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Sony Bringing PSN Pass To All First-Party Games

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the do-not-want dept.

DRM 271

New submitter zeroshade writes "Sony has confirmed that going forward, all first-party games will use the PSN Pass to force used game buyers to pay an extra $10 just for the right to play the multiplayer component of used games they buy for the PS3."

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271 comments

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Go away customers! (5, Insightful)

Eightbitgnosis (1571875) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609196)

Whats with you buying or product? Stop doing that!

Re:Go away customers! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609484)

How is someone who buys a game used a customer of Sony?

Re:Go away customers! (3, Insightful)

skapaft (2367782) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609564)

The guy who buys the used game might not be a direct customer, but the original customer who bought it new might be interested in whether there is a good second hand market to sell it on to once he's done with it, and how much money he can get back by doing so.

Re:Go away customers! (2)

Eightbitgnosis (1571875) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609568)

I was thinking more in the sense that this would further alienate their customer base as a whole

Re:Go away customers! (1)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610374)

I came to this thread to moderate, but screw it.

If they weren't alienated by all of Sony's shenanigans by now they never will be. Some people will put up with anything. Me, I stopped buying Sony way back when they rooted my PC with XCP.

Re:Go away customers! (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609580)

How is someone buying a used auto a customer of Ford?

If auto dealers did something like this they'd lose customers since people would lose resale value and lose confidence in the maker. Buying a used game from Sony does not mean you will never have interesting in buying a new game from them or that you won't tell other friends about a game that you like.

Re:Go away customers! (2)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609746)

If auto dealers did something like this they'd lose customers since people would lose resale value and lose confidence in the maker.

It's like saying that when you buy a used Ford, you don't get the manufacturers 3 year / 30,000 mile warranty.

At the moment, game servers are an open-ended cost - you have no idea how long your game is going to be popular for. Some (pay once) PC games continue for years past their initial release, and the publisher has to balance a potential loss of goodwill with the costs of running servers.

It doesn't seem unreasonable ; but really, I'd prefer it if the base game cost $10 less and *everyone* had to shell out the same to play the online game. But that isn't going to happen, because then you'd have the usual "hey, my game doesn't work" complaints.

Re:Go away customers! (2)

Captain Hook (923766) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609992)

There was a time when all of those multiplayer games were hosted by the gamers themselves, in some form or other.

The only reason games companies even have the costs associated with running online servers for years after the game was sold is because they decided they wanted a slice of the dedicated server market and so took away the ability of players to host their own games.

Re:Go away customers! (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610214)

And clearly, it's working. There absolutely aren't any utilities to facilitate LAN play with Starcraft 2. Modern Warfare 2 doesn't have any dedicated servers. Starsiege TRIBES multiplayer was gone forever once the master servers went down.

Re:Go away customers! (1)

LocalH (28506) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610242)

Because they presumably own the hardware to play the game on, and they presumably may buy certain games brand new. Why does Sony hate freedom?

Re:Go away customers! (1)

ciderbrew (1860166) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609648)

People will keep on buying and accept that's the way it is. I want to change your +1 Insightful to +1 very sad.

Re:Go away customers! (1)

Gideon Wells (1412675) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610298)

You know, you are right. Every time I just about break down and buy a PS3 Sony goes and does something like this.

Drake's Fortune is still in line of pricing for other PS3 new releases so it isn't like they are making the game cheaper for those not using multi-player. Being first party they could just raise the price if they wanted more money. Basically this comes down to one of two things:
* Just as part of scheme to make money off of each resale. Again a war on used games.
* Sony wants to bring Airline style pricing to the video game market. Sure, the ticket is one cost, but don't forget to count all the fees, extras, etc.?

So now I have to pay $10.. (1)

assemblerex (1275164) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609212)

.to be called a verbally abused by 13 year olds? Amazing.

lolwut (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609250)

Your pitiful attempt at constructing a sentence seems to suggest you are age 7 or so.

Get back in bed.

Re:So now I have to pay $10.. (1)

Shoe Puppet (1557239) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610074)

If you're gaming online and someone claims you're being verbally abused, they're probably right.

PS users, don't be pissed of (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609238)

You bought into a DRM scheme. You were stupid, now you learned the hard way. Consider this a tuition fee and don't be stupid again.

Re:PS users, don't be pissed of (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609338)

You bought into a DRM scheme. You were stupid, now you learned the hard way. Consider this a tuition fee and don't be stupid again.

I don't know about stupid. Many people are ignorant about the issues. Myself, in a moment of weakness, I forgot not to suck satans cock for a while. I wanted to give the significant other something to casually game with that would "just work". Linux and company are not quite up there with regards to things like Final Fantasy, yet.

I don't know if I should have caved for the convenience, though. Every once in a while it turns my stomach a little bit that the machine forces me to upgrade stuff, or that I should pay for themes for it and other ridiculous things they can do because they're non-free. Or shit like this story right here.

Re:PS users, don't be pissed of (1)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609482)

>>You bought into a DRM scheme. You were stupid, now you learned the hard way. Consider this a tuition fee and don't be stupid again.

DRM scheme?

Most people bought the PS3 (or prefer buying PS3 versions of games over Xbox 360) precisely *because* multiplayer is free, and XBL always seemed to be a greedy grasp for money.

With this move (which will just annoy me, as I hate punching in those tediously long codes every time I buy a game now) the PS3 has lost its only competitive advantage over the Xbox.

Alongside the recent TOS change (secretly forcing people to agree that they won't sue or disabling their ability to update and go online), well, Fuck Sony,

Re:PS users, don't be pissed of (1)

Hadlock (143607) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609600)

The multiplayer is still free.... as long as you buy the game new.

If you buy the game used, you pay a one time "used game tax" of $10 per title. This isn't a reoccurring fee like it is with Xbox Live. That's a dramatic difference.

Re:PS users, don't be pissed of (1)

GNious (953874) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609710)

Think that might be backward...

If you SELL the game used, you'll get 10 USD less from the store, who'll have to sell it 10 USD cheaper on to the next person to offset the 10 USD Sony will be demanding.
Admittedly, it may end up that that the store resells the used game at the current rate, but pretty sure they'll use this as an excuse to pay less for the used game.

Re:PS users, don't be pissed of (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610070)

The multiplayer is still free.... as long as you buy the game new.

If you buy the game used, you pay a one time "used game tax" of $10 per title. This isn't a reoccurring fee like it is with Xbox Live. That's a dramatic difference.

I totally agree, what I don't understand is why are people ok with Steam and other PC Games publishers practising this but get their knickers all bunched up when consoles try to follow the same DRM model.

Cheaper second hand games with an optional $10 fee to play them online seems totally reasonable to me, but I tend to keep the games I buy, and buy them brand new.

Re:PS users, don't be pissed of (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609836)

With this move (which will just annoy me, as I hate punching in those tediously long codes every time I buy a game now) the PS3 has lost its only competitive advantage over the Xbox.

Well it hasn't really. If you buy brand new games it's no different. It's only second hand sales which are affected.

However I think it is very likely that if second hand games are effectively hobbled that they'll retail for less to compensate for the price of reactivation. So a game which might have retailed for $50 second hand might retail for $40 if it's substantially a multiplayer title. The main losers here will be people selling (not buying) second hand games and the likes of Gamestop for slapping such a high markup on second hand games in the first place.

I'd also not be so sure that Microsoft won't do something similar. At the end of the day it's basically a way to squelch second hand sales and claw back some of the money that otherwise goes into Gamestop's pocket.

This month's PS fail (0)

theKingofShit (1994406) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609248)

I've been thinking about which Sony WTF I will state as this year's epic WTF in my top 10. The candidate list is getting a bit too long. Security breach? Month and a half outage in services? Anti-lawsuit EULA? Punishment for consumers who buy used games? SE Xperia x10 mini not getting updates? Instead of listing one of Sony's greatest hit in 2011's WTF-listings, i suggest we should list top ten of Sony Fails fot this year... I just wish there would be gaming console that's manufacturer isn't straight from hell.

Re:This month's PS fail (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610092)

I've been thinking about which Sony WTF I will state as this year's epic WTF in my top 10. The candidate list is getting a bit too long. Security breach? Month and a half outage in services? Anti-lawsuit EULA? Punishment for consumers who buy used games? SE Xperia x10 mini not getting updates?

Instead of listing one of Sony's greatest hit in 2011's WTF-listings, i suggest we should list top ten of Sony Fails fot this year...

I just wish there would be gaming console that's manufacturer isn't straight from hell.

There just aren't that many manufacturers who are willing to out of pocket subsidize gaming hardware, unfortunately, so I don't see too much competition in the console space in the near future.

Re:This month's PS fail (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610296)

...and that's only 2011.

As a company they don't seem to actually want any customers.

Thanks Sony (2)

Vskye (9079) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609270)

It's just confirms that I won't be purchasing anything from you, ever. Good job killing your potential customers.

Re:Thanks Sony (1)

techsoldaten (309296) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609356)

When they took away my Linux on the PS3, I stopped buying games. It's just a very expensive DVD player at this point, and I don't buy too many DVDs.

Re:Thanks Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609498)

Serves you right for supporting a company like Sony.

Re:Thanks Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609370)

Same for me. OTOH, the PSP and PS3 have not had any new interesting games since Killzone, Loco Roco and Little big planet(s). If the sales sucks, perhaps Sony should try to put out better games instead of robbing the few customers still left on the platform.

Re:Thanks Sony (1)

Tukz (664339) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609400)

You DO realise that this have been the norm on PC for ages, right?
When you buy second hand PC games, a lot of them doesn't include mulitplayer, because the key is already used in activating an on-line multiplayer account.

Some already charge to give you a new key to create a multiplayer account for your second hand purchased games, it was even on ./ a few times.

The only difference here seems to be that Sony is forcing it on all their games, whereas on PC it's up to the publisher.

Re:Thanks Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609516)

You DO realise that this have been the norm on PC for ages, right?

I never had trouble buying PC games off of ebay. The serial keys always worked. Then again I made sure to ignore games that are bound to online accounts like Steam (which are more of a recent development anyway).

Re:Thanks Sony (1)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609778)

It used to be that the key was just to prevent multiple simultaneous users of the same license key, which was eminently reasonable, until someone started using a duplicate of your key, locking you out of game servers...

More recently, the keys are bound to online accounts and are not transferrable.

The recent instances where there is bonus content enclosed with the original game with a 1-time key is actually an improvement on this ; you can still re-sell the game, something you cannot do for games that bind to your Steam account. Although I think we need some kind of escrow system for re-sale because there are still limited uses of those primary game keys. Having gone to the insane limits of DRM, EA are actually backing off somewhat. Perhaps they've even been paying attention to the gaming press. At least they aren't trying out the always-on-net DRM that Ubisoft have made such a bad name for themselves with.

Sony is forcing it on all their games, whereas on PC it's up to the publisher.

AFAIK, "first party" means "games published by Sony". So it's still up to the publisher.

To be honest, I'm happy for them to stick it to the second-hand traders. Games cost more to produce all the time, yet the prices change very little with respect to inflation. Second-hand trade contributes nothing to the funds of developers. While I'm not optimistic that all the gains here will find themselves funding new and exciting game concepts... it can't hurt. Even if it's just a case of "hey, our games bottom line is great, let's throw some R&D money their way".

Re:Thanks Sony (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610104)

You DO realise that this have been the norm on PC for ages, right?
When you buy second hand PC games, a lot of them doesn't include mulitplayer, because the key is already used in activating an on-line multiplayer account.

Some already charge to give you a new key to create a multiplayer account for your second hand purchased games, it was even on ./ a few times.

The only difference here seems to be that Sony is forcing it on all their games, whereas on PC it's up to the publisher.

PC games retail at similar price points as console titles, and the hardware isn't subsidized by the manufacturer / publisher. In many cases now, you can't even resell your games when you're done with them, let alone access multiplayer content on second hand games, even if you were willing to pay the publishers to do it.

Re:Thanks Sony (1)

staticneuron (975073) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610142)

The only difference? Read again. Sony is putting this on all "FIRST PARTY" games. Which means Sony is the publisher of those games. Doesn't seem any different from PC now does it?

Re:Thanks Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37610248)

The only difference here seems to be that Sony is forcing it on all their games, whereas on PC it's up to the publisher.

Correction

all first-party games

In other words, games for which Sony is the publisher.

Re:Thanks Sony (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609888)

It's just confirms that I won't be purchasing anything from you, ever. Good job killing your potential customers.

Except the issue here is you're not purchasing something from Sony. If you buy a second hand game from Gamestop, Sony (or EA, Microsoft et al) is not seeing a penny of that but they still have to host your ass when you turn up to play the multiplayer.

Now one could argue that the guy who bought the game in the first place paid for your multiplayer spot. The counterargument to Sony (et al) is that if two or more people play on their service in succession that it increases the amount of time that the same number of servers have to be kept running. Running servers costs money and therefore they want to claw some of that back.

Just lost a customer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609272)

Sony just lost a customer, I will not buy any game console or game that has anything to do with them. They really do seem to be trying to go for worst evil company in the world. Be good if some big countries banned any games that don't allow legal resale without paying more. Guess I'll keep to PC gaming from now on.

Re:Just lost a customer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609828)

Don't let the PSN Pass bite you on the ass on the way out.

Thank you, hacker retards. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609282)

PSN Pass is the direct result of the PS3 security being hacked some time ago.

You had retards running around with patched versions of COD that didn't do -any- online checking of any kind (why would they? PSN was secure once upon a time). So you could get away with things like infinite health, speed hacks, weapon mods, just about anything- all handled by a locally patched version of the game.

Problem is, Sony got their stuff together and re-secured the console. They had to.

But we're still stuck with the fallout of all those hypocritical retards who said they were just in it for the "backups". Yeah, right, and the ability to pirate games, patch games, and generally ruin everything for all us legit customers. Well, congratulations, retards, you've even managed to make Sony think that they can get away with this bullshit. So you double win. It's even over 9000.

I swear to god, Microsoft keeps adding stuff and refining their experience, where Sony does the complete opposite.

Time to hit Craigslist me thinks.

-AC

Re:Thank you, hacker retards. (2)

Jiro (131519) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609296)

Sony doesn't consider a buyer of used games to be a legitimate customer, since a used game gives Sony no income. Piracy has nothing to do with this, except that it's something else which also gives Sony no income but which sounds better to complain about in press releases.

Re:Thank you, hacker retards. (2)

Kryptonian Jor-El (970056) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609426)

I hate this misconception. As much money as Sony makes, you'd hope they'd be paying for intelligent board members. Sure, 2nd and 3rd sales provide no direct income for Sony, but the ability to resell the games gives them higher value, allowing sony to charge $60 a pop. This is removing value from the product, and the price should drop accordingly...but it won't. Imagine is you couldn't resell your car, without the new buyer having to pay the 'Ford' fee. Normally your $20,000 car sells for $10,000 after a few years, but Ford requires $5,000 to make new keys. Well now you can only feasibly sell your car for $5,000, but Ford still sells them new for $20,000

Re:Thank you, hacker retards. (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610002)

Long story short, people are worse at recognizing value reductions than cost increases. That's why in stores food comes in smaller and smaller packages until a new "economy size" package is introduced. That is why politicians create tons of product and service taxes rather than increase the income tax. They'd rather take resale value out of the game than increase prices and people will protest less.

Re:Thank you, hacker retards. (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610148)

Sony doesn't consider a buyer of used games to be a legitimate customer, since a used game gives Sony no income. Piracy has nothing to do with this, except that it's something else which also gives Sony no income but which sounds better to complain about in press releases.

There is actually an upside to this practice, anti-social (cheating, verbally abusive players etc) will have to pony up an additional $10 each time their content ID is banned or blacklisted from online play.

The laws and restrictions on the resale market of games and movies are way more relaxed in the USA than the rest of the world, for some reason the consumer rights are far better than anywhere else in the world when it comes to the resale of games and movies.

Re:Thank you, hacker retards. (1)

Servaas (1050156) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610344)

That's why I always go with the "If they wanna complain GIVE them something to complain about." It's this nickle and dimming that's causing me to not pay for any games, oh and thanks for your hardware you sold me at a loss.

Re:Thank you, hacker retards. (2)

theKingofShit (1994406) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609306)

Hmmmm... So you are suggesting that this is all because handful of individuals who are rotten? And it has nothing to do with good old corporate greed?

Re:Thank you, hacker retards. (1)

Sarusa (104047) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609388)

Fffft, this has nothing to do with piracy, which is miniscule because most people are too lazy, and everything to do with used game sales.

Re:Thank you, hacker retards. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609420)

I know! Your comment is a very long and subtle soviet-russia joke, right?

For example, about MS... Hello! Xbox multiplayer always required subscription, asshole.

And about blaming the hackers and whatnot: Fuck you! Even if the hackers are bad, that's like blaming snow for people freezing to death when you don't let them have houses or something. No, fuck Sony for what Sony does! I hope your not as stupid a human as your comment indicates and that you're just pretending to say stupid shit for trolling.

Re:Thank you, hacker retards. (1)

greg1104 (461138) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609540)

PSN was never secure. It just wasn't obvious yet where the insecure pieces were at earlier. Have you considered that the idiot executives who said the platform was safe at any level were the real problem here? They should have been all kinds of nervous about the sheer number of ways their data was insufficiently secure. Instead they were arrogant and decided to challenge people with real hacking stills to come rumble with them. There was no question who is going to get the beatdown when it's pirates vs. corporate types. It's not even fair.

Welcome to PC gaming, console users. (1)

zcomuto (1700174) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609290)

PC gamers were introduced to serial codes yonks ago, and compared to modern DRM I'd be happy with what the PS3 is about to get. I can only fear for what security measures future consoles have, and I can see it only being a matter of time before there's a console that requires an active internet connection before it will even turn on.

Still, I'm a PC gamer and someone who prefers to buy games, first hand, than pirate or buy pre-owned. If I enjoy a game, the developer deserves my money. However, if a developer does not let me play a game, why should I give them anything?

In regards to the whole jumping on the $10 preowned thingy bandwagon, I wonder how much of it is just money-grabbing seeing as its a virtually cost-free way to make a little extra, rather than Sony genuinely fearing their business will end up collapsing due to some second hand sales.

Re:Welcome to PC gaming, console users. (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609602)

I haven't seen serial codes on PC games, though I see a lot of DRM. I avoid DRM if I can. I don't do multiplayer competitive games so maybe this goofiness is more common there.

Re:Welcome to PC gaming, console users. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609674)

Every multiplayer game on PC has serial codes.

Re:Welcome to PC gaming, console users. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37610216)

I haven't seen serial codes on PC games, though I see a lot of DRM. I avoid DRM if I can. I don't do multiplayer competitive games so maybe this goofiness is more common there.

You probably haven't bought a PC game in over 10 years then.

This is really about revenue generation (1)

ernest.cunningham (972490) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609328)

I honestly believe when you buy software (or licenses to use software as you do when you buy a game etc) you should be given the same rights as the original owner. If they cared more about allowing only one person at a time to use the software, then they should make it so that once a new user enters the original code, the previous user loses rights to MP. That would surely cut out piracy fears as only one code would be generated for the original purchaser who bought the game. They have control of the network, so they would be able to control the single use of the serial (or pass code or whatever they want to call it). That would kick piracy in the bum as well as control swapping of games.

Re:This is really about revenue generation (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609528)

I regularly do LAN parties where 1 person will bring a PS3 and 3 or 4 will bring games. This will require that everyone that has a game at home will need to bring their own PS3 with them as well. This fucks up a lot more than re-selling of games.

Re:This is really about revenue generation (1)

ernest.cunningham (972490) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609644)

They could bring their profiles? or sign in with their profile for the multiplayer part? Under their current method you would have to pay $10 for each of the games your friends bring around to play if they are different to those that you the host play. If they are the same then my suggestion also works in that you would have already had a code to play with your game. So no difference. Personally I think they should just lump it and not charge at all, but they are.

Re:This is really about revenue generation (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610162)

I regularly do LAN parties where 1 person will bring a PS3 and 3 or 4 will bring games. This will require that everyone that has a game at home will need to bring their own PS3 with them as well. This fucks up a lot more than re-selling of games.

It's more likely to be tied to their PSN ID than the actual console itself. I don't think you can connect to the PSN with the same account multiple times, but I might be wrong.

PSN costs Sony money... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609334)

As much as I laugh at Sony, remember that hosting PSN and the like costs Sony (or any similar company/service) a lot of money. Those costs are factored in to the price of the games with an estimate of how long the average user is expected to use PSN services (i.e. how much will it cost Sony). When somebody buys a secondhand game, chances are they will be a "new player" to the game, thus will be using PSN very regularly. So you now have 2 customers using the resources budgeted (financially) for one. Gets even worse as more and more pre-owned games are sold.

On the otherhand, I very much doubt it costs Sony $10 per customer.

Re:PSN costs Sony money... (1)

TFAFalcon (1839122) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609970)

Then why not make the original game 10$ cheaper, but disable the MP until the player pays an extra fee?

Re:PSN costs Sony money... (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610220)

Then why not make the original game 10$ cheaper, but disable the MP until the player pays an extra fee?

Isn't this the Microsoft model essentially? except for the part where the original game isn't $10 cheaper..

Sony will stop hitting you soon. No really. (-1, Troll)

Sarusa (104047) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609340)

You should consider that when Sony's so willing to just casually announce they're going to beat you tonight it might be time to look elsewhere.

Yes, I realize Microsoft and Nintendo beat you too. So do EA and Activision-Blizzard, and... really, the only large company that isn't abusive and is willing to treat you like a human being is Valve. Zenimax/Bethesda is usually nice, but then they do something totally f#4ing dickly like suing Mojang for using 'Scrolls' in a completely unrelated context. Isn't it scary when a nice guy goes psycho?

But only Sony is so willing to rub your goddamn face in it with stuff like this, the new PSN EULA that says you have no goddamn rights whatsoever you pathetic turd, disabling USB, disabling OtherOS, disabling PS2 emulation, blah blah blah. Because they know you're a loser and worthless without them.

And you, the loser that you are, just sob 'Oh God, Sony, thank you so much for caring about me so goddamn much that you're willing to keep hitting me. Please don't ever leave me, or I might have to go to Nintendo or Microsoft or Valve, and they're just not as COOL because they don't hit me as hard.'

Maybe it's time to start playing the field.

Re:Sony will stop hitting you soon. No really. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609594)

Ah, the hallowed Valve. Always-online, account-locked, resource-wasting, bug-ridden, spying DRM is totally fine as long as it's Steam. It's not evil if Valve does it! Totally different!!1

Once you look beyond the few major publishers, things actually get quite pleasant. Compared to pretty much all smaller ones (and I don't mean just obscure Indies), Valve/Steam still is a restrictive, locked-down abomination.

Re:Sony will stop hitting you soon. No really. (1)

Sarusa (104047) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609626)

Yeah, well, small fry like Good Old Games or Indie Pack are even nicer. That's why I specified LARGE.

But at the large company level Valve is a great compared to someone like Activision-Blizzard, MS, or Sony. They let me do things with my games (like mod them) that nobody else is willing to do, or sell them so cheaply it doesn't matter, or constantly update stuff that I bought years ago for free. It's all sadly relative.

Re:Sony will stop hitting you soon. No really. (0)

Sarusa (104047) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609660)

Man, fuck you nimrods with moderation points - there needs to be a meta-moderation death penalty for stupid use of the Troll moderation category.

I can be abrasive as all fucking hell, and I may be completely wrong in what I'm saying, but if I were merely trolling you I wouldn't need to be nearly so self-indulgently verbose, and I am 100% serious in what I'm saying. Even when I'm saying it in a way guaranteed to grate on you when you're the category of willful victim I'm targeting, it's sincere.

Saying something you desperately don't want to hear is not the same as trolling you. Learn the difference, if you can with your fingers jammed so far into your ears they're raping your cortex.

Re:Sony will stop hitting you soon. No really. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37610326)

Karma police, arrest this man.

Re:Sony will stop hitting you soon. No really. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37610370)

Man, fuck you nimrods with moderation points - there needs to be a meta-moderation death penalty for stupid use of the Troll moderation category.

I can be abrasive as all fucking hell, and I may be completely wrong in what I'm saying, but if I were merely trolling you I wouldn't need to be nearly so self-indulgently verbose, and I am 100% serious in what I'm saying. Even when I'm saying it in a way guaranteed to grate on you when you're the category of willful victim I'm targeting, it's sincere.

Saying something you desperately don't want to hear is not the same as trolling you. Learn the difference, if you can with your fingers jammed so far into your ears they're raping your cortex.

Meh I'm in agreement with the moderator, you're a troll. The fact that you apparently deeply cling to those beliefs changes nothing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) [wikipedia.org]

Sony: I dare you to hack us again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609346)

I shall taunt you a second time you legion of users who now have nothing better to do than to find ways to bring our company to the ground.
I have a ps3 and it just gathers dust now.

Got it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609376)

Lesson learned: Don't buy sony consoles or games.

Thank you for saving me money sony.

The cheek of it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609408)

Hmmm I wonder exactly how much of this $10 will actually go to the developers!!!

After listening to many rants regarding this at 2010's Develop and evolve conferance I do understand the problem and agree that the developers should get a return when a second hand game is sold, this is an investment in the continued improvement of the games development industry, but most of the selling of second hand games is done by large scale companies such as game, blockbuster, game station, play-trade, game spot...etc etc.

Why don't they make the second hand retailers give the developers 10% of the revenue made from the selling of these second-hand titles??!! It’s unfair that the consumer is the one that always suffers!

Re:The cheek of it! (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609502)

I do understand the problem and agree that the developers should get a return when a second hand game is sold,

Why?

The problem is self-limiting. The number of used games available at any given time will be lower than the total number of new games sold, and few copies are resold several times. The publishers could deal with it themselves by gradually reducing the price over time.

Book, DVD, record and toy manufacturers don't expect a cut of second hand sales. Why are video games so different?

And of course, this does indirectly benefit the developers. What do you think kids do with the money they get from selling games?

Re:The cheek of it! (1)

mehrotra.akash (1539473) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610056)

Unlike toys,etc the games dont degrade, get broken,etc..

Re:The cheek of it! (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610232)

They do become obsolete though. Retrogaming is a niche hobby. A lot more people will have played Portal 2 this year than Final Fantasy XII, and that's only 5 years old.

And what about books and DVDs. And power tools for that matter?

Re:The cheek of it! (1)

mehrotra.akash (1539473) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610342)


But a lot of people still play NFS 2, NFS MW,CS1.6,Mario (the 8 bit version),Dave,etc..
books wear out after being read 2-3 times
DVD's cost almost the same (sometimes even more) as games, but give you much less than a game, so the additional profits are already built into the price.

Glad I skipped this generation of consoles (1)

GoodNewsJimDotCom (2244874) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609410)

Between Xbox live online forcing you to pay yearly, and now PS3 wanting you to pay extra for used games, there simply is not a free online solution like you get with PC. So as much as my friends want me to play online with them. I'll just tell them no, and wait for the next generation of consoles.

Re:Glad I skipped this generation of consoles (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609546)

You think the next generation of consoles will be any different?

Re:Glad I skipped this generation of consoles (1)

dltaylor (7510) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609780)

Just more complete.

You will be required to present fully nude images of yourself and everyone else in a ten-block vicinity before the console will progress beyond the EULA screen, and grant a perpetual, re-assignable copyright to the console maker for the images, so they can make a few more bucks on the side

Login validation will require that all players present the same image.

Re:Glad I skipped this generation of consoles (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610196)

Between Xbox live online forcing you to pay yearly, and now PS3 wanting you to pay extra for used games, there simply is not a free online solution like you get with PC. So as much as my friends want me to play online with them. I'll just tell them no, and wait for the next generation of consoles.

Your tradeoff is, now almost all the PC games you play free online have no resale value whatsoever..I don't see how that isn't worse than having to pay $10 to get online multiplayer features in a game you bought second hand, and can resell afterwards.

DOn't care (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609448)

Online games are shite anyway.

To be honest, I'm not against this. (2)

flimflammer (956759) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609454)

I don't have any modern consoles (got out of it this generation), but I don't see this as an earth shattering moment. This is good for developers who have to continuously pay to keep these online services running. Whether they intended to keep them running till a certain date or not, selling a used game to someone else gives another person access to the online services without giving the developers anything in return, which costs the developer extra money (no matter how little or much it may be). I think when you have an online component like this, the developer aught to get something in return for the use of their services considering you wouldn't have paid them a dime otherwise. I'm not sure I think it should be $10 (I would see something more in the line of $5 but whatever)

It just makes sense from their point of view and also to some others out there who are looking at it objectively.

I do expect to be modded down for this (I don't blame you, since this is such a controversial thing these days) but it's just how I feel about it.

Carification (2)

cyclomedia (882859) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609478)

Selling a used game to someone else does NOT give another person access. It TRANSFERS access from one person to another. The total number of players has not gone up.

Re:Carification (1)

flimflammer (956759) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609506)

I realize this, however in the original case the user would have stopped playing and server load would have gone down. In the case of a second hand sale, the company has to support the new users play habits while receiving nothing extra in return. I do understand your point of view, however, that the company should assume one sale means that game can/will be used until the servers go down, but that rarely ever happens.

Re:Carification (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609694)

As I understand it, most console games don't use dedicated servers. All of the "server load" is provided by the player's own consoles and internet connections. All the developer/Sony has to do is provide a matchmaking service so players can see each other. I doubt very seriously that it costs substantial additional money to match up some extra players who were late to the party than to run an empty room. I would guess that if does cost them additional money, it would be extremely inconsequential. Certainly not along the lines of $10/person.

What used games DO is attract a larger player base, keeping the multiplayer healthy for longer and allowing them to continue to sell additional copies of the game.

Re:Carification (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609614)

Game developers estimate how long each individual player will play the game online before moving on to something else. For example id Software might estimate that the average Rage player will play for 10 hours a week, tailing off to zero over six months. This combined with the sales curve (should) give you an estimate of how many servers you will need and for how long.

Used game sales screw this up because a copy game which would have been used for X hours is now being used for X * number_of_times_game_is_resold hours.

Re:Carification (1)

staticneuron (975073) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610140)

Attrition. It is expected that at some point in time interest wanes and the game players move on to different things. It is extremely easy to see accounts that are added and used alot after the time the estimate for decline.Normally the publishers handle the costs and they constantly crank out products that may need attention as well. It becomes a numbers game.

Re:To be honest, I'm not against this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609592)

If they planned on running the online server for only a few years than shutting them down because noone would play on it then they had wrong assumptions to begin with. There is a great number of people playing old games. If they can't afford public servers, just enable directip.

Re:To be honest, I'm not against this. (1)

funkatron (912521) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609688)

It just makes sense from their point of view and also to some others out there who are looking at it objectively.

Guess who's point of view I have!

Seriously; the moaning about (and now charging for) the second hand games market like it's some sort of non-legit activity is a pretty big anti-consumer move on Sony's (and other publisher's) part.

Re:To be honest, I'm not against this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609692)

Oh yeah, you are totally right of course!

Let's shatter the used cat market, because car manufacturers don't get their toll when used cars are sold to totally strange people... not to forget that manufacturers have no control over this sale and of course need it to make further money.

Marketing has worked great on your brain, you are a drone that is happy to loose its basic rights so it can be remotely controlled....

Re:To be honest, I'm not against this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609754)

Your analogy is missing the part where a used car sale increases the upkeep cost for the car manufacturer.

Re:To be honest, I'm not against this. (1)

ConaxConax (1886430) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610170)

Games companies chose to do and have steadily eroded the ability to have a player run dedicated server. They opted to pay these costs, no-one made them do it.

Re:To be honest, I'm not against this. (0)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609806)

Let's shatter the used cat market,

Why would there be ANY used cat market? How are they useful after you scrape them out of your boots' treads?

Does this mean I can get single player cheaper? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609470)

Then if I'm not going to play the multiplayer part of the game, will you give me a $10 discount? No?

Re:Does this mean I can get single player cheaper? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609524)

The silver lining to this money grab is that it should depress the value of used games for people who don't want multiplayer. If this is your thing, you've just gotten even more incentive to wait for games to hit the used bin before buying.

People are not thinking of.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609534)

This will kill things like Gamefly, or other game rentals.

when some stupid guy gives a fart... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37609766)

Looks like sony has got some stupid guy who made some stupid decisions, who will be kicked out of his chair, when sony cries about lack of cash. I hope, sony dies and comes alive opensource. This is the only way to survive stupid marketing decisions.

Antisocial gaming for the win! (3, Interesting)

MacTO (1161105) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609786)

I don't blame them for doing this, since they are businesses and businesses are out to make a profit. I don't even blame the greed because they are providing a service and they calculate their revenues based upon a single purchaser (and not subsequent purchases of the title second hand).

On the other hand, when it comes to gaming, I'm definitely a consumer. As a consumer, I don't want to spend more than I have to and that includes paying for access to servers for multiplayer games. So don't expect me to buy in to this scheme.

Hell, don't expect me to pay into this scheme even if I had money to burn since I prefer single player games to social gaming and I prefer to social gaming to multiplayer games. Which basically means that I'll take a PS3 when I want to have some fun, a Nintendo when I want to enjoy a game with friend, and basically don't care about this scheme because I don't give a damn about playing 'alone' against human opponents who I will never meet.

Of course, your opinion may differ. But I don't care. When I game it's about me (and maybe my real life friends).

Re:Antisocial gaming for the win! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37610166)

Oh, you think that you are going to be able to play single player games without a PSN pass?
How else are they going to prevent piracy if poeple are allowed to play without being connected?!

meh! (1)

Going_Digital (1485615) | more than 2 years ago | (#37609986)

meh, who cares sony is irrelevant thee days to me anyway. I stopped buying games when they pulled the Linux support and now the PS3 is nothing more than a blu-ray player. Sony have already done plenty enough to turn me away so like many I imagine I simply won't be buying in to any future Sony systems.

Sony just go away already (1)

kbg (241421) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610050)

Why are people still buying Sony products? I stopped after the rootkit fiasco and haven't bought a Sony product since 2005, and I always recommend not buying Sony products to all my friends and families. It must be so obvious now to anyone that the company is just greedy bastards who make mediocre products and just wants to fuck up it's customers for profit.

I'm on the fence here... (1)

mykos (1627575) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610192)

We used to call someone who profits from someone else's intellectual property (without giving the creator a single cent) a pirate. Today, people who do that are known as Gamestop. As much as I hate Sony, at least they're in the business of creating games. Gamestop is in the business of being in business.

It's a good thing.. (1)

n30na (1525807) | more than 2 years ago | (#37610356)

that I have little intent of playing console games online anytime soon.
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