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28-Way Radeon GPU Comparison Under Linux

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the in-case-you're-a-bit-compulsive dept.

AMD 85

An anonymous reader writes "Phoronix has conducted a 28-way Radeon graphics card comparison under Linux that illustrates the differences among the open-source and closed-source graphics drivers."

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85 comments

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First way (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37454950)

but not under Linux

first (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37454954)

post

Re:first (1)

JavaBear (9872) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455046)

*Anonymous Cowards* should not be able to post the first post. That way we might limit these idiotic posts.

Re:first (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37455392)

*Anonymous Cowards* should not be able to post the first post. That way we might limit these idiotic posts.

Or you can, y'know, just ignore the stupid-but-harmless thing, rather than demand a one-size-fits-all solution to your non-problem?

Posted as AC to prove a point

Re:first (1)

TheCRAIGGERS (909877) | more than 2 years ago | (#37457140)

*Anonymous Cowards* should not be able to post the first post. That way we might limit these idiotic posts.

Or you can, y'know, just ignore the stupid-but-harmless thing, rather than demand a one-size-fits-all solution to your non-problem?

Posted as AC to prove a point

Your point is rather invalid since your post is not the first. JavaBear's idea would only prevent the first post being created by an AC, not replies to that post.

Re:first (1)

Abstrackt (609015) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455500)

*Anonymous Cowards* should not be able to post the first post. That way we might limit these idiotic posts.

I have a better solution: no one should be able to post the first post!

Re:first (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37456130)

Let he/she who is without sin post the first post!

No one should be able to keep the first post (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456324)

Your modest proposal is unworkable. Let me make it a bit less satiric: No one should be able to keep the first post for a whole discussion. Randomize the order of the top-level posts that come in within the first few minutes of posting. This would also make another practice less effective: replying to the first post to make your own comment more visible.

Re:first (1)

Hylandr (813770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37457598)

Spoken like a true American...

- Dan.

Re:first (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 2 years ago | (#37458450)

Not really, since the putz didn't even make FP anyway.

I like... (2)

elsurexiste (1758620) | more than 2 years ago | (#37454970)

the fact that in TFA they say it's AMD comparison on Oktoberfest. These people don't take breaks!

Re:I like... (3, Insightful)

robthebloke (1308483) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455082)

I like the way they decided to spread the article across 38 pages that each take a minute to load. Oh. Spoke too soon. Now it seems to be slashdotted. I'm guessing this means no one will be reading that article. It's phoronix though, so I'm guessing the rest of article will be something along the lines of:

* Here's a test of lots of 3D graphics cards from AMD.
* Now let's conduct a large series of 2D tests, all of which are entirely irrelevant for users of 3D graphics cards....
* Conclusion: Could this be the year of linux on the desktop?

Re:I like... (2, Informative)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455268)

Just use Nvidia.

Better 3D performance.
Better monitor support.
Stuff like VA-API is actually supported.
Stuff like CUDA and OpenCL if you tend to blither on about Beowulf...

Re:I like... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37455892)

Perhaps (though I highly doubt there's any difference in "monitor support", except maybe AMD supporting more of them at the same time on most cards), but with nVidia you also get more evil. So it's a tradeoff between 3D-performance and supporting evil.

Re:I like... (1)

m50d (797211) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456204)

I've got a radeon under my desk that lets me choose between two monitors or 3D rendering. I don't see any more evil in nvidia's support - with either nvidia or AMD, you get the choice of crappy open drivers, or better binary-only drivers. The only difference is nvidia's binary-only drivers are much better than AMD's.

Re:I like... (3, Informative)

Tomato42 (2416694) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456338)

Open AMD drivers are actually usable: KDE4 composing, XV acceleration, not to mention 2D performance.

In fact, I'd say that the OSS drivers have (or at least had 8 months ago when I still struggled with fglrx) better 2D performance, If you have a 4096x1536 desktop you could actually count the seconds it took to move a window. So I'd say that 2D performance is actually more important than 3D performance. If I want to game I run the gaming OS anyway (for 3D intensive stuff).

Re:I like... (1)

m50d (797211) | more than 2 years ago | (#37458242)

In fact, I'd say that the OSS drivers have (or at least had 8 months ago when I still struggled with fglrx) better 2D performance, If you have a 4096x1536 desktop you could actually count the seconds it took to move a window.

I'm still in that position, so I'm guessing your card is better supported than mine or something. (This is on my work machine; on my home machine with an nvidia card running freebsd everything moves instantly. So I'm in a position to compare)

Re:I like... (2)

Tomato42 (2416694) | more than 2 years ago | (#37465374)

I'm using HD 4850 together with Xorg 1.10.3.901, mesa 7.11 and Linux 3.0. YMMV, but I've been using this (or with a bit earlier versions) setup for the past few months with dual-head setup and have had absolutely no performance problems as long as I stick to 2D (even with KDE4 composing). On my work machine I have an integrated AMD card and have used it with OSS drivers for the past year or more, there were occasional performance problems in the beginning but nothing major, now it's practically flawless, but it's using only two 1280x1024 screens. Even the mouse cursor corruption looks like is finally gone. Window resize is snappy, moving is instantaneous. There are only occasional rendering artifacts with resizing windows (past window content is shown), but it disappears as soon as the window is re-drawn, so it's at most 2, 3 frames at 60fps.

I'd say that the OSS AMD drivers are at least on par with Intel GPU drivers now, feature- and stability-wise. If you don't play 3D games on Linux, don't even look at Catalyst drivers, the headaches they bring are just not worth it.

There have been few additional AMD cards (mostly integrated ones or 3-4 years old) that I used with OSS drivers and haven't had any performance or configuration problems, but I used them only for few hours at most and in single head, low-res setups so can't really vouch for them.

Re:I like... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37456670)

"except maybe AMD supporting more of them at the same time on most cards"
Oh man, I just checked and you're right [phoronix.com] ! Damn, guess I'll really have to consider retiring my current nVidia gpu + Matrox Dualhead2go setup...

Re:I like... (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#37457142)

Plenty of TVs throw off bogus EDID info that knarfle some Linux video drivers.

Re:I like... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37456770)

Soo.. you didn't even bother to read the keyword "open-source" here? The open source nvidia driver -- nouveau -- also does not support your stated features.

Re:I like... (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#37457098)

"the differences among the open-source and closed-source graphics drivers."

I would love an alternative for nvidia on mini-itx boards. I would love an alternative in general.

It sucks to only have one viable option for some things.

Re:I like... (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#37457306)

Wow, way to show undeniable proof that corporations should NOT support Linux! What did the community say? What were the words constantly used? "If you'll just give all your specs to the community why we'll not only do all the driver work FOR you, but we'll buy your product!"

Well AMD did EXACTLY what you asked for, every scrap was given to you, lock stock and barrel. So NOW what do you say? "Buy Nvidia, they don't give us squat but the drivers are better!"

So can we ALL admit that having a bunch of volunteers write drivers is a really BAD idea? I mean if you hand me Grey's Anatomy and a scalpel I might be able to to remove your appendix but that don't make it such a great idea. And if you want companies to support you then you have to come through on YOUR end, which means when you give promises like that you should follow through, even if your guys drop the ball. Because if not any company that is thinking of opening their specs is gonna look at the before and after sales of AMD chips and decide "Why bother? It didn't help their sales, Linux users just bought Nvidia while complaining about the drivers that they said they'd take care of so we shouldn't release and possibly give our competitor an advantage!"

You can't have your cake and eat it too. if you tell companies you will support them if they do what you say then you damned well better support them, otherwise you are just blowing smoke and the next company to come along won't give your "advice" a second thought. I know if I was AMD I'd be saying "What were you thinking? did our numbers go up? Then what is the point? No more releases" as they are costing AMD money with each release but I guarantee the Linux sales don't make up for the trouble.

Re:I like... (0)

zixxt (1547061) | more than 2 years ago | (#37457560)

I buy AMD for the fact they are so kind to FOSS and stay away from anything Nvidia like its a disease. I do not get those that advocate for Linux and tells someone to buy Nvidia, Buying Nvidia and being an Open Source fanboi is like voting Republican and being a black lesbian cancer patient with no medical insurance.

Re:I like... (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#37461190)

Congratulations sir, you have integrity, something we have seen far too little of in this country of late. I have always been a supporter of the free market so when it came out that Intel was bribing OEMs and rigging compilers, and that Nvidia was in bed with OEMs to put out a 'fix" for the bumpgate chips that would simply crank the fans up until the warranty expired (followed by the chips) well I put my own money where my mouth is and went 100% AMD.

Did it cost me some money? some, i had a couple of gamer customers who cared only about benchmarks and when i told them I wouldn't be selling the i series they went somewhere else but I stand by my convictions and frankly the rest of my customers are quite happy with their AMD machines. They like getting more cores for a lower price, I like standing by my convictions and supporting the free market by voting with my dollars (as I urge everyone else to do).

So you should be congratulated sir, it is nice in this day and age of the "me me me" generation that someone actually stands by what they believe in. I truly think if more would follow your example we would see AMD sales go up and that would give FOSS advocates leverage into getting more companies to open their drivers. After all you can't persuade other companies to join AMD in giving full access if they don't see anything for their effort but increased costs. It all comes down to voting with your dollars, and I'm frankly surprised and more than a little saddened that after hearing that mantra so often here on /. when it comes to voting for convenience or FOSS they choose convenience.

Re:I like... (1)

marnues (906739) | more than 2 years ago | (#37461606)

You seem to like hyperbole. It might be fun to get your feathers in a ruffle, but it doesn't aid constructing a logical argument. Just a thought for you...how many people are knowledgeable in writing drivers, reading gpu specs, and have free time to give to this particular project. The number is clearly smaller than we all would like.

Re:I like... (1)

HappyPsycho (1724746) | more than 2 years ago | (#37467292)

Some counters from the aricle.

"While many users want this support so that they can move their video playback process to the GPU rather than taxing the CPU, chances are we will not see this open-source support either. While Advanced Micro Devices tries to be open-source friendly, they refuse to document or provide sample code for the UVD engine. The UVD area of the graphics processor is off-limits to official AMD open-source support over fears that exposing it could lead to compromising its Digital Rights Management mechanisms on other operating systems." - Page 4

"We may see OpenGL 3.0 support in the 2012 calendar year for Mesa as most of the work left deals with GL Shading Language 1.30. However, by then the OpenGL 3.0 specification will be about four years old and there is still catching up to do with OpenGL 3.1/3.2/3.3 and then OpenGL 4.0/4.1/4.2. Additionally, it will be in crippled form by default. There is support for some OpenGL functionality like floating-point textures, but it's not enabled in the driver source-code by default nor are any major Linux distribution vendors (aside from Arch Linux) enabling these features. The support is disabled due to patents / intellectual property covering these technologies. It makes open-source graphics drivers a hot big mess. S3 Texture Compression (S3TC) is also only available as an external library that is not packaged in tier-one distributions due to these legal concerns." - Page 6

"There's the ability for dynamic power management and to force the GPU into lower power states, but it's not enabled by default and when enabling some of these options they can cause problems -- lockups or other issues if re-clocking takes place during a scan-out. Power management though is another sore spot for Linux and other open-source drivers. The proprietary drivers for both NVIDIA and AMD are better at it then the open-source drivers." - Page 7

The first 2 are not problems with either the open source community or AMD, the last could be deemed to be moving too slow although I can't say I've ever heard of those specs being released.

Re:I like... (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#37476368)

Uhhh did you not just quote the fact that they have no choice in the matter as to support HDMI you have to support HDCP and if they compromise the DRM in HDCP then their keys get revoked and you can say goodbye to AMD?

That is like blaming MSFT because they have support for BD DRM built into Windows Vista and 7, or because they bought H.264 support for Win 7. If you don't use it then it NEVER gets turned on, but without it you have just cut a good chunk of the reason to have an HTPC right out. After all who would want an HTPC if you can't run HDMI?

And if you need support for the above tech you can still use the binary blob which is all you get from Nvidia so at least with AMD you have choice. So you are arguing choice is bad unless they break the law (DMCA says they can't break others encryption schemes legally) after they have ALREADY spent significant money in giving you the specs and paying developers to help the FOSS community?

Re:I like... (1)

HappyPsycho (1724746) | more than 2 years ago | (#37479284)

I was countering your point about "Wow, way to show undeniable proof that corporations should NOT support Linux! What did the community say? What were the words constantly used? "If you'll just give all your specs to the community why we'll not only do all the driver work FOR you, but we'll buy your product!""

There are outstanding issues that prevent the above comment from being done which has nothing to do with the open source community and at least with the patents with AMD either. In essence "If you'll just give ALL your specs to the community" is not a valid point as that has not been done.

Regardless the community has made allot of progress, if the full specs were actually released and the algorithms were not patent encumbered then much more could / would have been done. The quotes were to point out some of the areas where the open source version lags behind the binary blob and point out why.

Re:I like... (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#37484256)

But that doesn't change the fact that if you support FOSS you better buy ATI, otherwise you're just being a hypocrite and hurting yourselves. I mean you have two companies, one gives you nothing but a proprietary package, the other gives you the choice of a proprietary package or one based on every scrap of spec they can legally give to the community.

So you tell me, which is acting better towards FOSS, the one that gives nothing, or the one that gives everything they can without being arrested? Because thanks to DMCA their hands are tied when it comes to anything that is part of protected path, that encryption schema doesn't belong to them and I'm sure they not only signed NDAs up the butt to get it but they'd have the feds paying a visit if they broke HDMI.

The sad part is we are never gonna have truly free and open specs as long as big media can write blank checks and get the boot of the fed ready to kick your ass to protect DRM. And thanks to Citizens United they don't even have to be subtle about it, their PAC can just write a check and buy any politician free and legal.

But at least with AMD they are trying, both by giving the specs and by paying developers to work with the community. Doesn't that effort deserve to be rewarded by the community?

Re:I like... (1)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#37458164)

AFAIK, Radeon cards have the edge in performance at the moment, at any given price point, and run cooler. Nearly all Radeon here, and significantly better quality of life for me than in my NVidia days. My experience with NVideo Quadros, very strange behavior that can be quite frustrating. Like requiring a hard power cycle, not just a reset, to function properly in some situations. And not displaying text after switching to the text console. Mind you, I appreciate and respect NVidia, they are a worthy competitor. I would be sad if they started to lag far behind. They contribute a lot to the OpenGL community for one thing (thanks Mark).

Also, the open source Radeon driver (from a few months back courtesy of slow Ubuntu updates) is quite pleasant to use, even if lacking some features and performance. I use it for heavy 3D development and its shortcomings are not enough to motivate me to futz around installing the binary driver. The latter works just fine, impressive even, but I don't need the extra headaches at upgrade time.

Re:I like... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37466356)

But then there's those of us who have had the opposite experience. The ATI driver has never supported anything newer than a Rage Pro that I've tried it on; oh, it claims to support it, but then I get free reboots, or display trashing, or one of a million other problems.

Mind you, my nVidia experience has not been trouble-free. I had a Quadro FX 1500M in a HP/Compaq with a Core Duo. nVidia admitted they had a die bonding problem. HPQ didn't. But after they sent a tech to my house twice and killed the laptop completely insert, I managed to get them to send me a machine with a FX2700M and a C2D which was fantastic. Sold it anyway, because I don't trust it to stay that way since it's an HP, and bought three netbooks, which I'm still using. Well, I say "I" but my lady uses one of them for traveling, an Acer Aspire with a HDD. Runs Firefox OK. At the time it was a decent machine :)

When I come up on an antique computer with a Rage Pro (of whatever flavor) then I am massively grateful for the ati driver as it works and it works well. But when I have tried anything newer it has always shat itself and when I have tried fglrx, likewise. fglrx is especially frustrating because in some cases it doesn't support hardware AMD is shipping, because it is too old — that was the case with my Gateway system with R690M chipset. That's an X12xx something or other (I don't even pretend to understand any of these numbers any more) and when I bought the machine fglrx wouldn't support it because it was too old. Seriously. So now I'm done with ATI (AMD) graphics permanently. The last machine I got with ATI graphics was free. It's got a Rage Pro of some sort and it works dandy. I replaced the PS and added some RAM, put in a noisy hard disk and added Ubuntu, and now I will probably sell it for what I have invested in it. I just couldn't watch it go to the heap since it was full of expansion cards (for some reason I can never seem to successfully order a cheap, working USB2 or IEEE1394 card — I got several bad ones of each from geeks.com in a row and gave up) and a DVD burner.

Re:I like... (1)

iteyoidar (972700) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455318)

I clicked page 7 at random and it was literally a page long description of a single video card from 2006 with no performance information at all. I can't even imagine why someone would still own a Radeon 2900XT, the power bill alone would make it worth replacing at this point.

Re:I like... (1)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455580)

The tests seem to be 3D, but either one driver did not work, or the game used was CPU heavy and the difference are minimal

The test suites used seems odd, they have the closed source driver using more CPU than the OpenSource? I suspect they are using the wrong tests?

Re:I like... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37455660)

Yeah. 38 pages. And the author even has the audacity to ask you to turn off your ad-blocking software so that he can get rich as you

click

through

each

blasted

page.

And of course, the majority of the info on this page is just crap, ancient video cards etc.

Somehow they got this article onto Slashdot. And they are making a lot of money off this ...

Re:I like... (2)

nschubach (922175) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455822)

There's nothing worse than a page full of ads... except someone who tries to upsell their website in the article on a page full of ads.

As a note before proceeding, anyone who wishes to view these results ad-free (Please no AdBlock or similar; Phoronix.com is run single-handedly and funded entirely by advertisements and Phoronix Premium. This article alone required more than 310 hours to complete at great expense.) and view the entire article on a single page, can do so by subscribing to Phoronix Premium. There's also the known trick of buying me a Maß of Augustiner at Oktoberfest or any other meet-up, where some have even earned a life-time Phoronix Premium membership.

I don't even have the willpower to click through all the pages let alone read any more than the first/last page. I normally skip to the last one and see if they summed it up or if they use that space to try to generate more revenue. So as far as I can tell, they spent 310 hours on something that few people will read... because they are being pains in the ass.

Re:I like... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37455930)

What someone needs to do is find this person ("Oktoberfest 2011 and find me in the Augustiner tent") and "give" them their favorite beer. Preferably without the cup for being such an ass.

Re:I like... (2)

elashish14 (1302231) | more than 2 years ago | (#37461618)

What a dick response. Evidently, you opened the first page, and the only thing you looked at was the number of pages. Did you even read the last paragraph?

As a note before proceeding, anyone who wishes to view these results ad-free (Please no AdBlock or similar; Phoronix.com is run single-handedly and funded entirely by advertisements and Phoronix Premium. This article alone required more than 310 hours to complete at great expense.) and view the entire article on a single page, can do so by subscribing to Phoronix Premium.

If the multiple pages bothers you so much, then shell out for a subscription. If you don't want to do that, then just shut up and move on. Don't shit on someone else's hard work and complain that they don't give it to you totally for free.

And why would anyone besides a total sociopath mod something like this up?

Re:I like... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37473192)

I don't think sociopath means what you think it means.

I can sympathize with the desire to make enough money to live. But that sympathy is no reason not to warn people against going to a site that torments users that does not pay. The user experience of Phoronix is shit regardless of other factors.

Re:I like... (1)

Tomato42 (2416694) | more than 2 years ago | (#37465388)

There haven't been even a single 2D performance test in The Fine Article. It all was about 3D performance, power draw and CPU usage.

Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of all these GPUs... (2)

aapold (753705) | more than 2 years ago | (#37454980)

well assuming there were a gallium or similar driver for them...

Re:Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of all these GPUs... (1, Offtopic)

Mike Mentalist (544984) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455004)

And then imagine that they are running Quake whilst being beowulf clustered in Soviet Russia.

Re:Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of all these GPUs... (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455282)

I would tell you to go to Frys and pick up a copy of Linux Journal for the ads but they went all digital.

Re:Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of all these GPUs... (1)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455592)

They tested Gallium vs Catalyst so yes ....

Already slashdotted? (1)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#37454998)

Is my internet sucking again or did the site already get slashdotted?

Re:Already slashdotted? (1)

00Monkey (264977) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455032)

I was reading it and suddenly can't, it's not responding anymore. I guess it is!

Re:Already slashdotted? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37455054)

Doubt it, Phoronix has pretty damn high traffic anyway.

38 pages and no index (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37455026)

Thank you Phoronix, but I'll pass on that one...

don't bother (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37455040)

30+ pages filled images or graphs. The gist of it: 3D capabilities of open source drivers still suck, and the newer cards suck worse.

Re:don't bother (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37455550)

The gist of it: 3D capabilities of open source drivers still suck

No shit, did you really think a bunch of neckbeards on their mom's basements could do better than AMD (you know, the people who make the GPU)?

Re:don't bother (3, Insightful)

daid303 (843777) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455604)

The gist of it: 3D capabilities of open source drivers still suck

No shit, did you really think a bunch of neckbeards on their mom's basements could do better than AMD (you know, the people who make the GPU)?

If you look at linux on other areas, yes. Yes, then I think the basement dwellers would do better.

Re:don't bother (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455716)

Open source video card drivers have never been any good, and I say that as somebody who ran linux with a first-gen Voodoo card and many other cards since.

Even the closed-source linux drivers tend to be substandard. I've never seen a totally stable multi-seat setup, and believe me, I've tried.

Re:don't bother (0)

antdude (79039) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455890)

And no single page to show all 38 pages!

Re:don't bother (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455946)

The gist of it: 3D capabilities of open source drivers still suck, and the newer cards suck worse.

The 10 years that I ran Linux I realized that if there's closed-source drivers available use them; you'll get more features and performance. You're just gimping yourself willingly by using open-source ones.

Phoronix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37455422)

Just reading the title in my RSS and I knew it would be another terrible Phoronix article. How many years has it been that slashdot has been funnelling eyeballs and thus revenue to this awful site. It has legitimized them amongst those who don't know any better... Disgraceful.

Another Phoronix article, what will it include:

1) A comparison done ignoring an obviously major changing piece of software
2) A comparison done with no regard to common hardware
3) Utter and complete nonsense proved to newbies using flashy charts

Sadly its usually all 3.

38 page click through article (2)

RichMan (8097) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455470)

Yeah they deserve to be slashdotted for the design madness that multiplies readers by x38 or more.

Re:38 page click through article (3)

Thelasko (1196535) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455744)

On the last page they mention the page layout was a response to all of the readers using Adblock. They note that you can pay a fee to see a single page article.

Re:38 page click through article (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37456088)

On the last page they mention the page layout was a response to all of the readers using Adblock.

Well... I guess they F-ing showed us!

Re:38 page click through article (0)

nschubach (922175) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456120)

Yeah... a holy war against AdBlock will definitely turn out well for the guy that runs this site.

I think he's had a few too many beers.

Re:38 page click through article (1)

randomencounter (653994) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456982)

It doesn't help him that 3/4th's of the ads are flash only.

I can only imagine the horror of browsing that site with flash enabled, and I only made it 3 pages in before getting bored.

Re:38 page click through article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37458844)

Eactly. I don't use AdBlock, but Flashblock is a mandatory extension.

Re:38 page click through article (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37456812)

Well they don't have to worry about me using Adblock on their site any more. What I mean is, they won't have to worry about me visiting their site anymore.

Re:38 page click through article (1)

Atriqus (826899) | more than 2 years ago | (#37458692)

+1 on that; added this a while ago to my /etc/hosts.

127.0.0.1 phoronix.com
127.0.0.1 www.phoronix.com

Re:38 page click through article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37455894)

Search autopager extension and you'll never look back

Now that's a... (1)

shadowsoze (2300728) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455602)

fun little menage a trois.

An Open Response to Moronix (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455832)

If you did not make it through all of the pages, you can subscribe to Phoronix Premium so you can quickly scroll through all of the pages on a single page (and without any advertisements), so that you can draw your own conclusions about the state of open and closed-source Radeon Linux driver. (There also isn't much more of a conclusion since the large number of readers using AdBlock ruin it for the rest of you, since Phoronix.com is run single-handledly and funded entirely by advertisements and Phoronix Premium.)

I am a proud AdBlock user. I think I speak for the rest of the AdBlock users when I say that if your publication cannot survive without annoying and intrusive advertisement, we would prefer that it go the fuck away and stop making an ugly hole in the internet.

I hope Phoronix tanks, and soon. I prefer my articles in an essay format. For those of you who slept through elementary school, such a format involves an introduction, a body, and a conclusion. Crying about how much it cost you to develop an article that people aren't willing to pay for is what losers do. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

Re:An Open Response to Moronix (0)

PhxBlue (562201) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456038)

Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

There were a lot of winners at my high school way back when.

Re:An Open Response to Moronix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37456124)

Mod up parent. Right on the money. And the real problem with Phoronix isn't the multipage layout but the nonexistent content.

Re:An Open Response to Moronix (0)

hduff (570443) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456378)

Mod up parent. Right on the money. And the real problem with Phoronix isn't the multipage layout but the nonexistent content.

They have plenty of content: extended introductions, lots of graphs, oodles of irrelevant tests, observations on the irrelevant tests and obscure, confusing conclusions.

And the adverts ARE the content, so turn AdBlock off you thieving bastages.

Re:An Open Response to Moronix (1)

Amouth (879122) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456854)

no shit - i don't run ad-block - But after trying to skip around to what i wanted, with no luck, i left. that is so poorly done i wouldn't even want to be an advertiser on that site.

Re:An Open Response to Moronix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37458822)

AdBlock user here. Couldn't agree more. Awesome post.

Re:An Open Response to Moronix (1)

tick-tock-atona (1145909) | more than 2 years ago | (#37462934)

I hope Phoronix tanks, and soon. I prefer my articles in an essay format.

Yep, there's a reason why I pay a LWN subscription.

Re:An Open Response to Moronix (1)

rdnetto (955205) | more than 2 years ago | (#37465814)

I don't normally use AdBlock. I only installed it on my netbook the other day because I my wifi connection was at modem speed. But this sort of behaviour guarantees I'm not going to be reading that site.

Re:An Open Response to Moronix (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 2 years ago | (#37470670)

Dear Phoronix,
You're like Toms Hardare bent over Eugenia in OSNews and had a retarded lovechild.
Signed, Everyone

38 pages (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 2 years ago | (#37455908)

I realise it took a long time to do these tests and I realise that sites should be compensated in some way to justify their time and expenses. But 38 pages is taking the piss. There must be a better way of arranging an article that balances ad impressions against a visitor's patience. I doubt many people would bother to wade through that many pages and probably just skip to the end so the exercise is counterproductive.

On the subject of AMD drivers, they stink. Both the closed source ones and the open source ones. The flgrx drivers do not appear to like gnome-shell AT ALL and the open source drivers aren't exactly speed demons.

Re:38 pages (5, Interesting)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456206)

I realise it took a long time to do these tests and I realise that sites should be compensated in some way to justify their time and expenses. But 38 pages is taking the piss.

The saddest thing about Phoronix is that even if you pay him it's still 38 ad-laden pages. That is, unless you remember to load the forum page first, before you RTFA. And he has known this for years (that's not an exaggeration), received numerous complaints from his paying customers about it (doesn't have the "I didn't know you people were unhappy" excuse) and still hasn't done anything about it.

And I really mean "sad." That is the best word to describe it. It's a (minor! I'll admit!) tragedy in the original sense of the word. The site is basically a good idea and otherwise handled well (for what it's intended to do), but is dooming itself simply because the central character refuses to see the elephant in the room that everyone else sees.

I don't hate Phoronix and will be sorry to see it go (tables of numbers have their place). And yet I'm probably not going to renew my support. Maybe its loss will make new room for the same niche, but with someone else handling this basic common-sense in-your-face aspect sensibly.

biplanes with banners / bigotry about binary blobs (1)

epine (68316) | more than 2 years ago | (#37458654)

I don't hate Phoronix either, but he's in a bad place trying to monetize eyeballs connected to brains capable of tracking more moving objects than the Chicago-Washington corridor after a threat level upgrade from orange to burnt lavender. The mental airspace is crowded enough without adding biplanes with banners.

Why do the people crowing "use NVidia" put me in mind of Jack Nicholson shouting "You can't handle the documentation!" Damn straight, ya bunch of cowards.

Apparently, with enough documentation, no programming task is shallow after all. Didn't prominent memes in the open source camp put forward the notion that the only thing holding us back was lack of technical disclosure? Where are those voices now?

When the going gets tough, the tough get Binary Blobs. Not the banner I originally unfurled.

Re:biplanes with banners / bigotry about binary bl (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37466544)

When the going gets tough, the tough get Binary Blobs. Not the banner I originally unfurled.

ATI keeps promising to provide enough specs for proper support, and it keeps not happening until well after the fact. That, or the developers are a bunch of douches. I don't believe THAT, though, because the driver actually does work super-well for antique (well-known) hardware. Until the situation resolves itself (and ATI drivers have always been trash - I was getting crashes from ATI Mach32 drivers in Windows 3!) there is nVidia. Or maybe someday Intel will figure out how to make a GPU worth using for more than a navigation system.

Re:38 pages (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37457436)

The flgrx drivers do not appear to like gnome-shell AT ALL

Those are some smart drivers. Do they also not like Unity?

an interesting idea to (1)

nimbius (983462) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456114)

compare all these cards, but jesus christ after 40 pages of clickthrough i dont really care what conclusion the guy came to.
its a general waste of my time and effort.

FTIW, I like Phoronix! (1)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456462)

FTIW, I like Phoronix!

They are the only ones testing a wide variety of hardware using Linux.

There is no contender and I have based many buying decisions on their articles. I still read articles testing hardware on Windows, but their results not necessarily translate to Linux.

So, FTIW, I like Phoronix!

"FTIW" - "FWIW, I like Phoronix!" (1)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 2 years ago | (#37456486)

FWIW, I like Phoronix...

Re:FTIW, I like Phoronix! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37457338)

I like turtles!

Last 5 Pages (34-38) (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37456470)

With the very light workload of idling and video playback, the graphics cards when using the Radeon driver already tended to be warmer than the Catalyst driver, which properly supports PowerPlay and other power management technologies by default. The open-source power management options must be toggled manually and even then the mileage may vary. Some of these graphics cards were easily 8~10+ Celsius warmer when using the open-source driver! The Radeon HD 5830 was more than 20C warmer with the open-source driver. (The temperature in my office during all of this testing was maintained at about 23.3C.

To not a lot of surprise, the system power consumption was greater with the open-source driver over Catalyst. This in part due to the lack of GPU core / memory re-clocking by default and other missing or disabled power management options where as the Catalyst driver is able to effectively handle this in a seamless manner.

When running Warsow and monitoring the system metrics, the CPU usage remained much lower with the open-source driver over Catalyst. This CPU usage difference is perhaps due to a bottleneck in the driver code and needing to wait on the GPU to finish slowly execute its operations. The CPU usage difference was also similar when running Nexuiz.

When the GPU under test is experiencing full load, each of the tested graphics cards -- the ones with thermal sensors at least -- tended to have around the same core temperature.

When the system was idling, the GPU temperature was higher and the system was burning through more power with each of the graphics cards. However, with the load provided by Warsow on each of the GPUs, there was not much of a power consumption difference since each of the GPUs are running at their maximum power states (the Radeon always does by default, where as the Catalyst driver clocks down on newer hardware and has its other power management features when not experiencing complicated loads). In fact, the power consumption with the open-source stack tended to be slightly less for some of the tested graphics cards with Warsow 0.61, but this is the game where barely any of the Radeon graphics cards can run at a playable frame-rate with Gallium3D.

Hopefully you enjoyed this very extensive look at the ATI/AMD Radeon Linux drivers across a large selection of hardware with valuable information on each of the pages. Each driver has its own distinct advantages and disadvantages depending upon your hardware/software configuration, intended workload, and what features are most important to your needs. Neither driver, however, is perfect. The open-source Radeon Linux driver is also arguably the best open-source Linux driver for discrete graphics cards and at least it has the backing of AMD -- unlike NVIDIA that provides no open-source support, but the community relies upon reverse-engineering to produce a driver with mixed-results. If the open-source driver works on your system and meets all of your needs, great, but otherwise there is the Catalyst Linux driver.

Funny... (1)

raymorphic (2461142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37464976)

Quote:
* Here's a test of lots of 3D graphics cards from AMD.
* Now let's conduct a large series of 2D tests, all of which are entirely irrelevant for users of 3D graphics cards....
* Conclusion: Could this be the year of linux on the deskto?

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