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Samsung Seeking Ban of iPhone 4S in Europe

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the no-4s-for-you dept.

Iphone 331

First time accepted submitter KingofSpades writes "Samsung has announced that they will try to stop the sale of Apple Inc.'s iPhone 4S in France and Italy. Samsung believes that Apple is 'severely violating' some of their patents. From the article: 'Samsung will file motions with courts in Paris and Milan seeking the ban, each citing two patent infringements on wireless telecommunications technology, the Suwon, South Korea- based company said in an e-mailed statement yesterday. Apple unveiled the iPhone 4S in Cupertino, California this week and aims to start sales later this month.'"

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Round 3 (2, Funny)

Moheeheeko (1682914) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615674)

FIGHT

Re:Round 3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37615712)

Great times to be a lawyer specialized in IP and patents

Re:Round 3 (2, Insightful)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616316)

Needs a "popcorn" tag!

Stuff like this keeps Slashdot in business... Way better than discussing the betterment of humanity with Ipen Sources.

Re:Round 3 (2)

Calydor (739835) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616502)

I see what you did there, Apple shill. ;-)

Patents are bad... (0, Offtopic)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615692)

Patents are bad... .... except for when they hurt Apple. :)

Re:Patents are bad... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37615752)

You're a poor excuse for a human being.

Re:Patents are bad... (1, Funny)

cheeks5965 (1682996) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615900)

ooh burrrn!

Re:Patents are bad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616068)

He will. In hell. Using Windows ME with an OS X background.

Re:Patents are bad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37615814)

I can agree with that.

Re:Patents are bad... (1)

buchner.johannes (1139593) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615846)

This is about hardware and design patents -- not software patents that are just ideas dreamed up. They actually built the thing.

Re:Patents are bad... (2, Insightful)

Genda (560240) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616174)

Yeah, they built a working physical representation of a "2001 A Space Odyssey" handheld tablet computer (or a Star Trek ALCARS handheld tablet, or any of a couple hundred tablet computers described in sci-fi stories over the last 50 years.) Then effectively under threat of law claimed that the tablet was their original idea and that anyone building one needs to pay them. This either makes them brazenly stupid or brashly assholerific. I'll let you pick, please, be my guest!

Re:Patents are bad... (1)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616216)

Oooh, ooh! I'll take the latter for $1000, Alex!

Re:Patents are bad... (1)

Theaetetus (590071) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616288)

Yeah, they built a working physical representation of a "2001 A Space Odyssey" handheld tablet computer (or a Star Trek ALCARS handheld tablet, or any of a couple hundred tablet computers described in sci-fi stories over the last 50 years.) Then effectively under threat of law claimed that the tablet was their original idea and that anyone building one needs to pay them. This either makes them brazenly stupid or brashly assholerific. I'll let you pick, please, be my guest!

Having watched 2001, without anything other information, could you build one of those tablets? Particularly back in 1968?

Prior art anticipates what it enables one of ordinary skill in the art to do. Because of 2001, Apple cannot patent "a flat surface for displaying video," but they can certainly patent the iPad.

Re:Patents are bad... (3, Insightful)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616338)

It doesn't matter if you could build one or not. Apple didn't sue Samsung over its inner workings. They sued because both objects were rounded rectangles, and a couple of the icons used a similar color scheme.

Re:Patents are bad... (2)

Riceballsan (816702) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616202)

Well samsung is actually doing this in revenge for a hardware patent, admitted a retartedly vague one for a rounded rectangle with a touch screen, but that no less is a hardware patent.

Re:Patents are bad... (2)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615976)

Patents are bad. Patent lawsuits that create problems for Apple are good, because they're likely to get noticed and hopefully result in improvements.

Lawsuits over say, patents related to RAM are obscure, hard to understand, and in the end only drive up the prices. The global economic impact might be huge, but the average user won't notice much, so chances are nothing will get fixed.

However when people are not able to buy the phone they want that gets their attention, and maybe will get them to see that the system could use improvements.

As they say on Iron Chef America... (2)

sconeu (64226) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615696)

<OVERDRAMATIC>
"Let the Battle Begin!"
</OVERDRAMATIC>

Re:As they say on Iron Chef America... (1)

tangelogee (1486597) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616120)

<OVERDRAMATIC>
"Let the Battle Begin!"
</OVERDRAMATIC>

it's just not the same without the big arm movements and accompanying sound effects.

Re:As they say on Iron Chef America... (1)

Old97 (1341297) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616628)

Get a better codec then!

Re:As they say on Iron Chef America... (1)

ArhcAngel (247594) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616660)

I think it's

Chairman: "So now America, with an open heart and an empty stomach, I say unto you in the words of my uncle:

<OVERDRAMATIC> Allez cuisine!" </OVERDRAMATIC>

Alton Brown: "Let the Battle Begin!"

which patents? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37615722)

isn't the 4s the exact same design as the 4, just with some relatively minor hardware upgrades? which patents could apple possibly be violating that they were violating already? the only "new" technology is the camera which has an extra lens or something, and the processor, which apple developed internally and has been available for months. would be interesting to see which patents, exactly, samsung is claiming apple is violating.

Re:which patents? (4, Insightful)

Tekfactory (937086) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615804)

You're missing out on the why, Samsung has said Apple is using their 3G wireless patents. This is simply retaliation for Apple blocking Samsung's Galaxy sales in Europe.

If Samsung can get sales of the iPhone 4S blocked in enough countries maybe Apple will stop their patents on rectangular shapes nonsense.

Re:which patents? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37615896)

Samsung has said Apple is using their 3G wireless patents.

Which Apple has a license for. Samsung is gonna get laughed out of court.

Re:which patents? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616210)

Most licenses have a clause where they get revoked if you sue their owner.

Re:which patents? (2)

shoehornjob (1632387) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616194)

You're missing out on the why, Samsung has said Apple is using their 3G wireless patents. This is simply retaliation for Apple blocking Samsung's Galaxy sales in Europe.

That's right. Apple should have seen this coming. These big corporations are playing like babies and someone needs to take their toys away.

Re:which patents? (1, Insightful)

kirkb (158552) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616226)

If Samsung succeeds with their intentions, then every 3G phone also violates their patents. They've successfully trojan'd 3G standards.

Re:which patents? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616370)

only if you break the clause that says your FRAND licence is revoked if you sue the owner.

Re:which patents? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616516)

So, basically it has gone from a "Cold War" (threatening to use patents) to a "Hot War" (actually using them to affect sales).

Re:which patents? (1)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615818)

They are also trying to stop sales of other iphones, but with this one they get to block the latest apple has to offer.

Re:which patents? (1)

Vapula (14703) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615858)

If I'm correct, it's about some 3G patents... They didn't attack Apple before (for the previous phones) because patent war was not declared at that time.
Since that time, Apple had the Galaxy Tab 10.1 banned from Germany and tried to have it banned in whole europe.
Samsung could go after all the iPhone but it would not make any sense. first, they'll have some trouble preventing them being sold as Apple is likely to stop selling them and only selling the 4S and they can't get these called back from consumers. It's also much easier to get a ban (and a trial saying Apple is infringing) on ONE product then ask for damage&interests for the previous products in a separate trial.

Re:which patents? (-1, Flamebait)

gmon750 (1216394) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615892)

"relatively minor hardware upgrades"?? Did you even know what they did under the hood? The iP4 design is already a huge hit with consumers - much to the dismay of fantards everywhere. They ran with that design (which makes case manufacturers happy) and put in the iPad2 A5 chip which still outperforms anything the competitors have, GPU performance 7-9 times faster than the already-impressive iP4, the nicest camera yet, and with iOS5 this is is a solid update for a phone.

"minor hardware upgrades".... wutever..

Re:which patents? (4, Informative)

Ferzerp (83619) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615940)

Hello fanboy.

You realize, for example, that that is the same camera that has been available for quite some time in *other* phones?

Oh wait, it's magical and new.

Re:which patents? (4, Insightful)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616102)

On the outside there doesn't appear to be many changes. On the inside there have been many hardware changes. However it is easier to call someone a fanboy rather than give Apple any credit. You do realize that Apple was able to put in a larger processor, make the phone operate both CDMA and GSM, put in a larger camera-- all the while keeping the same form factor with a slight increase in weight (3g). I would think geeks would appreciate the engineering it would take to do this.

Re:which patents? (1)

Hohlraum (135212) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616298)

They could have done that with the 4. But how would they get you to buy the 4S then?

Re:which patents? (2)

Altus (1034) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616428)

They did do that with the 4... they call it the 4S.

Re:which patents? (3, Insightful)

Vapula (14703) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616342)

Dual core processor... what you can find on other (slimmer) phones for months
8MPixels camera... You also find it on other phone... And the size of the camera is barely different... The biggest part is the lens which didn't have to change.
Voice recognition, available on Android for long
There is nothing big about the new iPhone 4S... it's only trying to play catch-up with the other smartphones... And, yes, it's the best iPhone as each iPhone is better than the previous one (otherwise, nobody would purchase it).

Oh... and about their A5 chip... more than 95% of it is "common IP cores" that can be found in many other chips... ARM core, 3D core, RAM, ... But it's more sexy to say "our brand new ultra-secret processor called A5" than to say "Our brand new ARMv7 two cores, 1GbRAM,XXX 3D core,...chip".

And iOS5 will probably be available to other Apple devices... Those with older devices being left in the cold.

Re:which patents? (-1, Troll)

SlippyToad (240532) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616386)

And, yes, it's the best iPhone as each iPhone is better than the previous one (otherwise, nobody would purchase it).

I really am laughing out loud at this. Apple fanbois will buy ANY FUCKING THING with the Apple logo on it, regardless of how badly designed, overpriced, or user-hostile it is.

Re:which patents? (1)

lptport1 (640159) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616532)

Truly, you offer a compelling reason for converting away from Apple.

Thank you. I shall go turn in my mighty Apple device, and acquire a baked potato.

In a year? (1)

erice (13380) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616430)

On the outside there doesn't appear to be many changes. On the inside there have been many hardware changes. However it is easier to call someone a fanboy rather than give Apple any credit. You do realize that Apple was able to put in a larger processor, make the phone operate both CDMA and GSM, put in a larger camera-- all the while keeping the same form factor with a slight increase in weight (3g). I would think geeks would appreciate the engineering it would take to do this.

The processor package doesn't get physically much if any bigger by going to dual-core. The radio in the Verizon I-phone was already capable of GSM. The firmware just didn't take advantage. The camera does seem to have some better optics and that is a good thing. Overall, it looks like a just a merging of the Verizon and AT&T phones along with a few closely compatible part upgrades that had become available from internal and external suppliers. No form factor heroics here.

Re:In a year? (1)

lptport1 (640159) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616652)

I actually look at it like I do many product cycles: the first version has problems, the second has fewer. If you look at the issues listed on Wikipedia between the 3G and 3GS, two were dealt with between revisions.

I imagine the 4S also has fewer problems than the 4, on top of improvements overall.

I joined the iPhone cult during the 3GS cycle, so upgrading to a 4S seems reasonable to me. I'm not looking for the shiniest or the newest or best. I'm looking for a phone that I won't be sick of in 2 years time.

Re:which patents? (1)

samkass (174571) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616312)

Not quite [techcrunch.com] . It's the same sensor as in the EVO 4G, but the "camera" functionality includes lenses, filters, packaging, and software. The lens is a 5-element F/2.4 lens. The filters include an "adaptive IR filter", which supposedly reduces noise significantly. The software includes tight integration with the new CPU allowing very fast picture taking (a little over a second to first pic, 0.5s per pic after that).

It is definitely new. I'd say Siri [tuaw.com] is the magical part of the 4S, not the camera, but the camera is no slouch.

Re:which patents? (0)

Miamicanes (730264) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616480)

Once you've hit the home button and launched the camera app by finding its icon and clicking it. As opposed to the barbaric, uncivilized way Android owners do it... by pressing a (gasp) dedicated camera button ;-)

Re:which patents? (1)

Patch86 (1465427) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616554)

It is definitely new. I'd say Siri [tuaw.com] is the magical part of the 4S, not the camera, but the camera is no slouch.

Oh, please don't describe Apple features as "magical". Really, really don't.

I'm no Apple hater or anything like that (I mean, I wouldn't kick an iPhone out of bed or anything), but that's just letting the marketing executives win. Hearing it is like the slow realisation that the speaker is a pod person.

Re:which patents? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616038)

Minor hardware upgrades is how it's being sold, and why it's not an iPhone 5. As someone who owns an iPhone, and iPad, and whose main line of work is developing for those platforms, your entire post makes you sound like one of the most grating fanboys in existence. You give reasonable people like me a bad name by association. Stop it.

Unrelated: Did whoever came up with the idea of "severely violating" a patent, get inspiration from the "light/medium/heavy treason" joke used on Arrested Development? You either violate a patent or you don't; there's no such thing as severely violating a patent.

Re:which patents? (1)

cheeks5965 (1682996) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615912)

samsung is just trying to c0ckbl0ck apple's new toy the way apple did to samsung.

Re:which patents? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37615916)

I'm guessing F/RAND patents that Apple's already licensed which Samsung wants more money for.

Re:which patents? (3, Insightful)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616214)

You guess wrong, Samsung wants the right to sell a tablet that happens to be rectangular with round corners in Europe back.

Re:which patents? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616620)

They have that right. They don't have the right to copy other peoples designs.

They have been vioating them all along. (5, Insightful)

pavon (30274) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615958)

which patents could apple possibly be violating that they were violating already?

This is over patents that Apple has been violating all along. Nokia, Motorola, Samsung and have all been tryng to negotiate licensing deals with Apple since the day the iPhone was shipped and they still haven't come to an agreement. The different companies have had different thresholds of how far they are will to push negotiations before suing. Apple crossed Samsungs threshold when they used a shitty German "Design Patent" to force the Galaxy Tab off the market because it was a black rectangle with rounded corners.

What it all comes down to is that Apple thinks that it should be able to license all the hardware/communication patents that these companies hold under FRAND terms, while at the same time refusing to license any of it's software patents. Many of the communication patents are related to the GSM/CDMA standards, and thus do require FRAND licensing, but not all of the hardware patents.

One big one (2)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616006)

It has a WCDMA radio in it. Samsung holds a patent related to that kind of thing. In the older iPhones, only the Verizon ones had CDMA radios, the AT&T ones had GSM. Now I suppose Samsung could have gone after them, but that might risk angering Verizon and Samsung doesn't want to do that. This one though, all phones have both radios so they can go after it and try to block it generally.

If you can't (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37615788)

If you can't innovate, litigate.

Countdown to Apple-haters pointing out how it's ok for Samsung to do it because Apple are a bunch of poo-poo-heads: 3-2-1...

Re:If you can't (2)

Tekfactory (937086) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615836)

And not because Apple did the same thing to Samsung using a German court to block sales of the Galaxy Tablet in Europe?

Re:If you can't (1)

Corbets (169101) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615870)

And not because Apple did the same thing to Samsung using a German court to block sales of the Galaxy Tablet in Europe?

Two wrongs and a right - ever hear that one? ;)

Re:If you can't (2)

Quick Reply (688867) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615930)

Two wrongs and a right - ever hear that one? ;)

Well actually they do. If Samsung are blocked by Apple from selling their products, and Apple are blocked by Samsung from selling their products as well, that will force them to make a patent settlement to get them out of a stalemate that hurts both companies.

Re:If you can't (1)

Riceballsan (816702) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616296)

Indeed, no shareholders particularly like the idea of "just give them the multi-million dollar market and prove you are the bigger man". Plus even pretending we lived in a world where doing nicer things for the benefit of the customers will get you sales (which it isn't, sony and ubisoft's sales are as good as ever no matter how badly they screw over their users), the customers don't even have the option to buy their tablets right now.

Re:If you can't (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616408)

Apple developed a device the revolutionized the tablet market overnight.

Samsung made a copycat of that device

Apple used a design patent to get the copycat banned in a jurisdiction that allows design patents, and where they had a valid design patent which applied.

Apple releases an incrementally better model of their existing smart phone product.

Samsung sues Apple for infringing on a patent that's part of a FRAND standard that their previous devices also implemented (but Samsung didn't see fir to sue over).

I don't really see how Samsung is an innovater at all. It looks like Apple innovated once and now they're both litigating each other.

Re:If you can't (1)

Vapula (14703) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616746)

By the way, that same hardware design was already present in a 1969 film called 2001 A Space Odyssey...

The icon-grid can be tracked back to Xerox' work (which was stolen by both Apple and Microsoft... Which is why Apple got denied when he tried to block Windows). We can find it on Palm Pilot devices (I already had an icon grid for the application launcher on my old Palm IIIxe monochrome)

Capacitive sensors were already used more than 20 years ago (I remind seing some of them on some microwave) and you can find some tools "out of the box" from microchip to make capacitive control panels (including sliders, buttons, switches and x-y zones)... Oh... and I should check but I think that it's the same technology which is used on touchpads on PC and Mac for years.

Tablet computers were already done by Microsoft (which was a big failure... well, Windows is not really made for tablets)

Gestures ? Well, ask to a 8year old boy who never saw an iPhone/Android, tablet,... what gestures he may do with one finger, with two fingers and you'll probably get the same list that Apple is trying to protect... It's trivial and as such can't (oops.. shouldn't) be patented.

On the other hand, Apple refused to pay for the 3G/GSM/... licences, saying that these should be covered because they are buying chips made by other who should have paid these... They have a lot of litigation about these technical patents (that can only be understood by people who are electronics engineers with telecom specialisation).

So, well, I'd like to see iPhone 4S Banned from Whole Europe and Korea... It could teach to Apple one basic law : "A bad peace is always better than a good war".

Re:If you can't (2)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615856)

Yeah, were you saying that when Apple did the same thing to Samsung?

Both suits are garbage, but I hope Apple gets to taste some of their own medicine here.

Re:If you can't (1)

dan828 (753380) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616574)

That's why everyone was pointing out up until now that the fear of this type of tit for tat patent war amounted to the old cold war MAD scenario and thus wouldn't happen. Apparently, Apple didn't get the memo.

Re:If you can't (1)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615928)

It's not OK... ... but it is amusing.

Re:If you can't (2, Insightful)

BatGnat (1568391) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615992)

It's ok for Samsung to do it because Apple are a bunch of poo-poo-heads!!!!

Sammy are wielding some WCDMA patents (1)

Quick Reply (688867) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615862)

Sammy has taken off the gloves and has taken out the big guns... WCDMA patents. They could have gone after basically every 3G device there is (if they were assholes) but have used them very strategically to stick it to Apple, while actually gaining popular support for using a broad patent in their arsenal.

What about laches? (2)

stating_the_obvious (1340413) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616048)

IANAL, so I probably shouldn't even speak these word, but doesn't the equitable doctrine of laches mean that if Samsung knew that everybody was violating their WCDMA patents and did nothing to enforce them, then they eventually forfeit the right to enforce them.

Although now that I think about it, they might be trying to enforce WCDMA patents specific to HSPA+, which wasn't present before the 4s.

If anyone knows, speak up.

Re:What about laches? (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616290)

When it comes to unreasonable delay in bringing suit, yes, laches might kick in. The fact that they didn't sue other parties as far as I know (and I am not a patent lawyer and have never worked in that field at all) wouldn't really matter. An affirmative defense like laches is unique to a specific party; Apple can only really argue Samsung unduly delayed bringing suit against THEM, not against unrelated third parties also infringing. From a practical standpoint, Apple would likely have no idea who's infringing or who's not. A supposedly infringing party might have made a licensing deal with Samsung, the details and existence of which are none of Apple's business.

Re:What about laches? (1)

Theaetetus (590071) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616324)

IANAL, so I probably shouldn't even speak these word, but doesn't the equitable doctrine of laches mean that if Samsung knew that everybody was violating their WCDMA patents and did nothing to enforce them, then they eventually forfeit the right to enforce them.

Not exactly - instead, it's an anti-trust issue. You can't help to establish an industry standard, and then suddenly demand unreasonable royalties or limit competitors from using the standard. Samsung needs to tread carefully, because this could get the Department of Justice involved.

Re:What about laches? (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616486)

Not even close. A patent is, by definition, a monopoly on a specific technology which is granted by the government specifically for this purpose - to prevent unauthorized use and theft of intellectual property (well, really to advance the arts and sciences, but who are we fooling).

Patents are not like trademarks, which must be defended - they can be cherry picked. All that is necessary is to prove that someone used your technology without a license. It's like speeding (to bring this back to a car analogy) - it doesn't matter if everyone else on the road was doing 90 and passing you in a 65 zone, if the cop clocked you at 80, you're still violating the law, and he can pull you over - and you'll lose in court. This is kind of the situation - everybody is doing it, Apple just decided to flip the cop the bird as they went by.

Re:What about laches? (1)

erice (13380) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616566)

Patents don't work that way. You are probably thinking of trademarks. If you don't promptly and aggressively defend your trademark you can lose it. Patents and copyrights have no such requirement.

damnit! (0)

Dark Lord of Ohio (2459854) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615894)

I'll sue them all, muthafuckazz!! I want an iPhone 4s and damn Samsung Galaxy Tab for gods sakes! So what about that? Oh... yeah... it's in Europe... not my problem, go kill yourself... foolz.

Re:damnit! (0)

Bucky24 (1943328) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616286)

Aaaand this is why the world hates Americans.....

I have been wondering for some time (1)

cyfer2000 (548592) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615936)

Is this some kind of strategy Samsung and Apple help each other to get more attention and more profit?

Re:I have been wondering for some time (1)

Noughmad (1044096) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616414)

Somehow, I don't think having their flagship products blocked will get them much profit.

great i live in germany :) (1)

ardiri (245358) | more than 2 years ago | (#37615978)

any plans to ban it germany, file a motion in berlin? these patent wars are getting stupid - why not just share the knowledge and build an awesome product instead of all this crazy fighting over who has the biggest penis.

Re:great i live in germany :) (1)

Gr33nJ3ll0 (1367543) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616072)

It's not over penis size, it's all about profits. If you can't sell your product, I pickup your customers, you make 0 dollars. Far more serious.

How would they know? (0)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616084)

The iPhone 4S isn't available to buy, it's not even available to pre-order yet. But Samsung managed to get ahold of one, reverse engineered it, and found it to infringed on their patents. Impressive.

Re:How would they know? (3, Insightful)

The Grim Reefer2 (1195989) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616300)

The iPhone 4S isn't available to buy, it's not even available to pre-order yet. But Samsung managed to get ahold of one, reverse engineered it, and found it to infringed on their patents. Impressive.

The way Apple employees tend to lose prototypes of the iPhone at bars, it can't be that hard to get one.

Re:How would they know? (1)

Zironic (1112127) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616676)

Well, since Samsung sits on some of the patents that you -have- to infringe to provide 3G, they know you infringe if you provide 3G without paying them.

Apple will probably try to argue that they should be let off for that reason, we'll see how that works out for them.

cross-posted from a place too dumb for it (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616156)

Judge: How can I help you?

Samsung: Your honor, Apple's new iPhone now includes a dual-core processor and 8 megapixel camera capable of 1080p HD video.

Judge: Right, and voice recognition.

Samsung: Yes, and voice recognition.

Judge: And you would like an injunction because....

Samsung: Your honor, this iPhone is too damn good! How are we supposed to compete. Also, it looks the same as the last one, so there's no new design for us to copy :(

Judge: Oh. Well, why don't you just copy the last desi--- oh. Yes. I see your dilemma. Well, I guess you're pretty much SOL then. MOTION DENIED.

Re:cross-posted from a place too dumb for it (1)

PitaBred (632671) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616538)

Shouldn't it be the other way around...? Isn't that why Apple brought out the patent guns in the first place, because they thought Samsung was too much like them and they couldn't compete?

Revenge is cool, sometimes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616158)

Revenge is sweet.

This may be the reason for not calling it iPhone 5?

I can has galaxy tab now pls (1)

w0mprat (1317953) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616170)

Unlike the "look and feel" patents Apple is blocking the new Samsung Galaxy Tab over, this is actual real patent. On a side note, patent system still broken.

Re:I can has galaxy tab now pls (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616600)

Having to enforce your patent is not "patent system still broken".

It will only be broken if Samsung's patent enforcement is not upheld after Apple's was.

You sue, we sue, we all sue (0)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616204)

It looks like the iPhone 4S isn't a bad revision of a phone after all if Samsung are scared enough to not to think they can compete with it unless they resort to legal measures...

... or is that line of reasoning only reserved for when it is Apple doing the suing?

Re:You sue, we sue, we all sue (1)

domatic (1128127) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616282)

Apple "resorted to legal measures" first with their touchscreen-on-a-rounded-rectangle bullshit.

Re:You sue, we sue, we all sue (1)

Vapula (14703) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616488)

It's perfect timing to take a revenge against Apple and it's actions towars Galaxy Tab... And maybe kill the whole iPhone market in the long term.
Apple lost it's Guru, Steve Jobs. Markets are waiting to see how things will go... If Apple get one big backlash it's stock value will probably fall down and Apple could be pushed back in a corner like it was before in the Macintosh vs PC.
Unlike a few years ago, there are now viable alternatives to the iPhone. Android Market is catching up (faster growth, quality of application increasing, ...), several android phones have a better hardware than the iPhone 4 (maybe even a better hardware than the 4S), Android is now known and has earned recognition,...

Re:You sue, we sue, we all sue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616500)

Yeah, because it's not as if Apple is filing bogus lawsuits against anything Android.

Re:You sue, we sue, we all sue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616618)

The only reason they're attacking now and not before is because Apple started this. I'd think of this as payback. The hardware of 4S is in no way superior over the other things on the market.

Apple != iPhone (1)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616224)

Apple is bad.

iPhone is good.

Apple != iPhone

Re:Apple != iPhone (1)

impaledsunset (1337701) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616336)

For varying definitions of good. I doubt people who are more concerned about software freedom would agree here. Neither would people who prefer open platforms. And alternatives that provide more of both aren't exactly behind in technical quality.

The iPhone might be good, but for some of us, there's better.

Android iPhone (2)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616412)

iPhone is good.

Android is better.

Android > iPhone

Re:Android iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616672)

Maybe in opposite land.

Re:Apple != iPhone (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616558)

If the iPhone was that good, Apple would be able to compete on quality; instead of having to rely on bogus IP lawsuits.

This is a good thing. (1)

mosb1000 (710161) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616422)

For years these companies have just been accumulating patents and preparing for this. Once products actually start being banned from markets, average people will see how silly and unproductive the whole patent thing is. Then maybe we can get some real reform.

do they even realise what they are doing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616432)

Apple is claiming Samsung are copycats, making their hardware (and software) copies of Apple's.

So ... Samsung now copies Apple's legal tactics as well. Can this be submitted as evidence into the first trial? :-P

Poetic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37616434)

I can't help but think this is somewhat poetic.
Maybe the double-edged sword will cut deep enough some common sense will break out.

Patents in standards (1)

vijayiyer (728590) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616568)

The same Slashdotters who are worried about patents in the H.264 standard someday possibly being used to sue someone are now excited when patents around technology core to 3G are being exploited. Hypocrisy.

Re:Patents in standards (4, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616744)

No, it's schadenfreude. Patents are rapidly proving themselves to be destructive legal constructs, and each case like this simply reinforces that reality.

2 Antennas.... (1)

s0litaire (1205168) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616724)

.... Wonder where they will be located on the phone??
Now which ever way you hold it you'll probably be covering an antenna limiting it's effectiveness without an approved apple rubber ring slapped on it...

Oh and since US mobile networks are basically over subscribed, You'll probably never have both functioning at the same speed on a network, So you'll end up with exactly the same speed as an iPhone4, while Sprint charge you twice the price for the privilege...

To apple and Samsung (1)

Aeros (668253) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616726)

Would you both kindly shut the fuck up? Thank you.

Why Europe? (1)

phoncible (2468768) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616738)

Why are these battles always in Europe? Not that I want any product being blocked here in the states, but why isn't there ever battles to block sales here?

I misread title (1)

rossdee (243626) | more than 2 years ago | (#37616740)

I thought it said Samsung seeks to ban iPhone 45 in europe (thats forty-five, the same caliber as the gun that Colt tamed the west with.and I wondered if Apple were doing a 'firefox version inflation thing'

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