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PS3 Counter-Strike To Support Keyboard and Mouse

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the what-took-you-so-long dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 168

RogueyWon writes "Eurogamer reports some encouraging news for console-bound fans of online shooters. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, the new stand-alone version of the wildly successful Half-Life mod recently announced by Valve, will support mouse and keyboard controls on the PlayStation 3. This isn't entirely unprecedented; 2007's Unreal Tournament 3 had a similar feature, but the idea has never gained momentum. If the idea of allowing PC-style controls on a console does catch on, could this help remove some of the stigma associated with first-person shooters on consoles?" Players of the Xbox 360 version will still be required to use controllers, and they won't be able to participate in cross-platform play. Valve boss Gabe Newell has had a hard time convincing Microsoft to open up Xbox Live enough to integrate services like Steamworks.

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168 comments

Hard time convincing Microsoft? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220100)

Why does that not surprise me?

Re:Hard time convincing Microsoft? (1)

mackil (668039) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220132)

It is a bit surprising considering Gabe worked at Microsoft [wikipedia.org] for many years.

Re:Hard time convincing Microsoft? (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220262)

On the other hand, after working at MS, he went on to found Valve, which begat Steam, the (now cross-platform) online gaming/distribution/DRM/etc. platform that is widely regarded as utterly murdering "Games for Windows Live" on basically every level. It isn't clear that they would necessarily be buddies anymore, at least while on the clock...

Re:Hard time convincing Microsoft? (2)

Kreigaffe (765218) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220764)

I don't know that it's fair to say it's murdering GFWL. GFWL was dead right out of the gates, and it's microsoft's fault.. and GFWL was really just a knockoff of Steam anyway.
Microsoft had several years to look at Steam and copy it before launching GFWL, somehow they did not and instead they... well. They released GFWL. It's terrible. Their XBox service isn't bad, but for PC? Eeeewwwww

Re:Hard time convincing Microsoft? (1)

AJH16 (940784) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221364)

Honestly, I like Steam for delivery, but I really like the Games for Windows Live client built in to games for the shared achievements and such. Would personally love to see Steamworks and Live get along.

Re:Hard time convincing Microsoft? (1)

ifrag (984323) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221178)

platform that is widely regarded as utterly murdering "Games for Windows Live"

Considering that Game for Windows Live was practically stillborn, I'm not really sure how much murder was really necessary...

Awesome. (4, Insightful)

DeeEff (2370332) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220114)

This is what the industry needs.

speaking of what the industry needs... Where's my episode 3 Gabe!?

Re:Awesome. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220154)

It's right over here, stored in the closet of Fuck You We Had More Fun Writing Portal 2 And Most People Seem To Think It's A Lot Of Fun Too So You Go Suck It.

We have a lot of closets and label them accurately.

-Gabe

Re:Awesome. (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220202)

I could see portal being linked directly into HL. Likely this linking point will be EP3. We're close now, as in Portal 2 (spoiler) you leave the facility. There's some links between the things said in it (and Portal) and events in HL.

Re:Awesome. (1)

pyrosine (1787666) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220894)

It is - at the end of episode 2 (right before Eli Vince was killed), Gordon was brought in on the project of checking out the Borealis - which is described as the main research facility for aperture labs (or at least it presumably is seeing as after it was lost, they could no longer compete for the government grant that black mesa went on to win). Not to mention the multiple references in portal to black mesa.
Unless you are insinuating that they link in the portal gun device - that would certainly be interesting.

Re:Awesome. (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221174)

I expect that to happen, but those other things you mention are exactly what I was alluding to. I was trying to avoid outright saying it out of consideration for those who haven't played.

Re:Awesome. (1)

RMingin (985478) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221016)

Portal 2 takes place hundreds of years after the HL2 episodes, so I'd HOPE Freeman is done with the Combine by then.

The linkage point between HL and Portal remains the Borealis... and possibly also the incendiary lemons.

Re:Awesome. (1)

HAKdragon (193605) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221242)

Spoliers!

You also leave the facility in Portal - until they retroactively changed the ending. Also, Portal 2 is supposed to take places hundreds of years after the first.

Re:Awesome. (4, Informative)

Erioll (229536) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220164)

There was a rumour a while back that the UT players on the PS3 using M+K were just destroying the controller players. Which is not a surprise to me in the least.

I too hope this to become universal. It is the #1 reason I can't play FPSs on consoles, because I feel like I'm playing with one hand tied behind my back when using the controller.

Re:Awesome. (2, Insightful)

Rockoon (1252108) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220196)

Even the really really bad Keyboard and Mouse players will be accused of cheating by the Controller players.

Re:Awesome. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220448)

And then there is me destroying people with Keyboard+Trackball, then telling people afterwards and they all cry and moan at me.
My fingers can MOOOVE baby.
Feels good to be GODLIKE.

Re:Awesome. (4, Insightful)

robmv (855035) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220966)

UT3 PS3 allow creation of games with restrictions to the kind of control used. It is the best solution, do you want to play only with controller? search for games that do not allow Keyboard and Mouse, you do not care? search any game. Controller player accuse keyboard player of cheating? tell him to learn to search and kick him

Re:Awesome. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220258)

Yeah but so is everyone else, hence FAIR.

Re:Awesome. (2)

medv4380 (1604309) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220324)

This is how it felt playing Quake 3 on the Dreamcast. If you opted for a mouse and keyboard setup it felted like the controllers players were just ROFL Stomped.

Re:Awesome. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220676)

Multiplayer UT3 games on the PS3 could be set up as controller only, keyboard and mouse only, or mixed. This info was displayed in the games list so users could choose which games to enter. Now if only there were people actually playing it...

Re:Awesome. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220814)

Which is why this is just stupid. I like the feel of a controller, but I'll admit it's just not efficient compared to a mouse. That doesn't make a mouse "better" for first person shooters, it just makes it easier to win. To me, part of the fun of FPSs on consoles is trying to deal with a really high sensitivity and still aim accurately with my thumbs. Not to mention the fact that inherently by using a controller there are some actions you can't perform without taking your thumb off the joystick.

Bottom line: I enjoy my inefficient joysticks and I just want a level playing field.

Re:Awesome. (2)

skids (119237) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221122)

I don't enjoy the "challenge" of having to move the stick 1/3rd of the way over before it does anything at all, and then watching it jerk way further than I needed. It's actually immensely annoying.

As far as having to take your thumb off the stick to perform certain actions, if you map your UT3 controls correctly (jump and weapon select on L3/R3) melee,fire,alt-fire,and multi-action on L1-2,R1-2 you should pretty much not have to take any of your fingers off anything when it matters. It takes some practice to use a light touch even during panic situations, and you'll have to build up your pinky muscles to keep a proper two-finger posture, but once you get the hang of it you can pull off a few moves that cannot be done with K+M.

Re:Awesome. (1)

enderjsv (1128541) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221282)

I agree with you. I always remember some guy saying he enjoyed a certain pc game but got tired of it when everyone got good enough to bunny hop through a corridor with a sniper rifle pulling off headshot after headshot. I feel like the ease of aiming with a mouse is almost detrimental to FPS games and makes them campy sniper fests. The difficulty in aiming with a controller broadens the width skill and makes the game less about point-and-click and more about movement and strategy.

I like to compare it to racing. Ask any driver if he would prefer to race with an automatic or a manual gear shift, and I bet most of them would say manual. It's just more fun that way, even if automatic is easier.

Re:Awesome. (2)

skids (119237) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220972)

Well, as someone who plays UT3 with a controller, I can say that it is more challenging than K+M, however, almost 80% of the challenge is due to the completely assinine and untunable dead zone the coders put into the controller driver. Which is surprising in the case of UT3, given it allows a lot more controller tuning than 99% of the games out there. (You can tune the dead zone, BTW, the choices are 10 levels between "completely unusable" and "I have arthritis so please keep me from walking off cliffs"

Re:Awesome. (1)

MichaelKristopeit500 (2018072) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220974)

i've played a few of the PS3 FPSs that support the Playstation Move device... i play on a 140" projection screen sitting about 10' away... i find that it's extremely accurate and my effective response time is less than it would be if i used a keyboard and mouse to get the same level of accuracy per shot.

the problem is the smaller the screen, the lower the accuracy... but for my setup, i'm much more happy with move support than K+M support... especially if it's going to be a PS3 only feature anyways.

Re:Awesome. (1)

ildon (413912) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221066)

You're forgetting that this is Counter-Strike. Aiming has only a minimal effect on where your bullets will actually land. Except for the very first shot from the AK47, assuming you're crouched and not moving.

Re:Awesome. (1)

Riceballsan (816702) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220266)

Personally I would actually preffer MS's idea. Yes K&M players will take gamepad players to the cleaners every time, but sometimes you just want to relax and play the game on a comfortable couch, leaning back with a controller in your hand, in a closed ecosystem where players can only use gamepads, the controls being gimped isn't a huge flaw because the opponents controls are also gimped, you can still have a fair match with both sides being comfortable. You open up precision of a K&M, you take away the option to fairly compete while being comfortable. I don't really get the benefit of cross platform gaming, if you preffer K&M shouldn't you have the game on the PC anyway?

Re:Awesome. (3, Informative)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220352)

Nothing stops your from sitting on a couch with a keyboard/ mouse combo and playing games. I've done it before, and on a wired system too. It's not bad, actually, and I imagine a wireless setup would make it almost completely painless. Much better than using a controller, IMO

Players 2 through 4 (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220822)

Nothing stops your from sitting on a couch with a keyboard/ mouse combo and playing games.

Except the fact that one to three other people in your house also want to play, and they didn't bring their own PS3, TV, and copy of the game. I've never seen any practical setup for split-screen gaming with a mouse and keyboard.

Re:Players 2 through 4 (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221384)

Why can it not be done exactly like the controller version?
Hell, some players could use controller and some mouse and keyboard on the same ps3.

Re:Awesome. (2)

Erioll (229536) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220386)

I have not bought ANY fps games on consoles because of this issue (closest is metroid, and that at least had lock-on, and such, and so was OK). And there ARE exclusives, so no, I can't necessarily play some games, so the company is losing money because of this.

If you want to put out separate matches for each type, then fine, have you able to set up matches with controller-only, K+M only, or mixed. But don't just cut it out entirely. They ARE losing sales from this policy.

Re:Awesome. (0)

enderjsv (1128541) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221346)

I really don't understand this argument. I mean, I can see how you prefer M+K, but it's not really that hard to play with a controller, once you get used to it. I know like a dozen people who all had that M+K only mentality and used to complain so much about controllers. I ask them now and they still say they prefer M+K, but don't mind playing with a controller at all so long as everyone else is. It's really not that hard to get used to. Try it out. You're missing out on some pretty good games.

Re:Awesome. (1)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220404)

Personally I would actually preffer MS's idea. Yes K&M players will take gamepad players to the cleaners every time, but sometimes you just want to relax and play the game on a comfortable couch, leaning back with a controller in your hand, in a closed ecosystem where players can only use gamepads, the controls being gimped isn't a huge flaw because the opponents controls are also gimped, you can still have a fair match with both sides being comfortable. You open up precision of a K&M, you take away the option to fairly compete while being comfortable. I don't really get the benefit of cross platform gaming, if you preffer K&M shouldn't you have the game on the PC anyway?

You're right. Why go outside and play football when I can play foosball inside? I'm too tubby to fit out the door anyways...

Re:Awesome. (1)

DeeEff (2370332) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220644)

I personally prefer K&M for shooters, but controllers for action/arcade/rpgs/fighters. Maybe it's just me, but having the choice is nice.

And besides, it gives you the chance to play casually and play seriously. Play casually against friends, play seriously for ranking? Sounds about right.

Re:Awesome. (2)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221232)

Where's my episode 3

It's done. In fact, it's been done for years now. But the Valve got so tired of listening to all the whiny bitches complain about it not coming out, that they decided to shelve it permanently. A final gold copy of it sits in a special display case at Valve HQ, along with printouts of a bunch of quotes from fans screaming "WHEN IS IT COMING OUT?! WAAAHHH!!!" Every day employees at Valve walk in, see it and laugh--subtly reminded that whining about a release date won't make it come any sooner.

It's a real shame too. Because it was supposedly the best of all the episodes.

Dreamcast games used a K+M combo... (1)

APE992 (676540) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220136)

And Quake III for the Dreamcast allowed for a mouse and keyboard too. Wake me up when this becomes universal.

Half-Life 1 on the PS2, too (1)

Shandalar (1152907) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220248)

Gearbox, who ported the original Half-Life to the PlayStation 2, also made sure to include mouse and keyboard controls.

Nice (2)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220142)

Prepare to see the superiority of mouse and keyboard controls demonstrated definitively.

Of course, we don't really need to see that because it's been done before. Quake 3 on the Dreamcast supported keyboard and mouse controls, and they made a huge difference. Network games between K&M players and gamepad players are totally one sided.

Re:Nice (2)

Nethemas the Great (909900) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220246)

This isn't how the universe was meant to work! Keyboard and mouse on a console will only lead less disappointing PC ports. When will people get it through their thick skulls that the universe meant for all console to PC ports to suck most awesomely.

Re:Nice (3, Insightful)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220474)

Prepare to see the superiority of mouse and keyboard controls demonstrated definitively.

I'm not sure I want to. I have no doubt they are, but I don't want to have to set up a table with a keyboard and mouse, and get extra ones for my friends, anytime I want to play a FPS console game in the future and not get destroyed by people using better input controls. Is the controller a perfect input control? Not at all. But it's comfortable, compact, easy to use and doesn't require furniture. I don't want to have to make the choice to either sacrifice all that or get get constantly pwned by people who have in an unfair fight.

Re:Nice (2, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220780)

Well stay in the kiddie pool then. If you don't want to be competetive, don't play counterstrike.

Re:Nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37221258)

Well stay in the kiddie pool then. If you don't want to be competetive, don't play counterstrike.

I wouldn't call winning at a videogame "being competitive". Maybe you'd realize that if you got out of the basement once in a while...

TV tray (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220882)

I don't want to have to set up a table with a keyboard and mouse

I have a folding table that I've used for frozen dinners, a laptop, or a mouse and keyboard for the HTPC. Let me guess: in your household, nobody's allowed to eat outside the dining room.

Re:TV tray (1)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221084)

Haven't set any such rules for myself or my renters. There's an end table in the common room that we use for food sometimes but it's kinda low. not a big deal to lean over to cut some food once in awhile while you watch TV or a movie but I wouldn't want to use it for a keyboard or mouse and be that hunched over for an hour or more. Plus I want to be sitting much closer to the TV for a FPS then the couch where the big end table is. Like I said, I don't want to have to deal with another piece of furniture and moving keyboards and mice in and out of storage just to game. It just seems like an additional hassle that is antithetical to the purpose of a console system.

Sadly, this actually IS news. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220160)

The console makers go to such lengths to fit powerful computers into tiny boxes, with USB ports. Game studios can spend millions to make a new title. Yet somehow, most games give you a few input options at best, and don't take mice or keyboards. This is something that should take one man one day to implement. If only game makers cared to...

The ratio of customer satisfaction to programmer time investment should make this the default choice.

It's the console makers' fault (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220910)

It's not the game makers as much as the console makers. How about the console maker threatening to withhold approval (and the digital signature required to run on retail consoles) if a game other than an MMORPG uses the keyboard for anything but text entry? I've read that's Microsoft's policy on Xbox 360. I've said it before: the solution is for Acer and Dell to market their small form factor PCs (Aspire X1 and Inspiron Zino) as the fourth console.

Well it'd have to (1)

slimjim8094 (941042) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220172)

Counter-Strike is about the most serious that games get. Playing against even a moderately-good CS player, while on a gamepad, is a fantastic way to get your ass kicked up and down. Keyboard and mouse is the only way they have a hope of being a challenge. There's just no way on a console to turn rapidly but precisely. You can turn quickly, but imperfectly - or slowly but precisely. You can't fling the mouse across your desk and stop at the right spot.

So this is kind of a given for there to be any meaningful cross-platform play.

Re:Well it'd have to (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220220)

Unless you "cheat" and give the gamepads aim assistance... in which case you certainly know a new generation of aimbots will pop up to exploit this functionality.

Re:Well it'd have to (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220812)

Counter-Strike is about the most serious that games get.

CS is much slower compared to QuakeWorld and Q3/CPM though.

But why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220188)

If you are going to use the traditional PC controllers, why not just play it on the PC where you can get many times the performance and beauty? It's not like the "stigma" you mention is about anything other than the controllers already!

Not trolling, I just fail to see the point in insisting on using consoles for FPS games.

Re:But why? (1)

Miseph (979059) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220260)

Some people prefer to play games on dedicated game machines hooked up to much larger screens with more spacious seating arrangements. It's relatively easy to hook a computer to a TV, but if you already have a PS3 hooked up to it, it would be much easier to just use that instead.

I think a better question is why you think having *more* options, even if you ultimately choose the one you already use, is ever a bad thing.

Keyboards can be inconvenient (1)

Lieutenant_Dan (583843) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220380)

I'm not much of a gamer, but the whole console experience is for me to be sitting on the couch (or standing like a dumbass in case of the Wii/Kinect stuff) and play the game. To be using a keyboard I would have to be at a desk or table, which really would make it inconvenient. If I have to do that, then I might as well play the PC (or Mac, hahahahaha) version.

Two mice and two keyboards in split co-op (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220976)

dedicated game machines hooked up to much larger screens with more spacious seating arrangements

The big advantage of "more spacious seating arrangements" that I can see is when more than one person is in the room. Does Counter-Strike for PLAYSTATION 3 support two mice and two keyboards on two TV trays for split-screen team play, or does it require a separate PS3, TV, and copy of the game for each player?

Re:But why? (1)

Darthwickett (1741516) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220414)

Honestly, depends on the required specs. On a PC, game performance can run the gamut from horrible to transcendent. On a console, you know what time of performance you are going to get, every time. And since many people already own the consoles, but many not already have a capable gaming PC, the choice is simple for them. Personally, I agree with you, though. If you have a choice, PC is the way to go for FPSs, always.

What Intel GMA really stands for (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221006)

If you are going to use the traditional PC controllers, why not just play it on the PC

Because the PC that you already own has an Intel graphics processor. According to this chart at Tom's [tomshardware.com], Intel graphics is comparable to the original Xbox's GeForce 3 or to the Wii's Hollywood GPU, whose fill rate matches that of a Radeon 9000. Lately I've been recommending buying PCs with AMD CPUs just to make sure that people get either AMD or NVIDIA graphics, not Intel GMA (nicknamed "Graphics My Arse").

Re:What Intel GMA really stands for (1)

ifrag (984323) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221324)

Although Intel has been catching up gradually, it probably won't be too long before they actually have a usable product, like one that you can actually play some games on. And there is some advantages to sharing one memory space, particularly if new engines start trending towards heavy texture replacement. Serious gamers are still going to be buying the discrete cards with 10x the capability of consoles anyway. Carmack actually admitted that he does have RAGE working on the latest Intel graphics (but he admits not at a smooth 60fps).

This has me worried.... (3)

madhatter256 (443326) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220198)

"Cross-platform play between PC/Mac and PlayStation 3, as seen with Portal 2, is also confirmed."

So what does this mean for hosting your own server with custom maps/mods????

Any word if the multiplayer aspect is severly limited like in Left 4 Dead, BF: Bad Company 2, etc.??

It seems like theres a growing trend in shrinking the mod community... :-(

Re:This has me worried.... (1)

decipher_saint (72686) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220326)

I suspect it means that consoles will have some kind of "suck it" flag which excludes them from hosted content.

Meanwhile PC modders will continue having fun.

Re:This has me worried.... (1)

robmv (855035) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220992)

It depends the kind of mod, UT3 PS3 allows modding but no cross platform play. If you arrive to a host with a mod it download it, with the exception of maps that you need to download separately and install on your PS3 using UT3 UI.

Re:This has me worried.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220338)

According to TFA, you will be able to host your own custom maps, but skill-based matchmaking won't be available with them. This makes total sense, since one could theoretically design a custom map with "secret" spots to benefit either team and would allow matchmaking to be gamed. However, Valve has a strong tradition of incorporating user-generated maps into the "base package" if they prove to be popular -- so if you make a good map, you may be able to have a rated match on it someday.

Re:This has me worried.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37221148)

I'm not one to panic and hate on everything DLC, but I can see a pretty good argument for DLC being the reason why mod tools are not being released for a lot of games.

Why let users make free, awesome DLC when the company can churn out a few extra maps and models and charge $$ for them.

Typical microsoft... (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220206)

Honestly, the USB ports can support a keyboard and mouse. WTF is wrong with them?

if the FPS games sold on the Xbox platform supported Keyboard and mouse they would entice all the PC games to come on over.

Re:Typical microsoft... (1)

SecurityTheatre (2427858) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220284)

The problem is the huge advantage provided by a keyboard and mouse. Tests in the past indicated it wasn't even fun for console players with a gamepad to play against someone using a mouse and keyboard. Not even close.

So you just fracture the games into "gamepad" and "mouse" games, otherwise it's absurd.

Re:Typical microsoft... (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220318)

yea but now consolers have to worry about other consolers using mouse and keyboard now, how are you going to find a game that will be fun

Re:Typical microsoft... (1)

robmv (855035) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221090)

I honestly think all matchmaking implementations I have used are broken. They match players based on levels that is basically measure how much time have you played the game instead of the gamer statistics, the frequency you kill another player. A good matchmaking system and the control scheme do not matter, there are good controller players and there are bad keyboard and mouse players. What I hate about keyboard and mouse is not its superiority, if your definition of superiority is that you have a better kill ratio using it, is that it gives the player unrealistic attributes like allowing to turn 180 degrees in an instant, then you see player playing a military shooter that looks like a science fiction movie with players with super powers

Re:Typical microsoft... (1)

lexman098 (1983842) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221104)

I think they're hoping that the console gamers really won't care so much, and the ones that do will be drowned out by the ones that love being able to play cross-platform. If you allow PS3 to play with PC gamers on the same server then it's only fair to allow them to use keyboard and mouse too.

Re:Typical microsoft... (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221024)

So you just fracture the games into "gamepad" and "mouse" games, otherwise it's absurd.

No, you do it the easy way. If there's a keyboard and mouse attached to the console - the game is restricted to people playing with same. If you're using a gamepad, you're playing against people with gamepads by default, but have the option of going against people with keyboards and mice.

It's trivial to set up matchmaking like this.

And the Xbox360 does support a keyboard at least - you can use it to enter in messages and other stuff quickly, and even nagivate the UI.

My biggest issue is the whole cross-platform gaming thing. All it takes would be for some graphical or other glitch to affect one platform and not the other, and you'd have people exploiting it within a day. Sure you can patch it (PS3 users are well used to getting things patched every other day it seems), but it's still an advantage. And those are the glitches people report - cross-platform gamers may very well just keep them to themselves for pwnage.

Re:Typical microsoft... (1)

praetorian20 (1723296) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220348)

What's wrong with them is that if they allowed this, it would force all CS players on XBox Live to use a mouse and keyboard, otherwise they'd be getting their asses kicked by the ones who are using a keyboard / mouse instead of the gamepad. I don't know about you, but I like slouching on my couch, 10' away from the TV, while playing on my XBox.

Re:Typical microsoft... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220416)

or.. I don't know, they could have different games running on the servers based on which controllers the players were using..

Re:Typical microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220358)

No they wouldn't. Not even a chance.

first the consoles don't aim for high enough frame rates, they cant continually improve frame-rates by getting better hardware, the TV screens don't have true 120hz, you cant overclock anything like video card, processor, ram, or even usb port. You also cant tweak settings as well.

You are never going to see consoles overtake PCs for serious, competitive FPS gaming, at a high level.

p.s. and before I get the "you don't need any of that stuff, your eyes cant see more then 60fps/hz... blah blah blah." Save it. There is a perceivable difference, if you think there isn't you've never played a fps game at a high level.

Re:Typical microsoft... (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221266)

You are never going to see consoles overtake PCs for serious, competitive FPS gaming, at a high level.

But since the hardware is exactly the same between consoles, wouldn't that make consoles "better" because it's a level playing field and the overclocker guy with the newest video card won't have an advantage, and therefor a true test of skill and not hardware?

Re:Typical microsoft... (1)

brim4brim (2343300) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220828)

I don't think it would, I have all the consoles and a Pc and just buy games for Pc now. Got the 360 first, kind of regret it now. It is loud, slow, the interface is terrible unless your using it all the time in which case your probably use to it and overall it is just a poor experience compared to Pc gaming. The much touted evolving System Requirements have pretty much stopped since the companies started supporting consoles so well and the only actual remaining issue is sometimes poor control scheme in some Pc games and just poor console ports sometimes.

Re:Typical microsoft... (1)

ildon (413912) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221114)

The 360 actually does accept keyboard input, but developers are only allowed to let users use it for text input. Works great for navigating the Guide (or whatever they call it now). Developers cannot allow users to use the keyboard for any gameplay operations.

I'm guessing it has to do with not letting developers "do whatever they want" and "require" a keyboard indirectly (by supporting both and having one be superior) and to maintain a consistent and simplified user experience. I believe that's their reasoning at least.

Re:Typical microsoft... (1)

Aqualung812 (959532) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221150)

This isn't a key/mouse issue, it is an issue with Xbox Live being open to Steam players.

XBL users pay to be on there, and in return on of the benefits is that cheaters & assholes can by smitten with the ban hammer. They would have no authority over Steam players.

I used to be a big CS:S player on Steam, but now I enjoy using XBL & do all my gaming on there. I miss many things about PC gaming, and if I had the time & money I'd still do it. However, with the available time I have, XBL suits me fine.

Duh, finally! (1)

Dr. Spork (142693) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220240)

It's about time that the mouse was introduced to living room gaming. Today's wireless laser mice have the makings of an excellent controller not just for games, but also for living room media interfaces. And seriously, where are the downsides?

Re:Duh, finally! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220542)

The downside is you just added the cost of a mouse and keyboard to the cost of the game on consoles. It will be pretty much unplayable for anyone without it if they are going up against people that are and any organized teams will absolutely require it.

Borrow one from your PC (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221108)

The downside is you just added the cost of a mouse and keyboard to the cost of the game on consoles.

And how much did the instruments add to Guitar Hero or Rock Band, or the Wii Speak microphone add to Animal Crossing 3? I imagine that most PS3 gamers already have a PC with a USB mouse and keyboard, even if they don't game on it. So it's more like adding a USB hub and cable to the price of the game and possibly including a flyer for NewEgg.

About. fracking. time. (1)

Absolut187 (816431) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220244)

This is a positive development and it is about frackin time!
The PS3 supports USB or bluetooth mouse and keyboard out of the box. It is a total waste NOT to support this in FPS.
Forcing everyone to use the DualShock is just dumb. I don't buy FPS on PS3 for just this reason (unless it supports the Move like KillZone3).
People using the (expensive) FragFX devices have a huge advantage. (Bad news for the FragFX company tho. If this becomes a trend, they may be out of business).
So why not just support mouse/keyboard to begin with?
As a consumer and FPS gamer, I prefer as many options as possible.
Let us make our own input device decisions.

Xbox360 network and openness (1)

Necroman (61604) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220276)

With the release of the Xbox 360, Microsoft became much more controlling over the hosting of multiplayer services. As a developer, you are not allowed to run your own third-party servers. Any multiplayer experiences must be run by Microsoft. They seem to do this for a few reasons.

1) It allows their Xbox subscription charges to cover all multiplayer games. So Xbox owners don't need to pay subscription fees to other providers.
2) MS has full control of the servers. With some studios giving up on the multiplayer servers of games just a year or 2 after release, this seems to allow MS to keep the servers online longer.

I may be wrong on this, but from what I've seen, this seems to be the reasoning behing microsoft's multiplayer control.

Re:Xbox360 network and openness (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220494)

I almost wish Valve did the same with Steam multiplayer games. Who wants to use some BS Games for Windows system (for instance, one could also point out EA's Origin) on a game downloaded via Steam when Steam already has a (much) better multiplayer system builtin? But, of course, not being a monopoly on PC Valve can't do that. Unfortunately.

Re:Xbox360 network and openness (1)

Chaos Incarnate (772793) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221274)

Steam has a better multiplayer system now. A few years ago it didn't (no player-to-player support, just client/server). And it still has an inferior achievements & storage system (requiring one copy of the game to be purchased per player, instead of allowing anybody in the house to have their own achievement progress/saved games/configuration files).

I'm surprised at Microsoft (1)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220472)

I'd love to play games like C&C on my XBox since I don't have a comparable Windows system. I'll be damned if I'm going to use a controller for a RTS. Why not just sell a USB splitter that is designed to bring a keyboard and mouse together as a single controller so I can play these games?

Really bad idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220566)

The whole point of console gaming is the closer to level playing field - you shouldn't have much more of an advantage because of your gaming rig. Microsoft has already tried the PC vs. Console, and guess what, console players get creamed. Mouse and keyboard are too big of an advantage - and so all this will do is make for a very bad experience for those using the standard console controller.

PS3 mouse response too slow. (1)

Str1der (524776) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220696)

I've played fps's, including the Unreal Tournament series, for years using a keyboard and mouse. I love the responsiveness of the aiming and the ability to put the crosshair exactly wherever I need to and as quickly as I need to. I gave this a try using a keyboard and mouse for UT3 on the PS3 and was greatly disappointed. The mouse was not nearly responsive enough. There seemed to be many frames of lag between moving the mouse and seeing the result on screen. It was like aiming with a wet noodle. I've tried a few different mice and settings to no avail. At least with the PC there was usually some work around for this situation, such as turning down max pre-rendered frames to 1 or 0. Unless this issue is fixed I would honestly rather use a gamepad for FPS's on the PS3. I believe this is part of the reason the keyboard + mouse controls never caught on for the PS3.

Re:PS3 mouse response too slow. (1)

space_jake (687452) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220792)

I've tried hooking up the keyboard for use with Netflix on the PS3 and it had terrible responsiveness too.

Re:PS3 mouse response too slow. (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221382)

That may have something to do with the fact that the PS3 version is built for a controller. Just because they'll LET you use a k/m doesn't mean the game is going to act exactly like it would if you were playing on a PC.

Microsoft's reluctance (1)

grimmjeeper (2301232) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220754)

I had a thought. Dangerous, I know. But I wonder why Microsoft continues to fight having a keyboard/mouse hooked up to the 360.

It occurs to me that Microsoft is primarily in the business of selling Windows and desktop software. If someone hooks up a keyboard and a mouse to their console, they might actually want to start using the 360 as a full featured computer. I bet that the misguided souls at Microsoft are trying to "protect" sales of Windows by not allowing the 360 to be a "real computer". Their reasoning may be that if you don't let them use the 360 as a "real computer", you have to buy another copy of a Microsoft product (i.e. Windows 7) so you can do "real computing" on another device.

I also suspect, as was mentioned at least once already, that Microsoft wants nothing to do with having Windows Live interact with a service that is a direct competitor (i.e. Steam) for whatever reason. It may be another misguided attempt to corral all of their customers into buying just from Microsoft. It may also be a concerted effort to conceal something within the Live framework such as an incompatibility, significant performance problems, hacking vulnerabilities no one has found yet, or even patent infringements. One could speculate endlessly about such things but there is no way of really knowing for sure.

I know how console players feel about this. (0)

eddy (18759) | more than 2 years ago | (#37220800)

About three years ago I wrote a post on the Sony forums [playstation.com] where I tried to offer up some suggestions for how I felt they could improve on the PS3 firmware with a minimum of effort. One of those suggestions was to "Encourage mouse support in games". I'll spoil the first two answers I got:

Write a book why dont u

and

use a mouse to play games wth?

and just as a bonus, another one...

btw PS3 not a pc game no mouse

... and so on and so worth for a page or two. That's where I gave up trying to communicate with Sony.

Re:I know how console players feel about this. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37220988)

Those replies weren't from Sony. Just wanted to make sure you knew that.

Re:I know how console players feel about this. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37221072)

I was going to make a "ME TOO!!!!" joke, but then I read the entire thread. I didn't think it was possible, but they're stupider than AOL users.

Re:I know how console players feel about this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37221190)

I have this feeling that tune (that of the gamers who responded to you) would change significantly once they started getting pummeled endlessly and ruthlessly by keyboard/mouse players and realized why.

Sadly, I'm guessing the way in which it would change would probably be endless whining to either nerf the keyboard and mouse or give more and more advantages to the gamepad.

Re:I know how console players feel about this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37221280)

This is the same behavior you get everywhere if you make a reasonable suggestion to people who are happy with "simplicity".
Basically it boils down to "not my problem, I have nothing to say really. but since you mentioned, even if there is no change for me, I still don't like that you want to have another option than I do so I'll ridicule you."
"works for me, we don't want your kind" bla bla

PS: I don't find readjusting the crosshair in a cumbersome way over and over again simple in any way. It shouldn't be too much effort to design a "pad" as big as a mouse to put on either side of your body with say 12 buttons on it to move and do actions. a normal numberpad would almost be perfect already.

Microsoft has already comented on no KB&M supp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37221248)

They don't want to associate "complicated" inputs with a living room device, or give the impression their system is harder to use then using a controller. If they wanted that they would of delivered a real PC gaming platform.

haha (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37221296)

"Valve boss Gabe Newell has had a hard time convincing Microsoft to open up Xbox Live enough to integrate services like Steamworks."... uh yeah, it's called competition

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