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Ask Slashdot: 802.11n Bake-Off Test Plans?

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the uss-enterprise-level dept.

Businesses 125

First time accepted submitter Richard_13 writes "I am seeking a bake-off test plan for an enterprise size deployment of 802.11n wireless. We are about to go to tender for a large scale deployment of 802.11n controllers and APs — and I need a bake-off (benchmarking) test plan that is focused on testing the *maximum number* of clients that an AP can handle before it falls over, in addition to the throughput for each client. We intend to test the latest products from the major vendors, Aruba, Cisco, HP, Xirrus, Ruckus, etc.; not consumer products like Linksys, D-Link or Netgear. Any bake-off test plans or useful links to multi-vendor wireless focused web sites would be greatly appreciated."

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You need to say Bake-off (1, Funny)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425584)

one more time~

Re:You need to say Bake-off (0)

_merlin (160982) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425624)

420 4eva bra! let's get baked!

Bake sale (5, Interesting)

suso (153703) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425838)

Maybe you could hold a bake sale and offer free wifi for all your customers. Just give them places to sit.

Re:You need to say Bake-off (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426036)

Paraphrased from Pulp Fiction:

[brandishing gun]: "Say 'bake-off' again..Say 'bake-off' again! I dare ya..I double-dare ya, mothafucka! Say 'bake-off' one more god-damn time!!"

Re:You need to say Bake-off (2)

SgtKeeling (717065) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426108)

Wish I had some mod points for this one.

Baked all day (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425592)

Oh yeah. Baked all day! Bake bake!

"Bake-off" (5, Insightful)

PeanutButterBreath (1224570) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425614)

Just say "benchmarking" and you won't need to explain that "bake-off" means "benchmarking". Wait, what was the question?

Re:"Bake-off" (2)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425686)

I'm not sure, but I think that "peanut butter cookies" may be the answer.

Re:"Bake-off" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426094)

I'm not sure, but I think that "peanut butter cookies" may be the answer.

Peanut butter cookies suck. Double chocolate chip all the way.

Re:"Bake-off" (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426324)

I am allergic to peanuts you insensitive clod!

Re:"Bake-off" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425752)

I thought we were smoking something....

Re:"Bake-off" (1)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425958)

A bake-off and a benchmark aren't exactly the same things. Price, ease of configuration and deployment, general vendor responsiveness, and other things may come into play, besides the raw performance numbers.

It's a term the sales droids and CTOs seem to use a lot; not so much other people.

Re:"Bake-off" (2, Insightful)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426176)

If I hear a CTO say "bake off" instead of "trade study," I'm talking to the CEO about making the CTO a CUO (completely unemployed oaf).

Re:"Bake-off" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37427484)

If the CTO is remotely worth having, he'll be well enough known in his field that a nobody's opinion won't be of interest to anyone.

Re:"Bake-off" (4, Insightful)

sjames (1099) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426500)

The correct meaning of bake-off is when many different makes of a device that are supposed to support a standard are paired off to see if they actually inter-operate.

As usual, the sales droids and CTOs (that didn't come up through the ranks) abuse the term to try to sound like engineers.

Re:"Bake-off" (1)

Motor (104119) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426162)

I've been around on slashdot long enough to remember this bit of idiocy from way back [slashdot.org] . The top comment still makes me chuckle every time I hear "bake off"... even 10 years later.

Re:"Bake-off" (0)

sjames (1099) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426416)

Except that a bake-off and benchmarking are not at all the same thing, but can happen in the same event.

Re:"Bake-off" (1)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 3 years ago | (#37427978)

I thought I was the naive guy who didn't know and didn't want to say anything.
What the hell does bake off mean? I know he explained it but that's not good enough, who the hell calls it a bakeoff?

have fun (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425622)

wasting all your channels on wireless n.

Make the vendors work for you (5, Informative)

RedLeg (22564) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425640)

Call a meeting of the competitors engineers. It's important you get them all in the room at one time with not too much advance warning of the topic.

Tell them what you think you want. Ask them as a group what you're missing. Then make them as a group come up with an eval plan and cook 'em off according to the plan they come up with.

If you need an independent judge, go to one of the labs that does independent third-party assurance and contract them to provide oversight.

Disclaimer: I've worked for one of those labs for the past 15 years.

Stand back and watch the fun......

Red

Re:Make the vendors work for you (-1, Offtopic)

ggtime90 (2463298) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425960)

It hurts to love someone and not be loved in return. But what is more painful is to love someone and never find the courage to let that person know how you feel

http://bwrequintn.com/ [bwrequintn.com]

Re:Make the vendors work for you (1)

Bucky24 (1943328) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425998)

What does unreturned love have to do with Nike shoes?

Re:Make the vendors work for you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426530)

I've been trying for the last half hour to come up with a witty response to that. But I got nothing.

Re:Make the vendors work for you (1)

bunbuntheminilop (935594) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425972)

Yes. Absolutely. You need to tell them what you want, and it's their job to prove to you that they are capable of providing it.

If the gear falls over, then you can say 'we're not paying for it, because it has to meet this specification before we do, and it obviously isn't', rather than 'we tested it ourselves, and it should be working'. You want to reduce the risk that this project isn't going to meet expectations.

Re:Make the vendors work for you (2)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426186)

Sounds like a Texas Faraday Cage Death Match.

Re:Make the vendors work for you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37427706)

Sounds like a Texas Faraday Cage Death Match.

droll. for real. wish i could mod up.

Re:Make the vendors work for you (1)

markjx (700808) | more than 3 years ago | (#37428016)

I second this. I've recently done enterprise purchases of IPS gear. I was very upfront with the vendors. I told them they had to show me how their device performed conducting tasks XXX, YYY, and ZZZ. I told them they could come to my lab and do the tests there, or they could bring me to their lab. I wanted each vendor to have the highest chance of success. In every case, they brought me to their labs.
In hindsight, make them do it at your place. :)
I don't envy you. Simulating a bunch of wireless clients sounds like you'd need some Spirent gear. (Very cool stuff, btw. We just got some)
MJ

Cisco... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425682)

I run a couple of Cisco WLCs with about 15 LWAP APs spread across them and in my experience, each AP doesn't really handle any more clients than a good consumer grade access point. Once you get about 18-20 clients on an AP, performance drops to suckage. I tried to arrange the physical locations of the APs to try to keep about a 12:1 ratio of laptops to APs, but we're got one classroom with 24 seats and two identical APs at opposite sides of the room, and for some odd reason they never seem to automatically load balance all that well. I'll often see 18 clients lock onto one AP and only 6 on the other in the classroom and the user complaints come pouring in. I've come to the main conclusion that trying to use WiFi as a primary network connection is basically a big farce.

Re:Cisco... (0)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425764)

There's no "load balancing" at all built into wi-fi. Your laptop will latch on to the first system in its list, if it can. Even if the construction of the list is fully randomized every time the laptop is told to find an AP, the number that find the same AP first is also a random number, and can vary from 0 to All. And if the SSID broadcast from them isn't coordinated to split the interval between broadcasts equally, then one of them is more likely to be in the top of the list every time, because it comes around the merry-go-round in front of the other one every time.

You'd have to set up the laptops with one SSID or the other in order to ensure balance.

Re:Cisco... (5, Informative)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425794)

Cisco's WLC/LWAPs do load balancing among access points.
See here [perihel.at]

Re:Cisco... (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425868)

Virtually all "enterprise" offerings do things(typically by having all the APs reporting back to a central controller [$$$ incidentally] and tune themselves in various ways) that don't violate the wifi spec enough to be incompatible with (most) boring old wifi devices; but which are beyond the scope of the standard.

Load balancing, automatic power level adjustment to avoid excessive overlaps or voids, triangulation of clients and nearby access points, and various other stuff that can be quite handy; but may or may not require exciting license add-ons for.

Re:Cisco... (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425932)

Man, if I could have one that does adaptive beam-shaping...

Re:Cisco... (2)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425778)

We run Cisco WLC and LWAPs as well. Do you have your LWAPs on different ports at the WLC side? That helps. Also different VLANs for different networks and SSIDs is important to keep the traffic down per.

Check my pants (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425688)

I got your bake-off test plan in my pants. I'll also pee in your butt.

wireless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425702)

try Meru Networks we use those for 1400 users... good luck

My company makes some wifi testing gear. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425728)

We have a box that can emulate up to 128 stations, including wpa, wpa2, etc. It can do
DHCP or static IPs and generate Ethernet, udp, tcp, http, and other higher level protocols,
including IPv6. Multiple systems can be clustered together for additional throughput and
radios. Each system can run on only one channel at once, but can talk to multiple APs
on that channel.

One of our systems can saturate any of the consumer grade APs we have, and some folks have
used it to stress very big systems (conference centers, etc).

Runs on Linux of course!

http://www.candelatech.com/ct520-128_product.php

Thanks,
Ben Greear

Re:My company makes some wifi testing gear. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425888)

And it looks like you share back to the community on top of that! Amazing! If this was facebook you'd have a Like

Re:My company makes some wifi testing gear. (1)

Richard_13 (1802270) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426124)

Thank you Ben. I'll ask our test team to contact your company for a quote.

Re:My company makes some wifi testing gear. (1)

adri (173121) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426670)

.. I should really get me one of these for FreeBSD 11n testing. :)

Re:My company makes some wifi testing gear. (2)

NevarMore (248971) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426778)

But how do we know that your testing gear is the best. Maybe we should have a "bake-off" between you and another test gear vendor...

are you the cluster guy? (1)

rta (559125) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425732)

Unless you're going to deploy like 100 APs or more i an skeptical that the vendors will work with you for such an effort.

Actually doing this correctly is going to be hard and expensive. Anyway, i'd read up on smalnetbuilder's methods and just run, say 10 or 20 concurrent client machines o a 3 or 4 AP set-up. make some of those clients mobile and walk around the space to see that hand-offs happen ok.

graph it all and look for major priods of drop-out etc. Again, though, unless you're doing a massive deployment or this is mission critical more than normal office lan this is not likely to be a cost effective exercise. I've previously had a good experience with Cisco APs

Re:are you the cluster guy? (2)

multimediavt (965608) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426986)

Lmao..he said he needs to test a big deployment with non-consumer grade gear. Your approach outlines the least of his worries.

What is the building(s) architecture, power and existing cable plant like? (concrete and steel, stick; adequate/sub adequate/surplus power; CAT-3, CAT-5, CAT-5e, CAT-6, fiber, thin-net, coaxial) Access points need power and users need to be able to connect to something worth connecting to wirelessly

How is he doing authentication? (802.1x with cert?, challenge response?)

Is it against a central directory server? (what is the topology like to it and how well is it connected, as well as AD, NIS, LDAP?)

What is the acceptable bandwidth minimum per connection? (determines number of APs based on user environment, I.e., municipal-commercial open v. Education v. Corporate v. Government v. Medicine; beyond architectural and interference environments)

What's my budget and timeframe for deployment? (vendors will want to know this to not only help you meet your needs, but potentially offer access to unannounced products should the size, needs and timeframe line up with PR possibilities and $,$$$,$$$ you intend to spend)

As far as benchmarking (I refuse to use that other bs term the OP proposes), do the math for your needs, find the vendors that advertise specs that meet those needs and then call reps for 30-day demo units. Test the specs yourself, read reviews, talk to other big installations with the gear, then buy an initial number of APs and test a small deployment as a pilot before committing to a larger project with the vendor(s))

Lather, rinse, repeat. Your mileage may vary.

NEXT!

what is your definition of "Enterprise" ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425734)

They are all going to do the same - which will exceed by a factor of 5 or 10 how many you will get in the normal course of a day.
The management tools are what you should be looking at.
Are you talking about 50 APs or 500 or 2000 ?

I'll tell you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425742)

if someone tells me what the FUCK bake-off is

Re:I'll tell you (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426068)

"The Pillsbury Bake-Off is a cooking contest, first run by Pillsbury Company from 1949 to 1976 as an annual contest. Since then, the contest has been held biennially."

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Pillsbury_Bake-Off [wikimedia.org]

Re:I'll tell you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426282)

"A competitition who can smoke the most chronic without going down for the count.

Dude, I smoked that dude under the table in that bake off. His eyes were rolled in the bck of his head by the time I sparked that last blunt."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bake+off [urbandictionary.com]

Can I has? (1, Funny)

ttong (2459466) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425772)

I will gladly accept all cookies created in the process.

Radio power (1)

bassman998 (922503) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425816)

If you're running a bake-off with access points, you're probably running just a bit too much power into the radios.

On-topic, I do like my redundant-controller, centrally-managed 160+ AP Aruba system.

Re:Radio power (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426424)

I also love my Aruba system, we have a single controller and 45 APs but are one of the most dense network deployments Aruba has done.

No consumer or no small biz? (1)

sys_mast (452486) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425852)

Im not sure what you mean by no consumer stuff.but netgear has started offering small biz gear.including wifi setups supporting up to 150 APs. So not sure how big you thing big is, but they are one of the few mid size deployment shops. While my prior opinion of netgear was low they seem to be trying to break into the enterprise markets. Of course if you need mor APs than that, they are still too small.

VeriWave in Portland (2)

viking80 (697716) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425862)

The (not so big) secret is that most WiFi AP rolls over with 8 or so clients. Only a few manufacturers themselves test their products beyond that, and those work all the way to over 100.
The company selling the test equipment you need is called http://veriwave.com./ [veriwave.com.] You can buy the equipment from them and test all the vendors, or even better, just ask them.

They do of course know, since that is how they test their own test equipment. Problem is that they can/will not tell you because then 1. you would not need to buy their product, and 2. AP mfg would fix their products, and Veriwave would not have a market for their products.

Maybe just do some social hacking to get it out of them.

Re:VeriWave in Portland (2, Informative)

postbigbang (761081) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425968)

There have been large tests, and it can be done by using Linux boxen that allow one to change out the raw socket to emulate numerous concurrent IP/MAC address pairs concurrently.

Then you decide what kind of duty cycle of transactions will be typical. All surfers checking Facebook? Or are their apps with sockets?

The biggest part of this is the backhaul; what's behind the AP in terms of next hop to a thick layer 2/3 switch/router. How skilled is the person that programmed it?

Are you going to use bi-freq N? If so, many possibilities open up, because you've now got a bunch of fresh 5Ghz channels, and the AP can handle more concurrence. Do you need to preserve session? Xirrus can handle a bunch, but you MUST have sufficient backhaul, or backhaul is a bottleneck for any AP vendor, including XIrrus.

What apps? https pageloads? sftps in a script? What's the profile of your proposed activity? What's the density of radios per proposed diameter?

You ask a lot of questions, but they open up more questions, then more. My recommendation: go with dual-bands that can have concurrent dual band conversations, use a fat backhaul, and encourage users to do the upper-band N by giving them a script, hive, whatever, so that they go upstairs where there's much more room rather than fight for 1, 6, and 11.

Re:VeriWave in Portland (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37427780)

Not quite sure what environments you are in. I have many prod APs ( 1130s) with 10, 20 clients associated to them.

Ubiquiti www.ubnt.com (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425864)

Include ubiquiti as a hardware vendor.

Seriously good stuff, and way cheap.

If your needs aren't one of the top 5% situations, you can use their gear and save 50-75% over other vendors.

Look at Unifi - it's still not quite there yet on the software side - but what is there is really very good, even for enterprise use.

The only other stuff I'd consider would be something like Ruckus for really high end - totally deterministic, high client usage and density.

Good luck.

-Greg

Aruba Rocks (1)

Redlazer (786403) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425874)

In my experience, the more expensive Aruba AP's perform closest to their manufacturer's claims.

They may not be selling the cheap one anymore, which would be good, because it was vastly inadequate for any real N-style usage.

Re:Aruba Rocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426256)

I have to agree. For a large network Aruba rocks from an admin point of view. And with the airmagnet pluggins, intrusion detection, etc, its pretty good on features.

Don't forget about Juniper/Trapeze (1)

lanner (107308) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425926)

Don't forget about Juniper's new wireless solutions, from their Trapeze acquisition.

I've heard a lot of good things about Aruba and Xirrus.

Having actually done Cisco wireless support and new deployments, I would highly recommend against Cisco. They call it a "Cisco caveat" for a reason. Sure that feature works... you know... under the right conditions which will never be met.

don't forget IPv6 capability (2)

Nivag064 (904744) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425940)

I looked at equipment recently for wireless using the 'n' protocl - but noticed no mention of IPv\6.

No point of gertting new communications equipment, if it cannot be suicessfully usec with IPv6!

So make IPv6 part of the requirments.

Re:don't forget IPv6 capability (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426126)

Hint: don't use the access point he's using, it can lead to strange character corruption.

Re:don't forget IPv6 capability (1)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426320)

You insensitive clod! His local wireless connection works fine, but he's posting from Mars! ;-)

Re:don't forget IPv6 capability (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 3 years ago | (#37427564)

I completely support this - I want to see where each one is w/ IPv6 support. If something can't support IPv6 both in & out, it's worthless. Has to be part of the requirements.

One advantage of supporting IPv6 is that router vendors can then have a range of n routers supporting IPv6 for different ends of the market - @ one end for the home user, just 1 SSID, and @ the other end, support up to 4 SSIDs if possible (beyond that, I'm thinking they'd have to go wired to avoid too much congestion here). In other words, enables market segmentation as an advantage for adding v6 support.

Been there done that... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425946)

Here are the results:
Vendors were tested with 30 then 60 wireless clients and 1 then 2 access points. So, 1 AP with 30 clients, 1 AP with 60 clients, 2 APs with 30 clients and 2 APs with 60 clients.

1: Cisco - Somewhat surprising. Great client density/bandwidth. Good load balancing between APs. Good management interface.
2: Trapeze (now Juniper) - Great client density/bandwidth (just a little slower (read less bandwidth to client, and just slightly less) than Cisco). Good load balancing between APs. Buy the extra Ringmaster management software.
3: Aruba - Significantly slower than Cisco and Trapeze. Good load balancing between APs. Good management interface.
4: Meru - Significantly slower than Cisco, Trapeze and Aruba. They did not have a network engineer available for the test to be present and we were unable to schedule another test before our purchase window closed.

We were going to test Xirrus but the rep we were working with left the company I believe in the middle of scheduling. We looked at Ruckus but were unable to schedule them.

These tests were performed in the spring of 2010. So products may have changed somewhat. You should be able to get demo hardware from any decent rep. We ultimately went with Trapeze after we put everything out to bid. Before that I was sure we were going to get Cisco gear but Cisco came in at twice the cost as Trapeze. We are deploying 128 APs without any issues. Client roaming and bandwidth are great (our primary requirements). All in all no complaints. Certainly liked the price point. Hope that helps!

Something to consider: (4, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#37425976)

In my somewhat limited(but rather painful) experience with attempting to use wifi as a serious connection, one of the issues that cropped up a lot was less with throughput, or with number of clients; but with client software behavior in the face of a glitch.

Dicking around at home and the wifi cuts out for a second? Reload the webpage and quit your whining.

Running your basic "enterprise" client configuration(documents directory is actually on a fileserver, authentication through AD, etc, etc.) and the wifi cuts out? Be prepared for frustratingly erratic appearances of apparently disappearing documents, authentication fails, not automatically reconnecting to the fileserver, Finder just twiddling its thumbs and thinking about infinity until that server either times out or comes back, etc, etc.

Even before any APs show up, you can start identifying the likely areas of sheer pain by using netem, switch jiggery-pokery, or just a $20 consumer AP and flicking your laptop's RF power switch: If your environment has client applications that don't play nicely if the network goes all to suck for a second or two from time to time, wifi deployment is going to be Fun.

Honestly, for most applications where wifi isn't a totally terrible idea(ie. heavily throughput dependent stuff), that would be the big focus of my testing(along with how useful the management tools and interfaces are). High throughput is far less valuable than stable connections.

My suggestion (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425986)

Stop saying 'bake-off'. It makes you sound like a tool.

HTH

You should consider Meru (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37425988)

We had Cisco--their performance was less than desirable. Switched to Meru and all of our problems were solved. Went so well our entire university rolled them out. 10,000+ students, 1,000+ faculty/staff. Not sure about 100 connections per access point, but it sure is up there.

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USe a real life scenario (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426046)

Find out what Starbucks uses or any other free highly saturated provider uses for their kit.

only the ELA matters anyway (2)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426072)

The only thing that matters is the bean counters and any ELA you have with existing vendors. Cisco might be good, or it might be crap, but if you have a pimp contract with them and good support, they're getting the contract. Live with it.

dont know how big u are (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426084)

but i use ubiquiti products and they run nice... arounf 75 concurrent clients running inventory out of 3 AP on a big warehouse. most of ythe clients just upload a small txt file containing the items they were counting.
Also, a fee tech support guys browsing slashdot/facebook/espn while we wait for the inventory crew to finish..

again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426120)

This is possibly the worst place to ask this kind of question. The fact that your asking it here, makes me wonder how you got your job.

proven bake off procedures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426158)

here you go:

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Appetizers and snacks to serve at casual gatherings with family and friends or for holiday entertaining. For example, bite size appetizers, tartlets, pinwheels, puffs, bruschetta or focaccia.

Dinner Made Easy
Easy to prepare main dishes that will delight your family. For example, pizzas, calzones, sandwiches, foldovers, casseroles, chilies, soups or savory pies.

Sweet Treats
Quick and easy treats for anytime celebrations. For example, cookies, pies, tarts, brownies or bars.

PRIZE STRUCTURE
One (1) Grand Prize Recipe Winner receives $1,000,000 and winner chooses $10,000 in GE kitchen appliances. Combined retail value of Grand Prize is approximately $1,010,000.

Three (3) Recipe Category Winners each receive $5,000 and winner chooses $3,000 in GE kitchen appliances. Combined retail value of each Category Prize is approximately $8,000.

Other Awards:

One (1) GE Imagination At Work Award (retail value is approximately $5,000)

One (1) Jif® Peanut Butter Award ($5,000)

One (1) Crisco is Cooking Award ($5,000)

One (1) Eagle Brand® Signature Recipe Award ($5,000)

Grand Prize Winner
At the Contest Finals, the judging panel will award one recipe winner for each Recipe Category. One of these overall Recipe Category Winners will be judged the $1 Million Grand Prize Winner. The $1 Million Grand Prize will be awarded as an annuity payable in installments of $50,000 each year for 20 consecutive years, no interest, with the first payment payable on or about May 1, 2012. Grand Prize Winner will also choose $10,000 in GE kitchen appliances. Combined retail value of Grand Prize is approximately $1,010,000.

Recipe Category Winners
The three remaining Recipe Category Winners will each receive $5,000 and will also choose $3,000 in GE kitchen appliances. Combined retail value of each Category Prize is approximately $8,000.

GE Imagination At Work Award
The judging panel will award the GE Imagination At Work Award to the finalist whose recipe the panel deems the most innovative. The GE Imagination At Work Award will be awarded to a finalist who has not won any other Prize or Award. The GE Imagination At Work Award Winner will choose $5,000 in GE kitchen appliances. Retail value of the GE Imagination At Work Award is approximately $5,000.

Jif® Peanut Butter Award
The judging panel will award the Jif® Peanut Butter Award to a finalist who is recognized as having the best recipe using at least ¼ cup of Jif® Peanut Butter. The Jif® Peanut Butter Award will be awarded to a finalist who has not won any other Prize or Award. The Jif® Peanut Butter Award Winner will receive $5,000. In the event that no qualifying recipes are selected as finalists, the prize will not be awarded.

Crisco is Cooking Award
The judging panel will award the Crisco is Cooking Award to a finalist who is recognized as having the best recipe using at least one (1) tablespoon of Crisco® Cooking Oil. The Crisco is Cooking Award will be awarded to a finalist who has not won any other Prize or Award. The Crisco is Cooking Award Winner will receive $5,000. In the event that no qualifying recipes are selected as finalists, the prize will not be awarded.

Eagle Brand® Signature Recipe Award
The judging panel will award the Eagle Brand® Signature Recipe Award to a finalist who is recognized as having the best recipe using at least 1 can (14 oz) of Eagle Brand® Sweetened Condensed Milk . The Eagle Brand® Signature Recipe Award will be awarded to a finalist who has not won any other Prize or Award. The Eagle Brand® Signature Recipe Award Winner will receive $5,000. In the event that no qualifying recipes are selected as finalists, the prize will not be awarded.

All contest prizes are not transferable or redeemable for cash, except at the sole discretion of General Mills. Each finalist is eligible to win one Prize or Award in addition to the finalist package. All taxes and other expenses, if any, are the sole responsibility of the winners. All appliance prizes listed in the above prize descriptions will be delivered to winner’s home address. Winner will be responsible for all appliance installation expenses. Any and all warranties and/or guarantees on a prize (if any) are subject to the manufacturer’s terms only, and winner agrees to look solely to such manufacturer for any such warranty and/or guarantee. This contest is void where prohibited or otherwise regulated. All federal, state and local laws apply.

WHO CAN ENTER?

You are eligible if you are 18 years of age or older as of January 6, 2011, and are a legal United States resident residing in one of the 50 United States or the District of Columbia at the time of the Contest Finals. Entrants must also be registered members of pillsbury.com.

You are not eligible to enter and will be disqualified if:

        * You are a food professional, such as a chef, food writer, food home economist, food educator, or someone who creates recipes for pay

        * You are a paid food blogger

        * You graduated from a culinary school/program or are enrolled in a culinary school/program as of January 6, 2011.

        * You, your spouse, your parent or your child (all regardless of present place of residence) or anyone currently living in your household has been a finalist in three or more Bake-Off® Contests, or has previously been a Bake-Off® Grand Prize Winner

        * You are an employee of General Mills, General Electric Company, The J.M. Smucker Company, Land O’ Lakes, Inc., John B. Sanfilippo & Son, Inc./Fisher® Nuts, The Hershey Company, McCormick & Company, Inc., Don Jagoda Associates Inc., Peabody Orlando Hotel, or any other sponsors of the Contest or any of their respective parents, subsidiaries and affiliated companies, or any promotion, advertising, judging or public relations company doing business with any of the above, or any of their respective parents, subsidiaries and affiliated companies, or a member of the immediate family (parent, children, siblings, spouse, regardless of where they live) or live in the same household of such employees (whether related or not).

        *

HOW DO I ENTER?

Participants entered original recipes that used two or more different eligible products. The varieties and sizes listed below are the only eligible products. They used at least 1 ingredient from List A and a second ingredient from either List A or List B in at least the quantity specified below:

List A:

Pillsbury® Grands!® Flaky Layers or Homestyle Refrigerated Biscuits (1 can)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Flaky Layers Buttermilk Refrigerated Biscuits 16.3 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Flaky Layers Butter Tastin'® Refrigerated Biscuits 16.3 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Flaky Layers Original Refrigerated Biscuits 16.3 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Flaky Layers Honey Butter Refrigerated Biscuits 16.3 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Homestyle Butter Tastin'® Refrigerated Biscuits 16.3 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Homestyle Butter Tastin'® Refrigerated Biscuits 10.2 oz (5 ct)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Homestyle Buttermilk Refrigerated Biscuits 16.3 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Homestyle Buttermilk Refrigerated Biscuits 10.2 oz (5 ct)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Homestyle Southern Style Refrigerated Biscuits 16.3 oz (8 ct)

Pillsbury® Grands!® Jr. Golden Layers® Refrigerated Biscuits (1 can)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Jr. Golden Layers® Butter Tastin'® Refrigerated Biscuits 12 oz (10 ct)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Jr. Golden Layers® Buttermilk Refrigerated Biscuits 12 oz (10 ct)

Pillsbury® Grands!® or Refrigerated Cinnamon Rolls with Icing (1 can)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Refrigerated Cinnamon Rolls with Icing 17.5 oz (5 ct)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Refrigerated Cinnamon Rolls with Cream Cheese Icing 17.5 oz (5 ct)
Pillsbury® Grands!® Flaky Supreme Refrigerated Cinnamon Rolls with Icing 17.5 oz (5 ct)
Pillsbury® Refrigerated Cinnamon Rolls with Icing 12.4 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Refrigerated Cinnamon Rolls with Cream Cheese Icing 12.4 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Refrigerated Orange Flavor Sweet Rolls with Icing 13.9 oz (8 ct)

Pillsbury® Refrigerated Crescent Dinner Rolls (1 can)
Pillsbury® Refrigerated Crescent Dinner Rolls 8 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Refrigerated Reduced Fat Crescent Dinner Rolls 8 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Butter Flake Refrigerated Crescent Dinner Rolls 8 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Big & Buttery Refrigerated Crescent Dinner Rolls 12 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Big & Flaky Refrigerated Crescent Dinner Rolls 12 oz (8 ct)
Pillsbury® Crescent Recipe Creations® Refrigerated Flaky Dough Sheet 8 oz
Pillsbury® Place ‘n Bake® Refrigerated Crescent Rounds 8 oz (8 ct)

Pillsbury® Refrigerated Pizza Crust (1 can)
Pillsbury® Refrigerated Classic Pizza Crust 13.8 oz
Pillsbury® Refrigerated Thin Pizza Crust 11 oz

Pillsbury® Refrigerated Breadsticks (1 can)
Pillsbury® Refrigerated Original Breadsticks 11 oz (12 ct)

Pillsbury® Refrigerated Crusty French Loaf (1 can) 11 oz

Pillsbury® Refrigerated Pie Crust (at least 1 crust) 14.1 oz box

Pillsbury® Refrigerated Cookie Dough (1 package)
Pillsbury® Refrigerated Chocolate Flavored Chip Cookie Dough 16.5 oz roll
Pillsbury® Refrigerated Peanut Butter Cookie Dough 16.5 oz roll
Pillsbury® Refrigerated Sugar Cookie Dough 16.5 oz roll
Pillsbury® Big Deluxe Refrigerated Chocolate Chip Cookies 16 oz (12 ct)
Pillsbury® Big Deluxe Refrigerated Oatmeal Raisin Cookies 16 oz (12 ct)
Pillsbury® Ready to Bake Refrigerated Chocolate Chip Cookies 16 oz (24 ct)
Pillsbury® Ready to Bake Refrigerated Chocolate Chunk Cookies 16 oz (24 ct)
Pillsbury® Ready to Bake Refrigerated Oatmeal Chocolate Chip Cookies 16 oz (24 ct)
Pillsbury® Ready to Bake Refrigerated Sugar Cookies 16 oz (24 ct)

Pillsbury® Brownie Mix (1 box)
Pillsbury® Cheesecake Swirl Premium Brownie Mix (15.5 oz)
Pillsbury® Chocolate Chunk Premium Brownie Mix (15.5 oz)
Pillsbury® Milk Chocolate Brownie Mix (19.5 oz)
Pillsbury® Chocolate Fudge Brownie Mix (19.5 oz)
Pillsbury® Chocolate Walnut Premium Brownie Mix (13.5 oz)
Pillsbury® Chocolate Extreme Premium Brownie Mix (15.9 oz)
Pillsbury® Funfetti® Chocolate Fudge Brownie Mix (19.4 oz)

Pillsbury BEST® Flour (at least 1 cup)
Pillsbury BEST® All Purpose Flour
Pillsbury BEST® Unbleached Flour

List B:

Progresso® Broths (at least 1/2 cup), Soups (1 can), Bread Crumbs (at least 2 tablespoons)

Progresso® Broths (at least 1/2 cup)
Progresso® Beef Broth
Progresso® Chicken Broth
Progresso® Reduced Sodium Chicken Broth

Progresso® Soups Traditional (1 can)
Progresso® Traditional Chicken and Wild Rice Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Traditional Chicken Noodle Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Traditional Chicken Rice and Vegetable Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Traditional Fat Free Chicken Noodle Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Traditional Hearty Chicken Rotini Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Traditional New England Clam Chowder Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Vegetable Classics Split Pea with Ham Soup 19 oz

Progresso® Soups Vegetable Classics (1 can)
Progresso® Vegetable Classics Creamy Mushroom Soup 18 oz
Progresso® Vegetable Classics French Onion Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Vegetable Classics Hearty Tomato Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Vegetable Classics Lentil Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Vegetable Classics Minestrone Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Vegetable Classics Split Pea Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Vegetable Classics Tomato Basil Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Vegetable Classics Vegetable Soup 19 oz

Progresso® Soups Light (1 can)
Progresso® Light Beef Pot Roast Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Light Chicken & Dumpling Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Light Chicken Noodle Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Light Chicken Vegetable Rotini Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Light Italian Style Meatball Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Light Italian Style Vegetable Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Light New England Clam Chowder Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Light Santa Fe Style Chicken Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Light Savory Vegetable Barley Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Light Southwest Style Vegetable Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Light Vegetable and Noodle Soup 18.5 oz

Progresso® Soups Reduced Sodium (1 can)
Progresso® Reduced Sodium Chicken and Wild Rice Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Reduced Sodium Chicken Noodle Soup 18.5 oz

Progresso® Soups Rich & Hearty (1 can)
Progresso® Rich & Hearty Beef Pot Roast and Country Vegetables Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Rich & Hearty Chicken & Homestyle Noodles Soup 19 oz
Progresso® Rich & Hearty Chicken Corn Chowder Soup 18.5 oz
Progresso® Rich & Hearty New England Clam Chowder Soup 18.5 oz

Progresso® Soups World Recipes (1 can)
Progresso® World Recipes Chicken Tortilla Soup 18.5 oz

Progresso® Soups High Fiber (1 can)
Progresso® High Fiber Chicken Tuscany Soup 19 oz
Progresso® High Fiber Homestyle Minestrone Soup 19 oz

Progresso® Bread Crumbs (at least 2 tablespoons)
Progresso® Bread Crumbs
Progresso® Italian Style Bread Crumbs
Progresso® Panko Bread Crumbs
Progresso® Italian Style Panko Bread Crumbs

Muir Glen® Tomatoes (1 can), Tomato Sauces & Puree (at least 1/4 cup), Tomato Paste (at least 2 tablespoons), Pizza Sauce (at least 1/4 cup)

Muir Glen® Canned Tomatoes (1 can)
Muir Glen® Diced Tomatoes 14.5 oz
Muir Glen® Diced Tomatoes 28 oz
Muir Glen® Diced Tomatoes - No Salt Added 14.5 oz
Muir Glen® Diced Tomatoes with Basil & Garlic 14.5 oz
Muir Glen® Diced Tomatoes with Garlic & Onion 14.5 oz
Muir Glen® Diced Tomatoes with Italian Herbs 14.5 oz
Muir Glen® Diced Fire Roasted Tomatoes 14.5 oz
Muir Glen® Diced Fire Roasted Tomatoes 28 oz
Muir Glen® Diced Fire Roasted Tomatoes - No Salt Added 14.5 oz
Muir Glen® Diced Fire Roasted Tomatoes with Green Chili 14.5 oz
Muir Glen® Crushed Fire Roasted Tomatoes 14.5 oz
Muir Glen® Crushed Fire Roasted Tomatoes 28 oz
Muir Glen® Whole Fire Roasted Tomatoes 28 oz
Muir Glen® Whole Peeled Plum Tomatoes 28 oz
Muir Glen® Whole Peeled Tomatoes 14.5 oz
Muir Glen® Whole Peeled Tomatoes 28 oz
Muir Glen® Whole Peeled Tomatoes with Basil 28 oz
Muir Glen® Crushed Tomatoes with Basil 28 oz
Muir Glen® Ground Peeled Tomatoes 28 oz
Muir Glen® Stewed Tomatoes 14.5 oz

Muir Glen® Tomato Sauces & Puree (at least 1/4 cup)
Muir Glen® Tomato Sauce 8 oz
Muir Glen® Tomato Sauce 15 oz
Muir Glen® Tomato Sauce - No Added Salt 15 oz
Muir Glen® Chunky Tomato Sauce 28 oz
Muir Glen® Tomato Puree 28 oz

Muir Glen® Tomato Paste (at least 2 tablespoons)
Muir Glen® Tomato Paste 6 oz

Muir Glen® Pizza Sauce (at least 1/4 cup)
Muir Glen® Pizza Sauce 15 oz

Jif® Peanut Butter (at least 1/4 cup)
Jif® Creamy Peanut Butter
Jif® Extra Crunchy Peanut Butter
Simply Jif® Peanut Butter
Jif® Creamy Reduced Fat Peanut Butter Spread
Jif® Crunchy Reduced Fat Peanut Butter Spread
Jif® Natural Creamy Peanut Butter Spread
Jif® Omega-3 Creamy Peanut Butter

Smucker's® Jams, Jellies, Preserves and Fruit Spreads (at least 1/4 cup)

Jams (at least 1/4 cup)
Smucker's® Blackberry Jam
Smucker's® Concord Grape Jam
Smucker's® Seedless Blackberry Jam
Smucker's® Seedless Black Raspberry Jam
Smucker's® Seedless Red Raspberry Jam
Smucker's® Seedless Strawberry Jam

Jelly (at least 1/4 cup)
Smucker's® Concord Grape Jelly
Smucker's® Strawberry Jelly
Smucker's® Low Sugar Reduced Sugar Concord Grape Jelly
Smucker's® Squeeze Grape Jelly

Preserves (at least 1/4 cup)
Smucker's® Apricot Preserves
Smucker's® Blueberry Preserves
Smucker's® Cherry Preserves
Smucker's® Peach Preserves
Smucker's® Red Raspberry Preserves
Smucker's® Strawberry Preserves
Smucker's® Sweet Orange Marmalade
Smucker's® Low Sugar Reduced Sugar Apricot Preserves
Smucker's® Low Sugar Reduced Sugar Red Raspberry Preserves
Smucker's® Low Sugar Reduced Sugar Strawberry Preserves
Smucker's® Low Sugar Sweet Orange Marmalade

Fruit Spreads (at least 1/4 cup)
Smucker's® Squeeze Strawberry Fruit Spread
Smucker's® Simply Fruit® Strawberry Spreadable Fruit
Smucker's® Simply Fruit® Seedless Blackberry Spreadable Fruit
Smucker's® Simply Fruit® Apricot Spreadable Fruit

Crisco® Cooking Oil (at least 1 tablespoon)
Crisco® Pure Vegetable Oil
Crisco® Pure Canola Oil
Crisco® Pure Corn Oil
Crisco® 100% Extra Virgin Olive Oil
Crisco® Light Olive Oil
Crisco® Pure Olive Oil

Eagle Brand® Sweetened Condensed Milk (1-14 oz can)
Eagle Brand® Sweetened Condensed Milk
Eagle Brand® Fat Free Sweetened Condensed Milk

LAND O LAKES® Eggs (at least 1 egg)
LAND O LAKES® Large Brown Natural eggs
LAND O LAKES® Large Brown Organic eggs
LAND O LAKES® Large Brown Cage-Free eggs
LAND O LAKES® Large White Omega-3 eggs

LAND O LAKES® Stick Butter (at least 2 tablespoons)
LAND O LAKES® Salted Butter
LAND O LAKES® Unsalted Butter

Hershey®'s Cocoa (at least 1/4 cup), Baking Chips or Bits (at least 1/2 cup), Baking Chocolate (at least 2 oz), Syrup (at least 1/4 cup)

Hershey®'s Cocoa (at least 1/4 cup)
HERSHEY®’S Cocoa
HERSHEY®’S SPECIAL DARK® Cocoa

Hershey®'s Baking Chips or Bits (at least 1/2 cup)
HERSHEY®’S Milk Chocolate Chips
HERSHEY®’S Semi-Sweet Chocolate Chips
HERSHEY®’S Mini Chips Semi-Sweet Chocolate Chips
HERSHEY®’S MINI KISSES® Milk Chocolates
HERSHEY®’S Premier White Chips
HERSHEY®’S SPECIAL DARK® Mildly Sweet Chocolate Chips
HERSHEY®’S Cinnamon Chips
HERSHEY®’S Butterscotch Chips
HEATH® BITS'O BRICKLE® Toffee Bits
HEATH® Milk Chocolate Toffee Bits
REESE’S® Peanut Butter Chips

Hershey®'s Baking Chocolate (at least 2 oz)
HERSHEY®’S Semi-Sweet Baking Bar
HERSHEY®’S Premium Unsweetened Baking Bar

Hershey®'s Syrup (at least 1/4 cup)
HERSHEY®'S Chocolate Syrup
HERSHEY®'S Lite Syrup
HERSHEY®'S SPECIAL DARK Syrup
HERSHEY®'S Strawberry Syrup
HERSHEY®'S Caramel Syrup

Fisher® Nuts (at least 1/4 cup)
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Almonds Blanched Slivered
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Almonds Natural Sliced
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Almonds Whole
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Chopped Macadamias
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Raw Peanuts
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Pecan Chips
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Pecans Chopped
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Pecans Cookie Pieces
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Pecan Halves
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Black Walnuts
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Walnuts Chopped
Fisher® Chef’s Naturals® Walnut Halves and Pieces
Fisher® Mixed Nuts with Peanuts
Fisher® Deluxe Mixed Nuts
Fisher® Whole Cashews
Fisher® Cashews, Halves and Pieces
Fisher® Roasted and Salted Almonds
Fisher® Butter Toffee Peanuts
Fisher® Dry Roasted Peanuts
Fisher® Honey Roasted Peanuts
Fisher® Honey Roasted/Dry Roasted Peanuts
Fisher® Lightly Salted, Dry Roasted Peanuts
Fisher® Party Peanuts
Fisher® Spanish Peanuts
Fisher® Cinnamon Pecans
Fisher® Nut Topping
Fisher® Praline Pecans

McCormick® Extracts, Herbs & Spices (at least 1/4 teaspoon or 1 cinnamon stick)

McCormick® Extracts (at least 1/4 teaspoon)
McCormick® Pure Almond Extract
McCormick® Imitation Almond Extract
McCormick® Pure Anise Extract
McCormick® Imitation Coconut Extract
McCormick® Pure Lemon Extract
McCormick® Pure Orange Extract
McCormick® Pure Peppermint Extract
McCormick® Imitation Rum Extract
McCormick® Pure Vanilla Extract
McCormick® Imitation Vanilla Extract-Premium

McCormick® Herbs (at least 1/4 teaspoon)
McCormick® Bay Leaves
McCormick® Basil Leaves
McCormick® Cayenne Pepper
McCormick® Celery Salt
McCormick® Celery Seed
McCormick® Chili Powder
McCormick® Ground Cumin
McCormick® Curry Powder
McCormick® Dill Weed
McCormick® Fennel Seed
McCormick® Garlic, Minced
McCormick® Garlic Powder
McCormick® Garlic Salt
McCormick® Italian Seasoning
McCormick® Ground Mustard
McCormick® Onion Powder
McCormick® Onion Salt
McCormick® Oregano Leaves
McCormick® Poultry Seasoning
McCormick® Crushed Red Pepper
McCormick® Rosemary Leaves
McCormick® Ground Sage
McCormick® Ground Thyme
McCormick® Thyme Leaves
McCormick® Ground Turmeric

McCormick® Spices (at least 1/4 teaspoon or 1 cinnamon stick)
McCormick® Ground Allspice
McCormick® Whole Allspice
McCormick® Ground Cinnamon
McCormick® Cinnamon Stick
McCormick® Cinnamon Sugar
McCormick® Ground Cloves
McCormick® Whole Cloves
McCormick® Ground Ginger
McCormick® Ground Nutmeg
McCormick® Poppy Seed
McCormick® Pumpkin Pie Spice
McCormick® Sesame Seed
McCormick® Cream of Tartar

Fill in all information requested on the entry form completely and type your recipe, listing each recipe ingredient (including garnishes) with specific flavor, exact measurements or weights, equipment with exact dimensions or sizes and complete preparation instructions. All entries must be received by 11:59 a.m. (central time) on April 18, 2011. Each entry should be submitted only once. Use of automated processes and devices to submit electronic entries is not permitted. Contest Sponsors are not responsible for any changes or effects caused to the entrant's computer system as a result of submitting electronic entries.

Only entries submitted via the electronic entry form provided on the website above will be accepted. Entries submitted via any other method, including but not limited to U.S. Postal Service, facsimile or other express delivery services, will NOT be accepted. Contest Sponsors and their promotion agencies are not responsible for phone, network, electronic or computer hardware or software failure, or technical failures of any kind, lost or unavailable network connections, fraud, incomplete, garbled or delayed computer transmissions, whether caused by Contest Sponsors, entrants or by any of the equipment or programming associated with or utilized in the promotion or by any technical or human error which may occur in the processing of submissions which may damage a user’s system or limit a participant’s ability to participate in the promotion.

General Mills may prohibit any individual from participating in the contest or winning a prize if, in its sole discretion, it determines that said individual is attempting to undermine the legitimate operation of the contest by cheating, hacking, deception, or other unfair practices; violates the Official Rules; or acts in an unsportsmanlike or disruptive manner at any time during the Contest, or with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten or harass any other person. By submitting your recipe, you accept all contest rules and agree to be bound by the decisions of the judges, which will be final. You also agree that your recipe(s) becomes the sole property of General Mills, and General Mills reserves the right to edit, adapt, copyright, publish, transfer and use any or all of them, without compensation.

CAUTION -- ANY ATTEMPT BY AN ENTRANT TO DELIBERATELY DAMAGE THE WEBSITE OR UNDERMINE THE LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF THE CONTEST MAY BE IN VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAWS. SHOULD SUCH AN ATTEMPT BE MADE, SPONSOR RESERVES THE RIGHT TO SEEK REMEDIES AND DAMAGES (INCLUDING ATTORNEY’S FEES) FROM ANY SUCH ENTRANT TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW, INCLUDING CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.

HOW WILL RECIPES BE JUDGED?

All entries must meet the requirements of the Recipe Category entered. Recipes not meeting contest entry criteria will be disqualified. Entries must be the original recipe of the entrant. Initial judging will be done by an independent judging agency and food professionals for appropriate use of two or more different eligible products in addition to the criteria outlined below for the finalist recipes:

        * Taste
        * Appearance
        * Creativity
        * Consumer Appeal

Judges will disqualify previously published recipes, such as but not limited to those in cookbooks, in magazines, from food companies, on food blogs or recipe websites and winners in cooking contests, unless the recipe features changes considered significant by the judges. Finalists will be required to certify, on information or belief, that their recipes are their original creation and have not been published or publicized and have not won a cooking contest. Judges reserve the right to assign entries to the Recipe Category they deem appropriate. Final judging will be done by a panel of food experts. Decisions of the judges are final in all matters relating to this Contest.

HOW WILL FINALISTS BE SELECTED?

Judges will select 20 recipes to be placed online at www.bakeoff.com during the summer of 2011 in pairs for a period of two weeks for each pair. During each two-week period, consumers 18 years of age or older as of May 1, 2011 will be able to vote for their favorite of the two recipes. Consumers will be able to vote only once per each pair of recipes. The entrant from each of the ten pairs whose recipe receives the most votes will become a finalist. In the event that entrant is unable to compete, the other entrant from that pair will become a finalist. If that entrant is unable to compete, General Mills may choose to select an alternate(s) as provided below. If your recipe is one of the 20 recipes selected to compete online, you will be notified on a rolling basis between May and August of 2011 and prior to the two-week period during which your recipe will be online. Entrants whose recipes are selected to compete online but do not participate will not be eligible to be finalists.

Judges will select the remaining 90 recipes and the entrants whose recipes are selected by the Judges will become finalists. General Mills will begin notifying finalists on or about September 1, 2011. General Mills may also select alternates. Alternates will not be notified of their selection as alternates.

WHAT HAPPENS IF I WIN?

Selected finalists will be required to sign an affidavit of eligibility, a confidentiality agreement, and a liability release/assignment of rights and return within 48 hours of receipt of notification. General Mills will advise finalists of further Contest procedures and policies at this time, and all finalists agree to comply with such procedures. Finalists may be required to make themselves available for promotional appearances during the Contest Finals. Finalists may be required to travel to and attend additional promotional appearances at the direction of General Mills during the five days after the Contest Finals. General Mills may also request that the Grand Prize Winner make additional promotional appearances. Method of travel and accommodations for such appearances shall be chosen by General Mills and at its expense. Any finalist who does not comply with these requirements, cannot be easily located at the address or phone number provided, or who is unable to attend the Contest Finals or any subsequent promotional appearances required by General Mills will not be eligible for any prize and will not be allowed to compete. If a finalist becomes unable to compete for any reason, General Mills may attempt to replace that finalist with an alternate, provided that the alternate can comply with the conditions stated above. General Mills in its sole discretion may also choose not to replace any finalist(s). As a finalist, you will be invited to Orlando, FL, to participate in the Contest Finals where you must prepare your recipe yourself and submit it for final judging between 8:00 a.m. and 12:00 p.m. on March 26, 2012. Reasonable accommodations will be provided for substantiated disabilities at the sole discretion of General Mills. Except where prohibited by law, each finalist will be required to sign a release giving General Mills and its nominees full rights to use the finalist's name, likeness, image and voice for Bake-Off® Contest related advertising and publicity, including such usage on the Internet. General Mills will select and supply the ingredients and cooking equipment to be used during preliminary judging and at the Contest Finals. General Mills reserves the right to substitute comparable products at its discretion. Where possible, those items will be products of Sponsors. General Mills reserves the right to cancel this promotion at its sole discretion. Winners will be posted on the Internet at www.bakeoff.com.

All issues and disputes regarding any aspect of the Contest, including, but not limited to the construction, interpretation and enforceability of these official rules, shall be governed by the laws of the state of Minnesota, without regard to principles of conflicts of laws. All suits and claims shall be brought in a court of competent jurisdiction situated in Minneapolis MN. General Mills reserves the right in its sole discretion to substitute a prize of equal or greater value for any of the prizes stated above.

The 45th Pillsbury Bake-Off® Contest is sponsored by General Mills, One General Mills Blvd., Minneapolis, MN 55426; General Electric Company, Appliance Park, Louisville, KY 40225; Land O’ Lakes, Inc., 4001 Lexington Ave. N., Arden Hills, MN 55126; John B. Sanfilippo & Son, Inc., 1703 N. Randall Road, Elgin, IL 60123; The Hershey Company, 14 E. Chocolate Avenue, Hershey, PA 17033; McCormick & Company, Inc., 211 Schilling Circle, Hunt Valley, MD 21031; and The J.M. Smucker Company, One Strawberry Lane, Orrville, OH 44667.

Haven't done a good bake-off since college (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426188)

Don't forget to put a damp towel at the bottom of the door. You don't want any RA's harshing your buzz. Then, no one leaves until the whole bag is gone...

Ask the vendors about bufferbloat too (2)

rcpitt (711863) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426210)

One of the major effects of bufferbloat on wireless is reduced ability to usefully deal with lots of clients connecting to the same AP.

All the major vendors should be aware of what is going on at www.bufferbloat.net and have something in place to ensure that their products will reflect new updates soonest when things get fixed. This is an ongoing problem that crept up on the internet tech community and there is work in progress to deal with it but it will take time.

See (for example) Bufferbloat - Dark Buffers in the Internet, 1/20/2011 [bufferbloat.net]

Dont miss Motorola and Aerohive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426248)

Their APs are enterprise class and follow a new 'distributed' approach wherein you get better control over traffic as well as a number of features without the need for a local controller. Its the 'next generation' after the generation of thin-APs managed by controllers (Aruba, Trapeze models).

Also, when evaluating, max-clients should not be the only criteria, look for things like support for auto-rf (channel and power), support for voice (esp certifications from vendors like Spectralink, Vocera) , troubleshooting capabilities (packet capture, spectrum analysis), detailed statistics, rf-heat-maps, trending/reporting of longer term data, support for guest-access wlans.

How do you intend to do the benchmarking? In addition to just throughput tools (IXChariot, iperf) also do things like number of parallel voice calls, number of video streams in parallel etc. When testing throughput run both UDP and TCP. UDP will give you the best raw numbers, while TCP will give you more realistic data (& is less forgiving of the lossy nature of wireless so will typically drop back faster as packets are lost)

BTW when you have connectivity issues (which you almost surely will at some point) the vendor who can provide you with the best 'view' into the network is the one you should go for.

Don't forget about Meraki (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426264)

They probably belong in the list. It's at least worth checking them out. They'll give you some eval units at no charge, too.

What's your budget? (1)

nonsequitor (893813) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426336)

Plenty of companies out there make tools for testing this sort of thing. Spirent, Ixxia, and Agilent, to name a few all have layer 4-7 traffic generation appliance type products for stress testing.

http://www.spirent.com/Devices-and-Equipment/Base_station_testing.aspx [spirent.com]

Re:What's your budget? (1)

nonsequitor (893813) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426362)

Here's a more appropriate link http://www.spirent.com/Solutions-Directory/Avalanche.aspx [spirent.com]

Though I would certainly research their competitors products as well before making any purchases, but this is the type of equipment that ISPs and large banks might use to test their infrastructure.

Trapeze now Juniper (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426342)

I can say in our limited tests and real life use we continue to be impressed with Trapeze (now owned by Juniper).

test will rarely fit with real life, in our case Trapeze sent a sales engineer out and did a site survey asked us questions and gave us great advice... on how to move forward.

other comparisons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426378)

googled a little:

http://www.mobileindustryreview.com/2011/05/enterprise-wifi-best-practice-series-devin-akin-of-aerohive.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wi-fi-performance,2985.html

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

Re:other comparisons (1)

Catnaps (2044938) | more than 3 years ago | (#37427598)

Ding ding winrar. The Toms article is very very good.

802.11n (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426384)

Forget about 802.11n from "Aruba, Cisco, HP, Xirrus, Ruckus" and go with Mikrotik modification of 802.11n with timeslots. Job done cheap and much more effective! BTW I have read all answers so far and they look to me pretty childish and not much helpful. Strange for Slashdot :-/

Anyone else got the munchies? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426390)

I don't know if this thread is about baking or getting baked, but either way, i gots to get me something to eat.

enterprise (1)

confused one (671304) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426426)

Netgear makes enterprise grade equipment -- we have Netgear equipment all through our manufacturing facility and IT center. having said that... We used Xirrus wifi hwardware and it works quite well.

Re:enterprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37427576)

Business grade maybe. The blue box stuff is good at the price, but some of them fall over far too often for my liking. Not sure if I'd go as far as enterprise grade.

We use Ruckus at the school were I work, and the support requests are now pretty much limited to "Can I connect my iPhone to the wireless?". Before we were out nearly every lesson trying to convince the school's laptops to reconnect.

Another thing you need to test is the clients. It doesn't matter how good your wifi infrastructure is, if you have a dodgy wifi interface, or a crud device driver then you will still get problems. We've found this especially with older b/g-only cards.

Set some params. (1)

niftymitch (1625721) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426480)

What does enterprise size mean?

What class of construction is the
building? Straw, sticks, bricks... this wolf wants to know

Are regions RF isolated from each other
do you have multiple floors and multiple
buildings? Can RF pass between these
odds and ends.

First you need to wire the building and also decide if
your WiFi boxes will get power from the ethernet wire
links or from the wall.

Do you need secure access for all or is this install
wide open and plan to let VPN do the security.
i.e. guests will always want WiFi service.

Have you done any site research. If a neighbor already
has WiFi deployed and all the channels occupied you
may be the last fool in the pool. There are some
Android applications that I would use to see what is already
transmitting.

Windows and floors do you want to secure the inside
from outside listeners? And do you want to secure the
inside from external access.

Since all WiFi is tested to and operates to public standards
there is going to be little difference from vendor to vendor
at first glance. Placement and wired infrastructure will make
as big a difference as anything.

You are going to need wired links lots of them. Plan on
a robust wired infrastructure to start. The cell phone companies
often have less trouble on their last mile... than you might expect.

Will Cell phones have the ability to connect their WiFi links
to your network? If the company provides phones the answer
will be yes... Cell phones + laptops + iTouch three times the
load you might expect. Will you have to put Femto cells in
for executives?

You may have to screen areas with hardware cloth or some
RF limiting wall covering to keep areas from interfering with
each other....

Net nannie... do you have legal issue to audit and manage
both incoming and outgoing? Privacy issues that make shared
pass words a tangle.

Central management? Can one person walk around and
check them all? Backup...

News Flash (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426508)

"We intend to test the latest products from the major vendors, Aruba, Cisco, HP, Xirrus, Ruckus, etc.; not consumer products like Linksys, D-Link or Netgear."

Cisco - > Linksys

Wi-fi Testing and Benchmarking on Tom's (1)

Quantum_Infinity (2038086) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426648)

You can call in all the experts and engineers to figure this out but never underestimate the importance of common sense and understanding of basics concepts involved. A couple of articles on Tom's explain it well. One story has some testing and benchmarking. May not be exactly what you need but may go a long way in ensuring good wi-fi. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wi-fi-performance,2985.html [tomshardware.com] http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/571-wi-fi-beamforming-networking.html [tomshardware.com]

Re: Wi-fi Testing - MOD PARENT UP (1)

KingRobot (703860) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426702)

I was going to reference the same article from Tom's - they basically have already done what OP is asking for, using hardware including Cisco, Aruba, Meraki, Ruckus, Apple, and HP. The second and third pages "Hardware And Methodology, Explained" might especially be of interest.

Aruba (2)

slimjim8094 (941042) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426652)

We run a thousand or so Aruba 125s at school here, covering all 600 or so acres of campus. Those are probably overkill for you (at about $750 a pop), but AFAIK even the lowest-end ones have the same essential features.

Basically, the network architecture puts the whole wireless network on a separate segment, all the way back to the aggregation points. They're gigabit wired into the building routers, but placed on a separate VLAN all the way back to one of the three aggregation points. Each AP is assigned to a controller, and will fail over to a second one if needed. The controllers pass the traffic to the rest of the network.

The controller architecture means you can do some pretty interesting things. Particularly, it means new APs are trivial to install - stick them into the controller's DB and plug it in to an Ethernet cable (it's PoE); it'll go and find the controller and pull down the config and any upgrades to the software. It also allows IP roaming between APs, even if they're in different netblocks. I can walk from one end of campus to the other (7 city blocks) while keeping the same IP and getting all my traffic, through about 150 different APs - much like a cell network. You can also do spectrum analysis through their management console - I once saw them find a broken microwave from all the interference they were seeing across the 10 APs in range a la Dark Knight.

The APs we have will band-steer clients over to the 5GHz spectrum if possible, which can support a huge number of clients, but you need the density for it to make a big difference. If you do, though, you can easily get 30 people per AP, with a few doing massive downloads/uploads and no hiccups. They don't recommend more than that, and in any case it's difficult to fit people densely enough that you wouldn't need a new one for signal purposes.

No, I don't work for them. I don't even work for the Networking department. I just really like the toys - though I suspect I might feel differently if I had to make the purchase! Quality isn't cheap...

PWNED (1)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426750)

If you spoof a controller. One of the first lessons I've learned is to never use dynamically configured devices on a campus. There will always be a geek that will find a way to tell your equipment what the best route for traffic is.

Re:PWNED (1)

qwertphobia (825473) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426990)

Management traffic goes out-of-band, in part for this reason. You can't spoof a controller on our network. Active defense mechanisms mean you can't even spoof an access point. The clients you attempt to lure away will be sent disassociation messages.

We've done this bake off (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426806)

The result was Cisco but this was 3 years ago. The Aruba gear is poorly made and it took about 70% more APs for the same coverage. We used 900 Cisco APs as opposed to over 1500 Aruba. That being said we also like the Ruckus Gear which also feels flimsy compared to the Cisco 1042 APs but the beamflex technology is second to none especially if your trying to carry a voice or video signal.

Ubiquiti UniFI (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37426838)

Check out the Ubiquiti UniFI distributed wireless system, which uses a server-based controller. www.ubnt.com
Ceiling-mounted APs, MIMO-N 5Ghz, up to 4 SSIDs on separate VLANs, good feature set for corporate environments.

(satisfied Wireless ISP owner)

Meru Networks (1)

qwertphobia (825473) | more than 3 years ago | (#37426864)

Be sure to add them to the list. Their virtual cell technology is pretty slick, and works well for busy environments. Just add more access points to a busy area or for an event, and the controller will take care of balancing the clients between the radios. No, I don't work for them, but I am a happy customer. We have over 250 access points installed across our campus.

Re:Meru Networks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37427212)

Same goes for Juniper's Trapeze. We use it for several dozen WAN sites off of two central management devices and the only management involved is when we add new sites and APs. Everything else "just works". Encrypted secure SSIDs with certificate authentication side-by-side with open guest networks, site-specific SSIDs along with network-wide ones. The list goes on.

Thank you to all who replied with useful info... (1)

Richard_13 (1802270) | more than 3 years ago | (#37427198)

For those fixated on the term bake-off, you obviously have never worked for a networking vendor or a major IT shop, or you would understand what the term means. And some of you demonstrated a level of intelligence that has me picturing you entering "snow white and the seven dwarfs" when prompted for an eight character password.

Re:Thank you to all who replied with useful info.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37427614)

You must be awesome at parties.
If you go.
(Unlikely).

Just divide by ten... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37427304)

Actually, evaluation of networking equipment is easy. Just take the sale brochures and divide their performance numbers by ten.

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