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China Says Its Internet Policies Are Open and Clear

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the do-as-we-say-not-as-we-do dept.

Censorship 181

itwbennett writes "Responding to a U.S. request to explain China's policies regarding blocking U.S. websites, China's foreign ministry said the country's Internet policies have been open and clear. 'The Chinese government encourages and actively supports the Internet's development and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China,' said Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu. 'We welcome foreign companies to invest and develop here, and we will continue to foster an open policy market.' The request, filed under World Trade Organization rules, is an effort to understand the trade impact of such blocking after a number of U.S. businesses have made complaints about access to their websites in China."

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181 comments

They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (1)

ebusinessmedia1 (561777) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785322)

Act first, apologize later is how that regime acts! They're pathetic.

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (1)

LifesABeach (234436) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785452)

I recall a South Park episode, I believe the Chinese forgot to make positive reference to our reproductive biology.

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37785482)

No, I'd say their policies are very open and clear. "Disagree with us, you and your family die for the glory of the country".

I didn't say they allowed open or clear access, but those policies sure are open and clear!

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786222)

Where's Michael Kristopeit when we need him?
We just need to channel him away from slashdot users to foreign affairs commentary.

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786874)

Where's Michael Kristopeit when we need him?
We just need to channel him away from slashdot users to foreign affairs commentary.

Screw Micheal, we need Dr. Bob! Only by treating subluxations can we cure China!

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (3, Insightful)

TechLA (2482532) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786480)

I would say that US is more pathetic. At least China keeps it within their own region. US takes it everywhere with ACTA, DMCA and actually making Verisign and ICANN remove domains for copyright infringement. China filters and doesn't affect other countries.

Regardless, the summary here is again written in such a manner that it's only there to gain responses like "fuck China!". They *are* very open about their policies. US less so, where everything seems to be done secretly. ACTA has been and is being pushed secretly too. Chinese people also want that kind of controlling of the internet. They know you can't change everything at once or it will lead to even more larger problems. They're slowly changing, but you can't do it at once, and people understand it. It's funny you Americans promote the idea of democracy but then want to force people of other countries to do as you do. Why can't let the Chinese choose themselves?

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786780)

The Chinese government is a one-party system. A repressive regime that crushes dissent by force and by censorship - they do whatever they have to maintain a tight grip, and have done so for decades. If you don't believe me, try organizing a large-scale protest against the governemt and see how it goes.

If you brainwash people for decades into believing that censorship is good for them, and then ask them if they like it, of course they're going to say that they do. That's not a legitimate defense for the government's policies.

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (1)

TechLA (2482532) | more than 2 years ago | (#37787144)

Yeah, doesn't seem like you know anything about the history of China.

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (2)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 2 years ago | (#37787614)

China doesn't push for ACTA and such because they don't give a rat's ass if they're pirating software from the rest of the world. Hell, they practically depend on piracy, knockoffs, etc from the west. I also find it funny that they are open about these policies when TFS said "The Chinese government encourages and actively supports the Internet's development and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China", which is such outright bullshit that you wonder why they even bother spinning this shit anymore. You think it's due to China actually WANTING change on the human rights front? Are you kidding me? The party does it to remain in power. It's that simple. Yes, China needs to sort out its own problems, and yes, the US is far from perfect, but really, you're off the deep end here.

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (1)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786752)

How come is the WTO getting involved? I bet someone told them China blocked their eBay store, or something like that. That is something that might really upset the WTO. And then China responded, knowing the exact words to soothe the capitalist organization, no, no, we're not blocking eBay stores, in fact you can come to China to start your own eBay store yourself, we'll even give you tax breaks if you want.

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 2 years ago | (#37787432)

Just like the US gov removing .com and .net domains however they like. Just as unclear.

At least the Chinese gov isn't being a hypocrite, something the US government is guilty of multiple times for decades.

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (1)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 2 years ago | (#37787628)

"The Chinese government encourages and actively supports the Internet's development and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China"

Right, because that's perfectly true and not hypocritical in the slightest.

Re:They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (1)

maugle (1369813) | more than 2 years ago | (#37787654)

At least the Chinese gov isn't being a hypocrite

Can you really say that with a straight face? They just said they protect the freedom of expression of their citizens! I don't think they've ever not cracked down on any expression that's critical of how things are being run.

Free and open internet in China? (2)

ToiletBomber (2269914) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785330)

Bullshit.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (3, Insightful)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785466)

Ya, 99% chance it's BS. However, with nasty inflation hitting all the major cities in China (food now costs as much as here in the US), perhaps they're begging for foreign investment again. But that's purely conjecture on my part.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37785578)

Yeah, word on the street in china is that Chinese banks are in a bad loan bubble that makes ours look like chump change. All of that massive growth they've been experiencing is basically funded on funny money. A fraud silently allowed by the PRC because anything less than 10% annual growth will have their regime kicked out on the wave of a revolution.

You think you've seen debt? You haven't seen /shit/ until china's economy implodes.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785844)

Like the truth, China has three records of book keeping. What China actually has, what they're telling the public, and what everyone suspects they have. I tend to agree. Their entire system is built on cooking the books to epic proportions. And I can smell the burning half-way around the word.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (1)

similar_name (1164087) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786224)

Relatively recently [bnet.com] China allowed the Yuan to float and it has gotten stronger since. 6.38 CNY to 1 USD [lse.co.uk] from 6.82 when it was first allowed to float.. Last year they had a trade surplus with the U.S. of nearly $300 billion. We know this because we know what our deficit was [co.uk.business].We know [treasury.gov] China owns 1.1 trillion in U.S. treasury bonds.

I admit that I may have information bias so I'm interested in the reverse idea.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786326)

Sure, we've all know they've been under-valuing their own currency in order to undercut the global market for products and services. Of course the Chinese citizens aren't too happy about it, but their government sure does. All that money flowing into the coffers only to be redistributed how they see politically fit (cronyism for state owned corporate investment).

No, the real problem is the real estate market. That's a bubble just waiting to pop. It's huge! Much bigger than anything that happened in the US. Admittedly, I'm surprised it hasn't already popped. But I suppose ironically, the very government that caused the problem has the central authority to stop it as well. Well as they say. That's China.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37785660)

Hmm, I'm in Beijing right now and I would say that food here is about 1/15th of what it costs in the US.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (1)

Bucky24 (1943328) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785792)

But how do wages compare? AFAIK wages in China tend to be less than wages in the US, so of course things will cost less. How do the costs of food compare relative to the average wage?

Re:Free and open internet in China? (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785808)

I hear the story is much different in Shanghai by friends I know currently living their. They can't stop talking about. *shrug*.

Inflation prices in my hometown (3, Interesting)

qwerty765 (2438276) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786342)

Inflation not just hit all cities in china, but also villages too. From my visit to my hometown, I noticed that one kilogram of eggs, last year, was 4 yuans. Now it is 10 yuans. When my wife was in high school, an egg roll snack would cost 2.5 yuans. Now it is 6 yuans. I fully support Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu as she is looking out for the interests of Chinese citizens. I am proud of China for what it is - capitalistic, energetic, and full of opportunities.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (1)

Kvasio (127200) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785794)

more open than in France, where you cannot discuss illegal actions by police anymore [techpresident.com]

Re:Free and open internet in China? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786024)

The fact that the French media reports it is still better than the Chinese government ordering state media to not talk about it and blacklisting/arresting those who do.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786322)

Ok, so because some country is more totalitarian than others it make it okay when one is only "slightly" totalitarian?

Re:Free and open internet in China? (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786472)

While not "okay", it's still worlds "better" then China. Your comparison is akin to comparison between Jack the Ripper and a truck driver who fell asleep behind the wheel killing a prostitute standing on the curb as a result.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786718)

Its not better at all. Once you let things slide its only a matter of time before one remorseless truck driver just does whatever the hell he wants, and starts sleeping whenever he feels like it, running over prostitutes since he keeps getting easy treatment and after all, "They are just prostitutes". Sociopaths will always win if you let them since they don't empathize nor understand what harm their actions can cause.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 2 years ago | (#37787380)

/ . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept

And the fact that your post equates France with China is good evidence for that.

Re:Free and open internet in China? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37787638)

Slippery slope fallacy.

Its simple to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37785364)

Its very simple and clear:
1) Say something bad about use and we throw you in a dark hole
2) Piss us off in the process and we shoot you

Done!

Re:Its simple to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37785464)

Its very simple and clear:
1) Say something bad about use and we throw you in a dark hole
2) Piss us off in the process and we shoot you and harvest your organs.

Fixed that for you.

Re:Its simple to me (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786070)

Before an apologist comes in:
This applies if you attempt to form a Tea Party or Occupy Wall Street gathering.

This applies if you use the law against a multinational where you have overwhelming evidence that you will win.

This applies if you look at a Party official the wrong way.

What The ??? (1)

zero.kalvin (1231372) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785418)

This morning that crazy Italian MP and now this, what the fuck is going on today with the world ???

Re:What The ??? (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785596)

Same thing that has been going on for the past 3000+ years.

Now we have nukes, though.

Re:What The ??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37785648)

Oh please.
People didn't have rights until 200 years ago. Therefore, governments abusing people's rights could not have gone on for 3000 years.

Stop acting like this is a problem we can't solve because "it's always been this way and always will be". And if you're really too cynical to act, then at least don't discourage those who are willing to try and make things improve. Or maybe you're just shilling for the US government?

Re:What The ??? (1)

mosb1000 (710161) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785776)

Just because governments didn't recognize them doesn't mean people didn't have them.

Re:Just because governments didn't recognize them (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786296)

Nope.

Whatever a government recognizes is what rights you get. All rights are "alienable". You 'deserve' nothing.

It's only what the greater education of a government agrees upon is what you get for rights. Some folks up top found the awesome trifecta to crush us with because they dare us to be "against terrorism", "Against protecting children" and your choice of a third.

Look at that Computer Black Box proposed. That's the attempt at a Grand Slam. Who knows what a Black Box records.

I know now what 2012 is, it's the collision of all this social tech tension. The Mayans nailed it to the year.

Re:What The ??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786022)

What about the Italian MP? Imagine I have been living under a rock for a few hours.

Best Part (1)

mattventura (1408229) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785480)

and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China

I can't even come up with a response to this.

Re:Best Part (1)

ddxexex (1664191) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785556)

and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China

I can't even come up with a response to this.

I'm pretty sure there's a quote that basically says that in Soviet Poland (?) There is freedom of speech, but in the US there is freedom after speech.

Re:Best Part (1)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785588)

Sure you can - just remember to take deep breaths every so often, between bouts of furious laughter. It's all in the diaphragm.

Re:Best Part (1)

Megahard (1053072) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785598)

and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China

I can't even come up with a response to this.

1984.

Re:Best Part (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37785610)

and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China

I can't even come up with a response to this.

The Chinese citizens are free to express their adulation for the Party and the country. They are even free to express their non-committal views.

Re:Best Part (4, Insightful)

fliptout (9217) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785884)

Well, the truth is that many Chinese citizens want this type of censorship to protect them. Most Chinese are conditioned to think that the harmony of the state takes precedence over all else. It follows that any major source of chaos needs to be stamped out.

I doubt most slashdotters or even most Westerners realize this critical cultural difference. Like it or now, that is the type of thinking you are up against. Conventional wisdom in China says that change is slow, because there are so many people and a lot of cultural inertia.

Change is coming to China, very slowly. All those Chinese with elite foreign education are returning to China, and those returning chafe at restricted internet access and other abridged privileges (unless they're in government).

On another note, in Chinese intellectual circles a common discussion is how to manage the decline of the West. We (Westerners) need to become more sophisticated in how we spar with our friendly adversaries.

well what about there workers rights (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786066)

There factories are like the very OLD US with no safety, have to pay for on site room and board, working off the clock, and other stuff.

Re:Best Part (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786106)

I can:

lolololololololololololololololololololololol

China- you have never made me laugh so hard...

The Chinese Constitution prevents freedom (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786160)


Article 54. It is the duty of citizens of the People's Republic of China to safeguard the security, honour and interests of the motherland; they must not commit acts detrimental to the security, honour and interests of the motherland.

Article 55. It is the sacred obligation of every citizen of the People's Republic of China to defend the motherland and resist aggression. It is the honourable duty of citizens of the People's Republic of China to perform military service and join the militia in accordance with the law.

Imagine the Patriot Act on a massive dose of despotic steroids, as a Constitutional Amendment. That is Article

Re:The Chinese Constitution prevents freedom (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786552)

It's worth noting that "article 55" is true for Finland and Switzerland. Two countries that you could argue to be far more "free" and "democratic" then US. We have universal conscription, and it's largely viewed as an honor to serve your country.
Of course we have a history of having to defend our sovereignty with armed forces rather then using army to project interests of our country outside our borders.

Article 54 on the other hand is present in pretty much any modern state. It's the law against treason, which in most Western states still carries very heavy penalties. Wording may be different, but meaning is exactly the same.

Re:The Chinese Constitution prevents freedom (1)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786928)

It's worth noting that the US used to require universal militia service as well. The Militia Act of 1792 required that all white men of military age keep serviceable rifles/muskets (it was literally illegal not to own a gun) and a certain minimum number of cartridges therefore and report to militia musters on a regular schedule.

Sadly we as a society rapidly grew too lazy to continue this extremely healthy practice.

Re:The Chinese Constitution prevents freedom (1)

Ltap (1572175) | more than 2 years ago | (#37787168)

Or, alternatively, militias were made obsolete by modern professional armies and are now rather quaint. The time when a war could be fought with the weapons and combat experience any given citizen had is long past. The only purpose this would serve would be to give random people combat training, even ones who do not want it. As well, arguing that the USA needs much of a military for self-defense is laughable -- the USA's military is used almost entirely in other countries, with the exclusion of the National Guard. There is simply no need for a military in self-defense, which is why, for much of its history, the USA more or less had none other than its navy.

Well, they ARE open and clear... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37785516)

... in that it's no secret if you engage in activities deemed to be subversive, you will disappear.

Don't misread this. (1)

dmomo (256005) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785542)

Don't be mistaken. It's the policy that is open, this says nothing about the Internet. The policy of censorship can openly the non-openness of the Internet.

Its None Of Your Business Anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37785592)

The Chinese people and government have made the decision that they do not have western style freedoms such as free speech.

I say, so what? Why is it your concern? If you don't live or work in China, it doesn't affect you in any way shape or form. Why is their such much angst over something that doesn't concern you?

I say, butt out and mind your own fucking business.

John Steinbeck would like a word (1)

jeko (179919) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785918)

The Chinese people and government have made the decision that they do not have western style freedoms such as free speech.

Actually, the Chinese people demanded those Human -- not just "Western" -- rights in Tiananmen Square [wikipedia.org] in 1989. The Government sent tanks against them. Best guesses are that at least 3,000 people were murdered.

It concerns me. This is my business. All men are brothers. Those men were my brothers. Those three thousand martyrs in the cause of Freedom are "Americans" in the truest sense and finest traditions of the word. I stand ashamed that MY government has forgotten them and betrayed their sacrifice.

Re:John Steinbeck would like a word (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786564)

Why do you worry about 3.000 in China tens of years ago, but not millions dying in Africa so that West and China get their cheap oil and other natural resources? By your admission, all men are brothers, so surely the millions CURRENTLY dying would warrant thousands of times more attention at the very least?

It made an impression (1)

jeko (179919) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786632)

I watched Tiananmen as it happened, so yes, it made an impression. As for the others, you'd see a radically different world if I were in charge. :-)

Re:It made an impression (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786934)

Likely you would fall to the same vices, corruption or self-delusions as anyone else. It's easier to say you could make things better, then through your own ignorance fuck things up even worse. I sincerely doubt you are capable of understanding : economics, finance, engineering, mathematics, science, sociology, psychology, religion, law, and medicine all at once to a sufficient level that would make you a capable ruler. You need a severe reality check.. brother.

Re:John Steinbeck would like a word (1)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786966)

Africans are dying first and foremost because their governments are corrupt. They're the ones taking the resources from foreign aid for themselves. The influence of the West and China is at least slightly positive for the local economies, but that can't erase the fact that the nations are run by unscrupulous parasites.

Unless you're willing to support wholesale 'regime change' across the continent, stop pretending you've got any moral cachet.

Just a memorized excuse to apologize for China (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786244)

That excuse has been replayed so many times that it has to be written down as an official excuse of the PRC.

Likewise with China and the US. Since China hasnt left the US alone (Lenovo acquisition, CNOOC attempted acquisition, various attempts to buy influence with the Chamber of Commerce), attacks on China are fair game.

Re:Its None Of Your Business Anyway (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786594)

The issue is that there's almost 1.5 billion of them. About 1/6 of entire planet's population. If they adapt a more sociologically efficient totalitarian system, they will outcompete us (as in West), significantly increasing the risk of us eventually switching to totalitarian system ourselves to be able to compete better.

Liar (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37785678)

There's too much to say, about the f*cking censorship.

Here is one I discovered recently - I cannot download Python, I can open python.org, but when heading to python.org/download, I always get a connection reset.

Shouldn't this be in the idle section? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37785702)

Since we all know this is a lie...

Freedom of Expression (1)

macjn (785842) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785826)

I'm sure this "freedom of expression" includes all Chinese citizens' right and ability to comment on Tiananmen Square. Oh wait, you'd actually need to *know* about Tiananmen Square to express how you feel about it. Seems to me freedom of expression is hollow and meaningless without a the ability to freely get at any information you want. But that's me, I guess.

What is the sound (0)

blair1q (305137) | more than 2 years ago | (#37785922)

What is the sound of 1.33 billion people laughing their little yellow asses off?

Off by population size (1)

qwerty765 (2438276) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786462)

What is the sound of 1.33 billion people laughing their little yellow asses off?

Nope, it is 1.4 billion people laughing off. Perhaps you need to catch up with news fast.

Open and Clear despotism (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786020)


"Responding to a U.S. request to explain China's policies regarding blocking U.S. websites, China's foreign ministry said the country's Internet policies have been open and clear. '

It's open and clear that if you speak up against the Chinese government, a Party member, or a western multinational, you will be imprisoned. If you persist, you will die, the family will be billed for the execution(whether by bullet or execution truck), with possible harvesting of organs.


The Chinese government encourages and actively supports the Internet's development and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China,' said Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu.

Only if it doesnt interfere with Articles 54 and 55 of the
PRC's Constitution [peopledaily.com.cn]. Then those technologies are used to bring people into compliance by force.


'We welcome foreign companies to invest and develop here, and we will continue to foster an open policy market.'

Only if they allow China's home market to copy the foreign technology or use it to more efficiently put down dissidents.

(Before you wish to mod me into oblivion, consider the actions that China has done - instead of stating that I dont understand.)

Re:Open and Clear despotism (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786288)

The Chinese are notoriously obvious liars when it comes to their government statements. They also put tend to be uncompromising in issues between themselves and another nation that would yield easy and beneficial compromises to both nations. Then they make threats they will never live up to. I don't know if its a cultural thing, but I have noticed Chinese students also cheat their asses off in classes to get ahead rather than honestly go to the professor and ask for help. I've met some decent and honest Chinese people through working in the University system as an RA, and I am not racist in the slightest even though I can see that most people will assume that from my response, but I have also seen them totally ignore their university peers that aren't Chinese and collaborate together to cheat on tests and copy homework on more than one occasion, and the groups of people were not the same. I am probably slightly bigoted in that I don't like the ways certain cultures handle things, but as far as I am concerned we are all the same species and have similar mental and physical capabilities across the board +/- evolutionary advantages each race has based on the environment their ancestors came from.

Re:Open and Clear despotism (1)

crutchy (1949900) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786666)

all governments lie when it is in their interest, and the US government is by no means a beacon of honesty.

the chinese government is also keeping the US from going bankrupt, so maybe they should be a little more appreciative.

Re: "they make threats they will never live up to" ... i would look at this as being a good thing, as if china had the same foreign policy as the US we would have another world war due to "incompatibility" of US and Chinese policies

if america loves freedom so much, perhaps they should honour the freedom of other nations to govern themselves however they see fit. if chinese people don't like the way they're governed, they will revolt. just because americans don't understand chinese culture doesn't give them the right to change it.

Re:Open and Clear despotism (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786870)

The Chinese are keeping us from going bankrupt, and meanwhile going bankrupt themselves. Not once did I say anything that your response even made sense for other than the "lying" part, and I do acknowledge politicians lie. Its just that the Chinese have absolutely no ability to make it seem like truth, then they threaten without weight and act like they are somehow superior to everyone else which is basically the same way a fucking egotistical moron with no higher brain function acts. Im not advocating change for another nation since I don't give a damn, nor did I even say anything related. Its not my responsibility to man-up and get killed so that a group of people won't even bother to fight for themselves. You have to start caring more about your own neighborhood when the shit hits the fan since there is no way to help others when your resources are being spread so thin that everyone will starve. In my post, I am advocating that if you come here you are expected to behave a certain way if you expect the same privileges as everyone else. You had the choice to come here, you could have stayed where you came from and dealt with the issues you face day to day however you see fit. I never once said that the US should get involved in other nation's business, however your examples I believe you are mentioning are quite poor. In order to maintain the standard of living self-entitled Americans who bitch, moan and "vote" are accustomed to in the US, we must secure "energy". This energy is oil and there is a whole hell of a lot of it located overseas in the areas we choose to intervene with. Communism, i.e. USSR, threatened our "energy" supply during the cold war because they were a major consumer of it, just like us. This is the motivation for crushing out communism and interfering. If you would like to live in a cottage with your grandparents, parents, siblings, and children, while your family and the majority of the US population starves then by all means, lets just forget oil even exists and is the easiest energy source to get and stop meddling in other oil producing nation's business. I suggest you read articles from this blog to gain some perspective before you spout drivel. http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/ [ucsd.edu]

Re:Open and Clear despotism (1)

radicalskeptic (644346) | more than 2 years ago | (#37787602)

"The Chinese are notoriously obvious liars when it comes to their government statements." It's not just the government, friend.

It's not racist to point out that a culture has flaws. What I think a lot of Westerners don't understand about China is that it's not just like this government was created in a vacuum; the corruption, lying, cheating and general lack of ethical and moral scruples are facets of modern Chinese culture that also happen to manifest themselves in their government.

Can they be open about there high speed rail syste (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786090)

Can they be open about there high speed rail system?

What about the full report on that high-speed train crash?

Their policies *are* open and clear (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786146)

Chinas' internet policies *are* open and clear! They are very open with their policies, and very clear with their policies!
Eg: Its very clear that they will block any sites they deem detrimental to the communist party, the state, the army or anything else they deem inappropriate. They are quite open with this policy. They will tell anyone who asks, and will even inform people who didn't ask. Its their *internet* that isn't open or clear, but their *internet policies* are very open and clear. Call it semantics if you like, or even pedantic, but its true. I have every expectation that is exactly what they meant.

Re:Their policies *are* open and clear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37787074)

Well, I thought that too until I read the summary. They're not exactly protecting anyone's freedom of expression here.

More concise translation to follow: (3, Informative)

kheldan (1460303) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786226)

'The Chinese government encourages and actively supports the Internet's development and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China,'

Translation: 'The Chinese government encourages and actively supports the Internet's development as a State-controlled and censored network and we also protect the State-monitored and scripted freedom of expression of citizens in China,'

'We welcome foreign companies to invest and develop here, and we will continue to foster an open policy market.'

Translation: 'We welcome foreign companies to invest and develop here as long as they conform to State-mandated censorship policies and anything else we care to dictate to them, and we will continue to foster the illusion of an open policy market.'


..and before any of you decide to moderate me down as a "Troll": Yes, I strongly dislike the Chinese government, and would sooner trust the word of some strung-out meth-head with the DT's than anything they would say -- and furthermore I think you're a fool if you think otherwise.

Re:More concise translation to follow: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786682)

100% agree with you there...but only 87.5% agree with you if you said the same about the US, "and scripted" is something that takes creativity, planning, a single agenda the state agrees on...I just don't see that in the US government.

Re:More concise translation to follow: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786846)

Translation: we are looking for a lower cost solution to try and hack your systems

or

Translation: we have to many firewall rules and cant find the right rule to undo..

Re:More concise translation to follow: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37787218)

Translation: 'We welcome foreign companies to invest and develop here as long as they conform to State-mandated censorship policies and anything else we care to dictate to them, and we will continue to foster the illusion of an open policy market.'

Of course they want the companies to follow the law, every civilized country works like that. You may disagree with their censorship laws, but getting mad at them because they make people follow the law doesn't make sense.

But of course ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786518)

The policies are open but not their Internets

Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786526)

Why does the Chinese government need to make internet access open for US companies? Did I miss the headline about China becoming another US state or is China still a sovereign nation free to make up its own policies?

"America, fuck yeah! Coming again, to save the mother fucking day yeah!"

Re:Why? (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 2 years ago | (#37787564)

Why does the Chinese government need to make internet access open for US companies?

Because China bitched and moaned until the WTO made them a member, being a member of the WTO means your bound by WTO rules.

Open and Clear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786670)

Up is Down, Right is Left, Black is White.

Notice any resemblance to the current administration...?

Time to officially classify the thing (2)

FyberOptic (813904) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786830)

This is part of the reason why the internet here in America needs to be officially declared as a utility, much like the telephone, so that companies and the government are unable to filter or censor it, or to give certain companies advantages over others in what travels across it.

Seriously, the internet is in 75+% of homes by now. I bet when the telephone was considered a utility, it was still in far fewer homes than that. What's the difference?

Widget salesman (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786862)

Widget salesman says widgets are great.

All the nations are guilty (2)

msobkow (48369) | more than 2 years ago | (#37786876)

All the nations engage in censorship. It doesn't justify it, but what's the difference between:

  • China censoring dissent
  • US police forces attacking peaceful Occupy protestors expressing their constitutional right to be heard
  • The BBC tailoring their news content based on your access country
  • Global media suppression of the messages brought forth by the Occupy protestors, with claims that no one knows what they want

Re:All the nations are guilty (1)

misosoup7 (1673306) | more than 2 years ago | (#37787398)

Agreed, all countries censor, just to a different extend. China does it much more so and openly than most other nations out there.

Of course blocking twitter and other social media that is not state controlled is a great idea for China. When you have to manage over 1.2 billion people, it's very very hard to make everyone happy. The US only has 300+ million and it's already hard for congress to agree on anything. Now if you make that 4 times as many people, it's even hard to agree. And as a single party state, you must make it as hard as possible for people to riot and try to brainwash them into being complacent. This leads to all sorts of Human Rights violations, but what kind you do if you don't want a social meltdown?

A lot of people talk about "democracy" for China as if China can just jump to a multi-party system and everything will magically be better. However, reality doesn't work like that. Switching forms of government will always create large amounts of turmoil, both socially and economically. Socially because not everyone will be happy with the new form of government and the policies instituted. This will often lead to splitting of the state given a weak central government. Economically because businesses do not know what policies the new government will implement and the social turmoil. Business tend to be very conservative given economic uncertainty (you can see if very well currently in the US and Europe, businesses are not hiring and not spending on acquisitions).

Backwards speech. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37786938)

They don't "protect" a damn thing.

If you support free expression of the people, STOP FUCKING WITH THEIR INTERNET.

Obviously if they said or posted something, THATS THEIR FREE EXPRESSION.

Oh why are the slit eyed nations so focused on doublespeak and oppression. Pitiful.

Open and Clear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37787190)

It's the opposite of clear, even the ISPs have trouble telling the difference between a network outage and governmental interference. We quite often call them up to get them to help us identify what the issue is.

The only reason I can see they are doing this subtle blocking is to make the local population believe that these foreign services are unreliable. When I first got here, it was common opinion that google docs was unreliable, slow and had many outages (something thats just not true). A short list of other ones: Amazon AWS - blocked in 20 minute segments several times a week. gmail being throttled so that it is excessively slow. gmail being blocked. Google search terms (nothing sensitive) being blocked. VPN ports being throttled (and or blocked). The only style of VPN that seems to reliably work here is OpenVPN running on port 80.

Re:Open and Clear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37787490)

Google search terms (nothing sensitive) being blocked. VPN ports being throttled (and or blocked.

Nothing sensitive like the terms democracy, freedom, Tibet, Falun Gong ?

Re:Open and Clear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37787622)

Google search terms (nothing sensitive) being blocked. VPN ports being throttled (and or blocked.

Nothing sensitive like the terms democracy, freedom, Tibet, Falun Gong ?

I can actually understand why twitter and facebook are blocked here. In a country where you have an enormous divide between the large very low wage earning class (migrant workers) and the middle class causes a lot of unrest and without being able to control the spread of information it's very easy for a small group to organise large riots (look at what happened in london recently). Not all of these are strictly beneficial for the common good. Is a large riot going to help people to increase the standard of living? probably not. Unlike other single party systems run by other countries, China's government actually does work, does invest in infrastructure, education and is improving the standard of living year by year. Issues such as corruption is institutionalised, but I don't think there is any easy fix for that.

Words like democracy and freedom have specific meanings but in practice does even the US have true democracy when large corporations are allowed to lobby and provide huge funds to presidential candidates? Do individuals really have that much power?

.. he said, it being Chinese National Opposite Day (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37787388)

of course....

The Chinese Government have no morals or ethics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37787610)

The Chinese goverment uses anyone and anything they want to their end. To do that, they have to be complete liars and thieves, which they are. They steal our technology, use little girls for political purposes by stealing them from their familes, and steal information from anyone to subjogate their population. There is absolutely nothing a Chinese politician can say that isn't a 100% absolute lie. Of course, then there is our politicians and the last two democratic presidents that were professional liars....

Policy is; Access isn't (1)

fatp (1171151) | more than 2 years ago | (#37787660)

The policy is "all Internet access is censored, not open and not clear". This policy is open and clear.

problems hit closer to home (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37787670)

I think us Americans should be more concerned about what's happening with our great democratic allies such as the French [slashdot.org], with random censorship that would make Chairman Mao proud, than to worried about the godless commies in China.

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