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A Basket Full of Apple News

CmdrTaco posted more than 13 years ago | from the ladies-and-gentleman-the-steve-jobs-show dept.

Apple 444

active8or writes "During hit keynote at MacWorld San Fransico, Steve Jobs introduced the new tools from Apple. One, iDVD was a very powerful tool for making DVDs at home, and iTunes a powerfull MP3 and music ripping, writing, playing environment....for free. This seems to follow their new "killer apps" strategy. In addition, a 733 MHz G4 was introduced, and the entire line got a update. ". The new powerbook looks awesome (if only it had 3 mouse buttons).

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Combo CDRW/DVD-R (4)

green pizza (159161) | more than 13 years ago | (#519380)

Not to mention that one new option for the G4 Desktop (and standard on high-end prebuilts) is the "SuperDrive"... a single-tray, multiple-laser drive that basicly combines CDRW and DVD-R. Yes kids, real DVD-R, play it in your consumer $150 DVD deck. Apple sells DVD-R blanks for $10 at Probably can find them cheaper elsewhere.

Neat looking screensaver iTunes (1)

demaria (122790) | more than 13 years ago | (#519384)

Don't forget that neat iTunes screensaver thing. Really cool looking.

Also Nvida Geoforce replaces ATI in some models (1)

acomj (20611) | more than 13 years ago | (#519387)

I wonder how long till geoforce imacs...

AGP 4X and nVidia GFX (1)

green pizza (159161) | more than 13 years ago | (#519390)

PowerMac G4 also got an upgrade to AGP 4X and nVidia Geforce 2 MX is standard on the higher end configurations. ATi Rage 128 Pro is standard on the lowest, and Radeon is an option. Lots to choose from, but where is the nVidia Geforce 2 GTS, GTS Pro, GTS Ultra, and nVidia Quadro cards? Especially with Alias-Wavefront Maya 3.0 coming out for Mac soon.

Give it a rest (5)

MouseR (3264) | more than 13 years ago | (#519393)

If only it had 3 mouse buttons.

You got both hands on the frickin' keyboard anyhow.

Karma karma karma karma karmeleon: it comes and goes, it comes and goes.

533s ARE MP! (3)

Johnny Mnemonic (176043) | more than 13 years ago | (#519394)

Before it gets flying too thick, take a look at buying a 533 G4 for $2199 and adding a SECOND processor for a lousy $300, from the Apple Store as a "Build to Order" option. Total=$2499, including 128 RAM, 40 G HD, CD-R/W, Nvidia Card, and Gig-E.

Faster Apples (1)

gordzilla (97994) | more than 13 years ago | (#519473)

I'm not an Apple user, but it's nice to see Apple finally getting the G4 a bit more upto par with AMD/Intel speeds (after all Joe Average buys more often than not on the machines MHZ value). Hopefully this will give AMD and Intel a bit more competition and lower prices even further.

Steve Jobs is such a psycho! (1)

boinger (4618) | more than 13 years ago | (#519477)

That said, I think he is one of the most admirable CEOs (well, iCEOs) around. He's brought Apple around to be the company that I fell in love with back in the pre-Gil era, and then some. OSX is very exciting...I don't think it's going to stand the computer world as a whole on it's ear, but it definitely is already having impact on Unix community, and for those of us who are cross-overs (Mac and Unix), this is a very exciting time (and I make that squinchy face like Tank in the Matrix).

I'm just glad I don't work for Sir Steve. He's just a little to militant for me - I think he'd kill me. I'll just reap the benefits of his psychoses from the consumer end.

Although I'm not an apple (1)

DeafDumbBlind (264205) | more than 13 years ago | (#519479)

The DVD recorder is damn cool. Nice that the systems ship with 256 MB of RAM, now if they only came with a nice 1.2 Ghz Tbird. Maybe when OS X ships.

Toys (2)

TheLittleVoices (170272) | more than 13 years ago | (#519482)

I was kinda wishing steve would tape a few G4 Powerbooks under the seat like he did with the clear optical mice last time. I liked how he had "Sex" to describe it. I guess they are reaching out to another group of people....

Not an option for PowerBooks... :( (1)

TomatoMan (93630) | more than 13 years ago | (#519487)

This drive is awesome. And the new PowerBooks are awesome. If only the CDRW/DVD-R drive were available as an option on the PowerBooks - even as an external for more dough... perhaps a pipe dream, but I'm now very torn between the killer desktop with the drive and the sleek PB's without it.


Attention, Everyone! (3)

Electric Angst (138229) | more than 13 years ago | (#519489)

Everyone, please, calm down and listen!

I know all of this stuff seems amazing. In fact, most of it really is. What you need to understand, though, is that your 'oohs' and 'ahhs' are not your own.

You are currently under the power of Steve Job's mind-control marketing skillz.!

Now, there is only one way to possibly get out of this situation before Steve has you drinking Kool-Aid and chanting about the glory of NeXT.

First, go to the Apple Store [] . Now, pick out one of the super-hype systems that amaze you so much.

Play with it.

Configure it.

Now, once you've selected every possible option, and loaded this potentially-yours Apple with all the goodies that make these machines so great, look at the price.

There you go, you're back to normal. These systems are damn cool, but it's probably time to pass...

(Oh, btw... I am an Apple owner and user, so please keep the flaming down...)

If only... (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 13 years ago | (#519492)

If only it had 3 mouse buttons.

What's the problem? Lots of XF86 users emulate three buttons with two. Just add another layer of emulation: emulate two buttons with one, and then emulate three buttons with the two.


Watch the keynote (2)

GPS Pilot (3683) | more than 13 years ago | (#519511)

Fire up your QuickTime Player, hit Command-U or control-U, and paste in this URL: mov

The quality of the streaming video is much better if you use QuickTime 5 PR2 (get it at [] ).

Mouse buttons... (1)

Omar (12533) | more than 13 years ago | (#519514)

(if only it had 3 mouse buttons)
It took long enough to get 2 mouse buttons... I wouldn't be holding my breath for 3 :)

Looks like the DVD-CCA's worst nightmare (2)

Argyle (25623) | more than 13 years ago | (#519519)

With an affordable DVD burner, you don't even need DeCSS.

You can do a track by track clone of a DVD and get a perfect copy if you have a DVD player and burner in the same system.

Netflix [] + new Pioneer Superdrive = big DVD library. Wait until you are buying DVD blanks on spindles like we do with CDRs.

I predict the first lawsuit will be filed within a month.

No talk of OS X as server (1)

shadowplay (25867) | more than 13 years ago | (#519521)

I didn't notice any mention of the underlying FreeBSD based server achitecture during the broadcast today on TechTV. I do wonder how much server will remain behind the client-centric GUI. Will this be something to replace our Linux/XFree setup?

Question about Apple's MPEG-2 CODEC (3)

green pizza (159161) | more than 13 years ago | (#519524)

Steve Jobs claims that the MPEG-2 (encoding) CODEC that iDVD and DVD Studio Pro use is "much faster than any other". He claims that most other software encoders for MPEG-2 run at about a 20:1 ratio, while the CODEC Apple has can encode at about a 2:1 ratio on a G4... that is, 30 minutes of video can be encoded into MPEG-2 format in about 60 minutes.

That's fine and dandy, but how fast are other software encoders out there? Are they really as slow as 20:1? Perhaps they're even faster than Apple's 2:1 claim? Curious.

Powerbook G4 (2)

apirkle (40268) | more than 13 years ago | (#519527)

Some of the specs on the new Powerbook...
  • 1" thick titanium case (13.5x9.5x1)
  • Weighs 5.3 pounds
  • 5 hour battery life
  • 400 or 500 MHz PowerPC G4
  • 15.2-inch diagonal widescreen (3:2 ratio) display
  • Slot-loading DVD drive
  • Up to 1GB of RAM
  • Up to 30GB of disk space
  • Built-in Airport antenna
With the full release of OS X just around the corner (March 24 I hear), this thing is looking really nice - the uberlaptop. Light, decent battery life, sleek, powerful - and with OS X, it's even UNIX. Plus, who doesn't want a portable widescreen DVD player?

clock rate (1)

GPS Pilot (3683) | more than 13 years ago | (#519528)

I eagerly await the day when people realize clock rate means nothing when comparing different processor architectures. If you watched the keynote, you saw a G4 733 MHz kick the butt of a Pentium 4 1500 MHz. You can't explain that away with technobabble... why do you even try?

Beautiful PowerBook and Price Cuts - no surprises (3)

nellardo (68657) | more than 13 years ago | (#519529)

Well, the rumors on the new PowerBook were dead on. Even so, the machine is impressive - a lot of stuff in a small space. And elegant - executives will happily tote this around when they wouldn't touch a lime green iBook.

The price cuts were also no big surprise - of course the audience cheered, but the press had been giving Apple a beating for the past month or so about soft sales. "Soft Sales? Price Cut!" Apple had already been doing it in the form of rebates.

Even March for OS X was no surprise - CNET called it "late", but that's pretty much what people have been expecting.

Steve always gives a good show, though.

More info (5)

MotownAvi (204916) | more than 13 years ago | (#519538)

A few interesting points:

  • The new PowerMacs come with CD-RW drives (as expected), except for the 733Mhz one which comes with a "SuperDrive" combo CD-RW/DVD-R (not to be confused with the "SuperDrive" high-density floppy drive). The top three models also come with the nVidia GeForce2 MX card, but a Radeon is available as an option.
  • OS X is going to be in stores on March 24 (don't have any idea what that date is), and going to be preinstalled on Macs in the summer. The Apple menu is back on the left side of the menubar, and holds general system-wide stuff. It's not configurable. Folders in the dock, when you click and hold, pop up menus of their contents. The buttons in the header in Finder windows are configurable. If the buttons are shown, opening a folder replaces the existing contents; if the buttons are hidden, a new folder is spawned. There is a new widget on the right side of the title bar of windows for toggling the buttons. A status bar ("2 items, 7.9 GB free") is togglable separately.
  • iTunes (which Jobs accidentally called "iMusic" once) is a mix of SoundJam MP and Radialogic's CD Master. Plays and rips CDs, burns CDs, for free. Go get it from your iDisk.
  • iDVD is quite interesting. It encodes MPEG2 video at half-realtime, and provides a slick, idiot-proof way to build DVDs. The options for menus are varied but limited, and in the demo there always seemed to be an Apple logo in the corner (ugh). There is a pro version of it called DVD Studio Pro, but it wasn't demoed. This is obviously derived from Apple's acquisition of Astarte's software.
  • The Titanium PowerBook is sweet. Widescreen LCD, slot-loading DVD drive, G4. Whoo whee!


Re:Combo CDRW/DVD-R "SuperDrive" (5)

fluffhead (32589) | more than 13 years ago | (#519542)

I remember back when the original Mac "superdrive" was a 1.44 MB auto-inject/eject floppy drive that would read and write Mac and PC format HD floppies (it was "super" compared to the 400/800KB DD Mac-only drives that were its predecessors). Now we get 4.7GB per disc - super-schweet! You've come a long way, baby...

My only caveat - does the DVD authoring include CSS-free and region-free options? Can you rip & copy DVD's with it? I'd hate for something this cool to be locked into the MPAA's riduculous regime....

#include "disclaim.h"
"All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak

Re:Links (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#519544)

My god, you are the most content free karma-whore I have ever seen. Jesus Christ on a fucked up crutch. If I had the ability I would mod you down to -5 fucking clueless idiot.

Are people really too stupid to find "" with their chosen extension? If you get modded up I will have no choice but to track down the moderators (all of them) and have them shot in the town square.

Steve rules (2)

WickedClean (230550) | more than 13 years ago | (#519546)

Steve Jobs is so much cooler than Bill Gates. I think Jobs would actually kick your ass if you called him a dork, while Gates would just mouth off about how he is not/has never been/and doesn't see how he could be a dork.

Gigabit Ethernet (1)

green pizza (159161) | more than 13 years ago | (#519552)

Is there such a thing as full-duplex gigabit ethernet? Since all tower G4s have GigE, it would be mighty cool to connect to together via a crossover cable at GigE Full Duplex. Can't afford an 8-port GigE switch quite yet.

Glad to be a Mac user...not glad to be poor. (1)

interactive_civilian (205158) | more than 13 years ago | (#519554)


I am highly impressed with all of this new stuff. Speed bumped G4s (about time), DVD-R/CD-RW, some cool new software...

Not to mention 5 hours of battery life!!! And Titanium (anyone want to hammer some nails? *grin*)

Ok...this is all pretty cool stuff. Just wish I could afford it! Seems like most, if not all of the new stuff is aimed at either the super rich, or the ultra-professionals that can benefit from this sort of thing. Not too many home users can afford or are willing to pay the $3499 for the only system that allows home DVD authoring.

Now, for some gripes: how about a G3 cube for under $1k? New iBooks perhaps with better resolution? Better servers to handle the /. like effect of thousands of users trying to simulatneously download OS 9.1 update?

Apple has done some really cool things so far with the new stuff at MWSF, but it seems mostly aimed at the returning Mac User. When combining price and performance (mainly price), it doesn't seem like they have done much to try to convert WIntel users.

On a slightly different note, it is nice to see that they listened to feedback about OS X and implemented some of the demands of the public. Of course, we'll have to wait untill March to find out just how much it has improved. By the way, I didn't quite catch this: anyone know if they put the clock back on the menu bar or not?

Ok...I'm going to stop now because this post is all over the place...guess I'm just too excited.

Re:Attention, Everyone! (1)

Che Guevarra (85906) | more than 13 years ago | (#519557)

You head over to Sam's club and look at the prices, I'll be at the Apple store drooling.

wow.... (1)

heldlikesound (132717) | more than 13 years ago | (#519559)

I'm thrilled, Apple is at the forefront of innovation and the future of computing has never looked so interesting or empowering. I've always been an Apple freak, today I not ashamed of that. OSX looks to be the OS to beat this upcoming decade in terms of stability AND ease of use. And for multimedia NOBODY comes close to Apple these days. They may have problems, but they see the future and are paving a road towards REAL convergence between camera, home theater, MP3 players and the like. Steve even referenced Linux users and the Open Source movement in a positive way today, you won't hear the Borg do that! It feels like 1984 all over again.


(And don't get me started on the titanium powerbook. If you don't have the money, don't even look at them, you'll go rob a bank or something illegal (but understandable).

Re:URL link in story? (2)

Smitty825 (114634) | more than 13 years ago | (#519562) about try just about any Mac site you can think of:

Mac Slash [] (they even use Slash!)

Xlr8yourMac []

Macintouch []

...and don't forget the "big" news sites like: []


MacWeek []

Re:Not an option for PowerBooks... :( (1)

InstantCool (19982) | more than 13 years ago | (#519574)

I'd be surprised if they came out with a new drive like that and it slim enough to fit into that ultra thin case design. I guess we'll have to wait 4-5 months.

Re:Give it a rest (1)

sarhjinian (94086) | more than 13 years ago | (#519578)

Come on, I think people are intelligent enough these days to be able to deal with more than one mouse button

Many people in Apple's target market aren't suited to 2+ button mice. Its not really a valid criticism -- Apple's serving Apple customers.
The operating system supports (sort of) two button mice, so its not really that limiting. Many applications don't support Apple's method of accessing the second mouse button (Microsoft, Netscape, ahem!) but that's not really Apple's fault -- if the developers don't want to use the system's services, that's their choice. OS X should do a better job of this, but if someone (Microsoft, Netscape) decides to write their apps with their own proprietary input handling and menu routines, Apple can't really be blamed.
I'm actually glad they stick to one button mice. Do end-user support for Windows and the MacOS and just try to explain right-click to someone over the phone. Its much nicer to just say "Hold down the control key and press the mouse button on..."

heh... (1)

interactive_civilian (205158) | more than 13 years ago | (#519581)

Only $10,047 for my dream setup:
the High end 733MHz G4 system w/ DVD-R
120GB HD space total
22" Flat Panel
GeForce 2 MX
Airport (the cheapest thing I picked)

ahhh...a boy can dream, can't he?

Interesting... (2)

Siqnal 11 (210012) | more than 13 years ago | (#519584)

Important Note: Power Mac G4 and PowerBook G4 computers introduced in January 2001 are not compatible with Mac OS X Public Beta. []


Will Steve Jobs save us from The Corporation? (2)

Akardam (186995) | more than 13 years ago | (#519586)

The first thing that struck me when I read the article was the iDVD and iTunes bit. I did a double take.

Steve Jobs is not as dumb as a lot of people say he looks. Not only is he including tools, standard, to manipulate two of today's more popular media formats, but he's doing what very few other major computer manufacturers are not... not bowing to the interests of Holywood (at least that we know of, and there's no reason, given Apple's past track record, that they would). You can bet your asses that the MPAA & RIAA aren't happy with this.

And for that, I have to congradulate him.

notes (2)

Refrag (145266) | more than 13 years ago | (#519588)

You can see the notes I took at my homepage [] and Drop [] .


Price to Performance (1)

green pizza (159161) | more than 13 years ago | (#519591)

We use several "sawtooth" (AGP-based PowerMac G4 towers) at work for video editing. Couple DVCAM decks with IEEE1394 "firewire" cards for interface, using FinalCutPro and MediaCleanerPro. For editing work and encoding (to Soresonson 2.0 and MPEG-1) our G4s keep up with a 1.something GHz Dell that was recently purchased. Price to performance ratio looks fine to me. Especially since the G4s seem to be more stable than our Win2K boxes for video work. For $3000 a box can be configured at that includes the combo CDRW/DVD-R drive. That's a real DVD-R! Price to performance blows away pretty much everything else.

What's your point? Want a cheap, but still fast, box to run Linux? Want to run linux or windows period? Use x86, that's what it's made for.

It's not really that bad. (1)

SPYvSPY (166790) | more than 13 years ago | (#519615)

As long as I can remember, my dream computer has cost about 10 grand. I'm glad it's still true. Also, look at that configuation. That's a kickass box, dude.

Re:*&(&@$ deceptive benchmarks! (1)

NetCurl (54699) | more than 13 years ago | (#519617)

You speak of these Benchmarks and ask Apple to just give up. I've heard and read of the merits of both architectures. Can you please provide all of us with some real proof (and not just propaganda mixed with mindless drivel) as to how they are "falling way behind."

I understand that their clock rates aren't on the ball (Apple's chips are made by motorolla and IBM, lay the blame where it is deserved), but I wouldn't say that the G4 chips as well as the RISC arch. are "falling way behind."

The new laptop (2)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 13 years ago | (#519620)

From the Apple page.

Just 1 inch thick and weighing a mere 5.3 pounds, the PowerBook G4 is a heavyweight in an ultralight body-the world's first notebook computer made of 99.5% pure grade CP1 (meaning commercially pure) titanium.

It's nice to see that Apple has taken a cue from the rest of the marketing world, and decided to try and convince us that titanium is the next cure for cancer/solution to world hunger/answer to all your spiritual questions.

But my God, that laptop does look sweet. It's interesting, though, that it takes Apple to give us a "wide screen" laptop like this. I wonder how long before we start seeing Dell's and IBM's like this?

Re:AGP 4X and nVidia GFX (1)

willy_me (212994) | more than 13 years ago | (#519623)

The interesting thing is that the Radeon option (32meg DDR) costs the same as the nVidia (MX 32meg SDRAM.) Wouldn't the Radeon be a lot faster then the crippled nVidia? (Crippled by the fact it's using SDRAM while also not being their fastest chip.)

Oh well, but to answer your question: Mac support wasn't designed into the nVidia chips you mentioned. Only the most recent MX chipset has Mac support. Expect their forthcoming chips to also support Macs.

A bit off topic here, why do I all the sudden have the ability to moderate? I mean one second I don't and the next I do. Not that I mind - it just comes as a bit of a suprise. ;)


Re:*&(&@$ deceptive benchmarks! (1)

frogenstein (251638) | more than 13 years ago | (#519624)

The only benchmark I saw during the demo was the only one that is *not* deceptive; the actual application mac users need processing speed for. Now the demo could have been rigged and I am sure on most other applications a PeeCee would bury the mac. But Photoshop is the main reason Mac users upgrade and if photoshop is the "deceptive" benchmark that Macs are designed to "cheat" on - more power to 'em!

What about MacOS 9.1?!?!?!? (1)

tarkap (234141) | more than 13 years ago | (#519626)

Where's 9.1?!!? Did Steve forget about something? Apple fsck'd up the ROM files for all the new G4's so they're not compatible with the older models, AND the newest G4 (with the purple button) ROM is unstable! So are we supposed to sit around until March 24th with flaky computers?!?!? sheesh!

Titanium Powerbook (2)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#519628)

To defend against people throwing things at you during office meetings. Since, considering you are carrying a Mac, will probably happen. :)

Re:heh... (1)

Electric Angst (138229) | more than 13 years ago | (#519631)

Damn, only $10,047

The one I wanted was $13,956. Of course, I went for the dual 533mhz and the three 32gig drives...

733 MHz G4, Titanium PB, more (2)

YoungYoda (112518) | more than 13 years ago | (#519632)

Sorry for the self-promotion, but there's full coverage including live keynote news, impressions of the keynote, and a PB G4 vs Sony Vaio comparison, at []

Re:Give it a rest (3)

TWR (16835) | more than 13 years ago | (#519648)

The operating system supports (sort of) two button mice, so its not really that limiting. Many applications don't support Apple's method of accessing the second mouse button (Microsoft, Netscape, ahem!) but that's not really Apple's fault -- if the developers don't want to use the system's services, that's their choice.

I'm not sure what you mean. I've been using my two-button wheel mouse with my iMac for a year. Right button is mapped (via USB Overdrive) to control-click. Works everywhere, including in MSIE and Netscape. The wheel just works beautifully in all apps (as a wheel, third mouse button, and clicked-up/clicked-down).

This might be due to the fact that USB Overdrive is without a doubt the coolest bit of shareware around. Now that Apple is in a licensing mood, it should be rolled into the Classic OS ASAP...


Now THIS is what we like to see... (1)

connorbd (151811) | more than 13 years ago | (#519653)

First off, Titanium. You gotta love the Titanium -- it's probably going to look more dated more quickly than any other laptop design ever, but it's thoroughly sweet. That said, I'd still like to see a subnotebook one of these days, as PowerBook Duos are not always easy to find (and none of them can run OS X). But it is too slick for words.

Second, more slots in the G4. I have a PowerMac 6500. It's a great computer, but you do wind up feeling the limitation of 2 slots (!) pretty quickly. They say three isn't enough either; the multimedia people that have always been the primary power users on the Mac platform are loving it already, I'm sure. I am, however, a bit ambivalent about returning to single-processordom -- Apple was setting a very useful precedent with the MP systems and it's a bit disheartening to see them going back on it. Yes, the door is open, but it doesn't make much sense to make a standard feature like that optional.

As for being able to create your own DVDs... hot DAMN! An open-source way of doing it would be nice, but just to have the power at all is a thing of great beauty. iTunes is pretty sweet as well, and I applaud Apple for including it.

So I like what I see -- now if they'd just loosen the strings a little...


OSX updates buried in the gee-whiz hardware news (2)

bluecalix (128634) | more than 13 years ago | (#519658)

Buried in the (deserved) hype surrounding the new hardware is the OSX improvements. Airport and printing support is fixed. The apple menu is back. The dock is now resizable and has a hierarchical pop up feature. The os9 finder is sortof back, with it's multiple windows (if you want it).

Re:Give it a rest (4)

Golias (176380) | more than 13 years ago | (#519659)

it'd be a crime to only have one mouse button on a UNIX box.

Alas, it was once thought to be a crime for a UNIX user to think they even needed a mouse at all.

It's not a Gnome box, or even an X-Windows box... it's an OS X box. This GUI does not need a third button, or even a second button. Get over it.

An improvement. (1)

el_munkie (145510) | more than 13 years ago | (#519660)

I am currently using one of the newer dual processor G4s, with all the trimmings, clear optical mouse, keyboard, etc. I have never liked Apples, but I do have to use them at work. I have always seen them as candy colored pieces of crap that are targeted at first time computer buyers. Up until recently, the only innovation coming out of this company has been external eye-candy.
I have toyed with OSX Beta, and my impression was that it was, well, slow. The machine it was on, another dual processor G4, was more than capable of handling the GUI, but everything took a painfully long time. Sure the screen looked purdy, but I would rather not spend so much time staring at it.
However, I do appreciate their use of dual processors, and Firewire. I believe that their use of these technologies brought them to PCs. And we have one of those gigantic flatscreens in our office, it is powered by one cord, and contains a USB hub. That is cool too.
I am afraid that Apple is focusing too much on making their machines pretty, when they should be focusing on speed and reliability. it is just like the hockey puck mouse inflicted on Mac-heads: its focus was on aesthetics, not ergnomics, and though it was nice to look at, it was hell to use.

Not surprised... (1)

green pizza (159161) | more than 13 years ago | (#519662)

The OS X Public Beta has been out for awhile now... and the updated PowerMac G4 and all-new PowerBook G4 are both based on some significantly updated hardware. Just wait for an update from Apple... or at the least, wait for OS X final to ship. I really doubt this is a sign that OS X won't ever run on these machines.

Re:heh... (2)

TWR (16835) | more than 13 years ago | (#519675)

Why would you buy RAM and hard disk from Apple? I can kinda understand getting the flat panel, as it is far prettier (and according to all the reviews I've seen, simply better) than all the other flat panels out there. But if you want to cut $4K off the price...


Making Friends With the MPAA -- NOT! (3)

SteveM (11242) | more than 13 years ago | (#519677)

As part of the announcements, Apple will be selling blank DVD-Rs for $10 each. One of the arguments against DVD piracy has been the high cost of blank media. Poof!

So can I put a DVD in one machine, send via ethernet to another with a superdrive and make a copy?

Think we'll ever see something like this in a Sony?

Steve M

Re:Not an option for PowerBooks... :( (2)

willy_me (212994) | more than 13 years ago | (#519683)

Just stick it in an external firewire/IDE case. One should be able to purchase it for clones in the next few months. Read the article on to learn more about the firewire/ide case. It's listed under storage. Also works great with a PC laptop and a firewire PCMCIA card.


"Advantages" of three-button mice under Windows... (1)

SPYvSPY (166790) | more than 13 years ago | (#519686)

1. Seemingly interminable wait while the redundant (albeit proximate) contextual menu loads and (finally) appears.

2. Scrolling. Also redundant and not terribly accurate either. I never use it.

Is it just me or are both these features available via a single mouse button?

I have used a three button ThinkPad for two years now and never, ever hit the damn scroll button. I'm not kidding about the right-click, either. The damn thing takes so long to appear, I often wonder if it's doing anything at all. It sucks.

Re:Watch the keynote (3)

Speare (84249) | more than 13 years ago | (#519688)

Link given ( . mov) was broken due to the magic of "spacedot," that lazy perl code that adds rand om sp a ces to lon g wor ds, as if mySQL or Perl or HTML really had such wordwrapping limits.

Fixed: mov []

Price to Performance Thoughts... (2)

green pizza (159161) | more than 13 years ago | (#519689)

Looking thru the thread I see two camps... the Mac folks that are cheering and the anti-Mac folks that are saying Apple is way behind and time to get rid of any sort of benchmarks. I use practically every platform out there and really only use macs for video work (we have several sawtooth G4s at work for editing). To be totally honest, the only time I have ever seen a PC be faster for such work is with "slim" editing packages that look to be designed for performance only. Premiere (ugh, is it *still* around?), Avid, and many other full packages run equally fast or even a bit slower (especially for encoding) on ~1 GHz PCs than they do on a 500 MHz G4. Provided you have enough RAM and aren't crippled with a slow or small drive.

There are certain things I don't even consider when looking at a Mac.... games for example. I'm thrilled to see Apple using nVidia graphics, but I still wouldn't buy a Mac for games. It's fun to launch Quake3 and play a quick deathmatch on the G4s over lunch at work. The G4s and their Rage 128 play it pretty well at 640x480, but it's sure no Geforce2 on a PC. Ditto for these "MS Word Scrolling Tests" that a lot of the professional magazines do. I can't recall any time I've scrolled more than 2 or three pages at full standard scroll speed. I usually page down, drag the scroll thumb way down, jump to page x, or search.

Benchmarks these days are silly. Buy the best machine for the job. Dunno what machine that is? Ask around and read some professional level magazines. Have some machines demoed to you.

Personally, want a linux box? Get x86 or Alpha. Want a huge nutty server? Get a Sun or SGI. Want games? Get a console or a PC. Want Video? Get a G4 (or an SGI Octane2 or Onyx2/Onyx3000 if you want to do uncompressed 1080i HDTV). Get over the benchmarks.

Re:Question about Apple's MPEG-2 CODEC (1)

Refrag (145266) | more than 13 years ago | (#519690)

DVD Studio Pro does allow you to use other, potentially hardware, encoders instead of Apple's if you choose. I'm not sure if iDVD does this or not.


Mac OS 9.1 (5)

Shadow Knight (18694) | more than 13 years ago | (#519691)

Mac OS 9.1 was also released, but it wasn't mentioned at the keynote. Got to Apple's Mac OS 9 page [] and see for yourselves!

Supreme Lord High Commander of the Interstellar Task Force for the Eradication of Stupidity

Re:Give it a rest (1)

elmegil (12001) | more than 13 years ago | (#519692)

Yah, it's so easy to look around in an FPS game using keyboard strokes. NOT. Some of us NEEED our three buttons to frag our opponents!

Re:Give it a rest (1)

willy_me (212994) | more than 13 years ago | (#519693)

OSX support HID devices so all of your USB multibutton mice with scroll wheels will work fine, I know mine does. The single button is for those "simple" users who don't want to learn about computers and keep on making the "what button do I press" mistake with Windows. And for your information, these people are the majority.

As it is often said, "keep it simple stupid" - this is exactly whay Apple is doing for their customers. (Mind you, a BTO option would be a nice.)


Re:Mac OS 9.1 (1)

Buran (150348) | more than 13 years ago | (#519694)

I've been trying. The bloody thing doesn't work, and I need to see if this fixes an ethernet G4 in the G4 I'm typing this on. Apple needs to get their heads out of the sand and actually allow you to download the software they spent the entire morning hyping. Mirrors, please.

Re:"Advantages" of three-button mice under Windows (2)

jonfromspace (179394) | more than 13 years ago | (#519695)

1. Seemingly interminable wait while the redundant (albeit proximate) contextual menu loads and (finally) appears.

A long wait? Hmm... you've got some issues... (or your runing win 98/ME/2k with 32 MB of ram)try defragging, or install tweak UI and REMOVE all the usless (to you) functions from the context menu. That will speed it up tons

2. Scrolling. Also redundant and not terribly accurate either. I never use it.

This is just silly. the scroll wheel is great, especially for Web browsing. You can also set the # of lines you wish to scroll in the Control Panel. This should solve the accuracy problem.

C'mon, a 1 button mouse is not very usefull. Even most Mac Zealots will agree that Apple needs a better mouse.

um.. I done, you can stop reading...

Re:Glad to be a Mac user...not glad to be poor. (2)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 13 years ago | (#519696)

I'm writing this on my wife's iMac...if you want a cheap machine that does a lot for the money, the iMac is still the bomb.

OK, I too lust for a cube instead of my G4, but then I take a cold shower and the feeling passes.

One thing people should keep in mind when they discuss prices of Macs is that it's always inaccurate to compare with Windoze boxes. With a Mac, you're always getting 24-bit color, sound input and output, and, of course, the world's best and most mature GUI. Nearly all Macs come with video input (used to be those coax connector thingamies, now I guess it's a different interface). All this was true back when a "multimedia" PC meant that it had a CD-ROM drive and 8-bit color. The cheapest PCs are still the ones that lack all these extras.
The Assayer [] - free-information book reviews

Re:Faster Apples (1)

Azreaphel (176603) | more than 13 years ago | (#519697)

I used to be a Mac user(now I write code for the Dark Side), and am still a big suporter. The thing you have to realize, is that MHz means SQUAT. They are entirely different chip desings, a 500Mhz G4 easily out-performs a 700-800MHz PIII.

Right on (1)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 13 years ago | (#519709)

More than one mouse button is a joke. The people at MS who decided to design their GUI around a many-button mouse were the same losers who gave Word the talking paperclip and the default set of control panels that looks like the cockpit of a fighter jet.
The Assayer [] - free-information book reviews

bzzt, still need DeCSS (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#519711)

sorry, but the portion of the disc where the encryption keys are stored is pre-burned with zeros on the DVD-R blanks. You have to decrypt with DeCSS or something similar and then burn the unencrypted data.

So? (1)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 13 years ago | (#519713)

"This seems to follow their new "killer apps" strategy."

Good for them. Now how about the /. guys stop reguritating all of Apple's marketing hype until they start selling machines that will not cost more than most people are willing to pay.

I am all for Apple, and they certainly have Microsoft beat when it comes to innovation, but until they cut the shit and let me buy a machine straight up without a bunch of silly multimedia software that I have no use for, at a reasonable price, I am sticking with AMD.

They are optional. (2)

Johnny Mnemonic (176043) | more than 13 years ago | (#519714)

The 533s have a second processor option--add one for $300, at the Apple Store. That makes a DP 533=$2499, with all the other goodies, like a 133Mhz bus, CD-R/W, iMusic, and iMovie.

Get a mouse (1)

WiseWeasel (92224) | more than 13 years ago | (#519715)

So you get a USB mouse with as many buttons as you need (or get a trackball for space concerns). You can't do any serious mousing with a trackpad anyways. That's what everyone else does...

Backtracking... (2)

um... Lucas (13147) | more than 13 years ago | (#519717)

Seems they've dropped their line about multiprocessors, since the only model that ships with them is the 533 MHz model. I can't seem to find any information on if they include an empty socket or not for the other configurations... I'd hope so, because honestly, it seems cheaper if they'ed just manufacture all G4 motherboards with two sockets rather than having to have two separate lines of motherboards in their assembling plants...

Past that, though... I want one. Either a powerbook G4, or powermac G4... If it turns out to be the powerbook, though, i'll advise myself to hold off a few month, lest any kinks arise...

Re:AGP 4X and nVidia GFX (1)

Afrosheen (42464) | more than 13 years ago | (#519718)

You post, you get to moderate.

Re:Combo CDRW/DVD-R "SuperDrive" (1)

cpt kangarooski (3773) | more than 13 years ago | (#519719)

Steve was pointing out (and demonstrated) putting a burned DVD into a generic standalone player.

And since it'll accept any QT file, it ought to be easy to rip dvd movies. *BUT* who can say how well the authoring software will cope with fancy menus, anamorphic video, alternate sound and text tracks, etc.

If I had the cash, I'd be willing to take a chance on it though.

Re:Looks like the DVD-CCA's worst nightmare (5)

iso (87585) | more than 13 years ago | (#519720)

You can do a track by track clone of a DVD and get a perfect copy if you have a DVD player and burner in the same system.

well no, not exactly. by the looks of things, i'm not really sure there is a way to do a track-by-track copy of a DVD. as far as i know there's no "ripping" option to make an image of a DVD, and from what i've seen, there's no "burn from image" option on these new Macs.

while it would be possible to "rip" the video stream and re-encode it to a new DVD, you'd be without the DVD menu, or any of the extras that ship on DVDs these days. not to mention the fact that this would be an extremely long procedure, and not worth it to most people.

i imagine the real "danger" would be from people downloading DiV/Xs from the net, converting them to Quicktime, and then burning them to iDVD. still not ideal, as you only get the "bare movie," but probably good enough for most casual pirates.

still, unless i'm reading all of this wrong, there's no way to make bit-for-bit copies of DVDs using this drive. this could all change in the future however, as it seems that the only thing holding it back is the availability of proper software.

a couple of things: it should be noted that Apple will be selling blank DVD media (that will play in commercial players) for $10/each. that's amazing. secondly, i really hope it's possible to burn region-free DVDs. i don't want region coding infecting the movies i create.

- j

Re:An improvement. (1)

cpt kangarooski (3773) | more than 13 years ago | (#519721)

Oh, I don't know - I liked the iPuck very much. True, you couldn't rest your hand on it, but the roller was effectively farther towards the front of the mouse. (where it belongs)

Currently I'm using the new buttonless mouse. The damn sensor is too far back (it ought to be trivially easy to have it at the front tip, those dorks) but I don't have to worry about sliding my mousepad all over, or getting cruft into it.

As always though, the thing isn't chained to the computer. People should carefully investigate mice, keyboards and monitors and choose for comfort; after all, those are the parts of the computer that you use the most.

Re:Question about Apple's MPEG-2 CODEC (3)

iso (87585) | more than 13 years ago | (#519722)

Perhaps they're even faster than Apple's 2:1 claim? Curious.

possibly, but the Apple encoder is highly Altivec enhanced. after you get through all the Marketing hype surrounding Apple products, Altivec is still a very impressive technology (albeit a Motorola technology, not Apple).

remember, the G4 completely wipes the floor with a Pentium 4 ... when the applications are Altivec enhanced. this is one of those cases where i imagine the G4 really would outperform a top-of-the-line Pentium, as something like encoding MPEG-2 is pretty much what Altivec is designed for.

- j

Re:"Advantages" of three-button mice under Windows (1)

Eponymous, Showered (73818) | more than 13 years ago | (#519723)

In a highly scientific test, I measured the speed that my right-click menu comes up running netscape 4.75 on this PIII/733: Goddamn fast. So fast, it happens before I finish pushing the button all the way down. You must be running Windows 3.1 on a 486, G.

Re:More info (1)

tak amalak (55584) | more than 13 years ago | (#519724)

Also, no DVD with the systems that only have CD-RW. That could be considered a minus but the lus of having a CD-RW outweighs it. Also, you get an extra 64bit PCI slot with AGP-4 but you get one less DIMM slot (3 total). It's all about trade offs. One other thing I noticed is the motherboard PCB and heatsink is much smaller than before.

Things that stayed the same:

Gb Ethernet (expected)

U-DMA ATA/66 (I was surprised by this one)


Seriously (1)

WiseWeasel (92224) | more than 13 years ago | (#519725)

All their software download servers are down, I can't get iTunes or OS9.1 . . .

Any news on nVidia after-market? (1)

MattHaffner (101554) | more than 13 years ago | (#519726)

I've got a B&W G3 with the stock R128 and a V3 card in it now. I'd love to replace both with a PCI Geforce2 w/ DVD. Any news from the expo about nVidia or their remarketers selling cards outside of the box?


Troll??? (2)

Electric Angst (138229) | more than 13 years ago | (#519727)

Why in the world would this me marked as a troll? Was it because I spely 'skills' with a 'z'?

Ah well, so much for a sense of humor...


Re:OSX updates buried in the gee-whiz hardware new (2)

tono (38883) | more than 13 years ago | (#519728)

The dock has always been resizable and you could always turn on multiple windows in the OS X finder, although why you would want to is beyond me.

Re:Attention, Everyone! (1)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 13 years ago | (#519740)

"Now, once you've selected every possible option, and loaded this potentially-yours Apple with all the goodies that make these machines so great, look at the price."

You have that right. The last time I put together an Apple machine I would consider worth buying, it was over 2000 USD more than I spent on my ultra-high end PC.

Re:Looks like the DVD-CCA's worst nightmare (3)

Erasmus Darwin (183180) | more than 13 years ago | (#519744)

With an affordable DVD burner, you don't even need DeCSS.

First, that doesn't address the issue of region coding. A byte-for-byte copy of a disk from another region is going to be just as unplayable in a standard, region-based player.

Second, I believe that burned DVDs have a lower capacity than commercially pressed DVDs. According to the first hit [] on "DVD burner" in google, it appears that the DVD-R specs are just for burning a single-side/single-layer, giving 4.7 gigs of storage. Certainly worth drooling over, but not enough for massive movie piracy.

Re:Faster Apples (5)

Bearpaw (13080) | more than 13 years ago | (#519745)

I'm not an Apple user, but it's nice to see Apple finally getting the G4 a bit more upto par with AMD/Intel speeds (after all Joe Average buys more often than not on the machines MHZ value). Hopefully this will give AMD and Intel a bit more competition and lower prices even further.

That'll only happen if Apple can get it through Joe Average's thick skull that actual performance is only partly a function of MHz. This might be a little easier than it would have been if Intel hadn't shot itself in the foot with the Pentium-4.

(No offence meant to anyone out there named Joe Average.)

Re:If only... (1)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 13 years ago | (#519747)

There already is 3 button emulation for the 1 button mouse. It is just a pain in the arse. On a desktop though you can put a trackball on it and be happy.

Re:bzzt, still need DeCSS (1)

zhensel (228891) | more than 13 years ago | (#519749)

And how long until some enterprising player in the blank industry decides not to pre-burn that section of the disc? Can you say instant 1000% jump in sales :) ... that is unless pioneer or someone patented and licensed out the process to make blanks.

Re:Faster Apples (1)

gudacmacattacq (244549) | more than 13 years ago | (#519751)

You dont need 1.2 Ghz to surf the web or use MSWerd. I mean the fastest AS/400 I have worked on only ran at 350Mhz. I that maching was used to process 10's or millions of telecom bills in 12-hour spans. Its not a race to beat the clock. Its a race to design a better OS and a pure HW line.

So what about the encryption keys .... (1)

taniwha (70410) | more than 13 years ago | (#519752)

So the superdrive lets YOU create DVDs .... anyone know how they do that? are some of the DVD 'secret's compromised by this? :-)

You call this responsible buying? (1)

Bonker (243350) | more than 13 years ago | (#519753)

Having worked in a Mac-friendly environment for quite a while, I have to say that saying that Steve is a wacko and then saying that you like the way his products turn out is a little irresponsible.

For the last several years, Apple has made several blunders, usually as much at their customer's expense as their own. Many of these 'blunders' were marketing or pricing attempts that are aimed directly at asserting Apple's control over the Macintosh market. First and foremost of these in my mind is Apple's rather ruthless elimination of the Apple Clones. This is a direct result of Job's 'Militant' and 'Psychotic' nature. As much as I like MacOS and as much as I'd truly *like* to have an iBook or a new G4 server, I will not spend my hardware money to support a company that engages in these sorts of business practices. (MS is even worse, but I don't have to buy un-upgradeable hardware from Redmond.)

Re:No talk of OS X as server (1)

softweyr (2380) | more than 13 years ago | (#519754)

I didn't notice any mention of the underlying FreeBSD based server achitecture during the broadcast today on TechTV. I do wonder how much server will remain behind the client-centric GUI. Will this be something to replace our Linux/XFree setup?

It's all still in there. Jordan K. Hubbard was recently interviewed and commented how sublimed it was to see GNU Emacs running on a Mac. Apache builds and installs -- I think it's included in the Public Beta. XF86 4.02 compiles on Darwin, the Open Source version of the operating system (minus the stunning Aqua user interface).

As OS X gets out and forms more of a developer community, bring over UNIX applications from FreeBSD (and Linux) will advance. Imagine an inexpensive, reliable computer like the iMac with the lovely GUI for family members and FreeBSD's 4500+ UNIX applications, stellar networking, and a reliable OS under the hood.

I already got an iMac for my father, maybe it's time to get me one too.

yeah, but didn't he cave to amazon (1)

protein folder (228881) | more than 13 years ago | (#519755)

for the lame-ass one-click shopping patent?


The Clock is Back (2)

SteveM (11242) | more than 13 years ago | (#519756)

The picture here [] shows the clock in the menu bar.

Steve M

3 buttons? It looks like its got only 1! (1)

CritterNYC (190163) | more than 13 years ago | (#519757)

Look at the pictures on the website. In particular the DVD shot and the Quicktime VR image. One big, honkin button underneath the touch pad.

Stupid click-and-hold context menus.

the thing about Mac mice (1)

connorbd (151811) | more than 13 years ago | (#519758)

Actually, I can't speak much for OS X, but since OS 8 the Mac has been a de facto 2-button system. You can still get by with one button, and most apps don't really take advantage of it, but one of the first things I did when I got OS 8 was to toss my Apple mouse and buy a MacAlly 2-button (still in use two CPUs later). I am in no great rush to get a USB card so I can use one of the new Apple mice; they're one of the nicest and most incredibly stylish mice I've ever seen (and I have a soft spot for the early "bar-of-soap" ADB mice -- still use one on my SE/30), but they're simply flat-out wrong for the post-7.x MacOS.

When I do get a new Mac, it will be with great regret that I toss the optical mouse ($60 down the drain if you buy it new, y'know :-( ) and replace it with another MacAlly (no Intellimouse for me; too damn big on top of being an M$ product), but the MacOS is not a one-button system and hasn't been for something like four years now.


Re:Give it a rest (1)

mrfiddlehead (129279) | more than 13 years ago | (#519759)

Many people in Apple's target market aren't suited to 2+ button mice. Its not really a valid criticism -- Apple's serving Apple customers.

Which is just another dumbfuck reason why Apple is doomed, regardless of the flurry of activity that follows Jobs periodic announcements.

I know dozens of previous apple users who just got fed up waiting for something to happen at apple. Now they've discovered, because they aren't idiots, that they can be just as productive in a Windoze environment or Linux/FreeBSD/etc.


new os x server. (3)

gagganator (223646) | more than 13 years ago | (#519760)

it would seem they have silently released a new version of os x server that is the same rev as mac os x

see this [] page

Re:"Advantages" of three-button mice under Unix... (2)

styopa (58097) | more than 13 years ago | (#519761)

1) A second clipboard.

For those of us who use Unix an Linux with mice that have three, or more, buttons, the third button is very useful. Just highlight something then middle click and it pastes. That on top of the, what is now standard in GUIs, ^C (or ^X) and ^V you have two clipboards. It can become very useful very quickly.

Also if you use Enlightenment then each of the three buttons displays a different menu, each equally useful.

Frankly, I have ideas for what the fourth button on my Logitec Mouseman+ should do but I just don't have the skill to implement it, yet.

Although quite a bit can be done with one mouse button I would rather just right click on something to bring up a menu rather than click, hold, and then drag in order to get the same menu with just one button. To each his/her own though.
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