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5 Years In Prison For Selling Fake Cisco Gear

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the does-that-even-match-the-warranty-period? dept.

The Courts 239

angry tapir writes "A Virginia woman was sentenced Friday to five years in prison for leading a 'sophisticated' conspiracy to import and sell counterfeit Cisco Systems networking equipment. In addition to the prison time, Judge Gerald Bruce Lee of U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia also ordered Chun-Yu Zhao, 43, of Chantilly, Virginia, to pay US$2.7 million restitution and a $17,500 fine."

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239 comments

Bruce Lee (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373082)

Don't mess with Bruce Lee.

speculating about the real purpose (5, Interesting)

Walt Dismal (534799) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373116)

I'm wondering whether there was a deeper purpose to importing counterfeited equipment. If such could be successfully sold into government operations, it could then be used for backdoors if it had been outfitted with modified ICs designed to support that. That the importer was in Virginia normally would not be too important, but Virginia and Maryland being prime areas for government installations makes it more suspicious, if they were going to pose as a local supplier. Then, by cutting their price on bids below normal competitors, they could steer their equipment into specific departments.

I think they ought to open up some of those counterfeits, spend some money de-capping some chips, and take a good look at what's really in them.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373184)

Or maybe she just wanted to make a quick buck like the thousands of other people selling counterfeit goods. Stop watching CSI.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373298)

Zhao was working for the Chinese government.

I could tell you more but I'd end up in Leavenworth.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (0)

Silvermistshadow (1943284) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373416)

I once went there. Of course, that was in a video game, as with a lot of things I've supposedly done or experienced (such as performing a kidney transplant)

Re:speculating about the real purpose (3, Insightful)

MrQuacker (1938262) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373440)

They all work for the Chinese Government....

Re:speculating about the real purpose (2)

Walt Dismal (534799) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373494)

Make a quick buck? How many small-scale counterfeiters can afford to precisely duplicate a circuit board of that size and a rack cabinet to match the rela goods, then manufacture, populate, stuff and test the board? The parts aren't cheap, and some router chips aren't the kind of thing you order from a distributor. it's not something a momma-poppa shop would do. it takes money and effort. There are far easier goods to counterfeit if profit is the main objective.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (3, Informative)

aix tom (902140) | more than 2 years ago | (#37374062)

Well, it IS entirely possible that these "counterfeit" things came from the exact same production line made by the exact same people that make the Cisco gear. Only they didn't sell it to Cisco, which then would have slapped their sticker on and sold it for three times the price, but just conterfeitet the sticker and sold it for double.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (5, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373680)

Dude industrial espionage between governments is as old as time. My grandfather was stationed in Germany and he used to laugh that if the Soviets wanted to take out the German bases all they'd have to do is send one plane at a time as they were ordered not to shoot at single Soviet planes. Why? Because we had a bounty on any Soviet air tech and we wanted to make sure the pilots knew they could just fly across the border and they'd be safe (and well paid). The Russians got us as well, they paid the Chinese for a dud Sidewinder that got stuck in one of their planes and jumped 10 years on their missile tech. According to the Wiki [wikipedia.org] the copy they made of the sidewinder was so perfect you could mix and match parts and it would work perfectly.

The Israelis stole the plans for the Mirage from the French, the Chinese paid dirt farmers to dig up pieces of our crashed F117 so they could save years in research on stealth tech. It isn't like they are wanting to go to war with us, they are wanting to save billions in R&D. If they could get those routers into the right areas they could have all our best tech before it even rolls out of prototype stage. think about how much money that would save them in research!

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373714)

My mother was stationed in Germany as an Army cryptographic clerk and she used to tell me a funny story about a German couple who approached her asking for eggs in broken English, so she went to the grocery store and bought them a carton of eggs.

She later realized the the couple were, of course, trying to obtain information about the Army crypto eggs.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

_Shad0w_ (127912) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373734)

Conveniently Russia and NATO subs used exactly the same docking rings on their hatches too, iirc.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

failedlogic (627314) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373216)

Maryland and Virginia aren't just normal government hubs. They're also the center of military, capital, state department and foreign embassies. If she were selling Cisco routers in Farming Field, Nebraska then I agree no red flags. This is a little too convenient a place to sell such devices.
 

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

jtownatpunk.net (245670) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373488)

Yeah, because distribution is always restricted to a 100 mile radius of the vendor's location.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373570)

That Maryland and Virginia are one of the centers of administrative aspects of US government does not mean that it's where the gubmint data centers are...

For example, much of the Air Force's crunching goes on at Maxwell AFB (and the Gunter Annex) in Alabama.

If someone or something were to take out Gunter Annex, things would stop , Air Force wise.

For how long? Who knows. But to say it would be an inconvenience is an understatement.

Without a doubt, Maxwell and Gutner have a big target on them, high on the list.of targets...

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

Telvin_3d (855514) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373756)

If you are doing man-in-the middle attacks and access hacks, I suspect that owning the equipment that is being used to request the data in question is about as good as owning the equipment being used to send it from the data center. Might even be more useful if it provided ways to more easily associate the data with specific users.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (2)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373320)

In that case, wouldn't it have been better for them to have used genuine Cisco equipment and eat the price difference?

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373364)

The idea behind counterfeit equipment is to pass it off as the real thing nine times out of ten. Sure it's possible they are marketing it to someone who knows it's fake but at some point that stuff is getting sold as the real thing.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373414)

They probably asked for genuine Cisco equipment and awarded the contract to the lowest bidder who, unbeknownst to them, used counterfeit products.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

shawn(at)fsu (447153) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373454)

contracts aren't just rolled up, everything is itemeized, if the equipment shows up noticbaly lower than the other proposals someone will notice. And the lowest price doesnt always win, sometimes if the price a company propses is too low it demonstrates a severe lack of understanding the work to be done.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373730)

In the end, we haven't seen the contract, the bids, nor the RFP so there's no point continuing to argue based on assumptions.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (0)

mattjb0010 (724744) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373956)

there's no point continuing to argue based on assumptions.

You must be new here.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373352)

No, Virginia would be the stupidest place to try to slip in modified Cisco routers. They'd be sending backdoor encryption keys to the Chinese, not the NSA, and the NSA would certainly notice when their local hacks stopped working.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373594)

Right. Because if the Chinese wanted to sell altered Cisco routers they would have to sell counterfeit Cisco routers. I mean there's no way the Chinese could just alter the genuine ones. For that they would have to be manufacturing them.

If you're going to be paranoid because she's Chinese, at least think it through.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373706)

There was a story about a year ago about the military buying hacked routers. I'd bet this is related.

Nope... (3, Insightful)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373746)

I'm wondering whether there was a deeper purpose to importing counterfeited equipment. If such could be successfully sold into government operations, it could then be used for backdoors...

Cisco gear is *made* in China. We're not dealing with pin-heads here, if they wanted to "backdoor" routers, they would at least attempt to "backdoor" the real things with Chinese operatives in Chinese factories where these routers are made, while on Chinese soil...

This, of course, is one of the great weaknesses of the shift of manufacturing away from US soil, we just don't make things anymore.

Not long down the road, all those Filipino maids in the rich palazzos, palaces, and chateaus will be replaced with American maids.

Re:speculating about the real purpose (2)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373776)

Given Cisco's history of federal cooperation, I do have to wonder if the deeper concern was that such equipment _lacked_ the backdoors Cisco provides for "legal" monitoring. Some examples are described at http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/03/hackers-networking-equipment-technology-security-cisco.html [forbes.com] .

Re:speculating about the real purpose (1)

dila813 (1085573) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373830)

I am sure that they got a hold of a lot of these. She was obviously tied in to the military over there.

More to the story, I'll bet... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373124)

When you consider what sort of information travels through networking equipment -- financial and government data, national security information, corporate secrets -- then it's not just a piece of hardware that was being counterfeited. Code on these devices can be extremely complex (I used to work for a firewall manufacturer) and it would be well within the capabilities of a small government to engineer a network device that could secretly send back information to a listening party.

Punishment should fit the crime (4, Funny)

GaryOlson (737642) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373130)

She should be sentenced to 5 years of pulling cat6 cable thru 200 year old buildings in Boston; and removing all the old POTS wire.

Re:Punishment should fit the crime (1)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373442)

Is that with, or without the roaches and rats? I vote with.

Re:Punishment should fit the crime (1)

mjwx (966435) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373450)

She should be sentenced to 5 years of pulling cat6 cable thru 200 year old buildings in Boston; and removing all the old POTS wire.

That would fall under the "cruel and unusual" clause as by the time she's done pulling Cat 6 through, it'll be obsolete.

Why not just do it right the first time and do it with fibre.

Re:Punishment should fit the crime (1)

Zuriel (1760072) | more than 2 years ago | (#37374016)

Cat6e will do 10 gigabit which should be quite adequate for most purposes for quite some time. More importantly, you can plug it into any cheap existing network device and run 100 megabits over it. If you have fibre running through a building, you'll have a network that an awful lot of devices can't easily connect to.

Re:Punishment should fit the crime (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373550)

Sorry we signed the Geneva Convention. There's no way that would be legal.

Re:Punishment should fit the crime (1)

_Shad0w_ (127912) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373748)

Which only applies to warfare and prisoners of war. That's why your police are allowed to shoot people with hollow head rounds and the armed forces aren't.

Cisco Compatible (4, Interesting)

Spazmania (174582) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373132)

The irony is that nowadays folks legally sell the same equipment as "Cisco Compatible." She went to jail over a sticker.

Re:Cisco Compatible (4, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373322)

That's fraud for you. Almost any typically-legal activity can be a crime if you are lying to the other parties involved about what is going on. In this case, I'm assuming that the sticker she went to jail for raised the margin on the goods in question by a nontrivial amount.

Now, depending on exactly how "compatible" the stuff being sold is, it could be that the seller is either committing fraud by claiming even compatibility, or committing some flavor of copyright infringement against Cisco; but selling falsely labelled goods will push you across the line from legitimate to criminal almost no matter what the product in question is.

Re:Cisco Compatible (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373408)

Espeically because whenI buy something Cisco compatible I dont pay cisco proices and get a cisco. I bet her buyers did not know the stuff was not from cisco - and likely paid more than for a clone. Ignoreing all the legal moral implications of copyright law, I rather want to have what I am sold, not someting fake. Especially when I pay for it.

Re:Cisco Compatible (1)

jroysdon (201893) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373498)

It's probably identical equipment, just made on a third shift that is off the books using serial numbers from the first and second shifts and sold as "out of channel" for a discount.

Or, it may be equipment that is made totally identically (or leaving out "unnecessary" parts or using cheaper parts).

Worst case, it may be an operation backed by the Chinese government to get back doors into the hardware used in mission critical systems.

Re:Cisco Compatible (1)

formfeed (703859) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373592)

Now, depending on exactly how "compatible" the stuff being sold is, it could be that the seller is either committing fraud by claiming even compatibility, or committing some flavor of copyright infringement against Cisco...

It might be even extremely compatible, in that it might come from the same factory that just makes a few more units after fulfilling Cisco's order...

Re:Cisco Compatible (1)

Nalez (556446) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373572)

Some of the documents say they operated through the company JDC networking [jdcnetworking.com] (still up and running, but imageless)

One thing about this case...
You can not tell me you look at that website [archive.org] , and think you are getting "cisco compatable" stuff, and not true, 100% Cisco stuff.

Re:Cisco Compatible (3, Interesting)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373584)

That's Chinese for you. They are pathological about faking - even when the same goods could be sold legitimately - even when they have a good product! They'll still make it a counterfeit.

There's a story I like to tell about stickers. A friend of mine was sourcing some sunglasses. He asks, "Do they have UV protection?" Evidently there's some confusion about translating ultraviolet radiation into Chinese. The translator goes back and forth for a few minutes. Finally the Chinese boss perks up and says, in English, "Oh, yes, we have sticker!" True story.

Re:Cisco Compatible (2)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373828)

No, she probably went to jail because of the warranty. That's how most counterfeiters get caught these days. The unit stops working as it should, or the unit is dead on arrival. Someone calls Cisco support, expecting to get the warranty and the service they paid for, only to be told their device is a fake, and therefore is not going to be replaced/serviced.

Then someone calls this lady (since she's the one who originally sold you the device), you end up corresponding with ten different people all bearing different names, but instead, you're only talking to the same lady who's giving you the run around (using her ten different identities), until a couple of weeks later, the email messages you send to her company bounce back to you as the domain is no longer valid, and the phone number you call for support answers with an error message as it has gotten disconnected with no forwarding number given.

Golden Girls! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373138)

Thank you for being a friend
Traveled down the road and back again
Your heart is true, you're a pal and a cosmonaut.

And if you threw a party
Invited everyone you ever knew
You would see the biggest gift would be from me
And the card attached would say, thank you for being a friend.

Re:Golden Girls! (1)

davetv (897037) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373610)

I think you mean "confidant" not cosmonaut

That seems excessive... (2)

__Paul__ (1570) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373168)

You can get less jail time than that for manslaughter [3news.co.nz] .

Re:That seems excessive... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373258)

Doesn't manslaughter imply that it was unintentional? And, there are different levels of manslaughter depending on whether they did all they could to avoid the situation or how unavoidable it was, e.g. stayed within the speed limit, the roads were slippery and the car hydroplaned against their will, etc.

Whereas this was no accident, she was knowingly and intentionally breaking the law and robbing a company of a substantial number of sales. Five years probably was a bit lenient considering that.

Re:That seems excessive... (1)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373422)

That link is the "Sure I intentionally punched him in the head, but I didn't expect him to die from it" variety. Which hopefully is as bad as manslughter gets before being called murder.

Re:That seems excessive... (1)

BlueParrot (965239) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373296)

That's because motive matters a lot in all criminal proceedings ( and rightly so ). Manslaughter is usually a crime you get when you do something wrong, and the consequence is that somebody dies, but you did not intend to cause such severe harm. In the case you linked two people got into an argument, one guy landed a punch, and unfortunately the guy who got hit fell from the punch and hit his head. Most people don't realize that a punch can be so dangerous, so throwing the book on the perpetrator is just stupid.

Another common situation where a manslaughter charge may be given is when you defend yourself but use excessive force to do so. Say you're outside late, somebody runs up to you from behind, you get scared and grab a nearby blunt object and hit the person to defend yourself. It then turns out that he was just trying to give you your wallet back that you dropped earlier, and your blow was severe enough to kill. That kind of situation could , depending on circumstances, land you a manslaughter conviction, but locking you up for many years would obviously not be appropriate.

You can't just compare individual cases without knowing the circumstances. We had a case in Sweden some time ago when an elderly couple had moved into a new house and found a marijuana plant left over by the previous tenants. They did not realise what it was, so they simply planted it in their front yard, and eventually police came asking them about it. Technically our law would have them guilty of growing and manufacturing an illegal drug, but fortunately this case was not handled by some insane twat, and hence there was no consequences beyond some questioning with a few amused officers.

Re:That seems excessive... (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373380)

Another common situation where a manslaughter charge may be given is when you defend yourself but use excessive force to do so. Say you're outside late, somebody runs up to you from behind, you get scared and grab a nearby blunt object and hit the person to defend yourself. It then turns out that he was just trying to give you your wallet back that you dropped earlier, and your blow was severe enough to kill. That kind of situation could , depending on circumstances, land you a manslaughter conviction, but locking you up for many years would obviously not be appropriate.

Locking you up at all makes no sense.
The convicted is
a) Not a danger to society
b) Not of a criminal state of mind
c) Not in need of rehabilitation
d) truly remorseful
e) Likely more in need of counseling to get over what he did than anything else.

The victims family likely want to see "justice" but what is justice? Taking 5+ years of another mans life over an accident is just revenge.

But letting him off scott free seems wrong even to me... but perhaps a few thousands of hours of community service over a period of several years seem more a propos than incarceration to me. Have him do some good to make up for the evil he unintentially inflicted.

Re:That seems excessive... (2)

xstonedogx (814876) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373560)

The convicted is
a) Not a danger to society

Except for the part where he overreacts and kills people, he's a great guy!

Re:That seems excessive... (1)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373728)

b) Not of a criminal state of mind
c) Not in need of rehabilitation
d) truly remorseful

And I think the *27* prior convictions for various other offenses more or less covers the rest...

Re:That seems excessive... (1)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373866)

The victims family likely want to see "justice" but what is justice? Taking 5+ years of another mans life over an accident is just revenge.

That's all that people care about anymore. Remember that we live in a post-forgiveness society now; one felony and you are forever shut out of the middle class unless you are lucky enough to find an employer willing to take a chance on you again (good luck with that) or found the next big company. The prison industrial complex is creating an expanding underclass in our society of people who are shut out of any chance at redemption or equal opportunities.

Re:That seems excessive... (2)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373482)

It's not just falsely labelling some goods, there's the money laundering part and the falsely obtaining citizenship part - both of which probably account for some of that sentence.

And I'm pretty sure that that lieing on the citizenship part ruling is worse than the 5 years in jail - she gets deported back to China the day she is released from prison (well "released from prison" really just means "custody transfered to ICE" in that case).

Re:That seems excessive... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373506)

Well, it just wasn't the re-branding of some cheapo routers...

http://www.justice.gov/usao/vae/news/2011/05/20110526zhaonr.html [justice.gov]

"In addition to the conspiracy conviction, Zhao was convicted of 15 additional counts, including importation fraud, trafficking in counterfeit goods and labels, false statements to law enforcement, false statements in naturalization and money laundering. She was acquitted on one count of false statements and one count of money laundering. "

Re:That seems excessive... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373652)

Buddy, you've linked an article in NEW ZEALAND while the story is in the US. In the US you do not get 3 years for manslaughter. 1st degree murder or even felony murder gets you life or death penalty. Per linked article, the guy would have received 10 years to life in US.

Re:That seems excessive... (1)

1729 (581437) | more than 2 years ago | (#37374080)

Buddy, you've linked an article in NEW ZEALAND while the story is in the US. In the US you do not get 3 years for manslaughter. 1st degree murder or even felony murder gets you life or death penalty. Per linked article, the guy would have received 10 years to life in US.

Here's a case in the US from a few years ago, where a similar crime resulted in a 1 year jail sentence:

http://www.channel3000.com/news/20400719/detail.html [channel3000.com]

Re:That seems excessive... (1)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373860)

I guess the moral of the story is that she should move to New Zealand the next time she does this. She'll probably get a lighter sentence.

Good. (1)

ScentCone (795499) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373180)

Maybe not good enough, though. Who knows what sort of holes that gear may have left on networks, or what sort of issues it may introduce in a mission critical setting. To say nothing of the rampant financial shenanigans and who knows what sort of tax evasion and other little details. No, five years for that sort of ongoing, large-scale fraud isn't enough.

Re:Good. (1)

MichaelKristopeit419 (2018878) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373306)

who knows what sort of holes authentic cisco gear may have left on networks?

you're an ignorant hypocrite.

Re:Good. (1)

sjames (1099) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373424)

It very probably was made by the same people on the same line with the same components as the real Cisco gear, it just got a fake serial number and didn't get counted on the books.

It is no more or less likely to open holes in the network than the gear with an authentic Cisco serial number.

The wrongdoing was the fraud on a grand scale.

Any cooperation from China? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373208)

All they did was take out one dealership it sounds like. Can only imagine the shitstorm that would occur if some US operation was caught manufacturing fake Huawei equipment. As China rises as a global power, at some point, more is going to have to be expected of them to act as a responsible global power, and stop looking the other way. There is a huge asymmetry between the economic might of a rising China, and the global responsibility one would expect the world's second largest economy to exhibit.

I understand all countries cheat, but to cheat in such a blatantly mickey mouse manner....and not get any sort of official governmental promise to "crack down" is disturbing....and likely indicative of a growing disconnect between Chinese business, and Chinese government.

You can take the person out of China... (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373224)

You can take the person out of China... ...but you can't take the Chinese out of the person!

Re:You can take the person out of China... (1, Insightful)

wisebabo (638845) | more than 2 years ago | (#37374086)

Your racist comment is belied by the fact that in THIS VERY SAME ARTICLE the presiding judge is presumably Chinese himself but sought to impose the maximum(?) penalty.

It could be that he is not Chinese (maybe Korean or another nationality) but with the name Gerald BRUCE Lee given to him by hopefully well meaning parents, I think it is more than likely he is of Chinese extraction.

Where's Cisco in all this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373312)

Are they sitting idly by, or are they assisting in any equipment standards and Q/A with what's being put to market?

I really have to wonder since, a decade ago, Cisco was THE NAME in networking gear. Every tech. shop I ran across had Cisco gear in their closet. What the hell happened to Management to allow this type of situation to creep into the tech. sector? Or did those Board members cash out of the game, giving their replacements a shop with the blood-stains hidden?

Re:Where's Cisco in all this? (1)

belthize (990217) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373340)

To the extent that they can they do. First they push really hard to force you to buy from authorized retailers. I'm not real thrilled with that but I understand it, secondly if you request the serial upfront you can find it's history. There's not much else they can do. If you insist on buying from a non-authorized retailer you're at
risk.

I recently bought a 4510R+E (about $50K with cards) that was claimed to be an overstock item from a non-authorized reseller. The serial was reportedly one shipped to China. That's fairly common for the fake Cisco, they obtain a real one and send back clones with that serial. Needless to say we didn't buy it.

The U.S. reached out and 'touched' bin Laden. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373338)

God bless the USA.

Why is the US govt. playing enforcer for Cisco? (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373368)

Cisco Systems Inc. (CSCO) has cut its income taxes by $7 billion since 2005 by booking roughly half its worldwide profits at a subsidiary at the foot of the Swiss Alps that employs about 100 peopleâ¦

Ciscoâ(TM)s techniques cut the effective tax rate on its reported international income to about 5 percent since 2008 by moving profits from roughly $20 billion in annual global sales through the Netherlands, Switzerland and Bermuda, according to its records in four countries. (cite [bloomberg.com] ).

If Cisco wants to book their profits in Bermuda (to circumvent supporting the US justice system, among other things) then they should file their complaints against counterfeiters in Bermuda as well. I'm sick of these freeloaders. There's no legal team at the DOJ spending millions to defend my rights, that I can tell.

Re:Why is the US govt. playing enforcer for Cisco? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373658)

You're assuming Cisco is the only victim? What about the buyers? If this equipment is sub-par and goes into mission critical projects, people might die. This was in Virginia, and if the equipment is sold to a government entity and it has back-doors, secrets might be lost and people might die.

Five years seems very reasonable to me.

Re:Why is the US govt. playing enforcer for Cisco? (2)

ScentCone (795499) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373838)

Cisco is being protected, yes. But so is the market, from fraudulant participants selling fake goods.

Wrist slap. (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373376)

White-collar crimes like this are barely punished. Five years is a joke considering possible intelligence compromise from doctored gear.

Want to DETER white-collar criminals? Give them hard time in population where they must struggle to survive and cannot recover when they finally do get out. Destroy them as examples to others.

Re:Wrist slap. (1)

MrQuacker (1938262) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373452)

Or do like China, and just sell their organs. That'll teach em!

Re:Wrist slap. (1)

walshy007 (906710) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373464)

Continuing with your line of reasoning.. why not set the ultimate example and simply kill on sight?

People consider an eye for an eye barbarous, and yet an arm for a pinky seems completely acceptable to them.

The aim of the penal system should not be to make examples of people, it should be to enable people to return to being functional useful members of society.

Re:Wrist slap. (1)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373754)

Five years is a joke considering possible intelligence compromise from doctored gear.

Well, was the gear used to compromise intelligence or not? If it was, that's another (much more serious) crime. If it wasn't then that crime wasn't committed so you don't punish someone for it.

Re:Wrist slap. (1, Insightful)

rahvin112 (446269) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373862)

Yes cause we all know just how successful it is to not only destroy peoples lives, but their future any sense of empathy. What you suggest doesn't work, and there is hundreds of years of evidence that it doesn't. The death penalty would be a highly effective measure at deterring crime if anyone gave a rats ass about deterrents. Not a single person considers the consequences of their actions before they commit crimes. Plenty of people have been severely punished for white collar crime. Ken Lay got 30 years, did that stop the bank fraud that caused the economic crash after Enron?

You're a fool if you think there is such a thing as a deterrent and it's even worse if you think destroying someone will make the world a better place. In fact based on your post you are probably stupid enough to think prison rape does anything at all other than destroy lives.

A judge can strip someone of their US citizenship? (1)

MisterP (156738) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373456)

"Judge Gerald Bruce Lee of U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia [...] also stripped Zhao, from China, of her U.S. citizenship"

What the hell? I was unaware that there are different classes of citizenship. What if a person born as an American did this?

Re:A judge can strip someone of their US citizensh (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373604)

What the hell? I was unaware that there are different classes of citizenship. What if a person born as an American did this?

You're given New Jersey residency and forced to live in Trenton.

Re:A judge can strip someone of their US citizensh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373648)

Yes for certain types of treason. But its rare as far as i know.

Re:A judge can strip someone of their US citizensh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373654)

It is possible to strip a non native born citizen of their U.S. citizenship if their is evidence they obtained said citizenship through forgery or fraud. It is not possible to strip a native born U.S. citizen of their U.S. citizenship.

Re:A judge can strip someone of their US citizensh (2)

snl2587 (1177409) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373670)

The article mentions that they discovered lies on Zhao's citizenship application, and thus invalidated it.

Re:A judge can strip someone of their US citizensh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373696)

The article says she was convicted of obtaining her U.S. citizenship through fraud.

Re:A judge can strip someone of their US citizensh (1)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373784)

If can be invalidated if fraud was committed on the citizenship application.

FTA: "Zhao also fraudulently obtained U.S. citizenship based on lies on her citizenship application, the agency said."

Given the questions asked (1)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373884)

a lot of people would probably be telling a "white lie" here and there, on those forms. I have no experience with this, but it's most likely easier to get into heaven than it is to get into the USA, if you answer the questions honestly.

Without knowing what fraudulent answers she gave, it's not unthinkable that they just revoked her citizenship because she lied about getting a ticket for jaywalking before she entered the USA, or something trivial like that.

Re:A judge can strip someone of their US citizensh (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373870)

If they committed some sort of fraud in the context of obtaining their citizenship, that can be grounds to reverse it.

It would be analogous to somebody claiming to be a citizen by birth; but being discovered to have been born elsewhere.

Re:A judge can strip someone of their US citizensh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37374068)

She was stripped of her citizenship because she lied on her immigration application, not because she committed a crime.

Question here (0)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373484)

If the gear being sold was an accurate clone of Cisco gear, would you still consider it "fake"?

If you hear a bit-perfect copy of a piece of music, and it had been downloaded from TPB, would you consider that music "fake"? Would your experience of hearing it be "fake"?

I'm not saying the stuff that the guy who got convicted sold was a perfect clone of the Cisco gear, but if it were, what would be "fake" about it, and would it matter? Does it matter to the bits that flow through it?

We're probably closer to the ability to make perfect copies of physical objects than some care to admit. It's worth thinking about what that will mean to the way "fake" is being used here.

My guess is that most of the world wouldn't care if a perfect copy was fake. That's a problem for the minority of people who obtain wealth through "intellectual property". Because when you start having stronger and stronger laws against something that most people don't care about, you create a disconnect between law and society. Ultimately, that leads to either complete disregard of the law or outright tyranny in order to enforce it. And, as every single tyrant has found, tyrannies cannot last. Eventually, they're going to fall, and when they do, it's usually ugly.

Re:Question here (3, Insightful)

pclminion (145572) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373518)

I'm not saying the stuff that the guy who got convicted sold was a perfect clone of the Cisco gear, but if it were, what would be "fake" about it, and would it matter? Does it matter to the bits that flow through it?

Are you serious? When you had a problem with your "Cisco" equipment and called Cisco, do you think they'd help you out with your counterfeit gear?

Re:Question here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373532)

The problem with "fake" Cisco gear which probably came off their own lines is that lack of support contract.

It's more or less like purchasing used equipment without any support contract. I've had to do this in the past, but we made sure to purchase spare used gear. It was still wholly cheaper then purchasing new gear with a support contract.

Re:Question here (3, Insightful)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373608)

So your stance is that every single company on Earth must manufacture their own goods in secret. They cannot use a 3rd party factory, because the factory can just steal the plans and cut the designer out the equation. They cannot have a brand, because if they work hard to build consumer trust, some seedy knock-off company can just start using their name and logo. They cannot reveal their nifty new discoveries in a trade journal, as the ideas will just be stolen. If an employee leaves, they can take everything they ever designed with them, and never mind the fact that their salary was meant to be payment for those designs. Authors and musicians and movie makers and game makers have to beg for donations, since no one need pay them for their works.

Your ideas are so poorly thought out, it's almost childlike.

Intellectual property is a necessity for any modern economy. People could get by without such rules back when occupational choices were farmer, hunter, ditch-digger, and prostitute. But today's society is much improved, and those improvements require us to follow certain rules to maintain.

Re:Question here (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373786)

its called counterfeiting and yes its fake you numbnut

Re:Question here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37374070)

If I had a perfect copy of a pile of money...

It's 10 years.... (3, Funny)

Lord_of_the_nerf (895604) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373490)

..for selling actual Cisco gear.

How they caught them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373502)

The fake user manuals were written in flawless English.

Re:How they caught them (1)

Falconhell (1289630) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373640)

Reminds me of an old story about early mauals for Japanese goods. After many complaints, they finally supplied one with perfect english and spelling with the exception of the last words.

Plinted in english (:

Bruce Lee? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373624)

Any one else missed this? Hiiiiyaaaaaaaaaaa! NGggggiiiiyaaaaaaaaoooooooooo!

If security is actually the concern, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373632)

The network by definition must be seen as insecure, if there are any unencrypted packets containing classified data on those networks we have a lot worse problems than back doors in routers

I feel sorry for the judge... (1)

wisebabo (638845) | more than 2 years ago | (#37373850)

... I mean, being named Gerald BRUCE Lee by his parents must have exposed him to quite a bit of mocking as a kid!

Oh, well maybe it toughened him up (isn't that the premise of the song "A boy named Sue"?). Anyway, as a judge maybe he can take it out on some of his former tormentors!

By the way, I'm Asian-American (if you haven't guessed by my slashdot name).

What was her crime ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373902)

Selling Linksys ? They are owned by Cisco...

Chinese Briefly Hijack US Web Traffic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373950)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/11/17/cybersecurity-china-idUSN1615357620101117

Remember that story?

This one has something to do with it I'm sure.

She's being put in jail for a bunch of stuff all of which revolves around fraud. She was misrepresenting her product to customers which to be honest is something most big corps do these days and the majority of it results in civil, not criminal charges. BTW Copyright violations are a civil matter and should stay civil so don't drag that into this as well.

Thats some kung fu judgement being passed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37373952)

What? Am I the only one?

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