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DHS Goes Ahead With 'Pre-Crime' Detection Project

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the somebody-warn-tom-cruise dept.

Crime 438

suraj.sun tips news that the U.S. Department of Homeland Security has begun testing its project to predict future crimes on members of the public. The Future Attribute Screening Technology (FAST) project is "designed to track and monitor, among other inputs, body movements, voice pitch changes, prosody changes (alterations in the rhythm and intonation of speech), eye movements, body heat changes, and breathing patterns." A field test was performed at a large venue earlier this year, and documents recently obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request indicate that testing is proceeding on other members of the public as well. "It's not clear whether these people were informed that they're participating in a FAST study."

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Wow. (2, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639536)

would make nazi weep.

Re:Wow. (5, Insightful)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639634)

In the future this will be looked back on as being as stupid as McCarthyism. Looking for terrorists under every bed and around every corner, monitoring people's bodies for signs of terrorist intent...the terrorists have won beyond their wildest dreams. And if we examine Pearl Harbor as precedent, none of us will live to see the damage undone.

Re:Wow. (0, Flamebait)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639704)

In the future this will be looked back on as being as stupid as McCarthyism.

But McCarthy underestimated the communist infiltration of the US government. He may have been paranoid, but history has shown he wasn't paranoid enough.

I doubt history will say the same about the DHS.

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37639848)

What are you talking about? What communist infiltration? Paranoia and power are a bad mix. See Stalin.

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37639982)

But McCarthy underestimated the communist infiltration of the US government.

WTF are you talking about? He didn't catch every mole or spy (or hardly any) - but he hugely over estimated the communist infiltration of the US government. He just 'caught' the wrong people.

Re:Wow. (4, Insightful)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640090)

Perhaps, but how was his accuracy? It doesn't matter if I know there to be an alien in the Senate if I accuse 90 Senators that aren't aliens I'd be just a delusional crackpot. Same goes for McCarthy, when there's little concern for accuracy you might as well just be randomly arresting people.

Re:Wow. (2)

arthurpaliden (939626) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640244)

That is why the paper containing the names of all the know communist sympathizers in the famous envelope waving scene was blank.

Re:Wow. (3, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639742)

No, I think if you go down this road then there is no future.

Re:Wow. (2)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639788)

Technically there will always be a future (until the big crunch, at least).

Re:Wow. (2)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639812)

In the future this will be looked back on as being as stupid as McCarthyism. Looking for terrorists under every bed and around every corner, monitoring people's bodies for signs of terrorist intent...the terrorists have won beyond their wildest dreams. And if we examine Pearl Harbor as precedent, none of us will live to see the damage undone.

Sorry, dude, but they're already doing that .. been doing it for years. All your email, all your telephone calls, everything you do online which can be connected to you by IP address or account activity (such as GMail, Hotmail, ATT.NET, etc.) They tracked down that Craigslist Killer pretty amazingly fast, didn't they? It's stored somewhere and the spooks can reference it fast if they decide there's a need, real or imagined.

Even activity on such a subversive site as Slashdot is being ... hold on, doorbell

NO CARRIER

Re:Wow. (1)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640198)

NO CARRIER

That's what happens when you use dialup for subversive stuff.

Re:Wow. (1)

bondsbw (888959) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640182)

Ok, most everyone here understands the issue of privacy here.

As devil's advocate, technology of this nature could be used to find and diagnose people with psychological issues who stay away from the doctor, or simply don't have the money to get evaluated. And this technology can be used to bring help to people before rather than after a violent incident.

As a culture, we find that the most appropriate treatment of people who have a criminal psychosis is to isolate them and help them, forcibly. We also find that they are not "wrong" and don't need to be punished, but require help. I don't readily see how an act of violence in this case is a critical point where we force help on the unwilling. So, why not force it earlier and prevent the violent acts?

Re:Wow. (3, Insightful)

Smallpond (221300) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640310)

As a culture, we find that the most appropriate treatment of people who disagree with the government is to isolate them and help them, forcibly. We also find that they are not "wrong" and don't need to be punished, but require help. I don't readily see how an act of violence in this case is a critical point where we force help on the unwilling. So, why not force it earlier and prevent the violent acts?

FTFY

Re:Wow. (-1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640216)

"And if we examine Pearl Harbor as precedent, none of us will live to see the damage undone."

Pearl Harbor began the best thing to happen to the US in the last century, the Second World War. The combination of economic expansion and military supremacy which resulted dwarfed the costs such that they were trivial by comparison.

WWII had the NET effect of moving a very large part of the world forward, including the Axis losers and mainland China.

Re:Wow. (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640340)

This time though, unlike the Evil Communists, the Evil Terrorists can't just call it quits and screw up the whole program. That's because if Al Qaida announced, today, that "Hey everyone, we're giving up trying to attack the US", they'd just find some other group of people to call the Evil Terrorists, and all the oppressive tactics can continue unabated.

Re:Wow. (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639726)

So... If they don't do anything and not having clear information on who to monitor and not. They will take heat for people who commit crimes, and are not on their radar and they are inspecting people who will not commit crimes.
Or.
They come up with a way to profile people without personal judgement and then they they will take heat for that.

Logically if you are going to take heat for either you might as well choose the one where the crime isn't committed.

Life sucks doesn't it.
 

Re:Wow. (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640114)

The thing is that they don't profile without personal judgment because it's impossible. Profiling involves a great deal of personal judgment and training.

Re:Wow. (5, Insightful)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640178)

What is interesting is that the U.S. can't afford teachers to educate their children, or health care to heal the sick, but it can spend money on pie in the sky security stuff.

Gotta protect ourselves from the people at any cost.
Why?
Because we are shitting on them in a big way and they're getting riled.

Re:Wow. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37640264)

If you meant Stasi, rather than Nazi, then yes I think they'd have collectively given their left nuts for this sort of tech (whether it pans out or not).

REALLY!?!? (-1, Troll)

wganz (113345) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639552)

Given how this administration has screwed up everything that they've touched so far; what could possibly go wrong with this?

Re:REALLY!?!? (1)

Niedi (1335165) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639718)

very simple, it'd probably go nuts on every JGO (junk grabbing official) at the airport screening center...

Re:REALLY!?!? (1)

Crudely_Indecent (739699) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639814)

... go nuts ...

HAH!
pun intended?

Re:REALLY!?!? (1)

Niedi (1335165) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640074)

... go nuts ...

HAH! pun intended?

never...
You know, I've given up on puns. So far I've made about ten puns on slashdot to see if at least one of them would cause a humorous reply, but alas no pun in ten did.

Minority Report (0)

halfEvilTech (1171369) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639576)

So how soon till we have a fully functional pre-crime police department where they arrest and try people before crimes are even commited?

Re:Minority Report (2)

rbanzai (596355) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639636)

We're probably 20 years away from that if you consider how much testing will need to be done prior to extensive legal challenges and official tests in various cities and states. It will be the greatest legal tool for oppression mankind has ever known.

Re:Minority Report (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639852)

But first all potential pre-criminals should be readily identifiable to the common population. I suggest a yellow star of david on their clothes, or perhaps a yellow crescent moon? Then it will become easier to prevent people from doing business with them or having sex with them.

Re:Minority Report (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640144)

That's not efficient enough, just put booths everywhere and arrest anybody that can't pass the credit check. I mean that is the whole point, right? Relegate the poor to work farms so that the rich don't have to do a damned thing.

Re:Minority Report (3, Informative)

yog (19073) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639650)

It can't happen as long as we presume innocence until proven guilty.

The DHS is reaching for new ways to achieve visible results without doing the hard work of battling for the budget needed to hire and train really smart, perceptive people for sensitive posts like TSA agents at airports.

When machines get smart enough to predict someone's future crimes, we're all going to be unemployed, anyway.

Re:Minority Report (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37639748)

It can't happen as long as we presume innocence until proven guilty.

Ah, well, you Americans are already screwed then. See Guantanamo Bay.

Re:Minority Report (1)

codeAlDente (1643257) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639772)

Well, "we" did just assassinate an American citizen without due process of law... Just saying.

Re:Minority Report (2)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640286)

Well, "we" did just assassinate an American citizen without due process of law... Just saying.

Law? They didn't charge him with anything, law never even entered into it. They just murdered him. One of their own citizens. And we all know how the US looks after their own, or at least the top 1%. The other 99% are expendable.

Same thing they did to Bin Laden, they had him in custody even, and just murdered him. Probably didn't want anyone to hear anything he might have to say.

Who knows? You could be next.

Re:Minority Report (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639776)

It can't happen as long as we presume innocence until proven guilty.

Anyone who's ever gotten a ticket in the mail; nay, been to court period, would argue that we're already far beyond that point.

Innocence is measured in fiscal wealth these days, I'm afraid.

Re:Minority Report (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640156)

Well, the DHS head was all in favor of speed cameras and tickets-by-mail in Arizona. Those cameras are largely turned off now, as it was apparent that not only was there no due process, but anyone with any pull at all could escape the system entirely. Oh, and if you ignored the tickets, enforcement was at best spotty, and at worst arbitrary. Pathetic. It could have worked, but apparently there wasn't enough profit in it.

Re:Minority Report (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640164)

This isn't any different from parking tickets, you have the right to challenge it in court, but it's frequently more efficient to just waive that right and pay the ticket.

Re:Minority Report (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640190)

"Innocence is measured in fiscal wealth these days, I'm afraid."

Or celebrity.

Re:Minority Report (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639834)

without doing the hard work of battling for the budget needed to hire and train really smart, perceptive people for sensitive posts like TSA agents at airports

There's not enough money in the world to accomplish this. As the jobs are currently defined, anybody who takes the job would immediately be unable to be described with those terms (or they'd lose their job for not doing it and thus be unable to be described as being in that job).

Re:Minority Report (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639878)

It's happening now. Don't you listen on the news? More and more often you hear people talking about "prove his innocence".

Re:Minority Report (1)

gknoy (899301) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640102)

Not only that, but the precedent for confiscating property (and charging the property as an accessory to the crime, not the _person_) is well established for things like money. It's easy to destroy someone's life without technically violating _their_ rights. Sadly, your property doesn't have rights, and oh look now people who meet [some shadiness criteria set by fearful politicians] can no longer live within X yards of a Y, which happen to be everywhere, so have fun living under a bridge.

Its a little farfetched, but not as farfetched as I'd like.

Re:Minority Report (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640124)

"The DHS is reaching for new ways to achieve visible results without doing the hard work of battling for the budget needed"

Oh, did you mean DHS is trying deperately to justify their existence?

Like every other agency should do. We could hope that performance would be clear evidence of need, but in DHS' case, this is not at all that simple. No successful incidents seems to indicate DHS is doing the job, but reality shows that travelers have so far stopped all attempts, and on the plane at that.

Sadly, knowing the head of the department's history, we will get the sad song-and-dance about how they can't really tell us of their successful intercepts of attempted attacks. Nice work if you can get it, I think.

Re:Minority Report (1)

kryliss (72493) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640176)

Innocent until proven guilty? What country are you talking about? Certainly not the US!!

Re:Minority Report (1)

Smallpond (221300) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640342)

It can't happen as long as we presume innocence until proven guilty.

The DHS is reaching for new ways to achieve visible results without doing the hard work of battling for the budget needed to hire and train really smart, perceptive people for sensitive posts like TSA agents at airports.

When machines get smart enough to predict someone's future crimes, we're all going to be unemployed, anyway.

When I read the summary, the first thing I thought was that if they are working on this then they have too big a budget now.

Re:Minority Report (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639896)

As soon as you find three people with reliable precognition abilities. I'm betting in "not in the next two hundred generations".

Re:Minority Report (1, Interesting)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639970)

It's already there, just a low-tech version. Look at the RC plane bomber. A man with a dangerously nutty mind but not guilty of anything. The feds baited him into committing all his "crimes" so that they could lock up a potentially dangerous, but innocent man. It's entrapment, even if we feel good about putting the nutball behind bars.

Through counter-intelligence... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37639610)

...it should be possible to pinpoint potential "troublemakers" and neutralize them.

Re:Through counter-intelligence... (1)

jdkramar (803337) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639822)

^ this. Also, there are plenty of sci-fi examples of why this is a bad idea.

Re:Through counter-intelligence... (2)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640232)

"...it should be possible to pinpoint potential "troublemakers" and neutralize them."

So long as we agree on the definition of 'troublemakers'. I, for one, don't have a problem labeling you as a troublemaker.

Next?

test operators first (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37639618)

maybe the operators should point this technology at themselves... before using it on the public.

Re:test operators first (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639736)

maybe the operators should point this technology at themselves... before using it on the public.

It should be installed in Congress, the White House and every major bank, for a start.

Re:test operators first (2)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639898)

This metric exists to try to prevent future crime, not point out ongoing ones.

Re:test operators first (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37640276)

maybe the operators should point this technology at themselves... before using it on the public.

It should be installed in Congress, the White House and every major bank, for a start.

Hey we don't want the real criminals in jail.
Whoever gave you that insane thought ?

No, don't test operators first (1)

Quila (201335) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639902)

In a field test you want a test group that is capable of producing a range of results that may appear in actual use. A group of DHS agents isn't exactly a snapshot of your average group of travelers -- not enough Muslim terrorist types, far too many jackboot Nazi types.

In Congress they would be testing the only "native American criminal class" so results would be highly skewed there too.

There should be a law (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37639620)

Call it the "Don't be a (Phillip K.) Dick" law, to outlaw precrime enforcement.

can someone say (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37639626)

minority report!

Tom Cruise? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37639628)

Red ball anyone?

Papers? (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639638)

Who needs to see your papers? We already know you're a criminal, now look directly into the camera so we can determine just what you're guilty of...

Thank you for your forced compliance.
Sincerely,
DHS.

Re:Papers? (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639722)

Who needs to see your papers? We already know you're a criminal, now look directly into the camera so we can determine just what you're guilty of...

Thank you for your forced compliance.
Sincerely,
DHS.

How about a modern re-issue of the original Castle Wolfenstein, where the player tries to successfully go to the Grocery, Bank and ultimately Shopping Mall past DHS agents?

"Aus Passe!"

Re:Papers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37640040)

"Mein Leben!!"

It isn't profiling, honest (3, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639646)

So what they're doing is taking variables that are innocent and legal (changing the pitch of one's voice is not an inherently criminal act), and using it to justify increased surveillance of that individual. And naturally, everyone will be okay with this because "only criminals have anything to hide".

Everyone forgets, of course, that you don't need to be watched for very long before you break a law. It's so hopelessly complex that even lawyers, who spend several years learning about it, are unable to avoid being ensnared against a determined law enforcement effort. If they want you, they will get you. So basically, this system is selecting people to turn into criminals. There is no preventative value here... increased surveillance on anyone will eventually yield evidence that can be used for criminal prosecution.

Re:It isn't profiling, honest (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639728)

So what they're doing is taking variables that are innocent and legal (changing the pitch of one's voice is not an inherently criminal act), and using it to justify increased surveillance of that individual.

<voice class="indian_accent">I am in some serious shit now my friend...</voice>

Re:It isn't profiling, honest (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639910)

The thing is: profiling works, to some degree. People who are nervous often are hiding something. Every police officer will profile the people around them, and they should. That is how they reduce the signal-to-noise ratio. There are lots of people out there, and since you can't really be expected to casually see the criminals in the act, you need to profile them in order to pick out people who are likely to commit crimes. The TSA is actually an example of what happens when you don't: you end up strip searching 90 year old ladies taking away their walkers (profiling works in the other direction too.)

Of course they can always peg you for some minor crime: they always could. An automated system doesn't change that. The trick is to look for people who are about to commit a major crime, and catch them in the act (but preferably before committing a major crime.) Police officers will (on the whole: some are just assholes) look to do this too. Since you can't prove they were, say, about to commit murder, waiting until you can (such as when they pull out the knife) is better than booking them for some random crime they'll get a tiny slap on the wrist for. And a minority-report style precrime conviction system won't happen, at least for a while (but we'll see I guess).

With that said, the chances of this system actually working properly are just about 0%. If it did, it could potentially be useful. The potential for abuse isn't really any higher than with police officers now, since they'll be the ones to actually the arresting anyways.

Re:It isn't profiling, honest (1)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640192)

Spot on. Mod parent up. Almost everyone is guilty of some crime, be it copyright infringement, tax fraud, hate speech, or some driving felony. Heck, if the Six Degrees of Seperation hypothesis [wikimedia.org] is right you're probably close enough to some terrorist to count as a terrorist yourself.

Everyone forgets, of course, that you don't need to be watched for very long before you break a law. It's so hopelessly complex that even lawyers, who spend several years learning about it, are unable to avoid being ensnared against a determined law enforcement effort. If they want you, they will get you.

I wonder (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639652)

Where did they find so many criminals to be able to test out these detection methods to be able to say that they work? I mean, considering that they haven't actually caught ONE terrorist yet (PS - the ones that make it onto the plane and are taken down by passengers a crew don't count). This is probably just another expensive DHS money pit. So now not only will you get cancer from going through the "super safe" scanners that have never been rated or tested for use on humans, but you might just be accused of terrorism because of your social phobia.

Hey DHS, read much? (4, Informative)

milbournosphere (1273186) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639662)

I REALLY hope somebody in the higher echelons of the DHS sits down to read a copy of The Minority Report by Phillip Dick. Like the movie based upon it, the story explores the implications of enacting just what the DHS is suggesting. Granted, they're using cameras and screening tech instead of pre-cogs, but IMO they are still are promoting a powerful military force to reach a similar end game. What's happening to this country?

Re:Hey DHS, read much? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37639900)

I REALLY hope somebody in the higher echelons of the DHS sits down to read a copy of The Minority Report by Phillip Dick. Like the movie based upon it, the story explores the implications of enacting just what the DHS is suggesting. Granted, they're using cameras and screening tech instead of pre-cogs, but IMO they are still are promoting a powerful military force to reach a similar end game. What's happening to this country?

You abdicated rational thought the day after 9/11.
The real problem with americans is that you think you' ve got all the answers and everybody else is always wrong. You should have treated terrorism as it always was : a criminal act with a political endgame. You choose not to. You choose to legitimise torture, you chose to legitimise arbitrary wars, you chose to enact the absurdity called TSA, you chose to forget the whole "rule of law concept".
By making always expections in the name of an unattainable 100% security you've brought this disaster upon yourselves.
What did you expect would happen in the end ?

Re:Hey DHS, read much? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37639926)

I REALLY hope somebody in the higher echelons of the DHS sits down to read a copy of The Minority Report by Phillip Dick.

It is obvious that they have. It's just that they are using it as a manual instead of as a warning.

Re:Hey DHS, read much? (1)

Avatar8 (748465) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640154)

Indeed. Isn't this the point of literature, fact or fiction, for us to learn from possibilities and history so we don't make the same mistakes in "real life?"

That's their textbook (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37640188)

Of course they've read it -- you don't think they're creative enough to think this up for themselves, do you?

Re:Hey DHS, read much? (1)

TheCarp (96830) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640194)

They read the book and said "Well its fiction, but what a great idea". At this point, I think we have to hope they haven't read 1984 yet, it is absolutely imperative that we keep any copies of it away from those dimwits in the DHS, to allow them to get ideas from it (especially since they are likely to see it as "working out in the end").

Re:Hey DHS, read much? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37640212)

And when they are done that, A Scanner Darkly for the next logical conclusion to follow pre-crime. Pre-crime espionage.

So basically... (3, Interesting)

bmo (77928) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639680)

Anyone with outlier body problems is a suspect now.

DHS is now waging war against the disabled

Since the thread was already Godwinned in the first post, I'm going to say that the Nazis also did similar things to the mentally and physically disabled. It's just a jump from detecting and classifying people like this to eugenics.

Thanks, DHS.

Go fuck yourselves.

--
BMO

Re:So basically... (3, Informative)

BetterSense (1398915) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640174)

It's already a long and glorious tradition. Law enforcement routinely maintain policies that fuck over anyone outside the bell curve in any way. How many times have people been shot for "ignoring police commands"? Well if police can shoot you for ignoring them, what about deaf people? I guess they are just fucked.

Consider these recent google hits:
John T. Williams (shot to death for failing to respond to police commands quickly enough, deaf in one ear)
Robert Dzieka&#324;ski (tasered to death for being Polish, apparently)
Michelle Schreiner (tasered during a low-blood sugar attack)
John Harmon (repeatedly tasered and beaten during a blood sugar attack).

I'm sure all those people were "responding abnormally" which is, or soon will be, effectively illegal in itself.

Re:So basically... (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640256)

Positive eugenics should not be confused with Nazi pseudo-science.

Humans already breed by choice. Positive eugenics merely expands the choices. If you can evolve by choice, why not do that?

Re:So basically... (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640284)

Anyone with outlier body problems is a suspect now.

DHS is now waging war against the disabled

It's not just the diasbled, the "War on Terror" has effectively been a "War on Dignity" since practically day one.

My detector works great (1, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639686)

My Slashdot Moderation Predictor (Patent Pending) predicts this post will be modded down!

With just a little tweaking it will also detect incorrect meta moderation.

The terrorists have won. (2)

trolman (648780) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639702)

The terrorists have won.

Re:The terrorists have won. (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639798)

+1 Profound Truth

Re:The terrorists have won. (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640068)

This must mean Charlie Sheen is a terrorist, because he's Winning.

Re:The terrorists have won. (1)

Kozar_The_Malignant (738483) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640252)

The terrorists have won.

Your Thought Crime is duly noted. Please report to the Ministry of Love to answer a few questions. Bring your toothbrush.

Utterly Useless (2)

radixzer0 (17817) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639716)

There's zero chance this will work how they think it will. From a great presentation at this year's DefCon:
Why Airport Security Can’t Be Done FAST [defcon.org]

Not informed (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639758)

I hope not. Part of the usefulness of research and trials is to avoid bias by letting your subjects know what is being tested.

I and, however, surprised that nobody is screaming "Racial Profiling" when the system uses ethnicity as a tracking factor, unless it's used to simply filer out societal norms.

What I find funniest is that this is EXACTLY what every law enforcement and security guard is trained in for crowd surveillance and operations. These are the clues a human looks for in determining which people might be a problem. If I were smart, I'd file a patent for this ASAP, and then add "by a computer" to make it a novel idea.

It's a lie detector, in advance (1)

concealment (2447304) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639796)

This sounds like the next generation of the same dubious technology that is know as the "lie detector."

Basically, if someone is nervous or in pain, they show heightened levels of distress in behavior.

And that's now probable cause.

Beating the system (1)

durrr (1316311) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639804)

If you predict that I won't do any crime, I will do it!
Wat now bitches?

Pre-crime? Not even close. (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639828)

This is observation, and nothing more. They're just teaching a computer how to do what every good cop does.

Call me when they find reliable precognitives; until then, don't call it pre-crime detection.

The cost is too high! (1)

unixcorn (120825) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639836)

We need to stop funding these kinds of studies. And by that I mean we should get rid of DHS!

What no minority report references yet?? (1)

tom229 (1640685) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639854)

Just invent pre-cogs... problem solved.

Before you knock it... (4, Interesting)

wisebabo (638845) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639862)

Ok, I didn't RTFA because I want to whip this off before I go out the door but...

Instead of the "security theater" that passes for inspections at American airports, shouldn't we be emulating the much less intrusive Israeli model? From what I understand (I admit I'm an amateur), instead of passing people through body scanners and whatnot, the Israelis use well trained people to basically talk to people entering the "sterile" zone and WATCH THEIR REACTION. I guess it almost impossible to teach someone not to show outward signs of nervousness especially if they're going to end their life by blowing themselves up (or carrying illegal drugs I suppose). The results speak for themselves, when was the last time you've heard of an Israeli airport or airplane being blown up? Don't tell me it's from lack of fanatical enemies!

Of course, DHS' attempt to use technology instead of well trained PEOPLE could be a fatal flaw but the essential idea, of pre-screening people based on their autonomous reflexes, is not to be dismissed outright.

This is genius, once more hollywood leads the way. (1)

bugs2squash (1132591) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639884)

Now combine it with the George Clooney goat killing method. The DHS could simply step to one side and glower at the bad guys as they make their way to the terminal, telepathically forcing terrorists to simply die on the spot. I think they could demonstrate about the same success rate as the current, more invasive program we have today.

How does this work on sociopaths? (1)

lavagolemking (1352431) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639942)

The Future Attribute Screening Technology (FAST) project is "designed to track and monitor, among other inputs, body movements, voice pitch changes, prosody changes (alterations in the rhythm and intonation of speech), eye movements, body heat changes, and breathing patterns

It sounds like this is detecting signs of people's behavior changing as they sidestep their inhibitory mechanisms, or in basic terms that they're nervous doing something they know is wrong and the system is detecting their nervousness. Any ideas on how will this pre-screening work on sociopaths, who don't feel any remorse or commitment to societal morals or societal norms? Someone who doesn't experience the human inhibitory reflex? Someone with an anxiety disorder, or otherwise has a (non-criminal) reason to be nervous?

Re:How does this work on sociopaths? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37640236)

So it does not work on bankers or CEOs, they would have enough money to be 'innocent' anyway in the US legal system.

My 99.9% accurate crime predictor (5, Insightful)

SirGarlon (845873) | more than 2 years ago | (#37639958)

I have a crime predictor that boasts better than 99.9% accuracy. It always returns "not a criminal."

Seriously, in order for utterly dystopian concept to have any benefits, you'd need a false alarm rate much lower than 0.1%. Even at .01%, for anti-terrorism applications the ratio of false alarms to actual terrorists would be something like 10,000 to 1 -- assuming it had a 100% detection accuracy, which is of course preposterous.

Re:My 99.9% accurate crime predictor (3, Informative)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640326)

What country do you live in? Because in the USA everyone is guilty of some crime because that is the way the system works.

Fast? (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640062)

Fast? I can't wait for the "furious" part. Will they plant weapons or contraband in the subject's home to make sure they have a high success rate?

Might Be Useful (1)

burris (122191) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640104)

Can we use this on politicians before they are elected?

Voodoo Science (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37640112)

I'm have no doubt that this voodoo science will be hailed as "all' scientists agree its true, just like that of AGW.

Not long ago... (2)

ub3r n3u7r4l1st (1388939) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640116)

we have Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash. Now we have no jobs, no hope and no cash.

totalitarian control (0, Offtopic)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640132)

This is not to be taken lightly.

Combined with the fact that POTUS now has the de-facto power to KILL anybody (never mind if they are a US citizen or not), but also US citizens out in the open without any due process, any Constitutional rights (and I am not talking about entitlements - rights, as in what right a person has with respect to the government system), this is the end of all that USA used to stand for.

It's just the end. It's done.

If you don't vote for Ron Paul this time, if you don't even go out of your way to register republicans (however disgusted you may feel, but realize who is in power now), because the primary voting only is allowed to registered party members and if you don't vote for Ron Paul just based on this alone, then you absolutely deserve what is coming, and what is coming is going to be beyond anything anybody has ever seen before, because no nazis, no commies have EVER had capabilities that could match what US government has today. It's unprecedented.

Phrenology (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37640254)

It doesn't take bumpiness of the skull into account?

Soon it will acceptable... (0)

Tiger Smile (78220) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640258)

One day soon, if this form of pre-crime is put into use, a the police will gun down a person and it will be judged reasonable force, because they had reason to suspect the person was dangerous due to the "fact" that they would soon commit a crime. in these crazy days when the government takes private property for profit without a court order or due process(http://www.themoralliberal.com/2011/10/04/ij-challenges-%E2%80%9Cpolicing-for-profit%E2%80%9D-in-massachusetts/), where the government can threaten a person with a violet SWAT style raid for having a health lemon tree in their home(http://healthfreedoms.org/2011/09/15/usda-seizes-1000-personal-lemon-trees-threatens-fed-raid/), where the government contends that you don't own your property(http://libertylog.org/?p=2837), and that you have no rights to food, health, or to contract(http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/fda-you-have-no-natural-right-to-food-health-or-private-contracts/), what do you expect. People are asleep. In the land of the free you don't have as many rights as you think. Of course they wouldn't try the same thing with large corporations of people with money or power. It's only the little people who get stepped on. At least a few have balls and they are in NY right now. What are you doing for the people who are actually doing something? They are fighting for your rights for your rights and freedom from a government controlled more and more by large corporations and less and less by, and for, the people.

Phrenology (1)

dmatos (232892) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640268)

I sure hope this system will take the shape of people's heads into account when determining future criminal intent.

Nerds and Girls (1)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#37640282)

(FAST) project is "designed to track and monitor, among other inputs, body movements, voice pitch changes, prosody changes (alterations in the rhythm and intonation of speech), eye movements, body heat changes, and breathing patterns."

That sounds more like the effect a semi-attractive girl has on a slash dotter than a terrorist response.

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