Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

338 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Amazon did it (1)

jader3rd (2222716) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656270)

I think Amazon pulled it off with the $200 Fire.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656280)

Yeah but they're selling at a loss, and relying on their market and web-thingy to get them money.

Re:Amazon did it (1, Insightful)

chill (34294) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656306)

Whereas Apple is relying on their lock-in to the "we get a cut of the action, see" iTunes store. It is a tried and true method. For further reference, see cell phones and how they are subsidized by carriers.

And Amazon is selling the Fire at a loss of what, $10?

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656380)

Only the iPad's not sold at a loss.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656866)

Considering Apple's 70+ billion dollar CASH reserve, it's not sold anywhere near a loss. They could probably manufacture it in the US and still make a profit. But of course people love them because they outsourced everything to China to make even more profit. Greed is good.

Re:Amazon did it (5, Insightful)

TheGreek (2403) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656390)

Whereas Apple is relying on their lock-in to the "we get a cut of the action, see" iTunes store. It is a tried and true method.

Except iOS devices aren't loss leaders for Apple. Apple makes a negligible amount of profit off of its App Store. The bulk of Apple's profit comes from every device that goes out the door—whether it's paid for by you or by a combination of you and your mobile carrier.

Re:Amazon did it (4, Informative)

Dzimas (547818) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657048)

The bulk of Apple's profit comes from every device that goes out the door—whether it's paid for by you or by a combination of you and your mobile carrier.

Don't worry, you pay 100% the cost of your iPhone. Your mobile carrier is nice enough to loan you the bulk of the purchase price and then extract it from you over the course of a 2-year contract, at an unspecified interest rate. It's similar to loan sharking, except there's no disclosure. :)

Re:Amazon did it (4, Informative)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656486)

1) iPad most definitely *not* sold at a loss - nowhere close.

2) iTunes Store/App Store run at very minimal profit. It is over break even, but not by much.

*sources, Apple's officially filed financial statements, every year since the launch of the iTunes Store.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656546)

If you believe the iPad isn't sold at a loss, then I have a bridge to sell you.

iTunes store lock-in on applications, music, videos, AND in-app purchases. skimming off the top of developers who PAY to develop for the platform, applications for pay that are free on Android.

I'm sorry, but if you truly believe Apple don't make the majority of their profit from what they market as the sideline activities then there's no hope for you, you're already so drunk on the kool-aid all reason has left you.

If the iPad hardware could be produced for less than $500 then everybody would be making iPad competitors for sub-$500, probably for sub-$400. They're propping up one business arm with another, and that stinks of a monopoly.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656636)

hahah actually it is you who has lost it. Apple controls everything that is put in to the ipad from top to bottom. The display, the chip, everything. If you think that that is something that Apple's competitors can compete with you are the one that is drinking the kool-aid.

Their devices are priced just pretentious enough so that all the middle class Apploadians can buy it and feel like the upper class. That being said they do also make good hardware but they know it. They are like the hot girl that knows she is hot.

Re:Amazon did it (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656638)

If you believe the iPad isn't sold at a loss, then I have a bridge to sell you.

If you believe it is sold at a lost you would be an idiot. Here are some facts.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/07/19Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html

From q2 2011 to q3 2011 Apples revenue decreased in the App Store, iTunes Stores. Yet their profit increased from q2 to q3. Now how can it be that they had decreased revenue and increased profit if they according to you make the bulk of their profit off these ventures and not the hardware which had increases in revenue?

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656872)

And if you ask the playground bully their version of the story, do you think they'll tell the truth? Going to Apple for facts about Apple is like referring to the Bible about why the Bible is the word of god.

Just-so stories just aren't good enough. Sorry.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37657026)

And if you ask the playground bully their version of the story, do you think they'll tell the truth?

Yes when they present factual evidence that they are telling the truth and the other person has hasn't produced any factual evidence what so ever.

You are the kind of person that believes in the healing powers of magnets. And since I pulled that claim out of my ass, by your logic it must be true.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656642)

If you believe they are not truthful in their 10K report you should report them to the feds, they will bring criminal charges to the accountants and CEO who signed it.

Re:Amazon did it (1)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656880)

I'll buy that bridge, since you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Go and have a look at Apple's published financial statements. I'll wait.

(oh, and if you think they're falsifying them, report them)

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37657054)

skimming off the top of developers who PAY to develop for the platform, applications for pay that are free on Android.

So it sounds like you don't realize that

1) all of the 'official' app stores take a cut of the sales price, including Google, Amazon, and Microsoft

2) developers set the price of their apps, not Apple. If an app is free in the Android Market but costs in iTunes (which would be extremely rare and I think you're confusing the fact that many apps have both paid and free versions), then it's because the developer decided to price it that way.

Re:Amazon did it (1)

ThorGod (456163) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657030)

Yep, this agrees with their emphasis on being a "hardware company". They don't sell their software separately from their hardware, because it's the hardware they want you to buy. (Though they also do media. But, as you point out, to a lesser extent.) So, you had better expect them to sell hardware at a profit.

In a sense, they're kind of doing what the tech giants of old used to do (IBM, Cray, Sun, SGI, etc). It makes sense because they've been around since then. It also makes sense that all these internet users complain. They're used to piecing computers together and paying nearly nothing for media (OS, software, entertainment).

A remark on them being a hardware company: They offer very good hardware solutions, if you treat them as hardware solutions. I just had the entire keyboard/trackpad portion of my laptop replaced, free of charge (at Apple's expense), because of a program (settlement) they have running.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

headhot (137860) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656356)

So is Apple. They make up for it with the app store and itunes.

Re:Amazon did it (1)

dingen (958134) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656444)

You couldn't be more wrong. Apple isn't selling iPads at a loss at all and the iTunes Store sales barely make up 1% of Apple's total profits.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656384)

bunk, proven that it costs them $130 to make.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656430)

And if any company has the ability to create their own app store Amazon can pull it off. I'm sure they are smart enough to make a profit.

Do we *know* that? (1)

Junta (36770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656682)

All we have to go on is one analyst's guess at component cost, and that guess is 5% more than price. I've been involved with projects of significant scale and without being a party to the whole situation, you cannot accurately assess the negotiated prices of all the components. The figure I saw quoted was 209.63, and I would not be surprised to find that Amazon had shaved 5% to sell at cost and make profit off the advertising (199 is the ad-subsidized price).

Re:Amazon did it (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657114)

Yeah but they're selling at a loss...

I don't believe that for a second. HP may have sold theirs at a slight loss, but not by much. 500 bucks is a total scam. When they get down to 150 or so, the market will be there.

Like that old joke:

A kangaroo walks into a bar and orders a drink. Bartender tells him, "That'll be 10 dollars.... "Say, we never had a talking kangaroo in here before." Kangaroo says, " Yeah, and at these prices, you won't see any more."

Re: Amazon did it (2)

s.o.terica (155591) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656344)

Less than half the screen size, half the memory, and a subsidized price tag makes that easier for them.

Re: Amazon did it (1)

jader3rd (2222716) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657010)

True, but just like how an iPad is focused on certain tasks and doesn't do everything a laptop can do, the Kindle Fire is an even greater subset of that. So if what you would want from an iPad gets satisfied by a Fire you'll buy a Fire instead of an iPad.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656370)

Lets not jump the gun here. Wait to see if they actually sell any first.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656548)

They've already sold tons through pre sales.

Re:Amazon did it (1)

prostoalex (308614) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656442)

That is 7". The competition there is Dell Streak, not iPad.

10" Tablets are Market-transforming; 7" are Niche (2)

billstewart (78916) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656608)

Kindle-like devices are market-transforming for the eBook market, but from the standpoint of the computer market, they're basically a niche player. 10" tablets are big enough to replace many uses of a laptop or desktop computer and handle the equivalent of a full sheet of paper, so they're not just supporting niche applications like Angry Birds or phone-sized mini-browsers, they're enough to do full-sized web browsing. Maybe a 7" tablet can steal part of that market at half the price, but I'm skeptical.

Re:10" Tablets are Market-transforming; 7" are Nic (2, Interesting)

Junta (36770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656720)

Conversely, I'm skeptical on 10" tablets (actually, I'm skeptical about the whole market, but 10" in particular). After using an iPad2, that thing is monstrously heavy, and I could find no comfortable way to hold it. Sure, you can put it up on a stand, but once it's that awkward, a laptop would serve just as well. I could imagine 7" being a bit more manageable.

Re:Amazon did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656760)

That's because Amazon did 2 things:

1) They didn't try to compete with the iPad on specs AND price. If you compare the two in terms of pure hardware specs, the Kindle isn't packing the same horsepower the iPad is (smaller screen/resolution, slightly shorter battery life, no camera, etc). However, it still appears as though it's going to be a very capable tablet and at a much lower price point. They didn't try to take the same route that Samsung/Motorola did and make a comparable tablet and then find that they can't compete on price, nor did they try to just cobble together some cheap hardware and slap on Android so that they can say "hey we made a cheap tablet" like other companies have done.

2) This is a "I don't have the facts to back this up" kind of cop-out, but it appears as though Amazon is going to sell this thing at an overall loss, like what some console makers do. It's being treated as a platform for their already-established services of apps/books/music/video/etc which they can make their money off of.

I doubt this thing will be an iPad killer, but it will certainly eat into the market some, for those that desire a tablet cheaper than the iPad, that doesn't suck ass.

Re:Amazon did it (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656786)

The Fire is not direct competition to the iPad. Nor did Amazon intend it to be.

Re:Amazon did it (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657082)

Just like Wii isnt 'direct' competition for the 360 or PS3, but there is a HUGE overlap.

Because people don't need them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656302)

Apple fanboys are not like ordinary people. Most people don't need and don't really want a tablet. It's as simple as that. They only buy one as an additional gimmick if it's dirt cheap, around USD $200 seems to be the sweet spot.

Personally, I'd buy a tablet with a 10 inch b/w screen for $99 as long as it has long battery life and the screen is readable under sunlight. Oh, and it must run Linux, of course.

Re:Because people don't need them (1)

kanguro (1237830) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656398)

Most people don't need and don't really want a tablet. It's as simple as that.

That is completely true. Most people don't want a tablet. Most people want an Ipad.

Re:Because people don't need them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656648)

Most people don't need and don't really want a tablet. It's as simple as that.

That is completely true. Most people don't want a tablet. Most people want an Ipad.

Most people have no idea what they want.
Most of time they are bamboozled by family members, or aquaintances to buy an Imac/Ipod etc... BECAUSE IT JUST WORKS (except in the case when it obviously doesn't but nobody ever says this).
Its as if the rest of the industry puts out products that don't work and that is not true at all.
Listening to an apple user/fan is like listening to a priest doing proselytism.

Re:Because people don't need them (1)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657012)

Most people don't need and don't really want a tablet. It's as simple as that.

That is completely true. Most people don't want a tablet. Most people want an Ipad.

Most people have no idea what they want. Most of time they are bamboozled by family members, or aquaintances to buy an Imac/Ipod etc... BECAUSE IT JUST WORKS (except in the case when it obviously doesn't but nobody ever says this). Its as if the rest of the industry puts out products that don't work and that is not true at all. Listening to an apple user/fan is like listening to a priest doing proselytism.

I agree completely. The relationship between the fanboys and their products is creepy. I do like asking them questions about their computer, because the answers they give are awesome. I've found that many of the ones who claim to be power users don't even know what duel booting is, or even how to access their command line.

Re:Because people don't need them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656532)

Can't say if ordinary people need a tablet, but those adverts that show a bunch of "apps", doing stuff that I either couldn't give less of a shit about, or can wait till I get to real computer.

For why people are buying them, I'm going to go with toy and petty status symbol.

That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exist (3, Interesting)

kikito (971480) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656330)

There has never been an "tablet market". There is an "ipad market" now. It didn't exist when Apple initially launched the iPad, but they managed to "open the market" (clearly that legion of loyal fans had a role on that).

The rest of the vendors don't have that critical mass of early adopters, and/or their product isn't as good (or perceived as good) as the iPad.

The people who can afford them, pick iPads, or nothing at all. The rest of us have higher priorities than buying second-class tablets.

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (1)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656368)

This is changing. Tablets are finding a place in business especially in places where portability has value and you don't want or need the power of a full laptop implementation.

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656452)

Macbook Air 11"

It's just as portable. No sane person chooses a tablet instead.

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656540)

If by just as portable you meant in no way just as portable.

You cannot used a laptop of any kine efficiently standing up. Laptops need to be resting on a surface. You cannot use a laptop when there is no surface to place it on.

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (2)

rjames13 (1178191) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656544)

Have you ever considered that there are jobs out there where you don't sit behind a desk?

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656596)

Considered it? He probably can't even imagine it.

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656766)

Are you going to talk about `post pc` now, or how the iPad will make PCs redundant?

Statisically, no-one uses tablets - more PCs are sold every minute than tablets sell in a month. Tablets are this year's netbook.

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (1)

rjames13 (1178191) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656884)

Your post makes no sense in relation to what I said.

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (1)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657046)

You misunderstand how much more portable a tablet is compared to any traditional laptop, regardless of the format. The iPad goes from off to on in a few seconds. You can run presentations off of it for hours without a power source. For pure consumption of media or as a fancy drive that plugs into the projector, nothing beats the iPad. Nothing. And that's why businesses are adopting the iPad far faster than any iPhone.

We've tried business-market tablets before (1)

billstewart (78916) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656640)

Sure, they've been around a while, and we had various attempts at getting the pen-based computing market going since at least the early 90s. But they're typically tied up into an integrated vertical business model of applications, and never get the economies of scale it takes to be a mass-market product, and typically cost significantly more than a notebook computer. That's ok if you're Fedex making your drivers more efficient, but it's still really a niche market.

On the other hand, taking an iPad or competitor and adding a "fill out the forms" app? Easy.

Re:We've tried business-market tablets before (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656820)

I've got a pen-based tablet. Not really worth the trouble UNLESS you have an app that takes full advantage. The pen is just not as easy to use as the finger, and having something in both your hands doesn't enhance portability.

Now the tablets out now are clever, but the apps they show off are largely intended for tasks that don't rely on a keyboard. Lots of them, but data entry isn't one, and business apps that don't need data entry are limited.

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (2)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656446)

I'm never sure what to make of a statement like this. Are there people outside of insane asylums who think that Apple has some sort of a lock on any market?

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (1)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656484)

Well, I wouldn't know, it's been so long since we've been outside the asylum, hasn't it, Bats? WAHOOOHOOOHAHAHAH!

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (2)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656458)

Other vendors are pushing products that are feature complete, but not design complete. You can't sell high end stuff in the same way as you sell low end stuff. For end stuff you need attention to detail and a presentation that reassures people it is not some random cheap product sold at a higher margin.

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (2, Insightful)

bky1701 (979071) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656490)

Or, they could just apply absurd levels of marketing (especially product placement) to convince everyone that the cool people use your product...

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (1)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656572)

That can't hurt. There is a reason marketers make big bucks. Still, if you want to maintain sales you have to deliver value.

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (0)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656632)

Well yes. There are always people with such low self-esteem that marketing that plays at their pathetic need to perpetually hip or cool will succeed with spades. Witness the success of Starbucks, which makes some of the worst coffee I've ever tasted, and yet all the hipster doofuses line up to get their dog vomit crapachinos because "I look kewl..."

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656842)

I specifically LOVE Starbuck coffee. I prefer a French roast, or cappuchino/espresso roast.

There are people who think Dunkin Donuts' coffee is great. I haven't been one of them for about 16 years. Maybe you prefer DD, eh?

ps - you're a coffee snob. How big is a standard cup of coffee?

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (2)

thesandtiger (819476) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656846)

There is no universe in which Starbucks, the coffee of choice for soccer moms and middle-aged former yuppies, makes anyone look cool, or in which anyone actually imagines that starbucks makes them look cool.

The reason sbux succeeds despite having mediocre coffee is roughly the same as the reason mcdonalds succeeds: they're "good enough," "quick enough," "convenient enough" and "consistent enough."

Maybe when sbux first began showing up there was some small amount of cachet, but they're just another brand right now.

A much, much better example of marketing that succeeded at making doofuses feel cool would be American Apparel. The clothing that company offered was fantastically ugly, looked good on no one, and was ridiculously expensive. Yet the marketing played it up as so cool it doesn't even know it's cool/only for the super-sexy people, and a certain segment bought into it hardcore.

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (1)

chinakow (83588) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656700)

Okay, so you(and [some of] your antecedents in this thread) admit that people want to be like other people. So I fail to see how an Apple product being popular is a bad thing in this scenario. What I see as the problem is a corporate mentality that thinks building a better widget is going to sell more than building a popular widget.

Or they could just release a good product (1)

melted (227442) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656882)

Or they could just release a good product so that cool people would use it on screen on their own. Apple has never done "product placement".

Re:That's because the "tablet market" doesn't exis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656968)

No ... other vendors push out product that doesn't have the ecology and content. iTunes adds real value to the iPad for 99% of non-geeky players. You get apps (400 odd thousand of them), you get music, you get movies, you get books, you get pretty well everything you need to download and process the information that wets your frickin whistle, and you get to do it so bloody easily.

IOS is part of the story, but so is the damn Apple ecology that makes things so damn easy for newbie punters. Hell, they don't even have to think about it. I've seen two and three year olds messing with an iPad ... and having no problems at all. All my non-geek friends swear by them

Amazon could probably compete with Apple if it UpScaled the Kindle and provided something like iTunes for app, music, movies and books (I mean the latest Kindle ... basically still a dedicated bookreader ... can load less that 10% of the books you could install on an iPad) It needs to be much more adaptable, much more open to different functions, much more programmable ... but with the right hardware, Amazon already has an awesome distribution network that could really compete with Apple.

Android? It's an OK OS ... but without the seamless ecology, ease of use, and content and software distribution capabilities of Apple or Amazon it's not gonna be a player. A new Napster for Android, anyone?

Apple has peaked - it's obvious (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656392)

How can anyone not do well when their product has pretty much been the only one around so far? Now they just seriously fumbled the iPhone ball by releasing a half-assed update rather than the iPhone 5 their fanbois had been pretty much promised, even the most gullible of them will be questioning their loyalty in the face of a full 12 months wait for the next one - hell their "new" one is getting spanked all over the place in terms of network speed, horsepower, screen size etc and its not even out the door yet. When they do get round to it, again the competition will be 12 months ahead and so it continues....

Jobs dead, iPhone screwed up and now real head on competition from tablets on their own turf. No wonder they got so ludicrously litigous recently with the rounded corners fiasco and the bullying of German courts to ban the competition - sounds like someone there saw all this coming.

It was fun while it lasted, but now it really is time to think differently.

Re:Apple has peaked - it's obvious (1)

Kryptonian Jor-El (970056) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656494)

Seriously? The iPhone 4S has presold better than any iPhone before it

Re:Apple has peaked - it's obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656806)

Seriously? The iPhone 4S has presold better than any iPhone before it

And so what ? Selling to same people (that are already apple users) over and over again is easy. Especially if you just wave the shiny apple in front of them. Whats difficult is to increase market share gain new users, and guess what Android is stomping all over the iphone on a world wide basis.

Re:Apple has peaked - it's obvious (2)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656504)

Now they just seriously fumbled the iPhone ball by ...

... selling out the complete stock of the new device in only a couple days?

Nothing says failure like profit. Nothing says fumble like tripping over piles of gold.

I don't have a dog in the fight; I have no desire to own a smart phone. But I do like laughing at the android folks, those guys are hilarious. I hope they win, they have a cool idea, ethic, and philosophy, but that doesn't mean the rest of us aren't laughing at them.

Re:Apple has peaked - it's obvious (0)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656580)

If you define losing by making gobs of money then Apple has clearly failed.

Re:Apple has peaked - it's obvious (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656924)

Android has already won. It's pretty much got the *rest* of the smartphone market, which is nontrivial.

I met the owner of a toothpaste company (there aren't many, so go and guess who) a ling time ago, and he shared with me that getting 2% of the toothpaste market in the U.S made for a good living. He didn't really need 5% to do well. Android doesn't really need 90% of the market, the Android device makers seem to be pretty happy with what they have. And remember, Android has generated a viable competitor to iOS. What was the competitor before Android?

Re:Apple has peaked - it's obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656512)

How can anyone not do well when their product has pretty much been the only one around so far? Now they just seriously fumbled the iPhone ball by releasing a half-assed update rather than the iPhone 5 their fanbois had been pretty much promised, even the most gullible of them will be questioning their loyalty in the face of a full 12 months wait for the next one - hell their "new" one is getting spanked all over the place in terms of network speed, horsepower, screen size etc and its not even out the door yet. When they do get round to it, again the competition will be 12 months ahead and so it continues....

Jobs dead, iPhone screwed up and now real head on competition from tablets on their own turf. No wonder they got so ludicrously litigous recently with the rounded corners fiasco and the bullying of German courts to ban the competition - sounds like someone there saw all this coming.

It was fun while it lasted, but now it really is time to think differently.

I suspect by the end of next weekend, at least 3 million iPhone 4S models will have been sold. Compared to 1.7 million iPhone 4 models in the same span of time during its introduction. AT&T has already said it's their most successful preorder device ever, completely sold out. Same goes for Verizon. And Apple. Only Sprint is still offering preorders, and only on the 32GB and 64GB models.

That certainly goes make it seem like you know exactly what you're talking about.

Oh wait...it means you're basically full of shit and know nothing.

Re:Apple has peaked - it's obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656576)

3 million iPhone 4S in 7 days is less than 7 x 750k daily Android sales. In fact its about half. Or 3 months for WP7, take your pick.

You are so PATHETIC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656728)

The alleged Android numbers are based on the combination of all the SHIPPED devices (multiple models from multiple vendors) which are MOSTLY CRAPWARE.

The iPhone 4S is a SINGLE model that is OUTSELLING (not out-shipping) all of them on the 1st day of pre-order ... and it is not even out yet.

Re:You are so PATHETIC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656922)

I heard all this is a terrible mixup, and in fact Apple called the press to say "Steve Jobs is dead sorry there isn't an iPhone5" but were holding their iPhone wrong when they made the call.

Re:Apple has peaked - it's obvious (1)

imikem (767509) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656660)

Sign me up right now to fail just as badly as Apple has here.

Re:Apple has peaked - it's obvious (1)

Junta (36770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656798)

I agree the reality is the 4S *shouldn't* be doing well, but rabid fans have already bought them all out. The iPhone user at work openly mocks the rest of us for buying non-apple, even though my device has better * everything* than his iPhone4 which cost him more. Higher resolution, ,higher bandwidth, faster processors, more ram, more storage, microSD slot, all the apps I could ever want, but somehow I'm stupid for having a phone that doesn't 'just work' somehow. He assures me one day my phone won't work and I'll have to root it to get some weird debug interface to repair it, and his iPhone will never need that. This is what many Apple users actually believe. Inicdentally, if I *had* shown him a root shell whether I 'needed' it or not, he actually considers having that capability a weakness and proof that a platform doesn't "just work" becuase that entails never needing a shell prompt.

They aren't buying it as competition for other non-Apple devices, they are so brand-loyal that they think any non-Apple devices will kill their family and so they only compare specs within Apple's own line.

Re:Apple has peaked - it's obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37657006)

Not to defend fanbois but a phone is more than the raw specifications. Apple have created a family of products that work well together. Android has the same thing but, frankly, the family is not as consistent. It does take away from the end user experience and for all the more Apple products cost it is worth it for some people.
 
Take whatever you want but you're a rabid fanboi too, you're just not as honest as some others are.

It's the apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656468)

I have both 2 iPads and a Xoom. The price didn't matter since the 32GB models cost the same but my iPads get used a lot while my Xoom is mostly sitting on the shelf due to the lack of good apps. Flash doesn't work very well on a tablet (the late Steve was right) so I uninstalled it and most sites don't detect the Xoom's user agent properly and send me to the mobile site instead of the real site because of cheap user agent detection. Even Slashdot gets it wrong. The lack of tablet optimized apps means that most apps still assume a phone style UI while the iPad app store is properly designed to filter out non iPad apps that have to run in "2x" mode.

The recent iPhone keynote was right, "Despite everyone and their brothers making a tablet, iPad has over 75% market share".

I may not be a mac or an iPhone Fanboy, but I am an iPad fanboy and proud of it. Fanboys are everywhere and haters are running away because they can't take the truth. Windows 7 could be the next XP if Windows 8 doesn't make the non-tablet UI worth it.

Re:It's the apps (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656706)

I think you''re saying something important here: It's *NOT* the price, it's a combination of the quality of the hardware design/execution, and the available apps.

For tablets to develop as a viable "market", hardware manufacturers will need to foster a more healthy app market.

not a "rough year for tablet makers" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656476)

It's a rough year for tablet makers who *are not Apple*. Apple created the market, and the trouble for everyone else is that in most people's minds, you can buy the "real thing" (iPad), or you can cheap out a little and get a knockoff. People want the real thing, and if you aren't that, you better be a LOT cheaper. So far, that's hard for anyone to do, and even if they do, you don't get the Apple app store along with it, so it has much less value to most people. The software ecosystem is seen as inferior on Android, and the apps tend to be ported phone apps.

Like it or not, Apple is doing really well in the tablet space. They are the ones who figured out how to do it right, not to half-ass it. The iPad is THE thing people want now. Desktops are all but dead, and laptops are not dead but are being hurt.

Times change, but of course there are always people who cling to the past.

Re:not a "rough year for tablet makers" (2)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656622)

Don't get carried away. Desktops are not dead and aren't going away. Pads, Laptops and Desktops all serve different purposes. When you need the cpu power, massive ram and expansion capabilities of a tower a pad isn't going to cut it.

Re:not a "rough year for tablet makers" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656704)

"Desktops are not dead "

Right... which is why of the dozens of people I know (granted biased towards the younger hipper crowd), exactly zero have bought a new desktop in the last 3 or 4 years. They buy laptops and iPads. And I'm sure that's why entire companies are getting out of the desktop market while the getting's good. And why there's so much industry speculation about what happens to companies like Newegg in the near future when that market has dried up because everybody moved to tablets, cell phones, and laptops.

The slashdot crowd has a long history of being completely out of touch with the masses. This is just another example. People want mobility, they want out of the malware infested nonsense that is Windows desktops. They want the phone in their pocket to BE their computer. They don't want to type, and they don't want to be chained to some huge beige box under a desk. Slashdotters don't understand that the world is not composed of people who compile their kernels for fun.

Tablets + smartphones will be 90% of the market. The table scraps will remain of course, so yeah, desktops won't entirely "die". But Unix workstations didn't entirely die in the face of x86 either. Just close enough that the bulk of the market moved on.

Go to a university or place where the younger crowd hangs. Take a look around. Open your eyes. Then come back and tell me what you see *on average*, not under some one-off Linux nerd's desk. Hint: It won't be desktops. They're dying.

Re:not a "rough year for tablet makers" (3, Insightful)

nomadic (141991) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656852)

"Go to a university or place where the younger crowd hangs. Take a look around. Open your eyes. Then come back and tell me what you see *on average*, not under some one-off Linux nerd's desk."

Exactly, I went to a hipster cafe and I saw ZERO desktops being carried around. Oh, wait...

thrive (0, Troll)

Dr. Tom (23206) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656520)

When I got a Thrive there were the inevitable "Why didn't you get an iPad?" questions. I can program it without paying a fee. It's open source. It's Linux. I can run Python apps. The list goes on and on, but all the people who ask the question don't care at all about any of that. Pity, they should. Top it off: you weenies WISH you had 10 inches.

Re:thrive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656590)

It never ceases to amaze me just how out of touch with the general population slash dotters seems to be...

Re:thrive (1)

rjames13 (1178191) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656614)

I'm not amazed, at how out of touch we all are. I'm amazed at how some people think the entire world should think like them.

Re:thrive (4, Insightful)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656620)

The list goes on and on, but all the people who ask the question don't care at all about any of that. Pity, they should.

Why should they? That's a serious question, I'm not trying to troll here or be flamebait.

The demographic for the iPad is completely divorced from the features you have listed as the main reasons you went for a non-iPad tablet, and given that you can get those other types of tablets, and the users getting iPads are also getting what they want, why should they care?

If they want to program on it, or run Python apps, or install custom firmwares and so on, then there's a market that already caters to that. If they want what the iPad does, then they have the iPad.

Just because the iPad doesn't fit your use case doesn't mean that anyone who doesn't want to do the things you do with computing equipment is somehow wrong, or that they should care about what you care about.

Re:thrive (1)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656646)

Not everyone is an enthusiast. Some people just want to play. I like open source but really how open is the Thrive? Can I install debian or even Meego on it? If I can't then it's a semi-open system at best. If I can wipe windows off my laptop and install linux on it then I should be able to on my tablet shouldn't I?

Re:thrive (5, Insightful)

Sancho (17056) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656680)

I can program it without paying a fee.

You can program the iPad without paying a fee. There's a fee if you want to publish to the store, however.

To get the best tools for developing for iOS, it's true that you want a Mac with Xcode, but it's not your only option anymore.

It's open source.

Could you point me to the Honeycomb source? Last I heard, it's never going to be available. [geek.com]

It's Linux.

Why is this valuable? The kernel that runs the Thrive is Linux, but that's almost completely irrelevant. For underlying OS code, I'm going to prefer that which does the job best. That might be Linux, or it might be something else. "It's Linux," smacks of the same kind of kool-aid drinking of which Apple users are so often accused.

I can run Python apps.

Certainly a nifty feature. However why should "all the people who ask the question" care about that? How many of them are going to care? Almost every one of them will just use apps from the Market.

I'm not hating on the Thrive, which looks like a very decent tablet. I'm just sick of the FUD, and I'm really tired of hearing about how open Android is, when it really doesn't follow FOSS principles at all. Most Android phones have to be hacked just like iPhones in order to replace the ROM. On those which don't, you lose all claim to a warranty (absent consumer protections to the contrary, which you'd have to fight in court in order to keep.)

Android is open in the same way that TiVo is open. You might be able to see the source (not so on 3.1, apparently) but you likely won't be able to modify it and run it on your device.

Re:thrive (1)

CODiNE (27417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657090)

I agree with your points but add that you can't run your own apps on the iPad without paying the $99 a year developer fee.

XCode and the simulator are free though.

Re:thrive (1)

Junta (36770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656892)

Well, one, Honeycomb is not open source, so there's that. For another, believe it or not, Apple fans consider Apple's lock-in and outright *inability* to do a lot of things a feature. They feel that Apple has decided the most appropriate experience and to consider anything else would just make their lives too complicated. They don't buy the "you can ignore capability if you want" argument, they think if it is possible to do something, you *must* do it. So "you can write python apps" somehow transforms in their minds to "you must write python apps". When they see one single model of iPhone, they feel comfortable, when they see a sea of Android devices with varying price points and features, they get outright repulsed.

what about 35 dollar aakash tablet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656524)

Many readers have submitted stories about a new $35 tablet computer released today in India. The Aakash (meaning sky) has been handed out to 500 students for an initial trial run, if successful a $60 commercial version will hit the shelves later this year. The Aakash computer runs Android 2.2 (Froyo), has a 7-inch touch screen, 256MB of RAM, 32GB expandable memory slot, two USB ports, and weighs in at only 350 grams.

the true cost of aakash is 21 dollars but due to replacement gaurantee, they have to jack up price to 14 dollars.

The tablet is made with 800 components without any intermediate modules so that cost can be kept down and the touch screen is under 10 dollars price.

OS is free (android).

Re:what about 35 dollar aakash tablet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656698)

Maybe India should be more focused on brining public toilets, running water and better sanitary conditions than a cheap tablet that most people will just use to play video games or watch pirated movies.

Re:what about 35 dollar aakash tablet (2)

wonkavader (605434) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656910)

AC, if they can save money on education in the form of books, they can spend that on toilets.

USB ports? (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656976)

That's fantastic, given that the iPad doesn't have one. Do Androids have it - the Xoom, the Thrive,...

BOM of $150 (0)

lkcl (517947) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656666)

what many people don't realise is that the apple ippad's FOB price, out of Shenzen (FOB - "Free on Board" as in "your responsibility once it's on the ship"), is $USD 150. that's in direct contrast to that article which back-calculated a completely arbitrary set of prices for components, which came up with a number "$300". it's wrong. here's the major components: battery: $15. ARM processor: $20. NAND Flash RAM: $10. DDR memory: $15. screen: $25. capacitive panel: $25. that's $110, right there. add on about another $15 (which is very generous), you come to $125. add on a build cost, add on a profit margin, you see how you get to $150 and not *more* than $150.

this same cost of components applies equally to all the other tablets out there. so why in god's name are these manufacturers trying to sell these devices at a 300% markup? i don't understand.

Re:BOM of $150 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37656768)

Because stuff costs more then the sum of the parts. You have to account for costs of shipping parts from the suppliers to factories, Warehouse space, cost of assembly, shipping completed units to stores, costs of operating stores, advertising costs, cost of developing the software, hardware development costs, retooling factory costs, costs or printing up boxes. Then on top of all that you need to turn a profit or else you will go out of business.

Re:BOM of $150 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37657084)

And where'd you get your numbers from?

Here we go with the apple bashers (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#37656850)

I don't care if you like apple or not, is it too much to ask to keep it from becoming a personal slug-fest wit a bunch of derogatory remarks?

How about we stick to technology, or is that too difficult for you people now?

What the hell has happened to Slashdot?

Re:Here we go with the apple bashers (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657034)

I've read Slashdot since year one. It has always, always been like this.

Re:Here we go with the apple bashers (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657070)

So have i, and i honestly have seen a sharp decline in the last year or so.

Re:Here we go with the apple bashers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37657096)

So have i, and i honestly have seen a sharp decline in the last year or so.

Much more whiners these days.

Re:Here we go with the apple bashers (1)

ThorGod (456163) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657112)

To some extent, internet comment systems have always been like this. There've always been those random trollers just looking for the way to disagree over anything. If you post a comment on how blue the sky is, you'll get flamed from someone who swears it's just a whig conspiracy designed to make us ignore the lead they put in our water. "They want you to think the sky's blue so that you wont pay attention to how much like lead the water tastes." No matter how poor their reasoning, someone always finds a way to passionately disagree on the internet.

my problem with tablets (1)

ThorGod (456163) | more than 2 years ago | (#37657080)

I got a blackberry playbook a couple weeks back (a present, or I wouldn't have it). I have to say, I'm underwhelmed with the 3rd party applications. It could just be the playbook and maybe an Android tablet would have programs that are more mature, but I doubt it. The stuff I see on my playbook feels like throw backs to the old applications you could get for PDAs (remember those?) Yes, there's a way to do whatever you want to do on it, but you've got to 'manage expectations'...

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>