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156 comments

wrong argument (1, Informative)

toQDuj (806112) | about 2 years ago | (#37238474)

So if I understand correctly, the argument for getting mandriva boils down to: "Use it because it's older than Ubuntu"?

Re:wrong argument (2)

econolog (2081738) | about 2 years ago | (#37238540)

They are targeting hipsters?

Re:wrong argument (0)

davester666 (731373) | about 2 years ago | (#37239258)

No. Maybe 40+ year old basement dwellers...

Re:wrong argument (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239354)

People of basement origin, lol.

Re:wrong argument (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239636)

Basement-Americans have rights too. We've been oppressed all these years and treated as slave labor to the neighborhood's computer users who want us to "fix it nerd" for little to no cost.

I say it's time we stand up, put on some sunscreen and march on the Capitol to demand our equal rights and an unfair Equal Opportunity law to force employers to hire us based on our dwelling situation.

Re:wrong argument (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238560)

"Use it because it's older"?

it works for the Catholic Church !

Re:wrong argument (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238716)

Naaah. The Catholic Church likes young boys.

Re:wrong argument (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238654)

Use it because it is more stable than Ubuntu. Use it because it's not trying to shove junk packages you don't need, like Ubuntu does. Use it because you have the balls to stray from your mundane little group of popular branded products, unlike Ubuntu users. Use it because it has prettier wallpaper.

Or, you know...don't. No one really cares.

.

Re:wrong argument (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238980)

Use it because the first thing it does on installation is prompt you to pay for stuff that's free everywhere else. In a world where you get what you pay for, that's proof enough of superior quality and functionality.

Er, wait...

Re:wrong argument (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239306)

Mandriva handbags don't sell as well as Ubuntu ones. Development has to be paid for somehow.

(Free speech vs free beer circle jerk starts here)

Re:wrong argument (0)

maverickjesterx (2434230) | about 2 years ago | (#37238986)

don't

Re:wrong argument (1)

maverickjesterx (2434230) | about 2 years ago | (#37239000)

Don't......and btw....everyone is leaving such nice comments on the main Mandriva page. Like hey nice too bad you can't put it on your downloads page. Now their downloads page atm is completely blank.

Re:wrong argument (1, Insightful)

mysidia (191772) | about 2 years ago | (#37238780)

I'm not sure they're using it as an argument to favor Mandriva over Ubuntu.... but it is true.

It boils down to "Use Mandriva because it's more mature".... well, in that respect, you could say "Use DOS 6.0 or Windows NT, because it's older"

Anyways... if an OS is more mature, and the newcomer doesn't offer a significant advantage, what is the reason to not use the older solution, again?

Especially when Ubuntu has done some, err.... unwanted things with their GUI :-/

What did Torvalds say about Gnome3 (the new solution) again? Something about it being an 'unholy mess [slashdot.org] ', right?

Re:wrong argument (1)

SquirrelDeth (1972694) | about 2 years ago | (#37238892)

Well Slackware is older than Ubuntu was well. And I have used Slackware since 3.6. Do I get a cookie or something?

Re:wrong argument (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238962)

Slackware sucks monkey balls.

Re:wrong argument (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239006)

You say it like it is a bad thing. I have news for you, while wanking is good, having someone suck your balls at times is even better.

Re:wrong argument (1)

PixetaledPikachu (1007305) | about 2 years ago | (#37239044)

that's the problem. I'm not a monkey

Re:MORE MONKEY PUSSY FOR ME! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239598)

that's the problem. I'm not a monkey

Do you know how long it took me to teach it to suck my dick without peeling it first?

- Dave Chapelle

Re:wrong argument (1)

WillKemp (1338605) | about 2 years ago | (#37239668)

As far as i remember i started using Slackware with v2.3, but i jumped ship to Redhat several years later. Slackware's package management system was the main drawback. I can't imagine using it today.

Re:wrong argument (1)

shibashaba (683026) | about 2 years ago | (#37239660)

I was pointing out why it is relevent to some of us.

And yes, maturity can be a great thing in a linux distro. Mandriva has around for years for and can easily be adapted for running servers, desktops, thin clients, clusters, and even embedded systems if you try hard enough. Not to mention having been ported at one point or another to just about desktop/workstation platform.

It grows on you, for those of us that have better things to do than type in sudo all day long, spend time configuring or building a system from scratch when defaults will do, but want easy access to take advantage of all the flexibility of linux just when and were we need it.

And yes, I realize that's a run on sentence. For the trolls out there, some of us also have better things to do than just try to sound intelligent on a web forum.

Re:wrong argument (1)

OolimPhon (1120895) | about 2 years ago | (#37239824)

Did they actually manage to get the thin client server/client packages working properly in 2011? All I ever found were cut/pasted Fedora packages which were never tailored for Mandriva, so never worked.

As I use LTSP a modern version would be useful.

As for the rest, I agree with most of the above.

And in other news (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238476)

Mandriva 2012 will be coming out in 2012!

Get the fuck out with all the goddamn version breaking newsflashes.

That goes for everything Apple, Firefox, Chrome, and pretty much everything else unless it has SOMETHING NEW AND WORTH DISCUSSING.

Re:And in other news (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238498)

Shut up.

Re:And in other news (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238512)

You must be great at parties.

Re:And in other news (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238570)

You must go to some pretty fucking lame parties.

When Mandriva was Mandrake... (2, Interesting)

MindPrison (864299) | about 2 years ago | (#37238484)

...it was in fact a useful distro, it was compatible with most computers on the planet, all kinds of exotic hardware, I absolutely loved it.
But then it became Mandriva (aka Mandrivel...), economical support issues, fleeing contributors, and the support for obsolete hardware was coming apart until the distro became completely useless, first to fail was basic SoundCard support, even the soundblaster series...that worked fine under the Mandrake distro name...failed on several basic issues...such as...SOUND! -_-

One of the most wonderful things about Mandrake was that you could almost get 3D out-of-the-box, an Nvidia installer was just a click away *kind of like ubuntu today, but Mandrivel...? Things that worked before...broke, again because of the competent contributors fleeing (something about certain benevolent leaders...)

Ubuntu is going the same ways these days with UNITY, more splitting than unity if you ask me...everything is about tablets & touch screen, everyone wants to be modern...but what is modern? Have we forgotten all about functionality?

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (2, Informative)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 2 years ago | (#37238510)

I recall one release of Mandriva that had lots of support requests on the forums for not working sound.

The problem: by default the volume control was turned down completely! Just turning up the volume solved it. Silly.

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (2, Insightful)

MindPrison (864299) | about 2 years ago | (#37238536)

I recall one release of Mandriva that had lots of support requests on the forums for not working sound.

The problem: by default the volume control was turned down completely! Just turning up the volume solved it. Silly.

Whats even sillier - is to release an official distro with such a basic flaw, and call it user friendly.
Many people this particular distro was aimed at - had NO clue how to use the alsamixer command from the terminal.

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (2)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 2 years ago | (#37238558)

I recall it was even simpler, that you could fix it from within the default user interface: the volume control button in the task bar. You didn't have to call alsamixer or so. But nevertheless it was really silly and should have never been released like that. And silly enough to be memorable!

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (1)

SquirrelDeth (1972694) | about 2 years ago | (#37238898)

Funny I thought if you wanted something from the command line all you did was ask in the form of typing and BAM there it was. Like alsamixer for example type in "alsamixer" in a terminal and it is there like magic.

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (1)

somersault (912633) | about 2 years ago | (#37239482)

The problem there is that there are an infinite number of things you can "ask" for in the command line. You can get a shorter list by using tab completion, but it's not exactly a very convenient way of finding things, especially if you don't know a program even exists to change the thing you want to change. What if the only way to change what you want to change is edit a config file? Again it's not exactly very obvious, especially if you are used to using a different sound subsystem, or aren't even aware that there are different sound subsystems in Linux, etc.

Your argument would hold sway for someone that has chosen to use a CLI-only environment, but for a graphical interface it's a pretty universal thing to be able to change the volume from the system tray or equivalent. I certainly wouldn't expect the whole of an OS to be configurable via GUI, but there are a few basic things like volume and display settings that should be.

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (1)

WillKemp (1338605) | about 2 years ago | (#37239690)

"apropos" is the solution. But someone who doesn't know "alsamixer", probably doesn't know "apropos" either!

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (1)

somersault (912633) | about 2 years ago | (#37239836)

Interesting, thanks. I knew alsamixer, but not apropos :p Google has always been my "apropos"..

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (1)

ModernGeek (601932) | about 2 years ago | (#37238602)

This seems to happen to Debian ... a lot.

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 2 years ago | (#37239622)

Knoppix seem to use low PCM settings and higher gain to. Increasing the general volume then will decrease sound quality / make it more noticeable.

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238608)

Unity: the touch interface that doesn't work on touch screens.

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (1)

rubycodez (864176) | about 2 years ago | (#37238956)

Unity: the touch interface no one would with a seven foot pole.

Stosh the 3.5 meter Pole: "I no toucha dat junity jakksy"

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about 2 years ago | (#37238762)

I loved everything about Mandrake, but had to abandon it because I could never get it to recognize my ethernet card - be it on-board or add-on. So connecting to the internet was a non-starter.

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 2 years ago | (#37239222)

...it was in fact a useful distro, it was compatible with most computers on the planet, all kinds of exotic hardware

It wouldn't detect the HD on my laptop, and it was nothing exotic.

At that point I moved on to the next CD on the pile - Dead Rat - and it just worked.

I've used it and CentOS since. The only problem I have is that they never seem to like my network cards.

When linux just worked and you could get shit done (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239470)

Yes, tell me what distro has working cut/copy paste. No bullshit, no infinite buffer, no middle click crap, no special program, just cut/copy paste.

Now tell me it has a GUI I can get shit done with, has not ripped out functionality for vapid eye candy, removed features that allow an install to be debugged, told the emacs fanbois to get bent and stuck wayland in the desert where it belongs.

Re:When linux just worked and you could get shit d (3, Funny)

qbast (1265706) | about 2 years ago | (#37239876)

For getting the shit done, the best interface is still toilet.

Re:When Mandriva was Mandrake... (2)

Wowsers (1151731) | about 2 years ago | (#37239594)

Having used Mandrake and Mandriva, the problem with the sound system can be put down to two events. The introduction of KDE4 which was pushed out into a working distro before KDE4 was really ready (and no way back to KDE3 which p'ed off a LOT of users). Then there's the introduction of PulseAudio (although one of the developers was most helpful in tracking down bugs I had found which he pushed out patches into the main distro).

While not the fault of PulseAudio, there are packages that still do not behave nice with it, in particular the hopelessly outdated Skype (who still do not have a 64bit version in static / dynamic - and Linux users don't all use Ubuntu).

I would say the financial wrangling of Mandriva did not help, and the ultimate sacking of key developers who setup Mageia distro may have given a good kick up the backside of Mandriva... all be it too late to save all those that jumped to Mageia.

Still alive?! (1)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 2 years ago | (#37238488)

I didn't know Mandriva is still alive. I've used them for the better part of a decade, first Mandrake, later it became Mandriva. They had so many problems: near bankruptcy, and for a while completely seemed to have lost it completely. Their distro anyway was a bit hit and miss, one great release followed by a mediocre release and then a great one again, but overall I loved it. Some three years ago I made the switch to Ubuntu because of all that - and Ubuntu seemed to have the better future. Also Ubuntu has an LTS option, saves me having to do a complete upgrade so often. Keeping things as they are for a while is nice when you're using the computer to get actual work done.

Any current experience with Mandriva? Are they still good? Worth trying again?

Re:Still alive?! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238658)

No. It's fucking trash. Don't bother.

The only people who use it are desperate old neckbeards who still think they have a hope of fucking that one girl who smiled at them three years ago.

Re:Still alive?! (5, Informative)

slack_justyb (862874) | about 2 years ago | (#37238726)

Please note:
I've got no beef with the way Ubuntu, GNOME 3, KDE 4 work. If that's your cup of tea then still give Mandriva a try, you may in fact like it.

Real quick I want to address one thing...

Also Ubuntu has an LTS option, saves me having to do a complete upgrade so often.

Mandriva will have an LTS option hopefully by the end of this year. Tour of 2011 [mandriva.com]

Politics in the Mandriva world have played out to start emulating the Ubuntu release cycle sans the two a year release. Instead we will see a normal Mandriva release once a year with regular patches for 1.5 years after release. Starting at the end of this year will be the LTS line. No word on how often a LTS will come out but 2011 LTS will receive patches for 3 years.

Any current experience with Mandriva? Are they still good? Worth trying again?

I would dare say that one of the big things that has held Mandriva back is KDE. Mandriva 2011 supports KDE only, no GNOME mess here. KDE's polish over the several iterations since the 4.0 disaster really shows here in Mandriva. Many things are being addressed and there are plans to make normal GTK+ applications more KDE friendly (like how SuSE has made their firefox integrate into KDE nicely.) The biggest thing I think is that Mandriva understands that a lot of people are getting annoyed with the sudden changes in favorite applications and desktops.

The standard kicker is replaced with a Mandriva specific kicker that I think is a good compromise between modern and classical application menus. Amarok is not present in this release, instead is Clementine, which is loosely based on the Amarok of 1.4 days. KMail (and everything it brings) is not present either, instead is Thunderbird from Mozilla. LibreOffice 3.4 is used, which I think is the best version out there thus far and the most useful for day to day operations. (side note:) A few Windows users at our company were switched off of Office 2007 to LibreOffice 3.4.2 and have had really great results in their day to day operations; so much so, we may be moving them off Windows altogether. The users only need TN5250 emulation, Microsoft Exchange support, modern web support, and an Office suite that can connect to DB2 and do Pivot Tables.

Finally, the package manager is what I would call sane for most Linux heads. Yeah it's not dumbed down like the Ubuntu store but I think most people will enjoy what they see here. Overall Mandriva 2011 offers a desktop that I think will rival Ubuntu. With all the compromises that they have made with KDE between new hotness and what we all enjoyed from the Linux desktop pre-Mac OS X copier era, I think this distro will start to fill a ever-growing niche of old school Linux users that enjoyed DE as they were.

Re:Still alive?! (1)

Xtravar (725372) | about 2 years ago | (#37238884)

Mandriva 2011 supports KDE only, no GNOME mess here.

I'm a huge Mandriva fan. I've been using it for 8+ years in some way or another. And I'm also a huge Gnome fan.

Will I hate my life if I try to stick with Mandriva + Gnome? Am I better off switching distros?

Re:Still alive?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239418)

Yes, since there is almost no one taking care of gnome. The only packager who didn't switched distros and who is taking care of gnome do not have hardware good enough for gnome-shell or newer version of gnome. I heard that Fedora and Opensuse have fine gnome integration, evenif Fedora may be too bleeding edge for everybody.

Re:Still alive?! (3, Informative)

colin_s_guthrie (929758) | about 2 years ago | (#37239852)

You can always try Mageia. There are several people working on both the GNOME and KDE side of things and you should be in very familiar territory if you have previously become accustomed to Mandriva.

Re:Still alive?! (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | about 2 years ago | (#37238968)

Mandriva will have an LTS option hopefully by the end of this year.

And who will maintain that? Every now and then Mandriva dramatically cuts its work force. You can't properly maintain a distribution for 3 years and additionally even release non-LTS versions at the same time without any engineers left.

Red Hat and SUSE both employ hundreds of engineers. That's why they are successful. How many engineers does Mandriva have left? 5? It certainly can't be that many if they need to drop anything but KPW as available and supported desktops...

Re:Still alive?! (3, Informative)

slack_justyb (862874) | about 2 years ago | (#37240004)

It certainly can't be that many if they need to drop anything but KPW as available and supported desktops...

I wouldn't call dropping everything but KDE as proof that they have very few contributors left. SuSE includes GNOME but officially supports KDE, Slackware dropped GNOME long time ago and doesn't include them at all. GNOME 2 was tricky to build and maintain. GNOME 3 is in, "I don't even know" land. GNOME with all of its dependencies, vast array of configuration options for each dependency, and magic order of build instructions for each dependency; does not tend to be easy to maintain a workable tree from source. A couple of people have built build systems that do nothing but build [gnome.org] GNOME. [gnome.org] Thankfully, most builders have given up on their own build systems and have gone to JHbuild.

KDE on the other hand is a pretty straight forward process to maintain a working tree. You can check it out here. [kde.org] Of course, that's something that the average user isn't going to do but there again we are talking about Mandriva. They have to maintain a working tree of the DE and still include their things. GNOME/KDE aren't targeting a single distro, they are making a DE for whoever. Distro have to take that and add and remove what works for their distro. To do this with GNOME is almost like putting stitches in yourself. KDE is very easy to customize distro-wise.

Red Hat and SUSE are successful because they have stuck to a single and coherent vision for their brand of Linux, because they have a good sales model that pushes support for their brand of Linux, because they have played major roles within the Linux community in general which attracts community contributors to use and support your distro, and because they have had strong word of mouth within the community.
Mandrake had that as well, but as you can tell from some of the comments here on Slashdot, that all changed with when they purchased Conectiva. I don't know if they got inflated head syndrome or what, but the quality of software and the number of upstream contributions began to cool quite a bit. Bug reports were not being followed up by Mandriva engineers and the community wasn't taking up the slack either, so bug reports would go on for months and months with no answer. Hardware support issues abounded as not incredibly smart defaults were chosen, the most famous (infamous) example is the decision to ship the distro with the main volume on mute.
The distro has had its hard core followers and commercial users who have stuck around, but as I noted in my last post, the politics behind the distro have played out into two things: Focusing on KDE alone and better release schedule. Those two things will make it easier for the community and Mandriva to support the distribution.
Finally, you have to remember that we are talking LTS for their free product. If you are a company you can purchase their "enterprise" Linux which has a different support cycle than the community version. Also, Mandriva has forty-five engineers to date, most of them are in Brazil (which by the way is very KDE heavy country.)

Re:Still alive?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239940)

I think this distro will start to fill a ever-growing niche of old school Linux users that enjoyed DE as they were.

I think the niche for old school linux users is called Slackware.

distrowatch link with isos (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238514)

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=06862

Cheers!

-United Anonymous Cowards

Re:distrowatch link with isos (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 2 years ago | (#37238642)

thanks

worst software name ever (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238520)

I haven't been able to touch Mandrivel since the moronic and unbearable name change.

SOUNDS GAY !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238522)

Yo !! Bob !! What OS is that you use again ??

It's Mandriva, Betty, Man-Dree-Va.

OK !! Bob !! (office laughs collective ass off)

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Laughing is good for you, too !!

Re:SOUNDS GAY !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238972)

At least it no longer has the anagrams "dark amen" and "ram naked" (which is what they do).

It's Linux (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about 2 years ago | (#37238524)

So what matters over other desktop distributions is installation, administration, and how it look. There is a tour [mandriva.com] to show the big headlines, differences with previous versions, and screenshots of the main components, but you can just download it, put it in a pendrive and test it to see if you like it.

Re:It's Linux (1)

TigerTime (626140) | about 2 years ago | (#37238666)

I'm not sure what's going on. But that tour of screens looks completely different from this one: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mandriva-2011-Beta-3-Looks-Awesome-Screenshot-Tour-203668.shtml [softpedia.com]

Re:It's Linux (2)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 2 years ago | (#37238698)

no it doesn't, it shows 2 themes on the parent link, the dark them is what you see in your link

Deprecated GNOME? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238530)

The real joke is the fact that the iso is a live dvd, with an install to hard disk option. So it is more like ubuntu this way. Only downside is you can't download the iso and rip the RPMs from it for a network upgrade. Their website [mandriva.com] says this also :

GNOME, Xfce and other Desktop Environments (DE) and Window Managers (WM) are no longer included in the official Mandriva packages. Contribution packages from the Mandriva community are available for these desktop environments however. Starting from Mandriva Desktop 2011 only KDE4 is officially supported.

Seems kinda dumb to me, the packages are still in Mandriva's repo, but they are in contrib. There's also something about a package manager being worked on too:

Mandriva Package Manager (MPM) is a new package manager for Mandriva. Currently it is under heavy development and is not included in the distribution by default, but you can install it from repository. Please, help us to test MPM. After some period of testing we will include it into Mandriva by default (approximately into Mandriva 2011 LTS).

Other noteable updates are RPM 5, systemd replacing sysvinit, and a newer kernel. (2.6.38.7)

Re:Deprecated GNOME? (1)

shibashaba (683026) | about 2 years ago | (#37238778)

I'm doing that right now.

The same mirrors that have the ISOs have the regular rpm repositories, you just add them to urpmi and tell it to update(not always for the faint heart tho...)

Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238532)

Mandriva 2011 is out just in time for 2012! Seriously though, for those who were kde 3.5 fans, mandriva goes the distance to make kde4 feel like windows 7 sans-aero. :)

I was one of the many Mandrake (it wasnt called mandriva back then) users and it drove me away from Linux for 4 more years. Kudos to an article with no real convincing reason to even put the OS in vm.

Mandriva isn't trusted by the community (2, Informative)

Yaa 101 (664725) | about 2 years ago | (#37238554)

Mandriva isn't trusted by the community, that is why they forked it and named it Mageia, mainly to keep it from going under and to head for a new direction.

Re:Mandriva isn't trusted by the community (1)

davmoo (63521) | about 2 years ago | (#37238722)

Horse shit. I use Mandriva on a number of critical systems, and I know many others who do the same. Mandriva is the one and only distribution I have ever used over the years that I have installed on dozens of systems without even one failure. Everyone's beloved Ubuntu won't even complete installation on a majority of the hardware I've tried it on, and I've had just as much trouble with Debian and Suse. Mageia has had one release. They're going to have to do way better than that for me to trust it for critical systems.

I've already downloaded the new Mandriva, will put it on my test system later tonight, and will most likely upgrade a dozen or more servers over the week.

Re:Mandriva isn't trusted by the community (1)

mysidia (191772) | about 2 years ago | (#37238802)

You had problems with Ubuntu... Debian...SuSE... did you ever try RHEL or CentOS ?

Re:Mandriva isn't trusted by the community (1)

TuringCheck (1989202) | about 2 years ago | (#37238886)

Are you joking?
RHEL and CentOS have so utterly out-of-date packages that many pieces of recent software can't even be compiled without updating the kernel or glibc. I have converted many of my customers to Mandriva after they banged their heads against their precioussss CentOS or Debian.
On the other hand I use Mandrake / Mandriva since 2004 for everything except embedded systems smaller than my hand.

Re:Mandriva isn't trusted by the community (1)

mynis01 (2448882) | about 2 years ago | (#37239024)

I generally can get just about any hardware/software combination running on debian stable with just a few packages from testing/unstable/backports. Everyone has different tastes though, I'll definitely be taking this new Mandriva for a spin.

Re:Mandriva isn't trusted by the community (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 2 years ago | (#37238958)

+1 here. I won't look what MSI motherboard I have but it's a VIA K8T800 chipset. An Athlon64 3000+ and now only 1 GB of 333 MHz DDR or whatever. One Nvidia 6800 LE card.

As an OS nerd I've tried lots of OSes but in the end I used to prefer FreeBSD. But then I ran a OS X hack and bought a real mac. The later one failed really early though and I still feel like OS X offer nothing over FreeBSD as far as OS goes. Only advantage is if you need professional music, video or graphics software or want to play the few games they support but will still run much worse than in Windows and with more limited graphic card options and in the case of a bought mac very expensive graphics card with exactly the same specs as normal PC cards. Not an issue with a hack though. Plus imho the mac pro had a very retarded spec setup atleast then but I would never ever buy one anyway.

Anyway, back when Ubuntu used the regular Debian installer it worked just fine. But then the first graphical one (live cd?) came out it couldn't boot my machine.

Someone talked about Unity so I got a recent dist and still can't boot my machine.

I've ran OpenBSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD, Solaris, somewhat early Linux dists, Gentoo, the OS X hack (though never tried the new methods since Leopard so not much required from my side ..) and I can handle some tinkering to get things working and add the functionality I want. However I'm not really that interested in shitty software longer and issues which aren't my fault. Also it's much easier to get sound by say installing Open Sound System or get 3D support by installing the closed Nvidia drivers than it is to try to find out why the freaking CD/DVD which try to do all that for me fails, I have no fucking clue, I don't know how to find out and I'm not really that interested. Same with Archlinux 0.7 which was said to be so good. But then random update broke all USB devices and the alsamixer. I don't need or want to fix others shit. Let me break things myself if anything.

Debian would install on this machine ...

Re:Mandriva isn't trusted by the community (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239154)

AFAIK ubuntus server isos still come with an option to use a text based installer. That one usually worked fine when the graphical installer failed.

Re:Mandriva isn't trusted by the community (5, Informative)

buchanmilne (258619) | about 2 years ago | (#37239368)

Horse shit. I use Mandriva on a number of critical systems, and I know many others who do the same.

[...]

I've already downloaded the new Mandriva, will put it on my test system later tonight, and will most likely upgrade a dozen or more servers over the week.

Long-time Mandrake, Mandriva and now Mageia contributor here ... I would warn you that in the past, a lot of server-related packages were maintained by the community (apache and php being about the only ones maintained by one over-worked employee). For a number of reasons, a lot of those contributors have become disenfranchised with Mandriva, and have been porting their work over to Mageia. Thus far, my packages are still in sync between the two, but recent events have been motivating me to rather consolidate my work on Mageia:

  • New Mandriva employees making significant (bad) changes to packages which are officially maintained by a community contributor, without consultation.
  • Lack of communication with contributor community, with sudden changes to the release plan [mandriva.com] (one month prior to the planned release, and after the original RC date - which is usually when version freeze kicks in - the release was moved out by 2.5 months). This makes it quite difficult for contributors to plan their contributions (e.g. I put some effort into getting my packages up-to-date for the May freeze date - during times when I had lots of other responsibilities - only to have my effort effectively wasted).
  • Lack of commitment to support of development infrastructure - there appears to be little internal support for the development infrastructure, contributors have been doing a lot of the work of maintaining the build cluster, and when they aren't available, it is often off-line for days at a time. In addition, there has been conflict with some of these contributors, so they are now resentful of being the only support for the build cluster.
  • Animosity by the RPM5 protagonists
  • Lack of effort in supporting the traditional (non-Live-rsync-all-files-to-disk) installer, which is critical in any server-focused environment. Apparently it still works, but if there are bugs they probably won't be addressed.

These issues seem to not be affecting Mageia much, so now that 2011 is out, and I will be forced to decide between Mandriva and Mageia for my own uses, I will probably be upgrading all my Mandriva 2010.1 machines to Magiea, and will probably move all my effort to Mageia and orphan my Mandriva packages (like many other contributors have done). The current focus of Mandriva is not sufficient for my own uses, so I believe my contributions will be of more value to myself in Mageia than Mandriva.

Note to all users considering Mandriva 2011, note that while an upgrade to Mandriva 2011 should be relatively painless, a later crossgrade to Mageia will not be (due to the RPM5 switch in Mandriva 2011), while a cross-grade from Mandriva 2010.1 to Mageia should also be as painless as upgrading to Mandriva 2011. So, while I won't tell you to ditch Mandriva, you should pause at this stage to decide if you are currently on Mandriva 2010.x.

Wait, did I miss something? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238580)

Is it The Year of the Linux Desktop and nobody told me?!?

Re:Wait, did I miss something? (1)

youn (1516637) | about 2 years ago | (#37238612)

Next year, year of linux on the desktop... I promise, this time really, for real :)

No "complete install" ISO's yet. (1)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | about 2 years ago | (#37238588)

The DVD's being produced that I have seen are lke the live install aspect of Ubuntu. The poblem with that is that Mandriva 2010.2 had a dedicated installer that could both preform complete installations of full setups, as well as on the fly upgrades, rebuilding and if you had Mandriva installed already, it would rebuild and upgrade everything. These ISO images are compressed with squashfs, so you can't extract the RPMs from them and push a live upgrade. I hope that in the future a non-live full install DVD is produced not this 1.6 GB "live install" crap from Ubuntu's way of doing things.

I am used to paralell LDAP+Kerberos+SSH installations of all my machines. This sqashfs method is unacceptable. Especially considering Mageia CAN do that.

If Mandriva is out... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238592)

...then what is IN?!?!? Windows 2011?

Re:If Mandriva is out... (1)

hedwards (940851) | about 2 years ago | (#37238740)

I'd say iOS, but clearly they're out too...

/checks the calender (1)

Reed Solomon (897367) | about 2 years ago | (#37238626)

It is 2011!

That's a good start, and a good sign.

Mandrake drove me to Debian. (1)

devphaeton (695736) | about 2 years ago | (#37238628)

Around the turn of the century, I ordered cd sets of all the major distros from Cheapbytes. (This was dialup days, so I couldn't just download them).

I loved Slackware (7), but the package management (or at least dependency management) got to be a bit tedious. I remember one time getting into over 16 levels of dependencies several times just trying to build The GIMP. So I tried Mudrake and it was great, except it 1) the graphics were really corny and 2) it was slow as balls compared to Slackware.

Then I tried Debian, and that seemed to be "just right". Light on resources, and installing packages was a breeze. Debian Unstable was my main squeeze for a number of years, until I discovered FreeBSD. But that's another stowey.

I recently checked out the Mandrivel Free edition. It works and all, but there's really nothing that sets it apart. It feels like another Kubuntu.

Re:Mandrake drove me to Debian. (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 2 years ago | (#37238682)

I have similar experiences, but I am downloading it and giving it a spin on the ol VM just to look. I do not want to waste my time rebooting if something strikes me on first impressions

Re:Mandrake drove me to Debian. (1)

hazem (472289) | about 2 years ago | (#37239816)

I'm just curious... which VM are you using? I started using VirtualBox this year to run the Windows applications I need and it's worked fairly well, but with a few annoyances (e.g. unable to burn CD/DVD, can't access creative Zen mp3 player).

Re:Mandrake drove me to Debian. (1)

hedwards (940851) | about 2 years ago | (#37238750)

I tried Redhat years ago and that dependency hell was something I remember well. I'd download a package and try to install it, which would always fail and demand a few RPMs sacrifice, which I'd download and it would go on like that until I gave up and chucked the install in the bin and went back to FreeBSD.

These days there are plenty of Linux Distros that realize that if they can tell you what the dependencies are, then perhaps they should offer to download them for you.

Re:Mandrake drove me to Debian. (2)

unixisc (2429386) | about 2 years ago | (#37238806)

That's one thing I would run into - installing any Linux would either give me the network card or the wi-fi not recognized, or it would give me a package manager that would throw in dependency hell. Which is why I've not found a satisfactory distro to date. Ubuntu was nice, but just wouldn't let me install on a clean drive - I had to have Windoze on it first.

Re:Mandrake drove me to Debian. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239794)

When has Ubuntu required a Windows installation first?

Re:Mandrake drove me to Debian. (2)

mysidia (191772) | about 2 years ago | (#37238822)

These days there are plenty of Linux Distros that realize that if they can tell you what the dependencies are, then perhaps they should offer to download them for you.

And these days, Redhat is one of those distros. yum is an integral part of the RPM package system on modern Redhat-based distros.

And in general... software publishers that provide proper support for the OS will either provide their own yum repository with their special dependencies, or depend only on software that can be installed from a standard yum repository (generally preferred).

Although on Fedora, indeed, you might occasionally run into RPM dependency upgrade hell, due to having inconsistent versions, if you install certain beta-quality packages.

On Rehat Enterprise Linux / CentOS installs, I never ran into dependency hell with Yum, except when something really odd I did caused it (e.g. when I installed a package from a 3rd party yum repository, force installed a package against warnings, then disabled that repository).

Re:Mandrake drove me to Debian. (1)

mysidia (191772) | about 2 years ago | (#37238812)

I recently checked out the Mandrivel Free edition. It works and all, but there's really nothing that sets it apart. It feels like another Kubuntu.

Or maybe... you should say 'Nothing really sets Kubuntu apart', it's just another Mandrivel ?

Mandrivel is certainly an earlier goer to that particular party; it's not as if Mandrivel was trying to create a clone of Kubuntu, since, uh, they were there first....

Poor Experience in the Past (1)

oakwine (1709682) | about 2 years ago | (#37238764)

No, just no. My experience with this distro in the past was not good.

no dice (1)

bunhed (208100) | about 2 years ago | (#37238776)

i can't buy a distro based on a desktop. sorry. (i'm lookin; at you too ubuntu, you derps!)

Dropped (1)

taxtropel (637994) | about 2 years ago | (#37238788)

I dropped mandrake linux when they fired the founder back in 06(?) After that I switched to LFS (and BLFS). Currently my new laptop hosts Ubuntu until I can get a new LFS built.

Kitchen (-1, Offtopic)

cabinetknobs (2448806) | about 2 years ago | (#37238830)

Kitchen http://www.primacabinetknobs.com/ [primacabinetknobs.com] cabinet knobs and pulls may seem like just mundane hardware, whose sole purpose is to provide a means for opening and closing the cupboards. But they don't have to be just that. With hundreds of styles available you can dress up your kitchen cabinets any way you choose.

I used madrivel years agor it sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37238840)

They want you to pay for support and make you go thru hoops to get information. Why bother switch to another distribution. I think it's made by frogs.

I tried it (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 2 years ago | (#37238928)

seems OK for a desktop and I will agree KDE has cleaned up quite a bit though its still a little awkward at times. The Mandriva default theme is all over the place, the defaults for the windows are light and bright, the panels are dark. The application launcher is fucking huge, as in entire screen huge, with icons the size of a coin. That is not welcome!

I will install it for real, just when I have some time to fart with the umpteen-thousand theme options, which is a tad disappointing for a "easy to use release". Default it not broken, its just ugly and jarring. The rest depends on their package manager and time.

Dick Tease!!! (1)

Super Dave Osbourne (688888) | about 2 years ago | (#37238930)

Fucking 10 minutes and 7 seconds until release. You are IT edging and you know it!

Re:Dick Tease!!! (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#37239030)

"Fucking 10 minutes and 7 seconds until release. You are IT edging and you know it!
"

What!? The new version of Firefox is coming out next

Call me when things slow down ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239152)

I love Linux distributions. I love using the shell when that works best. I love using GUI applications when that works best. Package managers make my life at least a hundred times easier because all of the software is in one place and all of the critical bug fixes are in one place. Hardware support is pretty decent too, especially if you're a person like me who needs the basic functionality and shies away from bloated and branded blobs of sales pitches.

But until I can settle down on one version or one distribution for a couple of years, with the ability to upgrade application 'X' because it has a feature I need and without the need to upgrade the distribution to version 'Y' which inevitably carries a lot of baggage that I don't want to deal with, I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck in the Windows ghetto. Because no matter how many perils that ghetto has, at least I'm managing to work on my computer rather than work form my computer.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

Mandrake lost it (1)

QuantumV (1307135) | about 2 years ago | (#37239180)

"they came long before and had an easy to use (and powerful) desktop back when it was almost unheard of"

I used Madrake up to version 9.0. Unlike other distributions it worked out of the box without hours of fiddling to get a working setup. When I installed 9.2, that experience was gone and the Windows partition I hardly ever used before, suddenly became my default choice for a while. Then Ubuntu came along. Hope it doesn't reinvent itself away from usefulness.

10.1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239390)

last one i used

The new UI looks like an attempt to emulate Unity (1)

eco2geek (582896) | about 2 years ago | (#37239214)

On cursory inspection, Mandriva's new UI uses a GTK+ style, an icon theme based on Elementary, a full-screen launcher similar to Unity's Dash, and a modified version of Dolphin with no menu bar (and no way to enable it). I haven't kept up with why Rosa Labs [rosalab.ru] (page in Russian) has taken over Mandriva UI development [mandriva.com] , but they have made their mark.

Is the full-screen icon picker, as in gnome-shell, Unity, and now "Simple Welcome" in Mandriva the wave of the future, or just a passing fad? (Personally, I prefer menus.)

This release has to be a joke. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#37239244)

-No "traditional" installation disc; just a graphical live installer, and quite a weak one compared to the traditional installer at that. Fine if you want that, but if you don't...?
-They replaced the regular KDE menu with some disgustingly slooooow, atrocious piece of shit of a menu that takes the WHOLE FUCKING SCREEN. Literally, the whole god damn thing, and it seems you have to re-click its icon or click one of the entries in it to get the damn thing out of the way. After clicking its icon to get it out of the way, expect another wait before the piece of shit goes "poof" and finally lets you do what you want. Really, is there any reason for this? And what the hell is this ROSA group that made this abominable thing?
-GNOME, Xfce and other desktop environments/window managers are no longer included *or* supported. It's either KDE4, or no some unsupported environment.

Mandriva seems to really be running themselves into the ground... ironically, Mageia has none of these problems, because it is what Mandriva *used* to be. It's a better Mandriva than Mandriva itself these days. If anyone wants Mandriva, just use Mageia... or try the latest Mandriva and see for yourself just how bad it is.

Re:This release has to be a joke. (1)

eric_herm (1231134) | about 2 years ago | (#37239548)

The network installer is still working, I think.

Mandrake 7.2 was the one that got me (1)

advocate_one (662832) | about 2 years ago | (#37239464)

into using Linux as it enabled me to try it in a loopback file before committing to messing with my partitions... back then it was a very fearsome step...

* 'lnx4win' [freeos.com] for standard graphic installation using Linux for windows. This will create two files on your Windows partition which will carry the Linux installation and swap. Great if you don't want to get into some messy partitioning.

Back then we didn't have live distros so you couldn't just boot off the CD to try it out, you had to commit to installing it in a fashion first and the linux for windows method was the best way for newbies

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