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ResierFS In Latest 2.4.1 Prepatches

Hemos posted more than 13 years ago | from the already-coming-out dept.

Linux 181

Fluffy the Cat writes: "ReiserFS has appeared in the latest 2.4.1 prepatches on ftp.kernel.org. 2.4.1pre6 has a one-line error fixed in 2.4.1pre7, but it looks pretty certain that Linux will have a full jfs in 2.4.1." It will be interesting to see what's going to happen in the new development cycle, alright. The Kernel Developer Summit will have some interesting fruit, I'd wager.

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Charon (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#505057)

There were people working on another file system called Charon(sp?)... has that project died, as I've not heard any updates. From an initial read in a news group the features sounded promising.

Re:Stable (2)

QuMa (19440) | more than 13 years ago | (#505058)

I assume this is fixed by now btw, this has been confirmed to happen with 3.5.28 anyway...

Reiserfs is great.. and a warning... (5)

benmhall (9092) | more than 13 years ago | (#505059)

Hi.

I first got exposure to the Reiserfs with Mandrake 7.1. I was very impressed.

It is very fast, has been (mostly) stable and makes hard reboots very tolerable. Also, I don't tend to get the errors I would on an ext2fs, theoretically because it's journaling.

ReiserFS is a lit more than just a journaling file system though. Those interested should really check out namesys.com. They're striving for a filesystem with plugins, so it would be very extendable. Also, they way it stores information and searches is quite different.

A few words of caution though: I had major issues with a few of the bundled ReiserFS tools with the 2.4.0test series patches on my Debian Woody machine. Maybe they've stabilized since then, but I ruined my filesystem trying to fix some very odd ReiserFS related errors.

To be fair, I was running tools that clearly stated they were a last resort. When they warn you not to do something, believe it.

I am presently running 2.4.0 with the ReiserFS patch from namesys. I've been running it since 2.4.0 came out and have had no issues, but I'm still using the tools that ship with the latest 2.2.x patch, as they are more stable for me.

So, try ReiserFS, you?ll like it. Also, if you?re going to use the tools (like mkreiserfs) use the tools from the 2.2.x branch of patches. (ReiserFS version 3.5.x rather than 3.6.x) as they seem more stable..

Anyway, the end result is that my system is very stable and very fast. Having seen the obvious deficiencies with ext2 (a server at work has 100+GB of RAID Ext2fs partitions. We had an NFS bug that caused flooding and crashing a while ago. It took about 45 minutes to an hour to reboot.) the ReiserFS seems like a great improvement. I'm glad to see that it'll enter into the main kernel.

Hmm.. of course another obvious drawback with all of these new filesystems is that, to my knowledge, there are no tools for other Operating Systems to read the new filesystems. For example, you can mount ext2 partitions in BeOS, but ReiserFS is out. So, if you?re running multiple OSs then you may want to keep at least one ext2 or maybe a FAT32 partition.

Hope this helps,

Ben

It wasn't me, honest! (2)

CaptainZapp (182233) | more than 13 years ago | (#505077)

like when someone kicks out the power cable

Because I never kick out power cables. Instead I compulsively flick those huge red switches you find in IT operations rooms.

This is why linux has not been the enterprise choice; when it costs you x thousand dollars for a minute of downtime, you want that server back up as quickly as possible. Now we just have to have the FS war; ext3, reiser, jfs, xfs....:)

It's an imporatant corner stone, certainly. Like better SMP support and the LVM. On a cached (by the OS) disk sub system you don't want to install a productive database device on a file system.

But the real reason of course, is that the decision makers (senior management) don't have clippy, the paper clip which should be shot at their disposal.

Good Experiences for Me (2)

Outlyer (1767) | more than 13 years ago | (#505078)

I've been using ReiserFS on a few machines. Primarily, it is the filesystem on my 40gb MP3 drives, and when 2.4.0 and the corresponding Reiserfs patch arrived, I actually switched my /usr partition over... it does feel noticeably faster, but I use it with certain caveats. First, these are personal machines, not multi-user, and second, I have backups of my data offsite.

It's great for my purposes, but it's not a true journaling filesystem, it simply journals metadata, which, while allowing for fast fscks, it doesn't protect your data as well as IBM's filesystem or SGI's will.

Re:About time! (1)

isorox (205688) | more than 13 years ago | (#505079)

If you dont like the advertising I assume you could just edit the source and remove it. Theres a Swansea University advert in the bootup for 2.2.x kernels. Doesnt bother me, I dont boot up much.

Re:Yes! (2)

f5426 (144654) | more than 13 years ago | (#505080)

All this AFAIK, but I can be proven wrong once again...

> wow, something ever other OS has had for years

Huh ? Since when windows 95/95 have a journalling FS ? Since when Mac OS have a journalling FS ? Since when NeXTstep/OPENSTEP/Mac OS X Server have a journalling file system ? Or Mac OS X ?

> Now maybe Linux can get a user-friendly GUI?

OSes with a user-friendly GUI and a journalling filesystem are BeOS and WinNT/Win2K.

Cheers,

--fred

More info (5)

autocracy (192714) | more than 13 years ago | (#505081)

First off, the Reiser File System is what we call a journaling file system. That means that as something is about to be written to the disk, another item describing what is about to be done is written to the disk first (the journal). Now, if you system crashes while the journal is being written, that's no big deal for the filesystem: whatever you were going to save/delete just doesn't get done and the computer happily moves on. However, if your computer crashes after the journal has been written and you're saving that special file, the systems looks at the journal on boot and says "oops, this didn't get done - let's throw it out." Obviously you lose your file here, but it's no worse than in a non-journaling system. In one of those you lose your file, corrupt your filesystem, and lose your data anyway.

For further details on Reiser FS, check out this page [devlinux.com] . Freshmeat links to it, but I'm not entirely certain it works (I can't bring it up from here).

Also note that the maker of the file system, Hans Reiser, is suing Microsoft for the information that he needs to market the filesystem to Windows users :)

My karma's bigger than yours!

Re:Yes! (2)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 13 years ago | (#505082)

Yes, Microsoft only took 20 years to provide an OS with a journalling file system - I guess that's innovation in action.

Re:Reiserfs is great.. and a warning... (2)

CaptainZapp (182233) | more than 13 years ago | (#505083)

They're striving for a filesystem with plugins, so it would be very extendable.

Although this opens a lot of possibilities it could also be rather dangerous. As long those plugins cannot mess with the core of the file system, I don't see much of a problem.

Illustra (bought by Informix [informix.com] a few years ago) had the conceptual great idea of Data Blades. Those where modules (plugins) you could write yourself to add additional functionality to the database engine and that there are a lot of rotten programmers out there.

The problem is, that those Data Blades messed directly with the kernel of the database engine.

I don't know, if this is still an issue. But a few years ago you had to have your Data Blades certified by Informix, otherwise a voided warranty (probably in terms of support) might have been the least of your worries.

Thanks for your interesting post.

Yes! (1)

-stax (34630) | more than 13 years ago | (#505092)

Finally, linux has the holy grail of industrial strength operating systems! This is the one major reason why i use mandrake now, who wants to wait for a fscking fsck?
-stax
/. poster #104543567

Stable (4)

chrisdb (90311) | more than 13 years ago | (#505099)

Will the version included in 2.4.1 be labelled as stable or expirimental ?... I've seem numerous posts on BugTraq lately concerning ReiserFS.

Futhermore i've read somewhere "don't use the filesystem on systems which allow 'average' users to access the reiserfs-filesystem". Can anyone tell me what they mean by this ?.. is it 'not safe' or what ?...

Bearing? (1)

mholve (1101) | more than 13 years ago | (#505101)

That's "...should bear some interesting fruit..."

Software RAID + ReiserFS (1)

jonasson (224996) | more than 13 years ago | (#505102)

Can you run ReiserFS on a software RAID-[045] device yet?

Great news (1)

Mar_Garina (245223) | more than 13 years ago | (#505103)

I'm tired of waiting for reiserfs patches in order to upgrade a kernel. It's about the time.

Nice to have (1)

warfare (105089) | more than 13 years ago | (#505104)

Nice to see ReiserFS is included in the 2.4.1 Kernel. I am using it for 1,5 or so Years now and never had problems, except that one time where a Ram chip barfed. In my eyes ReiserFS is a stable and proven Filesystem, which is a lot more efficient and faster than ext2.

HAH-hah! (1)

AFCArchvile (221494) | more than 13 years ago | (#505105)

The 2.4 kernel has barely been released, and there's already development on a 2.4.1? Pardon me as I go into hysterics!

Okay, okay, this is good and bad. At least Linus and the others are still ironing out the kinks in the kernel, but come on, wasn't it supposed to work right the first time?

Re:Very good news (1)

Per Wigren (5315) | more than 13 years ago | (#505106)

I've goot zillions of terabytes of harddisk, formatted with journaling-FAT16 my Commodore Plus/4.

x86 only... (2)

bmacy (40101) | more than 13 years ago | (#505107)

Keep in mind it really hasn't been ported to anything other than x86. I hear the ports that are being done are targetted for the 2.4.x series.

I hope so... fsck on my SMP Sparc 10 box can be a slow process. The 2.2.18 patch is forgets to do a #define in errno.h and the utilities that come with it Bus error.

Brian Macy

Re:Very good news (1)

Vrallis (33290) | more than 13 years ago | (#505121)

I'm running Reiserfs+2.4.x over two 60GB drives (no raid, just straight partitioning). Running Sybase, doing NFS-based backups of a bunch of systems, etc. Very, very nice! Use it at home, my machine at work, and the 5GB spools on our print servers.

Re:Rock Solid (4)

Psiren (6145) | more than 13 years ago | (#505122)

But then why should I backup my data ?

Because not doing so is the metaphorical equivalent of flopping your wedding tackle into a lions mouth and flicking his love-spuds with a wet towel. Total insanity! ;-)

Shamelessly stolen from Red Dwarf, but an apt quote. If you're going to mess with your filesystems, back them up. Nuff said.

Linus is violating his own submission policy .... (4)

geirt (55254) | more than 13 years ago | (#505123)

This was sendt to the kernel list a week ago by Linus: http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel /0101.0/1192.html [indiana.edu]

This is the interesting part:

I thought I'd mention the policy for 2.4.x patches so that nobody gets confused about these things. In some cases people seem to think that "since 2.4.x is out now, we can relax, go party, and generally goof off".

Not so.

The linux kernel has had an interesting release pattern: usually the .0 release was actually fairly good (there's almost always _something_ stupid, but on the whole not really horrible). And every single time so far, .1 has been worse. It usually takes until something like .5 until it has caught up and surpassed the stability of .0 again.

Why? Because there are a lot of pent-up patches waiting for inclusion, that didn't get through the "we need to get a release out, that patch can wait" filter. So early on in the stable tree, some of those patches make it. And it turns out to be a bad idea.

In an effort to avoid this mess this time, I have two guidelines:

- I've basically thrown away all patches sent to me so far, and I will continue to do so at least over the weekend. I'm not going to bother thinking about patches for a few days.

- In order for a patch to be accepted, it needs to be accompanied by some pretty strong arguments for the fact that not only is it really fixing bugs, but that those bugs are _serious_ and can cause real problems.

Obviously, the size of the patch matters too: if you can make an obvious fix in 5 lines, do it. Don't try to make a clean fix that fixes the problem the clever way in 150 lines.

In short, releasing 2.4.0 does not open up the floor to just about anything. In fact, to some degree it will probably make patches _less_ likely to be accepted than before, at least for a while. I want to be absolutely convicned that the basic 2.4.x infrastructure is solid as a rock before starting to accept more involved patches.

Re:Stable (2)

bconway (63464) | more than 13 years ago | (#505124)

I think your concerns are exaggerated. It's safe, stable, and benchmarks put it at about 15% faster than ext2. I've been using it on various desktops for over a year and it is GREAT.

Re:Yes! (1)

Nadir (805) | more than 13 years ago | (#505125)

Also Sun's Solaris UFS isn't journalled, but I believe that has changed recently. Anyway anybody doing serious stuff with Solaris uses Veritas' VxFS


--
The world is divided in two categories:
those with a loaded gun and those who dig. You dig.

Dumb questions: Rolling back changes (3)

Spoing (152917) | more than 13 years ago | (#505126)

No matter how forgiving and PC your attitude is there are most definately dumb questions . Here are a couple more;

Background: One of the benifits of a jfs is being able to 'roll-back' changes or to select a specific revision without rolling back the current version.

  1. Q. How well does ResierFS handle this (if at all)?
  2. Q. What file systems are available that can do this, and what tools are available to get back intermediate revisions of a specific file or directory tree.

With cheap disk space, this looks like it would be a great tool to have, while faster boot time is less valuable unless you are running a time critical application and any delay is a bad thing.

Re:Linus is violating his own submission policy .. (1)

theMAGE (51991) | more than 13 years ago | (#505127)

ReiserFS was planned to be included in 2.4.1 .

I cannot quote the message but sure it was on l-k.

Ther are still... (1)

kastaverious (267363) | more than 13 years ago | (#505128)

some issues with ReiserFS. 1. It's performance/reliability has been questioned

2.Ext2 is more proactive in maintaining filesystem integrity.

Does it work with LILO yet? (2)

SonofRage (89772) | more than 13 years ago | (#505129)

I have been using ReiserFS with SuSE for a while but one thing that always bothered me is that lilo can't boot the kernel off a partition with ReiserFS so I always need at least one ext2 partition just for this purpose. I heard LILO was starting to support Reiser, anyone know for sure?

Some thoughts. (2)

jd (1658) | more than 13 years ago | (#505138)

I like ReiserFS. It's FAST, it's stable, and it's FAST.

However, I would like to throw in some points:

  • If this was to go into a STABLE Kernel, shouldn't it have been introduced into the DEVELOPMENT kernels -first-? After all, that's why the series were split the way they were. Too much development code in a production kernel renders it the same as a development kernel.
  • There was a -lot- of fighting, over on the kernel developer's list at one point, over ReiserFS. How did it get settled, and how now?

ReiserFS is superb code, IMHO, and provides a much-needed journalling file-system to the kernel. But the timing is not good. By now, the series should have reached a hard freeze, to start moving into production code. But this is a BIG change, suggesting that 2.4.x is really a slushy 2.3.x that's been bumped up early.

Now, it's arguable that ReiserFS has received plenty of testing, is a good system, et al, all of which is true. I won't dispute any of that. My concern is that it should have gone in much sooner (at the latest, in the 2.4.0pre stage, to iron things out), as waiting until 2.5 is a bit stupid.

By adding it now, though, the precident has been set. Development code CAN be added to the Stable series, with the inevitable consequence that Linus is going to get a battering from wannabe kernel hackers.

Rule #1: Once you start paying Dane Gold, expect to keep on paying. It won't get any better, if you go down that road.

Re:Software RAID + ReiserFS (2)

seanw (45548) | more than 13 years ago | (#505139)

officially? I'm not sure, but it worked fine for me. I was using two 30GB IDE disks and software RAID0 with the 2.4test (it was test9, I believe) series. on my root partition, no less :) altogether, very fast and stable.

on the other hand, I haven't read about it anywhere, so I wouldn't try on, say, my mission critical corporate server.

Large root partitions(was: Re:Very good news) (1)

Dom2 (838) | more than 13 years ago | (#505140)

A 15Gb root partition? Are you totally nuts?

What happens if ReiserFS *can't* recover for some reason? You don't stand a cat's chance in hell of getting anything back. Try using more than one partition.

-Dom

I agree (1)

Johoo (305726) | more than 13 years ago | (#505141)

I'm using reiserfs since nearly 6 months on a low-hardware box. I can say, it's runs perfectly. I experience lot's of unexpected crashes (power supply isn't best) but reiserfs saved me from a real data loss.
I haven't checked latest releases, but until three months ago there were some problems with RAID devices and reiserfs..hope that's fixed.

Re:Other Journalling FS (4)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#505142)

For comparision of JFS, XFS, Ext3, and ReiserFs see http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue55/florido.html [linuxgazette.com]

New ReiserFS tools now available. (2)

Chyeburashka (122715) | more than 13 years ago | (#505143)

From the reiserfs-list:
Ok, here is reiserfs utils directory for linux-2.4.1-pre7 :
ftp://ftp.reiserfs.org/pub/2.4/linux-2.4.1-pre7-re iserfs-utils-patch.bz2

To use it just put the patch in "linux/../" directory with pure linux-2.4.1-pre7 and :

# bzcat linux-2.4.1-pre7-reiserfs-utils-patch.bz2 | patch -p0

Also, there is a patch to fs/super.c which you should apply if you are using ReiserFS for a root filesystem.
You can see the message and the patch here:

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=reiserfs&m=9796521 9413577&w=2

Re:Does it work with LILO yet? (2)

iCEBaLM (34905) | more than 13 years ago | (#505144)

I heard LILO was starting to support Reiser, anyone know for sure?

I know for sure that there are atleast patches to LILO to get it to work with ReiserFS, however LILO I don't think is the optimal solution.

I've been running ReiserFS for some time now, and during my switch to it I also switched boot loaders to GRUB [gnu.org] which seems like an overall better bootloader. I can tell you right now that the GRUB command shell has saved me a few times already.

-- iCEBaLM

Great! (2)

Nachtfalke (160) | more than 13 years ago | (#505145)

Maybe now ReiserFS will get ported to other architectures, so my little multia MP3 server won't take forever fscking the 20G data partition :-)

Re:Large root partitions(was: Re:Very good news) (2)

ochinko (19311) | more than 13 years ago | (#505146)

The most important thing is to have /home in a separate partition. That way you can experiment with all kind of distributions, always reformat /, but retain all your stuff. swap should be separate too, of course. And remember, Linux lives quite happily in extended partitions. You can have only four primary but you can have up to seven separate partitions (if I'm not mistaken) in every one of them if you turn it to extended. By doing this you don't lose performance or stability.

With the new lilo (or if you prefer the grub) you can boot from any cylinder so you don't need separate /boot anymore.

I've been using ReiserFS that comes with Mandrake 7.2 for three months now both with 2.2.17/18 and 2.4pre-sthg, now stable. My only concern was that I wasn't able to use a standard kernel. Now I can't wait for 2.4.1.

Re:Other Journalling FS (2)

spankenstein (35130) | more than 13 years ago | (#505147)

In My experience at my last position....

ext3 just feels like a kludge. It's not very elegant, but does offer a simple upgrade and degrades to ext2 when mount as such.

jfs is still having issues (in the latest freshmeat announcement fifos are now working.

Mostly I'm glad that reiser will be in the kernel. It's in my opinion the most stable and elegant so far.

Re:Vulnerability in ReiserFS (4)

Azog (20907) | more than 13 years ago | (#505148)

Don't panic. Don't spread FUD. This has been worked around in the latest prereleases from Alan Cox. A hard limit on the length of filenames has been set as a temporary fix.

Many people on the linux kernel mailing list could never reproduce it anyway.

At any rate, the issue is being studied and a better fix is "coming soon". You can be sure that by the time there's a real 2.4.1 that the problem will have been solved.


Torrey Hoffman (Azog)

Re:SGI's XFS rocks as well (1)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 13 years ago | (#505149)

This [rubberhose.org] is a very bad assed encrypted filesystem. Also take a look at this [uni-bielefeld.de] . So you can have encryption today. Have fun.

This is just what linux needs (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#505150)

Hi,

as somebody else said, you really should check out www.namesys.com [namesys.com] as soon as the slashdot effect wears off.

ReiserFS is much more than just a journaling file system with a tree structure. It has also some functionality from databases and full text search in the file name space. It therefore combines the advantages of the search engine (just enter some words), the database (strict mappings from key to value) and the classic tree structure.

It can also handle extremely small files efficiently, so that you do not have to write storage layers for your object oriented applications. If you want to store something that is 50 bytes large, you just create a file to store it, and it will not consume insane amounts of memory in your harddisk.

This means that you can boost the performance of everything that uses small files (some simple databases, mail and news servers, apache etc.) significantly by switching to ReiserFS.

People often complain that the open source software model does not produce many really new technologies: ReiserFS is one of those new technologies. It might even be the "killer application" for linux two years from now.

greetings,


AC

Re:Large root partitions(was: Re:Very good news) (1)

CaptainZapp (182233) | more than 13 years ago | (#505159)

Then I'm dipped. Well, not quite.

I'm probably gonna embarrass myselfe here, but since I never claimed to by the guru in Linux issues, here we go:

From the four partitions, one goes to W2K (gak!), one is swap, one is /boot and the remaining one is /root.

I'm sure there's a way around this, but I have no clue how.

Thanks for the hint, do you have a good pointer where to educate myself ?

Re:Other Journalling FS (1)

bonsaiburner (241972) | more than 13 years ago | (#505160)

Take a look at

http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/articles/issue6/lu6-All _you_need_to_know_about-Filesystems.pdf

I read the hard copy version, which gave a very good rundown of the available filesystems. Hope this helps

Re:Does it work with LILO yet? (2)

HeUnique (187) | more than 13 years ago | (#505161)

Yup. The newest LILO (26.1?) supports booting from ReiserFS partition. Check freshmeat.net

Re:Does it work with LILO yet? (1)

Ozric (30691) | more than 13 years ago | (#505162)

Yes you need lilo >= 0.21.6, you also need to mount the boot partion with the --notail option. Works like a champ.

Re:x86 only... (1)

pdh11 (227974) | more than 13 years ago | (#505163)

The 2.2.x patches were unwittingly x86-specific, in that they assumed unaligned int reads were OK. Unaligned int reads are not OK on many other architectures, particularly ARM and Sparc. (Plus mkreiserfs went "while (c>=0)" on a char, but that's just textbook bogus C.)

The 2.4.x patches fix these issues, work perfectly on ARM, and presumably will work on Sparc too.

Peter

Re:Some thoughts. (2)

HeUnique (187) | more than 13 years ago | (#505164)

Although it wasn't on the official Linux kernel 2.3/2.4.xtest - it was used quite extensivley by people, and the main download site of sourceforge - got all the partitions with ReiserFs - so when you do CVS check in/out, or downloading from sourceforge - you're downloading from a ReiserFS built machine - with quite big hard disks - 750GB

Corrected URL for patch. (1)

Chyeburashka (122715) | more than 13 years ago | (#505165)

An extra space crept into the URL.
Eliminate any spaces you see in the following URL:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l= reiserfs&m=97965219413577&w=2

Re:Rock Solid (1)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 13 years ago | (#505166)

Because you always backup your data. For example what if the hd goes tits up in the middle of the conversion? What if you lose power in the middle? All kinds of things that could go wrong in the middle of the conversion that could cause data loss. But of course you already have full backups of all your data because any of those other things could go wrong at any moment in the day. Don't you? You mean you don't? Maybe you should learn about doing backups before you start play with a new filesystem. :) Have a paranoid day.

Re:HAH-hah! (1)

Flower (31351) | more than 13 years ago | (#505167)

So there shouldn't be a reason for Win2K SP1 I take? iirc, work on SP1 was being done just after Win2K went gold. Note, that's before it was even pressed for release. Hell, there are issues with NT that require the creation of SP7.

Next time buy a clue before going into naive hysterics over a non-issue. This is the way software development works.

Is ReiserFS really a Journalling filesystem? (1)

bonsaiburner (241972) | more than 13 years ago | (#505168)

If you look at the section on Reiserfs at

http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/articles/issue6/lu6-All _you_need_to_know_about-Filesystems.pdf

It suggests that Reiserfs is not (yet) a true Journalling file system. Here's what it says:

Reiserfs uses a scheme called 'preserve lists' to update metadata, ensuring that metadata isn't overwritten directly - this reduces the risk of inconsistencies occuring in event of a crash. (Reiserfs isn't a true Journalling filesystem, although journalling extrnsions have been pre-announced.)

what say ye?

Re:Reiserfs is great.. and a warning... (2)

AndroSyn (89960) | more than 13 years ago | (#505169)

You are also better off using the 3.5.x utils as reiserfs 3.6.x does not have a functional fsck yet(its in the works though). Not that you'll need it too often, but just in case.

Tried it . . . (1)

lbredeso (235131) | more than 13 years ago | (#505170)

Yeah, I tried ReiserFS with woody back at kernel 2.4.0-test12. It's fast, and doesn't complain after lock-up. It all was working great until it locked up while playing quake3 a couple of times . . . then it started complaining about a couple of files that were corrupted or something. I didn't lose much, but I switched back to ext2 right away . . .

Re:Vulnerability in ReiserFS (3)

AndroSyn (89960) | more than 13 years ago | (#505171)

This bug has been fixed.

I've you actually followed reiserfs development any you would know this. The issue was the fact that reiserfs knows how to handle filenames longer that 255, but the VFS in the linux kernel does not. So, reiserfs that is in 2.4.1-pre7 limits this to 255 characters..

As proof for you tiny little mind...
mkdir "$(perl -e 'print "x" x 768')"
mkdir: cannot create directory `xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx': File name too long

The said filesystem is reiserfs..

Re:About time! (1)

AndroSyn (89960) | more than 13 years ago | (#505172)

The ads got killed on inclusion to 2.4.1-preX

So don't worry about the ads anymore..

specifically ... (2)

FreeUser (11483) | more than 13 years ago | (#505173)

Specifically, read the partition howto [linuxdoc.org] , the man pages for fdisk, and the lilo/grub man/info pages. A good documentation reference point for Linux in general (including links to all the HOWTOs, etc. is the Linux Documentaiton Project [linuxdoc.org] .

emergency boot disks (1)

brad3378 (155304) | more than 13 years ago | (#505174)

Does anybody know of any small Distributions (like Peanut) that will natively mount the Reiser File system? I know of several people that have had trouble mounting their file sysems (writable) after screwing up key files.

I'm hesitating a switch to Reiser because I don't know what supports it yet. (i.e. Partition Magic, Sys Comm. 2000, emergency boot disks, etc.)

Re:mighty chocolately (1)

The Troll Catcher (220464) | more than 13 years ago | (#505175)

That WAS pretty funny...

(In case you haven't seen the ads for Reisen chocolate caramel somethingorothers, the tag-line is "Mighty chocolaty, mighty Reisen. You've GOT to try one!")

Re:More info (1)

Boiotos (139179) | more than 13 years ago | (#505176)

This excellent basic description begs an obvious question: what happens if something interrupts a write to the journal? Persumably this write is a quicker process, and so less likely to be interrupted, but how do these systems avoid corruption of their journals?

Re:Stable (1)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 13 years ago | (#505177)

Probably experimental. They wouldn't want to label it as stable unless they were dead certain, which they won't be until after they see what bugs 2.4.1 will inherently have (if from nothing else, being re-compiled).

Actually, given ReiserFS, definitely experimental.

Kierthos

Okaaaaay... (1)

AltGrendel (175092) | more than 13 years ago | (#505178)

...so where can I find more info on ResierFS?

Re:Stable (1)

commanderfoxtrot (115784) | more than 13 years ago | (#505179)

Well, ReiserFS is included in various distributions right now. I don't use it, because I'm on RedHat, which for me does everything I need. Can anyone actually using ReiserFS give any problems - any data loss?

Anyway, how easy is changing over from ext2- and if I were to run it how transparent is it to the user?

Other Journalling FS (3)

Helmholtz (2715) | more than 13 years ago | (#505180)

You don't seem to hear much about the other journalling filesystems, most notably JFS [ibm.com] and ext3 [kernel.org] . I would really like to see an article comparing the different filesystems ... including a walkthrough of patching the kernel, making the filesystem, etc ... perhaps I'll do one up this weekend.

[OT] Offtopic? (1)

Ilmari (17261) | more than 13 years ago | (#505181)

Why on earth is the parent of my post offtopic? Au contraire, I'd say it's one of the most on-topic 8th posts I've ever seen.

The topic is that of ReiserFS finally being included in the official, stable kernel, and chrisdb is curious as to wether it is as stable as the rest of the kernel, or still marked experimental...

© 2000 Ilmari. All ritghts reserved, all wrongs reversed

Very good news (2)

CaptainZapp (182233) | more than 13 years ago | (#505184)

After talking with various folks more knowledgeable then me (stability issues) I decided to use ReiserFS for the 15 Gig root partition on my laptop.

In a nutshell: it rocks

And not having to fsck a 15 Gig partition every umpteenth time saves a lot of time and nerves (have you noticed, that this always happens when when you're in a hurry ?)

Re:Other Journalling FS (1)

CaptainZapp (182233) | more than 13 years ago | (#505186)

From what I heard at Linuxworld (the Frankfurt, not the New York issue) the other journaling file systems are just not far enough advanced to use them productively.

I'm taking bets.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#505188)

I'm opening a book on how long it takes for GET_A_CLUE_SLASHDOT.TXT to appear in the folder :)

Thank you.

Re:Linus is violating his own submission policy .. (1)

jbert (5149) | more than 13 years ago | (#505195)

Sort of.

Bizarrely enough, a whole new filesystem doesn't count as 'infrastructure' in the sense of the kernel. If I've got the right end of the stick, each file system interfaces to the rest of the kernel through the VFS (well pretty much) so that no 'core' kernel changes when you add a new filesystem. (There are probably plenty of exceptions to this).

[This is one example of what people mean when they say that the kernel *is* object-oriented whenever people suggest coding it in C++.]

Re:Yes! (1)

LeonPierre (305002) | more than 13 years ago | (#505196)

While it took Be how long?

SGI's XFS rocks as well (4)

FreeUser (11483) | more than 13 years ago | (#505197)

I am using reiser at work (and quite like it for some things), but have recently begun experimenting with SGI's xfs [sgi.com] filesystem as well, and must say that thus far I am very, very impressed.

So impressed that, at home, I have migrated from reiserfs (the reiser 2.4.0 patch and the XFS cvs tree wouldn't coexist, though that will probably change now that reiser is in the official tree). For the video editing I'm doing XFS works very well, and the scalability is astounding!

The only thing that worries me is that SGI has commented that they "won't support competing standards" (paraphrased) if the community chooses something other than their work. While I applaud this stance in principle, I think for filesystems it is very misguided. Linux is designed to support a choice of many filesystem types, and it would be very unfortunate indeed if XFS were not among those choices. Reiser is great, ext3, JFS, etc. are probably fine, and XFS (even in beta form) is just plain awesome.

If anyone from SGI should be reading this, I hope you will not construe the inclusion of reiserfs in the official kernel tree to mean the community "has decided" on a standard, and that even if the community had, that work on XFS will continue. Hopefully, when it comes to chocies like which filesystem one prefers, there will never be a "standard," but rather a standard set of choices which will include ext2, xfs, reiser, and perhaps in the not too distant future one or two encrypted filesystems as well.

Re:Reiserfs is great.. and a warning... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#505199)

I remember Amiga modular devices. I was cd'ing into anything from lha archives to the window system's structure nearly a decade ago, thanks to add-on .device and -handlers

Re:Stable - Root Partition Howto (4)

leistnerm (73722) | more than 13 years ago | (#505200)

Here is a pretty good howto for moving your root partition to ReiserFS. I used it a while ago, and haven't had any problems since then. ReiserFS seems to run a little faster, and the short fsck times are definetly nice. http://kurt.andover.net/Reiser-filesystem-HOWTO.ht ml

Re:Large root partitions(was: Re:Very good news) (2)

f5426 (144654) | more than 13 years ago | (#505201)

> I'm probably gonna embarrass myselfe here

Of course not.

> From the four partitions, one goes to W2K (gak!), one is swap, one is /boot and the remaining one is /root.

> I'm sure there's a way around this, but I have no clue how.

The '4 partition limit' is on primary partitions. You can have as much logical partitions as you want (ie: those are a chained list of partition residing in a primary partition, called an 'extended' partition. In the pure Microsoft way of thinking, you can only have one extended partition). Techincally, you only need three primary partitions in your laptop: one for W2K, one for linux, and one for the extended partition.

Furthermore, linux is able to boot on non primary partitions.

And there are tools out there to hide/show partitions at boot (GRUB can do this for instance. I highly recommand GRUB over LILO), so you can have dozen of primary partitions, but only 4 existing at the same time.

Lastly, it may be possible to use bsd disklabels, which are ways to subdivise an existing partition. You could put linux in BSD slices, but this starts to be slightly more serious hacking (but is doable).

> Thanks for the hint, do you have a good pointer where to educate myself ?

Various man pages/HOWTO should do the trick.

Cheers,

--fred

Re:More info (2)

bluGill (862) | more than 13 years ago | (#505202)

journals are designed so this isn't an issue. That is you make sure the journal is committed before you write the data, then you erase the journal. There of course needs to be enough journal space so that you can have several going at once (once process writing data when anougher starts writting into it's journal) Harddrives can tell you when something is comitted to disk, so if the journal is corrupt (easy to tell) you ignore it as nothing is wrong with the data it was refering to. If the journal is fine you check the data (sectors) it refers to and do a fsck, but since only those sector can be corrupt those are the only ones you check, not the whole disk.

FreeBSD's softupdates achives the same ends, but with a completely different means.

Re:Dumb questions: Rolling back changes (1)

Flower (31351) | more than 13 years ago | (#505203)

No. No. No.No. As can be seen here [thinkgeek.com] . To quote:

There are no stupid questions, but there are a
LOT of inquisitive idiots.

Re:Linus is violating his own submission policy .. (1)

Mawbid (3993) | more than 13 years ago | (#505204)

Sorry if this is inaccurate, but I think it's mostly correct.

While adding a new fs is not an infrastructure change, adding a whole other breed of file systems, journalling filesystems, was. Changes to the VFS were required and I think old filesystems had to be modified a bit to adapt to them at one point. This took place a while ago though. Adding reiserfs to 2.4.1 won't cause additional changes in the VFS layer and neither should the addition of ext3, XFS, and all the rest.
--

Yes (2)

FreeUser (11483) | more than 13 years ago | (#505205)

I have used reiserfs successfully with both grub and lilo, running Mandrake 7.2.

As an aside, I have also used SGI's XFS (downloaded from cvs) successfully with lilo. Grub doesn't seem to like 2.4.0 at all with any filesystem type (the hang happens at the start of the kernel unpacking process and may be filesystem independent, but in any event ext2 and reiser fail equally), so I dumped it in favor of lilo for the time being and thus haven't tested it with XFS.

In short, in my experience either journalling filesystem works fine with lilo.

Re:Stable (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#505206)

Are they? Look at the history of ReiserFS. While I have no doubt it's working great for some people, it seems to have gone like this:

I've been using ReiserFS and it's GREAT!

What about it eating Postgres databases?
Oh, that's fixed. I've been using ReiserFS and it's GREAT!

What about the root hole?
Oh, that's fixed. I've been using ReiserFS and it's GREAT!

What about qmail?
Oh, that's fixed. I've been using ReiserFS and it's GREAT!

...
(Hopefully putting in the standard kernel will get it the real testing it needs.)

Hopefully so (was: Very good news) (2)

kinkie (15482) | more than 13 years ago | (#505207)

I hate to be the voice that doesn't sing along the choir lines, but I have to report problems with ReiserFS.

It was an SMP system (my corporate web-proxy), running ReiserFS on 2.2.1X, with 5 x 9 Gb disks

It rocked - until it stopped working at all. There was some race which locked the CPUs after at most one day of uptime. Granted, the box is plenty loaded, at the time was pretty low on RAM, etc etc etc.
Still, I had to revert to ext2 and it's been running perfectly since.

On the good side, I haven't had any problem on UP boxes or not-so-loaded systems (probably they just couldn't gather enough load to trigger the bug :-).

So I really hope that the problems are fixed, and that ReiserFS (possibly along with its "raw" variant, which has great promise for web-caches and news-servers) will be mainstream soon.

Re:HAH-hah! (1)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 13 years ago | (#505208)

Yeah, but lots of Microsoft customers have a policy that "We won't deploy until Service Pack X ships". Microsoft is of course aware of this, and rushes to get Service Pack X out as soon as possible. In the Win2K case, there were good testing reasons to hold some of the SP1 fixes out of release, but there were also good marketing reasons to get a service pack to market quickly.
--

Re:Other Journalling FS (1)

cgray4 (39638) | more than 13 years ago | (#505209)

The fact that the ext2 -> ext3 upgrade is so simple is what initially drew me to it. And now I can say "look ma, no fscks".

So it might be a kludge, but it's simple and it works.

Bad inodes with reiser/NFSv3 (1)

botemout (76083) | more than 13 years ago | (#505210)

Does anyone use reiser in combination with NFS? I have been for some time and (depending on the kernel version) get bad inodes (the file can't be read/stated). Anyone had the same problem (The problem is trivial to reproced and I've been surprised that more people haven't reported it).

I used 2.4.0-test8 for some time on my home NFS server (40gigs). Occationally, I'd get:
Dec 18 09:38:18 zdd kernel: vs-13048: eiserfs_iget: bad_inode. Stat data of (59369205036) not found
With 2.4.0, I got so many of these that I had to back out.

Re:Is ReiserFS really a Journalling filesystem? (1)

Russ Steffen (263) | more than 13 years ago | (#505211)

I beleive that is old information. While it is true that ReiserFS didn't start life as a journaled FS, it has evolved into one. AFAIK it has been at least meta-data journaled since verision 3.0 circa early 2000.

Distributions? (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 13 years ago | (#505212)

It's a neat tool, very useful indeed. The trouble I see, is that it won't make it into distributions soon. For Linux to be Out There, it has to be on the shelf/downloadable. For about 90% of the users, if it doesn't come on the RH/Slack/Mandrake/etc. CD, it doesn't exist.

Re:Yes! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#505213)

Huh? Windows ME doesn't even have a journaling FS! Solaris has only had since Solaris 7 (roughly 2.5 years old, IIRC) if you exclude Veritas (which is very expensive, although you do get a licence with storage arrays). NTFS has an incredibly bad habit of getting fragmented and killing performance. In short, linux hasn't got that bad a record (Reiser has been around for a while, although is hasn't always been that stable).

As for the GUI, what do you think Gnome [gnome.org] and KDE [kde.org] have been doing?

Back under your bridge, troll...

Re:Okaaaaay... (3)

abelsson (21706) | more than 13 years ago | (#505214)

www.namesys.com [namesys.com]

What else besides fsck? (1)

Aquafina (198114) | more than 13 years ago | (#505215)

Besides not having to go through a fsck everytime a system crashes, what other features will we get with this ReiserFS? Will we still be restricted to that "32,000 subdirectories" limit?

Re:Distributions? (2)

CaptainZapp (182233) | more than 13 years ago | (#505216)

This is only, because SuSE is not as widespread in the rest of the world, as compared to Europe.

SuSE 7.0 includes ReiserFS and ships with the 2.2.16 kernel.

Re:Very good news (3)

larien (5608) | more than 13 years ago | (#505217)

15GB? Lightweight! :) We have a 70GB RAID partition on our Solaris server. Having a journaled file system on that (Solaris 7 has UFS logging) makes life so much better on hard reboots (like when someone kicks out the power cable; grr....). The previous server could take 20 minutes to fsck about half that disk space; now it just boots up without any trouble.

This is why linux has not been the enterprise choice; when it costs you x thousand dollars for a minute of downtime, you want that server back up as quickly as possible. Now we just have to have the FS war; ext3, reiser, jfs, xfs....:)
--

Re:x86 only... (2)

benmhall (9092) | more than 13 years ago | (#505222)

Hmm.. not so! There is a working Alpha port (and likely others in the works..)

Oh, my main machine is an SMP x86, I've never had any SMP related issues (though there apparantly were some a while back

Ben

Re:Yes (1)

flux (5274) | more than 13 years ago | (#505223)

2.4.0-kernel boots just fine in my laptop, from a ext2-filesystem. (I have the reiser-support in kernel, but switching is such a pita.)

Re:Vulnerability in ReiserFS (1)

InfoSec (208475) | more than 13 years ago | (#505224)

Well, let's see. Did you even try this before you posted? I just ran that command on my ReiserFS partition, and it executed in under half a secong with no problems. They fixed this one already boys and girls!!!
Deven Phillips, CISSP
Network Architect
Viata Online, Inc.

Re:More info (2)

f5426 (144654) | more than 13 years ago | (#505226)

> You don't lose your file, the point of the Journal is quick and easy recovery. If you lost your file, you're no longer recovering it.

Last time I checked, rfs journal only meta-data modification. It is not a real transactional system, only a avoid-fsck thingy. Less interesting, but faster (you have to write before/after images in a transactional system)

Cheers,

--fred

Re:Very good news (1)

bencc99 (100555) | more than 13 years ago | (#505232)

I've been using reiserFS for a few months now - it's superb. It's not lost any data at all, recovers flawlessly from power failures, and is considerably faster than ext2. All in all, I'm impressed - sure, it's still not "complete", and could certainly do with conversion tools to and from ext2, but for all round reliability, and flexibility, it's great :)

Re:Distributions? (1)

g1t>>v (121036) | more than 13 years ago | (#505233)

ReiserFS *is* on the Mandrake CD. I installed my box (mandrake 7.1) without any ext2 partitions whatsoever, everything runs straight off reiserfs partitions.

Re:Stable (2)

QuMa (19440) | more than 13 years ago | (#505234)

If you're unlucky, anybody who can create a file on your reiser FS can get a bufferoverflow into kernelspace. (Ie: Free root for all). Not nice. YMMV.

Re:Distributions? (1)

danb35 (112739) | more than 13 years ago | (#505235)

As has already been pointed out, Mandrake 7.2 does include RieserFS. For that matter, so does SuSE 7.0 (possibly earlier versions too). It's (correctly) tagged experimental in Mandrake, but it's there.

Rock Solid (1)

CaptainZapp (182233) | more than 13 years ago | (#505236)

Alas, I reserve the right to reverse my opinion, since I only use it for a couple month. It appears to perform excellent an I haven't noticed any trouble at all. Ah and there's the LVM thingie which gives me the feeling that I can't only have the cake, but eat it too.

What prevented me to convert the desktop machine is the backup all your data bit, before conversion which is claimed not to provide any problems.

But then why should I backup my data ?

Re:Distributions? (1)

Chatterton (228704) | more than 13 years ago | (#505237)

ReiserFS is in Suse 7.0 with a 2.2.16 kernel (not sure, i don't remember). You can't set it up in the /boot partition but all others. I don't have any problem with ReiserFS on my / partition to now. The point is if they put it in the 7.0 version with a 2.2 kernel, I don't see any reason to not put it in the next version with a 2.4 kernel.
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