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Occupy Wall Street Protests Go Global

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the when-in-rome-do-as-the-romans-do-except-burning-cars dept.

Earth 944

Hugh Pickens writes "Tens of thousands of people around the world took to the streets Saturday to reiterate their anger at the global financial system, corporate greed and government cutbacks, with rallies held in more than 900 cities in Europe, Africa and Asia. 'United in one voice, we will let politicians, and the financial elites they serve, know it is up to us, the people, to decide our future,' said organizers of the global demonstration. The demonstrations by the disaffected coincided with the Group of 20 meeting in Paris, where finance ministers and central bankers from major economies were holding talks on the debt and deficit crises afflicting many Western countries. Crowds around the world were largely peaceful, but the demonstration in Rome turned violent as clashes in the Italian capital left dozens injured, including several police officers. In London, WikiLeaks leader Julian Assange made a dramatic appearance, bursting through the police lines just after 2:30pm, accompanied by scores of supporters. He climbed the cathedral steps near St. Paul's to condemn 'greed' and 'corruption,' and attacked the City of London, accusing its financiers of money laundering and tax avoidance."

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Assange condemns greed? (1, Funny)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729640)

In other news, the greedy condemn Assange.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729674)

Rapist condemns robbers. Film at 11.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (5, Insightful)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729688)

This isnt about Assange and his glory seeking attempts.

This is about our parents, our grandparents, and our future. Our grandparents and parents because their retirement disappeared when bankers toying with other peoples money failed.

Us because, as it stands now...we have no guaranteed retirement plan. At any time any idiot can do the exact same thing and take away our retirement.

Companies are gouging the consumer, stealing from their employees, and then asking them to pay for their own expensive healthcare.

Not only that, but these same companies are claiming no one wants to work for them and asking for overseas employees.

This world that has been created by the Corporations has put enough pressure on the lower and middle class. It is time, once again, to tell them "we are tired and we aint gunna take it no more".

Re:Assange condemns greed? (5, Insightful)

Poorcku (831174) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729786)

I agree. This is Corporatism at work. But i am saddened to see that the worldview today is so straightforward and simple minded. Sure the Occupy crowd is right, but no one in it mentions that Corporatism can only be "installed" if the Government has no "UAC". We have a big and weak government (the worst kind actually), where legislation which creates Freddie and Fannie (inducting huge market distortions), Housing Acts etc, etc, which do more harm than good. And when the corporations mess up, they get bailed out whereas people have no jobs and no income. No wonder that the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street have more than 30% common variance. This is perceived unfairness. One wants the Government out, the other the corporations down. Both are right. And while I agree with you on each and single argument you have there, put one from me on that list: Screw the Government because it is the only one with legislative power and have done nothing but crap with it. Screw them because they have taken away our freedom in the name of defense. Screw them because they are in the same boat with corporations, who in my view want nothing to do a Free Market. All they want is Government protection and consumer gouging. In fact, screw them all.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729830)

seems like just another excuse for the niggers to cause trouble. just like that rodney king thing.

send 'em all back to Africa, says I. before they multiply even more.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (2, Insightful)

datavirtue (1104259) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729984)

You know, every once in a while you would see a comment like this on /. But as of late they are very common. I'm an easy going fellow, and not one who would promote affirmative action under any circumstance, but this is getting ridiculous. I can make a relevant comment and get moderated into oblivion, but some how this crap is sitting here at the top of the thread for everyone to see. I consider myself a member of the Slashdot community and I do not want to be associated with this outlook. I don't care if it is trolling or not, if it is trolling it is not very good. A good troll is subtle and smart.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (0)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729856)

I thought the tea party was Sarah Palin's fan club. Guess I should start breaking my habit of avoiding political news and maybe play a little catch up.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (4, Interesting)

msauve (701917) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729974)

No, Sarah Palin is about as far from Tea Party root principles as can be. She supported the bailouts which were the rallying point for the start of the Tea Party movement! She did, however, see that parade coming by, and jumped at the chance to hop on a bandwagon. So, now you've got a bunch of Palin supporters saying they're part of (or trying to take over) the Tea Party.

The Tea Party isn't organized, it's a true grass-roots movement. Hence, there's no one to really say exactly what it is. But this much is clear - it was named for it's root cause - excess spending/taxation with no effective representation of the people.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (1)

dietdew7 (1171613) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729862)

I have no mod points. So all I can do is post that I agree.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (2, Interesting)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729880)

You either work within the system or start a new one.

I see your point about Freddie and Fanny, government backing allows people to go to college, which means more educated people and more higher paying jobs. Of course this leaves a lull in the service industry, because those that went to college cant afford to work for minimum wage while paying off college loans.
Good intentions, and an attempt to level the playing field has yielded an educated country promised the dream only to be slapped in the face.

As for what is going on now as well as your points:

Did the government have a hand in it? Yes.
Has the government attempted to rectify this? No.
Have corporations done wrong? yes
Do they plan on changing? No
In which case can the common citizen ask for, or attempt change? Government or Corporations? Government... of course.

You see, history has shown that the rich will continue to deprive, deprave, and destroy the common person and when the common person gets tired of it and rises up... the rich just move.
So we must rely on the government to balance the rich attempts to rape our resources, our country, and our common person for their profits and then leave vs the common persons need to survive.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (4, Informative)

EdZ (755139) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729970)

government backing allows people to go to college, which means more educated people and more higher paying jobs. Of course this leaves a lull in the service industry

In the UK, we have the opposite problem. We have scores of university graduates (the majority with 'proper' degrees, not just dross like 'hairdressing' and the like), and almost no white collar jobs outside the banking sector. When there are multiple university graduates competing for a part-time job at the local supermarket, something is horribly wrong.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (3, Insightful)

Pino Grigio (2232472) | more than 2 years ago | (#37730056)

There are only so many art history graduates the economy can absorb. At my workplace the average age of electronics engineers is very high indeed simply because their aren't enough of them around. Students these days don't want to study something "hard" like that. They'd much rather study something "interesting", but totally useless in the real world. This is why I think making them actually pay for their education is a good idea. It concentrates the mind.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (1, Informative)

Kreigaffe (765218) | more than 2 years ago | (#37730024)

Freddie and Fanny don't have anything to do with college loans. You're thinking of Sallie Mae. Fanny Mae is a different beast.

Freddie and Fanny were only involved in home loans.
And, well, basically what happened was the government started letting banks package all kinds of loans together and resell them. And they started letting all kinds of banks act as investment banks. And they started requiring that banks made bad loans -- in the name of "social justice", of course!

So wtf happens? Of course the banks do as required and make loans to people who really shouldn't be getting those loans, the government said they have to. And of course they'll bundle up those bad loans and try to hide them in packages with mostly good loans. And of course those packaged loans will change hands 6 times, because every single bank has become involved in investments and securities.

And then comes the disaster.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (5, Insightful)

Zironic (1112127) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729884)

Isn't the point that they want the government to grow some balls and bring down actual justice to the economy sector? If we punished people in proportion to the damage they caused half of wall-street would have life sentences by now and the other half would probably think twice before they do stupid shit to get 0.5% more profit.

Corporatism? (0)

slashdyke (873156) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729950)

Do we need a new word, Corporatism for it, or do we already have one, Capitalism?

Re:Assange condemns greed? (1, Insightful)

Pino Grigio (2232472) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729956)

The occupy crowd is not right. They are touting economic models that have failed in every single country they have been tried (communism, Marxism, socialism). It may be the case that the economic prosperity of the last ten years was illusory. But then even so, the economic model that brought us to this position (Capitalism) has resulted in our current prosperity, which you cannot deny is an order of magnitude greater than comparable regimes managed in the same time. So it is completely wrong to say that Capitalism has failed, and that these "usual suspects" of Trotskyists, anti-Americans and anti-Capitalists have a point. The fact of the matter is that in the UK at least, the top 10% of earners pay 50% of all income tax. The bottom 10% of earners pay 0.6% of all income tax, and the problem with government spending is not that it taxes too little, but that it spends too much.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37730022)

I agree. This is Corporatism at work.

Lets quit using the Marketspeak buzz words and call it what it is. Fascism Go ahead look up the definition and yes that is what we have in this country now Fascism. You don't get it the media and the men behind the curtain wants you to use words like Corporatism because the world still remembers the horror fascism can bring. History does repeat its self if we let it and here in the US it is 1930 Germany. Remember a lot of these corporations were up to the same dirty tricks in WW2 and the same families are involved. Do a little reading on Bush's Grandpa for one. Even the same banks are involved.

So lets pull the monster with 10,000 heads out into the light and call it want it really is Fascism if we call it what it really is more people see what is really going on and will rise up to defeat it.

Welcome the Nazi Amerika.

Native America
Fighting Terrorism Since 1492

Re:Assange condemns greed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729872)

"At any time any idiot can do the exact same thing and take away our retirement."

How? I'd be curious to know. Who can walk right into the bank and take away your retirement?

Re:Assange condemns greed? (2)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729896)

The point of saying this is there is no faith in the system.

The thing that caused the latest world recession has yet to be fixed.

So two things must be done. The government must create laws that prevent what caused the recession and the banks, Wall Street, and the government must restore our faith and provide protections against our retirement being destroyed through investment firms that like to play games with peoples money.

Re:Assange condemns greed? (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729980)

The bank owners and the people they elect to manage it.

The Boomers have always been fucking up. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729944)

When you say "our parents" and "our grandparents", it's likely that you're talking about the so-called Baby Boomers. We shouldn't feel sorry for them at all. These people have fucked up everything they've gotten involved with, for decades now. Hell, they're largely responsible for the current situation.

They were born into one of the most, if not the most, prosperous times in the history of humanity. The foundation of this prosperity was planted by their hard-working ancestors, and they grew up in it and eventually inherited it, so they can't actually take any credit for it. In hindsight, this was the peak of middle-class America. Rather than trying to improve further on this already-amazing economic situation, many of them ended up becoming hippies fighting against the very system that provided them the best standard of living of all-time.

I'm not a conservative by any means, but neither can I respect those who grow up in a near-perfect environment, yet go ahead and do everything they can to trash this environment. But that's exactly what many Boomers did during the 1960s. They caused some damage, but thankfully were limited in their ability to cause real harm, and their movements fizzled out.

When the 1970s rolled around, some of them finally outgrew these youthful shenanigans. They got involved with corporate America and the American government, which up until that time actually did treat middle-class American workers extremely well. Even lower-middle-class workers could afford vehicles and homes without having to go into debt. But the Boomers would put an end to this as they started moving up the management ladder.

By the mid-1970s, the Boomers were starting to get into positions of corporate and government power. Given the huge amount of people around the same age, many of these Boomers tried to be as outrageous as possible to differentiate themselves from their peers, in order to further their careers. They would suggest courses of action that their parents or grandparents, the previous leaders of corporate America, would think of as being totally asinine and wrong-headed. One such concept that they embraced was outsourcing/offshoring.

They had unfortunately embedded themselves well within American corporations and government by the mid-1980s. They had become the leaders of business and society, and to put it bluntly, they fucked everything up. Every policy they made served to fuck over the American middle class. This is the very same American middle class that begat these Boomers!

The Boomer's precious offshoring, outsourcing and "free trade" destroyed the American manufacturing sector in the 1980s and 1990s. Although younger generations tried to negate some of this damage via the Internet boom, far too much damage had already been done. By the 2000s, the Boomers had started to offshore even the best-paying technical jobs.

As everyone today knows, the Boomers' policies have absolutely destroyed the American economy. They caused the very problems that have rendered many of them "poor" today. The only people they should hold accountable are themselves.

Re:The Boomers have always been fucking up. (3, Interesting)

Kreigaffe (765218) | more than 2 years ago | (#37730054)

I... have nothing to add to this.

It's a shame you posted this as AC. People should read this. It's not everything, but it's pretty damn close.


Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729976)

Stupid liberals. Look where your fiscal philosophies have landed us. Read on please....


This is a story about marxist liberal progressive democrats who are stealing my social security money, demonizing the companies who are my only hope for retirement and making me pay so union workers can retire before me. This is a story about billions of tax payer dollars spent on union people to pay for their health care because they get to retire early while I have to pay for them and work well into retirement age. This is a story about unions stealing more money from non--unions. This is a story about the largest welfare state in the world expanding on a global scale. This is a story about big-labor union fat cats reaping millions of dollars from the union workers. This is a story about almost fifty percent of American paying no income tax. This is a story about our country financed by the rich who pay for an entire class that has zero productivity.




Re:Assange condemns greed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37730006)

I am reading what you wrote and just remembering all the times I heard people laugh at people who stuff money in a mattress. Yes, a lot of people lost a lot of money because of rich people gambling with it and losing. Stuffing your money away somewhere else than an IRA or 401k or some other investment is not always the worst idea ever...

Occupy the tundra (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729642)

Global indeed []

And it will come to nothing. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729644)

And it'll all get nowhere.......

I mean..the Europeans will probably stir things up a bit and might get a few changes in...mainly in the field of regulation of the markets..

The Americans are, unfortunately, too cowed to do anything as they were sold out decades ago and are pretty well blind to it still. Although they are demonstrating in Wall St it'll all be a memory in a month.

As the average middle class American is progressively dumbed dowm, impoverished and stripped of their protections I can only see a small monied ruling class presiding (ah ha...pun) over a large mass of minimum wage slave serfs....

Such a shame, they showed such promise.

Re:And it will come to nothing. (2, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729722)

Just wait 'til the boomers notice that their retirement funds went poof. There's a whole generation that felt entitled to get everything handed to them from cradle to grave. What do you think will happen when you not only take away what they greedily consider entitlement but also what they worked for. You have a lot of people there who are used to complaining if they don't get their way and who are anything but a minority.

Re:And it will come to nothing. (0, Flamebait)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729754)

They are entitled because they paid into it you jackass.

Re:And it will come to nothing. (1)

Arlet (29997) | more than 2 years ago | (#37730030)

Doesn't work. The whole idea that we can all store money somewhere, and use it decades later is fundamentally flawed.

Re:And it will come to nothing. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729792)

There might be some complaining, but nothing will happen.

Right now your troops are being sacfificed (and sacrificing thousands of civilians in the process) to keep the Job CReators profits flowing, where is the outrage there ?

Your healthcare system is a joke, yet the worlds most expensive, your educational system is collapsing and is rapidly approaching Third World outputs, yet where is the outrage ?

Your government is seizing up, you're not even going to have a Postal Service where is the outrage ?

The right wing consistantly proclaim their 'right to bear arms' as the refuge of the people against government that doesn't give a shit about them, except as cattle...and yet here we are.....where is the outrage ? Where is the militia marching upon Washington ?

The average US citizen has been neutered, their passions diverted off to silly by-ways like reality TV and the weak-wristed practice of american sports. Imbeciles like Glenn beck and Rush Limbaugh are actually given the time of day and the attainment of scholastic achievement is belittled.

Forgive me, this isn't a anti-us rant, but the system there is so fundamentally broken and yet there's no sign of it being fixed. Even the louder political groups, such as the Tea Party, are in reality simple folk bamboozled by the skilful words of the spin doctors to suit their Corporate masters agendas.

So when the Boomers wake up that their 401k's have been plundered, well, they should have realised that was taking place years beforehand and there won't be a thing they can do about it.

I mean, hasn't a bankrupt government, almost Third World educational and healthcare standards, a truly colossal debt and unemployment through the roof ( not forgetting that the average income in the US is woeful) made the penny drop yet ?

The time to fix this is NOW, not in 12 months..not in 2 SHOULD have been 10 years ago.

But you will do nothing except complain about gas prices and why there are so many mexicans around these days.

Re:And it will come to nothing. (1)

astar (203020) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729990)

current stuff, as I define current

Birmingham 63
Leipzig October 89
US August 2009
Arab Spring 2011
global October 2011

More than memories. I bet that thought upsets you.

Anyway, the policy options being offered by our betters are bailouts, austerity, and police states. But these ideas are bankrupt and even "they" know it. Look at the results of the last G-20 meeting. These wonder ideas are just reflexes of Empire.

On the other hand, in part, HR 1489. (glass-steagall)

About Rome (1)

David89 (2022710) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729646)

The rioters there weren't part of the movement, they were using the movement as a way to gain attention and disrupt the real meaning of the day

Re:About Rome (0)

jmac_the_man (1612215) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729832)

What IS the true meaning of the day?

I live in the NYC area. I'm still not sure what, specifically, they're advocating. I saw a list of their demands that I had seen quoted from on their website, and they put a disclaimer along with it that THIS IS JUST ONE GUY'S OPINION AND NOT THAT OF THE WHOLE MOVEMENT. (Apparently, this is the guy that said "Free college education.") Are there specific policies, laws, etc. they want enacted, or is the message of the protest just BAWWWW?

Re:About Rome (4, Insightful)

Zironic (1112127) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729916)

Since they're a movement and not an organisation, no they do not have any specific demands.

The core of the movement is the idea that the 1% should be forced to share their wealth with the other 99%, which will have to happen sooner or later, or we'll get another French revolution.

The specifics of -how- the 1% should be forced to share, and how their wealth should be distributed is not an area where there is any notable unity yet.

Re:About Rome (0, Flamebait)

Pino Grigio (2232472) | more than 2 years ago | (#37730004)

They want everything for free, including their Art History degrees. They are not prepared, personally, to put a value on anything, even their education. And they want this abstract entity called "government" to pay for it. And if the government cannot afford to pay for it, they want the government to steal money from the people, by vastly increasing taxation on those who have been most successful, even though on the whole these people already pay more than their fair share. I have no doubt most of the people demonstrating haven't themselves paid a single penny in tax, for various reasons including unemployment and the fact that their parents are the ones paying for their college education. It's such unbelievable hypocrisy.

Quick Hitsory Lesson (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729654)

Only around 20% of the population were sided against the king during the time America was being formed.

Why is that relevant? Well it just means that it takes a lot less people than you think to get things rolling.

Re:Quick Hitsory Lesson (4, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729738)

But it takes even fewer people to keep the status quo. Less than 5% of the population of Nazi Germany were die-hard Nazis.

Re:Quick Hitsory Lesson (1)

azgard (461476) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729756)

I think Nazi Germany is a good example of a country which managed to keep the status quo for a long, long time..

Re:Quick Hitsory Lesson (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729818)

Because the 5% die hards and their lapdogs were willing to do things that an average person was not willing to do to keep power. It was shock and awe all the way to pacify a populace through fear.

Re:Quick Hitsory Lesson (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729938)

That has nothing to do with it. The Nazi fell because they lost the war, not because their hold of the system was weak.

Re:Quick Hitsory Lesson (2)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729788)

They also had to waste a lot of Tories and chase away the rest.

No bad thing but a small barrier nonetheless.

Re:Quick Hitsory Lesson (2)

E.I.A (2303368) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729922)

Well then, if 99% can't wangle this one, I think we're facing a problem with modern genetics. Either that or TV, hotdogs and Budlight are enough to keep ANYone down - or the math is a little off. I do support these protests and support them much, but also understand that 99 pitchforks cannot budge a single tank. If anything, the protests are a prelude to something much different. Parasites don't leave by request -- they must be removed with great effort. But I'm certainly not calling it a purge........

Too Quick (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729988)

Quick Hitsory Lesson

A little too quick, slow down next time cowboy!

"they have iphones" and other garbage comments (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729668)

I've seen this type comment around a lot. "They are protesting against corporate greed but they are using iphones and computers that were made by large multinational corporations!!!"

It is not a ironic that the people protesting are using tech that was made by near-slaves in china.

if we were to live some sort of exploitation free life we would have to return to the jungle and live primitively.

People are just doing what they can with what they have.

The rich have stolen democracy. Return democracy to the 99%

End the collusion between corporation and state!

Re:"they have iphones" and other garbage comments (3, Insightful)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729716)

I've seen it in cartoon form too: []

It's still wrong though. I wouldn't even call it a bad argument, as that would mean admitting it's an argument. It's a good textbook of the ad hominium fallacy: "These people are hypocrites, therefore what they say is wrong."

Re:"they have iphones" and other garbage comments (5, Insightful)

DarkOx (621550) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729858)

It might not technically be a valid form of argument; but this is forum were we are reacting to and pontificating on a protest movement. Its hardly an academic debate we are having here. So even if its not a valid argument form its still worth pointing out the hypocritical nature of some of what they are doing and asking for.

Generally in my practical experience when you find people preaching something other than what they practice one or both of the following is true. They are profoundly lacking in self awareness and understanding of their own situation, or they preaching something that is impractical and often impossible. They may or may not admit it.

I listened to NPR interviewing one of these protesters, he talked about no knowing how he was going to pay all the debt he had, yet called himself middle class. This is the United States, class here is supposed to be about what you have and what you do not what you are. If your net worth is negative, you are not middle class. That is called poor. Is it good to be poor, no, but it does not have to be a permanent condition. I can understand the desire to protest over the lack of mobility, even support it. I find it hard to take political prescriptions from someone who can't even admit or can't understand, perhaps both; his own situation though.

Re:"they have iphones" and other garbage comments (1)

rvw (755107) | more than 2 years ago | (#37730012)

Generally in my practical experience when you find people preaching something other than what they practice one or both of the following is true. They are profoundly lacking in self awareness and understanding of their own situation, or they preaching something that is impractical and often impossible. They may or may not admit it.

Another possible explanation for people who preach something other than what they practice is that they don't have the power to change it on their own, or they need support to create a movement. I can protest Apple using slave labour in China, and still buy Apple products. I can protest McDonalds destroying rain forest and still buy a Big Mac.

I'm not against big companies making great products. I'm against a financial market that has gone out of the roof without any regulation and without anyone - even themselves - knowing how it all works. And still I need a bank and a loan and a credit card and the whole system that is build around it. I need a consumer bank, and I need a business bank as well, not for me, but for the companies around me that support my life as it is. I suppose the gigantic economic boom we had in the past 30 years is for the most part a result of the same financial system that is now the problem, still it needs to be stopped and put down on earth in a way that is understandable and controllable.

Re:"they have iphones" and other garbage comments (1)

E.I.A (2303368) | more than 2 years ago | (#37730016)

Dude, if I could use an IKEA table-leg to defeat corruption, I wouldn't care what part of the Chinese underworld it was manufactured in; I'd Just Do It.

Re:"they have iphones" and other garbage comments (1)

Quatloo (805125) | more than 2 years ago | (#37730032)

The rich have stolen democracy. Return democracy to the 99%

Really? No, from your perspective and those of the majority of the "protesters" the rich have stolen communism from you and won't give it back.

Excellent article on what's wrong (5, Informative)

Deviant (1501) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729676)

After reading this article [] and seeing Inside Job [] I am tempted to join them!

Re:Excellent article on what's wrong (4, Insightful)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729694)

Tempted? If you are lower or middle class and ever have any hope of enjoying life when you are of retiring age, you better join them.

Otherwise, just throw your money down a rabbit hole.

Re:Excellent article on what's wrong (4, Insightful)

omar.sahal (687649) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729744)

It gets worse the more you study it. The sub prime housing issue was fraud plain and simple. We then had to pay for this when the assets (read bad debts) went bad. We also have to help the banks with their debts to Greece, Ireland and co, another bailout. So banks can't loose their money we have to give it to Greece, Ireland etc. This is then administered by IMF, ECB etc who help banks pillage countries, This money does not help the people of those lands, it harms them, so that when their economy worsens assets can be picked up cheap by banks, banks debts are paid and there future profits are guaranteed at our expense. It just goes on and on, the big question is will our governments keep bailing them out until our own currencies are ruined?
Don't think that The US, Great Britain etc are safe, we have big issues our selves.

Re:Excellent article on what's wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729978)

The artilce and it's related comments make me question if I should continue to be as supportive of the protesters. There's far to much of a sense of entitlement. You work l0ng, hard, and smart to get ahead. You pay your taxes and you take reaponibility for yourself and your finances.

Yes, corporations and people are greedy. Yes, I think there should be some sort of limit. No, I don't think they are evil. No I don't think that fair means you should get paid as much as the ceo of say.. exxon. Not that I think he should be getting paid what he gets anyway.

The protesters have a point, but when I read stuff like this it upsets me in a way that only radicals from either party can normally manage to do.

Facebook page of the ocw (5, Informative)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729680)

200,000 + people in page, 120 k+ are currently talking about it. its bigger than most politicians' pages. Support is really global, and there are people from all walks of life. Albeit, of course, people who have their dinners in monaco. []

Has all the purpose of this song: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729682)

Mojo Nixon Inside []

If you have an idea to solve the current financial woes and ensure it never happens again, email every politician in your country. If your plan is credible, they will most likely suck you off on the spot or get their secretary to :P

A protest for the sake of protesting is kind of pointless IMO and that is all this is

Re:Has all the purpose of this song: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729736)

Way to miss the point, bozo.

Occupy Wall Street Protests Go Global (4, Informative)

omar.sahal (687649) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729686)

First hand reports [] of whats going on in London and some tactics used to snuff out demo

Re:Occupy Wall Street Protests Go Global (1)

coolmadsi (823103) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729706)

I recently heard that the bishop of St Paul's Cathedral (where the protesters camped for the night) have allowed the protesters to stay and asked the police to move on.

What's the alternative? (3, Insightful)

geekopus (130194) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729690)

I'd love to see something better, but the rhetoric sounds a WHOLE lot like the Bolshevik revolution in Russia. How'd that work out?

In fact, as often as it's been tried, none of [] them have [] worked out [] .

Listen, I understand that you're mad, but you have to provide a solid alternative. Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it, and no matter how badly you want something to not be so, still it remains. These revolutions have a history of plunging their respective people into the dark ages.

Re:What's the alternative? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729732)

you have to provide a solid alternative.

Get the corporate money and lobbyists out of Government. Return democracy to the 99%.

Re:What's the alternative? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729760)

Stop the fear mongering. The protesters simply want to return to sanity. Between the New Deal and the beginning of Voodoo Economics capital was used to produce actual goods instead of financial bubbles. Why not simply return that? Other main concerns are the inefficient privatized health-care and education system. Changing to a european style public system would solve this. Finally, most of the American infrastructure is crumbling while people are unemployed, why not fix two problems at the same time?

Re:What's the alternative? (1, Interesting)

Arlet (29997) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729986)

Why not simply return that?

There are too many people now, and not enough resources.

Re:What's the alternative? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729772)

A political system where corporations do not have a seat at the table? A justice system where we get to see the rich and powerful do the perp walk more often? A monetary system that doesn't foster bubbles?

Re:What's the alternative? (1, Insightful)

argStyopa (232550) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729964)

1) you're anonymous, congratulations on the courage of your convictions.
2) SUGGEST SOMETHING BETTER. Seriously. I agree, a system biased in favor of the wealthy and powerful sucks (unless you are one). But please, identify a single time in history in which humans were organized into political entities above the hearth that it wasn't so? Even a barbarian Dark Ages clan structure had the clan chief (invariably male), his thanes, and there was some cottar grumbling about how they all get the best cuts of meat, the best land, and the hot chicks.

A bunch of patchoulli-stinking young adults polluting a sidewalk in front of some financial buildings is going to accomplish nothing, particularly when their gross hypocrisy is so evident (campaigning against greedy corporations? Organize that on your iPhone did you? Or maybe on Facebook?). They're nothing more than the bachelor lions yowling in the night because THEY don't get a comfortable place to sleep and nobody to breed with.

And if you're really going to protest - I mean seriously try to bring the system down - understand that the full weight and force of our government, well, every government, business, and the bulk of the populace will be against you (violently so, in direct proportion to your success) as they have every reason to protect the status quo.

Or perhaps raging anonymously on an internet posting is the most you can manage. It's not an insult; that's pretty much all anyone can really manage.

Re:What's the alternative? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729778)

No, they only need to be sure that, once the time comes, they consult widely and wisely before deciding what changes will be made.

Re:What's the alternative? (5, Insightful)

omar.sahal (687649) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729782)

provide a solid alternative.

How abut charging bankers with the crimes they have committed.

Re:What's the alternative? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729810)

If it hadn't been for the February revolution, the 1917 revolution would actually have improved things. Czarist Russia was by some margin worse than the USSR. Sure, by about as much as hanging is worse than beheading, but still.

Revolutions are usually an endpoint when the previous rulers were considered unbearable. Does it get better? Not necessarily. But it also rarely gets worse. At the very least, they're a tool to make sure whoever rules doesn't get so far overboard to make people revolt. Because there's one thing every successful revolution accomplished so far: Whoever ruled before did not rule afterwards.

That threat is actually often enough to avoid revolutions altogether. But from time to time, it's a necessity. Sure, you just install another one to rip you off, but it's usually enough to keep him in check enough with the fear of being overthrown again.

Re:What's the alternative? (1)

macraig (621737) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729908)

That's the problem in the United States, at least: we're overdue for flexing our muscle and reminding the PHBs that WE are really the ones in charge, even though we hire them to manage a few things for us. They forget that and get visions of superiority and then treat everyone else like the inferiors they've decided we must be... because we've stopped giving them regular enough beat-downs. I figger they need one at least every few generations, or the message gets forgotten. There's not even the vaguest of recollections right now. The PHBs aren't much more than annoyed by these Occupy people... so far. The overdue lesson needs to be driven home, and violently if necessary.

Re:What's the alternative? (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 2 years ago | (#37730042)

You are excessively optimistic. It gets worse about half of the time.

Be very careful, you might get what you are asking for.

Re:What's the alternative? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729888)

If you mean communism, no, it sucks. What people want is to be paid a decent wage instead of being told at every turn that their wages can only increase at barely the rate of inflation, while the costs of essentials go ever higher, and while the wages of CEOs mysteriously manage go up all the time, whether times are good or bad. This isn't about revolution in any dramatic and violent sense, but simply getting the people in positions of power to realize they've undermined the entire economic system thanks to their personal greed, while neglecting the stability of the whole system. Time's up. You can only rip off workers with wage freezes for so long while simultaneously giving yourself a 10% raise, which sums up what's been happening for the last 20 years or so.

The "solid alternative" here is for our democratic leaders to listen to what the great majority of people they represent are saying instead of spending their time figuring out yet another way to benefit their rich political donors. The people are angry. The vast majority are quite content to work within the democratic system to effect change. That's why this is completely different from, say, what happened in the Middle East, where people were trying to overturn oppressive regimes. But they do want to see actual progress within the democratic system. They want to see signs that it is still working. Not more empty promises that "of course" their elected representatives are paying attention, while the actions of the politicians continue to favor the 1%.

Re:What's the alternative? (2, Interesting)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729918)

I think the outlines of a convincing alternative are coming into view.

The sources of the worlds current problems are complicated and messy. But there are two big themes.

One is that democracy increasingly feels undemocratic, a hobsons choice between two nearly identical sets of alternatives. Party democracy was for the longest time the only reasonable way of doing things, but modern technology offers us the potential for something better, namely delegated voting [] . By allowing people to automatically delegate their votes by topic, it gives decisions much greater democratic legitimacy and consequently reduces the power of "bad" lobbying (as opposed to "good" lobbying, ie, persuasion of the people through education and argument). This isn't directly related to the financial crisis. But societies current problems aren't purely about finance. They're about a feeling of powerlessness, a feeling that a small elite runs the show for their own benefit. And in the USA perhaps a feeling that politics is getting ever crazier and more influenced by lobbyists.

The other big theme is of course the financial system itself: how it seems to be constantly on the verge of collapse, how it went so wrong that the world entered recession and how nobody seems to have any ways to fix it. I know there are a lot of skeptics on Slashdot, but I think together Bitcoin and Ripple are the most concrete proposals for an alternative financial system. Banks and the financial system are so powerful today because they are trust aggregators and we cannot currently do without that, the result being that they cannot be allowed to fail. This results in the well known "moral hazard" [] - the profits are privatized but the risks are socialized, and nobody can opt out.

The underlying principle of Bitcoin is minimizing the need for trust. There's a lot more to Bitcoin than just sending and receiving payments. It's a complete framework for distributed contracts [] , an HTML of transactions if you will. The potential of the protocol is still being explored, but what's clear is that where previously you may have needed large, 'trustable' institutions to perform various kinds of of trades, now you can do them with cryptography instead. This in turn makes finance more competitive and thus democratic, by reducing the barriers to entry and allowing smaller lesser-known companies to compete on an equal footing. The 99% have a chance at doing the work of the 1%, which means the inequalities between finance and the rest of us should even out somewhat.

Are these proposals perfect? No. They are, however, concrete and specific ideas that can be debated on the details, rather than merely slogans to be thrown around.

Re:What's the alternative? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729932)

Someone wants something better so they must be a Bolshevik? Dude, you're conveniently forgetting one of the most important global economic revolutions in the history of the world [] . How'd that one turn out? Pretty freaking well.

Re:What's the alternative? (3, Interesting)

Teun (17872) | more than 2 years ago | (#37730010)

The alternative is there, you just need some historical perspective and respect the common man.

I won't say the 70s and 80s of the past century didn't have their own problems but at least in Europe we all had a chance to a decent life without a hazy group of top brass manipulating politics and thus legislation trying to keep it all to themselves.

Protesting in Wall St is useless (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729714)

Protesting outside a companys office achieves nothing

you need to track down the board members and executives of these companys, you know follow the money, and setup camps outside those fuckers houses

protesting the company is useless, you have to protest at the people who created this mess, when shit gets real at home, and they feel personally threatened for their safety and their life is disrupted by constant harassment, then perhaps they will take a good look at what they did to piss everyone off.

While you are shouting at concrete at their office, they are at home enjoying themselves in peace with their ill gotten gains, their life is mildly invovienced (cant go into the office, but can sit by the pool and telework), you have to piss these people off personally to get change.

Re:Protesting in Wall St is useless (1, Funny)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729866)

pft in the famous words of Mister Burns "Release the hounds."

Where's OBL when you need him? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729726)

"The demonstrations by the disaffected coincided with the Group of 20 meeting in Paris, where finance ministers and central bankers from major economies were holding talks on the debt and deficit crises afflicting many Western countries"

I'd say it the other way around (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729730)

Spanish protests go global. Spanished followed the Arab Srping, then there were protests in many cities in Europe, then Israel, then it was the US, and now the whole world. Don't be that stupid centered.

Re:I'd say it the other way around (4, Insightful)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729846)

That what I was thinking. The indignados who occupied Sol on the 15th of May didn't choose to protest on the 15th of October because of something which started in New York in September.

Re:I'd say it the other way around (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37730034)

This, +1000 this. I cringed at the US-centric headline the moment I saw it.

What does this have to do with "News for Nerds"? (3)

toddmbloom (1625689) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729740)

This isn't a political blog this is a technology blog - can we focus on that?

Why aren't they really occupying Wall Street? (2)

Tasha26 (1613349) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729746)

According to this map [] , they are scattered everywhere. I wonder how much more effective it'd be if the 99% really dropped in on Wall Street and got their money back?

Re:Why aren't they really occupying Wall Street? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729808)

Because that's not where the real offenders actually work, that's just the exchange.

The peasants (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729768)

Are Revolting

Re:The peasants (1)

Bozzio (183974) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729904)

Showering will usually fix that.

Years of mistaken priorities (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729776)

I think 20 years of skewing the system to favor the wealthy while neglecting the majority is finally starting to sink in. It's not that people can't be rich, that there is anything wrong with being rich, or that there is something wrong with capitalism generally. In principle these things are all fine. It is the way that it has been twisted so that every time an economic issue comes up, the majority of people end up paying (bailouts, wage cuts, etc.) while the people at the top manage to skim off an ever-widening fraction. Regular wages barely keep up with inflation or even decline. We're told companies have to remain competitive, which is true, but if that's the case then why have CEO salaries climbed *far* in excess of inflation over the last 2 decades whether there's an upturn in the economy or a downturn? Meanwhile there is a race to the bottom in terms of corporate taxes world-wide, with countries like Ireland luring companies there with exceptionally low rates, then practically going bankrupt the moment there is an economic downturn. Personal taxes go down, but it's a game where the very wealthy get theirs reduced far more than the average Joe. Between corporate tax decreases and disproportionate tax cuts or tax systems that favor the wealthy (capital gains), the middle and lower class ends up shouldering an ever-larger fraction of the total tax burden to run government services, which get cut anyway. Everyone is expected to tolerate "austerity" measures due to a screwed-up financial system that wasn't their fault. Governments cut taxes before paying down debts when times are good (you're supposed to run a surplus in the good times to get rid of the debts so you are ready for the next economic cycle instead of hitting borrowing limits, and so you aren't stealing money from the next generation). The list of grievances is long.

Look, I like capitalism. Like democracy, it's the least-bad economic system that I think we have. But the simple fact is, this was a grand experiment in "trickle-down" economics. Early on, the results were kind of fuzzy, but the result is now becoming clear to everyone: you can't shaft the majority of workers for a generation and expect that things are going to be fine economically. You also can't say you are running a democracy while favoring the wealthy at every possible opportunity. You can't let money buy such strong influence in politics that ordinary people start believing their vote is worthless. You can't do these things for so long and expect that the system is going to remain sustainable.

Unless the rich and powerful eventually want to live in medieval-style castles to keep the common peasants out, they're going to have to realize that they need to pay more into the society that they live in, and focus a little less on their own individual wealth. They need to care more about the future of society as a whole, and bring things back to a more sustainable, balanced system like we used to have in western democracies and economies. This is the wake-up call. Heed it, like a democracy is supposed to do when its people speak up, and things will be okay. Ignore it at your peril.

Every Continent, Except Antarctica (5, Funny)

krygny (473134) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729794)

What do the penguins know that the rest of us don't?

Nigs (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729804)

Five colored men destroyed the front yard of stricken ugandan, started last night, when a colored man, known only as yellow slashed through the tripto unknow heart with a razor. The white friend of the wounded man, started after the negro, who proceeded to the toolshed.

Tens of thousands (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729812)

Tens of thousands of people around the world took to the streets Saturday

Are you kidding me? Just in Portugal were counted one hundred thousand people protesting. More like hundreds of thousands, if not more.

Occupy Wall Street: What’s Really Going On (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729816)

Excellent blog post by CM describing the situation on the ground:

Greed never sleeps. Sorry Mr. Young (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729834)

The Powers That WERE, will never let go without spilling the last drop of "your" blood, spending the last penny of "your" tax money, or eliminating the last of "your" rights. These corrupt, festering sores on society must be excised before any healing can begin. They are a cancer and the prognosis is not good. But there is always hope.

about the italian riots... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729848)

The riots in Italy turned to be very violent. It was basically urban warfare.
At least 4 cars were set alight, 70 people injured (30 policemen), shops broken, they even managed to set alight an armored police vehicle.

however, there were basically 2 groups in there:
-the main protestor group, who had nothing to do with violence, and in fact insulted and in some cases stopped and even handed some of the violents to the police.
-the violents, all in dressed in black, with helmets, clubs and other things. We call them "black blocks", they are dumb violent anarchists who gather whenever there's a big rally for anything, and basically destroy the peaceful athmosphere, private property and whatever they can find.

there was tear gas everywhere, people trowing anything they could find at the police...
this [] is the armored vehicle on fire, these [] are other images.

Daniel Shay, anyone? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729854)

Anyone else reminded of Shay's Rebellion?'_Rebellion []

no public figures getting involved? (1)

PJ6 (1151747) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729864)

There's plenty to gripe about, but I don't see anyone stepping forward to distill the message and create an agenda. Change won't happen without leadership and I don't see any at the protests.

Re:no public figures getting involved? (0)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729878)

well it looks like julian asshat is trying. But I don't really see him as an effective leader. He just runs wikileaks and likes fame.

Damned Wall Street 1% (4, Funny)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729906)

Now they're outsourcing the protesters! Preemptive apologies to rest of the world.

Ron Paul, End the Fed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729914)

If only more protesters understood the source of their problems. Most are complaining about the symptoms vs. the cause. However, there are a few there with End the Fed signs.
Ron Paul 2012 - the only person who would challenge the corruption at its source.

Re:Ron Paul, End the Fed (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729960)

Few people are more shortsighted than those who believe that our current condition is fixable by a single solution. Sadly, people like you are extremely numerous. Almost as sad is that the solutions to the problem require far more that most people can understand.

There is no way to hold debtors responsible (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729924)

In our modern society, there is no real way to hold debtors responsible for the obscene amounts of debt they run up. Why should we as a society let asshats run up 100k in debt and then have to hear them cry about how they can't afford to pay their debts, yet if they don't pay them..there is no real punishment to them. I say bring back Debtors prisons []

It it were that easy... (1)

poofmeisterp (650750) | more than 2 years ago | (#37729940)

...know it is up to us, the people, to decide our future,' said organizers of the global demonstration.

If it were that easy to accomplish, it would have been corrected many, MANY years ago.

Protest Hollywood. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37729952)

Can't we get the protesters outside celebrity homes. $12+ for a movie ticket is ridicules. Think of all the social good we could do with Hollywood's money, Brad Pit won't be any less pitter if limited him to say $25,000 a year like an average American. We can't stop at wall street.

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