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Canada Encouraged US To Place It On Piracy List

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the international-cooperation dept.

Canada 199

An anonymous reader writes "Copyright, U.S. lobbying, and the stunning backroom Canadian response gets front page news treatment today in Canada as the Toronto Star covers new revelations on copyright by Michael Geist (who offers a longer post with links to the cables) from the U.S. cables released by WikiLeaks. The cables reveal that former Industry Minister Maxime Bernier raised the possibility of leaking the copyright bill to U.S. officials before it was to be tabled in the House of Commons, former Industry Minister Tony Clement's director of policy Zoe Addington encouraged the U.S. to pressure Canada by elevating it on a piracy watch list, Privy Council Office official Ailish Johnson disclosed the content of ministerial mandate letters, and former RCMP national coordinator for intellectual property crime Andris Zarins advised the U.S. that the government was working on a separate intellectual property enforcement bill."

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Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (5, Insightful)

assemblerex (1275164) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296114)

Can't have people getting used to the truth now, can we ?

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296188)

Can't have people getting used to the truth now, can we ?

they already know that governments are full of lying sacks of shit. in fact all governments are liars and murderers. yes even yours. quit pretending yours is special because you were born in that country. patriotic rhymes with idiotic for a reason.

this is what happens when you celebrate hierarchial society and tell people you're either a "leader" or you're a nobody. makes positions of authority irresistable to sociopaths who will say or do anything to get them.

problem is what to do about it. who would you vote for to fix this?

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296478)

Revealing the lying sacks of shit in the act gives lying a disadvantage it previously didn't have, leading, just maybe, to less lying.

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (1)

ge7 (2194648) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296486)

It's not just governments - it's people in general. Same goes for relationships, business and since government is made of people, that too. There's nothing you can do about it. Well, except put computer algorithms to handle it, but even then the algorithm designers would try to cheat and get some advantage towards them. People in general are full of shit.

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (3, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296732)

It's not just governments - it's people in general. Same goes for relationships, business and since government is made of people, that too. There's nothing you can do about it. Well, except put computer algorithms to handle it, but even then the algorithm designers would try to cheat and get some advantage towards them. People in general are full of shit.

The kind of "full of shit" that most people experience is denial. Usually of their personal weaknesses, insecurities, shortcomings, etc. They protect and excuse these things because they are identified with them. Identification with them means that letting them go would feel like a sort of death. Mostly they mean well, they just don't objectively see themselves or understand that their motivations for doing most things are a lot less wholesome than what they imagine them to be. Believe it or not, most people who are manipulative don't realize it. They only know that people respond to them when they behave that way and it seems to get them what they want so it must be "correct".

A lot of people would, in fact, be horrified to actually realize the daze they are in that prevents them from seeing how selfish they really are. A side-effect is that almost nothing is done for its own sake because it is good to do. There is always a secondary motive. The saying is "most people have two reasons for what they do: the good reason, and the real reason." Usually the closest the average person comes to understanding this is to realize that they have a lot of inner conflict and have grave difficulty being at peace with themselves, truly relaxing, or being content without some kind of entertainment or distraction.

That's bad enough, and goes a long way towards explaining why they are so willing to tolerate liars and portray it as normal ("eh he's a congressman what do you expect, of course he lies"). Yet it's different from actively, knowingly and deliberately trying to deceive. There's a plan and a purpose combined with an awareness of what one is doing. It's perpetrated by people who are sworn to do what is best for the nation and entrusted with a lot of power with which to do it. There's an element of betrayal here that isn't present in the "little white lies" most people tell.

It's part of why, perhaps surprisingly, telling a really big lie to masses of people tends to work out more successfully than telling a small one. Hitler was quite explicit about this in Mein Kampf:

The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of the nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell a big one.

Even there you can see a hint of ego perspective or selfishness. The people assume their leaders must be just like them. Therefore if they would be ashamed to tell a big lie, there leaders must be also. The inability to perceive that other people don't function anything like the way you do and would do things you would not do is part of what makes people vulnerable to this kind of deception.

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296818)

But governments have a monopoly on the legal use of force.

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296838)

patriotic rhymes with idiotic for a reason.

Because they both end with -iotic.

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297088)

patriotic rhymes with idiotic for a reason.

Because they both end with -iotic.

And so does abiotic, amniotic, biotic, macrobiotic, meiotic, miotic, periotic and semiotic.

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297016)

The only problem with that line or reasoning is that it isn't broad enough. Large corporations are also full of liars, sometimes even actual murders though more often they kill through through faulty products, cover ups, and getting others to do their dirty deeds. It's one of the major flaws of every economic system, yes--even and especially capitalism, which has become more religion than economic system. They have this in communist countries too--they just don't call large corporations the same thing. Any extreme concentration of wealth and power is going to cause this--espeically when you have a situation like exists in most of the world now where large corporations and government are pretty much indistinguishable from each other. Government is supposed to balance out the power of the rich and corporate, and instead it magnifies it these days. Bottom line: believe nothing anybody tells you without looking for yourself, and be especially suspicious of motivations of people who demonize others.

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (5, Insightful)

osu-neko (2604) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297556)

they already know that governments are full of lying sacks of shit.

Yes, true, but in many circumstances, it's important to know the specifics.

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (2)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296252)

Obviously, they are a terrorist group. [youtube.com]

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296338)

Truth is whatever the Ministry of Truth says it is.

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (1)

E IS mC(Square) (721736) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296384)

But but don't you know? PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE!!!

(ignore... Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. - I know).

Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296824)

...AND CHILDREN WILL BE RAPED!

(hey I got this too... Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. - I know)

Could someone summarize the summary? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296126)

What a mess of adjectives.

I think it says: one Canuck politician tried to get his way in a Copyright legislation deal by using America as muscle.

Re:Could someone summarize the summary? (1)

haruchai (17472) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297220)

That Canuck politician is their equivalent of the POTUS. Obama only dreams of having the kind of control over the Democrats that Stephen Harper has over their Conservative Party.

Privy Council Office? (0)

gstewart (453924) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296134)

Canada has a government body overseeing national toilets?

Politics are bad mmmm'ka? (4, Insightful)

Yo Grark (465041) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296140)

I know politics can get evil at time but seriously, WTF?

That's as close to treason as I can see to the tech industry.

Media Levies? Fine, thank you for protecting us from RIAA type tatics.

But then to turn around and sell out the entire COUNTRY to further your agenda? That's plain evil and I wish someone had the gonads to actually put people in jail over this.

Yo Grark

Here's the good thing (0)

BlackTriangle (581416) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296176)

These cable leaks will effectively neuter the Conservatives for the next four years, since their entire policy is based on sucking American cock. Do the Conservatives have an 'idea' they want to put forward? There's a cable for pushing back against that!

Re:Here's the good thing (4, Insightful)

PsychoSlashDot (207849) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296222)

These cable leaks will effectively neuter the Conservatives for the next four years, since their entire policy is based on sucking American cock.

Are you kidding me? There are three types of us; those who know what's going on and act on that knowledge (a.k.a. politicians), those who know what's going on and don't act on that knowledge (you and I), and the vast, vast majority that don't read about any of this and wouldn't understand or care if they did.

All the politicians need to do is keep smearing each other with "they tax you too much" and "they are killing our health care/education/whatever" and "he's a pedophile". Nobody brings real issues into campaigning because the majority of constituents don't understand real issues not because they're stupid but because they don't want to.

Re:Here's the good thing (1)

J Story (30227) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296448)

With any luck, some weightier opposition MPs will make sure that the Conservatives get to wear this when appropriate. I remember when the bill was last before parliament and one of the opposition parties tried to broaden the media levy. The government response was that it "wouldn't work", but now it looks like the real writer of the bill was Obama (countersigned by Disney), so there was no real hope for change.

Re:Here's the good thing (1)

PsychoSlashDot (207849) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297492)

With any luck, some weightier opposition MPs will make sure that the Conservatives get to wear this when appropriate. I remember when the bill was last before parliament and one of the opposition parties tried to broaden the media levy. The government response was that it "wouldn't work", but now it looks like the real writer of the bill was Obama (countersigned by Disney), so there was no real hope for change.

Sure. But my point is that when the opposition says "the Conservative government did this" and describes the issue, the majority of the voting populace will hear "the PCs did something you don't understand or care about." Meanwhile the PCs will be saying "the opposition wants everything in your wallet, and the wallet itself. They're evil and greedy and not at all like us."

Re:Politics are bad mmmm'ka? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296192)

Well we, as Canadian citizens, can demand that this politician be sanctioned. All it takes is to make a bit of noise so that the right people feel they can't ignore the issue. Write to the media, to your local representatives, spread this story to your friends, on Facebook, and be sure to tell people "We can get the guilty punished, we simply need to act. Let's do it!".

I'm going to do just what I said above. Will you?

Re:Politics are bad mmmm'ka? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296346)

They won the last election. They got a MAJORITY (even if only by a couple thousand votes). They DO. NOT. CARE.

Look at all the scandals from income trusts to Gazebogate to Kairos and beyond. Look at how they cover up their wrongdoing to hide it from the Auditor General, and nothing happens. Look at how they instruct their political staffers to abuse their offices of government and the political staffers get fired/resigned for the election and sneakily hired back afterwards. Look at the RCMP investigation of one staffer that clearly and illegally interfered with Access To Information requests, admitted doing it, and then the investigation was dropped with no comment post-election. Look at how they first came into power, with the then RCMP commissioner abusing his office to make spurious claims against Liberal MPs mere days before the vote.

Sure, write to the media. I'm sure that Globalist TV and Corporate Television Vehicle will really care about what you have to say! The remaining option, CBC, will be too busy supplicating themselves to get the hard-right radicals to stop calling them communist (which they won't, unless the CBC turns into Conservative Pravda for real). And the newspapers? When the vast, vast majority are owned by the same small groups of people and near universally endorsed the Conservative Party last election even with all the many scandals?

Re:Politics are bad mmmm'ka? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296450)

But then to turn around and sell out the entire COUNTRY to further your agenda? That's plain evil and I wish someone had the gonads to actually put people in jail over this.

This type of shit has been going on with Harper and his band of Conservatives all along. Everybody knows about it, that's why they re-elected them to office with a strong majority.

For those that don't know it, the Conservative government in Canada has always had the worst attributes of the Right Wing religious zealots and the Tea Party in the United States. In fact, the Conservative Mayor of Toronto has promised to bring Tea Party style politics to the province of Ontario.

The Canadian voters know how corrupt the extreme Right Wing is in Canada, and they still elect them to majority governments.

You shouldn't be blaming the politicians, you should be blaming the voters who admire the leadership skills of these politicians. There will NEVER be an Arab Spring in Canada, because we happily vote into government politicians that people from other countries risk their lives trying to get rid of.

Re:Politics are bad mmmm'ka? (3, Insightful)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296698)

You shouldn't be blaming the politicians, you should be blaming the voters who admire the leadership skills of these politicians.

Or just blame both.

Re:Politics are bad mmmm'ka? (1)

korean.ian (1264578) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297286)

The reason the Conservatives won a (not so strong really) majority is primarily due to Liberals not fielding strong candidates and having shitty leadership from Ignatieff. I can't recall exact percentages, but the number of Liberal ridings that turned Conservative is astounding.
it should also be noted that this is Harper's first majority government, and if (when) he breaks the trust of the people who swung their vote to the conservative side, it will be back to a minority-coalition quagmire, unless either the Liberals or the NDP radically change things.
Still this is reprehensible bullshit and I will make as many people aware of it as possible.

Well, I am not shocked... (4, Insightful)

iCEBaLM (34905) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296164)

For those that don't know, we currently have had pretty far right leaning neo-conservative governments (still not as far right as the US tea party, but pretty bad).

They have been caught lying to parliament and making illegal backroom deals in the past, yet because the Liberals can't seem to field a leader who isn't a blithering idiot (Dion) or perceived as weak (Ignatief) our left of centre vote gets split between Liberals, NDP and Green (which combined makes up over 50%) and the right of centre vote goes all towards the Conservatives.

It just goes to show you, that first past the post doesn't work well...

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (2)

mbone (558574) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296184)

And what about the Constitutional Coup that Harper conducted with the Governor General ?

In my mind, that is sufficient reason right there for Canada to become a Republic.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (3, Interesting)

tqk (413719) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296464)

And what about the Constitutional Coup that Harper conducted with the Governor General ?

In my mind, that is sufficient reason right there for Canada to become a Republic.

As if that's a cure-all solution. Cf. the USA.

I think what you really want is a government truly bound by a constitution with which it may not fsck, and barring a very messy and violent revolution, that's a pipe dream.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297012)

A constitution is a short-term solution.. again, just look at the USA: they have an old piece of paper that lays out the law of the land, in which they daily look for loopholes to pass draconian laws and turn their country into a dictatorship. Seriously, one day the old piece of paper will be taken for restoration and the returned document will just write "Some animals are more equal than others".

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

arthurpaliden (939626) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296756)

Don't blame Harper because they other leaders never read the Parliamentary rules of order nor thought their little pressure tactic through.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296426)

Ignatieff may or may not have been able to do things more effectively as leader. But that's not anywhere near the whole story. The Conservatives, thanks to the fundraising efforts they made to collect major political subsidies, are sitting on huge piles of money. They have millions to waste in advertising even before the election. And they do spend millions in advertising before the election. Even Jesus Christ would have had trouble defending himself against all the slander backed by subsidised CPC ads. They got the Goebbels Big Lie out there early, and often, and the Liberals didn't have millions in ads to respond with. The Liberals didn't try pulling the same Nixonian dirty tricks against Harper either.

Ignatieff thought that his performance in the House of Commons (that few watch), his occasional appearance in the conservative media (hah), and his trips to meet and interact with groups of Canadians, would be enough. Sadly, it wasn't. The first two had no chance of countering defamation the ads' targets were inclined to go along with anyways and the last, by its nature, couldn't affect enough people.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296444)

And also, for those who don't know, the Toronto Star is essentially a mouthpiece for the Liberal party, so take the article with a grain of salt.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297716)

Fortunately, the Conservative / RightWing have their own media chattel - the Toronto Sun, who lives could only be made more complete if Peladeau the Younger would sell them to Rupert Murdoch.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

Taty'sEyes (2373326) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296572)

I don't know why you have to slam the TEA Party. Do you know what the TEA Party wants? A smaller government. A government based on the founders' principles of minimalistic, well defined roles. Why did the founders want that? Because they knew people were fallible and would take advantage, regardless of party affiliation, of whatever situation presented itself. You can play your party bashing game all you want, but know that giving any one organization power will result in the same state of affairs.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (2)

vux984 (928602) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296702)

Do you know what the TEA Party wants?

An intolerant white christian state, with no gay marriage?

A smaller government. A government based on the founders' principles of minimalistic, well defined roles.

Sure that too. But that's a plank all platforms pay lip service to. Mostly its the white christian state with no gay marriage that makes them the butt of the jokes though.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296892)

Do you know what the TEA Party wants?

An intolerant white christian state, with no gay marriage?

Not really. Though I don't think the government should be involved in marriages at all. And my church certainly won't give a marriage to a gay couple. And that's the way it will stay.

Having the government involved in marriage violates the separation of church and state. Having the government tell churches who can get married also violates the separation of church and state.

Solution: Do a global search-and-replace for the word "marriage" in all of the laws and replace it with the phrase "civil union". A civil union will be given by an agent of the government. Churches will continue to give "marriages" to whomever they individually believe can get them, as they are constitutionally allowed to under their freedom to express their religion. Some churches will choose to give marriages to gay couples. Other churches will not. A marriage license will clearly state which church sanctioned the marriage. If a gay couple wants a bona-fide "marriage", they are welcome to go to a church which marries gay couples, but my church won't recognize their marriages. It won't matter, because it won't be in any sense related to the legal civil union. Any couple, "married" or not, gay or straight, who wants the legal benefits currently associated with "marriage" will have to get a civil union.

Finally, all existing marriage licenses will be grandfathered in as civil unions, regardless of which church married the couple or whether they are gay or straight marriages.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

TFAFalcon (1839122) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297658)

Why not make the churches change the word they use?
If they want to differentiate the people THEY 'properly' marry they can use any other word they like, but why should people that don't get married in churches (atheists do exist you know) suddenly no longer be considered married?

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296974)

A smaller government. A government based on the founders' principles of minimalistic, well defined roles.

Sure that too. But that's a plank all platforms pay lip service to.

maybe the R's, but no one else pays lip service to reducing the size of government (only lower taxes).

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

belthize (990217) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296710)

Which TeaParty ? TeaPartyPatriots.org, TeaParty.org ? Which one has the official TEA Party platform. They differ quite a bit in their specifics as to how to create limited government and balance the budget. Some of TeaPartyPatriots economic suggestions are fairly sound some aren't. TeaParty.org seems more of a front for the Michael Savages/Rush Limbaughs of the world.

Regardless official statements like this (off of TeaParty.org's 'about' link):

(Yes, We Are A Christian Nation) You don't have to be a Christian to enjoy freedom. The Tea Party welcomes all Red Blooded U.S. Citizens.

Make me fairly disinterested in anything they have to say. Which citizen's are not "Red Blooded" ? Gays ? Muslims ? Jews ? Liberals ? Progressives ? Neocons ? Atheists ?

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

Taty'sEyes (2373326) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297094)

I see your point, but you have missed mine and only make a stronger case for what I said.

"A government based on the founders' principles of minimalistic, well defined roles. ... Because they knew people were fallible and would take advantage, regardless of party affiliation, of whatever situation presented itself."

These websites claiming to be mouth pieces have fallen into corruption and are using their new found power to advance certain political agendas. They speak for "groups" of people. As soon as you hear "group speak", you have found someone seeking dominance.

Until we stop viewing people as belonging to "groups" - ie. class warfare, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes. We are a country of individuals. The individual's right to liberty must be preserved. As soon as you (in the role of government) take from one and give to another because of that person's "group" status, you deny the first person's liberty and have taken the first step toward tyranny.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (3, Informative)

lexsird (1208192) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297536)

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -Steinbeck

"Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say, Napoleonic times." -Vonnegut

"It is a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: “If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?”"-Vonnegut

  Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.-Albert Einstein

Get the drift yet?

Re:Just join the Canadian Tea Party (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297424)

The Canadian Tea Party [canadianteaparty.com] needs your help now!

Click on the website and encourage other slashdotters to join.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297452)

Hmm, that's a good point. We should sooner sell ourselves into slavery than consider the opinions of people whose words can be interpreted, regardless of intent, as even slightly racist, exclusionary, or cliquish.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

belthize (990217) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297570)

Nice false dichotomy, or alternatively, right dichotomy wrong assignments.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

haruchai (17472) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297724)

If you have to ask, the answer is NO

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296752)

The "founders" lived in a land of farmers and small, independent businesses, where getting from town to town took a day, and from state to state took a week.

It's a completely different fucking world.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (2)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297018)

The "founders" lived in a land of farmers and small, independent businesses, where getting from town to town took a day, and from state to state took a week.

Judging by their policies, I think getting back to that is pretty high on the Tea Party's agenda...

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297662)

I find this applies best to gun control. They lived in a time when the rifled barrel was known, but yet to see mass production, and there were no bullets. When they wrote about the right to bear arms, they were not considering that today we have combat shotguns that can take a door of it's hinges in two shots, and can carry twenty cartridges in their semi-automatic barrels - and still be so light that a reasonably trained person can duel-wield.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297628)

That might be what they say they want, but American politics is a game of factions. The tea party movement is so intimatly tied to the religious right that there is, for practical purposes, no distinguishing them. If you take a group of self-identified tea-party supporters, you'd probably find that upwards of 95% of them want a federal ban on gay marriage, the ten commandments in every courthouse, Christian prayer in schools, criminalisation of abortion with the absolute narrowist of exceptions, and all the other positions you know to associate.

The religious right and the tea party both know that only in unity can they stand up to their shared nemesis, the liberals.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296746)

Check your math iCEBaLM; you can't form a majority gov't unless you've got 50% +1.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (3, Informative)

iCEBaLM (34905) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297054)

You can't form a majority government unless you win 50% +1 of the seats in the house. To do that you do NOT need 50%+1 of the vote.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (1)

m0nkyman (7101) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297208)

Only true if there are only two parties. I'll let you do the math on what percentage is needed if there are three relatively equal parties, and it's first past the post. I'll give you a hint. It starts with a 3.

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297322)

For those that don't know, we currently have had pretty far right leaning neo-conservative governments (still not as far right as the US tea party, but pretty bad).

You should add that they are not as far right leaning as the republican party either. In fact, they're pretty darn centrist. Further to the right than the NDP, but no government in Canada ever has or ever will be as far to the left as the NDP, so that's not saying a whole lot.

It just goes to show you, that first past the post doesn't work well...

It does nothing of the sort. The party that wins the most seats in Parliament gets to form the government. In a multi-party system it often happens that the winning party wins with less than 50% of the popular vote. Where's the problem? When five candidates run for mayor of a town and one of them wins with 40% of the vote, do you complain that the system is broken then too?

Re:Well, I am not shocked... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297808)

I wouldn't paint the Canadian conservatives with the same brush as American ones. We haven't quite hit the amount of partisan politics that results in ineffective government that the US has. Nor do the conservatives try to appeal to the masses by appealing to the religious sensibilities.

That said, the NDP is pretty far left, more so than the Democrats in the US, and I'd rather see the conservatives with a minority government than the NDP with one. The conservatives with a majority just means cruft legislation and pork-barreling will be pushed through much like the US.

None of this is any surprise (4, Insightful)

mbone (558574) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296180)

None of this is any surprise to anyone who has been paying attention.

To paraphrase Douglas Adams, they are not above being sleazy in the same way that the ocean is not above the sky.

You know ... (3, Insightful)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296204)

I think this sort of information should be forced to be disclosed legally.

How are people supposed to know who to blame for the mess of legislation if this sort of thing is done under wraps? I'm sure this guy wouldn't see another term in office if this sort of thing was known earlier.

I realise doing it in secret was the whole point of it, but these people should be held accountable, they are meant to represent the people, and the people need to know what they're doing.

Re:You know ... (1)

tqk (413719) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296340)

... they are meant to represent the people ...

It's the 21st Century. Your naivete is showing.

the biggest leakers - governments (4, Insightful)

decora (1710862) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296210)

and they typically 'leak' information for political reasons, for power and influence, for purposes of manipulation and propaganda.

that is why government prosecutions of 'leakers' are the ultimate hypocrisy. government itself is the biggest leaker of all.

Treason, Privilege, Immunity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296258)

But thy only bust you if you're on the streets and seem to disapprove of any G#, or something like that.

Bigger embassy, too? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296300)

This is just like how the Iraqis invited us to build an "embassy" larger than Vatican City. Come to think of it, Canada has a lot of oil, too.

Piracy schmiracy (1, Insightful)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296302)

I don't understand why people allow their governments to continue to crack down on piracy as if its some kind of major problem. Markets will adapt, and to give an example of one look at the gaming industry. Many people now get games through Steam because its convenient. You get it the minute the game comes out, and you get access to a bunch of other features, like automated updates, etc. It is impossible for them to pirate games on these platforms, and many publishers are coming up with similar system. Also, there are multiplayer capabilities in many games that require unique CD-keys, like Starcraft II, etc. Another example is Netflix and Hulu. They offer a streaming service whereby you get to watch what you want when you want to and don't bombard you with more advertisements than actual television. If Hollywood would just release new movies over some premium streaming service, no doubt they would cut down on bootlegging and piracy in general. It boggles my mind why everyone isn't in a complete uproar over this, as all of the measures governments take are inherently anti-consumer and only meant to benefit the corporations failing business models.

Re:Piracy schmiracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296410)

It is impossible for them to pirate games on these platforms

I assure you that this isn't true. But I do think they're taking personal copyright infringement far too seriously (seriously, rushing through laws because someone might have lost potential profit? Really?).

Reporesenting corporate interests. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296456)

I don't understand why people allow their governments to continue to crack down on piracy as if its some kind of major problem.

It is a problem to the corporate interests. No one else has pointed this out but can anyone see that we have corporate interests being politically promoted across borders? In other words, we have the governments of two sovereign doing their damnedest to represent the interests of moneyed corporations at the expense of their citizens.

Am I off base here and turning into some sort of pinko lefty?! Or is this what's happening?

Re:Piracy schmiracy (2)

RobinEggs (1453925) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296460)

and many publishers are coming up with similar system

But that's a bad thing. Steam itself isn't too bad, but it's still prohibits resale without lowering prices and causes a lot of other irritation.

The appropriate reaction to multiple publishers all trying to make their own Steam-type platform is disgust and terror. More proprietary bullshit, more integrated systems to figure out when one (Steam) was enough from the consumer perspective (and that's ignoring those who hate Steam already), and more opportunities for situations like Sony's nightmarish mismanagement of game credentials and account information.

Digital delivery platforms don't presently look like a good future; they're generally ways of inconveniencing and restricting customers, not better catering their needs.

Re:Piracy schmiracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296704)

I think you're missing something important.

Steam is the absolute, best thing Valve could do to lower risk.

When you ship physical items for sale you have to guess how many to make ahead of time and it takes weeks to make more. Valve really has no foolproof way of guessing how many copies their going to sell. Is it 500K or 5M units? If you make too many you lose a bunch of money on upfront costs and you sell the leftovers cheap to clear 'em out. Make too few and you sell out leaving customers with their money to spend on something else so you lose sales. If it takes too long to get more in the stores your customers might have the option of buying used and then you get nothing,

Steam allows them to sell exactly the number that the customers demand with no upfront guessing, It even cuts out the middleman, Profits are maximized. I think they saw this and decided to be the prime mover of this delivery system so they wouldn't end up paying someone else for the service.

Re:Piracy schmiracy (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297490)

Steam does lower prices significantly, frequently, and early-on, though. Further, the trade is not one-sided; you get some utility in exchange for the freedom you lose - the ability to re-download your entire game library for as long as steam continues to exist. And this includes downloading versions for OSs other than the one you originally bought it for, if those versions exist.

Re:Piracy schmiracy (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297864)

Resale is not usually something most people do unless they are console gamers, and consoles have their own built in DRM. While I agree with the principal of being able to resale, the software industry as well as the government has basically frowned upon this practice for over a decade unless you are operating a console system. The appropriate reaction for one person is not the same as what you deem appropriate, because opinions differ.

Sony is a giant piece of shit, and this has been proven when people boycotted them for their DRM dvd's they produced, and when people traded in their PS3's for Xbox 360's after the PSN got hacked. Sony really doesn't have much going on for it anymore. I don't remember the last time I purchased a Sony product, since I refuse to. They publish too many sub-par games and require increasing control over them, even above and beyond industry standards. People are moving away from Sony products at a very rapid rate. The publishers producing the best games are not affiliated with one platform, and typically release it on Xbox, PS3, and many times PC.

I have no complaints about Steam, because they offer products for bargain rates, offer them deliverable the minute they are available, and/or as your connection will allow, and let you access them from any computer you are using as long as you are doing it from one computer at a time. This business model is INFINITELY better than the music and movie industry. Using them as an example was to show its possible to create a very profitable business that handles copyrights in a more consumer-friendly way.

Um, because? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297228)

I don't understand why people allow their governments to continue to crack down on piracy as if its some kind of major problem.

Because it takes well-informed, focused, unanimous, organized action in order to even get the government to admit that there may be opposition to their actions?

But sure, after people get home from the acid mines with their morales shot, they should spend their free time focusing on all the really morale-sucking problems without reward. When they have done enough of this to be depressed, they should try and preach to the choir that is their friends, and influence the brick walls we call our politicians, who turn around and tell ghost stories about the pirates and the terrorists who take drugs.

Obviously (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296310)

Piracy is legally sanctioned in Canada by the surcharge added to the price of digital media to compensate for its use in making unauthorized copies of copyrighted materials. If you're NOT pirating media in Canada, you're not getting all of what you've paid for.

Before tabled in Parliament?? Please, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296314)

"They also cite cabinet minister Maxime Bernier raising the possibility of showing U.S. officials a draft bill before tabling it in Parliament."

We as interested Canadian citizens are told by the responsible ministers over and over again through multiple revisions of this bill over a period of years that we have to wait until it is tabled to see what is in it, and now... we have the minister OFFERING to show US officials the draft bill beforehand?

I am appalled. When people talk about our current government not being entire enthusiastic about the parliamentary or democratic process, this is a fine example. The only thing keeping a DMCA-style law off the books was the fact that we had a minority parliament. Now it seems only a matter of time.

Re:Before tabled in Parliament?? Please, WTF? (1)

tqk (413719) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296600)

"They also cite cabinet minister Maxime Bernier raising the possibility of showing U.S. officials a draft bill before tabling it in Parliament."

FYI, from TFA, the paragraph immediately following reads:

The cables, from the U.S. Embassy in Ottawa, even have a policy director for then industry minister Tony Clement suggesting it might help U.S. demands for a tough copyright law if Canada were placed among the worst offenders on an international piracy watch list. Days later, the U.S. placed Canada alongside China and Russia on the list.

What strikes me as astonishing is how monumentally stupid this makes the US' powers that be look, as this action was immediately viewed with scorn and disbelief by pretty much anyone who noticed. Yet, has any of that scorn and disbelief made any dent in US policy intentions? Hell no, full steam ahead, ignore the peanut gallery. Let 'em eat cake.

Holy legislative capture, Batman!

Same thing happened in Spain (3, Informative)

Superken7 (893292) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296330)

The head of Spain's RIAA has been found to have encouraged Spain to be included in the "Special 301" list, as well.

This is especially irritating, since it is that same organization who has used "Special 301" as an argument to pressure the government into modifying our laws to combat webs which offered links to warez. It is worth pointing out that those same webs have been found to be completely legal for years, since they don't actually host the copyrighted material.

It is just amazing that a country will bow and modify its laws just because it was included in a "piracy list". Especially if what they intend to change is rather ineffective and too vague. Any web which links to material without the original author's permission can be blocked, which will probably result in 1. no less piracy and 2. abuse of this new law by others.

I don't understand why they would block the webs that link and do not host the material, instead of blocking those that do host the material.
Well, actually I do. It is, of course, because P2P links would be impossible to block (users would need to be blocked) without resorting to a HADOPI-style law - which they don't like because it is considered too impopular.

Following the money (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296404)

American and Canadian political lobbists nudge and wink at the respective politicians with a guarantee that after they are done with the public they will be looked after.
This is the value of Wikileaks, without them we would never have known that this was taking place. These types of secret proceeding are inevitably filed under some national security interest classification where they remain hidden from the prying public eyes.
We need to get these lying festering sores out of office and replace them with folks who are at least up front with the public. We certainly don't want politicians who are solely looking after their own pocket, who treat us like their personal piggy bank. An honest politician is hard to find, granted, but they are not yet extinct despite the passing of Jack Layton, who I never really agree with. He was at least he was honest.

Aren't Canadians wondering... (1)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296428)

...what the hell all this stuff was doing in US diplomatic cables? A lot of it sounds like ordinary internal discussion that occurs while forming policy, but why was the US embassy in on it? Makes Canada look like the US puppet that the Bolsheviks always said it was.

Re:Aren't Canadians wondering... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296508)

Actually, this is Canada carefully manipulating the USA, we just want it to look like we're the victim. The overall plan is to implement Canadian currency as the Common North American currency.
-eyeballs Mexico-

Re:Aren't Canadians wondering... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296930)

Duh. Because the only reason they are doing it at all is because of pressure from the U.S. government. They don't want to get in a trade war, since it would collapse the economy almost instantly and caving on this is, frankly, not that big a deal in the overall scheme of U.S/Canada trade.

The real question is why the U.S. makes such a big deal about it, and we call know the reason for that - lobbying by the entertainment industry.

Re:Aren't Canadians wondering... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297232)

Additionally, technology has rendered a lot of "information products" valueless. Without a common body of laws artificially inflating the value, it represents an immediate, and persistent, reduction of American GDP. Granted, it is not a lot of wealth, relative to most of the other industries comprising the economy, but copyright laws also afford indebted economic manipulators the ability to alter wealth-to-debt ratios, based on the "value" of information products (a value which, in a supply-driven market, they control).

For me, the biggest issue with this, is that those parties with real, tangible assets (natural resources) loose out big time, because these virtual "resources" undermine the true value of the true resource. A worthless, inflated currency based on virtual wealth is used to acquire real, physical goods.

This isn't about Canadian politics (4, Informative)

rbrander (73222) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296452)

This would have happened whether a "Conservative, right-wing" government was in or the Liberals. To understand, you need to read a 2008 story from the same watchdog, Michael Geist (to whom all Canada should be deeply indebted for tracking these issues for years):

http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/443867 [thestar.com]

The key phrase in the story is "Canadian officials arrived ready to talk about a series of economic concerns but were quickly rebuffed by their U.S. counterparts, who indicated that progress on other issues would depend upon action on the copyright file."

Americans are sometimes surprised to learn (Condi Rice was one, which was disappointing from a foreign-affairs scholar) that Canada is the US' largest trading partner, more bilateral trade than with your #2 (China) and your #4 (UK) combined, nearly as much as China+Japan (#3). So imagine how large a trading partner the US is for Canada - 80% of the total, last time I checked, that is, 4X as much trade as with all other partners combined.

When the US really wants to lean on Canada at trade discussions, their only difficulty is choosing which levers to pull: making trouble over standard inspections of meat and grains? Lumber? Re-investigating whether Canada subsidizes iron ore, holding up imports while doing so?

So you can find some profoundly anti-Canadian stances being taken by Canadian trade officials - until you see the larger picture and find they were arranging to charge all Canadians an extra $100/year for media content ($3 billion from 30 million people) to smooth the path for $6B in exports - of the $76B total, they only have to pick less than 10% to threaten.

Re:This isn't about Canadian politics (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296610)

This would have happened whether a "Conservative, right-wing" government was in or the Liberals.

You are using the false-dichotomy logical fallacy (and propaganda technique) that most right-wing people use to try to distinguish themselves and their dogmas from the more negative aspects and implementers of their ideology.

For those who are not Canadian, I will explain that Canada has two right wing parties: the Liberal party, and the far-right Conservative Party. We have one party in the centre (between Right and Left) called the NDP, and the Bloc Québécois, which is centre-left.

Unfortunately, the Conservatives (and the Liberals) like to define people who are against their policies and being "left-wing". One Conservative municipal councilor in Toronto (Georgio Mammoliti) has consistently called people who are against his extreme Right Wing policies as being "communists".

So when ANYBODY talks about the Left, or "socialists" or "communists" in Canada they are either lying or are extremely ignorant and misinformed about politics in Canada. Usually I have found that people who talk about the "left" (in Canada) just have political or journalistic agendas to adhere to; truth be damned.

Re:This isn't about Canadian politics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37296618)

Fuck off, you sanctimonious eurofag. Both parties in Canada are left-wing.

Re:This isn't about Canadian politics (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297042)

Indeed. I'm glad that I wasn't drinking coffee when I read that joke about the Conservatives being 'far right'.

Harper could school Machiavelli and Karl Rove. (3, Informative)

guidryp (702488) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296876)

It had everything to do with the ends justify the means right wing politics of Harper.

Read the OP:

“In contrast to the messages from other Canadian officials, she said that if Canada is elevated to the Special 301 Priority Watch List (PWL), it would not hamper — and might even help — the (government of Canada's) ability to enact copyright legislation,” the cable says.

Days later, Canada was elevated on the piracy watch list.

Harper has been copying the republican play book throughout his term in politics. Manufacture a crisis that needs the response he wants anyway.

Re:Harper could school Machiavelli and Karl Rove. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297026)

Harper has been copying the republican play book throughout his term in politics. Manufacture a crisis that needs the response he wants anyway.

That's not a republican playbook It's a universal play book for politicians.

"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

- Rahm Emanuel

  If you want to pass something unpopular you need to make people want it. A crisses is a perfect. Even the fact that you see a difference between most of the left and right is mainly due to them wanting you to see it as a crises when the other party is in charge but same things usually get passed only different campaign contributors get kickbacks. Like down here in the USA, If McCain where president we still would have had the stimulus and some sort of Rodney care clone passed. The money would have wound up in different hands of course.

Re:Harper could school Machiavelli and Karl Rove. (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297034)

Harper has been copying the republican play book throughout his term in politics. Manufacture a crisis that needs the response he wants anyway.

Um, no. That's been the _LEFT-WING_ play book for the last century or more.

Re:Harper could school Machiavelli and Karl Rove. (3, Insightful)

Your.Master (1088569) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297260)

No, it's the "political faction I disagree with as contrasted to the one I agree with" play book for the last century or more.

Really clumsy politics (2)

91degrees (207121) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296496)

Why is anyone paying any attention to this piracy list? Surely nobody's suggesting that the piracy level in Canada and Spain is anything like that in China or South Africa. Everyone realises that it's just there as a stick to try to bully these countries into capitulating to American demands.

But it's so obvious. Any politician who's remotely against American "cultural imperialism" is going to see it for what it is and actively work against the measures urged by the US. Surely the watch list does as much harm as good. There are much more subtle ways to get his message across.

Re:Really clumsy politics (1)

tqk (413719) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296972)

Why is anyone paying any attention to this piracy list?

That is the question. Wasn't it the US' GAO that admitted it was worthless, considering it was made up solely of numbers provided by the *AAs?

There are much more subtle ways to get his message across.

I think they've come to the conclusion that the US House of Reps & Senate are so bought off now, subtlety's no longer necessary. Think about it: who even cares about this issue other than pirates, patriots, bought off legislators, and the *AAs? The rest of the population, considering their buying habits, clearly don't give a flying fsck about any of this, if they even know about it. I very much doubt that my iPhone loving sister knows about it, nor cares one whit about Disney's copyright related shenanigans.

"Sheeple" is becoming a more valid word every day.

Re:Really clumsy politics (2)

msobkow (48369) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297172)

I wouldn't count on that. Downloading is rampant in Canada, because our government signed off on a surcharge for blank CDs that assumed everyone was using them to burn pirated music. As a result, downloading music is LEGAL in Canada -- we've paid for the privelege as a society.

Needless to say, the *AA are not happy about shooting themselves in the foot by pushing for that surcharge. They were just after the money, and didn't think about it's legal implications.

Go Dig Around Opensecrets.org for US Politicians (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 3 years ago | (#37296630)

Damn near every single Congressman gets a donation from the entertainment industry, usually in the 5 to 6 digit range. They like to say that campaign donations don't affect the legislative process, but it's very clear that they're firmly in the pockets of the industry. And they're obviously happy to throw their weight around and bully the rest of the world into passing laws to help their buddies.

Wish I was surprised.... (1)

Commontwist (2452418) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297028)

Things are bound to get more interesting with Harper in majority and not in a good way. This is the Prime Minister who loves preventing the public to find out what's going on in 'his' government and is apparently going to move a bill that allows spying on the public's Internet.

Two Face is alive and well. We need Batman.

Re:Wish I was surprised.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297652)

The fact that you're referring to American media to drive home your point is more indicative of the problems of sovereignty we are dealing with, than what any politician is doing. Harper et al are acting on a cultural trend which is has already snowballed enough to have momentum. Canada needs more patriotic promoters. Care to be one (it doesn't pay well, BTW)?

How to lose friends and anger people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297132)

The conservative government is clearly biting off something that Canadians are unwilling to chew. There is no "Tea Party" in Canada. Most people don't like Kevin Oleary style politics. Unbridled laissez faire economics (and markets) are like any machine with the governers, controls and safety options stripped off. People will get hurt. Canadians don't like that, and won't tolerate it. See the rapid adoption of the NDP in the last election? There could be an equally rapid adoption of Liberal policies (and basically the death of the Conservative party) if what many Canadians agree is draconian policies and kow-towing of the Conservative party to US commercial interests. This is serious! The conservative party was very happy to get a majority. It *WILL* be a one-term party if this goes through. This law will be repealed in less than 5 years, and Canadian copyright laws will be *more* liberal than they are *right now* in retaliation. Go ahead, double dog dare ya. Just place foot, aim and fire!

Re:How to lose friends and anger people (1)

SockPuppetOfTheWeek (1910282) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297210)

Go ahead, double dog dare ya. Just place foot, aim and fire!

Aim, and then fire?

That's putting the horse before the cart, don't you think? Anything worth doing is worth doing right now. When everything looks like a nail, all you need is a hammer.

A bigger question - WHY was this redacted? (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#37297590)

If this is new information, I assume it stems from the recent full release of all documents.

So now you have to ask - just WHY was this redacted in the original set? This seems exactly like the kind of thing wikileaks is there to air. So why did they decide to hold this item back?

This is just further evidence that a third party has no businesses redacting anything. Any leaks group should act only as a conduit, not as a arbitrator who decides what stays secret.

As a Canadian... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37297640)

I enjoy being on the watch list...... it makes me feel dangerous!
Oh, and I'm watching you Americans too..... you bitches.

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