! Others will learn of our struggle, and join with us in our battle for freedom!

It's pathetic you've spent so much time writing this. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I am compelled to document the foulness and carnal depravity [catholic.net] that is Linux, in order that we may prepare ourselves for the great holy war that is to follow. It is my solemn duty to peel back the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wire brush of enlightenment.

As with any great open-source project, you need someone asking this question, so I'll do it. When the hell is version 2.0 going to be ready?!?! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I could make an arrogant, childish comment along the lines of 'Every time someone asks for 2.0, I won't release it for another 24 hours,' but the truth of the matter is that I'm quite nervous of releasing a 'number two,' as I can guarantee some filthy shit-slurping Linux pervert would want to suck it straight out of my anus before I've even had chance to wipe.

I desperately want to suck your monolithic kernel, you sexy hunk, you. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I sincerely hope you're Natalie Portman [archive.org] .

Dude, nothing on slashdot larger than 3 paragraphs is worth reading. Try to distill the message, whatever it was, and maybe I'll read it. As it is, I have to much open source software to write to waste even 10 seconds of precious time. 10 seconds is all its gonna take M$ to whoop Linux's ass. Vigilence is the price of Free (as in libre -- from the fine, frou frou French language) Software. Hack on fellow geeks, and remember: Friday is Bouillabaisse day except for heathens who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins. Those godless, oil drench, bearded sexist clowns can pull grits from their pantaloons (another fine, fine French word) and eat that. Anyway, try to keep your message focused and concise. For concision is the soul of derision. Way. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

What the fuck?

I've read your gay conspiracy post version 1.3.0 and I must say I'm impressed. In particular, I appreciate how you have managed to squeeze in a healthy dose of the latent homosexuality you gay-bashing homos [comp-u-geek.net] tend to be full of. Thank you again. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well bugger me!

ooooh honey. how insecure are you!!! wann a little massage from deare bruci. love you -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Fuck right off!

IMPORTANT: This message needs to be heard (Not HURD [linux.org] , which is an acronym for 'Huge Unclean Rectal Dilator') across the whole community, so it has been released into the Public Domain [icopyright.com] . You know, that licence that we all had before those homoerotic crypto-fascists came out with the GPL [apple.com] (Gay Penetration License) that is no more than an excuse to see who's got the biggest feces-encrusted [rotten.com] cock. I would have put this up on Freshmeat [adultmember.com] , but that name is known to be a euphemism for the tight rump of a young boy.

Come to think of it, the whole concept of 'Source Control' unnerves me, because it sounds a bit like 'Sauce Control,' which is a description of the homosexual [goatse.fr] practice of holding the base of the cock shaft tightly upon the point of ejaculation, thus causing a build up of semenal fluid that is only released upon entry into an incision made into the base of the receiver's scrotum. And 'Open Sauce' is the act of ejaculating into another mans face or perhaps a biscuit to be shared later. Obviously, 'Closed Sauce' is the only Christian thing to do, as evidenced by the fact that it is what Cathedrals are all about.

Contributors: (although not to the eternal game of 'soggy biscuit' that open 'sauce' development has become) Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, phee, Anonymous Coward, mighty jebus, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, double_h, Anonymous Coward, Eimernase, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward. Further contributions are welcome.

Current changes: This version sent to FreeWIPO [slashdot.org] by 'Bring BackATV' as plain text. Reformatted everything, added all links back in (that we could match from the previous version), many new ones (Slashbot bait links). Even more spelling fixed. Who wrote this thing, CmdrTaco himself?

Previous changes: Yet more changes added. Spelling fixed. Feedback added. Explanation of 'distro' system. 'Mount Point' syntax described. More filth regarding `man` and Slashdot. Yet more fucking spelling fixed. 'Fetchmail' uncovered further. More Slashbot baiting. Apache exposed. Distribution licence at foot of document.

ANUX -- A full Linux distribution... Up your ass!

Re:Most trolls say toiletnix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184476)

tl;dr

Re:Shit (1)

kolbe (320366) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184936)

tl;dr

I'd rather not lose brain cells to this coward's dribble... might end up like them if I do... idiotic.

Beta is old hat! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37183942)

Now all the cool kids are running Alphas!

Does it have a decent desktop? (3, Insightful)

mattventura (1408229) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184090)

I upgraded to Fedora 15 (from 13) and was so horrified by Gnome 3 that I immediately installed Debian so I could use Gnome 2. Even the "classic Gnome" option is still unusable.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

Nimatek (1836530) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184134)

Pick the one you like: https://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-options#desktops [fedoraproject.org]
And it's not like you're limited to these few either. No matter what distro, you can always set up a combination of window manager, dock/panel, apps etc. configured precisely the way you like.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184360)

What if the one I like is no longer maintained?

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184552)

Fork it. Yoo ront.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (2)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184762)

Then...that's probably not something Fedora can do a lot about.

Didn't see the G2TJFW option... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184630)

That's the Gnome 2 That Just Fucking Works option...

F14 with Gnome 2 supported my 3 monitor setup beautifully. Gnome 3 just crashes, even in compatibility mode. I'm using Xfce, but it's still missing some of nice things that Gnome 2 had (eg cpu/io panel applets).

Re:Didn't see the G2TJFW option... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37188566)

https://github.com/paradoxxxzero/gnome-shell-system-monitor-applet/ is the answer

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37186000)

fucking apologist fucking fanboi fucking retard. gnome 3 sucks. using one of the other WMs doesn't change that. idiot.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184538)

Well, I tried using Fedora 15 KDE Spin and is was no better. Close to utter crap. Slow to boot and buggy as hell. Dolphin would crash every now and then. After a recent update, boot time nearly doubled and nothing got better, so I decided to install Arch. To my surprise, now KDE was fast, responsive and mostly bug-free. My point: Fedora is too "cutting edge", meaning perpetual beta-quality. So maybe Gnome 3 (or an iminent 3.x) will turn out to be a lot better than what Fedora and other premature releasers are dishing out.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184890)

I don't know... try Fedora 15 KDE from install DVD... works like a charm (if you know how to make your way through it though)
The tags and the nepomuk search and then the upcoming KDE 4.7 functionalities will make it the go to desktop supporting everryyything :)

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

DaVince21 (1342819) | more than 2 years ago | (#37191152)

Considering how Gnome 3.2 is supposed to be "filling the gaps" as opposed to the matured Gnome 2, that might very well be the case!

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (2)

Burdell (228580) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184600)

I switched to XFCE (on Fedora 15). It is similar to the GNOME 2 "look and feel", especially if you spend just a little bit of time moving things around (although the default XFCE "look" isn't bad either).

Really? (4, Informative)

neiras (723124) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184666)

I upgraded to Fedora 15 (from 13) and was so horrified by Gnome 3 that I immediately installed Debian so I could use Gnome 2. Even the "classic Gnome" option is still unusable.

You do realize that GNOME 3 Classic Mode only has a few user facing differences from GNOME 2, right?

1. You have to hold ALT when right clicking the panels in order to customize them. No more by-mistake applet moves.
2. Panels now allow you to snap widgets to the center. New feature!
3. There are fewer available panel applets, because the API changed. No more CORBA.
4. The unified System Settings dialog replaces the System menu. I miss the old Preferences but can live with this.

I have a GNOME 3 desktop that is practically identical to my old GNOME 2 desktop. Having changed the GTK theme from the black Adwaita theme, it even looks like GNOME 2.

Fallback mode pretty much *is* GNOME 2. I really don't get what all the bitching is about. Surely a few missing panel applets and a unified settings dialog aren't reasons to discard a desktop environment.

Re:Really? (5, Insightful)

mattventura (1408229) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184802)

1. You have to hold ALT when right clicking the panels in order to customize them. No more by-mistake applet moves.

How the hell is that at all intuitive or good UI design? In other applications, even on windows, you right click the toolbar to customize it. And what was wrong with the "lock to panel" option for applets?

Re:Really? (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185146)

It's not a bad idea, but they should prompt the user at least once to tell them. Hiding things in help files isn't a good way of doing things, especially not when the user goes and tries to do something and encounters different behavior.

Re:Really? (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185612)

Let's face it, it's a BAD idea. A STUPID idea. Keyboard mouse modifiers are BRAIN DEAD, awkward, and completely non necessary. There was nothing whatsoever wrong with the old way. Most important, everything was intuitive and discoverable. "By-mistake applet moves," MY LEFT BALL! Every applet was individually lockable in position in Gnome2. Anyone obsessed with fear that he might move them by "mistake" could lock them down, while the rest of us with at least a kindergarten level of motor coordination could leave them bloody well alone.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37188390)

I still use GNOME2 and me personally, the first thing I have troubles with when I use Windows is that I CANNOT move my windows by holding Alt, and with left mouse button click and drag the window wherever I like it (using Alt to move stuff around is the GNOME2 standard behaviour, and I like that it seems they have not changed that).
So for me it would be great and intuitive if that also holds true for panels nowdays as well (have yet to try out GNOME3 besides a LiveCD a while back).

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37189104)

I wouldn't generalize here. Something I always miss on OS X and Windows for example is holding the ALT keyboard modifier, then using left click or right click (sometimes middle click) to move and resize windows, no matter where i click them. It's very intuitive (once you know of this feature of course). If you don't realize this feature exists, there's a mouse-only alternative, though (dragging the title bar or border of the window).

Re:Really? (1)

renoX (11677) | more than 2 years ago | (#37191106)

>> 1. You have to hold ALT when right clicking the panels in order to customize them. No more by-mistake applet moves.

> How the hell is that at all intuitive or good UI design?

Oh, it must be a good UI design since Microsoft does the same in Windows with the "shift+right click" menu that 0.0001% of users know.
So it's not even a *new* UI mistake, it's an old one!!
Those who don't know history ... I guess.

Re:Really? (3, Informative)

fnj (64210) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185802)

The following is styled as if I am speaking to the Gnome developers, not the parent poster. If any of the following have been repaired since 3.0, I apologize, because 3.0 was so AWFUL it made me throw it on the floor within 5 minutes, and I haven't been inclined to waste any more time on the thing since then until I hear that all of the deficiencies noted below have been repaired.

You do realize that GNOME 3 Classic Mode only has a few user facing differences from GNOME 2, right?

The differences are actually significant and in the direction of LOSS of functionality. I guess you're not using the Drawer, Mini Commander, Weather, System Monitor, and CPU Freq Scaling applets, and I guess you don't have a simple compact digital clock with seconds and date in the upper right corner. Making it IMPOSSIBLE to set it up that way, and with control over the geometry, is NOT ACCEPTABLE because it is a GRATUITOUS loss of flexibility.

1. You have to hold ALT when right clicking the panels in order to customize them. No more by-mistake applet moves.

A stupid and pointless replacing of an intuitive and DISCOVERABLE operation by a HIDDEN and awkward one.

2. Panels now allow you to snap widgets to the center. New feature!

Allow? FORCE! That's not a feature, it's a bug. Give me CONTROL, dammit.

3. There are fewer available panel applets, because the API changed. No more CORBA.

I'm not an apologist. I'm a USER. I DEPENDED on those applets. Don't bore me with details of why your stupid infrastructure changes have led you to drop them. Just bring them back. ALL of them!

4. The unified System Settings dialog replaces the System menu. I miss the old Preferences but can live with this.

It's a pointless and needless complication, but yeah, it's not the most egregious of the mistakes.

I have a GNOME 3 desktop that is practically identical to my old GNOME 2 desktop.

That's nice for you, but I found that Gnome3 WOULDN'T LET me make a desktop that was even remotely like my old one.

Fallback mode pretty much *is* GNOME 2.

No, no, NO. It is NOT, and repeating that it IS, does not make it so.

Re:Really? (1)

DaVince21 (1342819) | more than 2 years ago | (#37191198)

You sound like you're a character from Beneath a Steel Sky, with all those RANDOMLY capitalized WORDS.

Re:Really? (1)

illtud (115152) | more than 3 years ago | (#37186722)

You do realize that GNOME 3 Classic Mode only has a few user facing differences from GNOME 2, right?

1. You have to hold ALT when right clicking the panels in order to customize them. No more by-mistake applet moves.

Yes, when I eventually found this I thougt that I had my old fc14 interface back, but I'm finding that this is serioulsy buggy. I don't know if it's a gnome problem or a FC15 problem, but the ability to do this comes and goes with the wind - when I saw this comment I tried it again, and the menu popped up, GREAT! I didn't select a damn thing then I tried it again, no menu. I have this machine I'm typing this on which I wish I'd never upgraded to FC15. My machine at work will stay at FC14 because it's my dev machine in an enterprise with a team of devs waiting on my say-so to upgrade. FC14 is great for me, I wish I could stick with the UI for that but with updates for the libs and apps - I can't believe that RH can be following this Fedora death-ride, and I'm pretty sure that there's going to be a hard smack-down shortly.

My advice - stick to FC14 'til somebody at RH notices the stupidity of the gnome/FC15 upgrade and wait for the correction.

Re:Really? (1)

Errtu76 (776778) | more than 3 years ago | (#37187822)

My advice - stick to FC14 'til somebody at RH notices the stupidity of the gnome/FC15 upgrade and wait for the correction.

You do realize that RH doesn't actually control what's going on in Fedora, right? Sure, a lot of Fedora developers work at RH but it's still a community distribution.

That aside, Fedora has always been about staying close to upstream. If you know this, you would also know that this means you get new 'products' sooner than other distributions. Eventually Debian and the like will also ship GNOME 3 if they decide to ship GNOME.

Re:Really? (1)

illtud (115152) | more than 3 years ago | (#37188868)

You do realize that RH doesn't actually control what's going on in Fedora, right? Sure, a lot of Fedora developers work at RH but it's still a community distribution.

Yes, absolutely. Will RH whacking them with a cluestick have an effect? Yes, absolutely. Where do you think Fedora would be if it wasn't an RH incubator and with no RH devs working on it?

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184672)

hear hear. I found a repo on the intertubes from someone that made it possible to reinstall Gnome 2. It took some trickery, but I'm now happily back in Gnome 2 on Fedora 15.

http://k3rnel.net/2011/06/15/bluebubble-faq

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

ReinoutS (1919) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184724)

How about you try it for more than 5 minutes (say, 5 days), instead of 'immediately' switching away?

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184944)

Use it for 5 days, get used to working around static elements in the UI you used to be able to change but now can't?

People can adjust to anything, that doesn't resolve the fundamental problems or arrogant attitude conveyed by the GNOME 3 environment.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37185024)

Use it for 5 days, get used to working around static elements in the UI you used to be able to change but now can't?

People can adjust to anything, that doesn't resolve the fundamental problems or arrogant attitude conveyed by the GNOME 3 environment.

Isn't the gnome 3 UI highly moddable through javascript?

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185042)

Is it?

I was under the impression that a lot of the configurability had been ripped out from the base. Even then, you shouldn't need to be familiar with Javascript just to be able to adjust the panel items (or color) or put items on your desktop.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (3, Informative)

ReinoutS (1919) | more than 3 years ago | (#37189388)

If you want to put items on your desktop, that's simple: use gnome-tweak-tool or set the org.gnome.desktop.background.show-desktop-icons property to true manually. The fact that this isn't enabled by default doesn't convey an arrogant attitude, but is a simple design decision that flows from the fact that Gnome3 doesn't implement a traditional desktop metaphor, and it wants to minimize visual distraction. For sure, this doesn't mean Gnome 3 is finished. It's only just taking off. There's a lot more in store in the area of 'finding and reminding' in upcoming releases, for instance. In the mean time you can try out some of the Gnome Shell Extensions [gnome.org] to tweak the environment to your liking.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

mattventura (1408229) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185052)

Here's the problem: I don't know Javascript, and even if I did, I shouldn't have to know a programming language to tweak my UI.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 3 years ago | (#37186660)

I did and came running to Windows 7. Let me tell you it was like a breath of fresh air and even that is better than Gnome 3 on a linux kernel. I can't get it to provide basic functionality. Can't even resize a Windows. ... ok later I found out a week later but even grandma knows what a minimize button is come on.

Now that is a big shame since Linux is a technologically supperior OS. But my desktop is not a server.

I have a 23 inch screen and not a phone to run Gnome 3.

Also, Microsoft already has a tile UI in Windows 8 that is loads better and more stable than Gnome. Why isn't it out? Because it is not ready nor customizable as much as the team feels it needs to be. Also Windows 8 still has the Windows 7 desktop too. Gnome 3 went from alpha to stable FAST. No testing. No R&D. No usability testing. Not even configuration! Good GOD

Sun donated 1 billion in usability for gnome 2 and it showed. They threw it away for a bunch of college kids with no expeirence with UI design and usability can do what looked cool on a phone. It is dead and no way in hell will I touch it.

I wish enough geeks would get together and rename gnome 2 into something else and fork it. Maybe do what happened with Samba when it forked and became back together in 2 different modes.

Gnome-shell and gnome 3 needed at least a year of development with UI changes before it would have been close. Instead the focus was on code and a 2 month rush to throw something for a gui on top of it.

The arragant attidue is needed indeed. I really can not use it all. I find it 25 years behind any gui including Windows 1.0. It is a pretty ovlm.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

lophophore (4087) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185496)

I used Gnome 3 for 3 days, and that was 3 days too many.

What were they thinking? Gaaaaaaack.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185820)

Took me 5 minutes to determine that it was such a regression functionally and in regard to flexibility, as to be garbage.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

DaVince21 (1342819) | more than 2 years ago | (#37191236)

Personally, I tried it for a few weeks. It's almost workable enough, but there were some big flaws that now make me use something else. Until they fix it. Which apparently they're trying to do now.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184778)

To be fair, that's ultimately a Gnome problem, not a Fedora problem (although I concede that, yes, Fedora has included it in their release, but that's the way it's always been; it brings back fond memories for me of the KDE 4.0 inclusion)

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185846)

Correctimundo. It is not anything "wrong" with Fedora. This is going to be rammed down everyone's throats in all distros for the simple reason that no one is going to be security patching Gnome2 any more.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 3 years ago | (#37186686)

Well Fedora is for desktops and workstations so yes it is a Fedora problem.

I just wiped it off my laptop and put Windows 7 on it. It is a shame because I love Fedora and it is my favorite Linux distro. However, I want a basic desktop.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184960)

Does it have a descent desktop?

Didn't you read the summary? Says right there it has KDE 4.7.

If You Can't Stand The Heat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184964)

get in the walkin.....

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37185082)

Call me crazy but I quite like the Gnome desktop in Fedora 15. On my old laptop it's very snappy and it gets out of the way when I don't want it around. I've not found any reason to dislike it compared to the old way and several reason why I think it's superior. Everyone else's mileage may vary and they can choose whatever they like.

When you make any change, no matter what that change entails, half the people will love it and half will hate it.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37186108)

I, for one, will rebel against the forces at GNOME3 with my last dying breath...

Hey, Fedora devs! How 'bout helping out us folks who run older hardware? The kind of hardware that F15 seems to have left behind. F12 was the last distro you issued that will still run on my P3-700 laptop (still slow, but usable), and F14 is the last one that runs on either of my "faster" machines (Duron 1.6/512MB and AthlonXP 2.4/768MB) without the abomination that is G3.

So, my modest proposal is to keep F14 from running into it's EOL a month after F16 is released. This will allow me to continue to use my old, still running fine, and I'd really like to keep it all out of the landfill, thankyouverymuch, hardware. This would also provide impetus for G2 devs to step up and show the G3 team how to get things done.

Yes, I could get new hardware, but why should I have to? How 'bout folks like the Helios Project that refurbs and donates machines to the needy? They're killing two birds with one stone - helping others while keeping the extra junk from poisoning the planet. After all, you don't see people bemoaning someone who toddles down the road in their Model A. In fact, they seem to hold a reverence for something so old to still be usable. I'm that way about my computers, calculators, and sliderules. You know what the kids are playing with right now? Cassette tapes and LPs. Good thing they haven't found the open-reel player yet...

Keep F14 (Tomcat?) alive until the G3 devs get their heads out of their respective asses, or allow me to install F16 (Falcon?) using G2 on a 512MB machine. Otherwise, I'm moving to Puppy or DSL or somesuch.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37187260)

> I, for one, will rebel against the forces at GNOME3 with my last dying breath...

Histrionic drama queen much? I hate gnome3 too, but it's hardly racism, poverty, starvation, or disease. Get a grip and grow up.

Re:Does it have a decent desktop? (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 2 years ago | (#37192174)

"Hey, Fedora devs! How 'bout helping out us folks who run older hardware? The kind of hardware that F15 seems to have left behind."

We've thought about it, and, no. Here's a nickel, kid.

(Fedora isn't the distro you're looking for. There are many that are.)

Not trying to upgrade again for a long while (1)

BrianMarshall (704425) | more than 3 years ago | (#37187190)

A few weeks ago, I installed FC15 (from FC 14). It didn't like my graphics card, so I didn't have as much chance to be horrified as some folks.

I couldn't find a gui app to see what services were being started. In a forum on fedoraforum.org, it said that one was "in the works".

Right. No problem. I went back to FC 14 the day I started this waste of time.

Re:Not trying to upgrade again for a long while (1)

DaVince21 (1342819) | more than 2 years ago | (#37191248)

And since it's in the works, you can count on it existing when the whole caboodle becomes more stable and accepted.

Another bad Fedora release. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184128)

Fedora has been going downhill.
Last release, there were a lot of well known, annoying bugs. Especially with the gnome3 ui.
This release is no exception.
The first thing I noticed is fedora 16 alpha cd takes forever to boot now in virtualbox.
I don't know if this is some kind of regression or feature creep, but it is painful in virtualbox.
Another problem is that when gnome3 finally managed to pop up on screen, it had to use fallback mode. This is understandable since vbox doesn't have 3d acceleration. No biggie, I accept and try booting into fallback mode. I am almost immediately shown a screen with a X{ (dead face) saying that gnome 3 has experienced an unrecoverable error. So I wasn't even able to get to a working ui... good job fedora, another release that doesn't even work in _virtualbox_

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (3, Informative)

supersloshy (1273442) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184186)

It's an alpha release. Expect it to not be stable and still have some kinks that need to be worked out before release. Just report everything you find (if it's not reported already) and hopefully they'll get fixed.

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (1)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184582)

It's an alpha release. Expect it to not be stable and still have some kinks that need to be worked out before release. Just report everything you find (if it's not reported already) and hopefully they'll get fixed.

A nice way to describe Fedora as a whole.

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184746)

I would agree. And that's NOT a bad thing. Fedora's whole point is to not be a stable, long-term distro so that it has a lot more latitude in which it can experiment. If you're looking for stability and running Fedora, you're the one who's wrong.

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (1)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184848)

True, in a sense. But it should say so in the "box". A better worded version of "hey, shit tends to break every once in a while, but it's par for the course" somewhere in the website would be nice. Like Debian, that is pretty straightforward about its "unstable" and "testing" branches (both which tend to be more stable than Fedora, in my experience with them).

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185912)

Duh; there is no box. But Fedora is up front about telling you that it is essentially the testing sandbox for Red Hat Enterprise linux. If you don't like bleeding edge, and you don't want to pay for RHEL [redhat.com] , just use one of the clones; PUIAS [ias.edu] , Scientific Linux [scientificlinux.org] , or CentOS [centos.org] . They are absolutely free and absolutely stable, with a long supported life, and are supported with security updates and bug fixes.

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (1)

walshy007 (906710) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184776)

While fedora does tend to be bleeding edge, there is a fair bit of difference between that and _alpha_.

Very good for developer systems, been using it since before ubuntu even existed.

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 3 years ago | (#37186714)

I switched to Fedora because it was more stable than Ubuntu.

I know I will probably be modded down as a troll here but my wifi chipset will not work well with any verison of Ubuntu after 7.10. Java apps are buggy and ugly with a 2 year old bug that make them look like Java 1.0/Motif apps. I emailed connical twice and they said ... well its a bug in java not our problem etc. Many java haters I see here who say it is ugly run Ubuntu.

With Fedora my wifi chipset works, java apps look native, and I never have a problem with dependencies like I did with Ubuntu. Yes apt-get can get dependency hell too if you download software off the repositary with conflicts and scattered .conf files. I was trying to fix font rendering issues with Java and gnome with unoffical patches. I find yum mixed with the later rpm versions better with dependencies. Its not the .rpm hell of 2000 anymore and if an installation fails it will delete the files rather than keeping them all over.

Fedora just seems stable for my computers and less flakey. I have never had an issue with Fedora being alpha quality since Fedora core 2 many years ago.

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (1)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184206)

All you've managed to do is tell me you don't like Gnome 3 and have problems with Virtualbox.

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185984)

You are dying of thirst, crawling in the desert, and come upon the dead carcass of a camel, the only sign of life you have encountered in two days. Instead of realizing that you are after all probably going to die of thirst very soon because there is no rescue, you remark that your problems are due to the camel's design being lacking, and the fact that their owners let camels die.

Face it. The desert is a hellhole, and you probably shouldn't have gone there to spend your summer vacation in the first place.

(The desert is Gnome3; the dead camel symbolizes what happened when Fedora 16 alpha met VirtualBox; I haven't figured out what this has to do with your comment, except you're implying VirtualBox is somehow at fault when a myriad of other linux distros work just fine under it)

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (2)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184282)

We don't support VirtualBox. Mainly because the Fedora kernel developers consider it a pile of...well...something awfully rude. If an issue with VirtualBox is isolated and traced back to something being wrong in Fedora, sure, it'll likely get fixed, but VBox is not something Fedora actively tracks and tests for.

Fedora supports the qemu/kvm/libvirt/virt-manager virtualization stack, and we do test that quite extensively. But running as a virt client is required functionality for Beta, not Alpha.

(FWIW, though, recent VBox releases _do_ have 3D passthrough, and I've seen reports of people getting it working with F15. So it sounds like you maybe have an old VBox?)

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184924)

VirtualBox is still a better option for running Windows guests as the vbox graphics drivers make things quite a bit more usable. However, that's really the only reason I've come across for using VirtualBox over KVM in an workstation capacity. KVM/libvirt is a much better choice for Linux guests. I think it would be a waste of time and resources for Fedora to support VirtualBox (esp. considering who's in charge of vbox's fate).

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 3 years ago | (#37186006)

We don't support VirtualBox.

VirtualBox is essentially an x86 host. Fedora is supposed to run on pretty much any x86 host (special hardware features aside). Please consider "supporting" VirtualBox.

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (1)

walshy007 (906710) | more than 3 years ago | (#37186624)

If it runs on real hardware it should run on your VM, if it doesn't the problem is with your VM, not fedora. simple

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184284)

The first thing I noticed is fedora 16 alpha cd takes forever to boot now in virtualbox.
I don't know if this is some kind of regression or feature creep, but it is painful in virtualbox.
<snip>
good job fedora, another release that doesn't even work in _virtualbox_

Now you understand why virtualization is evil.

Re:Another bad Fedora release. (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185858)

Mod parent up. It's a perfectly arguable point.

Are panels still broken ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184308)

Does it still "feature":

- the immutable top bar ?
- a missing task bar ?
- no applets whatsoever because weather or CPU speed distract people from work ?
- no shortcuts on desktop nor panel ?
- unmovable date/time in the center because it's not distracting at all (as opposed to all other applets which are a big no-no) ?
- the helpful "if snap to top then maximize" operation that makes moving up windows a tedious multi-click operation ?
- no menus combined with a phone-like laundry list of "apps" icons that can only be reached after watching an animation that puts all my windows on the desktop followed by a required click on "applications" ?
- no shutdown option when logged in ?
- frustratingly slow operation compared to the "distracting" Fedora 14 ?
- many other user-friendly features that I missed ?

If so, then sign me up! Praise the Gnome usability gods for forcing upon me the right way to use my computer!

Re:Are panels still broken ? (3, Funny)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184558)

yes, those are serious bugs but they put out a patch. [debian.org] Things have been much better for me since I applied that patch to my hard drive.

Re:Are panels still broken ? (1)

walshy007 (906710) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184642)

Writing this on fedora 15 myself, have none of the things you listed.

Whats that? you used gnome which have been known for their 'lets remove every feature under the sun and turn it into an apple product' for years?

If you were using gnome the gnome 3 disaster was bound to happen, just because of the mentality of the developers. Don't hold it against them though they are just doing what they like. It is usually a good idea to use software whose developers have similar goals to you though, unless you have the power to maintain a fork which most don't.

I like kde (and it has none of the problems you mentioned), but really most power users should be at home with anything that allows them to sort through their windows and has a few widgets on the side for common things.

The dvd releases of your distro of choice usually comes with a bunch of window managers and all the software you're likely to need that you would usually acquire off the net too. So easiest option is to just do that.

Re:Are panels still broken ? (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184780)

If by 'it' you mean 'GNOME 3', and we ignore the inaccuracies in your rant for the sake of concision, then yes, yes 'it' does. But Fedora is not GNOME 3, so why are you posting about this here? Fedora features at least eight desktops, two of which are equally supported as 'premier' environments - GNOME 3 and KDE - and two of which are fairly actively supported and tested - Xfce and LXDE.

Re:Are panels still broken ? (1)

sensei moreh (868829) | more than 3 years ago | (#37185196)

and one of which (LXDE) I'm using quite happily. I did have to revert glibc to version 2.14-6 instead of the current 2.14.90-4 because the latter keeps crashing Firefox (but not Chrome).

Re:Are panels still broken ? (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 3 years ago | (#37186048)

That's absolutely true, but the DEFAULT face that Fedora presents the unsophisticated user is Gnome, and Gnome3 is a sad excuse for a DE (Gnome2 was fine). If Fedora doesn't care about unsophisticated users, that's fine; I have no quarrel with that; but it is something that could be fixed simply by demoting Gnome3 and making one of the other decent DE's the default.

Re:Are panels still broken ? (1)

bahstid (927038) | more than 3 years ago | (#37187510)

this.

Already in this thread there are so many "Fedora SUX" type comments, and its beyond me that people won't at least try another desktop before heading off elsewhere... with Ubuntu (and presumably all the other default gnome distro's) all getting the same response, this is turning into a "Linux SUX" issue, especially for first-installer types...

What concerns me in particular, is that at least with the KDE 4.0 debacle, there were quite a few "This is BAD... But I can see it being good in a few versions" type comments.... with Gnome 3, can't think I've seen a single positive comment, at best "changes are sorta manageable".

(KDE *is* really nice now too (Fedora 15 here)... in the same way that gnome is now giving people a poor impression of a lot of distro's I think the poor implementation in Kubuntu has caused a lot of ill will towards KDE too, although I can't speak for recent versions )

Input Indicator (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184446)

Good thing they fixed that Input Indicator thing. Maybe they'll also fix it so that it's as easy as it was in GNOME 2 to actually install and activate the input methods. Or is using languages other than English too complicated for users and therefore we shouldn't be doing it?

Re:Input Indicator (1)

kolbe (320366) | more than 3 years ago | (#37184970)

I think anything Gnome 3 will ever try to do will be too complicated for users... it'll never amount to anything but rubbish. Gnome 2.32.1 http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.32/ [gnome.org] was the last good version.

That was on my wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37184560)

I regularly switch between English and Canadian French layouts, and Chinese Pinyin input method, so a unified input indicator is a godsend. The other thing on my wishlist is a proper integrated virtual keyboard (I use a touchscreen all-in-one PC), which is scheduled for 3.2 I believe, and then I'll make the switch. I for one like where gnome is going--I'm just in a hurry for it to get there.

Still hiding buttons? (1)

tenco (773732) | more than 3 years ago | (#37186066)

I tried to use LyX 2 with Gnome 3 but couldn't save the path to my custom TeXLive installation in it's settings because the buttons to do so went amiss...

Just say "no" (1)

lobotomy (26260) | more than 3 years ago | (#37186556)

No thanks. Not going to try Fedora 16, ever. I am staying with Fedora 14 for the next few years. Maybe then I'll evaluate the state of desktop interfaces and see if anyone has come to their senses and stopped trying to foist some hipster-designed tablet interface on us. I have work to do with my computer, thank you very much, and that abomination known as Gnome Shell will not allow me to do it.

Re:Just say "no" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37187154)

XFCE.

Re:Just say "no" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37188456)

XFCE

Nope, not even close (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37187484)

Fedora 16 went from the CD burner to the garbage can in about 30 minutes after a quick test drive. Had not seen the new Gnome until now.....don't want anything else to do with it.

You can still use GNOME 2 with Fedora 15 (2)

sunr2007 (2309530) | more than 3 years ago | (#37187656)

I was pretty frustrated with GNOME3 and just when i thought of giving up and going back to Fedora 14 i found this [1]. I now have a GNOME2 and it works like a charm. [1]http://k3rnel.net/2011/06/22/bluebubble-the-fine-manual/

!@#$%$^ GPT partitions... (2)

evilviper (135110) | more than 3 years ago | (#37187742)

I can't !@##$%^& believe how Redhat and Fedora can't handle GPT right to save their !@#$@#% lives...

RHEL5 should have included the GRUB patches to handle booting from GPT partitions... They did not. When it was released, 1TB SATA drives were available. RAID-5 with 4x1TB drives? Sorry, no, can't boot from it, unless your RAID controller is smart enough to divvy it up into pieces to make up for for the idiots at RH. I've gone through all kinds of !@##$% because RHEL5 is THE enterprise Linux operating system, and yet it doesn't !@##@$% support installing to, or booting from GPT partitions, which means you're limited to 2TB volumes, max.

Okay, so they made a bad decision, but newer versions will solve all our problems, right? Wrong! Fedora goes back and forth with @$#$%%$^@ bugs around ANACONDA and GPT. Today, I can boot-up with a Fedora 15 disc, go through the menus, take a quick look at the layout, and find I've got 1/3rd unallocated on my 3TB hard drive, because it's using old msdos partitions, and there's no way for me to tell it to use GPT. @#$#$^$%! Put a GPT signature on it you say? Okay, now ANACONDA detects the disk is corrupted and asks if it should abort or wipe it out...

Partition everything manually, you say? Well I would, but GNU parted is absolutely the most god-awful tool I've ever used...

Okay here goes... mkpart 1GB 10GB
WARNING: Not aligned, performance will be terrible... Ignore/Cancel?

WTF? It converts my human units into billions of sectors, and can't be bothered to round it off to the nearest multiple of 8, or friggin' ask me if I want it to do so? Who the hell made this crap? Math is what computers are so damn good at, WTF do I need to pull out a pocket calculator to partition my !@#$#$% computer in the year 2011?

Redhat drives me nuts. Imagine if the most popular luxury sports-car maker out there engineered their cars so that they couldn't be driven for more than 1hr straight, before shutting-down and needing to be restarted. That's the kind of fundamental stupidity we're talking about, here. Middle-of-the-road consumer hardware is over 2TB now, when are they going to fix this !@#$#%?

I know, I know, I don't need to use parted. Someone else had half a brain and hated parted, too, and made gdisk just for this purpose: http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/ [rodsbooks.com] It doesn't take away from the sheer idiocy of either project...

Re:!@#$%$^ GPT partitions... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37190070)

RHEl 6 does. RHEL5 at that lifecycle period SHOULD NOT have any new features. Only security and stability patches allowed.
they know what they are doing.

Re:!@#$%$^ GPT partitions... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37190396)

I, too, have been waiting for Fedora to get its act together on GRUB2 and GPT support. There's been no excuse,
they've had it as a proposed feature/project for at least 3 releases now, they've jammed other significant disruptive
features down our throat such as NetworkManager, PulseAudio and systemd that took well over a release cycle
to stabilize, but they keep shying away from this.

I have had GRUB2 and GPT working on a 1TB external USB drive for about a year now, thanks to Ubuntu. It was a
very painful experience, took a lot of careful research to determine how to partition the drive using 'parted', including
setting the bios_grub flag, etc. It seems to work reasonably well, but I'm still not confident that it's 100% correct or
optimized, but I was able to install and boot some Linux distros on it for use with my Acer Aspire netbook - Ubuntu,
openSUSE 11.4, Mandriva (since upgraded to Mageia), but not Fedora 15, whose installer crashed when pointed to the drive.

Trying to install Fedora 16 Alpha x86_64 on my AMD64-based laptop onto a brand-new, just-unboxed 3TB Seagate USB3.0
drive gave me a blank stare when it came to the disk drives. It sees the spindle, and it sees the huge NTFS partition the
vendor sprayed on it, but offered no clue - i.e., didn't propose a suitable partition scheme that might be appropriate - and
I decided at that point that it was just as futile under F16 as it was under F15, F14, F13, ...

Reviewing the various documents on the Fedora Project website gleaned dusty project plans for features that were proposed
for earlier releases, but no indication as to what the current status of support for GPT is now. Very, very pitiful...

Next time someone claims that Fedora is the bleeding-edge Linux release, I'll be able to laugh in their faces.
After using Linux as my primary day-to-day desktop for 17 years or so, maybe it's time to move over to a Mac, and
save the 3TB drive for that.

Re:!@#$%$^ GPT partitions... (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 2 years ago | (#37192292)

A USB 3.0 drive? Way to test two variables at once, dude.

When you say "It sees the spindle, and it sees the huge NTFS partition the vendor sprayed on it, but offered no clue - i.e., didn't propose a suitable partition scheme that might be appropriate", what point of the installation are you talking about? Because the point at which it _discovers_ drives and the point at which you choose a partition scheme are different. Also, if you select any of the pre-set partitioning options - 'Use free space', 'Use entire disk', 'Replace existing Linux partitions' - Fedora will come up with a partition scheme for you. If you choose 'custom partitioning', it won't, because hey, _you chose custom partitioning_, which means you want to do it yourself. If the disk is entirely consumed by an NTFS partition you'll need to pick 'Use entire disk', because there's no 'free space' or 'existing Linux partitions', so if you try either of those methods, anaconda won't have any space to put Linux partitions into.

"I decided at that point that it was just as futile under F16 as it was under F15, F14, F13, ..."

Might I suggest the shocking, nay, _radical_ thought that a more complete test might be TO FINISH OFF THE FRACKING INSTALLATION BEFORE YOU SPRAY VITRIOL ALL OVER SLASHDOT?

Whew. Sorry. I feel better now. But, I mean, come on.

F16 uses gpt disk labels by default, for all disks. There's no reason it shouldn't work on your disk, if you pick an appropriate partitioning method.

Re:!@#$%$^ GPT partitions... (1)

g1zmo (315166) | more than 2 years ago | (#37192276)

...RHEL5 is THE enterprise Linux operating system...

Then:

Middle-of-the-road consumer hardware is over 2TB now...

Yes, but even high-end enterprise hardware is not up against those limits yet.

Why Grub 2? (1)

red crab (1044734) | more than 3 years ago | (#37188510)

I don't think there was ever a need for GRUB2. Its complex and bloated. Seems like Linux is going more and more towards the proprietary Unix philosophy - doing simple things in difficult way.

Re:Why Grub 2? (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 2 years ago | (#37192310)

"Grub (legacy) is no longer supported. Patches are not accepted. Grub2 is also nearing a stable release (14-May-2011 GRUB 1.99) which is something that Grub (legacy) never reached. "

Upstream support, essentially. But yeah, our installer team isn't terribly happy with the design of GRUB 2 either. It's a choice between two evils.

Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37191114)

When Apple released their semi-transparent desktop I though that
it's yet another fad like acrylic cases and the round mouse. After all,
we had Windows 2000 and Linux to get the job done.

Windows XP was not too bad because it had a decent compatibility
mode, but recent versions of Windows made Mac look good again.
At that point Linux could win the desktop by doing nothing.

Unfortunately, Gnome 3 has tied the race to the bottom again.
I'm staying with Fedora 14.

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