Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Florida School District Begins Fingerprinting Students

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the mandatory-attendance-including-your-fingers dept.

Privacy 294

First time accepted submitter Boogaroo writes "The Washington County school district in Florida has placed fingerprint scanners at the entrance to Chipley High School. They've also made a decision to run an alternate trial by placing the scanners on buses since most kids in the district ride buses every day. Since the beginning the fingerprinting, attendance is up, but not everyone is in agreement that the costs and risks are worth the attendance boost." Aren't there simpler and less-creepy ways to count kids, like looking at empty desks?

cancel ×

294 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

It certainly is creepy (4, Insightful)

TheRealGrogan (1660825) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649076)

The nannying police state creeping into all aspect of people's lives. I would pull my kids out of any school that did that. I'd bet that "attendance" isn't the primary goal of this process.

I've worked with finger print scanners. They suck. (5, Insightful)

khasim (1285) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649166)

Wet fingers cause problems (rain, just washed your hands, etc).
Dirty fingers cause problems.
Dirty scanners cause problems.
Etc, etc, etc.

I'm thinking that this is just an excuse to spend money on "hi-tech" for the school district. Follow the money. Who's getting paid for it?

gummy bears can be used to cheat them as well (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649194)

on the bus to they even have 12V power / cigarette lighters sockets on buses ?

Re:gummy bears can be used to cheat them as well (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649304)

this is soooooooooooo stupid and there are like a gazillion privacy concerns with regards to this.

please call and voice against this to the super attendant

652 3rd Street
Chipley, FL 32428-1442
(850) 638-6222

Re:I've worked with finger print scanners. They su (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649306)

Who's getting paid for it?

The school is getting paid for it.
The amount of money that they get (state/federal whatever) is directly tied to head count.

Re:I've worked with finger print scanners. They su (2)

firex726 (1188453) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649566)

And that funding is based on who is enrolled, not who shows up for class each day.

Re:I've worked with finger print scanners. They su (4, Informative)

Rudolf (43885) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649602)

And that funding is based on who is enrolled, not who shows up for class each day.

Is that how it works in Florida? In other states, funding is based on Average Daily Attendance. If you have 5000 students "enrolled" but only half show up every day, you only get funded for 2500 students.

Obligatory Dilbert (2)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649874)

All hail those whose ancestors followed the example of Wally's ancestors [dilbert.com] .

Re:It certainly is creepy (3, Informative)

neo8750 (566137) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649260)

When i was little we lived in NJ. I was finger printed by the school as far as i knew it was state law there. given this was 20 some years ago. (Damn im getting old)

Re:It certainly is creepy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649458)

It is not state law. At least not when I attended. I was never finger printed. I went to NJ public schools from 1990-2003. In fact the only time they ever tried to finger print me I didn't participate. It was a dumb exercise or something or other and there was no grade attached. There was no tech and I'm 99.9995% confident none of it was saved. It was like for "fun" or something where they hung the stuff on the wall. Maybe a drug awareness thing. I don't really recall.

Re:It certainly is creepy (1)

Gideon Wells (1412675) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649484)

On one hand it attendance is the issue I can sympathize with their goals. On the other hand, I'm nervous that this desensitizes those kids to finger printing.

On my third non-existent hand, what would their primary goal be if you doubt their sincerity? Kick backs for buying these products? Not gathering fingerprints as my school, several times in the 80s and 90s, took my fingerprints with full blessings from the parents as part of "kidnap recovery" programs. Few parents said no to that.

And in Florida (1)

plopez (54068) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649618)

Where they're always sceaming about intrusive government and their rights. Go figure. More fascism for a fascist state.

I would pull my kids out of any school (2)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649704)

And go where? Eventually this will be mandated at private schools, and not everyone has the resources to home school.

Sadly, no (5, Funny)

lolcutusofbong (2041610) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649078)

Florida students have been hiring illegal Cuban body doubles for years now.

Re:Sadly, no (1)

Larryish (1215510) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649788)

This could be an attempt to keep drop-outs from sneaking in to sell various things to their friends.

My fingerprint is on every Slashdot article (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649084)

Because I always get FIRST POST!

Know thy students (5, Interesting)

burnit999 (1845596) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649088)

"Aren't there simpler and less-creepy ways to count kids, like looking at empty desks?" Are you suggesting that teachers should actually get to know the kids in their classes so that they can recognize when someone isn't there? How dare you. Think of the children. I suppose next you will be saying that it is ok for teachers to talk to students outside of class or even be friends on facebook! If we allow this sort of outrageous behavior our kids may have adult figures in their lives that are actually worth looking up to!

Re:Know thy students (2, Insightful)

SpiralSpirit (874918) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649200)

yes, blame this on teachers, not on the management that is making the decisions. good job, you've managed to blame someone with no say in this at all!

Re:Know thy students (2)

Nocturnal Deviant (974688) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649262)

somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed,. that was obviously a sarcastic post and you jump on him...calm the **** down kid.

Re:Know thy students (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649510)

You make me want a mouthful of (adult, legal age) titty...do you have a wife? Will she consent to giving me a mouthful of titty? Let's ask her.

Re:Know thy students (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649518)

wow, somebody misses the sarcasm and posts a critical reply, and you jump on him. calm the fuck down kid.

Re:Know thy students (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649860)

somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed,. that was obviously a sarcastic post and you jump on him...calm the **** down kid.

...or else we'll have to take your prints!!!

Re:Know thy students (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649628)

If it's too much for the teachers to take attendance at the beginning of class, maybe you should spend the money on more teachers? Besides, those things can be tricked pretty easily, with gummi bears.

Re:Know thy students (3, Insightful)

Fnord666 (889225) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649786)

yes, blame this on teachers, not on the management that is making the decisions. good job, you've managed to blame someone with no say in this at all!

Whooosh!!!

Re:Know thy students (0, Offtopic)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649246)

Jesus Christ. The teachers have nothing to do with this stupid bullshit. Clean the tea out of your brain.

Re:Know thy students (2)

PessimysticRaven (1864010) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649272)

yes, blame this on teachers, not on the management that is making the decisions. good job, you've managed to blame someone with no say in this at all!

Jesus Christ. The teachers have nothing to do with this stupid bullshit. Clean the tea out of your brain.!

Listen. I know sarcasm is really hard to understand from static text on the Internet... But, seriously, your Snark-O-Meter didn't twitch at all?...Neither of you? Huh..

Re:Know thy students (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649830)

did you even read the comment?

Re:Know thy students (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649362)

I'm a teacher at university, and my students are often amazed that I know their names. "Well, you're a student in my class, of course I know your name." Their mouths fall open in disbelief.

Re:Know thy students (1)

MagusSlurpy (592575) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649748)

That's because they're used to profs not knowing their names. Hell, I taught an inorganic chem lab this summer (16 students) where I didn't learn the names of 6 of the 7 guys in the class until about two weeks before the end of the semester, and that's with reviewing my photo roster each day before class. Unlike college girls, guys often seem to look and dress alike - buzzed sandy brown hair, Abercrombie shirts, cargo pants (I've had three black students and one Chinese student in the six semesters I've taught there). Maybe it's just the university I worked at, but I always had trouble telling the guys apart, and it wasn't just because they weren't as sexually interesting as the females.

Implant RFID chips (2)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649092)

Lets just go all out and fuck our society

Come on, think of the children! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649094)

If we don't use geometrics, we'll never get all the kids go to school. We should all possible means available to get them into school - finger prints, iris scans, facial recognition, penis length, vagina depth!

Ah yes (5, Insightful)

future assassin (639396) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649096)

Getting the new generation ready for "Papers please, Comrade" and "If you go nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about" society.

Re:Ah yes (1)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649286)

It's pretty sad that our kids are going to hear stories about how good things were back in our day. I'm not putting my kids into this kind of crap, no way. I'll home school them in the evenings after work if that's what it takes.

Re:Ah yes (1)

thehostiles (1659283) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649404)

Every generation gets to hear stories about how good things were

Heck, my parents got to walk to school in the cold! And if they misbehaved, they got hit with a ruler! They loved it!

But yeah, things will suck for the future kids. I may consider not having any just to spare them the misery.

Re:Ah yes (3, Insightful)

maxume (22995) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649338)

Society already accepts the use of law enforcement for the purposes of social engineering, there is no need for expensive measures like travel papers and universal tracking.

A good example is the use of societal resources against people found to be in possession of small amounts of unapproved substances. There is something really twisted about a societal barometer that judges the possession of a small amount of marijuana as a worse thing than detainment.

Re:Ah yes (2, Insightful)

Dutchmaan (442553) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649546)

I find your implication of communism a bit ironic considering that I'll bet you more than anything that it was a business man that made a deal with the school district to get his product sold, and not the school district seeking out a finger printing system to buy. People moan about the "nanny state" when I'm personally more concerned with business men using the state as the consumer and pulling strings to get their products shackled onto the public.

Re:Ah yes (1)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649588)

Don't you mean business women "using the state as the consumer and pulling strings to get their products shackled onto the public."?

For once... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649098)

I am SERIOUSLY glad I read the title correct this time.

Aw come on! Moaned CAPTCHA!

Intrusive, Probably Illegal, and a waste of Money (4, Insightful)

SpiralSpirit (874918) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649116)

Since when was it ok for government to force you to be fingerprinted if you haven't been charged with a crime, joined the military or police, or work in some other high security facility?

Re:Intrusive, Probably Illegal, and a waste of Mon (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649148)

Since when was it ok for government to force you to be fingerprinted if you haven't been charged with a crime, joined the military or police, or work in some other high security facility?

Ever since schools became high security facilities, of course.

Re:Intrusive, Probably Illegal, and a waste of Mon (1)

denbesten (63853) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649278)

TFA States "Parents can still opt for their children to sign in the traditional way.". In other words, the kids are not being "forced".

Re:Intrusive, Probably Illegal, and a waste of Mon (3, Insightful)

SpiralSpirit (874918) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649328)

...yet. These sort of things ARE slippery slopes. It's definitely an overly intrusive way of taking attendance.

Re:Intrusive, Probably Illegal, and a waste of Mon (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649354)

Look at johny, he always has to sign in instead of a fingerprint, he must have a disease, and he signs to protect us. and then bullying begins. Alternative outcomes get worse if the parent opts out for their child. Anything different can be enough to be detrimental.

Re:Intrusive, Probably Illegal, and a waste of Mon (2)

Shoe Puppet (1557239) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649356)

Worthless, if it's not the children who get to make the choice.

Re:Intrusive, Probably Illegal, and a waste of Mon (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649578)

And the TSA states "People can opt-out from body scanners".
Except that people who opted-out got the sexual-assault 'enhanced' pat-down.

Have you learned nothing from what went on in airports?
I don't even see what are the benefits that parents can get from making their child opt for the finger-print attendance check. The normal attendance check can be flawed (a teacher might mark your kid as present when he wasn't in class, or the teacher might even not bother to check attendance most of the time) but unless your kid has a habit of missing school everyday you have nothing to worry about. And there no more than 1 kid like that per class.
So think of the case of the TSA body scanners and remember this: these schools don't spend tons of money on finger-print scanners just to have 10% of the students use them. They most likely will find a way to discourage opting-out. And whatever way they find to discourage opting-out, it won't be pleasant and it will be unfair. Kids and parents will be coerced to use the finger-print scanners, don't doubt it.

Re:Intrusive, Probably Illegal, and a waste of Mon (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649322)

Schools are high security facilities now, haven't you heard? Some schools have better security than many prisons, and that attitude is only spreading. Bars on doors and windows, metal detectors, locker searches, I think some schools will even have strip searches on occasion (I remember hearing about just such a story on /. a while back).

Re:Intrusive, Probably Illegal, and a waste of Mon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649794)

Somewhere along the way, the schools have been granted an exception to constitutional rights. I'm specifically thinking about the illegal search and seizures that are commonplace in schools and have been upheld by courts.

Re:Intrusive, Probably Illegal, and a waste of Mon (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649806)

If you want a Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm License you have to submit fingerprints.

If you want to put anything into a Florida pawn shop you have to give a thumb print on the contract and show photo ID

If you want to cash a check drawn on a bank you don't have an account with, you have to put your thumb print on the check, show photo ID, and pay a fee.

Re:Intrusive, Probably Illegal, and a waste of Mon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649826)

Probably??

Are we now so far, that even the people who are against raping the constitution have become unsure about the illegality of a full-scale 1984-style system?

And who gives a fuck about the laws anymore nowadays? They're not really related to the (way more important) values of a working human society anymore anyway. Instead they have become crimes themselves, harming most for the benefits of a few.
Good people know by themselves, that is is a crime. (And by the reaction on Slashdot, you can see that most people still are good.)

Battle Royale (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649118)

It's where this is headed.

Rollcall (2)

mehrotra.akash (1539473) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649134)

What happened to the good (not so old) rollcall

Re:Rollcall (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649232)

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition.

Re:Rollcall (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649292)

It takes time. There's a good argument for wanting to get rid of it, because it can waste 5 minutes at the start of a lesson. My school only did them first thing in the morning and after lunch, not sure if American schools do them more or less frequently, but that's still ten minutes of the school day wasted. It always seemed a bit pointless to me, because if you wanted to skip school you could go to those two lessons, skip everything else, and still appear on the register. I can see why you'd want to save this time, but I'm not convinced that teaching students that it's okay to be monitored that closely is a good idea.

Re:Rollcall (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649320)

Utter crap. A teacher can check off pupils as they arrive. It's not rocket science, muppet.

Re:Rollcall (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649608)

A teacher can check off pupils as they arrive.

Or in the middle of the lessons when the pupils is working on their math problems or whatever.

Re:Rollcall (1)

Rob the Bold (788862) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649568)

It takes time. There's a good argument for wanting to get rid of it, because it can waste 5 minutes at the start of a lesson.

I don't remember the process taking 5 minutes ever, not even the first week of class when teachers often did an actual roll call while they learned the kids' names. Maybe you had larger classes, mine were usually around 30 kids but often less and a missing kid was noted pretty quickly. Teachers without that mental gift would do a quick head count or put the students in assigned seats and keep the attendance log sorted by seating order.

Bring back truant officers (2)

PPH (736903) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649150)

Patrol the shopping malls during the school day. Nab all the 15 year old girls who ditch class and hang out at Starbucks with their 27 year old mullet-wearing, TransAm driving boyfriends. Crack down on the 'homeschooling' moms who ditch their kids and hang out at the cocktail lounge all afternoon.

I hope you are joking (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649344)

In my country some towns do this. Policemen patrol the city, identify every young person, then contact their school to check if they have a class at the time. If they do, the policemen take them to the station, and their parents have to come for them. The same happens if the kid can't identify themselves, wich is really absurd because here you are not required to carry an ID 18, and you can't even get one 16.

Re:I hope you are joking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649422)

Why would someone over 18 need to carry ID anyways?

Re:I hope you are joking (2)

Rob the Bold (788862) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649572)

Why would someone over 18 need to carry ID anyways?

So they can vote!

Re:Bring back truant officers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649766)

Don't you mock Ke$ha! you take it back now!

Wellllll (4, Insightful)

cmv1087 (2426970) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649156)

We already have cops in high schools, given the principals the authority to ruin the lives of high school students on the slightest whimsy, and eroded (if not destroyed outright) any suspicion that these students nearing adulthood actually have any rights while ensuring the parents have no actual responsibility for their child's eventual success or failure.

I will point that there have been pushes to fingerprint kids in schools all over the nation for years now. Fingerprint scanners are a natural combination of this and the above. Schools are prisons and daycares now. Who needs education? Just give them a pass if they can spell their name and move on.

Re:Wellllll (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649534)

" suspicion that these students nearing adulthood actually have any rights while ensuring the parents have no actual responsibility for their child's eventual success or failure."

The issues are way more complex then you're painting it. The whole idea that a childs scholastic failure is the result of the parents has a whole tonne of social assumptions and expectations built into it as well as ideology, socioeconomic model. Not to mention the general douchebaggish nature of the human race generally speaking.

Let us not forget that for most of human history most human beings were intelligent enough to survive on planet earth, it takes a capitalist society though to take that away from them to serve a wage caste society in which they have to sell their labor and try to increase the value of their labor through school to survive because - they don't have any say in the system. With scientific and technological advancements changing the labor landscape and reducing the value of human labor we have an abundant surplus population with no model of how to deal with them all. So parents and people like yourself keep chugging along with the societies dominant ideology as if nothing fundamental had changed about the nature of human work with regards to scientific and technological advancement. Sooner or later we're going to have to deal with them regardless of your political stripe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Work [wikipedia.org]

There are huge changes the world is going through right now economically and socially and a good portion of people are still stuck in old habits of thinking and looking at the world according to how they were raised.

Warts for everyone! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649180)

This is ridiculously unsanitary. Kids are gross, get nasty little bugs and infections. Now everyone in the school can share the same germs too. lol... just give them gps ankle bracelets like when you're on home arrest already.

Re:Warts for everyone! (1)

mcavic (2007672) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649400)

Yeah, because without the fingerprint scanners, you'd never touch anything inside the school. Or breathe.

Valid point, but a minor one, I think.

but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649186)

but its for the children!!!

The way we did it.... (1)

Eunuchswear (210685) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649202)

Teacher: Eunuchswear Major?
Student: Present, sir.

Teacher: Eunuchswear Minor?
Student: Present, sir.

Teacher: Enunchswear Minimus?
Other student: Dead, sir.

Then we had sex ed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTMlZSKEu-Y&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dmonty%2Bpython%2Bsex%2Bed%2Bsketch%26ie%3Dutf-8%26oe%3Dutf-8%26aq%3Dt%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial%26client%3Diceweasel-a [youtube.com]

Re:The way we did it.... (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649308)

Very appropriate, linking to a video that I can't watch watch unless I opt in to Google's tracking...

freaky (2)

GNUman (155139) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649210)

Good work freaking out the rest of the world, keep it up. Go USA.

Re:freaky (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649266)

I feel duty-bound to point out, the US is a wee bit behind on this..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jun/09/schools-surveillance-spying-on-pupils
http://www.vericool.co.uk/index.html
etc etc etc...
Just Google fingerprinting +schools + britain

Y'know I bet you Orwell didn't realise he was writing a feckin 'How to' book...

Re:freaky (1)

mvar (1386987) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649386)

Don't worry the US are the testbed for such stuff. The UK will adopt it if it hasn't already and then the rest of the EU

Not just the US... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649402)

About two years ago my county [equivalent to] here in Sweden wanted to introduce finger print readers to dispense lunch plates! Apparently it was a big problem that unauthorized persons had lunch in [the wrong] schools. (Why anyone would voluntarily eat in our schools is puzzling though...)

Eventually it didn't happen.http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/10/08/1824223/florida-school-district-begins-fingerprinting-students#

Re:freaky (1)

Rob the Bold (788862) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649582)

Good work freaking out the rest of the world, keep it up. Go USA.

Don't generalize too much, school districts here are pretty autonomous. Even within a single state you'll find a wide variety of practices and policies.

yay art class (1)

llamapater (1542875) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649224)

what stops a kid from making a mold from their finger :P

How about ways to count kids that isn't illegal? (4, Interesting)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649226)

The US Supreme Court has found on at least two [justia.com] occasions [justia.com] that collecting fingerprints constitutes a search, and that the government must therefor produce probable cause before being allowed to do so.

Especially when you consider that for kids under the age of 16, attendance at High School is required by law, they are now in the ridiculous position of requiring a search without probable cause for failing to break the law.

Re:How about ways to count kids that isn't illegal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649248)

Except the parents (and I would assume any student 18 or older) have the right to opt-out of this. Thus it is not truly mandatory and thus it is not illegal.

Re:How about ways to count kids that isn't illegal (5, Insightful)

SpiralSpirit (874918) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649398)

...yet. This is the way it works - first you make it optional, then you take away the infrastructure to support any other option, then you make it mandatory claiming the other way costs too much or can't be supported anymore.

Either take the enhanced search, or go through the x-ray machine whose radiation dosage is unpublished. Good good, now be on your way citizen.

Re:How about ways to count kids that isn't illegal (1)

sco08y (615665) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649488)

Neither of those held that a fingerprint is a search. They concluded that it is evidence based on "the fruit of the poisoned tree." Any evidence that is brought to light, whether it is testimony, physical evidence or otherwise, that only comes to light because of an illegal action by the police can be classified as such.

(Personally, I think it's a stupid doctrine. The person should be guilty based on the evidence, but the individuals involved in the illegal conduct should then liable to that person or their family for damages equivalent to the additional sentence imposed as a result of it.)

Re:How about ways to count kids that isn't illegal (1)

timothyf (615594) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649696)

If the search was conducted illegally, how can you trust the evidence not to have been tampered with?

Re:How about ways to count kids that isn't illegal (1)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649698)

So an illegal search which results in a murder conviction and lethal injection. What damages are you proposing the searcher pays? Do we need anohter court case with a jury deciding if just how much difference that search made? I predict no jury ever convicts anyone for it and the police trample rights even more than they do now.

The doctrine is fine as it is. The cost of letting a guilty person go free is far far lower than the poice ignoring the rights of the people. Said guilty person can still be convicted of any future crimes they commit anyway.

Re:How about ways to count kids that isn't illegal (1)

dragonsomnolent (978815) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649706)

An interesting thought, about the illegal search thing, but I think the reasons used in US Law for dispensing with any evidence 'from a poisoned tree' so to speak has more to do with uncertainty about the validity of said evidence. Not to say the evidence will be tainted or invalid, but that if the officer could not be arsed to follow the book to obtain the evidence in the first place, the chain of evidence is tainted from the onset. Better to let 100 guilty men go free type of thing.

Re:How about ways to count kids that isn't illegal (1)

RobinEggs (1453925) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649722)

Personally, I think it's a stupid doctrine. The person should be guilty based on the evidence, but the individuals involved in the illegal conduct should then liable to that person or their family for damages equivalent to the additional sentence imposed as a result of it.

How would this work in murder cases? The guy still goes to death row, and the infringing police are liable for the value of the man's life? You're talking about indentured servitude for cops who screw up; even the value of time in prison often comes to at least $10,000/year when it's calculated in cases of wrongful imprisonment.

Plus not all poisoned evidence comes about from clear-cut police misconduct. It seems semi-common to hear of searches being overturned in court based on simple mistakes that made them technically illegal when they were nevertheless performed entirely in good faith. It would just be another legal and financial minefield added on top of the existing ones.

Re:How about ways to count kids that isn't illegal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649726)

Not really that stupid.
If you tell cops that illegally acquired evidence is admissible but they'll be punished for it, some of them will get the evidence even at the expense of punishment.
Their sacrifice is admirable, but this will only result in the best cops being removed from the police force. On top of that, it makes officers face a very difficult moral dilemma in which any choice they make will harm them (e.g. either they illegally get evidence against a murderer and ruin their career (and put their family through tough economical hardship in the process) or they let a murderer go free - no good person would like to face that dilemma). As a comparison, psychiatrists and even lawyers, who normally can't reveal anything about their patients/clients, are legally obligated to report future crimes their patient/client intends to commit. This isn't just for the public's safety, but also to protect psychiatrists and lawyers from facing strong moral dilemmas.
And also, mistakes happen. Cops sometimes break protocol without realizing it, which results in evidence being compromised. With your system, cops would frequently get punished for honest mistakes. It can happen much more easily than you think. For example, if a cop kicks a suspect's bag while arresting a suspect, and a gun falls out of the bag, is that a legal or an illegal search? If cops search the wrong apartment because the number plate on the door was damaged and that 8 looked like a 9, should they be punished? What if they arrest the wrong person because they had the wrong description? You might tell me that in such cases, cops should be let off the hook but the evidence still be admissible, however in such a case the police have plenty of room to abuse their authority and gather evidence illegally while passing it off as mistakes.

How about improving schools? (1)

ludwigf (1208730) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649264)

If schools would be a little bit more fun, if you actually learn something or maybe even learn something you're interested in the pupils might consider coming to school by choice.

A school has no right to fingerprint (3, Insightful)

Hentes (2461350) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649284)

I'm not sure a school can legally take a fingerprint from a kid even the police can only do so if the person in question has committed a crime. Also, what about the kids who don't use the schoolbus?

Re:A school has no right to fingerprint (1)

mcavic (2007672) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649446)

We were fingerprinted in early elementary school, but it was clearly stated that the prints would never be used for anything other than missing persons. I seem to remember that police officers came to the school to do it, but I'm not sure about that.

While it seems excessive, I don't see much of a problem with this if you can guarantee that it's only used for attendance. Of course, considering today's technology, it's very hard to make that guarantee.

Ah Florida (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649288)

Whenever I hear a story that's crazy or just plain stupid, it typically takes place in Florida.

Re:Ah Florida (1)

mcavic (2007672) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649412)

Or Germany, as the story goes.

Re:Ah Florida (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649474)

Whenever I hear a story that's crazy or just plain stupid, it typically takes place in Florida.

Or Germany, as the story goes.

Hmm... the current governor of Florida is Rick Scott. Maybe if you trace his family tree back a bit, you'd find the name was originally "Schott"?

Start from the berth (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649290)

Makes sense, indoctrinate them from the early years.
Damn, you would make proud the Stasi, the NKVD, the KGB, the Securitate and every other past or present "security state" institutions.

get their minds while they're young (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37649298)

Then they'll be good little consumer citizens when they're older.

easier (1)

Dark Lord of Ohio (2459854) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649382)

wouldn't be easier for that school to implant some chips or make friends on facebook?

Sheeple (3, Insightful)

p51d007 (656414) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649424)

People don't get it yet. They know good & well that ADULTS will balk at anything like this, as they have demonstrated during the last election. We don't want government telling us what to do, so, they enact their silly little socialist utopian ideas in the schools. Think about it. Starting with your first day of kindergarten, they have the children place their OWN school supplies in a box...a "community" box, that everyone can share, because some may not have those bla bla bla bla. Then, it's off to the cafeteria, where in some schools, you are prohibited from bringing certain snack items to school, which will be taken away because they "aren't good for you". Then, in one school, instead of parent-teachers meetings being held at the school, they want the teachers to come to your house to see how your kids act in their home environment. The fingerprinting, is done for "safety". Don't you sheep get it? They know that by the time these brainless kids are adults, they will be conditioned to accepting searches, eating "the right foods" and on and on. Listen to what the commies said when they started the whole stupid idea...“Give me just one generation of youth, and I'll transform the whole world.” Vladimir Lenin Get em while they are young, and you can have them forever Adolph Hitler pretty much said the same thing. Give me the youth of Germany, and I can rule the world. He almost got away with that! Thankfully, he was a complete moron. Wake up people...before it is too late! Around 50% of the USA gets "free stuff" from the government. When more than 50% realize they can vote to make the rest of those pay for their "free" lifestyle, this country is history.

the are of teaching for dummies (1)

glebovitz (202712) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649428)

Unfortunately, the guy who came up with this idea isn't the dimmest light bulb in the pack.

Wate of money (4, Insightful)

mustangdavis (583344) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649472)

As our nation's schools "cry poor", this school district has the NERVE to waste money on a system like this? A classic case of TERRIBLE administrators, and people not wanting to be accountable. Get this ... we PAY teachers, administrators and bus drivers to keep track of the kids. Why do we even need this? The only think this school is teaching with this system is only good for criminals ... and that is how to be finger printed. Is that the kind of future we want for our kids???

Consequences. (1)

aleckais (1457189) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649476)

Being a constitutional dictatorship since 1787, these are but empirical findings supporting a formal proof.

What a joke (2)

LoRdTAW (99712) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649498)

So finger print scanners are increasing attendance? I call bullshit. When I was in high school 13+ years ago they had this thing called attendance. Each teacher would check to see if we were in class. So once that data was compiled at the end of the day by the attendance office, it was known if you skipped a class, skipped out after half a day or the entire day. And the next day you could expect the home room teacher to send you directly to the deans office as they would be notified in the morning.

The funny thing was during my first year we had a school ID card with a bar code. It was pretty high tech for 1994 and the scanner had a slot you stuck your card into, kind of like an ATM machine. It had an LCD screen and three lights on top. If you cut class or skipped out for a day or committed any other offence to the school, the scanner would lock your card, sound an alarm and the read light would flash. School staff who monitored the clock in process would then escort those red flagged students to the deans office.

During my second year the scanners were gone. No one told us what happened but my shop teacher in senior year did. He said during the summer of 94 there were contractors working on the school and sometime during the summer the machines were stolen. They couldn't prove who did it and they couldn't convince the board of Ed to fund replacements. So after that we went back to old fashioned paper and pencil attendance which worked just as well.

And in all seriousness the school cant force kids to go. I knew plenty of kids who didn't give a shit about school and would take entire weeks or months off. They failed and either kept going and skipping class or just dropped out. If the kids don't give a shit, no fancy bio-metric scanner will make them go to class. Their parents didn't care either and probably saw the school as a free baby sitting service. The stupidity of schools never ceases to amaze me.

Shocking (2)

formfeed (703859) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649624)

I was completely unaware of the fact that Florida had residents under the age of 65.

They have children, too? - That means, that somewhere in Florida they also would have to have women under the age of 45-50.

New generation... (1)

marcroelofs (797176) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649672)

if anything it will create a new generation of even better hackers.

Not Fingerprints (1)

jklovanc (1603149) | more than 2 years ago | (#37649802)

Finger scanners used by private industry are not the same as the the scanners used by police. The police scanner takes an exact picture of the fingerprint and sends it through a system which compares it with national databases. Commercial scanners do not store an exact fingerprint and therefore are not valid for identifying a person in a court of law. They take a scan of the finger and use an algorithm to reduce it to a hash. This hash is then compared with the database of other hashes to find a match. For the limited number of people who are in a school database one can be reasonably sure the the match is correct. Any duplicates are handles at registration time. It is not valid to try to match the millions in a national database. Also different companies and different versions of the same hardware that use different algorithms and can no even be compared with each other. So this is not an illegal search.

Here are my issues with some of the other comments about this system;
I doesn't always work; Dirt, water, etc interferes with the scan.
By this logic we shouldn't use computers because the power may go out. That is why one always has a backup like signing a register like they do now. To throw out a system that works 90% of the time is stupid.

Counting desks/taking attendance;
Takes time to do it. Some students may be ill so would have to check with the office. Is slow to get results. Increases paperwork when truancy officers are involved.

Nanny state.
Truancy is still a crime in the US and punishable by fines. This helps track truancy.

Here is the procedure most schools, especially elementary and middle schools, have to go through to ensure students are where they should be.
1. Take attendance
2. Compare with the list of parents who have called in to say their child will not be there
3. Call parents who's child is not there to confirm.
It is a safety issue in case the student has been kidnapped or lost. Manually, steps 1 and 2 could take a couple of hours. A computer could do it in seconds if the data was entered correctly. That time difference could mean a child's life. Finger scanners are a simple way to do this. Sorry but getting a kid to correctly punch their number into a pad is a non-starter; kids will do it wrong too many times. The scanners are also a cost saver in that a person does not have to punch all that information into a computer and the person punching the information may make mistakes. Another thing this can be used for is to automatically inform a child's truancy officer when the child is not at school.

All finger scanners are is an alternative to signing in on a piece of paper.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>