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Oracle To Bring Dtrace To Linux

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the dplane-dplane-no-that's-fantasy-island dept.

Oracle 155

mvar writes "Dtrace co-author Adam Leventhal writes on his blog about Dtrace for Linux: 'Yesterday (October 4, 2011) Oracle made the surprising announcement that they would be porting some key Solaris features, DTrace and Zones, to Oracle Enterprise Linux. As one of the original authors, the news about DTrace was particularly interesting to me, so I started digging. Even among Oracle employees, there's uncertainty about what was announced. Ed Screven gave us just a couple of bullet points in his keynote; Sergio Leunissen, the product manager for OEL, didn't have further details in his OpenWorld talk beyond it being a beta of limited functionality; and the entire Solaris team seemed completely taken by surprise. Leunissen stated that only the kernel components of DTrace are part of the port. It's unclear whether that means just fbt or includes sdt and the related providers. It sounds certain, though, that it won't pass the DTrace test suite which is the deciding criterion between a DTrace port and some sort of work in progress.'"

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Good news. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37645704)

DTrace is serious software.

Re:Good news. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37645720)

What I wonder is how exactly Oracle will turn this into an immensely dickish move, since everything they do is immensely dickish. (With most companies -- e.g., Microsoft or Apple -- this would be trolling, but with Oracle it's simply a statement of fact.)

Re:Good news. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37645934)

The important thing to remember is: niggers use too much welfare.

Re:Good news. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646172)

No shit. But get this: There's a protest or sign convention or something going on in New York City. I think they're demanding higher taxes or and end to bank bailouts (3 years too late on that one!) or sustainable gardening or more pens and paper or something. I'm not quite sure, and apparently, they aren't either. But the point is -- not a single nigger. Not one. You'd think they'd be good at protesting shit for no reason. But apparently, niggers don't protest unless they can steal and loot, too.

Re:Good news. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37647288)

Sunday, September 11, 2011 GNAA Announces Participation in International Burn a Koran Day Leon Kaiser - New York, NY New York, NY - GNAA today announced that they will participate in "International Burn a Koran Day". In preparation for today's glorious event, GNAA has been stockpiling copies of the "Holy" Koran for the past year. "We've been doing this for years without realizing that it's a holiday," GNAA founder and CEO Gary Niger said earlier this morning. GNAA Operative Jmax was quoted as saying "Y'know, those towelheads could chose one name for their so-called 'holy' book, it'd make it a hell'va lot easier to Google." When asked to elaborate, Jmax only paused to add "dongs" before going back to his wine semen tasting. Dr. Harun Abdullah "LOL DICKS" al-Nejem al-Saab Esquire had this to add: "Despite nearly a decade of research, even our most well-endowed scientists could not find a single property of this book that could even in the slightest bit be considered 'holy': it did not walk on water when we flushed it down the toilet, it burned when we set it on fire, it did not turn water into semen, it did not raise the dead when we buried it in a mass grave, it did not cure DiKKy's severe retardation or l0de's leprosy, nothing. It couldn't even make freenode a usable IRC network. We couldn't even understand the scribbling they call a writing system, so it wasn't much of a book, either. Oh, and for some reason we couldn't find a copy that didn't smell like shit." "Call it what you want: Qur'an, Quran, Kuran, Koran, Qur'n, Coran, al-Qur'n, or firewood" says a GNAA spokesnigger, "but a rumor rag is a rumor rag." Opponents of the event have included disgraced Gaynigger Barry Soetoro, known pedophile Pope Benedict XVI, Israeli web hosting provider Rackspace, and the infamous autist IRC network, freenode. Unsurprisingly, the Mossad scapegoat, Osama Bin Laden, declined to comment on the event, as his life was stolen from him during one of the many dickings awarded to him by the US Military.

Score: +5, funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37647984)

funniest thing on /. this year.

Re:Good news. (2)

Morth (322218) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647048)

As long as the leave strace in place. Apple replaced ktrace with dtrace and I've been hating it ever since.
It's not that dtrace is bad, it's just that they have different purposes, and dtruss has several problems ktrace/strace does not:

  • It's asynchronous. Meaning it won't output write(1, "foo\n", 4); next to the actual output of foo.
  • Sometimes stuff gets out of order, not sure why.
  • It'll only output pointer addresses, e.g. bind(3, 0x12345678, ...) instead of bind(3, {, 8080}, ...)

Ok, rant over.

Re:Good news. (1)

Morth (322218) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647062)

Damn, not sure how I forgot the worst part of all. dtruss requires root to be run, so you usually have to do some convoluted double sudo to run a program the same way as without it.

Phasing out Solaris? (2, Insightful)

eln (21727) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645710)

So, are they porting Solaris functionality to OEL as a precursor to phasing out Solaris entirely? It would suck to see Solaris go from a nostalgia point of view, but it never made much sense to me why one company would continue to develop two Unix-like operating systems.

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37645812)

I'm not so sure Oracle does much dev on either.

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37645828)

Only if they're going to phase out SPARC or port OEL to SPARC.

I suspect that for the moment, they're either trying to provide another reason to run OEL over RHEL orr maybe they want DTrace on OEL to help tune it to make their stuff run better there.

I've also always thought it was odd for them to have two Unix-like OSes.

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (1)

ILongForDarkness (1134931) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645928)

Phase out SPARC: probably exactly what they are planning. Add the features that are cool to OEL and then discontinue SPARC and Solaris. If you really really want Solaris you can still got for Open Solaris, otherwise go for OEL that would be my guess on their strategy.

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (2)

armanox (826486) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645936)

Hate to tell you this, but they killed OpenSolaris a long time ago.

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (1)

ILongForDarkness (1134931) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646052)

Oh crap so they did. That is what you get when you don't admin systems for a couple years :-) That stinks. Open Solaris was a bit crippled if I recall a lot of the features that were in the latest releases of Solaris weren't in the open version.

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646208)

Take a look at OpenSolaris Derivatives [wikipedia.org]. I think OpenIndiana is the best-maintained, but I have not used any of them personally.

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (2)

ToasterMonkey (467067) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646342)

Hate to tell you this, but they killed OpenSolaris a long time ago.

... as far as aspiring 3rd party Solaris contributors were concerned. For everyone else it was just renamed to Solaris 11 Express.

They probably suddenly ended transparency of Solaris development because they intend to phase it out, port everything to Linux and give it away. /sarcasm

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (3, Informative)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645976)

OEL for SPARC has already been announced.

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646270)

Fantastic!!! If they port all the major features of Solaris to OEL, then they can have the same unix for both Sparcservers as well as Opterons/Xeons. And OEL too might get the scalability that Solaris already has.

As an aside, is OEL based on Red Hat or Debian? Since both ports exist for Sparc (even if RH discontinued theirs), it shouldn't take long for Oracle to get the first version running, and then port everything else to it.

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646582)

IIRC it's based on RH

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (1)

MrNthDegree (2429298) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646808)

It's a complete clone of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, with an optional Oracle-bastardised version of the kernel.

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (1)

turgid (580780) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646730)

Fantastic!!! If they port all the major features of Solaris to OEL, then they can have the same unix for both Sparcservers as well as Opterons/Xeons.

Sorry, I'm having a sense-of-humour failure at the moment so I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic... but what about Solaris x86?

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (1)

MrNthDegree (2429298) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646816)

Sarcasm dude.

Solaris on x86 is a sad joke. The name "slowlaris" came about because of that hideous port.

Ever tried to run Solaris x86 on a normal PC? If you think Linux can't handle basic I/O on slow devices (really, try copying from multiple USB sticks at once and try to use your desktop to the same time!), Solaris lags up with the slightest bit of HDD I/O.

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (1)

ToasterMonkey (467067) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646310)

So, are they porting Solaris functionality to OEL as a precursor to phasing out Solaris entirely? It would suck to see Solaris go from a nostalgia point of view, but it never made much sense to me why one company would continue to develop two Unix-like operating systems.

I think it's more that they want to continue to differentiate OEL from RHEL and provide a direct migration path for RedHat customers to a full Oracle system.

Linux just doesn't make sense in my mind for the space Oracle's software competes in. It's not enterprise friendly. No stable driver ABI. No system interface stability standards. Nothing like Projects, iostat doesn't show tape drives, kernel and userland lack cohesion, to name few of my personal nitpicks, but overall... very little progress. A lot of things you can't change merely by running your own distro. I mean has it really changed the way we work over the last ten years? It feels stagnated while Solaris gets things like Projects, ZFS, dtrace, zones, native fibre channel stack, microstate accounting, init replacement, fault management, and I could go on and on and on. Linux picked up a journaled filesystem at some point in the last ten years /facepalm.

Nobody can convince me Linux should be The One Way forward while it still doesn't have userland utilities for managing SCSI and FC devices. sudo su -c "echo - - - > /sys/foo/wthrufingseriousbro"
That right there is so telling of the level of commitment put towards making Linux a decent server OS. Even fast forwarding to the latest upstream bits (which is cheating because you lose any semblance of interface stability RedHat might provide), I'm not convinced.

If Oracle did port all the cools bits of Solaris over to Linux, the result would have as much in common with Linux as FCoE has with Ethernet. They're not just going to give that to RedHat...

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (2)

MrNthDegree (2429298) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646954)

Just some ideas that come to mind and show that actually Solaris isn't as innovative as the Linux camp...

Linux kernel innovations which are more flexible than most alternatives:

SELinux - label-based security which allows flexible controls over the privileges of objects and how they may interact with other labelled objects [Trusted Solaris]
TOMOYO - pathname+history-based security which provides flexible controls over the privileges of processes and how they may interact with objects
AppArmor - pathname based security with flexible controls over the privileges of processes and how they may interact with files/network
cgroups - hierarchical scheduling, resource management customisable entirely by the user within software or through writing to files [Zone Resource Controls]
Kernel Namespaces - flexible separation of networking, PID tables, IPC etc. called simply from within clone() [Jails / Zones]
File Capabilities - labelling files with specific capabilities which would normally only be given to root - removing SETUID from a lot of files
User Mode Linux - port of Linux to run in userland atop a Linux kernel, paravirtualization (Linode built their business upon this)
Completely Fair Queuing (CFQ) - a decent method of prioritising I/O fairly, so that heavy I/O does not grind a desktop/server to a halt
Completely Fair Scheduling (CFS) - a decent method of prioritising CPU fairly, so that heavy CPU load does not grind a desktop/server to a halt
Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) - enables faster switching of terminals, simpler 2D acceleration and better security (Xorg no longer needs root) [Windows GDI]
Full NX Support - helps reduce the risk of successful exploitation of buffer overflows [Windows DEP / OpenBSD W^X]
Full ASLR Support / PIC / PIE - reduces risk of certain classes of exploit by randomising memory location of libraries
NILFS2 - infinite snapshotting log-based filesystem, theoretically capable of tracking every change ever made to files

GNU/Linux userland innovations:

systemd - purely Linux-oriented solution for fast, parallelised initialisation of services
AppArmor - simple way to lock down server/desktop processes interactively through a robust parser
libvirt - abstraction layer to allow many different types of virtualisation to be used in a common way
PolicyKit - secure method of enabling root processes to run without the risk of malicious X clients injecting commands
PackageKit - abstraction layer for a common method of updating/installing/removing packages
PulseAudio - low-latency abstraction layer for handling multiple audio systems, networking audio and multiplexing devices, with per-client volume controls
firewalld - applications can make D-BUS requests to open inbound ports and PolicyKit handles allow/deny, along with any uPnP requests (if allowed)
ABRT - automated bug reporting of most userland applications, sent to the distribution and/or the upstream developers [Windows Error Reporting]
kerneloops - automated reporting of kernel oops errors to detect potential common bugs in the kernel without manual user interference [Windows Error Reporting]
GCC SSP (ProPolice) - prevents buffer overflows in the stack through a canary value [Microsoft Visual Studio (C++) GS]

Re:Phasing out Solaris? (3, Insightful)

Fished (574624) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647284)

Yeah, Solaris has some pretty awesome features, but at the end of the day all that may be irrelevant in the face of Market Pressures. Sun for many years shot themselves in the foot by failing to deliver useful tools for things like patching/updating, mass installation of Solaris servers (yes, there is jumpstart/wanboot, but it is clearly deficient), and failing to deliver a decent native volume manager (ZFS) until Too Late, and then not having it support root filesystems until Way Too Late.

The reality of Solaris is that there are all these features that look awesome in theory, until you actually have to implement them and discover the practical implications. Take Zones. Zone sounds great, in theory. But, ever tried to patch a server with zones? It's a nightmare. And heaven help you if you actually have a server with zones from multiple, different apps and you need to get outage windows from all the different app groups in order to patch. Or LDoms. Again, they sound awesome. That is, until you realize that there are no tools to manage migrations when a server goes down hard (the most common case for which you would want to do a migration!) So, you end up having to write a bunch of scripts to duplicate LDom xml files etc. to do this, because Sun/Oracle didn't really think through how their technology would be used in a real environment. I also use AIX virtualization technology, and it's much better, and VMWare (which is what we use for Linux servers) blows them both out of the water.

Things like this are why a lot of major companies, including the one I work at, are leaving Solaris as fast as they can. The reality is that it takes twice as many SA's per server on Solaris as it does for any other platform, we have lower virtualization densities, and it therefore costs a lot more money to run. For the kind of money we're talking about, we can deal with a few echoes in the interface for SAN's.

Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37645724)

Hey Oracle,

Cool now bring ZFS to linux!

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

ZorinLynx (31751) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645738)

I doubt they would. ZFS is one of the last remaining reasons to run Solaris, pay for Solaris maint, etc... If they port ZFS to Linux they will lose quite a bit of that revenue stream.

We all want it; ZFS is a beautiful thing, we run it at our site and practically worship its awesomeness....but it probably won't happen.

FreeBSD? (4, Informative)

liquidhokie (2044274) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645770)

If you want Dtrace and ZFS, just go with FreeBSD. You get pf and jails thrown in for the effort.

Re:FreeBSD? (4, Interesting)

afabbro (33948) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645894)

So why is it possible for FreeBSD to have dtrace/zfs and not Linux? I ask out of ignorance...

(I am expecting the answer to be legal rather than technical/no one's gotten around to it)

Re:FreeBSD? (4, Insightful)

airencracken (993443) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645908)

Because the CDDL (which dtrace and zfs are licensed under) is incompatible with the GPL, but not the BSD license.

Re:FreeBSD? (1)

hjf (703092) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645962)

(I am expecting the answer to be legal rather than technical/no one's gotten around to it)

Stupid licensing issues.
There's always a way around technical stuff: http://zfsonlinux.org/ [zfsonlinux.org]

Re:FreeBSD? (3, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646646)

Linux is released under version 2 of the GNU General Public License. This imposes a few restrictions and says that the code may not be distributed linked to any code that imposes more restrictions, nor can any derived works impose any more restrictions than are present in the license.

FreeBSD is released under the 2-clause BSD license, which says, basically, do what you want with this, just don't sue me if it doesn't work and don't claim you wrote it.

OpenSolaris was released under the CDDL, which is generally less restrictive than the GPL (no restrictions on what you can link it to), but adds some anti-patent clauses that are not present in the GPL. Because these restrictions are not present in the GPL, the GPL prevents CDDL code from being linked against it. This means that if ZFS or DTrace were ever ported to Linux by anyone other than the copyright holder they would not be allowed to distribute Linux along with their port.

In FreeBSD, ZFS and DTrace are optional kernel modules, so you can still build a system without them, but they are loadable if you are happy to accept the terms of the CDDL when you distribute FreeBSD. There's no technical reason why either couldn't be ported to any system (well, the Linux storage stack is a mess, so adding ZFS would be a bit harder, but it could be done), but few people are motivated to produce a port when they are not legally allowed to redistribute it.

Re:FreeBSD? (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647002)

if ZFS or DTrace were ever ported to Linux

This is done [zfsonlinux.org] (largely). Sun was hired to do the block layer port. The POSIX implementation is independent.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645762)

oracle is working on btrfs [wikipedia.org] which has ifs features without replacing the entire fs/lvm/raid stack.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645870)

Well, whether or not that has any bearing on ZFS, unless they change the license on ZFS, they wouldn't have the ability to do it anyways. Or at least not without violating the terms of at least one of the involved licenses.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37645896)

But replacing the entire fs/lvm/raid stack is a good thing!

For the very same reasons that replacing Windows ME with the NT line was a good thing.

As I personally evaluated btrfs and ZFS for use as our company's main storage system, I can say that even the most bleeding-edge code still is in a whole different league than ZFS.
While ZFS looks and feels like something that people with a powerful vision thought long and hard about, before doing it the right way,
btrfs is a growth as messy as a mass of cancer, with people fighting over what they want and nothing really thought to the real end before trying to implement it. I know that the former (the btrfs growth) can still result in a good thing in the open-source community. But the latter is the real problem. It's way too half-assed. Something I can not live with, and that I can not with a good conscience recommend to anyone who trusts me.

I still wish, deep in my heart, that btrfs will "fuckin' kick ass and take names"(TM) in a couple of years, making ZFS look like a sorry joke. But it looks bad. :(

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

mysidia (191772) | more than 2 years ago | (#37645994)

But replacing the entire fs/lvm/raid stack is a good thing!

This is quite true... because frankly, the entire fs/lvm/raid stack sucks with big disks.

ZFS solution is a really good answer to a lot of problems -- scalability, manageability, reliability.

It would be a very good thing if Oracle would execute a port of ZFS to Linux (under the GPL, of course), and while they are at it... port AVS and Open HA/Cluster, as a superior alternative to DRBD, port the SMF as a replacement for init, the fault manager, configuration management CLI tools, and other similar tools that could really fill in some serious gaps in Linux.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

hjf (703092) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646076)

Agreed, and it reminds me of the #1 argument against ZFS: BUT BUT BUT IT BREAKS LAYERS, OH NOES!

And the second one: ZFS doesn't have fsck!! What's one going to do without a proper fsck? ZFS IS A JOKE!

Once you get familiar with ZFS you realize how much sense it makes, even if it violates "rules". For example, someone complained about the fact that zfs does LOTS of checksums, wasting CPU cycles; and doesn't have fsck. Well, it doesn't have fsck BECAUSE it does lots of checksums. Do you have time to wait for that 20TB arrayto finish fscking? I don't (is 20TB even "large" nowadays?) . And my CPU is powerful enough to cope with the "high demand" (sheesh!) of ZFS checksumming.

ZFS is a *reliable* filesystem. Not a lightweight, or "high performance" one.

Luckily with bigger drives people will start realizing that "life's too short" to wait for fsck to finish.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646116)

The checksumming argument is a joke, there's zero overhead on Solaris/sparc, with all of the cryptographic co-processors available to the Niagara (T1-T4) and relatively recent Sparc64 (SparcVII+ I think), and that's with sha256 and deduplication verification on. Who'd have throught, something designed to be integrated into Solaris is also designed to hook into sparc's hardware-level features.

Considering what it brings to the table (copy-on-write/nearly free snapshots, self-healing, block-level deduplication, data integrity, integrated cross-platofrm compatible (NFSv4/WinNT style) ACLs ,etc, etc) it's fairly high performance for what it does (That, and once you put the ZIL on an SSD, it flies).
It's not even that it doesn;t have Fsck, it doesn;t need it, you scrub ZFS volumes while they're live, with the data still available. Fsck is pointless. You still have to wait for a scrub to finish, but it doesn't stop you from accessing your data.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (2)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646684)

The worst thing about the first complaint is that ZFS actually does have very clean layering. At the bottom you have the storage pool allocator at the bottom is basically malloc() for persistent storage (equivalent to the block device layer, but with a more convenient interface), the data management unit sits on top of this and provides transactional I/O to the underlying storage, and the ZFS POSIX layer sits on top of this and provides POSIX filesystem semantics. You could replace the ZPL with something that provides things that look like raw block devices (ZVOLS - used for iSCSI shares, among other things), and you could also fairly easily add something that provided an SQL interface to storage, since the transactional support is all done a layer lower down the stack.

The second complaint is really a matter of semantics. Scrubbing a ZFS partition provides a superset of the functionality of fsck. Not only does it validate and repair the metadata, it also validates and repairs the data on the disks. Most ZFS users don't need to run it, because all it really does is try to read every file on the disk - the underlying filesystem code performs the repairs automatically any time some read data fails the checksums.

I think the real problem with ZFS is the name. Calling it a filesystem makes people mentally class it as something like UFS or ext2fs, when it's actually a complete storage stack.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646866)

ZFS has two major issues missing. You can't scrub a file as in "I have a legal obligation to overwrite the contents of this file", you just can't ever do it on ZFS. The other problem with ZFS is that there is no way to tell it "This file is magic for the boot process, please put it in the first N physical sectors on the physical disk Y"

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

mysidia (191772) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647198)

ZFS has two major issues missing. You can't scrub a file as in "I have a legal obligation to overwrite the contents of this file"

You're right that there are some extremely unusual requirements that ZFS won't meet. You also can't use SSDs with wear levering or any decently modern hard drive, because modern hard drives have block relocation functions; sometimes a sector is taken out of service and replaced with a "spare block"; if it is found to be failing or predicted to fail. The result is that on modern hard drives you can never be sure you "meet your legal obligation".

The only real reliable way to ensure you destroy the data is to encrypt it from the beginning; dedicate a storage medium to the encryption key, and when your obligation comes to eliminate the data, physically destroy the medium you placed the key on.

The other problem with ZFS is that there is no way to tell it "This file is magic for the boot process, please put it in the first N physical sectors on the physical disk Y"

Put a file on the first N physical sectors. Is a rampant layering violation even bigger than the claimed layering violation of ZFS. If for some reason you actually needed to do that, it would mean your system is broken.. Reasonably modern systems have no hard requirements on what physical portion of the disk the OS resides on.

I would say use a separate pair of very small hardware RAID mirrored bootdisks (or USB stick) and put a 100 megabyte UFS file system on the boot volume for booting in that case.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

makomk (752139) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646898)

For example, someone complained about the fact that zfs does LOTS of checksums, wasting CPU cycles; and doesn't have fsck. Well, it doesn't have fsck BECAUSE it does lots of checksums. Do you have time to wait for that 20TB arrayto finish fscking?

Which is a nice idea until something (for example a ZFS bug or a hardware glitch) causes part of the ZFS metadata to become corrupted, and the only way to get your 20 TB array working again is to dump all of the data somewhere else, recreate the array from scratch, and reload all the data.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

mysidia (191772) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647222)

Which is a nice idea until something (for example a ZFS bug or a hardware glitch) causes part of the ZFS metadata to become corrupted

The ZFS pool root metadata is protected by having 3 copies of it on the file system, and metadata blocks are checksumed just as the rest of the data blocks.

"dump all of the data somewhere else, recreate the array from scratch, and reload all the data" is really something you should never have to do with ZFS, unless you actually have a storage device failure, and you don't have a redundant device that a clean copy of the data can be read from (e.g. Mirror or RAIDZ).

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

mysidia (191772) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647164)

For example, someone complained about the fact that zfs does LOTS of checksums

Yes it does.

However, thanks to a new enhancement in the Xeon 5500 CPUs, called SSE4.2 instruction set, there is actually a CPU instruction for CRC32 accumulation.

Oh wow... we're going to use a couple extra CPU clock cycles per read and write to protect our actual data integrity, to allow us to do "online scrubs" of the filesystem to check for any surface errors instead of some limited arcane "filesystem metadata level consistency" called fsck that requires downtime, and FSCK does not check for or repair data integrity; because without checksums our ext3/ext4 filesystems don't know anything about data bit errors, latent surface errors, bit rot, or "silent data corruption" as it's called.

The checksums using a couple clock cycles per I/O... must be a "lot" slower than having many hours of downtime to check our filesystem, if god forbid our system should go down uncleanly, or we should reboot and the "maximum mount" count or "maximum time" since the last fsck happens to have been found to be exceeded while we are trying to boot back up. feh:)

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

hjf (703092) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647438)

Yes I forgot about new CPU instructions for checksumming and stuff, but even without them, CPUs today are SO powerful that I doubt you can peg all CPU cores. And if you're running a 20TB+ array I doubt you'll be running it in the same physical box as the DB server. You probably have a DB server with a ZFS backing store, connected by 10gbe or infiniband, or some other means.

If you have a single box, probably even multiple multi-core CPUs. So hitting a 100% CPU usage would be unusual (I mean, you're supposed to size your server to make 100% cpu usage unusual)

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

mysidia (191772) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647856)

Yes I forgot about new CPU instructions for checksumming and stuff, but even without them, CPUs today are SO powerful that I doubt you can peg all CPU cores.

Well... I can peg all CPU cores easily, if i'm not too careful, and put too many VMs on a compute host..

But part of the deal is storage hosts should not be compute hosts

ZFS is the filesystem you can use to provide storage services to other hosts.

This allows every bit of CPU to be used to serve the targets, and to provide the LZJB compression and dedup.

This allows the expensive mirrored SSD ZIL log devices and SSD read cache devices on one or two ZFS servers to benefit every application.

This allows every bit of those 64gbs of RAM to be used efficiently for filesystem caching.

This allows the total sum of all those TBs of storage on attached JBODs to be available for alloction to any server that requires storage.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

hjf (703092) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646018)

Developing something like ZFS is pretty simple. Just get some of the world's best programmers, have them work in a project, with good management and leadership, and test and fix bugs. And tell them they're free to do it ANY way they want, there's no "right" or "wrong". There's no obligation in using md, LVM and an FS on top. In fact, md and LVM were created to overcome the filesystem's limitations. If you're creating a fs from the ground up, you might as well skip md and LVM. But some people in mailing lists think rules have to be followed strictly, and you're an idiot if you don't "layer" properly because it's Written In The Book.

Too much layering is not good either... and, you know what? The 7-layer OSI model is just a model. TCP/IP doesn't have 7 layer: it "only" has 4.

Which is why Linux moves so slowly. Features take ages to develop, unless Red Hat or someone else throws in some code and makes stuff work. Otherwise, it's just the brainchild of someone that does it in his free time... and has to take shit from any random idiot.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (3, Interesting)

hjf (703092) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646046)

And why do you want to keep the raid and LVM stack?

If you're creating a filesystem and you can make it aware of its own backing storage (and adjust stuff like block size - cause you know, there are disks with 4K sectors now), and have it manage caching by itself (and thus, be aware of how much memory the has, and how much of it is actually RAM and not virtual), and have it check for redundancy and do online checks and repairs - which you realize it's just awesome if you ever try to do fsck on a 20TB filesystem (and because it knows how much data it's actually used, have it only check what's used, instead of blindly regenerating blank space for an array of disks). And variable strip size, and thin provisioning, CoW and free snapshots and clones, and a lot of other stuff ZFS does because it doesn't need to "respect its elders" LVM and md.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

Electricity Likes Me (1098643) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646408)

ZFS basically does everything I would want in a server file system (hell: any filesystem) and it's a crime that it hasn't been ported to Linux (and that OpenSolaris is sufficiently dead now that you can't run it on newer hardware at all).

We live in an age of 4-core CPUs being commodity items - ANY system can spare the cycles to ensure it's own data integrity since what else are you going to do with them? (alternately: if you need them, then why does that particular machine deal with having a hard disk anyway?)

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646458)

I just built a 32TB ZFS cluster using OpenIndiana. The soul of OpenSolaris still lives.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646630)

(..) it's a crime that it hasn't been ported to Linux

http://zfsonlinux.org/ [zfsonlinux.org]

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

Electricity Likes Me (1098643) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646666)

The POSIX layer isn't stable yet.

ZFS really comes into it's own when you can mount all your home directories as filesystems and use cheap snapshots for upto the minute backups for your user accounts.

That said, I will take another run at it sometime soon I suspect.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (2)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646714)

OpenSolaris may be dead, but FreeBSD now ships with version 28 of ZFS, which includes nice things like deduplication. iXSystems, which sells storage appliances based on FreeBSD, is funding ongoing development work, so ZFS on FreeBSD is going to stay actively maintained irrespective of whether Oracle makes future versions of the code available. FreeBSD also got the ability to boot from ZFS before Solaris and integrates ZFS very nicely into the existing storage stack (it works as a GEOM consumer and provider, so you can easily do things like put a FAT partition in a ZVOL and have transactional I/O and deduplication on the filesystem used by a Windows 95 virtual machine).

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647014)

I WANT to replace the entire fs/lvm/raid stack! It sucks! It's complicated, limits functionality and is a nightmare to maintain. ZFS is simple, flexible and powerful.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

Luckster7 (234417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646178)

It is on Linux: http://zfsonlinux.org/

I've been using Nexenta to get ZFS for about 5 years, however earlier this year I switched my new installs to Linux. ZFS on Linux has been working great for me and my clients. This is not to be confused with fuse ZFS.

Re:Bring ZFS to linux! (1)

GrumpyOldMan (140072) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647144)

I'm running with this version, and it is working great for me on my first test machine (8T raid-z with an L2-ARC)

Licensing problems (CDDL is toxic) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37645990)

Problem is Oracle will only be dual-licensing some Kernel hooks under the GPL and CDDL. The majority of DTrace (kernel modules, tools, etc.) will be licensed under the CDDL which is not really compatible with the GPL:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html [gnu.org] and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Development_and_Distribution_License [wikipedia.org]

Common Development and Distribution License (CDDL), version 1.0 (#CDDL)

This is a free software license. It has a copyleft with a scope that's similar to the one in the Mozilla Public License, which makes it incompatible with the GNU GPL. This means a module covered by the GPL and a module covered by the CDDL cannot legally be linked together. We urge you not to use the CDDL for this reason.

So basically only Oracle will ship Dtrace on Linux, no other vendor in their right mind will ship it due to the issues around the toxic CDDL license =(.

Re:Licensing problems (CDDL is toxic) (0)

_merlin (160982) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646082)

Oh stop it already. The GPL is just as toxic. All these damn viral copyleft licenses are toxic. Issues like these project an image of "free software" and "open source" advocates as squabbling children. As long as this keeps up you are limiting scope for acceptance.

Re:Licensing problems (CDDL is toxic) (1)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646366)

GPL is not toxic.

Pure freedom is even worse situation than pure chaos. You need limitations and rules what can not be done and what should be done.

Re:Licensing problems (CDDL is toxic) (1)

WorBlux (1751716) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646836)

It is toxic to an extent. It can in some cases prevent a bit of cooperation that would aide just about everyone involved were it possible. However on the other hand MIT and BSD could be classified as weak in not giving patent licences, and not being copyleft. Every license has it's own costs and advantages. MIT and BSD can be very advantageous if the rate of development can outpace closed efforts or your project has universal interoperability as a goal. Don't get me wrong I think the GPL is a great legal hack, but it isn't the one license to rule them all.

Great technology story! (4, Interesting)

bdgregg (744616) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646006)

This is a great technology story - even if only for one version of Linux so far. DTrace will bring tremendous value for troubleshooting and performance analysis, and is a technology I use (almost) every day.

For example, yesterday I had a CPU bound workload with an unexpected level of variation, and used DTrace to measure the effect of CPU thread affinity and interrupt activity on that workload. I used DTrace to pull the runtime along with other details: number of scheduling events for that thread, along with the CPUs that the thread ran on; also, for preemption, the pre-emptor thread (to see why) along with both its user-level and kernel stack traces; also the interrupt thread and device. I fairly quickly showed that the runtime variation was caused by network interface interrupts from an entirely different application. This analysis would take quite a lot longer without DTrace, and may be prohibitively difficult to complete.

Many of my uses of DTrace are much more straightforward than that; including identifying file system latency for applications, application response time, and CPU dispatcher queue latency. I've listed many more examples in the DTrace book (http://www.dtracebook.com). It should be a great resource of ideas for those looking to use DTrace on Linux - since the hardest part for people has been knowing where to start, given the ability to see everything.

I suspect Oracle is trying for a cash grab (1)

msobkow (48369) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646448)

I suspect Oracle is trying for another cash grab. Port the parts of DTrace that have to be in the kernel and open source them, then sell an add-on package (perhaps only for their Linux) with the rest of the functionality. Let's face it -- Oracle is much more focused and effective at monetizing technology than Sun ever was.

Re:I suspect Oracle is trying for a cash grab (1)

WorBlux (1751716) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646844)

I don't think they'll convince anyone at the Linux foundation to maintain their hooks in the kernel, So I only see it as an extra feature you get should you use their long-term kernel release and buy their support.

Re:I suspect Oracle is trying for a cash grab (1)

drolli (522659) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646998)

I guess Oracle wants to sell complete Boxes with Hardware to Database included. If the customer asks why the box does not perform ask predicted, with the total price, there may be a reliable answer required. So if the customer wants to run the box on linux, the mechanisms to answer these questions must be available in linux.

Re:I suspect Oracle is trying for a cash grab (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37647806)

They've been doing that for the last few years. The database box is called ExaData, and the middleware box is called Exalogic and it's built on top of Oracle Linux running their own, jokes aside, "Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel". And according to Oracle and their business performance (disclosure I am a small stock holder), they are selling pretty damn well.

Re:I suspect Oracle is trying for a cash grab (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37647066)

I know it's the Oracle etc. but seriously, I'd actually pay for DTrace for Linux. Half the time I see it used it's just jaw dropping.

Re:Great technology story! (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646862)

The main question is, is it really feasible? And the other question is, what would dtrace give us that we don't already have with systemtap, besides compatibility with slowlaris? The first question tells us if we should pay attention and the second one tells us if we should care.

Too Late...WE DONT NEED IT...we got SystemTap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646042)

Sorry Larry, too late. Linux does not need it.

Got news for you, Solaris is not quite as special as you think it is.

Linux already has SystemTap.

You can keep slowlaris and go play with it by yourself.

Re:Too Late...WE DONT NEED IT...we got SystemTap (3, Insightful)

_merlin (160982) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646086)

You obviously haven't had to use both in anger. SystemTap is another "me too" project like so many things on Linux, where the only people saying it's as good are the people who haven't used the product it's an imitation of. Oh, and then there's the RMS type who will say it's "better because freedom has value" or something to that effect. Doesn't help you when you're actually trying to tune an application for performance.

Re:Too Late...WE DONT NEED IT...we got SystemTap (1)

The Man (684) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646486)

You know what's even more annoying than Linux's "me too" projects? All the stuff they COULD imitate but don't. I have no idea why Linux admins still have to grovel through logs or use stuff like splunk to guess at what's wrong with their hardware, but they do. Even a lousy knockoff is better than pretending the problem doesn't exist and leaving people to cobble together inferior workarounds.

Re:Too Late...WE DONT NEED IT...we got SystemTap (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647022)

Oh, and then there's the RMS type who will say it's "better because freedom has value" or something to that effect. Doesn't help you when you're actually trying to tune an application for performance.

Yeah, it only gets you the very operating system you're trying to tun your application on.

Another Linux Today link... (1)

SwedishChef (69313) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646132)

This story appeared yesterday on Linux Today. And it's not even close to the first time this has happened. If we can read about this first on Linux Today then what's the point of coming to Slashdot? Especially 24 hours late.

Re:Another Linux Today link... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646268)

Because not everyone reads linux today?

Re:Another Linux Today link... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646360)

The point would be to read it with your own language and with better content. Neither of those are true.
So only thing to read about that, is not about reading about it but reading about the comments about it.

I love one Android (and available for iOS as I would think) application what is for tablets and smartphones and it is a News360.
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.news360.news360app [android.com]
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.news360.news360tablet [android.com]

It is awesome on tablet, great on phone. As it allows you to find out other articles from same news but from different providers. You can have quick way to see what others are writing about and leave all those RSS and Bookmarks. Just pick topic and then you can scroll trough the list and quickly you find out how the opinions are different and who is more or less just copy-cat.

Too bad thing is that News360 does not query all news from local. It really would be awesome function to get every small released news from it. As it build great mashup for those who just want quick glance of the happening.

Oh, and did I forget to mention that it is little bit like wikipedia, where you can easily click keywords in articles to query them from all other news? Locations, people, happenings etc.

/. gets WIDE exposure to crowds is why (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646986)

See subject-line above: It's pretty "self-explanatory" - this place has a LARGE following daily is why (probably wider & larger than the source article's site in fact)...


P.S.=> Above ALL else? This site's mainly known as a "news aggregator" - &, that means it finds good articles that users submit for discussion, & up on the pages here it goes (straight from whatever horses' mouth, for community commentary here) - that's all, & thus? /.'s functioning JUST AS IT SHOULD, & ALWAYS HAS, doing what it was made to do is all!...

... apk

Re:/. gets WIDE exposure to crowds is why (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37647616)

What's with the bold and allcaps? Why are you using 'P.S.' in an editable submission form? Why is the P.S. longer than the original message? What's wrong with you?

Don't like it? Don't READ it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37648048)

And, until you show us all with proof that you in fact have a PhD in English to make you an "expert" on the English language, AND, that you show us some certification that makes YOU "the master of how to post online in forums"? Tough cookies - you're no authority, & certainly in no place to give orders or advisement.


P.S.=> So, what's wrong with YOU? Plenty... delusions of grandeur apparently being one of your issues, in thinking you're somekind of "authority" on how to post in forums, for Pete's sake, lol... apk

Are you on topic? No - go away, troll! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37648062)

See subject-line above: "Drink it in, & digest it"... you off-topic troll!


You're outnumbered 160:1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37648176)

Per my subject-line, as to my posts being ok by others here? See this vs. your "mere opinion", you wannabe master of how to post online, lol:

Roughly 160++ of them & I post as AC (hard to get even +1, as /. hides our posts & we "AC"'s start @ ZERO/0 points, unlike registered "lusers", lol!):

+5 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (8):

HOSTS & BGP:2010 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1901826&cid=34490450 [slashdot.org]
TESLA:2010 -> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1872982&cid=34264190 [slashdot.org]
NVIDIA 2d:2006 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=175774&cid=14610147 [slashdot.org]
TESLA:2010 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1806946&cid=33777976 [slashdot.org]
CA DISREPUTABLE #2 of 2:2010 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1884922&cid=34350102 [slashdot.org]
EXCEL SECURITY FIX:2009 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1139485&cid=26975021 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE (old one):2005 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170545&cid=14210206 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURE SETUP FOR IP STACK:2005 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170545&cid=14211084 [slashdot.org]


+4 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (4):

INFO. SYSTEMS WORK:2005 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=161862&cid=13531817 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2005 -> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=167071&cid=13931198 [slashdot.org]
WINDOWS @ NASDAQ 7++ YRS. NOW:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1290967&cid=28571315 [slashdot.org]
CARMACK'S ARMADILLO AEROSPACE:2005 -> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=158310&cid=13263898 [slashdot.org]


+3 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (7):

APK MICROSOFT INTERVIEW:2005 -> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=155172&cid=13007974 [slashdot.org]
APK MS SYMBOLIC DIRECTORY LINKS:2005 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166850&cid=13914137 [slashdot.org]
APK FOOLS IE7 INSTALL IN BETA HOW TO:2006 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=175857&cid=14615222 [slashdot.org]
PROOFS ON OPERA SPEED & SECURITY:2007 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=273931&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=20291847 [slashdot.org]
APK RC STOP ROOKIT TECHNIQUES:2008 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1021873&cid=25681261 [slashdot.org]
INJUSTICES:2010 -> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1754650&cid=33255474 [slashdot.org]
HBGary POST in Fake Names On Social Networks, a Fake Problem:2011 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2375110&cid=37056304 [slashdot.org]


+2 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (24):

HOW DLL API CALL LOADS WORK:2008 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1001489&cid=25441395 [slashdot.org]
APK TRICK TO STOP A MALWARE:2008 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1010923&cid=25549351 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2009 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1361585&cid=29360367 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2009 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1218837&cid=27787281 [slashdot.org]
MHTML SECURITY BUG FIX IE:2011 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1973914&cid=35056454 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2008 -> http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=970939&cid=25093275 [slashdot.org]
DOING SHAREWARE 1995-2004:2007 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=233779&cid=19020329 [slashdot.org]
EXCEL SECURITY FIX:2009 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1139485&cid=26974507 [slashdot.org]
CODING JOBS OFFSHORING:2007 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=245971&cid=19760473 [slashdot.org]
MS PUTS YOU TO WORK:2006 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=174759&cid=14538593 [slashdot.org]
ARSTECHNICA LOL:2008 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1021733&cid=25675515 [slashdot.org]
OPERA MULTITHREADING:2007 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=290711&cid=20506147 [slashdot.org]
SECURE CODING 4 DEFCON:2005 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=158231&cid=13257227 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2008 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=416702&cid=22026982 [slashdot.org]
POLITICIAN PERFORMANCE:2008 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=978035&cid=25176955 [slashdot.org]
POLITICIAN PERFORMANCE:2008 ->http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=978035&cid=25176841
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2009 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1135717&cid=26941781 [slashdot.org]
WINDOWS @ NASDAQ + LINUX DOWNSIDE:2009 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1162247&cid=27211247 [slashdot.org]
WERNER VON BRAUN:2011 -> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1957608&cid=34933062 [slashdot.org]
WINDOWS C/C++ TO ASM:2010 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1546446&cid=31109564 [slashdot.org]
LINUX SECURITY BUGS LISTING:2009 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1244697&cid=28100153 [slashdot.org]
APK ROOTKITS:2005 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=165958&cid=13843462 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2009 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1135717&cid=26941781 [slashdot.org]
FILTERING ONLINE:2010 -> http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1790178&cid=33610372 [slashdot.org]


+1 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (90) & we AC's start at ZERO, not 1 or 2 like registered users on /. do:

APK ON RESERVED PORTS IN WINDOWS:2007 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=235621&cid=19229493 [slashdot.org]
APK ON WINDOWS DFS vs. LINUX COPYING FEATURES LIKE IT:2008 -> http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=447752&cid=22361236 [slashdot.org]
APK STOPPED CONFICKER BEFORE ANYONE DID:2009 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1159209&cid=27178753 [slashdot.org]
DISASSEMBLY & PROTECTING CODE:2010 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1719570&cid=32907418 [slashdot.org]
SECURITY BUGS LINUX vs. WINDOWS:2011 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2247480&cid=36485068 [slashdot.org]
OPERA "SUPERIOR WARRIOR":2009 -> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1309763&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=28768721 [slashdot.org]
LINUX SECURITY vs. JAVASCRIPT:2010 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1820234&cid=33892258 [slashdot.org]
DATASTRUCTURES & SQL:2011 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2080454&cid=35794668 [slashdot.org]
LINUX WENT DOWN 2x in LESS THAN 1 YEAR @ London Stock Exchange:2011 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1999478&cid=35231358 [slashdot.org]
DO YOUR BEST WORK OUR YOUNG MENS LIVES RIDE ON IT:2010 -> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1898806&cid=34472826 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS LOOPBACK OPERATIONS:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1743902&cid=33147354 [slashdot.org]
NORTON DNS & DNSBL -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2311948&cid=36708742 [slashdot.org]
BINARY HEAPS:2010 -> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1686094&cid=32581292 [slashdot.org]
NYSE+LINUX STOCK EXCHANGE LIE BY PENGUINS:2010 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1842764&cid=34046376 [slashdot.org]
MULTIPLE MESSAGE QUEUES:2010 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1618508&cid=31847246 [slashdot.org]
STAT I/II SKEWING:2010 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1504756&cid=30711074 [slashdot.org]
SSD DECADES OF USAGE:2009 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1273501&cid=28375697 [slashdot.org]
SLASHDOT "Pro-*NIX" SLANT CONTROVERSY = GOOD:2005 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=154725&cid=12974078 [slashdot.org]
OPERA=FASTER & MORE SECURE:2005 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=157615&cid=13208800 [slashdot.org]
MINIMUM WINDOWS SERVICES:2005 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=157321&cid=13190570 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE (old one):2005 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=154868&cid=12988150 [slashdot.org]
WINDOWS vs. IBM vs. LINUX ARCHITECTURE STEALING:2005 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=160244&cid=13414756 [slashdot.org]
APK & FIREFOX BUGFIX TEAM:2005 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=161697&cid=13526010 [slashdot.org]
SEARCH ENGINES:2005 -> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=162717&cid=13598832 [slashdot.org]
HIDDEN SECURITY BUGS:2005 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=164039&cid=13698742 [slashdot.org]
CACHE COHERENCY:2005 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=168793&cid=14070783 [slashdot.org]
PORTING CODE:2007 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=236367&cid=19291677 [slashdot.org]
POLITICALS:2007 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=237091&cid=19362755 [slashdot.org]
APK CONGRATS TO LINUX:2005 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170296&cid=14192885 [slashdot.org]
APK KUDOS TO LINUX:2005 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=162921&cid=13614370 [slashdot.org]
WINDOWS EMPLOYS YOU BETTER:2006 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=174277&cid=14498965 [slashdot.org]
WHY OPERA ROCKS:2005 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170983&cid=14242283 [slashdot.org]
PROOF MS HAD LESS BUGS THAN LINUX/MACOS X:2005 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=173564&cid=14442403 [slashdot.org]
PROOF MS HAD LESS BUGS THAN LINUX/MACOS X:2006 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=173016&cid=14398069 [slashdot.org]
MS PUTS YOU TO WORK:2005 -> http://books.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169549&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=109&mode=thread&cid=14132540 [slashdot.org]
APK SANDBOXING IE:2007 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=236547&cid=19310513 [slashdot.org]
LINUX IMITATING WINDOWS:2005 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170126&cid=14177851 [slashdot.org]
DELPHI ROCKS VB/VC++:2007 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=236049&cid=19261269 [slashdot.org]
MEMORY FRAGMENTATION IN FF:2007 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=367219&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=21434061 [slashdot.org]
CODING PROFESSIONALLY:2005 -> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170925&cid=14238424 [slashdot.org]
OPERA vs. FIREFOX:2007 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=286721&cid=20452183 [slashdot.org]
CODING .NET FROM VB:2006 -> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=176229&cid=14641701 [slashdot.org]
"666":2008 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=548476&cid=23353722 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2008 -> http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=970939&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&no_d2=1&cid=25092677 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2008 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1027095&cid=25747655 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY TEST CHALLENGE LINUX vs. WINDOWS:2007 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=267599&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=20203061 [slashdot.org]
APK ON PROCESSEXPLORER & NETSTAT:2009 -> http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1328371&cid=28981169 [slashdot.org]
APK ROOTKIT.COM ON WINDOWS VISTA IPSTACK SECURITY:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1339085&cid=29106629 [slashdot.org]
APK SYSTEM TUNING:2010 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1497268&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=30649722 [slashdot.org]
APK SYSTEM TUNING:2010 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1497268&cid=30649722 [slashdot.org]
APK ON HARDCODES & SHELLOPEN ASSOCIATION:2010 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519842&cid=30854906 [slashdot.org]
USING CSC & SCIENCE TOGETHER IN ACADEMIA:2010 -> http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1531366&cid=30971224 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2010 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1638428&cid=32070500 [slashdot.org]
DR. DEMENTO SHOW:2010 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1678308&cid=32494990 [slashdot.org]
APK ON PLANTED SHILLS BY TELECOM/ISP/BSP:2010 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1827308&cid=33940988 [slashdot.org]
CA DISREPUTABLE #2 of 2:2010 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1884922&cid=34351020 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2010 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1885890&cid=34358316 [slashdot.org]
APK ON SANDBOXIE:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1875754&cid=34281930 [slashdot.org]
NO PROOF USED BY LOB:2010 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907190&cid=34529734 [slashdot.org]
ON KIDS CODING & ARMCHAIR QB's:2011 -> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2040490&cid=35508400 [slashdot.org]
APK Windows vs. Linux on UNPATCHED SEC. VULNS:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2059420&cid=35656126 [slashdot.org]
CYBERSECURITY LEGISLATIONS:2011 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2222868&cid=36379698 [slashdot.org]
LAMP SECURITY:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2243006&cid=36462748 [slashdot.org]
BANNER ADS & BANDWIDTH:2011 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2139088&cid=36077722 [slashdot.org]
FPGA & TERMINATORS:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2341586&cid=36842168 [slashdot.org]
MICROSOFT SECURITY:2010 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1546446&cid=31106612 [slashdot.org]
APK USING KDE & LINUX:2010 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1750240&cid=33214838 [slashdot.org]
RON PAUL & WIKILEAKS:2010 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907000&cid=34528958 [slashdot.org]
OPERA:2007 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=233227&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=18969947 [slashdot.org]
PROGRAMMING CONCEPTS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SYNTAX:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1314993&cid=28827429 [slashdot.org]
COMPLETION PORTS + SCHEDULING LINUX vs. WINDOWS:2005 -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=160290&cid=13419053 [slashdot.org]
BEING MORE "ALL AROUND" THAN 1 DIMENSIONAL IN IT/IS/MIS:2005 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166174&cid=13863159 [slashdot.org]
APK SECURITY GUIDE (old one):2005 -> http://books.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=168931&cid=14083927 [slashdot.org]
IRON FILESYSTEMS:2007 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=359507&cid=21347933 [slashdot.org]
GET RID OF S. BALLMER @ MS:2008 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=543962&cid=23310698 [slashdot.org]
APK SSD/RamDrive/RamDisk usage since 1996:2008 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1014349&cid=25591403 [slashdot.org]
WINDOWS vs. LINUX SECURITY ISSUES:2009 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1135717&cid=26948399 [slashdot.org]
WINDOWS #CPU's SUPPORTED (much higher now in Win7/Srv2k8 now, 256):2009 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1160287&cid=27191729 [slashdot.org]
LINUX & JAVASCRIPT ETC.:2009 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1266651&cid=28307523 [slashdot.org] /. "CATERING TO CRONIES":2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1664046&cid=32336794 [slashdot.org]
APK ON CHESS:2010 -> http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1877160&cid=34293988 [slashdot.org]
WINDOWS vs. Linux vs. Mac SECURITY VULNS UNPATCHED:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&cid=32524188 [slashdot.org]
1 GOOD THING ABOUT HACKER/CRACKERS:2011 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1982796&cid=35119212 [slashdot.org]
OPERA BY SITE PREFS:2010 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1881444&cid=34333758 [slashdot.org]
WINDOWS vs. Linux SECURITY VULNS UNPATCHED:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2077414&cid=35776848 [slashdot.org]
CHROME NEEDS BY SITE PREFS TO SANITYINANARCHY:2011 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2358734&cid=36946676 [slashdot.org]
APK ROOTKIT KILLING TECHNIQUE USING RC:2011 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2428486&cid=37405530 [slashdot.org]
DISK DEFRAG STRATEGY OPTIONS:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2435272&cid=37443738 [slashdot.org]
APK PART OF ULTRADEFRAG64 PROOF:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2435272&cid=37443252 [slashdot.org]


* THE HOSTS FILE GROUP 26++ THUSFAR (from +3 -> +1 RATINGS, usually "informative" or "interesting" etc./et al): in HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1197039&cid=27556999 [slashdot.org] IN HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1143349&cid=27012231 [slashdot.org] in HOSTS:2009 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1198841&cid=27580299 [slashdot.org] in HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1206409&cid=27661983 [slashdot.org] in HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1139705&cid=26977225 [slashdot.org]
ADBANNERS & VIRUSES:2005 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169309&cid=14112880 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907266&cid=34529608 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1490078&cid=30555632 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1869638&cid=34237268 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1461288&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=30272074 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1255487&cid=28197285 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1206409&cid=27661983 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725068&cid=32960808 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1743902&cid=33147274 [slashdot.org]
APK 20++ POINTS ON HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1913212&cid=34576182 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1862260&cid=34186256 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1319261&cid=28872833 [slashdot.org] (still says INSIGHTFUL)
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 (w/ facebook known bad sites blocked) -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1924892&cid=34670128 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS FILE MOD UP FOR ANDROID MALWARE:2010 -> http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1930156&cid=34713952 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP ZEUSTRACKER:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2059420&cid=35654066 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP vs AT&T BANDWIDTH CAP:2011 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2116504&cid=35985584 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP CAN DO SAME AS THE "CloudFlare" Server-Side service:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2220314&cid=36372850 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS and BGP +5 RATED (BEING HONEST):2010 http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1901826&cid=34490450 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS & PROTECT IP ACT:2011 http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2368832&cid=37021700 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP:2011 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2457766&cid=37592458 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP & OPERA HAUTE SECURE:2011 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2457274&cid=37589596 [slashdot.org]


* So, "that all said & aside" (& the ratings? I didn't do the saying of those, mind you)? Well - it's quite obvious that You've been "pwned" & U FAIL, hugely...

("Argue with the numbers"... as well as your peers here, per the above evidences to that effect...)


P.S.=> The odds as you can see, are against you & your off-topic b.s. ...

... apk

Re:Another Linux Today link... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37647510)

Because some of us don't read Linux Today but are interested by this piece of news ?
Have you ever seen these moving things outside ? It's called human beings and they don't all do the same things than you.

And by "Kernel" people understands it is synonym? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646340)

And with "Kernel" people understands it is a synonym to Operating System?

So Oracle is porting SunOS functions to Linux
From OS to OS, leaving userland out of the port.

I'd rather they ported ZFS instead (1)

melted (227442) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646434)

Btrfs seems to have been in development forever, and the developers on the one hand say that it's mostly stable, but on the other there are still some pretty scare bugs. It doesn't make a terrible amount of sense for Oracle to develop two next-gen CoW filesystems.

Re:I'd rather they ported ZFS instead (1)

impaledsunset (1337701) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647710)

Porting ZFS would take more effort than completing Btrfs, while Dtrace provides functionality that doesn't exist at all. I wouldn't mind a ZFS port, since after using both, I kinda prefer it to Btrfs, but it's better to first port what's new and doesn't exist at all, and then go to porting things that are already there.

next: the lawsuit (1)

t2t10 (1909766) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646444)

After bringing DTrace to Linux, they are then likely going to turn around and sue people somehow; kind of like they did with Java.

Don't use anything from Oracle; they are worse than Microsoft.

Re:next: the lawsuit (1)

WorBlux (1751716) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646854)

Google ran into problems because they didn't want to touch the GPL'ed sun code. If google had just used that code, modified it for their own use and re-named it they would have been protected by the implicit patent license in the GPL code and wouldn't have been sued. It was Andy Rubin's fear of the GPL that put Google in the position of being sued over Java.

Dtrace for Linux already exists (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646510)

The conversation is interesting - but if people take a look at http://crtags.blogspot.com, you will find a port of Dtrace to Linux. Its a loadable driver - just compile, load, and run. (I would still rate it as beta, but it works for most things).

ZFS has been done (although I have not followed this project).

Re:Dtrace for Linux already exists (1)

GrumpyOldMan (140072) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647156)

I've used this ... it has been very helpul for development, but I would not run it on a production machine. In most cases when I've run it, it has managed to eventually crash the machine, usually just after obtaining the information I was after. For driver development, that is fine. But not for production.

Typical Stupid PHB Decision (1)

turgid (580780) | more than 2 years ago | (#37646584)

Yesterday (October 4, 2011) Oracle made the surprising announcement that they would be porting some key Solaris features, DTrace and Zones, to Oracle Enterprise Linux. As one of the original authors, the news about DTrace was particularly interesting to me, so I started digging. Even among Oracle employees, there's uncertainty about what was announced.

This sounds like a typical PHB decision: make a crazy choice without consulting the engineers as to whether it's a good idea, possible or even wanted, and could potentially threaten the existence of their existing products that have had blood sweated over them for 20 years, makes their continuing relevance to the company (and therefore employment prospects) seem very uncertain and replaces a technically-superior product with a less-able competitor.

Disclaimer: I don't work for Oracle. I know some Solaris people, and although Linux is great (it's what I do), Solaris still beats it in terms of things like high-end scalability. As we move to a massively multi-core, multi-cpu world, the Solaris kernel has a lot of advantages.

Maybe the PHBs don't care any more. Maybe they'd rather spend the effort on Linux. Who knows. It sounds like a bad time to work in the Solaris group at Oracle.

So, again, "good" is being replaced by "good enough." That's the commoditisation of technology. The invisible hand has spoken. That's life.

Why? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37646644)

SystemTap works already.

Point ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37647076)

Whats the point, there is systemtap already.

s/Linux/Oracle Enterprise Linux/ (1)

gtirloni (1531285) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647356)

I wouldn't expect this to see the light of kernel mainline ever, or at least not until Oracle stops selling their Enterprise Linux offering.

DTrace on Linux will probably be something like Ksplice where it's available only to paying customer (last I checked, correct me if I'm wrong).

Good thing this opens the doors within Oracle to consider migrating more of the Solaris features to Linux, even if it's only for OEL for the time being. Personally, while being a Solaris sysadmin, I'm not wasting my time on Solaris anymore and I certainly won't be bothering with Solaris 11 unless my employer shows the need. So far our next hardware refresh cycle is up for in 6 months and nobody bothered to ask Oracle for a quote. The word is that it's going to be Linux for everything.

Available since 2008 (2)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647542)

It has been available for Linux since 2008. 02-Aug-2008 Work in progress port of Sun's DTrace system for Linux. It is actively maintained. http://www.crisp.demon.co.uk/tools.html [demon.co.uk] I don't see anything new to the table outside of keyboard, mouse, and framebuffer recording. I'm not sure a lot of Linux users would find that an attractive addition.

Built-in instruments can track

        User events, such as keyboard keys pressed and mouse moves and clicks with exact time.
        CPU activity of processes and threads.
        Memory allocation and release, garbage collection and memory leaks.
        File reads, writes, locks.
        Network activity and traffic.
        Graphics and inner workings of OpenGL.

Did anyone else read "Oracle To Bring Disgrace..." (1)

dickens (31040) | more than 2 years ago | (#37647956)

Oracle To Bring Disgrace to Linux ? Just saying, is all.

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