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NATO Exercise Banned From Jamming GPS

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the no-jamming-zone dept.

Security 260

judgecorp writes "A major NATO exercise off the coast of Scotland has been ordered to stop using GPS jamming technology after complaints that to do so would endanger the lives of fishermen and disrupt civilian mobile phones. The exercise — called 'Joint Warrior' — planned to disrupt GPS for 20 miles around each warship"

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Lads, they've taken our GPS...get 'em (4, Funny)

syousef (465911) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697666)

"I am William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen, here in defiance of tyranny! You have come to fight as free men. And free man you are! What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?” Two thousand against ten?” – the veteran shouted. No! We will run – and live!” Yes!” Wallace shouted back. Fight and you may die. Run and you will live WITHOUT GPS at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance, to come back here as young men and GET A SATELLITE LOCK? Tell our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take our GPS SIGNAL!”

fake it (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37697670)

why not fake it?
just turn off the red teams GPS's when their with in 20mi of a warship, problem solved.

Re:fake it (1, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697838)

Isn't that sorta like testing a bullet proof vest by using blanks?

Re:fake it (4, Informative)

digitalchinky (650880) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697980)

Not at all. The effect jamming has on GPS is already well established and can be reliably reproduced in a lab/classroom environment - the receivers mostly just cease to work. Also nothing screams "I am exactly right here" quite like a jammer does, any half decent rack of ELINT gear will locate it within a very short space of time.

The parent is correct.

Re:fake it (-1, Offtopic)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698012)

Shush, I'm trying to get the word 'Informative' next to my post!

Re:fake it (1, Insightful)

Ferzerp (83619) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698158)

Then actually be informative?

Re:fake it (3, Informative)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698182)

Did you see his sig?

Re:fake it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698254)

On this site?

Re:fake it (1)

jtownatpunk.net (245670) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698210)

Sounds like finding GPS jammers would be a good part of the exercise.

Re:fake it (3, Insightful)

wvmarle (1070040) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698304)

A major military exercise... and they do not close those waters for the week or two these drills last?

Civilian ships should stay the hell out of there. Stay well away from those war ships, they're in exercise, and may perform unpredictable maneuvers. There may be small craft out there. Projectiles flying around.

If a ship comes within GPS jammed range then they're way too close to begin with I'd say. Yes this may cause some inconvenience to some fishermen or other seamen, but the ocean is big. Plenty of other places to sail to.

The best part (1)

koan (80826) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697678)

You can target the jammers =) like a great glowing radio beacon.

Re:The best part (4, Funny)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697684)

Play nice... don't HARM the jammers!

Re:The best part (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37697722)

cute

Re:The best part (1)

adolf (21054) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697720)

You can target the jammers =) like a great glowing radio beacon.

Brilliant! That's right up there in brutal effectiveness and ironic technological failure with my notion (which I really should get around to patenting some day...) of using RFID-enabled passports to ensure that autonomous IEDs only target specific nationalities.

(The lesson for today, kids, is this: The more you fuck with things, the more of a target you become.)

Re:The best part (1)

koan (80826) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697766)

I am thinking quad rotor autonomous with HE and targeted via cell signal or in the case of the well protected, targets IR sig, body odor, retina, or a variety of other giveaways.
( right in your bedroom window MoFo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRTALJp8DM [youtube.com] )

But I really like the targeting mode of your idea and frankly it seems easier to implement.

Re:The best part (1)

adolf (21054) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698000)

I like your cell phone targeting system. Traditionally, GSM and CDMA were kind of hard to get into, but kids these days are doing a lot better with those systems using software-defined radios (and I imagine proper military gear can do even better with a set of apt and well-paid hands making it work).

Both the RFID and GPS jammer concepts are very simple, and that's always a plus for basic munitions.

With cell phones, though: Just plant a flying widget (could be a quadrocopter or a conventional drone or an orbiting B-52 or whatever) up there somehow, armed with the ESN of the target's phone, triangulate the signal as it flies (easy), and either hit it surgically once it shows up outside[1] or non-surgically[2] no matter where it's at.

It's more complicated, but it has the advantage of mobility.

[1]: A rifle and some (these days) primitive image recognition software combined with the vast difference in signal strength between indoor and outdoor phones gets this done neatly enough, without direct human intervention.

[2]: Carpet bombing, bunker busters, whatever. The US military knows how to level entire city blocks with ease when that's a desirable outcome, and such a system will ensure that only the correct city block becomes turns into debris.

Re:The best part (1)

koan (80826) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698216)

If they can solve the one problem with robots that I see, which is power supply, then terminators and other horrors (and joys) we have seen in the movies will be a cake walk.
  I'm not so sure it's a good thing, but I could sit around all day devising these situations, I just love it.

What? (1)

schroedingers_hat (2449186) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697682)

Surely these people shouldn't be staking their lives on the GPS system. It's one of our most reliable machines (the most reliable I know of), but even still, it could go down some time. What happened to being able to read a chart, keeping a sextant on-board, triangulating your position with a compass, and all the other skills people used to be taught? Also can someone explain why phones need GPS for their operation. Do 3g/4g services require the phone's location to more precision than the tower can provide? Is there no fallback to some lower bandwidth mode?

Re:What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37697736)

Large parts of the world used to have LORAN-C as a backup system. Basically impossible to jam because of the very powerful land based transmitters, and while not as accurate as GPS, still very useful.

Of course, it's been shut down in the US because it's "too expensive", although the cost of running it was neglible. People are insanely stupid.

Some info: LORAN-C [wikipedia.org] .

Re:What? (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697862)

I remember my dad teaching me how to use it on our sailboat. Was pretty neat for the 1970's. Plus you got to see if your dead reckoning was any good or not.

Re:What? (1)

Iphtashu Fitz (263795) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697876)

Basically impossible to jam because of the very powerful land based transmitters

Any signal can be jammed, and LORAN has its own weaknesses. A simple jamming or disruption of the signal from a master station would effectively disable LORAN across a huge geographic area. And given that they're ground based, it would be trivial to drive a truck into an antenna tower, blow it up with a small amount of explosives, etc.

Re:What? (4, Funny)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697740)

Surely these people shouldn't be staking their lives on the GPS system. It's one of our most reliable machines (the most reliable I know of), but even still, it could go down some time. What happened to being able to read a chart, keeping a sextant on-board, triangulating your position with a compass, and all the other skills people used to be taught?

Surely these people shouldn't be staking their lives on mechanical navigation equipment. They're some of our most reliable machines (the most reliable I know of), but even still, charts can be inaccurate, sextants can rust, and compasses can break. What happened to dead reckoning, estimating your position by the taste of the water, keeping an eye out for towns on shore, and all the other skills people used to be taught?

Re:What? (1)

MarkvW (1037596) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697762)

Redundancy.

Re:What? (2)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698032)

This happens to be my field of expertise, where I can post a detailed technical comment and get a plus-five, but the dumb, uninspired circle-jerk of Slashdot discourages me from doing so because it's all a bunch of fake redundant sockpuppet bullshit.

No wonder why Taco left. He could've done the right thing and killed his baby at its prime, like Bill Watterson did to his, but taco jumped ship after his baby jumped the shark - and let it fester at the hands of a couple of high school-level retarded kids and a clueless Jew masquerading as "editors."

The majority of you are droll, boring, redundant fucks. If at least one of you posted something profound, I might feel the need to make this discussion and others a better place. Where is the anonymous coward who says the word "Nigger?" He's the only reason why I still visit this damn place.

Re:What? (1)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698124)

Lay off of kettle, pot. You're not adding anything with your 'slashdot sucks, it's just an echo chamber, no wonder Taco left' redundancy. You're not original or insightful either. The only difference is that you parrot negatives because you think that makes you edgy. Well zzzzzzzzzzz.

Re:What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698356)

Come on, people should know better and NOT FEED TROLLS.

Re:What? (1)

spazzmo (743767) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698178)

Don't bother doing so any more. No-one will miss you.

Re:What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698376)

At least you're not a trollbot, you kike.

Re:What? (1)

schroedingers_hat (2449186) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697812)

Sure, they should learn that, too. At least enough so they aren't likely to die if their sextant breaks while the GPS is down.

Re:What? (1)

cynyr (703126) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697882)

but what will they do when GPS is down, the sextant is broken, and it is foggy out??!

Re:What? (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698062)

Triangulate using the buoy bells and fog horns?

Re:What? (1)

bky1701 (979071) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698112)

Time to hone their psychic abilities!

Re:What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698030)

Nice one!

It always amuses me when I encounter wannabe "Old Salts" who whine about those who sail with "modern toys".

These guys love to drone on about how "Captain Cook didn't need those things, and if it was good enough for Captain Cook, it's good enough for us!"...all the while ignoring the fact that the sailors of Cook's day would literally have murdered you to get that gear.

It's as if these assclowns believe that Cook et al would have said no to GPS, Sat phones, RADAR, VHF comms and all the rest, because it wasn't "real sailing" or some shit like that.

Re:What? (1)

muon-catalyzed (2483394) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698038)

GPS could get damaged. A massive solar flare could jam GPS, near earth meteor shover could damage or deorbit some satellites etc.

Re:What? (5, Informative)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697760)

What happened to being able to read a chart, keeping a sextant on-board, triangulating your position with a compass, and all the other skills people used to be taught?

The innumerable shipwrecks dotting the shores of the British Isles over the centuries suggest that GPS navigation might be a bit more foolproof than those methods.

Re:What? (1)

schroedingers_hat (2449186) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697834)

Well, I wouldn't rely on the sextant over the GPS, but I'd want to know how to use it just in case (or some other method that is likely to work when the GPS is down).

While the chances of the GPS going down are fairly close to zero, consumer electronics are less reliable.

Re:What? (4, Insightful)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697934)

I wouldn't depend solely on GPS either, but that doesn't mean that it's a good idea to *intentionally* disable GPS and force people to use less reliable and rarely practiced methods, even if they all know how to use them.

Re:What? (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698194)

Well, if they're in real trouble without GPS, I guess many (most?) would have SARSAT beacons.

Re:What? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37697836)

Massive WOOSH.

Re:What? (2)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697912)

Massive WOOSH.

Is that supposed to be the last sound you hear after your ship hits the rocks and the water is rushing in over your head?

Re:What? (3, Informative)

GumphMaster (772693) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697770)

What happened to being able to read a chart, keeping a sextant on-board, triangulating your position with a compass, and all the other skills people used to be taught?

They still are taught (certainly to military navigators), but these techniques are only useful for relatively coarse navigation. Fine to get your boat home to port, but not very useful to accurately locate a particular crab pot, trawl a particular area while avoiding no-go zones or known obstructions, hold station over an dive site, oil or gas well head etc.

Re:What? (1)

schroedingers_hat (2449186) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697848)

There's a fairly wide gulf between being inconvenienced/having to stop what you are doing and having your life be at risk.
Shouldn't no-go zones and known obstructions still have markers or buoys of some kind (or at least be marked on a chart so you know to head in the opposite direction)?

Re:What? (2)

GumphMaster (772693) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697994)

Failing to hold station above divers in a diving bell potentially adds life threatening risk but is not likely to cause injury without other factors. On the whole I agree, this is an inconvenience not a threat.

Fishing area boundaries are charted but not typically physically marked and GPS is used by the vessel to maintain licence compliance, and fishery management agencies to monitor compliance. Buoys work in shallow water only and even a fully functional Royal Navy ship can hit charted rocks [professionalmariner.com] :).

Re:What? (1)

rcw-home (122017) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697820)

While I agree that all captains (whether you're on a teeny little sailboat or a SuezMax container ship) should know how to use their fallbacks, I think that disabling GPS during military exercises is going to increase the probability that innocent civilians are going to accidentally encroach on those military ships during those same exercises. Seems like a bad idea.

For the most part, the cell phone networks don't need GPS to operate. Just knowing the location wouldn't be good enough for signal beamforming anyway because of all the multipath in urban environments. It's often the other way around - GPS location information is often provided by the towers to the phones. The phones use that info (whether acquired via real GPS or cell phone network assisted GPS) for E911 and for whatever smartphone apps want it. However, CDMA *does* need *very* precise time synchronization to work - and this is usually implemented via GPS receivers on each tower [navy.mil] .

Re:What? (1)

rockout (1039072) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697840)

How did all of you miss his (satirically stated) point? Was it too obvious when he word-for-word parodied the GP's post? Jeezus. News for nerds, my ass.

Re:What? (1)

rcw-home (122017) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698008)

Is it possible that you meant to reply to a child of this comment [slashdot.org] instead of to my comment?

Re:What? (2)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697910)

If you go to sea depending on GPS you're an idiot. If you go to sea without GPS, yourte an idiot. You shouldn't depend on it, but it does make things safer.

Re:What? (1)

scdeimos (632778) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697966)

It's not just phones and satnavs. Plenty of embedded systems use GPS not only for location, but as a time source. There'll no doubt be plenty of traffic lights and speed/red light cameras having weird behaviour due to the lack of a decent GPS signal.

Re:What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698026)

Emergency services need the location to send response teams to the caller. GPS is useful for producing that data. Deriving the location without may be slower and more resource intensive. As in needing multiple towers triangulating a single phone.

Re:What? (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698396)

Map, compass, sextant? Likely as dead as map and compass land nav skills...

I'm a "Joint Warrior" too! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37697718)

Funny, I get exactly the same sort of goofy-ass ideas when *I* engage in operation "Joint Warrior". ;)

God says (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37697742)

God says, "thieve stayed foreshowed transitory eagle's Abraham's leaden
rectify don't_count_on_it recommended University Afghanistan "

C:\TEXT\DARWIN.TXT

e. When the differences are rather more strongly marked,
and when both sexes and all ages are affected, the forms are ranked by all
entomologists as good species. But no observer can determine for another,
even if he can do so for himself, which of these Phytophagic forms ought to
be called species and which varieties. Mr. Walsh ranks the forms which it
may be supposed would freely intercross, as varieties; and those which
appear to have lost this power, as species. As the differences depend on

But (3, Interesting)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697792)

Will it jam GLONASS?

GPS funding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37697794)

If GPS is no longer a military tool, perhaps the cost of the satellites and the global infrastructure that supports the GOS utility should no longer be funded out of US military accounts.

Re:GPS funding (1)

SlayerofGods (682938) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697802)

Yah but then we wouldn't be allowed to pull it any time we want for whatever reason we want....

Re:GPS funding (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698080)

Are we not reading the titles of the articles any more?

Weird? (2)

SlayerofGods (682938) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697798)

Why do we need an exercise to jam our own satellites? Shouldn't they be practicing jamming GLONASS or something?

Re:Weird? (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697858)

Why do we need an exercise to jam our own satellites?

One of the first precepts in defense is knowing what vulnerabilities your systems have.
"How do we operate without freely available GPS?" would be one of those.

Re:Weird? (1)

SlayerofGods (682938) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697918)

Yah but you can test that by turning it off.....
I mean to simulate an attack on the base you don't actually need to drop bombs on it.

Re:Weird? (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698092)

not if what you want to practice is the countermeasures themselves. You can't track a GPS jamming signal without having a jamming signal to track...

You can simulate it with other bands, but the equipment is not quite the same, so you won't get the same practice. At some point you have to do the real thing.

Re:Weird? (4, Insightful)

subreality (157447) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697880)

It's not to practice jamming... it's to practice operating when the Bad Guys are doing the jamming.

Re:Weird? (1)

MikeUW (999162) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698052)

I'm not sure I agree. If it was to practice what happens when the enemy is jamming your GPS, then did any of these geniuses just think to turn the bloody things off, and simply pretend the enemy is jamming them?

Re:Weird? (4, Interesting)

subreality (157447) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698132)

1, There are are a whole lot of GPSes involved. It's a lot more than a nav unit on the bridge, and they don't all share a single off-switch.

2, You don't want to practice "OK, everyone turn off your GPS now and switch to plan B!". You want to practice "Why are we drifting to starboard? Is this an instrumentation failure? WTF is ERROR 7505?", because that's how it happens when you're doing it for real and you need to learn to work through that kind of confusion.

Re:Weird? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698242)

"What is KERNEL_MODE_EXCEPTION 0x0000005 and why is my screen now blue?"

"Because the ship systems were built by the lowest bidder. Now shut up and let the judges mark you as dead".

AC

Re:Weird? (1)

FatLittleMonkey (1341387) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698142)

They are presumably not testing how middies cope with no nav, they are testing how the equipment itself responds to local jamming. (And whether those middies can tell when their systems are in the jamming zone or not. Ie, how they cope with the cognitive dissonance of unreliable information.)

There's a big difference between "Okay, turn your nav screens off. We're doing a manual nav exercise today!" and dealing with nav systems which might be in error and which respond to signal jamming in different and random ways.

Re:Weird? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698282)

It's worth noting that submarines have automatic depth control, and it is better and faster than the best manual controllers, but most of the time they turn it off and make their crew keep in practice for when it doesn't work. They only turn it on when the seas get so wild they need the automatics.

Army tankers also practice all the time in modes where many of their automatic systems are deliberately switched off.

AC

Re:Weird? (1)

afidel (530433) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697936)

I'm sure the jammers are wide enough band (you'd have to try really for them to not be if they can jam a signal in a 400 mi^2 area) to block the nearby GLONASS signals (the L1 and L2 codes are carried on nearly adjacent frequencies by both systems and those are currently the only ones used for navigation). Btw Galileo and Compass also put their L1 and L2 (different names but same idea) in the 1.55-1.6 GHz range so they too would be jammed by a moderately wideband jammer, or heck probably just a Lightsquared tower =)

Not an exercise. (0)

Gravis Zero (934156) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697854)

An exercise is when you pretend something is happening and react according to instruction/protocol. Jamming GPS is kinda like breaking your sparing partners arm, completely uncalled for.

Re:Not an exercise. (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697898)

An exercise is when you pretend something is happening and react according to instruction/protocol.

Jamming the signal from the satellites is a completely viable situation. 'Train how you fight' is a core concept. And it would prevent any faking among line troops.

REST IN PEACE DENNIS RITCHIE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37697872)

REST IN PEACE DENNIS RITCHIE

(i'll use another post to say what i think about slashdot)

.mil or .not? (1)

dotmax (642602) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697894)

I thought gps was a military thing and that all that civvy stuff was just freeloading.

Re:.mil or .not? (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697956)

It is. GPS was originally created so that nuclear missile carrying submarines could know very quickly where they were launching their missiles from, in order to be able to compute the right trajectory. Of course its use has been expanded way beyond that to aircraft which use combined GPS/inertial navigation systems and of course now even munitions - JDAMs are "fire and forget" GPS-guided weapons that offer advantages over laser/tv guided bombs because they don't need a laser to be pointed at the target and don't care if there are clouds between the airplane and the target. And then there's the little device in your car.

Re:.mil or .not? (1)

Rich0 (548339) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698278)

Wouldn't relying on GPS in a nuclear war be a bit crazy unless you were planning a first strike? That is, unless you expect your GPS satellites to survive the first strike?

I would think that LEO would be EMP city not long into WWIII.

Of course, if the submarine updates its position periodically then it would have a moderately accurate fix to start with, but I can't imagine that INS is that reliable with the accuracy of modern ICBMs. Then again, don't ICBMs have star-finders or such built into them once they get outside the atmosphere? So, you really should only need a pretty general idea of your location to launch one...

Re:.mil or .not? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698010)

I thought gps was a taxpayer funded thing and that all that military stuff was just freeloading.

FTFY

Re:.mil or .not? (1)

aintnostranger (1811098) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698386)

well said

Walkers? (1)

Killer Instinct (851436) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697900)

From TFA ... jammed in a radius of 20 miles around the various warships............There have been even reportedly been complaints about the impact on walkers in certain affected area, since many now use GPS devices both for navigation, position finding and for reporting the location of accidents.

What, did Jesus call up and complain? who else would be out walking around within a 20 mile radius of the warships? wtf?

Re:Walkers? (1)

compro01 (777531) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698094)

The strength of jamming that will knock out military GPS receivers at 20 miles is likely to screw with less robust civilian gear significantly further away.

Re:Walkers? (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698106)

I'm pretty sure most warships can come within 20 miles of the coast of their own countries....

Ungrateful (1)

solareagle (892616) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697938)

The US military developed, launched, and maintains GPS for military purposes. They allow everyone else to use it for FREE. Now those same users are screaming because the people who PAID FOR GPS want to turn it off for a few days in a limited area. "How dare they stop providing us free service! We demand they continue providing us free, uninterrupted service!"

Re:Ungrateful (4, Insightful)

Scutter (18425) | more than 2 years ago | (#37697974)

The US military developed, launched, and maintains GPS for military purposes. They allow everyone else to use it for FREE. Now those same users are screaming because the people who PAID FOR GPS want to turn it off for a few days in a limited area. "How dare they stop providing us free service! We demand they continue providing us free, uninterrupted service!"

The US military didn't pay for it. I paid for it. I graciously allowed them to use my tax money to purchase it for their use with the strict instruction that it was also to made available for my own use.

I think maybe you forgot who works for whom.

Re:Ungrateful (1)

scdeimos (632778) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698002)

The British Royal Navy didn't pay a cent for GPS either. They're free-loaders interrupting the service to other free-loaders.

Re:Ungrateful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698004)

Or stop doing it and see exactly how quickly everyone will switch to the Russian or Chinese systems and tell you to take your attitude and shove it.

Re:Ungrateful (1)

muon-catalyzed (2483394) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698018)

Taxpayer funds were involved in building GPS, military is just another public service.

Re:Ungrateful (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698066)

Does this mean we're allowed to tap into NRO spy satellites and military communication satellites? After all, we paid for them. We should be able to use them as a public service!

But most don't even react to jamming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698076)

So, the point is most operators just "reboot" the receiver and never really react to the jamming... They need the practice, provided by an exercise, to understand that even though most problems in the real-world are just glitches, sometimes they ARE being attacked.... YES I know I'm using the word attacked loosely. They should take some steps to realized what's happening and then as the Marines would say adapt and overcome. BTW I'm totally drunk right now, take it easy on me!

Re:But most don't even react to jamming (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698140)

Well the entire practice is just a minor inconvenience, this is not some pleasure boat out on the lake trying to find the dock in the next town ... military ships that are not a flat out joke are still keeping charts and mapping their location out.

If your enemy is a small fishing boat with three random douches and a Vietnam era rocket launcher, your not really going to know anyway if its just some fishing boat or an attack, and by the time you do know, well its a little late to jam their tom-tom ...

This is really a throw back to cold war era tactics, where some superpower is coming to get you with a trillion dollar fleet, but again your not going to stop them, just maybe agervate them, and that type of warfare is really ~ 70 years old. Not that it could not happen in the future, but not that it is a difficult feat in the first place.

Lack of common sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698086)

Wouldn't it be simple enough to practice as if the enemy is jamming your GPS by... not using your GPS?
 

They've Jammed the GPS! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698116)

RASPBERRY!? There's only one man who would dare give me the raspberry...

LONESTAR.

Terrible location (1)

goodmanj (234846) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698146)

Seriously, guys. Off the coast of Scotland? Why not, say, here? [wikipedia.org]

Re:Terrible location (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698168)

how many ships are going to be in Ürümqi, Brazil, Papunya, Republic of the Congo, and South Dakota? Now how many ships are going to be near Scotland?

Island/coastal regions are bound to be a bit more sensitive about naval traffic than land locked ones.

Tis a no brainier really ...

Re:Terrible location (1)

fincan (989293) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698214)

Seriously, guys. Off the coast of Scotland? Why not, say, here? [wikipedia.org]

Because that would take too long and be to expensive for a shitload of ships to send to.

Re:Terrible location (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698298)

Well, for one thing, the NA in NATO stands for North Atlantic.

Easy solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698162)

Tell them to suck it up.
If they complain further turn selective availability back on to block out the entire region from all civilian receivers.
Its a free service donated by the united states, if you don't like it, don't use it. If its unavailable, don't complain unless you're paying for it.

Ah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698164)

So nice of NATO.

After participating in kill of more than 20k humans for the Defense Mapping Agency, such reprochment is gladly and greatly welcomed.

Dare I say, ... killing come easy, its ... not killing ... that is hard. Obama has not learned this fact.

--

The US owns the satellites (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37698166)

The US owns the satellites, how about turning a few of them off?

I think that would get the point across about who owns them really fast.

Re:The US owns the satellites (5, Informative)

kimvette (919543) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698202)

This is why:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System [wikipedia.org]

After Korean Air Lines Flight 007, carrying 269 people, was shot down in 1983 after straying into the USSR's prohibited airspace,[10] in the vicinity of Sakhalin and Moneron Islands, President Ronald Reagan issued a directive making GPS freely available for civilian use, once it was sufficiently developed, as a common good.[11] The first satellite was launched in 1989, and the 24th satellite was launched in 1994.

Initially, the highest quality signal was reserved for military use, and the signal available for civilian use was intentionally degraded ("Selective Availability", SA). This changed with President Bill Clinton ordering Selective Availability to be turned off at midnight May 1, 2000, improving the precision of civilian GPS from 100 meters (about 300 feet) to 20 meters (about 65 feet). The executive order signed in 1996 to turn off Selective Availability in 2000 was proposed by the US Secretary of Defense, William Perry, because of the widespread growth of differential GPS services to improve civilian accuracy and eliminate the US military advantage. Moreover, the US military was actively developing technologies to deny GPS service to potential adversaries on a regional basis.[12]

GPS is owned and operated by the United States Government as a national resource. Department of Defense (USDOD) is the steward of GPS. Interagency GPS Executive Board (IGEB) oversaw GPS policy matters from 1996 to 2004. After that the National Space-Based Positioning, Navigation and Timing Executive Committee was established by presidential directive in 2004 to advise and coordinate federal departments and agencies on matters concerning the GPS and related systems. The executive committee is chaired jointly by the deputy secretaries of defense and transportation. Its membership includes equivalent-level officials from the departments of state, commerce, and homeland security, the joint chiefs of staff, and NASA. Components of the executive office of the president participate as observers to the executive committee, and the FCC chairman participates as a liaison.

USDOD is required by law to "maintain a Standard Positioning Service (as defined in the federal radio navigation plan and the standard positioning service signal specification) that will be available on a continuous, worldwide basis," and "develop measures to prevent hostile use of GPS and its augmentations without unduly disrupting or degrading civilian uses."

Drone Killer (1)

Megaflux (1803738) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698180)

Anybody knows how that Jamming affects a Drone? Aren't they mainly running on GPS? I'm definitely no expert, but just curious.

Navigation at sea (2, Informative)

SpaghettiPattern (609814) | more than 2 years ago | (#37698248)

Navigation at sea isn't that straight forward. You have to take into account the magnetic declination, the magnetic deviation of the compass on the ship, corrections for wind and current. And then comes the different chart type you have to know. And the tides, yes, the tides. And that's about it...

I recently studied all of this and passed the theoretic exam. Hey, I want to be a seaman.

The practice is somewhat different. You take GPS for granted. You also take the plotter for granted. And the collision warning thingy that goes beeeeep.

I wouldn't be surprised if a disruption of GPS actually will kill people. And I don't blame GPS but the able navigators that probably aren't.
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