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German Ban On Doom Finally Lifted

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the that-was-fast dept.

Censorship 176

An anonymous reader writes "18 years after its debut, Doom, the game that almost single-handedly popularized the FPS genre (remember when we just called them Doom clones?) is finally seeing the light of legality in the nation of Germany. The lifting of the ban also applies to the beloved sequel Doom II. A release date has yet to be set. I recommend that Germans who have not found some way to play this game over the last 18 years, please do so upon its release. Despite its age, it's still fun as hell. (Pun very much intended.)"

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Er- why? (2)

Lanteran (1883836) | more than 2 years ago | (#37269876)

I can see wolfenstein (well actually I can't) but doom?

Re:Er- why? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37269894)

Because Germans are Nazi's.

See Wolfenstein.

Re:Er- why? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37269954)

Play a bit harder and you'll find out, or idclev31 and idclev32 if you're impatient.

Re:Er- why? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270190)

Play a bit harder and you'll find out, or idclev31 and idclev32 if you're impatient.

Or for the truly impatient [youtube.com]

Re:Er- why? (4, Funny)

Rob the Bold (788862) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270810)

Play a bit harder and you'll find out, or idclev31 and idclev32 if you're impatient.

Or for the truly impatient [youtube.com]

Truly impatient? If I didn't find a secret level almost 20 years ago, I think you can safely bet I gave up looking.

Re:Er- why? (4, Informative)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270250)

That's Doom 2, not Doom.

Re:Er- why? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37271854)

I'll hazard a guess. E1M4 (Episode 1 being the shareware version), contained a room full of supercomputers that lowered into the floor. Using the minimap (or waiting for them to lower) would reveal that they were shaped in a Swastika pattern. The map was modified in patch 1.4 to remove that pattern (see: Here [wikia.com] )

Re:Er- why? (1)

Lanteran (1883836) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270300)

So.... a wolfenstein crossover? Still not seeing it as it seems to have been a secret level.

Re:Er- why? (1)

h0dg3s (1225512) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271610)

That's Doom 2.

Re:Er- why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37269994)

I believe wolfenstein was banned in Switzerland and Austria for the swastikas. You still can't buy it on the iPhone today.

Switzerland (3, Informative)

DrYak (748999) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270494)

I believe wolfenstein was banned in Switzerland

For your information, Switzerland didn't even take part in World War II and never had a real Nazi party. Thus, there are no Nazi-hunt/anti Swastika laws similar to these in Germany.

The absence of Wolfenstein 3D on iPhone in Switzerland might be due to other reasons, like localization: ~75% of the population speaks German (actually local Swiss-german dialects, but they most can understand standard German too). As Switzerland is a to small market, you seldom see Swiss-specific localizations of software. Very often, the software company will simply market the Germany localization (and piss the 25% remaining of the population) or sometime the France version too (in the rare occurrence when they notice that more than 1 language is spoken in Switzerland).

As no localization of Wolfenstein 3D exists for Germany because of the Swastikas laws, and because Switzerland alone is a to small market to bother doing localization for it, there are no localization which could be sold in Switzerland.

switzerland - nazi bankers (3, Interesting)

decora (1710862) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270600)

the swiss position in world war ii was very complicated and by no means devoid of nazi influence. there have been some great books come out in the past 10 years on this subject (the 'realpolitik' of a few swiss leaders at the time, forging the pseudo-alliance with various nazi officials in order to keep pressure off them)

Re:Switzerland (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37271024)

it's the bastard Italian they speak that messes it all up.

Re:Er- why? (1)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270094)

Wolfenstein actually had a German release. Stripped all the nazi references and everything (I think the enemies are zombies or something now).

Re:Er- why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37271240)

I never ever heard of this. In Germany, everyone just played the original shareware version.

Re:Er- why? (1)

SomePgmr (2021234) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271698)

I think he's talking about Return to Castle Wolfenstein. I'm pretty sure they reskinned that one so they could sell it in places where they couldn't normally.

Re:Er- why? (2)

h0dg3s (1225512) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271624)

Wolfenstein actually had a German release. Stripped all the nazi references and everything (I think the enemies are zombies or something now).

You're thinking of the SNES release.

Re:Er- why? (1)

h0dg3s (1225512) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271646)

Forgot to mention, the enemies are still human but they changed the dogs to giant rats or something.

First (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37269890)

Congrats Germany! And if you guys enjoy Doom, just wait for Quake & Duke Nukem 3D!!!

Re:First (4, Funny)

TWX (665546) | more than 2 years ago | (#37269964)

Congrats Germany! And if you guys enjoy Doom, just wait for Quake & Duke Nukem 3D!!!

I donno... I think they'll be waiting for Duke Nukem forever...

Re:First (4, Informative)

nemasu (1766860) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270100)

*sigh* it's just.....not the same anymore....

No (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37269946)

It was never "banned". It was not allowed to sell it to a person under the age of 18 (which was enough to discourage publishers from even trying). This was now reduced to 16. Apparently id filed a request to reexamine the old rating.

Captcha: massacre. How fitting.

Re:No (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#37272542)

Which is really odd since I've seen a copy of some Doom collection (1&2) with an USK 16 sticker on it a few years ago. Only saw it once though.

Summary is misleading (5, Informative)

JoshuaZ (1134087) | more than 2 years ago | (#37269950)

Doom was on the index of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Department_for_Media_Harmful_to_Young_Persons [wikipedia.org] . When something is on the index is can be bought and sold but cannot be sold to a minor and cannot be sold in a shop that frequently has minors. This sort of law was originally intended to apply to porn but as a matter of implementation is a bit more difficult for videogames since minors are likely to go to videogame stores. Similarly, restrictions on how indexed media can be advertised make it difficult to advertise videogames. So the de facto result is that very few copies of games on the index are sold. But saying that the game was banned is incorrect. Prior to this appeal it was legal to buy and sell copies of Doom.

Re:Summary is misleading (2)

Kazuma-san (775820) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270092)

Another important point of being on the index, is the prevention of advertisements. With Doom and Wolfenstein being shareware games, a ban from shops would not have hit them hard. Neither did a ban for regular advertisements for that matter, because being put on the index can be quite an ad in itself. Taking Doom 1 and 2 from the index was long overdue anyway, for the laws had changed in the meantime which is the reason Doom 3 never even got on the index

Re:Summary is misleading (1)

Trepidity (597) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270410)

One additional thing that inconveniences adults is that indexed works can't be imported (even by adults), but only purchased at German shops. So it makes it illegal to order them from, for example, a British or French online retailer.

I have no idea how well that's enforced, though.

Re:Summary is misleading (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270680)

What is an indexed work? Can't say I've ever seen that before, and as search terms go they lead to fairly useless results.

Re:Summary is misleading (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37272238)

It is explained in the first post of the thread by JoshuaZ.

Re:Summary is misleading (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37272392)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Department_for_Media_Harmful_to_Young_Persons#The_indexing_process this tells you what you want to.
Games can be indexed for the reasons listed there and the listed effects apply.

Deus Ex Human Revolution is not index because the player has the freedom to kill or not. Often you are rewarded with more XP to find a non-lethal solution to progress in the story. If on the other hand the story would be about a more violent character who tortures security guards/whoever (breaking hands to get them to reveal information, then snapping their neck would be considered violent enough I guess) and the player would have no choice but to act this way, it would probably be indexed. Something as simple as a rewarding remark by the player character when you made a clean headshot would also be questionable in eyes of that panel.
More graphical violence would also be questionable, for example being able to sever limbs. being able to shoot one of the enemies in the knee and see them drag their bleeding body behind cover. Star Wars Jedi Knight had the severing limbs disabled in germany to get around being indexed for it.

Re:Summary is misleading (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#37272548)

The standards have been relaxed so much that Relic's Warhammer 40k games which include very over the top execution kills only get a USK 16 rating,

Re:Summary is misleading (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37271684)

Doom was on the index of the Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons

"Harmful?" Maybe inappropriate, but "harmful" is a pretty tough case to make, IMHO.

No wonder... (0)

MoldySpore (1280634) | more than 2 years ago | (#37269952)

...the German economy is the last stable, and largest, economy in Europe: they haven't been introduced to the FPS yet. They'll be eating Cheetos and shitting in bed pans while screaming "M-M-M-M-Monster Kill!!!!!!" before you know it now.

It took Atari even longer to get Pong Reclassified (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37269992)

They had to change the paddle graphics in the German version. It was said the straight lines were too similar to the branches of a swastika, so they had to change them to parentheses.

Not banned... but "indexed" (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37269998)

Doom was not banned, but put on the "index", meaning you needed to be 18+ to buy it (and it was not allowed to be advertised). The information regarding the consequence of indexing is even linked in the article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Department_for_Media_Harmful_to_Young_Persons#Legal_consequences

Watch Out Germans! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270010)

In the USA, DOOM was released in 1993.

SIX YEARS LATER ... Columbine [wikipedia.org]

You saw it here first! Germany on track for a major school shooting in 2017!

Re:Watch Out Germans! (2)

alendit (1454311) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270088)

Don't worry, Germany is already the European leader in school shootings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Watch Out Germans! (2)

GoochOwnsYou (1343661) | more than 2 years ago | (#37272040)

Not just leader, Germany has a higher death toll in school shootings than the rest of Europe combined. 56-46

Oh wow! (5, Funny)

kakyoin01 (2040114) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270042)

I did nazi that coming!

Maybe you would've if only... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37271214)

If only you weren't busy tying your boot-laces into little nazis that hold better for steppin'.

Re:Oh wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37271800)

That's Wolfenstein 3D, but nice try. ;)

Really. (1)

TexNA55 (1338761) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270070)

Coming to a server near you. Anyone for retro?

Best weapon ever in Doom (1)

Capt.DrumkenBum (1173011) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270078)

BFG-9000 was perfect in every way. Powerful enough to kill everything in the general direction you point it, but so little ammo on any level that you almost never got the chance to use it... But when you did. :)

Re:Best weapon ever in Doom (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270130)

theye had a code for infinite ammo for it. where the heck were you that you didn't know it?

Re:Best weapon ever in Doom (2)

SleazyRidr (1563649) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270156)

Some people enjoy the challenge of playing through a game without using cheats.

Re:Best weapon ever in Doom (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270272)

I find that if I allow myself to use cheats during the first play through that invariably I never get back to completing the game without cheats.

The lack of ammo in these games for most weapons is why I didn't really mind DNF having the weapon limit on launch.

Re:Best weapon ever in Doom (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270280)

Nothing like rounding a corner and seeing that big green glowing ball heading right for you! Despite all that the weapon was really balanced quite nicely.

Quake and Tribes 2 are still my overall favorite FPSes. Not least because you could actually run them on Linux. I actually shelled out for the Loki port of Tribes 2, back in the day.

Re:Best weapon ever in Doom (2)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#37272560)

It specifically worked by killing everything in the direction it was pointed in, AFAIK it does line of sight calculations from the player and projectile to determine what to hurt, it's not simply a distance-to-impact thing. On the other hand that means you can avoid it by breaking LOS to the shooter before the ball impacts.

Nazis (1, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270128)

This is a good move, but the fact that it was banned at all still tells me that the Germans have a problem with authoritarianism.

Re:Nazis (2)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270288)

They do in certain areas. As do we in the US in certain areas. It's just that those areas aren't really aligned,nor do they necessarily always make sense rationally.

Many of their magazines would get me sued for sexual harassment if I was caught reading on the job.

Um, well... (2)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271094)

I went to Germany recently and found out that you can drink alcohol pretty much anywhere you like. On the street, on the train, whatever.

I'd trade that freedom for Doom any day.

Re:Um, well... (2)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#37272468)

one of my memories of germany is that you can buy jägermeister at gas stations next to racks of porn. chilled jägermeister in a box that came with shot glasses.

I'm sure doom1 would've been okay if they had replaced red with green. with carmageddon it was fairly ridiculous worldwide, just replace one color and the ped's become zombies! for few markets they altered the sprites a bit too, so they were robots.

Re:Nazis (1)

Rhywden (1940872) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271280)

Sigh. Not banned. It was not allowed to be on public display or advertised for. You were still allowed to possess or purchase it, given that you were at least 18 years of age.

We've come a long way, baby. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270140)

Eighteen years on and it's still more fun it's closest contemporary equivalents (e.g. the CoD series.) WTF has the games industry been up to for the last two decades?

Re:We've come a long way, baby. (2)

cbiltcliffe (186293) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270514)

WTF has the games industry been up to for the last two decades?

Copying shit. Poorly.

How many yearly releases of EA's NHL 20xx do we need before we realize it's all just rehashing the same crap. They're no better than the movie/music industry.

Re:We've come a long way, baby. (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#37272568)

Reducing enemy variety to dudes in differently colored shirts while finding new shades of brown.

Oh and working out how to make the FPS slow enough for console controls.

pun? (1)

Boigaz (789379) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270146)

> "Despite its age, it's still fun as hell. (Pun very much intended.)" - i don't get it. where's the pun?

Re:pun? (1)

gknoy (899301) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270348)

On the slim chance that you're NOT joking, the entire premise of Doom is that you're fighting enemies that get ported in from Hell. In Doom2, I believe your character actually goes there. So, in effect, he was saying that "despite its age, playing Doom is as fun as playing Doom". ;)

Re:pun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37271726)

He's not joking. A pun is a quasi-homonym, so if he had used a word that sounded something like "hell" but wasn't actually "hell," then it would be a pun.

The submitter probably should have said "Despite its age, it's still fun as Hell. (pardon the expression)"

Re:pun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37272108)

That would have sounded like a religious weirdo who considers the word "hell" an unspeakable profanity. D*mn.

Re:pun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37271396)

You travel into hell at the end of the game.

I still call them Doom clones (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270154)

Because they still are Doom clones. I haven't seen anything meaningful introduced in the last decade+ worth of Doom clones that wasn't already done in Doom.

Re:I still call them Doom clones (0)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270282)

Bunny hops

Re:I still call them Doom clones (2)

kat_skan (5219) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270298)

Yeah Thief for example was really little more than MAP13 with all the guns taken out.

Re:I still call them Doom clones (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270728)

I'll kill you. I hope you're joking.

Re:I still call them Doom clones (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270314)

That's a little bit of an exaggeration. I'd personally say Quake rather than Doom as Quake implemented a few necessities like rooms being stacked and enemies that were sector based.

The biggest thing to happen since then is the implementation of levels that aren't just head for the exit switch.

Re:I still call them Doom clones (1)

cbiltcliffe (186293) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270544)

That's a little bit of an exaggeration. I'd personally say Quake rather than Doom as Quake implemented a few necessities like rooms being stacked and enemies that were sector based.

The biggest thing to happen since then is the implementation of levels that aren't just head for the exit switch.

I don't know about the sector based enemies, but System Shock had stacked/multi-level levels way before Quake did.

Re:I still call them Doom clones (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271622)

Heck Rise of the Triad had stacked levels before even that. Ironically its engine was even more primitive than Doom's despite having that feature.

Re:I still call them Doom clones (0)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#37272474)

anyone else noticed that dragon age 2 doesn't have stacked areas?

Re:I still call them Doom clones (1)

Lanteran (1883836) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270328)

Nah, I think they've become worse than doom, stripped out the good bits. For instance, FPS maps now are usually straight lines with cutscenes as opposed to the somewhat maze-like doom levels, plus have you ever noticed how slowly you go in those games? Doom guy must be running at at least 50 miles per hour.

Re:I still call them Doom clones (1)

cbiltcliffe (186293) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270710)

I've said for years that pretty much all FPS games are just Doom with better graphics. For that reason I really don't play them much.

The only ones I actually like are ones with a much larger open world that you can explore however you want, without a "you have to get to this point within this time limit or you lose the objective" like a lot of war simulations are. This type of world doesn't really bother me whether it's broken up into levels or not.
The other thing that can get me to play one is a theme that particularly intrigues me.

If the game has both of these, it's great. So far, the only one I've found that really has both though, is the STALKER series. Although CoD 4, partly set in the same location, seems like it might be promising. Haven't played it yet, though.

Re:I still call them Doom clones (2)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270770)

I've said for years that pretty much all FPS games are just Doom with better graphics

And worse everything else.

Re:I still call them Doom clones (1)

Ken_g6 (775014) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270524)

Because they still are Doom clones. I haven't seen anything meaningful introduced in the last decade+ worth of Doom clones that wasn't already done in Doom.

Vehicles?

Re:I still call them Doom clones (1)

l0ungeb0y (442022) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270648)

Corpse Stomping!

Re:I still call them Doom clones (1)

greg1104 (461138) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270858)

Smacking hookers to get your money back!

Re:I still call them Doom clones (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37271222)

Taking a healthy piss in a random toilet.

Re:I still call them Doom clones (1)

soupart (691584) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271320)

I agree. The only one that I've bought and enjoyed in the last decade was the first F.E.A.R.

It had strange, unexpected cut scenes with a semi interesting plot. That said, I only played though it once and then uninstalled it.

Doom and Quake, we used to have mini lan parties with any computers we could scrape together through the 90's EVERY weekend. Substance abuse and friend abuse was abundant. Then EverQuest came out and the availability of broadband access pretty much killed our weekend frag fests. I miss those early days.

But, I sidetracked. Yes, you are correct, it has been meh since the Doom/Quake/UT days. I really don't play any games anymore. It is almost a "Been there, done this," attitude. Kind of a shame.

Re:I still call them Doom clones (1)

Renegrade (698801) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271678)

Nothing meaningful? How about full 3D?

But then again, Quake gave us that.

I call 'em "Quake clones".

Illegal speech is such a Nazi concept. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270210)

Illegal speech is a Nazi concept that Germany has embraced since before WWII.

Germans were fine with the nazis until they lost. The ban on speaking of them was bad enough that they finally realized that the gag on nazi 'symbolism' lead to German children who had little idea what nazism ended up becoming and gross confusion on why evil old national socialism was bad and green socialism is good.

They did correct some of that but still had the gag in place. I assume they didn't want nazism to look too bad since green socialism skirts closer than most to the ancient national socialist teachings. Just replace "jew" with "meat eater" and/or "jew" with "conservative", etc.

Spell checkers that capitalize nazism or socialism should have the code printed out and rammed up the developers ass. I am unsure if jew or "jew" or jews or "jews" is capitalized or not and it's probably racist to ask.

I despise the green nazis as much as the old nazis; same results but one is full of polyester bunnies, rainbows and cinammon and sugar lies.

Rainbows and fluffy bunnies nor purple pedosaurs and gags on free speech do not make it better. It just makes malinformed children fodder for statists.

Anontra

Re:Illegal speech is such a Nazi concept. (4, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271070)

The ban on speaking of them was bad enough that they finally realized that the gag on nazi 'symbolism' lead to German children who had little idea

Don't forget who wrote the German constitution after the war. The Allies were desperate to turn the German people into monsters and make them feel guilty for being German that even the word "Nazi" became associated with the foulest demons from Hell. Reality is that there were a very few fanatics running the show, and the rest of the sheep did what they were told. It becomes easy to do unusual things when everyone else is doing them. Then eventually when war started what choice did the conscript have when he was given a gun and put on a battlefield? Not every German soldier delighted in killing, nor is the joy of seeing a person die unique to the German people. I've seen more than one video of US troops hooting like drunk teenagers while watching humans being turned to hamburger by a variety of ordnance in Iraq and Afghanistan. What makes them different from supposed "war criminals"? While killing is an accepted part of war, you're not supposed to LIKE it.

Re:Illegal speech is such a Nazi concept. (1)

KingAlanI (1270538) | more than 2 years ago | (#37272136)

I suppose there may have been some victors' justice/vengeance on top of the genuine horrors of the Third Reich. However, it worked out better than the Allied response to WWI. (It seems clear that harsh treatment of Germany after WWI helped fuel WWII, as the Nazis capitalized on German resentment.)

There seemed to be more of a focus on Nazi Party functionaries than the average soldier

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS_foreign_volunteers_and_conscripts [wikipedia.org]
"in the Nuremberg Trials, the Waffen-SS was condemned as a criminal organisation owing to its essential connection to the Party and its involvement in war crimes and the Holocaust. _The exception made was for Waffen-SS conscripts sworn in after 1943, who were exempted owing to their involuntary servitude._" [emphasis added.]

The Wehrmacht (Nazi Germany's regular armed forces) was a somewhat different issue; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht [wikipedia.org] seems to go over the unclear historiography

Re:Illegal speech is such a Nazi concept. (3)

snowgirl (978879) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271440)

This entire rant falls so far away from reality that it doesn't surprise me that you're posting this as an anonymous coward. Willing to speak your bullshit, but unwilling to have such speech associated with your own name, because you understand how offensive it is. Perhaps though, you're just ignorant to how offensive it is to truth.

The youth of Germany well understand how Nazism was bad, and in recent elections, when a Nazi-apologist sought election signs and protests against Nazism, and satirical comedy depicting the well known Nazi symbols with humor.

This "statist government" out to destroy human rights as you claim, oddly has as Article I of their constitution their Bill of Rights. They restrict speech that could lead to Nazi-like fanaticism and another horrible repression of human rights, and destruction of human dignity. This idea that they're openly hostile to conservatives is also crazy, since the CDU/CSU (Christian Democratic Union/Christian Social Union) is the major party and currently controls the Chancellory. Yes, their conservative party is currently in charge, and running things.

"But the CDU/CSU isn't conservative enough, the more conservative individuals are being repressed!" Well, yes, the reactionaries in Germany do experience suppression of their speech... because shock the Nazis were/are reactionaries! And before you start complaining that they're treating reactionaries wrongly, they also suppress radical positions as well. Any extremist is likely to meet with opposition in Germany, because they of all people have seen the horrors that an extremist government can wrought upon the world.

Now available (1)

dexotaku (1136235) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270224)

idspipopd?

Re:Now available (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270294)

You misspelled that.

Re:Now available (1)

dexotaku (1136235) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270326)

How embarassing! idspispopd?

Re:Now available (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270996)

i thought it was idspispopd?

The Interesting Thing To Me (1)

tgeek (941867) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270234)

Is the length of the waiting period to be allowed to ask for an appeal or reconsideration of the indexing. 10 years seems to be a little excessive. IMHO, a period of 2-5 years seems more appropriate.

Should the games have been indexed in the first place? Maybe. Maybe not. I think that question is best left to parents in Germany who were raising their children circa 1993-1994 and later.

Banned? (2)

Froeschle (943753) | more than 2 years ago | (#37270248)

As a Yank having spent the last 10 years (and possible y the rest) of my life in Germany I really don't care. I have never thought that that game was banned here but never really cared to try it. I order *alll* boxed video games I play out of the UK and pay with my American credit card to download them from US Server when possible.

Who needs German censorship? (meh)

Re:Banned? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270560)

Are you sure you're not from France, Froggy?

Re:Banned? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270868)

So you are really obtaining them illegally. Being on the index still allows you to buy them if you are above 18 years old and you can find a store in Germany that sells them (they aren't allowed to advertise or publicly display it). Importing them is illegal.

Of course you realize what this means... (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270470)

Germany is Doomed! DOOMED, I tell you!

Yeah, Main Commander Keen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37270876)

It was all because of that Commander Keen!

Re:Yeah, Main Commander Keen (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271300)

I would kill for a Super Mario 64-like modern update of Commander Keen. Indie platformers are all the rage right now. Someone please make this happen, and make it happen well!

Re:Yeah, Main Commander Keen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37272220)

I'm imagining The Commander Keen 3D where there is a room decorated with hanging marines which you must jump all over to advance.. Not exactly the most politically correct thing these days. ;)

Doom wasn't the first (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271290)

Many city Doom as the first FPS, when Wolfenstein 3D clearly predated it. And Ultima Underworld was released before either of them, with a more advanced engine than ran on even weaker hardware (including its RPG elements).

Doom was more popular and for many people, it was the first they played, so it is seen as the first overall. Just the same as many people have said Goldeneye 64 or Halo was the first time they ever played a FPS game in multiplayer, so thusly that inherently makes it the greatest game of all time, even if others did it better before hand (like Half Life or Quake).

Re:Doom wasn't the first (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271474)

The first conventional 3D first person shooter (in modern sense) was Catacomb 3D [wikipedia.org] - also courtesy of id and Mr Carmack personally - which predated Ultima Underworld by several months.

Re:Doom wasn't the first (1)

Scarred Intellect (1648867) | more than 2 years ago | (#37271662)

Mod parent up. I've been saying this for years. People who started with Doom probably called those of use who started with Gondeneye 64 fanbois (or the equivalent term for the time) and hated Goldeneye 64 for its lack of novelty and unjust popularity just like us who started with Goldeneye 64 called those who started with Halo fainbois and hated Halo for its lack of novelty and unjust popularity.

Re:Doom wasn't the first (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37272330)

Uttima underworld? Castle Wolfenstein? that new shit? The First FPS muti-player that i played was called "midi-maze" It ran on the Atari ST (1987ish). We had house parties where we wired the st's together with midi cables as networking home computers wasn't very common at that point. The game was played in a first person view of a simple maze where the players were represented as happy faces. When you killed another player they would see your taunt message.

Midi-maze was was itself clone of maze war on the xerox star. (1985)

huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37271620)

Beloved? Doom was amazing at the time, but Doom II was kind of disappointing.

I'm confused.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37271826)

People still buy games in stores?

CounterStrike (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37272380)

The game CounterStrike is also censored in Germany. You can play the game as normal, but when you shoot your opponent, they lay down and peacefully surrender with their hands over their head. There is no actual depiction of death.

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