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Dreamcast (Finally) Goes Broadband

timothy posted more than 13 years ago | from the around-sixty-smackers dept.

Games 135

Thornburg writes: "The Dreamcast Broadband adapter is finally available for sale directly from Sega's online store. I got the story from Console Wire, here." So the next time you hear someone complain about how the Internet isn't how it used to be and Why Back In The Day Sonny We Didn't Have "Keyboards," you can tell him how you "use your existing Ethernet network, DSL or Cable modem services for smooth, low-ping gameplay."

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135 comments

Re:What about NAT? (1)

journeyman101 (204743) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860622)

I cant believe you didnt use the word "gay" in your analogy and how it evolved from happy to meaning homosexual.

From webopedia.com-- Broadband A type of data transmission in which a single medium (wire) can carry several channels at once. Cable TV, for example, uses broadband transmission. In contrast, baseband transmission allows only one signal at a time. Most communications between computers, including the majority of local-area networks, use baseband communications. An exception is B-ISDN networks, which employ broadband transmission.

Re:Ping obsolete? (2)

slim (1652) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860623)

Don't worry - you'll still need ping to verify your routing, test your interfaces, that kind of thing. You can leave your 'Story about Ping' on your O'Reilly shelf...
--

Re:Phantasy Star Online... (2)

mike260 (224212) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860624)

If you haven't played it online, you haven't played it at all. I was starting to get a little disappointed with it until I got it online - trust me, it's a whole new kettle of fish.
www.gamefaqs.com have detailed instructions on how to get the Japanese version online (on the PSO messageboard)

I just can't wait to see how it handles lag and dead reckoning
Pretty well. The game is designed to hide it, so it rarely becomes visible and almost never affects gameplay significantly.

I guess the biggest hurdle now is getting the US servers online
They're already there (and rather busy)

Re:Now for some life-sucking fun! (1)

gwjc (181552) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860625)

Yeah it reminds me of my favorite Steve Vai (the virtuoso guitarist) quote: "If they had Nintendo when I was a kid, I'd probably be a great Nintendo player now instead."

Re:Oh boy (2)

the Man in Black (102634) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860626)

What's funny to me is, people who grew up on PC first-person shooters (Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, etc.) agree resoundingly that the mouse+keyboard combination is the only way to play an FPS. However...

...people that grew up playing console games say that a controller is the only way to play an FPS (GoldenEye, Timesplitters, Perfect Dark).

Case in point: I just recently got a friend of mine into playing PC FPS (Unreal Tournament, Soldier of Fortune). He loves it, and he's (annoyingly) good at it...his only complaint is having to reach all the way over to hell-and-be-gone just to switch weapons, or jump, or crouch. I'd never thought of it that way, because I'd ALWAYS played it that way (anyone remember when Duke Nukem 3D (IIRC) brought 'jump' and 'crouch' to FPS?).

The point is, simply, that it's personal preference. A skilled console player I'm sure would be excellent comp for a skilled PC player. I'll see you guys on the Net.

P.S.-->The only game (other than flight sims) where I've seen keyboard skill REALLY make a difference is Starcraft. It's SCARY watching a skilled keyboardist play....sheesh.

--Just Another Pimp A$$ Perl Hacker

DC broadband isnt even needed yet... (1)

tilted (256941) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860627)

ive had a DC for 3 to 4 months now. ive tried quite a few games online (nba2k, nfl2k, some racing games, etc) and have never had a problem with lag or any of the usual problems associated with PC gaming on a dialup connection. all this and i max at 28800 with the dreamcast. i would definetely hold off on this until there is some need for it. (unless your one of the rare ones who uses the DC for internet access and email) -- im sorry. peace.

Re:Why was this taken off the front page? (1)

MrP- (45616) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860628)

actually the article should appear later, there is a bug in slashcode i guess that sometimes lists a story that wasnt meant to be posted yet, it was queued..... although maybe im wrong cause ive never seen or used slashdcode, but ive heard other say this so ill act smart and say it too :)

Yay, now what the heck will I play? (1)

otomo_1001 (22925) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860629)

And now, the moment all you Dreamcast owners have been waiting for (me included),

-in a spanish announcer's voice-

El Fasto Brrrrrooooooaaadbaaaand. -roll the r's-

Let's get ready to Rumble. :)

But honestly, what really good online game that the dreamcast has that this will go good with? Q3A yes, but let's try something a bit more, umm not pc derived, but original game console multiplayer. Sadly I expect few (if any) original multiplayer games for the Dreamcast for awhile anyway.

And if anyone says Chu-Chu Rocket, oooh I'll lose it. How anyone (not from Japan) could like it is beyond my comprehension.

And now for score 1 redundant.

You look like you need a monkey.

--Another quote from No One Lives Forever (game, not movie)

Not as good as it sounds (3)

DoorFrame (22108) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860630)


According to both the official site [sega.com] and this ConsoleWire.com [consolewire.com] site, games need to explicity acknowledge broadband access as opposed to a standard modem so not all games will work.

What were they thinking with this? They've been developing this adapter for long enough (how long has it been since they announced it was in development?) that they should have created all their games with the future in mind. What's the point of creating great games with internet access, if you intentionally leave out any sort of high speed upgradeability.

There's no excuse for not planning for the future, and this is what Sega has done. If this system flops before the XBox and the PS2 and the GameCube, then good. They were slow and they didn't look forward far enough... killer flaws in the video game world.

Re:100-odd posts and nobody has noticed... (2)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860631)

The difference is, it hadn't been released for sale yet. Now you can actually go buy it. -- Dr. Eldarion --

Re:Now for some life-sucking fun! (1)

gwjc (181552) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860632)

Ha! ya I don't acutally listen to him either. Regardless, he is talented and it's better than having the Backstreet Boys (Nintendo generation) in your ears.

Re:What about NAT? (2)

DickBreath (207180) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860633)

Quake III and Diablo II both work really well.

Probably because that's what the Cisco engineers use to debug.

Debug. Yeah, that's it!

Yes, boss, I'm working hard. I'm debugging a feature in our router to direct UDP packets to the right place.

great!! (3)

Skeptopotamus (303674) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860634)

Now Dreamcast owners can experience, first hand, the joy of being told they '4r3 4ll p1ng, n0 skiLlz!!! FuX0ring LPB!@# Eye 0Wn j00 on L4N!!!"

Re:What about NAT? (2)

Fjord (99230) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860635)

He was saying NAT would be incompatable with UDP based games.

I probably should have been more clear. My firewall allows me to forward both TCP and UDP ports. This is how I got Net2Phone working. I can even forward TCP port X and UDP port X to two different places (which means you don't have to tie up the TCP port that you are using for a UDP game). I'm sure that linux firewalls will allow this too.

Fuck Linux or NetBSD (1)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860636)

Anyone for a highspeed NFL2K1 game? :) Hacking is a lot easier when you put it off with playing games.

Re:Not as good as it sounds (1)

LiENUS (207736) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860637)

First company to produce a modem for a console (with the Saturn NetLink) Actually untrue the sega genesis had xband which was a modem that would allow 2 players over dialup course you could only use the xband service not your existing isp.

Re:100-odd posts and nobody has noticed... (1)

LiENUS (207736) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860638)

Uhh no. They were taking pre-orders then now there selling them for real.

Which games support it? (1)

ZandramasX (38901) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860639)

They have an ominous statement in the description saying "not compatible with all games, check the game package". I suspect it doesn't work with NFL2k1 or NBA2k1 (or Chu Chu Rocket), but I can't be sure. Anyone know?

ZandramasX

think of what this means for the netbsd port! (1)

brad2600 (170333) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860640)

between this and the netbsd port to dreamcast, we're a hell of a lot closer to having a beowulf cluster of these things...

im sure someone will find a way to use these things as firewalls, and when they do, i absolutely need one...

.brad


Drink more tea
organicgreenteas.com [organicgreenteas.com]

Re:Which games support it? (1)

joshsisk (161347) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860641)

Which really isn't a big deal... Considering the only three games that are out that support online play (at least as of last time I hit CompUSA) are NFL2K1, Chu Chu Rocket and Q3A... And Q3A supports broadband. I'm sure they will come out with a bb-enabled version of NFL2K1 soon enough... and Chu Chu Rocket? I don't think that game really requires high ping...

Josh Sisk

Re:Hum... (1)

Megahurts (215296) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860642)

my guess by the size of the modem (somewhat small) is that it's a soft modem. The software running for the HSP that came with my last premade machine would often crash after 10-20 minutes of use, after which the machine needed to reboot. (needless to say, it wasn't long before I got a real modem and eventually broadband cable)

---

Re:What about NAT? (1)

Jace of Fuse! (72042) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860643)

My Cisco 804 does pretty good about figuring out which system to forward UDP packets to, but only in some applications.

Quake III and Diablo II both work really well.



-=-

Re:think of what this means for the netbsd port! (2)

zakureth (28956) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860644)

Well... it does have a serial port. You could hook up an external modem up to that, hook the ethernet port up to your LAN, and have a dialup firewall server.

Wonder if they can port Gibraltar (that firewall on a single CD) to this. Add in some kind of VMU support and you can use that for configuration storage, like the floppy disk used in the current x86 version. ;)

Re:Why was this taken off the front page? (1)

Rob from RPI (4309) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860646)

Well, if that is true, why they hell is Hemos 'queue'ing stories? Aren't we good enough to get the stories straight away? Are we on a diet? I mean, it's pretty obvious that things are often posted without even the slightest bit of checking, ref the 'Apple Sues FreeType' post of a week or so ago... The link referenced in the published story had no relation to it, and even a 1/4 second browse of the title of the article on lwn would have verified it. Perhaps there's an 'idiot check' delay? I don't know.
Another newdot.org suggestion (the domain is available, someone get to it): let people read pending posts. Only let registered people submit stories, but anon accounts can only post, say, 5 a day. If an account trolls the submission queue, disable it from further submissions.

Comics:
Sluggy.com [sluggy.com] - Poing!

OMG (1)

ResQuad (243184) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860647)

Yea, there have already been hacks etc for it. Some of you people are really spoiled. Its sad to think that we b#tch about not having broad band, and some people would DIE for the net PERIOD.

Re:Hum... (1)

Neverrtfm (303783) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860649)

"#1: How does the new broadband modem really change this? Yeah I know now the IP is no longer changing a la dialup, but still dreamcasts are online as before, I don't see why DoS attacks would be different." It seems to me that the NetBSD port makes this(or something like this) a much more likely prospect to be hacked out by somebody. It could be a significant tool to make that possible.

oh shut up (1)

MrP- (45616) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860650)

sega doesnt design there games, most games are 3rd party, some companies design em good, quake3 supports the broadband adapter, NFL2k13CF73D945 or whatever it's called does not, go complain to the coders of that game. Hell, PS2 doesn't even have a modem, sony is thinking behind, and it's too late for it to flop, its not a new system, it cant compete with xbox and gamecube (screw ps2), they are next generation consoles..... and even with that said, i still love my dreamcast, it has the best games out right now, and has awesome graphics (see shenmue, and sonic adventure 2 when its released)...

Re:Which games support it? (1)

joshsisk (161347) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860651)

Games can be written either in CE or on a propietary, much more memory effiecent SegaOS. Most games, as you might imagine, are written in the SegaOS. Virtually every game written in CE is a quickie PC port with terrible framerates... Or game types that aren't very strenous in terms of graphics (Worms Armegeddon is the only game I have that runs on CE)

Josh Sisk

Re:Oh boy (1)

joshsisk (161347) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860652)

only complaint is having to reach all the way over to hell-and-be-gone just to switch weapons, or jump, or crouch.

Huh? First of all, if you play with one hand on the keyboard, one on the mouse, it should be just a simple finger motion to jump or crouch.... Secondly, most newer games have weapon switching bound to the mouse wheel... Which is pretty convienant.

Josh Sisk

Web browser (1)

minkeyboodle (217651) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860653)

So, I'm guessing this thing won't work with the Dreamcast web browser, either. Gee, and I was hoping for my own easy WebTV (tm) solution.

Re:Hum... (1)

joshsisk (161347) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860654)

However, perhaps ethernet is better supported by the underlying WinCE?

DCs can run of either WindowsCE or SegaOS. If they run off CE, I believe they have to load the OS off of a disc... it's not, to my knowledge, embedded.

Josh Sisk

Re:sega network? (1)

joshsisk (161347) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860655)

I can only think of 3 games with online play (modem or broadband)... NFL2K1, Q3A and Chu Chu Rocket... I believe that many are suppossed to come out this year, though.

Josh Sisk

Re:Redundant answer if I ever saw one... (1)

Nullsmack (189619) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860656)

and now for the totally unnesicery (and misspelled) reply..

Can you imagine a beowulf cluster of these?

How about a beowulf cluster of redundant answers?

How about a beowulf cluster of anonymous cowards posting whatifs about beowulf clusters.
-since when did 'MTV' stand for Real World Television instead of MUSIC television?

chuchu rocket (2)

juuri (7678) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860661)

sorry but i just had to reply to this, have you actually played chuchu rocket with a group of four people? this game is party crack. girls love it. non games people love it. everyone loves it! its the best multiplayer at a single console crack to come along since bomberman. the only negative is the pacing; it can be way too fast for some people.

Re:Not as good as it sounds (1)

Jace of Fuse! (72042) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860662)

"...and that's what Sega has done."

In no way should Sega be held responsible for any lack of future planning on the part of their 3rd Party software developers.

UNLESS the 3rd Party Game-Devs had absolutely NO way of knowing how to support the upcoming Brandband Adapter because Sega wouldn't provide the information. If THAT'S the case, then yes, it is Sega's fault.

But seeing as how Quake 3 was released before the adapater, I'm guessing most developers were well aware and just didn't care. And of course being out for the quick buck, they didn't care to support unavailable hardware, and loved the idea of selling a special version with ethernet support AFTER it's release. That's how the video game companies work these days. Bastards.

-=-

Re:Oh boy (1)

MrP- (45616) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860663)

2.0 has sort of a media player... an MP3 player, only you are limited to ::checks email from sega:: 3mb... it is stored in memory until you close the window... now they just need to release the zip drive accessory.

Misinformation (3)

drdink (77) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860664)

This story is great and all, but it is a bit misinforming. First off, the title should be Sega of America Ships Broadband. The Broadband adapter has been available for months in Japan. Secondly, before you slap a quick title on like that, you need to consider that development is done in Japan, and just because something isn't out in the States yet does not mean it isn't for sale anywhere.

All that aside, go get your NIC here [sega.com], grab yourself a copy of Quake III: Arena [sega.com] and POD Speedzone [sega.com]. You'll be on your way to blowing up some ass and speeding down the tracks at broadband speeds. Now that is how network play on consoles was supposed to be.

Re:Which games support it? (3)

iCEBaLM (34905) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860665)

What would be really cool is if the DC Quake3 could play on standard Q3 servers along side its computer cousins.

-- iCEBaLM

Re:DC broadband isnt even needed yet... (1)

drdink (77) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860673)

...or one of the people who have no dialup access (in which case you're semi-screwed anyway since older games don't support the NIC).

Re:Direct link: (1)

drwiii (434) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860674)

Too bad games need to explicitly support it, so I can't download new tags for Jet Grind Radio without swapping out the NIC for a modem

Then you should download the JSR tag to end all tags [min.net].

Re:Which games support it? (1)

MrP- (45616) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860675)

it can... with a patch, which, as far as i know, isnt available yet... reason: pc users would kill most dc users, need time to practice on the DC so we can be ready :)

Re:Hum... (1)

Bellwether (12891) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860676)

Well, the internal IP stack won't change unless it was embedded in the modem (which I kind of doubt.) However, perhaps ethernet is better supported by the underlying WinCE?

On your #2 though, if you're not doing NAT, your dreamcast would be a targetable host though. Sure, it would be going through your [cable/dsl] modem, but that's just effectively a router.

Re:Direct link: (1)

Bojay Iverson (261262) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860677)

Surely you could use the broadband browser and download the tags to your VMU that way(hold down B,Y or X and press A, I think)? After all, isn't the internet mode of JSR a browser?

Re:Low ping? (1)

Rostis (797) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860678)

But that also includes the connection itself. And how the packets will be routed. Thing is, if I would to play with dialup with someone on the same net, also using dialup with modem, that could have better ping than me using a sucky cable modem with an ISP with a really bad backbone playing with that guy on the dialup.

you can tell him how you "use your existing Ethernet network, DSL or Cable modem services for smooth, low-ping gameplay"

Sure the adapter itself is probably faster than a dialup modem.. to the closest router, and there's noone there to play with.

IF the game requires high bandwidth, ping wouldn't be good on a slow modem, then again, the ping wouldn't be the only problem.

My ping was better with ISDN than on my ADSL connection.

Re:Broaband? (1)

Mavic'A (231627) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860679)

Broaband, or correctly spelled Brabant is a province of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. In dialect it's pronounced as Broabant or Braobant. :)

100-odd posts and nobody has noticed... (1)

mattbee (17533) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860680)

That this story was on the front page on over two weeks ago [slashdot.org]. I think the memory of the average Slashdot reader must be decreasing; or was it just that none of its readership was sad enough to be reading Slashdot on Boxing day? Nah, don't pull my leg, you're all at least as sad as me :-)

Re:Which games support it? (1)

mESSDan (302670) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860681)

Not really, unless the person who's playing on their DC has the DC keyboard / mouse.

The keyboard / mouse combination is far superior to the DC's controller for Q3 online play, it is very obvious when you're on sega.net who has a keyboard and mouse and who is using the controller, because the person using the keyboard / mouse is almost always winning, and not constantly staring up at the sky or at the ground like those with the controller.

Re:think of what this means for the netbsd port! (2)

Cuthalion (65550) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860682)

You COULD have a firewall with only one ethernet jack. Just give the dreamcast an internal and external IP, all the other computers internal IPs, and plug everything you can find with an RJ45 jack into the same fully switched hub.


Re:missing the connection here (1)

Rostis (797) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860693)

And what would ping have to do with broadband? Not much...

Low ping? (1)

Rostis (797) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860694)

And what exactly has "low-ping gameplay" to do with broadband? We measure in bandwidth, not the speed of one packet. My ping won't get better to a guy in the US just because I have broadband, but I could get better bandwidth.

Re:What about NAT? (1)

meff (170550) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860696)

Many games that work with linux now initiate the port on the client side first (send through it and start to recieve) so that the masq server knows where to send the packets, so I don't think you will have any problems..

Re:Hum... (3)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860697)

Carmack said they actually rewrote a custom stack for Quake III Arena for Dreamcast. Apparently the one that shipped with the machine wasn't up to his standards.

Re:Phantasy Star Online... (2)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860698)

It's coming out in a few months, and every review I've read for it has called it "revolutionary". Famitsu (a venerable Japanese gaming mag that's notorious for giving out harsh reviews) gave it a total score of 37 out of 40. Apparently anything above 35 is incredible.

Re:DC broadband isnt even needed yet... (2)

revin (191651) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860699)

Here in Europe cable access is a lot cheaper than keeping your phoneline busy for hours. For my cable access I papy a fix amount per month, my phoneline is payed per second I use it. SO the adaptor will be a good investment.

Re:Low ping? (2)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860700)

Actually, you could get better ping because ping isn't just a measure of the speed between 2 computers, but the speed by which 2 computers process the information between these distances. Example: the Dreamcast uses a software dialup modem. In theory, this may slow down pings in relation to the software.

The broadband adapter, as far as I know, runs solely in hardware.

Re:sega network? (1)

zoftie (195518) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860701)

So why only 3 games support it?
I'm pretty sure there are more than 3 games
that take advantage of SEGAnet...

Re:What about NAT? (1)

revin (191651) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860703)

Connectionless doesn't mean that your network address translating can't find out the origin and destination for the packets. NAT is just the forwarder, it can also forward UDP packets. It can only become a problem when you want to put firewalling rules on that traffic. But if you put a simple rule that for your Dreamcast all packets should freely move theres no game per game configuration needed. Except your paranoiac your dreamcast gets hacked ;-)

Re:Not as good as it sounds (5)

slim (1652) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860704)

There's no excuse for not planning for the future, and this is what Sega has done. If this system flops before the XBox and the PS2 and the GameCube, then good. They were slow and they didn't look forward far enough... killer flaws in the video game world.

First company to produce a modem for a console (with the Saturn NetLink); first console with online functions as standard (Dreamcast with its built-in modem); first console with broadband -- and you're saying Sega are slow? I guess you're going to argue next that PS2 was quick to market (coming a year later than Dreamcast, with online functioned vaguely promised for some time in the coming year), or that XBox and GameCube show better timeliness (XBox's launch date is bound to slip again, while GameCube doesn't even *have* a launch date AFAIK).
--

Re:Low ping? (1)

-tji (139690) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860705)

Low Ping time is just another way of saying lower latency. And, YES, it is true.

The ping/latency/round-trip time is the sum total of how long it takes to cross each hop in your network path and back.

If your modem sends 28,800 bits per second ( = 3600 Bytes per second ) you can invert that and say it sends one byte in 1/3600 of a second. So, a 1.5Mbps connection would send the same amount of data much quicker (1/187,500 of a sec.)

Last time I used a 56K modem, I was getting ping times around 130-150ms. With my current DSL service, I ping my ISP's router in 25ms.

In many applications, like voice, video, or gaming, the amount of data being sent is less important than the latency involved in the transmission (i.e. if the data isn't received fast enough, it's useless).

Re:What about NAT? (2)

Surak (18578) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860706)

Aside: I dislike the use of the term "broadband" to apply to fast Net access. Broadband basically means analog, while baseband basically means digital. Cable Modems *are* broadband, but DSL is not. A 56K modem, on the other *is* broadband.

For Quake (PC-based) over NAT, or RealPlayer, both of which use UDP, you need a special kernel module to support it. I'm guessing that for some games, this will be the case...

Re:Fuck Linux or NetBSD (3)

crt (44106) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860707)

It doesn't work with NFL2k1, or several other multiplayer games (but Q3 works). Support has to be built in by the developer.

Wider Pipes, Larger Floods (1)

juliao (219156) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860710)

broadband, huh?
i guess that means we can SYN flood them a lot more...
at last we get to see exactly how fast Dreamcasts are... <evil grin/>
-----

missing the connection here (1)

moonbuzz (303747) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860713)

I fail to see how the Sega broadband has to do with the usual complaints about how the internet is not what it used to be. The ppl who say that don't really care about low ping gaming, for all they care we can go back to 14.4 modems, as long as we can "preserve the old community feeling"

Oh boy (2)

Rew190 (138940) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860715)

I can't wait to start kicking the asses of all the Dreamcasters when they attempt to beat me at Quake 3 (that's the one that's out for DC, right?) with their little gamepad toy. Mouse and keyboard all the way, baby!

I wonder how much money the casual DC player is going to spend just so they can play games via broadband, though? You can't really download anything on this right? And I don't THINK the DC has any sort of media player for downloading pr0n, which we ALL know is the main reason for broadband.

Re:Phantasy Star Online... (1)

Bill Fuckin' Gates (262364) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860722)

A Japanese gaming magazine? You're saying that we should take advice from these people? [rotten.com] It would seem to me that the average Japanese person's taste [rotten.com] would vary greatly from the average Slashdot readers'... at least, I hope it would.


See you in hell,
Bill Fuckin' Gates®.

Re:think of what this means for the netbsd port! (1)

brad2600 (170333) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860723)

well, what i more meant was some form of hardware hack to the ethernet card to allowo it to function as some form of dual port card. there is also the possibility of making some form of splitter to allow two cards to interface through, which of course the software (NetBSD in this case) has to be able to recognize and deal with properly. to me, this seems like the sort of thing a decent hardware hacker would have a fairly fun time doing. this obviously would cause crazy errors if the person were to try to play games throuhg it, but hey, were talking firewall *grin*.

.brad


Drink more tea
organicgreenteas.com [organicgreenteas.com]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:Which games support it? (2)

MrP- (45616) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860725)

Actually Bill, im a windows user. But since you assumed i'm a linux user i guess ill go to linux and say gates recommended it. thanks bill! :)

nmap (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860726)

Can someone please nmap one of these babies so we can know which hosts on the Net are DC? My guess is that the IP stack will respond identically to the dinky one in Win98.

Re:Wider Pipes, Larger Floods (1)

Bill Fuckin' Gates (262364) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860727)

Actually, Iraq is buying Dreamcasts and PS2s because Saddam is evil, and knows that for every PS2 he buys, some poor American kid will have to go without and be emotionally scarred forevermore. Once all of these fucked up children have grown up, Saddam will publically destroy the horded PS2s, destroying America's infrastructure as millions of adults recall their PS2-less childhoods and commit mass murder/suicides.

So at least we have something to look forward to.


See you in hell,
Bill Fuckin' Gates®.

Re:sega network? (1)

Bellwether (12891) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860728)

Typical ADSL installations that use PPP utilize PPPoe (PPP over Ethernet) which is listed as being supported. They also say that they *do* support DHCP. Now, all I need is for them to make this baby wireless, and I can connect it up to the rest of my 802.11 network! =)

NetBSD (4)

brunes69 (86786) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860729)


Forget the fact that this is awesome for console gamers for the moment, consider the news about a week ago that someone has released a Dreamcast NetBSD ISO. With Broadband, a whole new bunch of possibilities open up (remote boot, remote X Terms) that would make the dreamcast an EXTRMEELY small, powerful, and usefull device, once the correct modules and drivers have been hacked for it.

Re:What about NAT? (1)

tc (93768) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860730)

Aside: I dislike the use of the term "broadband" to apply to fast Net access. Broadband basically means analog, while baseband basically means digital. Cable Modems *are* broadband, but DSL is not. A 56K modem, on the other *is* broadband.

Newsflash: languages evolve.

Just like "awful" no longer means "inspiring awe", broadband means whatever the majority of people think it does - in this case a connection that offers high bandwidth.

No 'real person' would consider a 56K modem to be "broadband", and most people would consider both DSL and cable modems to be perfectly reasonable examples of "broadband". They simple take the de facto definition of the term.

Your nit-picking is not only pedantic, but there is a very practical sense in which it is wrong.

Re:Low ping? (1)

Rostis (797) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860731)

No you can't calculate it like that.

An easy example would be comparing the ping for T1 and E1. T1 is 1.5mbit, E1 is 2mbit.

A T1 has 24 timeslots.
A E1 has 32 timeslots
Each timeslot is 64kbit. (24*64kbit=1.5mbit, 32*64kbit=2mbit)

One single packet can only travel in one timeslot. One packet would have the same latency. Just like a train, you can have 24 or 32 wagons. You won't reach your destination any faster with 32 wagons, but you can get more people to that destination in the same amount of time.

A modem have 130-150ms extra ping to dialup server, because it needs to compress data and make it analog.

You are way off.

Latency and bandwidth has to be separated. Just because your high bandwidth connection gives you good ping doesn't mean that the bandwidth itself is the reason.

My ping to the moon will NOT get better with more bandwidth. It could get a bit better with DSL than modem, but NOT because of the bandwidth to the moon. uh. Ok I'm starting to get offtopic now :)

What about NAT? (5)

Fizgig (16368) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860732)

I don't have any video game systems, but as soon as I have some free time I'll be all over them :)

My question is how well all of these broadband adapters (I guess this is the first) will deal with NAT (IP Masquerade in Linux). It's becoming increasingly popular, with all those hub-router broadband boxes that people are buying. But games tend to use UDP, which has problems with NAT, being connectionless and all. I can't imagine anyone wanting to unplug their computer from the broadband connection and plug their Dreamcast in instead very often, so NAT seems like the best option. Will it all be painful or smooth? Or will it all be on a game-by-game basis?

Why? (1)

MrP- (45616) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860733)

Why are you saying this? As if broadband means dc users will be able to play with PC users... The reason the DC patch isnt available yet for PC Q3 users is because, as you made an example of yourself, the PC users would kick everyones ass. Even with kb and mouse, lots of DC users might not have played it on PC, and it is slightly different, so they need time to learn how to play, I'm not sure when the patch will be out though (or is it?) anyway can't wait because i want to play my friends (only 3 of them at a time, stupid 4 player limit on DC ver :)

Re:What about NAT? (3)

Fjord (99230) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860734)

My NAT router (linksys) allows me to forward ports to chosen IPs in the private network. I have port 80 point to my linux box, for example. I would imagine that these games have standard ports they will use for communication, so you can set up port X to point at your dreamcast. If they are reasonably unused ports, you can just keep the setting that way since you probably only have one dreamcast.

hmm (1)

MrP- (45616) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860735)

I thought sega said it would be supported by all old and new games... you sure it wont work with JGR? Oh well no problem for me, I don't have broadband :(

Re:Which games support it? (1)

MrP- (45616) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860736)

It should work with the NFL/NBA games, not sure about chu chu, definatly quake3, and the upcoming/out(?) half life and unreal tournament, and probably any new game that works with the net... now i just need broadband, argh

Hum... (3)

JFMulder (59706) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860737)

I wonder is we could launch a DoS attack on a DreamCast and bring it down to it's knee's. :-)

sega network? (1)

zoftie (195518) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860738)

Are the plans for extending network SEGAnet have
been canceled? It is quick and smart move,
One question, would they develop a software
upgrade for the console so I can connect
to their SEGAnet via an ethernet.
Also as an oversight, I do not think they have
any extra software upgrades to support ADSL
services that require to you to use PPP.
One thing is clear that console will work only
with cable providers that have almost static IPs,
like Shaw/Rogers in Canada.
What would be smart is to develop as software
upgrade for the ethernet after PPP,DHCP and other
are supported, a SEGAnet API extension that
will detect Ethernet card and start connecting to
SEGAnet over that... who knows.

Re:What about NAT? (1)

GodSpiral (167039) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860742)

Games may work behind NAT's without setup. But I don't bother trying to use most games from computers on my network, because only some mostly recent games are designed to work around NATs.

My point is I/Joe consumer have doubts that sega games will work through my NAT, and so dampens my enthusiasm for it.

Redundant answer if I ever saw one... (1)

cheekymonkey_68 (156096) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860744)

Can you imagine a "Rudundant answer" ?

"Rudundant" indeed, I think Sir you require a spell checker...

Moderators, please moderate this as "Redundant"

Re:Which games support it? (1)

Eisenfaust (231128) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860745)

Doesn't the Dreamcast run on Windows CE? Doesn't windows ce have a hardware transparent network layer and tcp/ip stack ?!?! Why would a developer side step an already existing transparent network layer in favor of something that required applications to provide support for multiple piece of network hardware when they shouldn't have to provide any such support in the first place !?!? Maybe I am missing something because this just doesnt make any sense to me.

Re:Phantasy Star Online... (2)

robbway (200983) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860746)

I've played the Japanese release. It's essentially the same as the US since the English, French, and Japanese language translations are all there. Graphics-wise, it's not impressive. Gameplay is similar to Asheron's call. Where the game does shine is its online/offline continuity, with a complete offline quest. Unfortunately, I was unable to test the online portion; however there are "downloadable quests," that can be retrieved, which adds the unknown element. I just can't wait to see how it handles lag and dead reckoning. I hate moonwalking characters and popping from place to place!

PSO is supposed to support the broadband adapter, so I guess the biggest hurdle now is getting the US servers online and synched with the rest of the world.

----------------------

Ping obsolete? (1)

mmol_6453 (231450) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860747)

By the time my grandkids are my current age(17), 'ping' will probably be close to obsolete, what with fiber-optic to the home, and things like that. I mean, why bother timing how long it takes light to travel the forty-thousand miles along optic fiber?



You guys, I really think that if I were to tell my grandkids, "I had a 15ms ping time to my own ISP" (which I do...ISDN), I don't think they'd know what I meant.



All-optical routers have really done a number on us...It just doesn't seem right to feel obsolete at 17. (No jokes about the ISDN, plz. :)


Release of specs? (1)

mmol_6453 (231450) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860748)

While I'm nothing resembling 'up-to-date' in regards to video games and consoles, wouldn't it be other companies that developed the games?

Perhaps Sega released the specs, and other companies didn't incorperate the feature for fear of faulty, untested code. (I have doubts as to whether other developers had access to prototypes)

Perhaps Sega, or its developer, simply forgot to release the specs ahead of time...

Perhaps the game developers have been designing with this component in mind, but haven't released their game yet...


Re:Oh boy (2)

slim (1652) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860749)

I can't wait to start kicking the asses of all the Dreamcasters when they attempt to beat me at Quake 3 (that's the one that's out for DC, right?) with their little gamepad toy. Mouse and keyboard all the way, baby!

So few words, so many holes to pick. First of all, as many people have already pointed out, DC mouse and keyboard are available. Secondly, why on earth would you be so eager to thrash gamers with inferior control methods, instead of having a decent game against a well matched opponent? Thirdly, are you aware that there are many games besides Quake, some of which aren't even first-person shooters!. I expect games such as Phantasy Star Online to play much better with a pad than with a keyboard+mouse. Fourth, "little gamepad toy"... um, you are aware that the Dreamcast is sold as a toy; the intention is to have fun. In this context "toy" is not a great way of demeaning the Dreamcast. Incidentally I rate the Dreamcast pad as being among the best console controllers ever made. I know there are those who disagree, but it fits beautifully in my hands, the analogue control is great and the analoge shoulder triggers are inspired. On games like Jet Set Radio you forget the controller's there.

I wonder how much money the casual DC player is going to spend just so they can play games via broadband, though?

Well, the short answer is:
  • Dreamcast $150
  • Game $40 (? no sure about US prices)
  • Broadband adapter $60
  • Cable modem service $20/month (?)


... but I imagine the main market for broadband adapters will be people who have broadband for their computer, but prefer to play their games on a console. My lowly Cyrix 200 PC is perfectly good for email, web browsing, MP3, but hopeless for the current batch of games. I could spend £300 or more upgrading to the point where it's gaming-ready, but it's cheaper and easier to just buy a console, not to mention the better (IMO) games available. With the broadband adapter a person can use the one broadband account for both console gaming *and* PC internet use.

Unfortunately, there are some games I just can't let myself miss out on -- and Monkey Island 4 means I'm going to have to bite the bullet and upgrade that PC anyway (but Crazy Taxi, Jet Set Radio, Sonic Adventure meant I equally had to own a Dreamcast).
--

Underwhelmed (2)

double_h (21284) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860750)

While I think the DC ethernet adapter is a step in the nice direction, I'm still not in a rush to go out and order one. For one thing, it only works with a small, select group of games. And while some people are going to be excited at the prospect of being able to play low-ping 4-player games of Quake III Arena (that's all the DC version supports) at 640x480 resolution, that's going to strike a lot of people as old news. Of course, one can expect there to be more broadband-enabled games in the future.

Up until recently, I would have been more excited about the ethernet adapter, what with the fact that progress has been made porting Linux to the DC, as well as lots of emulators and other projects [boob.co.uk] (VCD and MP3 players and like). But alas, the rumors I'm hearing more and more frequently are that Sega is going to start shipping new Dreamcasts that won't boot CD-ROMS (only the proprietary GD-ROM), in an effort to keep people from copying games. That'll work real well for all two weeks until a mod chip comes out, but could really cramp the efforts of people doing independent development on the system, if their project won't work on new Dreamcasts without a hardware modification.

I guess the main reason I won't be investing in new DC gadgetry, though, is that it becomes more and more apparent over time that game companies are by and large not neat, creative cottage industries interested in hacking, exploration, or or neat development products. They are evil consumer electronics corporations who want my money are who are all too eager to restrict, dumb down, and hobble their products if it is in the interest of their bottom line.

My bottom line is that I think I'll use that $90 to buy some art supplies and used CDs, and do something with my spare time other than point and drool for a change.

Re:Oh boy (1)

Gogl (125883) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860752)

Okay, first off:

Dreamcast let's you buy a mouse and a keyboard, albeit overpriced. Most hardcore Quake III dreamcast people get the keyboard and mouse.... that and chat doesn't exactly work without a keyboard....

Second, you can download stuff, it just doesn't have a drive to download it too if you're intending to save stuff (although the NetBSD hack port thing might change this). As for media players and downloading prOn, the dreamcast browser, while still pretty bad, is getting better in every new release.... in this current (2.0) release it now has shock (yeah yeah shock sucks whatever, at least it's a feature in it now *shrug* I don't care I always skip shock intros anyway), and I wouldn't be surprised if v3.0 has a media player....

Re:Which games support it? (5)

Boone^ (151057) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860753)

Nope, sorry... Only new games will support it. Games will be labeled "BB Ready" or something. From this link: http://www.consolewire.com/news/item.asp?nid=538 [consolewire.com]
Q. Will NBA and NFL, Quake III and other games that are already out support broadband adaptor? What are the games that will support it?

A. At this time, the "Dreamcast Broadband Adapter" supports "Quake III(TM) Arena," "Pod(TM) 2," and "Unreal Tournament(TM)." More great games shipping in 2001 will support the "Dreamcast Broadband Adapter." All games supporting the BB Adapter will be labeled as such at retail.

I guess we wait until NFL 2k2. :(

Re:Which games support it? (2)

Kenshin (43036) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860754)

The thing is that older Dreamcast online games don't recognise the ethernet thingy. They only have the drivers necessary to dial out with the modem.

Re:Hum... (1)

Gogl (125883) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860755)

Okay problems with this:

#1: How does the new broadband modem really change this? Yeah I know now the IP is no longer changing a la dialup, but still dreamcasts are online as before, I don't see why DoS attacks would be different.

#2: The broadband thing is just an adaptor... and I quote from the article thingy, "the adapter will allow you to use your existing Ethernet network, DSL or Cable modem services," i.e. the Dreamcast just hooks up with the network.... so you wouldn't really be attacking the dreamcast, you'd be attacking whatever network type thingy it hooks up to... not technical terms I realize, but still it's not like this is a cable modem for the dreamcast here....

Re:Hum... (1)

MrP- (45616) | more than 13 years ago | (#1860756)

I dont know but my dc goes to its knees sometimes in quake3, the modem stops working, i contacted sega, they said the ip stack crashes sometimes, guess they used winsock :p

moderate my post up, its anti MS! jk :)
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