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Shady Reshipping Centers Exposed

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the shady-shipping-containers-make-cool-houses dept.

Crime 143

Dynamoo writes "Ever wondered how criminals can spirit away the products they buy with stolen credit cards? The answer is that they use surprisingly sophisticated but very shady reshipping centers to launder the goods on their way to Eastern Europe. The bad guys make the money, but it's the mules doing the reshipping who will eventually get caught."

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Of course (0)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700452)

"Socialize risk, privatize profit" works well in the underworld too. If you're on the right end of the deal.

Blame big corporations. Really (3)

Ptur (866963) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700540)

Reshipping centers only exist because some big corporations refuse to sell their goods to the whole world, causing people to look for ways to pretend to be in the US so they can order the stuff.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37700578)

With good reason!

Lagos Nigeria = fraud center direct. Look up scam baiting. You'll see some lulz.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37700634)

Yea because those evil big corporations should be FORCED to deal with customs, duties, fraud, and export laws for *every* country. You'd be surprised how many idiotic consumers reverse credit card charges after getting nailed by their own countries duties.

Get a clue, drop the bizarre entitlement.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701310)

Indeed. Entitlement to profit has been the bane of the world since the '80s.

Capitalism isn't about deserving or entitlement. It's about putting in / paying the least necessary to get what you want. That's how a market works and supposedly optimises things.

Then Reagan and Thatcher came along and decided to go back to the days of the Dishonourable East India Company where trade was actually just corporation rule. Government and common property from the water company to the radio spectrum were privatised and regulated to line the pockets of friends of the powers that be. Ministers themselves were handsomely thanked. I used to think Thatcher's tobacco industry appointments were bad but she's an idealistic saint when compared to Blair in the Middle East.

Oh well, you all voted for 'em.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1, Insightful)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700636)

Er, one of the most fundamental rights you have as the owner of a company is determining where and to whom your goods will be sold. I fail to see why thats "blame-worthy"; why should a vendor be forced to sell to you?

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (2)

rabidmuskrat (1070962) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700666)

He never said anything about forcing the companies to do anything. He just stated how the reshipping centers came about.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (3, Insightful)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700796)

Because it often involves price discrimination, restrictions on free trade or trying to prevent your customers from re-selling their property which is detrimental to a free market.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

bryan1945 (301828) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700850)

Well the price discrimination may have something to do with tariffs and the like. Free trade restrictions tend to be a government thing. No comment on the re-selling thing.
But you really didn't answer why a vendor should not be able to refuse to do business with you. If a known drug dealer, but with no criminal record, wants to buy some guns off of you, does that mean you HAVE TO sell him the guns?

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

Serpents (1831432) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700948)

Well the price discrimination may have something to do with tariffs and the like.

Nope, at least in EU you pay all import taxes etc. if you order something in the US or Canada.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701236)

Depends how you use it and what you use it for.

It could fall under the heading of anti-competitive practices if it's part of a setup to allow price fixing or if you refuse to deal with a vendor in an attempt to reduce competition in the marketplace or if it involves as can sometimes be the case, dividing territories where you keep out of an area because of a deal with a local company in exchange for them not moving on your market.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37700906)

Do you even know the term "free market" means? Because it really doesn't sound like you do. Hint: regulation forcing companies to do business with people they don't want to do business with is the antithesis of a free market.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

Cajun Hell (725246) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701730)

GP:

Because it often involves price discrimination, restrictions on free trade or trying to prevent your customers from re-selling their property which is detrimental to a free market.

You:

Do you even know the term "free market" means? Because it really doesn't sound like you do. Hint: regulation forcing companies to do business with people they don't want to do business with is the antithesis of a free market.

Do you know what "regulation" and "forcing" mean? Hint: those terms have nothing to do with reshipping centers. (Unless, of course, you were to suggest a law to ban reshipping centers.)

Reshipping centers are a symptom of a free market. Someone doesn't want sell goods to a certain area where goods are wanted (demand is greater than supply) so the market (not government) finds a way to get things to where they're desired.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (2)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701124)

Free trade doesnt mean you can choose to set your prices different in different markets. If MS couldnt do that, they would either pull completely out of countries like India and China (where noone would think of paying more than a few dollars for Windows), or they would go out of business (because they could not sustain a business by selling the OS at India / China prices).

If I am a street vendor, and I flew over here from India, should I not be allowed to sell my wares at US price levels? Should I be forced to sell at whatever price I used in India? Wouldnt THAT be a restriction on free trade, as my competitors will not be bound by that?

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701282)

It also doesn't mean you just do whatever you want. There's a whole host of anti-competitive trading practices which can have a negative impact on the market as a whole.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701544)

And those also fall outside of "free trade", if you want to get super technical. They are restrictions on the free market more than setting your own prices is, is the point (not that they are necessarily bad).

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702200)

An absolutely free market certainly DOES mean that. What on earth do you think "laissez faire" means?

To be clear, I am not a believer in a full throttle laissez faire system, but that is basically a free market in a nutshell.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702052)

the internet levels this playing field and there is really no barrier other than artificially created by business. So businesses want to move their operations overseas for cheaper labor, but don't want lower prices brought back. True free trade would allow for the differences in prices to normalize.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702172)

True free trade allows that company to decide to whom it wants to sell its goods. The fact that more people want to be their customers doesnt affect that.

Re:Blame it on Fedex/UPS (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37700856)

Many shops don't want to ship stuff with good old fashioned US Mail and insist on using Fedex/UPS (at huge cost). Unfortunately, large parts of the world is only served by the Post system. So I frequently need to use a reshipping agent just to get some damned thing delivered to my mailbox.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (2)

Charliemopps (1157495) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701034)

They shouldn't. But what they are really doing is price manipulation. They sell in the US first, then in Europe 6 months later. Then complain when a 3rd party buys up the goods in the US and resells them in Europe or vice versa. To the point that they actually cripple their devices so only certain media will work on them.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37701644)

What's all this about force? They're not using force; they're reshipping. Both sides get what they want and neither one end up having to pull a gun.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702230)

GP was discussing blame, which indicates that setting your own prices and market entry dates is somehow a "wrong-headed" thing, with the implication that "wouldnt it be nice if we could force them to be ethical about it and make them hit certain markets and pricepoints".

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700676)

so buy something on a real credit card, pay the bill and ship/resell it over seas. these people deserve to go to jail for stealing

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (2)

georgesdev (1987622) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701194)

what the original poster is talking about is people buying with stolen cards, not delivering it to their address, but to a mule instead, and have that "mule" reship it to their true address. So yes, it deserves jail for the guy who stole your card

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

CraftyJack (1031736) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700702)

So, to "deal with" customs and export laws. Should we just be using the word "smuggler", or am I missing something?

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37700794)

Reshipping centers only exist because some big companies are restricted by regulation from selling their goods only to entities withing US borders.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

EdZ (755139) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700878)

This seems to be different from a regular reshipper/escrow service: instead of a company that buys goods on your behalf, receives the shipment and sends it on to you, this scheme involves recruiting regular people to do the reshipping (but not the purchasing) and act as cut-outs.

If you're brazen enough, you could potentially sign on with one of these dodgy schemes, retain the valuables (or rather, report it to the original sellers and return them) and re-ship bricks* to the scammers. The obvious problem being that you have to tell some rather nasty people where you live.
*or other humorous objects, e.g. the P-P-P-Powerbook [zug.com] .

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

dkf (304284) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701358)

The obvious problem being that you have to tell some rather nasty people where you live.

So give the address of the local police station instead. Remember, you don't have to tell the truth to crooks about anything. (Yes, it would mean that you don't get to keep the goods yourself, but that's OK because you're not scum. Right?)

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (1)

EdZ (755139) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701928)

I'm not sure the local constabulary would be too happy with you directing random packages their way. And a quick address look-up would scupper that plan quickly.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (2)

BondGamer (724662) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701756)

Or maybe they exist because big corporations refuse to sell their goods for a 100% discount.

Re:Blame big corporations. Really (2)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702618)

But I want to pretend I'm in the UK so I can buy toys from Amazon.co.uk which they won't ship to the US (unless they're attached to a DVD, such as a die cast model of The Liberator attached to a Region 2 season box set of Blakes 7). With my own credit card, too! I can understand that there's differing child safety laws and regulations and costly mandatory testing procedures governing toys but, dammit, I'm an adult!

They'll let me buy things that should be useless due to DRM and region locking and/or differing video standards, but they won't let me buy actually useless toys?!

Easy to infiltrate (1)

Sqr(twg) (2126054) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700590)

Wouldn't it be very easy for the police to infiltrate this sort of thing? Just respond to a couple of ads on craiglist, then trace the packages to their final destination.

Re:Easy to infiltrate (3, Insightful)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700770)

Wouldn't it be very easy for the police to infiltrate this sort of thing? Just respond to a couple of ads on craiglist, then trace the packages to their final destination.

Yes, only the US has no jurisdiction outside of it's borders and can do dick all about it without using diplomatic channels.

Oh, wait, ACTA means they practically do. Forget I said anything.

Re:Easy to infiltrate (2)

shentino (1139071) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702990)

Screwing the US by letting their own citizens get away with scams can prove to be powerful motive if diplomatic relations are sour enough.

"To catch an identity thief" revealed some scammers setting up a server in Iran specifically to take advantage of Iran's apathy and outright hostility towards US interests.

When you're on the run from someone there's not much better than to camp out on someone else's turf that hates the guy chasing you.

Re:Easy to infiltrate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37700778)

Yea, then all the police will have to do is fly to North Africa, where they obviously have jurisdiction, and arrest everyone. Fucking police are so stupid, why didn't they think of this.

Re:Easy to infiltrate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37701750)

Yea, then all the police will have to do is fly to North Africa, where they obviously have jurisdiction, and arrest everyone. Fucking police are so stupid, why didn't they think of this.

Fucking jurisdiction, how does it work?

Re:Easy to infiltrate (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 2 years ago | (#37703004)

How it doesn't work is expecting blind cooperation from other nations that might not even care about your problems.

Sheltering your enemy's enemy is a satisfying dick move.

Re:Easy to infiltrate (2)

JDG1980 (2438906) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701804)

Predator drones have worldwide jurisdiction.

Re:Easy to infiltrate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37703618)

Predator drones have worldwide jurisdiction.

'Might makes right,' eh? What are you, twelve?

Re:Easy to infiltrate (1)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702300)

It would, the thing is it would require cooperation between police forces in multiple countries and afaict unless it is a REALLY serious crime the police are reluctant to put effort into crimes where the victims are half way arround the world.

the stupidity of some people astounds me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37700602)

in this day and age almost everything you do at work is tracked. The retail workers have to log into their cash register so management knows who is ringing up how many purchases for their performance metrics. On the other hand if you have say 10,000 compromised credit cards and 500 are somehow linked to the same cashier person at Macy's and others linked to a few other people around town it makes you think it may not be a coincidence.

yet these people take part in these scams that are easily caught and for very little money when you think about it long term

What excuses do they use? (1)

SniperJoe (1984152) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700652)

What I'm having a hard time understanding is why people are willingly doing this? What excuses are the "managers" using to convince people that this is legitimate? Having high dollar consumer goods coming in and then shipping them out to a different address should just be a giant red flag to nearly anyone in this day and age. Are these people that desperate for a job that they're willing to turn a blind eye to it or are the "managers" somehow convincing people that this is on the up and up?

Re:What excuses do they use? (2)

MoonBuggy (611105) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700720)

There are plenty of items that are only available in certain countries and are only sold by companies that don't ship internationally. With popular items you can normally find them on eBay with international shipping, but if it's a niche product then your best bet is a re-shipper. It doesn't surprise me for a second that they're being used for fraud, but there is a logical and legitimate purpose to their existence.

Re:What excuses do they use? (1)

bryan1945 (301828) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700920)

Exactly. There is nothing inherently wrong or immoral about reshipping something. There is nothing wrong or immoral about owning a bar. Now if you are reshipping things to get around laws and/or taxes, or holding an illegal gambling saloon in the back room of your bar, well then there is a problem.

I think a while back UPS, FedEx, and DHA didn't cover all areas, and would need to have one of the companies (or even a local company) "reship" the package. Don't know if that is still true or not.

Re:What excuses do they use? (1)

budgenator (254554) | more than 2 years ago | (#37703904)

If a legitimate business is recruiting re-shippers to work out of their homes, you can be pretty sure that they are going to require sufficient documentation to do a background check and probably make up get bonded as well; otherwise the prosecutor isn't likely to be amused by your attempt at plausible deniability.

Re:What excuses do they use? (1)

inject_hotmail.com (843637) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701546)

Do you have any idea what a distribution channel is? I suppose not, because this is what they do. Business operators enjoy having a one-stop-shop...much less hassle, and having 1 strong relationship is preferable to having many weak ones. Further to this, the distributor gains buying power. (read: cheaper prices, maintained product availability)

Think of, say, SummitRacing.com, I bet they have a lot of items for sale that they don't stock. How do you think a customer will get their stuff? Drop ship? Not for everything. The workers have no idea why stuff is coming or going...that's business happening, my friend.

This idea that manufacturers should sell directly to the customer is going to blow up in the collective buying public's face. Does anyone realize how badly manufacturers DON'T want to talk to you? Ok, there are some exceptions, whatever, the point is that manufacturers make stuff, and retail outlets sell and support it. A 2000+ year tradition, for a reason: it works well.

What's happening is that manufacturers are squeezing out (Apple's decision to not sell boxed software, anyone?) the retail component is going to make life harder for everyone, even themselves in some respects.

Hey, things change. I get that. I just think we're destroying a part of our economy that will take ages to recover once the collapse hits. How we can help: Buy locally/nationally produced and supported products. We'll just have to see how it all pans out...

Re:What excuses do they use? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37702702)

I think you need to differenciate between legitimate business transactions and "fencing". This article is about "Fencing" (disposing of stolen goods, and yes they are stolen goods because they were bough using a stolen credit card). I think all fencers should be sent to jail.
For the non-fencing crowd, I see no problem with it. And yes, there are very many legitimate reasons for reshipers (or forward shippers) to exist. Many markets are small and companies do not see profit in serving them, nevertheless there are consumers who are willing to put up with such problems (like lack of warranty, non existing customer service, etc.) for the sake of having the products/services. They are bona-fide paying customers. That's how you build a market. Once a market reach critical size, it may make sense to the company to have a physical presence (local distributor's warranty, etc.) in that market. Or do you want to imply that access to good and services are only for those privileged to live in certain region of the planet?

The mules are always the ones who pay (3, Interesting)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700654)

It's always the prostitute, the low-level drug dealer, the addict drug runner, etc. who end up in jail. The pimps and high-level drug dealers always walk away clean. Cops have learned that it's a lot easier to go after the low-level easy target than to do the *real* work of busting the scum at the top. That's not to excuse what the low-level scum does, but still, if the cops REALLY wanted to make a dent in this crap (and not just get some press *looking* like they're doing something), they would be taking on the guys who this stuff was shipped *too*. Don't tell me the U.S. couldn't put pressure on Russia and other eastern European counties to deal with this stuff if they really wanted to.

Will somebody PLEASE think of the... (1, Funny)

elmarkitse (816597) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700892)

Will somebody PLEASE think of the...prostitutes, dealers, and drug runners? I mean, they're really the heart and soul of our illicit underground, and if we don't save them from this sort of senseless abuse by our police, what does that say about the rest of us?

Re:Will somebody PLEASE think of the... (1)

deadhammer (576762) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701032)

You're obviously intentionally misunderstanding his point. Easier to make fun of the "bleeding heart librul" than to confront the issue head on, I suppose. OP isn't excusing crime or criminals. What he's saying is that the low-level low-lifes are the symptom, not the cause. Don't go after the hooker or the drug delivery kid, go after the ruthless pimp and the drug cartel. Sure, it involves actual work, but as anyone who's ever seen a huge drop in spam after a botnet takedown will tell you, doing the work and going after the source will get you FAR better results than trying to shut down a million easy to hit endpoints.

Re:Will somebody PLEASE think of the... (1)

misexistentialist (1537887) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701912)

Pimps have been shown to increase prostitutes' earnings and established cartels generally try to support public order . Obviously law enforcement can't allow that state of affairs, but they also can't eliminate those markets either even if it were possible.

Re:The mules are always the ones who pay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37700902)

If we're really going to have a war on drugs, why arn't we treating as such. Where the fuck is our US Military in all this? I know there are constitutional limitations (for good reason of course), but damn. Find the the confirmed top targets and take them dead or alive. It's only a matter of time before all those RPG and AKs from Libya make there way to Mexico and soon to places like LA California. Gangs like MS-13 arn't playing around, and neither should we! COPS are useless for dealing with this level.

Re:The mules are always the ones who pay (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 2 years ago | (#37703330)

Posse Comitatus expressly forbids military involvement in civilian law enforcement affairs.

However, the United States Coast Guard is exempt.

Re:The mules are always the ones who pay (1)

Xaedalus (1192463) | more than 2 years ago | (#37703804)

Damn straight. Them shallow water sailors are badasses, not only do they sail into hurricanes for fun and heroism, they also take on the drug trade directly.

Re:The mules are always the ones who pay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37701000)


It's always the prostitute, the low-level drug dealer, the addict drug runner, etc. who end up in jail. The pimps and high-level drug dealers always walk away clean. Cops have learned that it's a lot easier to go after the low-level easy target than to do the *real* work of busting the scum at the top.

Citation, other than Law and Order or NYPD Blue needed. Do you have any real statistics to share about this, or is this knowledge gained from watching crime shows on TV?

Re:The mules are always the ones who pay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37701156)

No, it is anecdotal. There is practically no way to prove that a cop let a pimp or high-level drug dealer off. Further, it is easier [if you have a brain and think about it] to nab the prostitute flagrantly shaking her money maker on the corner, or the sweating, nervous dipshit with 100 kilos of cocaine in their trunk, than it would be to nab the pimp twirling his stick or the drug dealer getting blown in the living room of his $10.8 million dollar estate that was rented in an offshore company's name.

Talk to some cops. STFU. FT.

Re:The mules are always the ones who pay (1)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701060)

"Pressure on Russia"?

Military or economic? I don't think we're giving them aide- so can't hold that back. They're not a major trading partner to us.

Europe and China are much more economically linked with Russia than us. Europe needs Russia for oil more than Russia needs them- and China isn't going to do anything.

Militarily- we're stretched already and a conflict would be stupid and unpopular. They have targets closer to them than we have. It would cost less for them to hurt us than vice-versa; even if any extended conflict would go our way.

The only way we could hurt Russia is by convincing EU to break economic ties- and to do that we'd need to lubircate the deal with a lot of oil.

In short- we can't touch Russia without a large cost to ourselves. Russia knows this too.

Re:The mules are always the ones who pay (1)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701376)

There are three parties involved in a crime/crime fighting. The criminal, the victim and the government. Crime fighting is possible only when the victim cooperates with the Government against the criminal. That is why it is possible to keep burglary, theft, assault, murder [*0] etc under reasonable control. There are other "crimes" [*1], like drug use, smuggling, black market, prostitution etc etc. There the victim cooperates with the criminal, and it is very very difficult to fight these crimes.

[*0] The near and dear of the dead are victims and proxies of the dead victim.

[*1] Government has to define what activities are crime

Re:The mules are always the ones who pay (1)

The Grassy Knoll (112931) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702026)

It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Ain't it all a bloomin' shame?

- Billy Bennett - 1930

Hmm... (4, Interesting)

wren337 (182018) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700694)

1) Set up in a foreclosed house somewhere
2) Answer ad on Craigslist for reshipping job
3) Keep merchandise, send out packages weighted with bricks
4) Disappear before 1st package arrives in Russia
5) Profit???

Re:Hmm... (1)

HBI (604924) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700712)

6. Get popped by an 'associate' of those you defrauded.

Re:Hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37700866)

Buy one of those 1000$ burned out houses in detroit, get stuff mailed to you, run off with it. Now you're stealing from crooks. Does that still make it right?

Re:Hmm... (1)

El Royo (907295) | more than 2 years ago | (#37700932)

No, now you're stealing from both the businesses and the crooks. You're not moving up the ethical ladder at all.

Re:Hmm... (1)

deadhammer (576762) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701054)

Still somebody's property you're profiting off of. And will do you little good when Ivan The Problem Solver tracks you down and introduces your testicles to high voltage.

Re:Hmm... (1)

homsar (2461440) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701164)

Instead of pocketing the goods, ship them back to the manufacturer? For high-end stuff could they identify where they were stolen from based on serial numbers? Would they be able to find forensic evidence (fingerprints/DNA inside the package) that would help identify the thieves?

Re:Hmm... (1)

inject_hotmail.com (843637) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701626)

Cite one case where DNA or fingerprints were used to catch a thief.

Won't happen...lab fees far outweigh the cost of a few consumer products.

This is what insurance is for. An acceptable amount of loss.

Re:Hmm... (1)

swb (14022) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701936)

Think of it as "ethical chemotherapy" -- the "patient", the business that is getting ripped off initially, still suffers at first, but ultimately you kill off the "disease" (the reshipping scam) because it stops being worthwhile as the losses are too great.

Re:Hmm... (1)

jpapon (1877296) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701818)

There's no way they would bother coming after you for a few thousand in merchandise. It would just cost way too much.

Not to mention, if you used an abandoned house, they would have nothing to come after.

Re:Hmm... (1)

swb (14022) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701858)

I always wondered why someone wasn't capitalizing on ripping off the credit card fraud guys this way.

AFAIK, the "reshipping jobs" are always setup so that the "reshipper" is kept at an arm's length from the people committing the fraud, so that when the reshipper is ultimately caught, he has no idea who hired him.

At this point, why not rip them off? If you were careful about keeping your anonymity (internet accounts, phone numbers, drop address), the built-in arm's length nature of the transaction works in your favor.

Personally I wouldn't keep the goods, I'd unload them on Craigslist, perhaps in a city a few hours away, or very quietly through less visible means.

Long, long-term you might get caught, but I'm thinking it would be nearly impossible because it would require them to actually monitor the drop location physically and intercept you face-face, which is the kind of exposure they avoid.

The only thing I can think is that they must send you cheap stuff first to "test" your reliability, or somehow get you financially invested in the process enough that you keep doing to not lose some kind of investment or payoff.

Re:Hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37701966)

Sounds like a bad movie plot.
The first "merchandise" they send you is actually laced with some exotic poison or virus and you have to work for them until they send you the antidote.
Now all we need is to hire Kurt Russell....

Re:Hmm... (3, Interesting)

BigSes (1623417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702030)

This works better than you think, or worked I should say. A friend of mine did it for a year or two with an empty house across the street from his (this is back in the AOL days), he eventually got caught by one person and was forced to pay them back $250 that he charged on their stolen card number. That doesnt make up for the $1000s he got prior to getting caught. He actually bought a CRATE of Sega Saturns when they were first released. He would order stuff on a stolen card number and just watch the porch for delivery, then go and get the packages. I dont know what he did with most of the stuff he ordered, because this was before eBay or Craigslist as well.

Re:Hmm... (1)

Princeofcups (150855) | more than 2 years ago | (#37703200)

Some people are already doing things like that, but they don't try to profit from it. Why not join in on the fun.

http://www.thescambaiter.com/ [thescambaiter.com]

hmmm. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37700958)

So the fedex package was dropped off there in lawnside, NJ... the one ups is awaiting receiver pick-up but my guess its going to be like the other ups shipment.. requires a signature, the person isn't home at the time, and ends up being sent back or something.. though the one returned to sender ups shipment was because the person living there refused delivery saying they didn't order it...

Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (2, Funny)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701042)

And let them just ship all they want and they will never get them back.

1060 west addison Chicago, IL 60613

Re:Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37701566)

And let them just ship all they want and they will never get them back.

1060 west addison Chicago, IL 60613

We want you to play ball with us.

Re:Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (1)

inject_hotmail.com (843637) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701692)

Is that a well known thing in Chicago (to use that address for nefarious dealings)? It even has a postal code?

(For the lazy /.ers: it's a parking lot near lake Michigan)

Re:Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (1)

bnyrbl (1014257) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701862)

Is that a well known thing in Chicago (to use that address for nefarious dealings)? It even has a postal code? (For the lazy /.ers: it's a parking lot near lake Michigan)

Actually, it's Wrigley Field.

Re:Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37702002)

Looks like someone never saw blues brothers...

Re:Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37702164)

Elwood Blues used it as his address in Blues Brothers 1980 Movie.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/trivia

Re:Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37702478)

Its in blues brothers, cubs field.

Re:Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37702718)

I believe it's a reference to The Blues Brothers.

Re:Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (1)

inject_hotmail.com (843637) | more than 2 years ago | (#37703198)

Gah! I should have known...I've even seen the movie recently.

Ah well...I'm old, I have an excuse for a crappy memory.

Re:Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37703626)

Is that a well known thing in Chicago (to use that address for nefarious dealings)? It even has a postal code?

(For the lazy /.ers: it's a parking lot near lake Michigan)

For lazy /.ers that want the right answer: That's Wrigley Field.
(Heck, even the "Blues Brother's" movie had that joke).

Re:Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37703918)

A parking lot? That's a little far to go for a car analogy, even on Slashdot.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes?qt0320055

Re:Answer ad put down 1060 west addison as address (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37703102)

Wrigley Field. We're on a mission from God.

But software piracy with stolen credit cards is ok (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37701046)

If the focus of this story were on the use of stolen credit cards to buy software in order to pirate it, the Slashdot angle would be completely different:

"ZOMG! Credit card companies STEAL MONEY from the PUBLIC DOMAIN! Software companies STEAL CREATIVITY from the OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITY!! Let's all support the PIRATES with PayPal donations, because SHARING IS CARING!!"

Now, suddenly, you're all on the side of the law. Assholes.

Re:But software piracy with stolen credit cards is (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701832)

WTF? I've never seen anyone defend credit card theft for any purpose on here. Leave and take your straw man with you.

lonely people blind (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37701198)

Lonely guy meets hot girl chatting on singles site, then packages start showing up one day and she asks you to just stick label she supplies and mail it on because she can't get shipping company to deliver directly. Then packages keep coming but she's assures you its all ok and when you check on one of the packages the company shipping to you says its legitimate. In fact she tells you you can even keep something for yourself, Then a WISE friend finds out and says DUH!, its probably stolen and she is really a guy and she does not actually know you or love you. The guy doing the shipping suspected but she(?) Kept reassuring him everything was legitimate, and was going to come visit hime soon. He just needed someone to smack him hard with a reality stick. At some point the investigators came calling, luckly he had already returned all and had blocked incomings shipments.

Fedex and the CC companies could stop this (1)

Maximum Prophet (716608) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701472)

If FedEx, UPS and USPS worked with the Credit Card companies and the Police, this could be stopped quickly. Once a known fraudulent card is used to ship to an address, mark all shipments to that address as suspicious, and track them down to their source.

Yes, it'd be a huge data mining operation, and yes Congress would have to pass some laws to bypass anti-trust laws, but it's feasible. No, you'd never get the legislature, law enforcement and business to agree on enough to make this work.

Re:Fedex and the CC companies could stop this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37702368)

It takes too long to discover the fraud:

Timeline:
day 1) card is used to purchase goods
day 7) items are delivered
day 8) reshipper sends items
  -- Repeat 100 times --
day 30) Crime org stops using reshipper
day 31) Monthly cc statement mailed to customer
day 36) Statement received by customer
day 38) customer finally reads statement, discovers fraudulent charges, and calls bank
day 39) bank opens investigation, and sends request for info to business
day 45) business receives info request, and sends back what info it has
day 52) bank receives reply from business and adds it to the case
day 53) bank reverses charges, and refunds the customer their money

I run a few ecommerce sites.. past 10 years.. and this is a very real time line for fraud. Sometimes the customer may not even discover the fraudulent charge for 60 or even 90 days later. And notice, the FBI isn't involved here (since they have a $ limit before they get involved).. so if you want a real investigation, it's going to take even longer.

Hold on... This means I can get free stuff (2)

jpapon (1877296) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701758)

So wait, all I have to do is respond to some douche's ad on craigslist, and he'll start sending me expensive electronics? All I have to do is tell them I'll reship them?

Seems rather amazing to me that nobody is stepping in and just receiving the items without reshipping them. Or shipping boxes filled with junk instead of the electronics.

Disclaimer: I do not suggest doing this, and wish to strongly emphasize that any stolen merchandise received by anyone should be immediately returned to the store it was stolen from.

Re:Hold on... This means I can get free stuff (1)

broken_chaos (1188549) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702242)

You do like your kneecaps how they are right? As in unshattered?

Re:Hold on... This means I can get free stuff (1)

ironjaw33 (1645357) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702250)

So wait, all I have to do is respond to some douche's ad on craigslist, and he'll start sending me expensive electronics? All I have to do is tell them I'll reship them?

Seems rather amazing to me that nobody is stepping in and just receiving the items without reshipping them. Or shipping boxes filled with junk instead of the electronics.

Disclaimer: I do not suggest doing this, and wish to strongly emphasize that any stolen merchandise received by anyone should be immediately returned to the store it was stolen from.

The electronics are paid for with a stolen credit card, so if a few of the reshippers don't forward what they are shipped, there isn't much of a monetary loss. I guess it's kind of like spam. Even though tens of thousands of people get the same spam email, if only a small number take the bait, the spammer still profits.

Re:Hold on... This means I can get free stuff (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 2 years ago | (#37703388)

Spam is not profitable if you include his "partners" in the equation.

Namely, the owners of the computers that are infected and drafted into the botnet the spammer is using.

I bet that if the spammer had to send all the email himself on his own dime it would be very much not profitable.

It only works because they steal resources belonging to other people.

Re:Hold on... This means I can get free stuff (1)

ironjaw33 (1645357) | more than 2 years ago | (#37703934)

Spam is not profitable if you include his "partners" in the equation.

Namely, the owners of the computers that are infected and drafted into the botnet the spammer is using.

I bet that if the spammer had to send all the email himself on his own dime it would be very much not profitable.

It only works because they steal resources belonging to other people.

That isn't any different than the issue in TFA. In this case, the resources being stolen are money, not computing power and internet access. If the fraudsters were buying electronics with their own money and selling them for 30% of the retail price, they wouldn't be profitable either.

Re:Hold on... This means I can get free stuff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37702768)

So wait, all I have to do is respond to some douche's ad on craigslist, and he'll start sending me expensive electronics? All I have to do is tell them I'll reship them? Seems rather amazing to me that nobody is stepping in and just receiving the items without reshipping them. Or shipping boxes filled with junk instead of the electronics.

And then when the intended recipients complain, the original shipper gets wise pretty quickly and, in the case of criminal intent, you get an ever-increasing chance of being, at best, confused by a sudden sharp pain in your body. "Confused" because said pain would be from a bullet removing vital parts of your brain required to actually figure out where this sharp pain came from, assuming those parts were even there in the first place, given that you actually came up with this idea.

Disclaimer: I do not suggest doing this, and wish to strongly emphasize that any stolen merchandise received by anyone should be immediately returned to the store it was stolen from.

There's reasons why this is a better idea.

It seems like the online retailers have options (1)

BMOC (2478408) | more than 2 years ago | (#37701874)

Online retailers typically get some kind of notice of a fraudulent credit card within a day or so of charging/shipping a product right? So, in theory, if someone handling a drop were notified by the retailer that they have stolen goods and should ship it back, all would be well, right? If the person handling the drop doesn't intend criminal behavior, they can just ship it back, and no need to get stuck doing anything illegal. In addition, these online retailers have to have records of refused credit cards, if they cross-reference the bad cards with who has been shipped to, they should have some correlating groups of numbers/people on which to place suspicion of being a drop. This should translate into a mandatory 1-3 day delay before shipping to those people. Seems like there's lots of options to shut down these kinds of operations at the source.

Couldn't we make this much more difficult? (1)

KillaBeave (1037250) | more than 2 years ago | (#37702608)

Couldn't we make this much more difficult if we simply required the item sale and the shipping to be charged to 2 different credit cards from the same billing address if the shipping address on the order isn't the same as the billing address on the card used? Sure it would make buying and shipping Christmas presents a bit more of a hassle, but the crook would need TWO of your cards in order to fraudulently buy anything.

Could be a terrible idea, but seems pretty simple and only a minor inconvenience.

Video (1)

afabbro (33948) | more than 2 years ago | (#37703600)

The US Postal Service made a series of CSI-type movies a few years ago...one of them was "Work @Home Scams" and covered remailers:

Work @Home Scams [youtube.com]

It's well done for a government video...though why the government needs to be making action movies is a separate question.

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