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Richard Stallman's Dissenting View of Steve Jobs

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the if-you-don't-have-anything-nice-to-say dept.

Software 1452

Garabito writes "Richard Stallman, founder of the Free Software Foundation, has posted his not-so-fond memories of Steve Jobs on his personal site, saying, 'As Chicago Mayor Harold Washington said of the corrupt former Mayor Daley, "I'm not glad he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone." Nobody deserves to have to die — not Jobs, not Mr. Bill, not even people guilty of bigger evils than theirs. But we all deserve the end of Jobs' malign influence on people's computing.' His statement has spurred reaction from the community; some even asking to the Free Software movement to find a new voice."

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Stallman and FOSS (0, Flamebait)

tech4 (2467692) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661496)

It's interesting that persons promoting freedom want to restrict what other people do. This is also why I like BSD license more than GPL. It is truly free software license, while GPL tries to restrict what people can do with software and code. On top of that they don't seem to understand that usability and UI's matter A LOT. Face it, interfaces and user experience has always been horrible with FOSS software. Ubuntu has tried to fix that with Linux, but it's still far from Mac OSX or even Windows. Even I hate that interface. This is why companies have actual persons working solely on interfaces, user experience and usability - it's an important thing. With FOSS software the author just throwns in together quickly, with some menu items or buttons sometimes just as a placeholder that do nothing!

I'm not exactly fan of Apple, but Richard Stallman has no merits to basically say he's glad Steve Jobs is dead. Apart from the fact that it is completely stupid thing to say, he just seems jealous that people like Jobs' products and ideas better. The fact is, apart from the a few geeks, people in the real world really don't care about his views or what he is trying to promote.

When people, even some geeks, think about Apple's products they just think they can go to a store and buy a device that will work straight away and is guaranteed to have some quality. They don't want to mess around with the system. Running only free software really does not concern them and never will. It would be good if Stallman and other FOSS fanatics understood that and stop acting like jerks, because that will only have negative effect on their image.

Seriously, what was he thinking? Now people will think of Linux geeks as those lunatics who are happy to see people die.

Re:Stallman and FOSS (2, Insightful)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661548)

He specifically states he was not happy to see Jobs die.

I see you trollin'.

Re:Stallman and FOSS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661760)

He specifically states he was not happy to see Jobs die.

I see you trollin'.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

Re:Stallman and FOSS (2, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661566)

It's interesting that persons promoting freedom want to restrict what other people do.

Because we'd clearly be most free, when there are absolutely no restrictions on what people do. For example, if you stop me from assaulting you, then I'm clearly not free at all am I?

Re:Stallman and FOSS (0)

djsmiley (752149) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661636)

1. Attempt to view porn on iPhone app
2. ???
3. PROFIT!

Re:Stallman and FOSS (3, Insightful)

Hijacked Public (999535) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661890)

Stallman does, and always has, define freedom as that which most benefits him. He is or was a programmer and he demands the freedom to program and modify the software and devices he uses. Which is great for him.

But how can the freedom to choose not include the freedom for people to choose an Apple style 'walled garden'? I am absolutely certain that Stallman doesn't know what I want better than I do.

Further, if you don't buy any Apple products, how can you be effected by Apple? Apart from your not being able to buy a tablet that apes an ipad in countries that don't allow products to ape one another. Also other than getting angry enough to click reply on every Apple/Jobs story.

Re:Stallman and FOSS (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661612)

Yeah if you don't have the intelligence to actually comprehend what he is saying maybe you should just keep quiet?

Re:Stallman and FOSS (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661630)

Meh. Stalman only cares about "sustainable" freedom. Apple, and Jobs, were NO champions of that cause. We all know the very good things about Apple, but Stalman keeps in mind the BAD things, such as extreme vendor lock-in, anti-privacy instances, market lock-in (closed app-store, anyone), extreme censorship against FLOSS, hostile behavior towards other companies and hostile behavior towards competing products...

We are already screwed if people take Stalman as the corporate image of Linux. But that doesn't mean the guy is wrong.

Re:Stallman and FOSS (3, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661646)

I'm not exactly fan of Apple, but Richard Stallman has no merits to basically say he's glad Steve Jobs is dead.

There is no merit (see what I did there? In case you didn't, I used the word correctly) to the assertion that someone who has said they are not glad someone is dead is glad that they are dead. I am not glad that Jobs died either, but I am glad he won't be at the helm of Apple Computer, Inc.

Re:Stallman and FOSS (5, Insightful)

Kludge (13653) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661652)

Richard Stallman has no merits to basically say he's glad Steve Jobs is dead.

He didn't say that. He said, 'I'm not glad he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone.'

Linux geeks ... are happy to see people die.

He did not say that. He said, 'I'm not glad he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone.'

apart from the a few geeks, people in the real world really don't care about his views or what he is trying to promote.

Maybe you don't know what web site this is.

Ubuntu has tried to fix that with Linux, but it's still far from Mac OSX or even Windows. ... I'm not exactly fan of Apple

Again, I think you're not on the right web site, and you probably really are an Apple fan.

Re:Stallman and FOSS (1)

1s44c (552956) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661660)

I'm not exactly fan of Apple, but Richard Stallman has no merits to basically say he's glad Steve Jobs is dead.

I'm all for a bit of Stallman bashing but he never said THAT or even anything close to THAT.

Re:Stallman and FOSS (-1, Flamebait)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661680)

I thought the same thing, who is RMS to speak of freedom? Unlike the GPL, Apple stuff isn't viral .

Re:Stallman and FOSS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661812)

You can't promote freedom without promoting the restriction of the rights of others to restrict freedom. I can't park somewhere without restricting your freedom of parking in the exact same spot. The word 'freedom' in your first sentence is not incompatible with the word 'restrict' in that same sentence, unless the latter presupposes a different definition of 'freedom' than the first. You basically redefine the word within the sentence if that sentence is to make sense. That won't do.

Re:Stallman and FOSS (2)

ultranova (717540) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661962)

It's interesting that persons promoting freedom want to restrict what other people do.

It's almost as crazy as suggesting that constitutional democracies were more free than unlimited dictatorships.

Thank god (5, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661500)

Look, I know no one likes to speak ill of the dead and all, but geez, last week's lovefest got WAY WAY WAY out of hand. Jobs was an important figure, no doubt, but the over-the-top platitudes were often more humorous and bizarre than heartfelt or touching. There were "expert" commentators on CNN calling Jobs the "most important person in the history of technology" with straight faces. People who didn't even KNOW the guy were crying like their daddy had just died. At one point I think I saw Wolf Blitzer and Anderson Cooper make a teary-eyed pledge to throw themselves on his funeral pyre.

I doubt Jesus' apostles were as upset after the crucifixion as some of the supposedly objective "experts" and "journalists" I saw last week. It's not like I expected them to get into the more negative and tawdry aspects of his past with his body still warm, but I didn't expect such unabashed hero-worship and hagiography either. It was just shameful.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661552)

And the people claiming that he is with god now... except that he was a Buddhist.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661568)

Were you saving up your own hyperbole for just the right occasion? I'm no fan of Jobs, but it was not WAY WAY WAY out of hand. You must have been immersing yourself in hogwash.

Re:Thank god (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661586)

Look, I know no one likes to speak ill of the dead and all, but geez, last week's lovefest got WAY WAY WAY out of hand.

Amen [slashdot.org] .

It's not like I expected them to get into the more negative and tawdry aspects of his past with his body still warm, but I didn't expect such unabashed hero-worship and hagiography either. It was just shameful.

The media, of course, is in love with walled gardens, and are in awe of Jobs' ability to sell them. It all makes total and complete sense.

Ah yes, bring on the bad moderation. (2, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661722)

Flamebait? If my comment is flamebait, then this whole story is flamebait, and it should never have reached the main page. Moderation by Apple shill, or Big Media shill? You decide.

Either way, I can afford the karma.

Re:Ah yes, bring on the bad moderation. (1, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661938)

Why does someone have to be a shill to disagree with you?

I find that these days, the label "shill" is being used in the same way a lot of other terms, such as "anti-semetic" is used - to silence the person that label is being applied to, because there is no argument against it once the label has been applied.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661588)

Look, I know no one likes to speak ill of the dead and all, but geez, last week's lovefest got WAY WAY WAY out of hand. Jobs was an important figure, no doubt, but the over-the-top platitudes were often more humorous and bizarre than heartfelt or touching. There were "expert" commentators on CNN calling Jobs the "most important person in the history of technology" with straight faces. People who didn't even KNOW the guy were crying like their daddy had just died. At one point I think I saw Wolf Blitzer and Anderson Cooper make a teary-eyed pledge to throw themselves on his funeral pyre.

I doubt Jesus' apostles were as upset after the crucifixion as some of the supposedly objective "experts" and "journalists" I saw last week. It's not like I expected them to get into the more negative and tawdry aspects of his past with his body still warm, but I didn't expect such unabashed hero-worship and hagiography either. It was just shameful.

Amen! Steve Jobs was no saint. To the contrary, he was quite a dick. Why people feel the need to deify this man is beyond me.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661650)

Thank you, maybe rough to hear but some realistic comments. The media coverage and fictional history that has been "reported" about Jobs after his death have been insulting to so many that actually were technology innovators or even knew what was going on. Jobs was a salesman, nothing more, nothing less - maybe the best ever but absolutely nothing more than that.

Re:Thank god (5, Interesting)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661672)

I'd mod you up, had I the points. I even saw a somewhat disturbing piece on one of those Sunday shows asserting that Steve Jobs was indeed the FOUR most important people to influence technology in the past half century, since calling him the single most important person was apparently already too low a tribute. Steve was clearly very influential but to blindly say that he was "The most influential in history" is a huge reach. Just because there are certain groups of people who rely entirely on his company's products (not even a majority of those who use technology on a daily basis) that group (almost all of those in national media, it would seem) feel justified in glorifying him to no apparent end.

And hey, at least RMS won't need to worry about his funeral being picketed by the Westboro folks.

Re:Thank god (0)

wisty (1335733) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661912)

OTOH, apart from iOS Apps, Apple is pretty open. Type "python" or "ruby" or "gcc" into a new Windows box, and see what comes up (yes, I know gcc is an optional install).

On the scale of things, Apple is neutral-greedy, like Microsoft. RMS is open-free. The big badies are the DRM crowd, and neither Apple or Microsoft want them to win. Steve may not have liked your taste in ripped music, your torrented TV series, or your third party apps, but he would defend to the death your right to run them, as long as that means you will pay an Apple tax to do so.

Re:Thank god (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661702)

Saint Jobs was good. Saint Jobs was great. Why are you not showing proper gratitude towards being blessed with His presence? Why do you hate your fellow man? Steve was your friend. Steve was everybody's friend. All He wanted to do was make everyone happy under His benevolent image.

You must be flawed, fellow iCitizen. The Black Turtleneck Ops have been contacted. Do not be afraid; your harmful thoughts will be corrected and you will be happy on the Way of Steve. Saint Jobs was good. Saint Jobs was great.

This is the sort of thing (3, Insightful)

Presto Vivace (882157) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661706)

that makes me glad that I do not have a television. It is easy to ignore the stupid on the internet. There is plenty of stupid on the internet, but it is easy to ignore it.

Re:This is the sort of thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661818)

Televisions these days have lots of channels. It is easy to ignore stupid on television, also.

Re:This is the sort of thing (2)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661968)

Really?

Which one of the TV channels is "The Not Stupid" channel? Because I never found it. Even the "science" and "documentary" themed channels like History and Discovery spend plenty of time on blowing shit up, credulous UFO shows and ghost hunters, not to mention "the science of Jesus" kind of bullshit.

Re:Thank god (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661716)

This, this, 1000 times this.

It drives me nuts when someone dies and suddenly everyone treats them like a saint.

Steve Jobs was an egotistical asshole in life, and I'm not going to start thinking differently just because he died.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661730)

> At one point I think I saw Wolf Blitzer and Anderson Cooper make a teary-eyed pledge to throw themselves on his funeral pyre.

Even AlJazeera found time to cry over him... and they have revolutions all over the place...

No kidding (4, Insightful)

Giant Electronic Bra (1229876) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661736)

It got a bit pathetic with people running around talking about how Steve Jobs invented the mouse, the personal computer, the smartphone, the media player, the tablet, and practically sliced bread. The guy was an excellent product designer with a good eye for where the market was going to go next. He was no more instrumental in shaping 21st century society than any other fashion designer. And yay, he was yet another ruthless capitalist, yawn!

Re:Thank god (2, Insightful)

Trilkk (2007802) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661752)

Look, I know no one likes to speak ill of the dead and all, but geez, last week's lovefest got WAY WAY WAY out of hand.

The idol worship over the death of THE MOST INFLUENTIAL MAN IN COMPUTING was quite embarrassing, but the comment from RMS outdid that easily. He could have explained his views in a more polite manner, but he chose not to.

Stallman should remember that he isn't just any random character fighting for software freedom. He's the self-appointed publicity figure for open source movement, and in a case like this, it does not only matter what he thinks or what the members of FSF think. Rather, it's what other people unaffiliated with open source movement think.

The end result here being that most people now percieve Stallman as a bully who would be quick to slander the dead, and those who despise open source will have a easy straw man to attack.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661984)

And nothing in this debacle, including Stallman's response, should surprise any of us.

The mainstream media is as clueless about technology as your 80-something aunt who just learned how to use "the Google" to find recipes. The fact is that the more people know about the history of the desktop computer business, the less impressed they are with Jobs, except as a marketer. He was freaking brilliant when it came to creating and then cultivating a personality-driven following. He found a way to take existing technology, make it extremely usable (a highly laudable and desperately needed accomplishment, IMO), and then sell it to a major slice of the public at breathtaking markups. But he most certainly did not invent even half the things people are now claiming he invented. I have friends who work at Xerox who are seeing red over these claims, and I don't blame them.

Stallman was, well, Stallman. He's not happy unless he's peeing in someone's cornflakes. A friend of mine once described him as being an even less polished and less discreet version of Ralph Nader, which seems about right. I'm surprised Stallman didn't make his remarks at a press conference while wearing an "iDead" T-shirt.

Re:Thank god (4, Informative)

WankersRevenge (452399) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661762)

Dude ... the contemporary news media is entirely shameful. They will do this to any story that gets eyeballs. They will wring it for every last drop of blood, then jump on it to see if it produces any more and even when it's clearly dead, they will continue to twist and shimmy the fucker until there's nothing left.

Do yourself and cut the cable. There's plenty of other ways to get your news. Or at the very least, keep it off for awhile. After awhile, you'll be surprised to find out that you won't miss it.

Re:Thank god (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661780)

Are you actually trying to bring forward a wholesome point of some sort in that wall of empty rhetoric? Are you trying to say that Stallman's stupid-ass comment was ok and warranted just because some Apple fanboys overdid their lamenting? Because that's the only (vague) point I can see in your vacuous post - you trying to say "well, it's ok to say what he said, because, well, the others said blah and blah, so..... yeah." I take it you didn't participate in the debate team in school. Moron.

Re:Thank god (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661810)

When you die, no one's going to give a shit. Millions did this time. Who are you to decide how MUCH they should care. Oer-the-top from the perspective of some douchebag with a slashdot account, a stupid nonsensical sig file, and a chip on his shoulder may be perfectly appropriate for someone who chose a career path in interaction design, inspired by the ease of use of a macintosh.

Don't judge others feelings dude. They're no more or less valid than yours. They're personal.

Re:Thank god (4, Insightful)

nine-times (778537) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661820)

It's got nothing to do with anything except that the news media loves sensationalism. To that end, they'd like to turn every death into a tragedy.

It's not about hero-worship of Jobs. It's about the news echo-chamber, loving to hear themselves talk.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661868)

Please. I'm still in a period of mourning and shock.

We've passed the three day mark and no sign of a resurrection. Could we all have been wrong? Could it be he was not the second coming of the Messiah? How could that be? We all went out and tried LSD, became Buddhists, underground phone hackers, decorated our homes with shiny back and white plastic furniture, gave up the command line and even one of our mouse buttons - for what?

Please do not rub salt in the wound by posting derogatory, unflattering or anything less than worshiping comments because doing so could negatively impact our collective karma.

Re:Thank god (0)

carlhaagen (1021273) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661876)

Oh, so, just because some of these people expressed exaggerated grief and idolizing, RMS' blunt blurting is just fine? You seem to have a knack of saying absolutely nothing at all of any substance what so ever while still being able to sugar-coat it with fancy words and paraphrasing. Say, do you also happen to have something clever to say about the people in North Korea who put on fake cries when the, or someone close to the Great Leader passes away?

Re:Thank god (4, Interesting)

TheTurtlesMoves (1442727) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661880)

You know what my daughter said when told about Steve Jobs death? "Who is Steve Jobs?". Lets face reality, there was a few segments here and there about "wow this guy died and he invented technology man"*, admittedly by the odd "famous" person. But most people don't know and don't care who he was or what he did. /. is not really a typical slice of the general public in this regard.

Now if Justin Bieber gets run over by a concrete mixer, you bet your ass you the media will get "WAY WAY WAY" out of hand.

The nice thing about the media is that it is opt in. You don't have to watch/read crap.

* sure the is a lot of buzz on tech based web sites etc, but that is hardly mainstream.

Re:Thank god (0)

StuartHankins (1020819) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661896)

Steve Jobs, via Apple Computer, helped a lot of people. Together they influenced countless careers and lives, more so than anyone else (or any other company) of our lifetime.

I was quite upset when he died, not because I knew him but because I can see all the ways Apple products make my life easier and more productive. This man was someone I deeply respected and hoped to emulate in a lot of ways.

Yes, perhaps a hero of sorts. What is wrong with that? Would you feel more comfortable if it was a sports star who received such admiration? An actress? Please. When you write things such as this, you seem upset and a bit jealous. You should try to be as great an influence as this man.

my dissenting view of stallman (1, Offtopic)

MichaelKristopeit413 (2018846) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661538)

he looks like he smells bad.

Re:my dissenting view of stallman (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661610)

Wow, forming impressions on someones intellect based on his looks and posture.

Slashdot = stagnated.

Re:my dissenting view of stallman (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661662)

he does.

Timing is everything, and RMS is a jackass (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661600)

Yes, RMS has done some great things.

But he needs to GET THE FUCK OVER HIMSELF.

His is not the only viable vision.

MOST PEOPLE JUST WANT THEIR TOY TO FUCKING WORK AND DON'T CARE.

Sorry about the shouting, but it's well-deserved IMO.

Re:Timing is everything, and RMS is a jackass (0)

djsmiley (752149) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661654)

+1 for truth!.

You should learn more vocabulary (2)

stooo (2202012) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661934)

it helps expressing yourself better

Re:Timing is everything, and RMS is a jackass (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661942)

"MOST PEOPLE JUST WANT THEIR TOY TO FUCKING WORK "

Which is why Steve Job's vision has built the most profitable computing company in the world and made Apple a household name whose devices are wanted by millions from schoolchildren to grandmothers, and none of those people have even HEARD of RMS let alone used the "GNU toolchain". RMSs vision is great for neckbeards. For normal people, they just want shit to work, and Steve Jobs gave them that.

RMS is a sore loser.

Again: not surprising (1, Insightful)

dward90 (1813520) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661614)

Stallman wants exactly one thing: visbility for FOSS. He doesn't care about anything else. So if he has to make some pseudo-controversial statement about a generally well-liked public figure in order to get some air time, he will. Personally, I elect to pay him little attention.

Re:Again: not surprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661734)

it's not controversial... one of his worst enemy died and he just said that nobody deserves to die, even if it's his worst enemy...
it doesn't look controversial, until you want to read something controversial

Re:Again: not surprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661798)

More hippy wanker showboating from Stallman. Quelle surprise.

Apple is bad. Foss is good (1)

stooo (2202012) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661822)

I like the style of RMS, the world needs it.
Jobs was a sucessful inventor, but Apple builds very closed systems. (even if they use some BSD code) This is bad for users.

for those who are interested (4, Interesting)

Presto Vivace (882157) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661618)

Re:for those who are interested (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661814)

"But the confusion of calling it Linux was a terrible blow to the free software movement." It WAS Linux. Linux wasn't the only place you could run the GNU userland and toolchain. The obvious solution would have been to have an official GNU Linux much earlier, which would have avoided all these nightmare arguments about GNU/Linux.

He's a religious fundamentalist nut (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661622)

Not one bit different, down to the careless, unempathic, arrogant perspective he has of the rest of the world and those who don't share his belief. JUST like a fundamentalist nutcase.

Irrelevancy (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661628)

RMS has become a parody. You really can't expect anything better from someone with Asperger's and zero social awareness.

How many thousands will leave flowers at their local whatever when RMS dies? Will anyone even notice?

Sounds fair. (5, Insightful)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661638)

Jobs and his company are based entirely on control of other people's property. You can't put the OS on your own hardware, you can't run your own apps on the iPod Touch / iPhone without hacking it, you can't use products which directly compete with Apple's offering on either either (heh). Are you all forgetting iTunes prior to the catalogue being converted to DRM-free MP3s?

Horrible people can do good things just as good people can do horrible things, and a lot of the things Jobs did in computing were horrible. Pretty, and king of usability, but all a thing veneer on something fundamentally malign.

Re:Sounds fair. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661800)

Are you all forgetting that the DRM on iTunes was there only at the request of the record companies, and that it was apple that gained enough leverage to force them to withdraw that policy on iTunes?

Re:Sounds fair. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661866)

Jobs and his company are based entirely on control of other people's property.

This is obviously not true. You have two choices:
1. Don't buy the device, nobody is forcing you to. Apple is not a monopoly.
2. You make your our device with the same specs and load your software on it.

You buy Apple hardware at their terms not yours, and I don't think there is any confusion in the customer's mind on this.

Re:Sounds fair. (2)

ckhorne (940312) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661932)

Jobs and his company are based entirely on control of other people's property. You can't put the OS on your own hardware, you can't run your own apps on the iPod Touch / iPhone without hacking it, you can't use products which directly compete with Apple's offering on either either (heh). Are you all forgetting iTunes prior to the catalogue being converted to DRM-free MP3s?

No. Jobs and his company were based on one thing- making products so that they can make money. Apple hasn't been run as some ideology in order inflict control - they've done so because they know they can appeal to a larger audience - namely, the common, non-techie person. My parents (and grandparents, for that matter), who can use an iPad, don't care that they can't put their own OS on their hardware. They don't care that they can't run their own apps. Nor do they even know what DRM is. They only care that when they pick up the product, it's very intuitive and things just work.

Apple is not a government. It's a company whose success depends on how many devices they can sell. If you want to be able to do the things you've mentioned, then there are alternatives. It's not "control" when people voluntarily pay money for something.

Horrible people can do good things just as good people can do horrible things, and a lot of the things Jobs did in computing were horrible. Pretty, and king of usability, but all a thing veneer on something fundamentally malign.

I won't deny that Apple is very draconian from a developer's perspective. I'm an app developer, and I abhor the restrictions. But I choose to write in that environment because I reach a far larger audience with my product.

Apple delivers a product - a choice if you will. If you want to blame anyone, blame the people who buy the products to support the ideology.

More to communicatio than being right (0)

blarkon (1712194) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661668)

Stallman combines the rhetorical nuance of an asteroid impact with the diplomactic tact of a woodchipper.

Not only is there wisdom in knowing precisely what to say, there is also wisdom in knowing when not to say it.

Re:More to communicatio than being right (5, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661872)

Not only is there wisdom in knowing precisely what to say, there is also wisdom in knowing when not to say it.

The time to make the statement is while it is relevant. You wait until the initial storm dies down, and then you start your own. And it is critical that we receive this message — not you and I, maybe, but as many of the wide-eyed legions of Apple as can be reached. Because what Apple represents is precisely the same thing that Microsoft or Sony represents: a dearth of choice. Stallman might be an egotistical ass, but he is certainly the foremost champion of the rights of the user. Some programmers don't like that, so they don't like the GPL, and they don't like Free Software. They call it a virus and they would prefer to stamp it out rather than have to deal with something so confusing.

Other people can make the same point in a month, and a year, and reach other audiences, but this point needs to be made now and it needs to be made well. Stallman has done both.

Stallman: Hypocrite (-1)

Tufriast (824996) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661674)

What I see in Stallman here is total hypocrisy. Stallman wants us to use software the way he and his flock want us to use software. Steve Jobs wanted us to use software the way he and his flock used software. What I think Stallman, in his myopic viewpoint, is trying to state is: "I'm pissed off I was not as successful or appreciated. This is my rant on it." It is with that sort of chaotic thought train, and also because there were too many chiefs and not enough indians, is why I stepped back from a lot of FOSS. Rapidly.

Re:Stallman: Hypocrite (3, Insightful)

ShadowRangerRIT (1301549) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661848)

Stallman wants people to provide software in the way he and his flock want it provided. How people use it is irrelevant. His point is that in an open ecosystem, people can choose to use software however they like, whether it's by connecting to monolithic vertically integrated software stacks or by striking out on their own. Apple didn't provide the choice; if you wanted Apple UI, you had to buy into Apple's whole product line, because you had no other options, particularly on their mobile devices.

Re:Stallman: Hypocrite (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661928)

That's absurd. I'm not saying that Stallman is right on everything, in fact I think he can be kind of a nut most of the time, but this criticism has absolutely no basis in anything that has actually been said by Stallman. Richard Stallman wants us to be able to do what we want to do on our own machines. He wants freedom, unrestricted use. AUTHENTIC freedom, not that "freedom from apps that trash your phone" nonsense. All the while Steve Jobs was constantly looking for new ways to restrict the user. How on earth do you go from that to "Stallman wants us to do it his way, Jobs wants us to do it his way, they're just two different sides of the same coin"? My gosh, on your reasoning, every single revolution, every single political change is completely trivial.

Re:Stallman: Hypocrite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661974)

"I'm pissed off I was not as successful or appreciated"

That's the deal in a nutshell. Jobs gave the world what it wanted. RMS did not. End of story.

Guilty of frankness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661676)

Fair enough. For over 30 years Stallman has fought for our freedom to choose and modify the software we use in our machines, while Jobs has fought against it.

Dear Mr Stallman (2, Insightful)

Quick Reply (688867) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661684)

You don't have to have liked him, but you could have at least shown some respect rather than making the GNU (And by association, Linux, even though we hate you) community look like tools, instead of just yourself as you usually do.

Re:Dear Mr Stallman (0)

StuartHankins (1020819) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661940)

+9000 Insightful. Sheesh I'm embarrassed by Stallman.

Stallman is out of line (-1)

StuartHankins (1020819) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661688)

Stallman has done many things to help the free software movement, and I appreciate those efforts. HOWEVER, the more I learn about the man and the more he talks, the more I wish he'd just shut up. He's sounding more and more like those church kooks who try to bait people (I don't wish to give them more press so am omitting their name).

He's way beyond troll (troll cubed? With Stallman, more like "troll rounded"), time to let the vitriol rest.

Re:Stallman is out of line (1)

ACS Solver (1068112) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661924)

Stallman helped the free software movement and a lot, and 30 years ago, was perhaps one of the best people who could be at the forefront of it all. Today, with everyone using computers in some form, everything software-related receives publicity and attention. This is why Stallman, in the 21st century, is one of the worst possible mouthpieces for the free software movement.

Most things he says reinforce the strange nerd stereotype. RMS doesn't care, of course. But his speeches and articles are somewhat "out there", he tends to ignore social norms and customs. And to the world's non-nerd population, it just gives the impression that free software is for socially inept bearded types.

Stallman's ideal vision of a world where every user is a programmer that reprograms their devices at will isn't happening for too many reasons to list. And in today's reality, for free software to advance, the movement could really do with another mouthpiece. Someone who can speak to the masses in a way that suits them, showing how free software is superior for practical reasons (not ideological ones), and someone who can break the perception that only big multibillion companies produce software that are fit for the average person to use.

Great no-hype article on techdirt about Jobs (2, Informative)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661704)

Jobs may have helped bring about some significant technologies. But Apple, and Jobs, come no where near what the fanboys think. And in many respects, Jobs was just another scam artist.

http://techrights.org/2011/10/07/steve-jobs/

Where's the full text? (2)

Trevelyan (535381) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661714)

The link given on /. and latimes leads to a bullet point list of posts. The anchor jumps you to Stallman's Oct 6 bullet point, but I can't find the a link to the full article?!

http://stallman.org/archives/2011-jul-oct.html#06_October_2011_(Steve_Jobs) [stallman.org]

What did I miss?

Sorry to say it... (5, Insightful)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661720)

... but I agree with stallman. Jobs figured out that you can make aesthetically pleasing stuff and make a lot of profit off simplifying hardware design for everyday people BUT this has a negative effect on those who actually use computers and computing devices as something beyond a toaster or glorified television. Jobs just turned computing devices into consumer items. The downside is that his companies success with walled gardens is giving a lot of other companies and developers the same idea of creating walled gardens where you never own anything, can't modify it, etc. A kind of kind of feudalistic computing.

I've watched gaming go downhill over the last 10 years with the rise shit like world of warcraft showing everyone the path to walled garden land because there are enough stupid people who don't give a shit about gaming that will just take it up the ass because they aren't passionate about games. So we get things like Starcraft 2 chained to online, no LAN, we get permanent online DRM being pushed and crap like onlive. At this point I really want to burn down the software industry. I remember a time when blizzard wasn't as evil as it is today and you actually were treated like a customer rather then a magpie with a wallet.

In the same way, people who work in computing, and do computing and are passionate about computing need freedom from corporate tyranny to innovate. Each generation of tinkering kids becomes the next set of developers/entrepreneurs/innovators. To lock everything behind a walled garden just creates a big mess and ensures solutions are suffocated or co-opted for someones personal greed with a net negative for humanity as a whole.

All great innovations are built upon mountains of others that came before them, locking them down is just a surefire way to suffocate progress.

Re:Sorry to say it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661894)

I totally agree as well. In fact, I kept thinking on how to carefully write the same thing on my blog (before reading Stallman's post) and not attract the attention like this. Stallman's words are the most careful and unhurting way you can express such a thought.

Hear hear. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661740)

I was repulsed by the sickening display of sycophancy and arse-licking hagiography that spewed out of every orifice of the media last week and was glad to see someone redress the balance.

RMS offers a dissenting view on x. AKA Monday. (1)

PhyrePhox (218873) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661748)

I'm not Jobs' defender, but it seems to me that, as a society, we seem to want our heroes to be perfect (or at least to conform to our ideas of "right"-ness), and a lot of contention about legacy revolves around discussion of whether these folks "deserve" to be lauded. There was a book last year that implied that Ghandi was a homosexual. Which, of course, caused a real outcry in India, but to my point: who cares? Mr. Jobs had a child that he allegedly denied for many years; as a family man, that offends me much more than his complicity in the Foxconn suicides. Now there I am, projecting my values on him; but as far as I can tell, he wasn't required to follow my guidelines for living. Can we agree that those of us who use computers or portable music players or smartphones, or those of us who take our kids to see CG movies have been influenced by his work? I personally think I would have hated working for him, but I used products from his company every day.

Passed on. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661758)

Steve Jobs, inventor of the color white and creator of minimalist design died last week. Steve was reported to have conceived, designed and personally build every piece of hardware produced by Apple. Good night sweet prince.

So much for tact... (0)

DynamoJoe (879038) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661770)

I suppose Stallman's just being a dick (or an attention whore). Used to be we at least pretended to be respectful of the dead for a little while.... but not any more, not when there's column-inches to appropriate.

Re:So much for tact... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661954)

Used to be we at least pretended to be respectful of the dead for a little while...

Crocodile tears only impress lunch.

Stallman who? (-1, Flamebait)

CyberSnyder (8122) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661778)

Jobs made an impact, Stallman just bitches and whines all the time. I talked to a guy that picked him up at the airport and Stallman bitched at the guy for using his credit card to fill up the tank instead of cash. They can track you with your credit card. Compare emacs with the shiny toys Jobs made and I think we see who comes out on top.

Re:Stallman who? (1)

c0l0 (826165) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661850)

Agreed! With the last part of your posting, that is: emacs, hands down. :)

Pixar (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661790)

Frankly, I'm no slave to an operating system. I switch OSes with abandon. In fact, as much as I think that Stallman is a zealot, he deserves more credit than Jobs or Gates in enabling me to switch OSes with abandon.

Stallman is right regarding Jobs & operating systems, especially the iOS.

In all of the news about Jobs' life, what surprised me is that most of his wealth is from Pixar / Disney. Although Disney is far and away no friend of Stallman's (and it's surprising RMS didn't mention *that*), Pixar has inspired many with the potential for what computers could do. George Lucas, ILM, and others have skimmed the surface, but Pixar made real CGI magic. Liberating Pixar from Lucas was a real coup.

The pantheon of computer leaders is big enough to include RMS, Gates, Jobs, and many others, each with their contributions and deficits. Jobs had many deficits, certainly - but there are few who are notable in this world who can be solely deficient without any accomplishments, just as there are few of accomplishment who lack any deficits.

Back to work on my two non-Apple OSes...

I am increasingly of the view (1)

Presto Vivace (882157) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661960)

that Stallman is correct, living in freedom requires that we use free software. On the other hand, this is being written on a Mac iBook.

ACK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661828)

Absolute agree with Mr. Stallman.

A respectful rebuttal... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661832)

While I respect Richard Stallman's perspective, I respectfully disagree.

Steve Jobs, through Apple's rigorous control and single-minded development of its own "walled garden" ecosystem of software and hardware, has demonstrated that a company with a will and a vision can provide a valuable, innovative solution that is affordable, functional, desirable, and that still protects its progenitor's interests in profiting from their own labor. I see nothing inherently evil in that.

I do not agree that all software should be free. I believe that we should have the *option* of making it free, and protecting that freedom, and that, I believe, is where Mr. Stallman has made his greatest contribution - the GPL. Through the original GNU Manifesto, the tireless efforts of the EFF and Mr. Stallman's leadership in preserving that vision, a vibrant, thriving community of open source and always-free solutions exist. But the software is free, and remains free, by the will and choice of its maker.

To me, this does not invalidate the other option - that one can choose to protect and license technology solutions, deriving the same protections of copyright that the GPL provides to open source software. Mr. Jobs proved, beyond any reasonable expectation, that a corporate steward can do a very, very good job of creating and maintaining desirable technology solutions. Others do as well. Both models of thought deserve a place in the market.

RIP, Steve. Keep on fighting, Richard. You both to us all great justice.

LEB

Re:A respectful rebuttal... (1)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661956)

affordable, functional, desirable

Two out of three ain't bad.

(I'm a reasonably well paid programmer who owns a Mac Mini, and would rather enjoy having a grown-up Mac but can't justify the cost.)

Its time... (2)

Luthair (847766) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661836)

for ReadWriteWeb to find a new editor, one that doesn't pander to fanboys

Steve Jobs was also in part responsible for a lot of bad, remember the Foxconn worker 'suicide'? Or how about suing journalists? Or hiring security that pretended to be police? Or requiring employees submit to searches or be fired?

steve jobs, the god of the slashdot massive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661838)

some mentally ill slashdotter (arent most of them?) is going to put out a hit on this guy.

I actually saw someone refer to him as the da vinci of our generation! jobs had a hitler-esque way of giving people a shit sandwich and convincing them to finish it off and lick their fingers.

For all you Stallman haters... (1)

kvvbassboy (2010962) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661840)

ESR was also basically of the same opinion [ibiblio.org] . Except he sugar coats the whole thing, to be politically correct.

Tact is unfortunately overrated.

I'm with Stallman on this. (5, Insightful)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661842)

Stallman is an asshole.

With that out of the way, he speaks true. I abandoned everything Apple for exactly the reasons he pointed out and I hope, as Stallman does, that Apple will become less anally retentive in the future.

Stallman is that guy who takes his job way to seriously. He loses touch with reality, he loses friends, his only friends are those with the same goals, but he even dismisses them for not being as committed as he is. In the end Stallman does the real work needed by the FOSS movement, he benefits the movement greatly, however he's like the overnight shift in a 24 hour production facility. Often the very best workers are on the overnight shift, not because you don't want the secrets to their efficiency accidentally leaked to someone passing through, but because the most talented people are often such eccentric weirdo's you only want the results of their work seen, not the workers themselves.

That last article condemning Stallman was just completely out of tune with the man himself. He wasn't hateful towards Job's himself, Stallman has a goal in mind and he wont rest until it's accomplished. He will never accomplish it. His goal of all software being 100% open source, patent free, and free in every way will never happen, and it's one of the places I differ with him. I support someones right to make money off of software, I do agree FOSS is the way to go and I do think even closed source software should eventually become open, but I do support someone closing source for a time to make a profit, and this is where I disagree with Stallman, who I see as an Old Testament Prophet of the Open Code.

Stallman tells it like it is (4, Insightful)

FridayBob (619244) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661844)

Just because Jobs was innovative, popular and successful doesn't mean he was a saint. Considering his closed hardware platforms, Jobs showed us that his views were perhaps even more the antithesis of the FOSS movement than those of Mr. Bill.

This is one time I actually agree with Stallman (1)

pem (1013437) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661870)

I can understand why some might be "asking the Free Software movement to find a new voice."

But if that happens because of this particular outspokenness, that might be yet another correct course of action taken for completely the wrong reason.

Under the shadow of iPhones (5, Funny)

lucm (889690) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661884)

> His statement has spurred reaction from the community; some even asking to the Free Software movement to find a new voice.

I agree with them. Furthermore, I propose that anyone making fun of Steve Jobs in a cartoon should be stoned with bricked iPhones. Don't let the Infidels smear the name of The Prophet. Inch' Apple.

while not surprised, what an embarrassment. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661900)

Stallman really should have a bit more couth than that. In particular, this close to his death.

Why do FOSS spokespeople lack common sense? (2)

guanxi (216397) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661906)

What is it about FOSS that inspires such blind arrogance that they shoot themselves in the foot? Stallman is hurting his cause, just as a Mozilla employee recently hurt their cause -- by feeling and expressing contempt for those who don't share their vision, and by lacking respect, decency, maturity, and basic business sense.

Unfortunately it raises doubts about the competency of some FOSS organizations. If they don't have the understanding to respect other points of view, or the sense to do simple things in their own self-interest, who can rely on them?

I strongly support FOSS. It depresses me that so many leaders needlessly damage the cause.

RMS' way? (0)

mveloso (325617) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661908)

If RMS had his way, we'd all be using command lines with obscure syntax. And we'd still be waiting for HURD.

The FSF has co-opted the idea that software should be free (free as in unencumbered), but that idea was around before the FSF. Just look at the Bill Gates piracy letter way back when - he wrote that in response to the rampant piracy of the era.

The thing that the FSF gave the world was a compiler and toolchain that had decent performance, was free (as in you didn't have to license it), and was retargetable. They also created a legal framework that formalized the idea of unencumbered software - which probably is going to be their most important contribution to the software world.

What I personally remember about RMS/the FSF back in the day (vis-a-vis Apple) is that they were pissed that Apple refused to kiss their collective asses and give them free stuff/donations/technical support. I also specifically remember the FSF bad-mouthing and dropping their non-existent 'support' Apple during the Apple/MS copyright suit, while supporting Intel/x86 even though Intel was suing AMD for copyright of the x86 instruction set.

The FSF: you can't love them, you can't shoot them.

Funny Stuff (0)

Wovel (964431) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661936)

Ironic that most people doing meaningful work in free software will be glad when RS is gone. Stallman is one of the most negative forces on computing in general and free software in particular.

Faux outrage (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37661950)

LA Times says "some critics" but really only link to one guy, former Slashdot editor, Joe "Zonker" Brockmeier. Another one of Stallman's critics who doesn't have the balls to actually state what really bothers him about Stallman, but sleazily uses any fake controversy as an excuse to launch a discrediting smear against RMS. If you really want to know why RMS gets attacked by some of these so-called FOSS advocates, just examine RMS's other political postings on his website. It'll become apparent.

Would We Be Where We Are Now? (0)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 2 years ago | (#37661976)

I'm not sure we'd be where we are now in Stallman's world. Say what you will about Jobs and Gates, they DID bring general purpose computing to the masses and it DID change the world. Maybe someone would have risen up had they not been here, but they'd have been just as bad. And if no one had, we'd all be using text-mode EMACS on a HURD kernel. Well except this would be a netnews forum and there'd be a lot fewer people on it.
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