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111 comments

RIP (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37573202)

Nokia

been coming awhile :( (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37573206)

I love my N900, but the writing has been on the wall for Nokia for a long time now. They don't seem able to compete with the likes of Apple and Google, and the world is transitioning to smartphones. Their former market is disappearing, and they haven't managed to break into the smartphone space. They had a VERY promising platform in Maemo, but they really dropped the ball there.

Sad to watch such mismanagement. It isn't the engineers that are the problem, it's mismanagement.

Re:been coming awhile :( (2)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573262)

I love my N900, but the writing has been on the wall for Nokia for a long time now. They don't seem able to compete with the likes of Apple and Google, and the world is transitioning to smartphones. Their former market is disappearing, and they haven't managed to break into the smartphone space. They had a VERY promising platform in Maemo, but they really dropped the ball there.

Sad to watch such mismanagement. It isn't the engineers that are the problem, it's mismanagement.

It's either malaise from being on top for so long or their decision makers are severely lacking in vision and vastly overpaid. They can perhaps wave to Kodak as they worth through Chapter 11.

They should have just hopped on the Android bandwagon and thrown in completely with Google.

Re:been coming awhile :( (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575286)

They should have just hopped on the Android bandwagon and thrown in completely with Google.

If you're talking about being the last one to the market instead of going with Windows Phone, maybe. But Nokia's main failure is not bringing their own platform to the market, I don't know whose fault that was but it wasn't Elop.

Re:been coming awhile :( (2)

Asic Eng (193332) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575570)

If you're talking about being the last one to the market instead of going with Windows Phone, maybe.

Wouldn't have mattered, I think. Android is established, but none of the existing Android vendors have a lock on it. Anyway, if e.g. HTC can sell Windows and Android phones, why couldn't Nokia have gone the same route? They don't have a lock on Windows phones either, they are just the only vendor totally depending on Windows.

Re:been coming awhile :( (2)

mrmeval (662166) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573414)

Serially incompetent management that will not pull it's head out of it's ass. Right after they laid off a friend who was working on an infrastructure project they announced going with Microsoft and their stock tanked dropping to it's lowest in 13 years, which has been a steady slide downward. It's meteoric plunge to mediocrity is befitting such ineptitude their management has been displaying of late.

Re:been coming awhile :( (1)

meowris (1988866) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573464)

As I will say, it's simply "natural selection".

Translation offered ... (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573228)

after announcing its decision to focus on Microsoft's Windows Phone operating system.

In other words, they're throwing themselves off a cliff with an anvil around their neck.

Re:Translation offered ... (2)

Threni (635302) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573236)

> In other words, they're throwing themselves off a cliff with an anvil around their neck

An anvil which very soon will have both cut AND paste functionality.

Re:Translation offered ... (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | more than 2 years ago | (#37576010)

At least it will have those yummy Commodor 64 graphics.

Re:Translation offered ... (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | more than 2 years ago | (#37576956)

Window Phone has had cut and paste since march.

Attempting to fly (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573452)

after announcing its decision to focus on Microsoft's Windows Phone operating system.

In other words, they're throwing themselves off a cliff with an anvil around their neck.

No, they threw themselves off the cliff when they ignored the iPhone, didn't take up Android early, and fiddled with MeeGo while the market burned.

Windows Mobile 7 is the only hope they have of not making a hard landing, while still remaining a distinct company with a leg up on other mobile makers. That would not have happened with Android where they would have just been one of the pack.

It's a distant chance but people should not mistake the reason for Nokia's plummet, which began well before Windows Mobile (or the Microsoft mole leading Nokia) entered the picture.

No chance at all (5, Interesting)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573672)

Nice trying to shift the blame, but they took the Manchurian CEO and he's quite quickly doing them in. In Europe they just ditched their established disty partners, burning their bridge to retail outlets that give them any sort of hope. That bridge is going to take a year to rebuild that they just don't have, and Europe was their only market with margins in it.

This one was over the day American investors called up the Chairman of Nokia and told him to take Elop or be fired and Elop would take over anyway. It's an inside job, the deliberate burning down of an established company. And it's an evil thing to do. It's crushing the economy of Finland, many retirement funds are going bust. Competent engineers with families thrown out of work. And the goal seems to be to get Nokia down to a size Microsoft can swallow, for the patents.

After he's done, where is Elop going to go? Where else? He'll come back to Redmond dragging the corpse of Nokia behind him, and it'll be stored in a filing cabinet next to Sendo's IP - and that will be the end of it.

Now who were those American investors? We don't know yet, but I bet it will come out one day in the shareholder lawsuit.

Re:No chance at all (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37573800)

Correct [picvalley.net]

Don't click the link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37573898)

It's toxic.

Re:Don't click the link (1)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574302)

Seemed alright to me. Maybe you haven't had the antidote.

Not a burn (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574922)

I agree Microsoft basically rode them over, but it was not to burn down the company. Nokia is Microsoft's only real hope of rising to a decent position in the mobile marketspace again. They need Nokia not to burn, but to shine... They also needed Android not to have Nokia either, that is true, but it is not sufficient for WP7 success.

Nokia though in my mind is totally to blame for being in a position where Microsoft could do what they have done. Had Nokia probably understood what happened when the IPhone entered the market they could have salvaged things then, but they kept going forward with outdated solutions for a mobile OS. If only Nokia and Palm had somehow got together way back then, like Nokia becoming a Palm exclusive provider in the same way they are working with Microsoft now... Nokia would have really held the whip in that relationship.

Re:Not a burn (2)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575196)

You are assuming that Microsoft is doing this for logical short term business reasons. In fact the point is that Nokia became one of the companies which started challenging Microsoft seriously. They refused to take on board Windows Mobile and basically Microsoft's fight against Sony and Nokia was what distracted Microsoft and allowed Apple to get ahead. I think Microsoft is out for simple revenge and humiliation. If you assume that Microsoft will survive and be dominant then in terms of long term business logic this is sensible. They will be able to say "look at Nokia; they tried to stand up to us, the realised the futility of this now they are dead; don't make the same mistake".

I think Microsoft is now in the same state as IBM during the 80's. They can't imagine that computing could continue without them. They are trying to control the Mini-computer market and meanwhile their competitors are coming up elsewhere.

Coulda woulda shoulda (2)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575236)

You're talking now about stuff that happened way back when Microsoft had a 20% share of mobile, and was fighting for a fraction of a point. Nokia had huge share then, and could have counted coup, but they didn't. Much like Microsoft could have innovated in the space and didn't. A lot of water has gone under that bridge.

Now Nokia seems to be trying to shed points as fast as they can, and Microsoft is looking up at one single point of share as an aspirational goal they hope they might achieve but don't know how to get there.

Nokia though in my mind is totally to blame for being in a position where Microsoft could do what they have done.

I'm going to be a total ass and suggest that this is equivalent to saying "She dressed like a slut, implying she wanted to be raped." It's harsh, but do you see what I'm getting at?

Nokia had some great stuff, some middling stuff, and some bad stuff. It had a heirarchy that didn't know or care which was which as long as it moved units, which worked for longer than it should have. But that day is done. We want new stuff.

Not soulless enough (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#37576064)

MS needs nothing. It could use Nokia to helps WP7 to become a success but if it doesn't, it will just try again with WP8. Something it is ALREADY doing right now. What happens to Nokia in the meantime isn't any concern of MS. If it dies, MS will just get another victim, if it survives... well ask HTC why it makes Android phones.

And of course, if Nokia fails then MS has one less competitor, a competitor that with Symbian and its phones was a major reason MS wasn't sellings its own phone OS for years on end.

Nokia itself probably never considered Apple, they thought the enemy was MS and that they had won the battle... and then iOS happened and changed the game and then Android happened and finished them off.

And of course, they finished themselves off as well. MeeGo had a change of being something different and it could have sold Linux phones at a premium to guys like me who wants a real OS with free applications. 1000 euro's for a phone like that? NP. The N900 sold well enough and people were looking forward to its replacement. But Nokia itself lost interest in the high end market and for that matter in the low end market. What can you say of the fortunes of a company that refuses to release a successor to a phone into areas it did very well in? "Oh I see you bought our previous phone?!? Well, no new phone for you, that should teach you to buy our stuff". (See N9)

Nokia will probably "learn" if it is still capable of it, that in certain relationships, one partner tends to be the taker. And MS is the biggest taker that ever existed. Bye bye Nokia.

Re:No chance at all (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#37577412)

Elop isn't to blame for Nokia's problems. OPK didn't do that great of a job to begin with.

typical, unfortunately. (1)

MrCrassic (994046) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573240)

From the article:

The affected employees work in manufacturing, location and commerce, and supporting functions, Nokia said on Thursday.

Unfortunately, it seems like the typical cut for a company in troubled straits.
I really hope they make an awesome comeback on Windows Mobile. I loved their phones and would love to go back. Still wish they went Android, though.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (4, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573308)

From the article:

The affected employees work in manufacturing, location and commerce, and supporting functions, Nokia said on Thursday.

Unfortunately, it seems like the typical cut for a company in troubled straits.

I really hope they make an awesome comeback on Windows Mobile. I loved their phones and would love to go back. Still wish they went Android, though.

Damning words:

Nokia‘s new superphones will offer a superior user interface and a better, cloud-enabled experience than its chief competitors, the company’s top U.S executive told VentureBeat.

The reliance by Apple and Android phones on the “app” as the central metaphor is “outdated,” he said.

The rest of what he said [venturebeat.com]

He doesn't get it. The board should sack him now and save time.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (4, Interesting)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573864)

If you've used Windows Phone 7 you would understand what he means by the "app as the central metaphor" being outdated.

I don't need a flickr app, a facebook app and a photo gallery app... I just want to look at my photos regardless of source.

And I want that everywhere. If I email someone a photo I want to be able to email them from my local storage, SkyDrive, Facebook or whatever. The Hub model is far superior to the fragmented app model.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (-1, Troll)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573932)

This stuff just doesn't matter. You guys are always here, bringing up this stuff that doesn't matter. What's up with that? You would think by now you would be willing to admit the thing has been rejected by the market and move on. What is wrong with you people? Is it that this is all you've got, the slim thread you're clinging to until Windows 8 brings mobile salvation?

Bad news: W8 hasn't got it either. Now what? Why don't you guys go do something useful with your lives? That would be nice.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (3, Informative)

R3d M3rcury (871886) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574156)

This stuff just doesn't matter. You guys are always here, bringing up this stuff that doesn't matter. [...] You would think by now you would be willing to admit the thing has been rejected by the market and move on.

Whenever anybody brings up "the market," I always think:

EAT SHIT: 10,000,000 flies can't be wrong.

As always, remember that McDonalds makes the most popular hamburgers. Britney Spears was, at one point, the most popular singer. Does this mean that "the market" has rejected other hamburger joints or other singers?

There are lots of reasons for something to become popular.

Now, I've never used a Windows Phone 7. I have an iPhone 3GS and will probably get the next generation iPhone when it comes out. But to say that the current interface model used in iOS and Android is the best because "the market has accepted it" is ridiculous. What Microsoft is doing is definitely interesting and is more focused around information than it is around brands--which is essentially what apps are. Yelp, Facebook, Flickr, GetGlue--they're all brands. The home screen of my iPhone ends up looking like a NASCAR competitor, rather than actually having information that might be useful to me like whether or not the weather will be decent tomorrow or if my friend has gotten back to me about dinner tonight.

As a Mac user, I can tell you that just because something is overwhelmingly accepted by "the market" doesn't mean it's the best, nor that something that is ignored by "the market" doesn't necessarily have benefits.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574234)

Well I've got one - my wife's. A top-o-the line HTC HD7 she bought without talking it over with me. Every time I show her an app on my SGS Epic she wants that on her phone, and it just won't do that. I had to buy her an Android tablet to make her happy, and now she only uses the phone for talk-n-text like it was a feature phone. When the contract is up I'll put an Android on it and give it to the kids as a toy for playing music and games and movies and that will be that. It's her last Windows Phone ever. The hardware's not bad - but the apps are lacking and that's not going to get better any time before it's obsolete. See, the utility in the thing isn't in the package at all - it's in the app ecosystem and that's why Windows Phone is having such an uphill battle. It's too little, too late.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574370)

Is it a Windows 7 phone or a 6.5 or earlier?

There is a big difference between the 2, as Windows 7 and 7.5 Mango are rewrites.

Do they still sell 6.5? (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574936)

It has Windows Phone 7, the No Donuts revision. Why would I be talking about Windows Mobile 6? Ah- don't answer that. A little Googling shows that folks with WM6.5 LOB apps have found a way to flash their HD7s with that decrepit ware. That's really sad. Kind of indicative of a serious disconnect between the OS vendor and the user base. That's really an odd corner case question. Is there somebody selling the HD7 with 6.5? That might explain why 6.5 is still selling better than 7.*. Forgive me - I was never into the Windows Mobile thing.

The Mango update will come along shortly for us I suppose. Not that it will change anything about my assessment, as it's got nothing to do with the OS. Multitasking, the ability to customize your device, choose backgrounds and ringtones, to do copy and paste, these are all essential features that make up the bare minimum of what a phone must do to even exist now. But even if Windows Phone hits all of our mandatory minimums it still doesn't have the apps we like and it isn't going to because between them iPhones and Android phones sell more units in a week than Windows Phone has ever. Maybe in two or three days even. Developers are not going to be motivated to make apps for this platform if they want to make money or have fame, which are the two primary motivators for app development. We have 10" Android tablets for our app needs now, and that's even better than having an Android phone because of the huge beautiful screens. The problem with our Android tablets is with 3G connectivity when you're away from wifi hotspots because our Android tablets don't have 3G or 4G, and we wouldn't pay the premium for that if it were available. We're not willing to pay an extra wireless contract for that. That's just crazy when you can activate Wifi tethering on a real phone or buy a MiWi and tether all your gear to it - your camera, your phone, your tablet, your laptop, and everybody else at the table too.

We can't even wifi tether to the thing with Mango when we get the update because that feature won't be enabled on legacy Windows Phones in Mango - and that might have extended its useful life. Something about the wifi chipset, or they didn't want to code around it, or maybe their traditional move-along strategy. Otherwise it would make a decent 3G hotspot at least. My Samsung Epic with Android is nearly a year old and it has 4G wifi hotspot tethering, which is nice for me on the odd occasion I'm away from open wifi, but now and again my wife is out & about with her Android tablet away from a hotspot and would like to browse the 'net. Doctor waiting rooms and whatnot. She's got a data-able HD7 WP7 phone, and it can't even give her that little thing. So in that rare corner case she can't browse the Internet except on the tiny phone screen - but she can catch up on her movies and TV episodes, she can move forward on the books she's working on. And at this point she'd rather do that than wrestle with IE over 3G on her HD7 with Windows Phone.

It'll make a nice toy when I put Android on it. Frankly I doubt we'll wait for the contract to expire. My wife's fallen in love with Android now that she's got the tablet and she's likely to go with an Android phone long before the contract expires in 18 months. She's downstairs right now refreshing her ancient Java skills to build Android apps. She doesn't care if the contract is up because it's my job to go get the money and if she wants a new phone she can stress me until I get it for her, even if it's every six months. Maybe I can convince her to let me have a go at Android mods for her HD7 first, if they have the phone part working. I haven't checked that yet. It's not bad hardware, like I said. Even if phone and data is a no-go, it'll make a nice Android test device and maybe I can talk her into a feature phone and a MiWi type thing so she can get her Android tablet online when she's out and about.

We're an odd bunch. We do tech from WAY back. Our kids get their own PC on their first birthday, and build their own in second grade, and we start coding in third. Their kindergarden teachers are surprised to get kids who know their alphabet. They don't know what to do with kids who can type short stories.

Re:Do they still sell 6.5? (1)

Deviant (1501) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575156)

A few things. First, Windows 8 will run the same apps as Windows Phone and vice versa. The metro interface with the swipe left/right just shows all the content in columns at once on a widescreen. So putting out hundreds of millions of comptuers with Windows 8 will mean that Windows Phone will benefit with the biggest app ecosystem of all of them very shortly. Those apps have been developed to run either on ARM or x86 as well. It will be buy once run on your phone, your tablet and your desktop. Not to mention they have really improved their free cloud offerings where it seemlessly syncs to things like Live for a roaming profile across any machine and with Skydrive for storage that is accessible from anything.

If you look the Dell Latitude business workhourse range just got touch on the scren standard. http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/latitude-e6420/pd [dell.com] Future desktops will have touch screens as well. Plus, there are Windows 8 'tablets' which will dock into be a "normal" PC when at home or work and be a tablet when on the road. With real filesystems you can interact with as you'd expect and which will run all your key software. Touch in windows is definetly coming and it is a game changer - why have a limited functionality tablet and a computer when you can have one device that does both seemlessly? With a version of MS office that has both traditional and touch friendly interfaces? The hardware is only getting cheaper and will be there by release.

Btw, I came from an iPhone and now I have a Windows Phone and love it with Mango (I've been in the Beta and just got the RTM). I have also been playing with the Windows 8 beta on a multitouch Thinkpad X-series tablet.

Microsoft actually has a great and consistent strategy for once and I'll be very surprised if they are not successful here...

That will be too late for Nokia (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575294)

Yes, yes - Longhorn++ with sugar on top but even if everything is as advertised or better it is still something years away from being on people's handsets. Nokia can't put that on their phones until it exists and they way they are going they might not exist by the time people see MS Windows 8 as a feature worth buying a phone for.

I'll go tinfoil hat here and ask:
If Nokia crashes and burns then Microsoft buy what is left for almost nothing and turn it into the Microsoft phone division does anyone go to jail?
P.S. I would like to see MS produce a wonderful system because I could then tell any relative with a current MS system full of crapware to just upgrade.

Re:Do they still sell 6.5? (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575310)

OOh. We get eight levels deep in the slashdot where nobody will read it, and now I get the real shizzle. Well thanks for the marginal respect, to let me have this little bit.

You still suck, and you're not going to win. Let me tell you why.

W8 is a year out at best, and two before it peaks - and we know that after is coming versions we have to migrate to and buy again. You'll sell a brazillian copies, just like you did with Vista, but almost nobody will actually use it. That will probably be the last time for that trick.

We like our phones, and our tablets too. And when there's an update, we click update and have the new version automagically. We don't have to buy it. We don't have to swap out our gear. Every supported function is supported until our gear doesn't do the new things other people do. We have to buy new gear when it actually does new stuff, rather than when the buttons on the old stuff are moved around, which is your current plan for selling more units.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37574570)

Huh didn't your wife go to the app marketplace on her phone? Is there some specific type of app that is special to your phone, I am unaware of anything other than flash that is android specific.

Android only? (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575168)

"Other than flash" well that deals out something like 90% of web apps. My Android phone doesn't do Silverlight-light, like her phone does, which cuts me out of just about nuthin. Her Windows phone can't even do Zombo.com [zombo.com] . And everything is possible at Zombo.com. (Sorry iFans, you don't get zombocom.)

Apparently in iOS and Android a weather widget or flight planner is one app no matter where you might be, but Microsoft is spiffing per app to get their app count up so in Windows phone each of those is thousands of apps depending on where you might be and they have to rate-limit app submissions to hundreds per day per developer.

There are darned few Android apps that can't be had on iOS. Due to the relative market share however, 95% of Android apps can't be had on Windows phone, and the percentage is higher on iOS. But not even 5% of Android apps can be had on Windows Phone, and a lot of those are damned good. iOS has two apps that are awesome that Android can't have: GarageBand and iMovie. That's it.

My wife's a bright girl. 130+ IQ, classically educated with a 4 year degree in programming (best marks), and considerable self-study beyond that. She can discuss at length the moral implications of exobiology, argue both for and against life-extension without emotion, consider the implications of FTL muons with the best of us, and still get the kids to school in relativistic time. If it weren't so I'd find her impossibly boring. She's working on Android apps now as an author. Yes, she knows how to work her phone and find the few apps it does have. She bought it to spite me, and has realized her mistake. It doesn't have the apps my Android phone has, and it's not gonna. She's stubborn, not stupid.

Thanks for playing. If you got paid for that, they didn't get their money's worth.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (1)

evilviper (135110) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574360)

The home screen of my iPhone ends up looking like a NASCAR competitor, rather than actually having information that might be useful to me like whether or not the weather will be decent tomorrow or if my friend has gotten back to me about dinner tonight.

That's an iPhone defficiency which Android certainly does not suffer from... They're called "Widgets" and they work quite well. I've got 3 home screens full of them. Music, news, traffic, appointments, weather, latest text messages, emails, etc.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37575166)

you're a genius. mentioning britney and mcdonalds was an argument FOR androids success if there ever was one. (shakes head)

the market has ignored windows mobile. period. end of story.

i'm done coming to the defense of mac users because of your one post. you're too stupid to live. all of you.

*As a Mac user, I can tell you that just because something is overwhelmingly accepted by "the market" doesn't mean it's the best*

GP never said it was, and your jousting against a point, no one brought up, Red "Strawman" Mercury.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (1)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575222)

I don't need a flickr app, a facebook app and a photo gallery app [...] The Hub model is far superior to the fragmented app model. [N.B. edited to make it clear what I'm responding to]

This is only true if you assume that all of the development of mobile photo handling on the internet has already happened. Or you assume that you can freeze that development for your system. In that case, photo storage is a commoditised thing. It doesn't make any difference whether you do it on Flikr or Google+. However, this isn't true. E.g. Social network photo storage interlinks the photo to a scary facial recognition system. Other people will start offering automated cropping and rotation correction services etc. etc.

The choice to downplay apps downplays development. It's an attempt to slow the internet down to Microsoft's speed by wiping out the importance of the small companies that drive innovation. I think it will fail.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37577420)

Is this really what we are reduced to. Staring at little screens all day long in an effort to not have to interact with anyone in person. Smartphones serve a purpose. Small information grabs as needed to facilitate something else in my life. In this respect, I agree that the app is the outdated metaphor. It is really the services and and content that we gain access to that matters. The rest all just games and time-wasters.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (1)

TuringTest (533084) | more than 2 years ago | (#37576862)

I don't need a flickr app, a facebook app and a photo gallery app... I just want to look at my photos regardless of source.

RSS blog aggregators already tried that approach, and it didn't work well.

Applications provide context for the way in which you want to use content. Context that never-ending streams of nearly-identical posts simply don't have.

Nope (1)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 2 years ago | (#37578462)

Not gonna fly. All these guys want their branding everywhere, and they're not going to participate if users aren't constantly made aware of who is serving them. Besides, each of these services have different options and functionality, and one generic "photos" function won't do 'em all.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574352)

"Damning words:

Nokia‘s new superphones will offer a superior user interface and a better, cloud-enabled experience than its chief competitors, the company’s top U.S executive told VentureBeat.

The reliance by Apple and Android phones on the “app” as the central metaphor is “outdated,” he said.

The rest of what he said [venturebeat.com]

He doesn't get it. The board should sack him now and save time."

Unfortunately, it would be too little too late.

They already committed probably a billion or more on Windows 7 mobile development, plus they have a contract they need to honor with Microsoft. Similarly, look at how the HP shareholders reacted with a sudden change in direction with a new CEO? 40% share price loss and a sacking of the CEO who changed direction. I hope in an ideal world the new HP CEO would decide to stick with HPs expensive assets and go back to its strengths, but the new CEO would be canned too and so would the share price if they all of the sudden wanted WebOS and its consumer PCs.

Nokia would have a similar fate, and now be another year behind its rivals. They can't just go with WebOS (I wish they could buy it), or go with Android and risk being sued by Apple and be indistinguishable between 5 other makers, or decide to waste another year transitioning Mego, etc.

On the positive side, Windows phone 7 has great reviews! [amplicate.com] I know this is slashdot and we all want to hate it and set it on fire and burn it, but it is a redesign from the ground up from Windows Phone 6.5 and the ill fated Windows CE. Mago now has multitasking since it is a redesign and non anti-ms sites like www.arstechnica.com have some details and interesting reviews. If there products suck less then it is better. Its at least improving.

One thing I do wonder is does Nokia make money off the Windows app store for its phones? Owning your own OS does have its benefits and the CEO did say he wanted his products to not be clones and be unique, but if Windows phones catches on then he is another clone maker who has just a different OS from the Andriod players out there now. The apps for Windows 7 will come as it gains popularity thanks to Visual Studio.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575364)

Meego and Maemo development were dirt cheap because they didn't have very many people working on it at all. The downside was that development was slow in comparison to environments with more resources behind them - but they are still well ahead of some other systems.
I really can't understand why fanboys were raving about an environment that is now about to be dragged screaming into the 1990s with multitasking. Maybe that's why I've never even seen a smartphone with Windows on it.

Re:typical, unfortunately. (1)

SadButTrue (848439) | more than 2 years ago | (#37576766)

I think Amazon put to rest any idea that Andriod can't be made different enough. Not that it was all that compelling of an argument to begin with. HTC and Samsung had been skinning Andriod, pretty much, since day one.

The question then becomes how deep in to the source do you have to go to get enough differentiation. There seems little question that Nokia had more developers familiar with linux than windows so it probably came down to familiarity on Elop's part.

The thing that still confuses me about the decision though is that as far as I know WP7 still doesn't support non romance languages. For a company like motoroloa that is fine but for a true multinational like Nokia that should have been a Lemmon-esque deal breaker.

Yeah, I feel ya (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37573276)

I just lost my job today...

Re:Yeah, I feel ya (1)

drougie (36782) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573402)

I'm sorry, AC. Good luck. Maybe try to start up a thing ushering people to the cloud. Not much start-up investment, good chance you can handle it, not saturated yet, and you just need to know a few people to talk into letting you do it for them, then one client leads to more and eventually you're in the black again. Maybe.

Re:Yeah, I feel ya (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37573442)

Boohoo. You were probably incompetent.

Sad. (2)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573320)

They made best handsets. the voice quality, both incoming and outgoing, are still spectacular. not found in any other device. sad that stuff peripheral to actual phone call quality is determining the fate of a handset maker.

Re:Sad. (2)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573484)

There will still be a market for "feature phones".

In fact I would have given up any of my "smart phones" that I had over the years for a flip-phone that supported all the 3g bands globally, had bluetooth and wi-fi hotspot capability and tethering that is not controlled by a telco, a magnetic charger cradle, good case with belt attachment, etc, all the basic standbys of a good phone.

This is because with the advent of tablets the concept of a "smart phone" has become quite exposed for a kludge-compromise that it is. A tablet is very good at web browsing, email, apps etc but a phone is a communication device and mostly sucks at those things due to its restrictive form factor. Worse, "smart phones" also suck at being phones, again due to the kludge-compromises required. Wireless tethering of a good phone and a lightweight tablet is an optimal approach in my opinion.

And if you added some limited "bonus" functions to the phone such as simple web access and email functionality, camera and a basic music player to act as a backup should you leave the tablet at home, many would choose such a phone over an overpriced everything-and-a-kitchen-sink-3hrs-battery-life "smart phone".

And nothing beats being able to answer a call by simply flipping a flip-phone open with one hand, not to mention that its microphone is naturally placed in front of your mouth. Close it and the call ends, protecting its screen and keyboard from mishaps.

Sooner or later someone is bound to realize this. And if Nokia puts out a flip phone like this, I won't care if the thing runs some Hell-spawned Windows Nightmare because the OS will be quite irrelevant to me as long as it does not compromise the phone's communication performance or its general usability. Unfortunately for Nokia, with Windows these very things naturally become somewhat of a challenge.

Re:Sad. (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573610)

You want lit push buttons with that or will the rotary dial work OK?

Re:Sad. (2)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573868)

Have fun pushing those virtual buttons on that touch screen with your face when the "face proximity" sensor steams up.

Not all "new" tech is superior to the "old" tech just because its shiny or because some fashionistas think it ups their snob factor a few times. Everything has its place and its worth is measured by many different factors, some of them purely subjective from the user's perspective. This is why there is no "one-size-fits-all", "my-way-or-everyone-else-is-an-idiot" approach, although it appears to be the very delusion under which you seem to labour.

Tactile feedback for example is something brick-format, all-touchscreen "smart phones" can only dream of, despite all sorts of desperate kludges like wobbly, rickety slide-out keyboards.

Their screen size is too small for many people for comfortable web browsing and increasing it renders the whole phone an unwieldy, inconvenient gimmick, still too small to be useful as a web platform and too big to be a phone.

Compromising one outstanding feature so that many mediocre features can be included is also why many people used to "obsolete" RIM products refuse to "upgrade" to the new no-keyboard "cool" format. They simply do not care for "apps", they instead care for an ability to communicate via text efficiently.

This is also why many prefer the flip-phone format, despite the fashionistas trying to ram the glass-front brick down everyone's throats.

Re:Sad. (2)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574116)

This is also why many prefer the flip-phone format, despite the fashionistas trying to ram the glass-front brick down everyone's throats.

You seem (here and elsewhere) to use "flip phone" as synonymous with "solid, traditional, non-smart mobile phone". Which obviously misses out the "bar" format of phones like the once ubiquitous Nokia 3310 [wikipedia.org] .

IIRC the "bar" form factor was much more common than the flip-phone/clamshell around the turn of the millennium, and that seems nice and functional too. The clamshell form factor seemed to reach its peak of popularity here in the UK around the mid-noughties (*), but since then they seem to have gone out of fashion again and almost completely disappeared (**). Virtually all the non-smart phones seem to have gone back to the "bar" form factor, or perhaps it's that the people who once bought clamshells are now buying smartphones, and the people who just wanted simple functionality always preferred the "bar" phones.

(BTW, I always had a dislike for the clamshell form factor myself, but this was admittedly just personal taste).

(*) Hate that name for the last decade, only became aware of it once it had ended, but not aware of anything better.
(**) Wikipedia claims that flip phones were still the most popular form factor in the US in 2009 [wikipedia.org] . Maybe the US market is different to the UK, who knows?

Re:Sad. (1)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574170)

You seem (here and elsewhere) to use "flip phone" as synonymous with "solid, traditional, non-smart mobile phone". Which obviously misses out the "bar" format of phones like the once ubiquitous Nokia 3310.

No, I specifically mean the mechanical format of a flip phone combined with good voice/data communication capabilities, yet with no emphasis on the "smart phone" functionality. Of course it is possible to produce a bar-format phone with these same capabilities but it was not what I meant.

It is also possible to construct a flip-phone format "smart phone" but such a device would also be undesirable by me because it would, by necessity, entail unneeded by me compromises and cost.

The flip-phone, clam-shell design offers to me most useful mechanical properties for a phone from all the form-factors I tried over the years.

Virtually all the non-smart phones seem to have gone back to the "bar" form factor, or perhaps it's that the people who once bought clamshells are now buying smartphones, and the people who just wanted simple functionality always preferred the "bar" phones.

Actually this is more likely a sign of cost cutting and shuffling of limited resources into the "high end- high margin" i.e. "smart phone" products.

The bar format is simply far cheaper to manufacture and the unholy marriage of telcos and phone manufacturers is simply unwilling to offer their audience much in a way of choice in most countries. So where the clam-shells were once the "high end" phones (I remember a super-thin Motorola clam-shell once sold at US$2.5k here) that niche was taken over by the glass-front "smart phones" (which incidentally are also mechanically much simpler to manufacture than the clam-shells and their costs lies mostly in price of components).

Re:Sad. (1)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574326)

I like the flips for the fact I can shove it in my pocket with the knife, keys, change and what have you without worrying about the screen. It's friggin unbreakable, I've stepped on it.....twice. Dropped it a zillion times. It does only one thing but it does it great. It makes calls. I can talk on it. Amazing! And the battery lasts a week to ten days depending on usage. My smartphone toting friends are charging their batteries before the end of shift at work.....well...except for the apple guys.

Re:Sad. (1)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574344)

It does only one thing but it does it great. It makes calls.

Well, I wish for a modern clam-shell to expand that definition to "it transmits/receives voice and data" so that it can become the go-between for any data device I fancy, be it my tablet or a laptop.

Other than that, you are right indeed, clam-shell phones come with what is in effect a self-contained protective hard-case. Another reason why I think an updated, data-capable model would sell well.

Re:Sad. (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573634)

I don't think they have a flip-phone version, but I like Nokia's Eseries. And the E72 claims 12 hours of "talktime".

Re:Sad. (1)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574004)

Flip is a must for me. I had literally upward of 40 phones over the years, starting with a lead-acid battery analog cell phone in the "purse" format, and I find the flip phone format far superior for normal phone use, hands down.

When I look at how I use the phone, 90% of the time I will be talking after answering an incoming call on it and for that a flip phone is, to me, the most convenient because I can operate it one handed without looking at it and hold it up by tilting my head when I need two hands without compromising communication quality. No modern brick phone can do that well, especially the glass-front, all-touch phones that go positively nuts due to the pathetic "face proximity sensor" compromises that had to be made to make the device fullfil mutually-contradictory requirements.

As to the E72, I had a chance to try the E61 which was the older generation equivalent and even though I found its build quality very good, the form factor was actually quite cumbersome in my daily use.

This format would be however a good fit for someone used to keyboard-primary rather then voice-primary communication, i.e. someone looking for a Blackberry replacement.

Re:Sad. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37575628)

I have been buying E61s from Ebay for my friends - the sound is loud, and the screen and keyboard are big! for us over 50's those are the most important factors.We dont give a stuff about posing on the bus - unlike teenagers.

Re:Sad. (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574034)

This is because with the advent of tablets the concept of a "smart phone" has become quite exposed for a kludge-compromise that it is. A tablet is very good at web browsing, email, apps etc but a phone is a communication device and mostly sucks at those things due to its restrictive form factor.

Well, clearly a smartphone's usability will be a compromise due to its limited dimensions.

However- and I apologise for stating the blooming obvious here- they're generally that size so they fit in your pocket. A tablet won't.

Your argument is apparently(?) that now tablets are here smartphones are no longer needed as we can use a non-smart phone for the "phone" bit and a tablet for the "smart" bit. Missing the point that this isn't much good if you want the "smart" bit on the go and don't have iPad-sized pockets(!) (Or were you saying something else?)

You prefer a solid traditional phone? That's fine, I can understand that. But others might not, and a tablet certainly isn't a replacement for a smartphone. Personally, I have a smartphone, but little interest in tablets as they currently are- I'd rather just use my computer if I didn't want to use something that fitted in my pocket!

Re:Sad. (1)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574122)

Your argument is apparently(?) that now tablets are here smartphones are no longer needed as we can use a non-smart phone for the "phone" bit and a tablet for the "smart" bit. Missing the point that this isn't much good if you want the "smart" bit on the go and don't have iPad-sized pockets(!) (Or were you saying something else?)

No, what I am saying that for many people, myself included, the usage patterns of the phone/tablet are such that we no longer need the functionality of the "smart phone" because that part has been transferred to the tablet and what remains is the functionality of a wireless voice/data communication device.

Obviously this usage pattern is not universal and for some the compromise of a "smart phone" is the only useful option.

So in my case, I always carry a light backpack (before I used to carry briefcases and what not) that provides for a permanent place for a tablet. Some people insist on carrying only the phone in their pant pocket. Obviously to each their own.

But for people like me who decided on separation of functions along the line of phone/tablet, a different arrangement is optimal then for those who need "all in one" small factor device and who therefore must put up with all the short-comings of such a device.

I am simply no longer willing to pay for and accept all of the desperate compromises that such an all-in-one device entails and wish to return to a good quality, convenient communication-only device supplemented by a separate, specialized data processing device.

You prefer a solid traditional phone? That's fine, I can understand that. But others might not, and a tablet certainly isn't a replacement for a smartphone. Personally, I have a smartphone, but little interest in tablets as they currently are- I'd rather just use my computer if I didn't want to use something that fitted in my pocket!

As I said, to each their own. I, apparently unlike some "smart phone" fanatics out here, do not propsose that all phones become flip phones or that the marketplace abandons "smart phones". I merely point out that there is a (possibly sizeable) audience out there who have different priorities and require a different device and that the seeming progression of all phones to an iPhone "me-too" format that utterly disregards this audience is not dictated by reason or market demand but by something akin to mass hysteria.

Re:Sad. (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#37576146)

No, what I am saying that for many people, myself included, the usage patterns of the phone/tablet are such that we no longer need the functionality of the "smart phone" because that part has been transferred to the tablet and what remains is the functionality of a wireless voice/data communication device.

Honestly, it sounds like you're putting forward your own personal opinion- which is quite valid in itself- as representative of a general trend in public opinion. (*)

(Either that or you're suggesting that in your opinion the way many smartphone users use their devices is such that they would be better off with a tablet, even if they themselves haven't expressed- nor even consciously realised- that...?)

At any rate, I don't agree with this. I believe that many people originally bought- and still buy- touch-screen smartphones because they wanted that sort of functionality in a *portable* "phone" sized device. I don't see any evidence that the majority- or even a significant minority- bought them primarily because they were mini tablets (**)... and I still don't see that the majority of smartphone owners would agree with you that a non-smart phone plus a non-portable tablet would meet the same need.

As I said before, your opinion is quite reasonable in itself. I just don't think it's representative of public opinion in general, nor a good case for explaining why smartphones have supposedly been rendered redundant by the arrival of the tablet.

(*) For similar reasons, I interpreted this line in your original post:-

This is because with the advent of tablets the concept of a "smart phone" has become quite exposed for a kludge-compromise that it is.

as intended to be representative of a consensus rather than personal opinion because of the way it was phrased.

(**) Even granting allowance for the fact that although most people would not have heard of a "tablet" when the iPhone first came out, nor were probably even aware of the concept, it could still (theoretically) have appealed to them on that level.

Re:Sad. (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573510)

They made best handsets. the voice quality, both incoming and outgoing, are still spectacular. not found in any other device. sad that stuff peripheral to actual phone call quality is determining the fate of a handset maker.

Quality of hardware and user experience mattered to Apple, that's why they aren't bankrupt 10 years ago and a subject of pub trivia. A lot of companies that tried that didn't pull it off. Nokia appear to be trusting Microsoft to manage their fortunes ... considering how many of Microsoft's killer products are only very obscure trivia now, I think this is a very risky move - Microsoft will go on making money from Office, Windows n+1 and SQL Server, but when Nokia's strategy fails they'll have nothing - not even making el-cheapo pre-paids.

Windows Phone just isn't it and isn't going to be. Android is a developer's dream. What does Microsoft have to offer the developer, to lure him/her away from a large and potentially lucrative iPad/iPhone/Android market?

Re:Sad. (2)

Anonymous Psychopath (18031) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573576)

They made best handsets. the voice quality, both incoming and outgoing, are still spectacular. not found in any other device. sad that stuff peripheral to actual phone call quality is determining the fate of a handset maker.

Quality of hardware and user experience mattered to Apple, that's why they aren't bankrupt 10 years ago and a subject of pub trivia.

You seem to be implying that Apple also has excellent voice quality. This strikes me as funny because we usually ridicule anyone breaking up on a conference call by asking them if they're using an iPhone.

Re:Sad. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37574262)

Please educate me on what makes android a developer's dream? And in saying so you are suggesting that winpho by comparison is not...

Re:Sad. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37574398)

Considering how many different special cases you have to account for in terms of screen size, resolution, and phone capabilities as an Android app writer ... I'd say Android is *far* from a "developer's dream", unless by "dream" you mean the nightmare sort.

WP7 Best bet (almost) (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574900)

Quality of hardware and user experience mattered to Apple, that's why they aren't bankrupt 10 years ago and a subject of pub trivia. A lot of companies that tried that didn't pull it off. Nokia appear to be trusting Microsoft to manage their fortunes ... considering how many of Microsoft's killer products are only very obscure trivia now, I think this is a very risky move

It's not as risky as it seems - quality of experience is I think why they went with Windows Mobile 7 and not Android. They realized they couldn't handle the software side of a really polished product, but Microsoft could. If WP7 and Nokia have any chance, it is this very combination that could carry them forward pretty well.

And despite what they say about apps not mattering, they have a decent number with decent quality.

The only thing that MIGHT have been a better fit was Palm, but I think at the time they were deciding to switch that was not an option - plus again they would have had to buy and manage it.

Re:Sad. (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574412)

You say stuff peripheral, I say better ways to communicate.

Re:Sad. (1)

war4peace (1628283) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575678)

After reading some information on HOW they chose to close the Cluj, Romania factory, I suddenly don't mourn them anymore.

In February 2011, they had some rather secretive discussions with local authorities, informing them that they plan to close the factory down before the end of the year. Nothing official, nothing written though.

In April 2011, they sent a memo to all employees from the factory, telling them there's nothing to worry about; that Nokia has no intention of shutting the factory down.

Fast-forward to September 2011: All employees are being asked to participate to a factory-wide meeting held in a huge tent on factory premises. They are informed that Nokia is pulling out; all of them will remain jobless by the end of the year and they will receive compensation through March 2012 (3 months salary payments after shutting the place down).

Fun Fact #1: many employees there had relocated to work for Nokia; they came from various parts of the country, lured by better salaries, promises and the opportunity to work for a multi-national, apparently stable company. Some uprooted their families as well. Now they're pretty much hanging...

Fun Fact #2: I myself applied for an operational manager position there, was in talks with them but for some reason they didn't call back at some point. Now I'm happy they didn't. With a 6-months-in pregnant wife and given the current economical situation, I would've been toast.

Re:Sad. (1)

AftanGustur (7715) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575940)

They made best handsets. the voice quality, both incoming and outgoing, are still spectacular. not found in any other device. sad that stuff peripheral to actual phone call quality is determining the fate of a handset maker.

I have owned quite a few Nokia GSM telephones and considered them as one of the best also.

My last telephone however is the Google Nexus S, and after a few hours of playing with is I was completely blown away when I spoke to my brother over Skye. The sound quality is on pair with what you get with your PC and a good headset, crystal clear and up-close.

1+1=2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37573366)

I get the manufacturing and support layoffs. Microsoft's core business is marketing. Switching over to Windows Phone means Nokia seeks to switch from manufacturing phones to marketing non-existing ones. Much cheaper per unsold phone. And stopping the production of actual phones makes Nokia the most environment friendly phone company on the planet. Does wonders for the brand name. No phones also don't require support.

Not sure about the location and commerce though. Maybe that's part of the secret plan.

Re:1+1=2 (2)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573406)

I get the manufacturing and support layoffs. Microsoft's core business is marketing. Switching over to Windows Phone means Nokia seeks to switch from manufacturing phones to marketing non-existing ones. Much cheaper per unsold phone. And stopping the production of actual phones makes Nokia the most environment friendly phone company on the planet. Does wonders for the brand name. No phones also don't require support.

Not sure about the location and commerce though. Maybe that's part of the secret plan.

Psst! It's in the CLOUDs. Codename: Snow

Look out for where those people go to! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37573492)

There could very well be a couple of awesome Linux-on-phones-friendly start-ups coming our way! :)

How I see it, the 3500 employees are not the part going to the trash. The Nokia part is the one.

Er, what? (3, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573498)

Nokia is planning to lay off an additional 3,500 employees, as the company continues to restructure after announcing its decision to focus on Microsoft's Windows Phone operating system.

So they are preemptively firing people based on their expectations of how well the Windows Phones are going to sell?

Re:3500 (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573538)

Right,

What DO 3500 ex-employees do with themselves in each of these layoffs? Surely they can reband together and do ... something cool?

Re:3500 (1)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574328)

Presumably they could start another phone manufacturer. In a few months Finland will need one.

Re:3500 (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575948)

What DO 3500 ex-employees do with themselves in each of these layoffs? Surely they can reband together and do ... something cool?

If Nokia were a co-op then they could, because they would own company assets, and they could take some with them.

Re:Er, what? (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574380)

NO they are firing the employees because the CEO needs to update his 3rd vacation home in the grand caymen islands. Those hurricanes damaged the tennis courts. God how aweful and poor guy.

... in all seriousness, Nokia is not doing that well and is dying while it blows hundreds of millions and maybe even billions into Windows development and Wall Street is not happy. You need to have good debt to assets ratio through crooked cost accounting by firing people to make your ratios look better to day traders and flash computers that rate your share price. I wonder what it is going, but if the slashdotters comments are correct then the CEO needs to keep his job anyway possible by cost cutting.

Nokia preps Linux-based Meltemi OS (1)

quantic_oscillation7 (973678) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573514)

what about this? vaporware? Nokia preps Linux-based Meltemi OS for feature phones, says report http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Nokia-Meltemi-plus-Tizen-update/ [linuxfordevices.com]

Re:Nokia preps Linux-based Meltemi OS (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573644)

Even if it does come out, don't expect it to be as open as Maemo.

The keyword is that it's for "feature phones". Those would be the S40 devices you see Nokia sell.

As a N900 owner.... (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573592)

What a shame, since they were right on the money with the N900, and would have been on the N950. The new Nokia slogan might as well be "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish non WP7 products".

Given that the N9 is crippled through deliberate exclusion from the US/UK/Germany markets, the only thing Nokia is becoming is an also-ran Windows Phone manufacturer. That product was designed to fail at sales so that Elop can point at it with some numbers and justify killing it.

Given that Nokia has gone this direction, is there anything that has the N900's featureset/openness?

Re:As a N900 owner.... (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574240)

Given that Nokia has gone this direction, is there anything that has the N900's featureset/openness?

Unfortunately, not thus far. Everything else out there seems to be Android laden, or otherwise locked down or missing features. I have yet to come across anything that includes 32GB of storage AND an SD card slot, let alone running an environment that offers a standard Linux userspace that is readily available.

There might be hope, what with Nvidia releasing hardfp drivers for MeeGo (which could be repurposed) but even that's been tossed into churn. Maybe if Samsung offers some way to get something like MeeGo going on their devices, there will be something to move to.

Re:As a N900 owner.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37575096)

You mean like Tizen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen)

The N9 was just released & apparently rocks (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574692)

Maemo 6 inside. So you've got a relatively standard Linux box there.

Of course they have decided not to sell the thing in their main markets... Like the USA, Germany, UK so you probably couldn't even buy one if it was an apple killer. Genius...

With that kind of decision making within the company, we have an explanation of the stock price drop from $40 to $5.
 

Re:The N9 was just released & apparently rocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37575642)

nokia seems to be doing a planned suicide, or more like is being assassinated.

i was soooo buying n9. i asked local phone provider whether it would be available, and they said "yes". but by that time i had already sent an inquiry to the official nokia representatives.... and they said that no, it won't be available. and the local provider was actually surprised, because they were sort of planning to have it...

and then they remove ogg vorbis support.

and then they seem to fuck up seriously with making the phone unfriendly for developers and power user - http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575&page=6

Re:As a N900 owner.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37575400)

There is no such thing as an "alsa ran" for Windows phone. A couple companies are making them, but no one is actually selling any.

Nokia's old burning platform phones sold more in two months than all the WP7 phones sold up to now.

Re:As a N900 owner.... (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575686)

A couple companies are making them, but no one is actually selling any.

There is that little company called HTC [forbes.com] ...

Sorry if it rains on your parade or something.

Re:As a N900 owner.... (1)

Patch86 (1465427) | more than 2 years ago | (#37576716)

Which is good for him (CEO's can say the darndest things, can't they?), but the last set of headlines I saw for WinPhone market share figures was that they were dropping, fast. A quick Google search gives me this:
http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-brief/57750-windows-phone-market-share-falling-fast [tgdaily.com]

Market share fallen by 38%- with Nokia being held up as the night in shining armour.

I'm not a habitual MS-hater- I wish them well with their mobile OS, and would be pleased to see more competition in a space so dominated by Apple and Android- but I'd hardly say they've been a roaring success so far. And relying on Nokia as a life-boat seems like a dire approach for both MS and Nokia, both of which will need more than just each other if they're going to survive in this market.

Some perspective? (4, Insightful)

airfoobar (1853132) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573642)

Nokia has over 130,000 employees. Generally, layoffs are not a good sign for a company, however in this case they were expected since they are making major changes to their product line. Is there really a story here? Honest question.

Re:Some perspective? (2)

Wizzu (30521) | more than 2 years ago | (#37573978)

Nokia has over 130,000 employees.

I don't think it's that many. There's a graph in an Finnish online news article [yle.fi] , and while the text is in Finnish, the graph should be pretty clear. The figure was about 120,000 employees in 2010 according to the graph. It probably ends before any of the current wave of layoffs have been included.

In the graph, the big jump around 2006 is probably when Nokia-Siemens Networks was created. If so, including the NSN employees is a bit misleading because generally NSN is thought of as a separate entity, and they have their own layoffs etc. which don't impact the phone manufacturing. Also, in 2007 Navteq was bought. So that's maybe about 60,000 "non-Nokia" people, with "Nokia proper" having about 60,000-70,000.

I haven't kept count, but by now the total reduction is about 10,000 if not even more. So that's 10,000 out of the 60,000, not 10,000 out of the 120,000.

Re:Some perspective? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37575146)

Yes!

The 3500 that they are firing are the ones from a Rumanian factory, which they have created when they closed their factory in Bochum, Germany back in 2008.

That move made lots of Germans stop using Nokia mobiles at the time.

Re:Some perspective? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37577064)

Ask the 3500 people who got layed off.

Re:Some perspective? (1)

sunderland56 (621843) | more than 2 years ago | (#37577356)

Nokia has over 130,000 employees.

Well, *there* is the problem. Apple has roughly 50,000 - and makes more phones than Nokia, plus they make iPods, and tablets, and computers, Oh, and operating systems. So if Nokia wants to reduce the company to Apple's size, this is the first 3,500 out of 80,000, or less than 5% of their excess.

Explanations and reflection (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37573760)

I am one of the affected employees.

Of the 3,500 people, 2,200 is the factory in Romania; the production there will be moved closer to the market in Asia. The rest 1,300 is mostly Location & Commerce, which is basically Navteq and the former ex-Services/Solutions/Software division joined.

This change has relatively little to do with the decision to go with WP7, much as people here like to bash that (and I love MeeGo myself). Even if the choice had been MeeGo instead of WP7, I suspect these layoffs would've been done anyway, because they're part of the streamlining strategy announced in April 2011. At the same time as people are getting laid of, some of the mentioned big sites are actually hiring a little (mostly internal transfers of course, I could probably find a position if I was willing to move to another country).

And yes, it's a painful result of mis-management, but the underlying reasons are far older than the 1 year the current CEO has been around... Not that I didn't wish and hope there was another way found to fix things (maybe there was, but it was not chosen, because it would've been less effective and more expensive - this is just me speculating). At least in Finland and Germany the job situation is not that bad, in Romania I can't imagine how it will be when one town suddenly gets that many unemployed people at once.

What Windoze Fone 7 really means (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37574474)

Windoze Fone 7 really means "kiss of death". So long Nokia, it were nice knowin' ya.

Re:What Windoze Fone 7 really means (1)

md65536 (670240) | more than 2 years ago | (#37574712)

Windoze Fone 7 really means "kiss of death". So long Nokia, it were nice knowin' ya.

Looks like MS is extending its "of death" brand into new markets.

Re:What Windoze Fone 7 really means (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37575960)

Windoze Fone

wow, this brilliant wit even beats the ingenious M$. No arguing with people like this.

Meltemi - NOKIA's new Linux OS (1)

mene (1660015) | more than 2 years ago | (#37575374)

Well, one can't blame NOKIA (or at least the sane management/engineers still left) blame for not trying: Say hello to "Meltemi" - NOKIA's new LInux-based OS for feature phones: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/09/is-nokias-s40-replacement-os-a-defense-against-android-feature-phones.ars [arstechnica.com]

Re:Meltemi - NOKIA's new Linux OS (1)

TeknoHog (164938) | more than 2 years ago | (#37577964)

So it's Windows for "smart"phones and Linux for the "dumb". Nice Redmond marketing there.

A year without a Nokia layoff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37575720)

Is like not having Christmas! Merry Lutheran Christmas!

They should have chosen Android (1)

satuon (1822492) | more than 2 years ago | (#37576044)

I still don't understand why they didn't choose Android. Nokia is known as a phone maker, not as an OS maker, so using a third-party commoditized OS wouldn't have hurt their brand. A Nokia phone would still have been a Nokia phone.

Just what is Nokia's strategy with the N9 (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#37576190)

A bit of background info: Nokia once thought to have Maemo/MeeGo (Linux) as its OS for its highend phones (replacing symbian), keep Symbian for the midrange feature phones (not quite smart phones) and S40 for the low end.

The N900 was that high end phone and it sold out. Whether that means it did well is hard to say, after all if you produce one unit and you sell it, you are sold out, but still, there was a demand. The N900 was however a trial phone, it was deliberately made to be a developers phone to test the market. The market liked it.

So there was going to be a successor that would be slicker. First it was supposed to have a physical keyboard but eventually it became the N9.

So... where to launch that phone? In the west where the N900 sold out and where people have the money for a high end phone? Nah... I don't know where it sells but so far it seems to be nowhere.

You produce a phone, have units of it created and then just don't sell it in the west at all. That is a strategy that can't be explained by just being a but stupid or misguided. NOT selling a major highend phone in the places it could do well cannot be anything but deliberate move to have it fail. "See Linux don't sell on phones? We put them on the market at 900 dollars in a refuge camp in Somalia and not a single one sold. PROOF!"

Companies are ultimately run by people who are perfectly capable of making really stupid decissions. But somehow when it comes to malice we presume companies to be machines. I think only someone with a clear agenda could make such a dumb decission. The N9 isn't going to the company any more, its costs have already been made. Even if you are not convinced of its success, a normal person would just sell it and see what happens. To deliberately sabotage it needs an agenda. Can anyone think of anyone who recently started at Nokia who might have an agenda?

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