Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

386 comments

Do not want (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37822874)

unless I can install an alternate OS and have hardware level access.

Re:Do not want (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37822950)

Yea, what you're looking for is not a game console, I believe it's called a com pew tur or something like that.

Re:Do not want (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823118)

It's a Kommie Putter. See it's like Golf, but Russian instead of Scottish, but with no grass since it's too cold.

Re:Do not want (1, Offtopic)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823306)

How many people can play Brawl on one Wii console at once? Four. How many people can play a game on one PC at once? Typically one, due to publishers wanting families to buy two to four copies of a game [cracked.com] for multiplayer.

Re:Do not want (1)

Zaphod The 42nd (1205578) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823174)

Even if they let you install an alternate OS, they'll just change their minds in a firmware update a few weeks later.

Re:Do not want (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823270)

The point of a console. Is that everything is given to you in a nice little box.
The Hardware is balanced for affordability and high performance gaming. Meaning the CPU doesn't need to be Uber fast when your GPU is the slowest part. So you can get hardware balanced for gaming. The same thing with the OS if the box is designed for high end gaming have a generic all purpose OS doesn't make much sense, and giving low level access to the end user is a good way for the average gamer to make things worse.
 

Weird abstract... (5, Insightful)

FaxeTheCat (1394763) | more than 2 years ago | (#37822878)

>bored with the current generation of game hardware

If the gamers are bored with the game hardware, they may find it immensely more interesting to start playing games on it.

Re:Weird abstract... (2)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823022)

I enjoy my games immensly on the 360, but i cant help but wonder what new hardware would allow for. The 360 has some serious improvements over the 1st gen xbox, both in terms of graphics and what it can do gameplay wise (physiscs, amount of objects on screen etc.), recently with forza 4, i got a very good taste of what the 360 is really capable off, but i couldnt help but wonder, if 2005 era hardware (and let's be honest, in 2005 my PC was stronger then the 360 already) can pull this off, what would be possible with a console built on todays technology?

It's not that i'm bored with the 360, i just am curious about what todays hardware could do, and it's been so long since i last brought home a new console, and had that sense of excitement of hooking up a new console and firing up a new game.

Re:Weird abstract... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823064)

But as you said, your PC was better than the consoles when they were released. You can already see what today's hardware can do - on your PC.

Re:Weird abstract... (1)

AdamJS (2466928) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823122)

Except you can't, because pretty much every game is designed in such a way as to be mainly playable on consoles without much drop in quality. So average PC hardware, which is tens to hundreds of times more powerful than the current console generation, isn't taken advantage of at all. Even games like Battlefield 3 are held back by console platforms.

Re:Weird abstract... (1)

nomel (244635) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823826)

Actually, Battlefield 3 is the only example you could use that is actually wrong. They went all out for PC, as mentioned in this interview [alienwarearena.com] .

Re:Weird abstract... (1)

jgagnon (1663075) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823138)

Talk to the game makers and ask them why they are not making games for your modern PC hardware.

Re:Weird abstract... (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823490)

There are a couple games that take good advantage of PC hardware. Just Cause 2 was pretty good at it, although not the best. Metro 2033 had hardware tessellation (DX11) graphics, something none of the consoles can do, and so did Stalker: Call of Pripyat. And of course, The Witcher 2 was looked amazing IMO, far and away better than anything any console has done yet.

Actually I think the bigger problem is PCs themselves. A lot of them are pretty old and don't support the newest features, so if you want your game to run on them you can't make your game support the latest and greatest from the ground up, you have to tack it on at the end. So games that do support advanced graphical features often don't take full advantage of them, because they would have to make what amounts to multiple engines to do so. This is one reason I mentioned Just Cause 2: it actually required DX10, so they could support some of those graphical features. Didn't totally nail it, but got pretty close. Most games only require DX9.0c, meaning they can't be built with (for instance) tessellation as a primary feature.

On the other hand, console games, even the best ones, look like crap compared to the same game on a modern PC. The worst is the PS3, which seems to barely support anti-aliasing (I remember looking at the PS3 Bioshock and thinking: "really? No AA in this day and age?")

Re:Weird abstract... (1)

robmv (855035) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823230)

More FPSs and remakes in "True" HD of HD games for PS3 and XBox360. I am not desperately waiting for a new consoles generation. The more fun games I played this generation are PSN games that do not require so much GPU power, like both Echochrome games, Pixeljunk games and many others. Not that I not love games like Uncharted, Battlefield, Gran Turismo ... those games will be/are amazing with better hardware, but the fun is not proportional to graphics for me

Re:Weird abstract... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823646)

Shader physics.

  At the moment, games (even on PC) can't really take advantage of GPGPU capabilities because they can't assume the users PC has those capabilities. A new console generation with a Liano type setup would allow a lot more in terms of environmental interactivity, which would be good for anything from racers (debris hazards, decent vehicle damage models, etc) to platformers (think Soul Reaver style puzzle solving, but without the empty world) to action games (horde AI, or just plain old environment destructibility).

Of course, this assumes that a new console generation actually does this, and does this properly. Cell never lived up to the hype, and if just one of the main contenders in the next round of consoles doesn't have support, then developers won't use it.

Re:Weird abstract... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823716)

what would be possible with a console built on todays technology?

Just look at the iPhone 4S! It's a next generation console, today!

At least, it is inside the RDF. No, seriously! Apple tried to market the iPhone 4S as a next-gen console in their little "let's talk about iPhone" keynote thing, claiming that it has "better than console" graphics and showing off some Unreal-based iPhone game.

(The reality: the graphics chip they used caught them up with current Android phones, and about the only console it can claim "better graphics" than is the Wii. And only on resolution.)

Re:Weird abstract... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823444)

Most PS3 and 360 games are less than 640px deep. They are upscaled by internal scalers, mostly to 720p, this is then scaled again by HDTVs up to their native 1080p. Jaggy jaggy jaggy. The current consoles were ok when we were on smaller non digitial displays, but most people now have HDTV panels, 40+ inches, making these consoles look very dated indeed. The bigger the screen, the worse things look.

The 360 is using 2004 technology, the PS3 just a smidge later. It's time for a new generation of console(s) to start giving us real HD games, and not the upscaled shit 99% of them are really doing.

If you're happy with ancient tech and shitty looking games, good for you. But you can fuck off if you think you can tell others what they should desire.

Finally (0)

Mr_eX9 (800448) | more than 2 years ago | (#37822896)

At least now that people are talking about the next console generation, people will finally stop calling the 360, PS3, and Wii "next-gen consoles" despite being the current generation since 2005-06.

Re:Finally (1)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823188)

I think you give them too much credit. Personally, I can't wait to hear the talking heads talk about the time-tables for the next-next-gen consoles and how much better they are than the next-gen consoles.

Meanwhile on PC... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37822952)

We're miles ahead in every category.

Number of players per machine (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823108)

We're miles ahead in every category.

Except in number of players per machine. Very few PC games support split- or otherwise shared-screen co-op using one TV and two to four USB gamepads. One reason is that apart from a few geeks [pineight.com] , almost [slashdot.org] nobody [slashdot.org] is willing to hook a PC up to a TV or a TV-sized monitor. But perhaps Cracked columnist David Wong is on to the real reason, calling the requirement of a separate PC and copy of the game per player a cheap revenue-enhancing scheme for game publishers in his article [cracked.com] .

Re:Number of players per machine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823364)

Well, okay, we're ahead in every category that **counts for something**.

Re:Number of players per machine (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823520)

Very few PC games support split- or otherwise shared-screen co-op [instead needing] a separate PC and copy of the game per player

Well, okay, we're ahead in every category that **counts for something**.

In other words, cost doesn't count for something. You're entitled to your opinion, but I must respectfully disagree.

Re:Number of players per machine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823922)

*shrug* You get what you pay for. If you want to save money to have an inferior experience with inferior controls, that's up to you. I'd much rather put a bit more money up front on a gaming platform that is far more future-proof and on which games are generally cheaper.

Re:Meanwhile on PC... (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823322)

Except in having games that are actually fun.

Re:Meanwhile on PC... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823656)

You must have a bizarre definition of "fun" if you honestly think that no PC game in the history of PC games is fun.

Amazed at how long they've lasted (3)

mozumder (178398) | more than 2 years ago | (#37822974)

We started work on the 360 in the 2002 time frame i think. That'll put it at almost 10 years between generations. This was with 90nm processes.

In 2013/2014 time-frame, 15nm processes should be coming online. That'll already lets you put 27x more stuff on chip at the same die size, in addition to clock speed increases.

I'm hoping they ramp up system memory to 16GB and video memory to 2GB. Maybe 4K resolution gaming. They better get rid of any physical media, and make it download only.

This next generation is going to last for 15 years.

A cap of 5 GB per month (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823172)

They better get rid of any physical media, and make it download only.

Good luck downloading even a single-layer BD-ROM's worth of data over a 5 GB per month satellite link; it'll take you five months. As long as there are still areas unserved by fast broadband without obnoxiously low caps, consoles will still need to use physical media. Even the PSVita will use cartridges.

Re:Amazed at how long they've lasted (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823422)

They better get rid of any physical media, and make it download only.

This next generation is going to last for 15 years.

This is pretty much the main holdup on a new console. Neither Sony nor MS wants to commit to new hardware that uses physical media, since it's all but a given that any media type they could chose would be horribly outdated long before the console went EoL. But the fact is, we're just not yet at a place where ditching media is feasible. Several PS3 games have maxed out a dual layer blu ray disc, that's 50GB. Even if you had a 100Mb Internet connection, and connected to a server that could actually sustain you at 100Mbps for the entire download, it'd take an hour to download a 50GB game, which is a pretty damn long time. And considering that most of the country is still using 10Mbps or slower connections and have caps on top of that which would prevent them from even being able to download 50GB in a month, it's just not a realistic option. And that's for current gen games. You just said you want 4K gaming, and a next gen console probably has to prepare for that possibility. Well, the higher res textures necessary for a 4K game will drive those game sizes even higher. Given this, I don't think even with a 2014 launch a media less game console is realistic.

Good enough already (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823008)

More polygons means more work for artists which means higher budgets and more risk. What's the incentive for a new console when current gen consoles can do anything one could actually want to do?

The question is, what sort of game are people going to want to play that will require new hardware? If you're just throwing a new coat of paint on the same old game designs, what's the point?

Re:Good enough already (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823056)

Current consoles have about as much RAM as toaster compared to modern gaming PCs.

Re:Good enough already (0)

Zaphod The 42nd (1205578) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823146)

Agreed. The PS3 has so little RAM for its processing power that it feels crippled now. Rage actually looks better on 360 than PS3, purely because the PS3 just doesn't have enough RAM to hold the art assets to render a single scene at a time, it has to constantly stream to disk. I understand they're trying to cut costs, but when you're already shelling out $200-300, an extra $20 for an additional GB stick of RAM would go a LONG WAY to making gaming better.

The real heartbreak is because consoles have so little RAM, videogames are getting held back across the board, even on PCs. Games usually try to target console first, and then just port to PC, and they're not about to redo the entire game's graphic design for a port. They aim low (the lowest common denominator between 360 and ps3) and then get that to work on all three. Its rather unfortunate, because PCs have left consoles in the dust and have continued the advance for the last six years or whatever, and are capable of so much more.

Both 512 MB (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823216)

Rage actually looks better on 360 than PS3, purely because the PS3 just doesn't have enough RAM to hold the art assets to render a single scene at a time

Xbox 360 has 512 MB of RAM and integrated graphics. PS3 has 256 MB of RAM and 256 MB of dedicated VRAM. Why again doesn't the PS3 have enough RAM?

Games usually try to target console first, and then just port to PC

Why is this the case, as opposed to aiming higher with PC exclusives?

and they're not about to redo the entire game's graphic design for a port.

They already do for ports to Wii and ports to DS.

Re:Both 512 MB (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823312)

The PS3 reserves RAM for it's OS stuff. John Carmack has tweeted about this in the past.

...and both have an operating system (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823472)

The PS3 reserves RAM for it's OS stuff.

And the Xbox 360 doesn't? What's that dashboard I see when I press the home button during a game?

John Carmack has tweeted about this in the past.

It appears I can't search Twitter without having a Twitter account. Would you share some links?

Re:Both 512 MB (1)

Zaphod The 42nd (1205578) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823512)

Rage actually looks better on 360 than PS3, purely because the PS3 just doesn't have enough RAM to hold the art assets to render a single scene at a time

Xbox 360 has 512 MB of RAM and integrated graphics. PS3 has 256 MB of RAM and 256 MB of dedicated VRAM. Why again doesn't the PS3 have enough RAM?

John Carmack has said so, and I trust him. Something about the PS3 only giving you access to some of it.

Games usually try to target console first, and then just port to PC

Why is this the case, as opposed to aiming higher with PC exclusives?

It would be nice if game companies targeted PC, but other than genres that demand it (RTS, turn based, etc.) the PC gets largely ignored. I think the reasons are twofold: they believe that they can target the console, port to pc, and get away with it, still selling the game and making everybody happy, even if PC gamers could do better, and because of the belief that on PC there is rampant piracy whereas on console there is not. The second point is pretty wrong, and studios are slowly realizing it. Console piracy is pretty huge, but largely ignored. Its not too hard to burn a downloaded game to a disc and then use a modchip or a swap disc to get your disc to play region-free. Especially with consoles with integrated harddrives, you can flash the OS and play games right off the drive, no need to burn a disc! This is seen as more difficult than pirating PC games, so PC piracy is seen as a bigger issue.

Many have realized that the old business models are failing, and that is the real problem. Valve is trying out all kinds of things on steam, TF2 is free now, but actually makes them more money than it used to. What? They put games on sale, and they expect the sale to make 2x the normal income and instead it makes 40x the normal income. We just do not understand the market behavior of games and the best business model for games yet. We're still discovering. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/10/24/less-is-more-gabe-newell-on-game-pricing/ [rockpapershotgun.com]

and they're not about to redo the entire game's graphic design for a port.

They already do for ports to Wii and ports to DS.

A game that is also on Wii or Gameboy is NOT a port. Try playing both games; they're fundamentally different. Its a marketing ploy that they use the same name and they advertise "on 360, ps3, wii and DS" but thats a damn lie. "ports" to DS will usually completely rethink the game, new gameplay that fits for a more casual experience in shorter bursts, and better fits the controls that you have on a DS instead of a 360 controller. The wii is the same, games are different completely, use completely different engines. Why don't they do that for PC? Make a completely different game, new engine? It comes down to money. They must not think its worth the investment.

Making a wii or DS "port/version" of a game is going to be cheaper than the main, AAA version of the game meant for 360. The graphics are going to be simpler, the game is going to take less time to develop. On the PC, however, it would be the other way around. You would have MORE work to do, you'd need a more impressive engine with higher quality models than the 360 version, and for what feels like less sales and profit. So they feel the DS port is worth the cost, but a proper high quality PC port would not.

Re:Good enough already (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823318)

That's not unfortunate, that's economical. I benefit by being able to play more games on my older hardware, saving me money. The producers get to spend less on artwork, and increase the distribution of their games, making them more money. It's a win-win scenario.

Graphics are good enough now that graphics alone can't justify an upgrade. Only novel game mechanics could induce me to buy a new system. What game mechanic is going to use a gig of RAM?

Re:Good enough already (1)

KermodeBear (738243) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823210)

And that is fine, given that the consoles aren't running nearly as much stuff in the background. Plus, since the hardware is one single well known configuration, a lot of extreme optimization can take place. Consoles look good enough for modern games and they play well enough too. With networking capabilities they can update software, etc. as needed. They're fine, albeit expensive for what they provide.

Personally I game on my PC though; I don't see a need to buy a console for gaming when I have a perfectly good machine already with lots of good stuff. Plus, modding is possible on the PCs and you're not locked into a single vendor like you are on the consoles.

Re:Good enough already (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823234)

Yes, but what are they actually going to do with more RAM besides make prettier graphics? What gameplay mechanics would be possible on a new system that aren't on todays consoles?

Re:Good enough already (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823358)

What gameplay mechanics would be possible on a new system that aren't on todays consoles?

My answer to that depends on your answer to this: What gameplay mechanics are possible on Xbox 360 (without the Kinect sensor) that weren't possible on the original PlayStation?

Re:Good enough already (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823786)

That's pretty much why I don't own any current gen hardware yet. There's not that much. Going from PSX to PS2 was a significant leap, you couldn't have done GTA3 on the PSX. I don't know what game you could say that about on a current gen console.

Re:Good enough already (1)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823082)

a good example of new possibilities would be forza motorsport. Fm4 has no open wheeled cars, partly because there is no animation/simulation code for open wheel suspension. This could be down to the fact that they simply didnt have the code for it, it could also been just beyond the capacity of the 360 to properly simulate/render the suspension components. Newer hardware would solve that.

Another issue that the next gen xbox would tackle is the disk format. downloadable games might be the future, but for the next five years physical discs arent going anywhere (not to mention game retailers haiting DL games), the 360 is really stretching what can be done with DVD discs, and in some cases needs multiple discs per game. Conversely the PS3 might have large discs for storing lots of content, the blu-ray drive is dog-slow, making for long load/install times.

Re:Good enough already (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823492)

The question is, what sort of game are people going to want to play that will require new hardware?

a good example of new possibilities would be forza motorsport. Fm4 has no open wheeled cars, partly because there is no animation/simulation code for open wheel suspension. This could be down to the fact that they simply didnt have the code for it, it could also been just beyond the capacity of the 360 to properly simulate/render the suspension components. Newer hardware would solve that.

Yes, interesting, but looking at pretty pictures is not "playing". Much like watching TV pro sports is not "exercising".

I'm thinking the main achievement of the next game gen is an explosion of standard hardware... 100% of controllers will have a really nice microphone and/or bluetooth mic so game designers can count on it for ALL users. 100% of next gen systems will have something like the kinect so game designers can count on it.

Bracelet accelerometer controller interface? Headband unit with accelerometer / cam / HUD?

In a nod to the popularity of smartphones and tablets, an iOS and Android app to make a second screen or controller or something?

Much like an amazon kindle, could future gen consoles have lifetime internet access for software updates / downloads / patches / social networking automation?

Also the death of hardware can be important... bye bye NTSC, probably HDMI only, that means game designers can assume text can be read on screen and fine details can be seen. Also the death of NTSC means color fidelity should be improved, hopefully the game designers have good taste. The death of "L R RCA audio" jacks in favor of fiber digital audio and/or HDMI audio means 5.1 surround can be assumed for 100% of users. bye bye rotating optical media and infrared controls and wired controls in favor of bluetooth means the "box" doesn't actually need human access or stylish appearance, it can look like shelf component or a featureless black box for all that matters. Back panel has AC and HDMI out and ... maybe thats it.

That and extremely heavy product tying. Whatever ships, it'll ship with streaming netflix. And probably a facebook app.

Re:Good enough already (1)

AdamJS (2466928) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823150)

Multiple characters were cut from a fighting game due to ram constraints alone. Carmack has said that the low ram is pretty much a massive bottleneck on current systems, greatly limiting what can be done.

Re:Good enough already (1)

HRbnjR (12398) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823192)

Battlefield 3 is coming out for PC and the consoles tomorrow. The console version is restricted to 24 player multiplayer, whereas PC users get 64 players, nor is my Xbox capable of the resolution, texture detail, or view distances of the PC version :(

Re:Good enough already (1)

Thantik (1207112) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823704)

More polygons does not mean more work for artists at all. 3D models are created in full resolution and poly count reduced to fit the poly budget of the machine they are targeting. In fact, it might actually mean less work for artists due to less optimization needed. Even 2D sprite games with large item counts (Diablo II, etc) are now created in 3D and rendered as 2D sprites to save on time.

Re:Good enough already (1)

MrDoh! (71235) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823862)

There isn't much point. I think the next BIG (well, currently happening) change is the availability/easy mode gaming.
iphone/android/appleTV/GoogleTV. A quick AngryBirds/Whatever 2 minute game session whilst the adverts are on, then back to the program.
dollar or 2 for a game, short duration. Done.
The costs for new platforms in both hardware and development are making games crazy prices when our phones aren't far off the same gfx ability as gaming rigs of only a few short years ago.

Computers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823010)

Computer hardware is ever changing. Game on your computer, not some shitty console.

Re:Computers? (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823084)

Computer hardware is ever changing. Game on your computer, not some shitty console.

Your first point is an argument against your second point.

Re:Computers? (1)

CheshireDragon (1183095) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823386)

Not really, it is more complimentary. When was the last time you were able to upgrade a few parts in your console to add a nice boost to its capabilities? I added a new video card, proc and some RAM to my gaming comp and now it is capable of playing Fable III.

Re:Computers? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823774)

When was the last time you were able to upgrade a few parts in your console to add a nice boost to its capabilities?

Nintendo 64 Expansion Pak. Some games required it (Perfect Dark; Majora's Mask); other games used it for more detailed lighting and even 480i graphics (as opposed to the typical 240p). Also Kinect for Xbox 360.

Re:Computers? (1)

Frenzied Apathy (2473340) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823390)

Computer hardware is ever changing. Game on your computer, not some shitty console. Your first point is an argument against your second point.

I don't think so. I'm guessing his point was that console hardware is static over the course of many years, whereas updating/upgrading computer hardware is merely a matter of swapping out a single piece. Since it is so much easier to keep computer hardware up to date, then computer gaming is the way to go.

Personally, I don't own a console and am an avid computer gamer - I'd have to agree (with what I suppose is his point).

Re:Computers? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823842)

updating/upgrading computer hardware is merely a matter of swapping out a single piece.

Unless that piece is your PC's motherboard, at which point you'll also need to swap out the CPU and RAM. You may also need to swap out more of your expansion cards if your new motherboard doesn't have slots for your old cards (e.g. PCI to PCIe, AGP to PCIe, ATA to SATA). About once a console generation, you might as well buy or build a new PC because motherboards will have changed so much.

Ten Year Gen Cycle (1)

jacksinn (1136829) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823020)

I know they claimed at launch (PS3, XBOX) that this would be a ten year generation cycle but damn it feels a lot longer than it sounds. I'm happy to not shell out several hundred dollars per console every five or so years but I also don't want to buy the same gen console as my next console when this one dies.

somewhat makes sense... (1)

CheshireDragon (1183095) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823024)

I am not a huge gamer and don't own the new ones(360 or PS3) so I might be off by a bit...or a lot.

I'll use Nintendo since I did grow up with them. The 16bit SNES saw a big jump from the original 8bit NES. The SNES advancements were multiple layers(background moving slower than the foreground). The N64 showed true advancements in 3D rather than just sprites, but what is the difference from the N64, to GameCube, to Wii? The only thing I noticed is that the polygon count became slightly increased and since hardware was becoming better to make the games run smoother.

The only thing I could see them doing is waiting for big advancements in hardware so they can then increase the polygons once again to have more detail at smother movement(more FPS).

Anyone else agree or am I completely off?

Re:somewhat makes sense... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823370)

what is the difference from the N64, to GameCube, to Wii? The only thing I noticed is that the polygon count became slightly increased and since hardware was becoming better to make the games run smoother.

The only thing I could see them doing is waiting for big advancements in hardware so they can then increase the polygons once again to have more detail at smother movement(more FPS).

Anyone else agree or am I completely off?

The Wii's motion sensing controls are probably worth mentioning. Not everything is graphics.

Re:somewhat makes sense... (1)

CheshireDragon (1183095) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823844)

I guess that is my mistake for gaming on a PC because there has only been keyboard and mouse(the occasional joystick or other wacky controller that failed). Graphics(and game play) are generally what run a PC game so that is why I went on graphics. If the controller is worth mentioning does that mean the Kinect pushed the 360 into the next generation?

Re:somewhat makes sense... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823600)

Good luck shoehorning GTA 4 into the N64.

Re:somewhat makes sense... (1)

CheshireDragon (1183095) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823908)

I almost responded then realized how dumb that reply is. Good show for saving face by posting as AC.

Microsoft has the most to lose by waiting (3, Interesting)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823030)

They're already past the 5-year traditional console lifespan (a tradition that's been sacrosanct since the Atari days). And with Playstation gaining ground every day, they're looking real long-in-the-tooth of late. PS3 has MMO's now, user-created content, games that don't have to span several discs (because of the blu-ray drive), blu-ray movie playing capability, etc. The 360 was in the lead for a long time (in the U.S. at least) and MS could have easily secured that lead if they had followed the 5-year lifecyle and bitch-slapped Sony with a next-gen console in Christmas 2010. Instead we got the Kinect, their Wii knockoff that came years after the Wii novelty had worn off (my Wii is sitting in my closet if anyone wants to buy it).

It's a real shame too. Call me a nationalist if you like, but MS was the first American company to compete in the console industry since Atari. And it was nice to not have to wait until a title had been released in Japan for several months to finally get it in the U.S. Sony and Nintendo always treated the west like they were doing us a favor by lowering themselves to even release a game outside of Japan. MS was the first company in a long time to treat the U.S. and Europe as a first-class market instead of an afterthought. And they actually gave us Western-centric games instead of just poorly-translated JRPG's to boot.

Re:Microsoft has the most to lose by waiting (1)

DeathFromSomewhere (940915) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823128)

You might want to check your facts. [winrumors.com]

Re:Microsoft has the most to lose by waiting (3)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823262)

I thought we were passed this. All three consoles sold more than 50 million units. No one lost, everyone won; with Nintendo winning a lot more granted especially given they've been making a profit on their sales since day one. I do have to wonder how many units they each sold to unique customers though, I know I had to replace my 60gb launch PS3, and the RROD debacle surely skewed the 360s numbers a bit.

Disagree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823510)

I think Microsoft is deliberately avoiding rushing "something" out there for the next gen console because they are coordinating across ecosystems. For example, on a visible level, I think the next generation Xbox will have a lot of overlap with Xbox Live on Windows Phone and Windows ARM tablet platforms. And behind the scenes, they want to align their development technologies and frameworks to share as much as possible across phone, tablet, desktop, and gaming console.

Since they are only just wrapping up Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8, it makes a lot of sense to coordinate "Xbox Next" with that work. If they execute well, this delay could help them in the long run.

Re:Microsoft has the most to lose by waiting (2)

supersloshy (1273442) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823652)

The 360 was in the lead for a long time (in the U.S. at least)

You mean excluding the Wii?

Re:Microsoft has the most to lose by waiting (1)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823748)

Wait, at what point did the PS3 start "gaining ground every day"? Last I checked (2 months ago), the Xbox 360 had been thoroughly outselling the PS3 almost constantly since the Kinect came out (a year ago, now).

Years off? (3, Insightful)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823036)

The Wii-U is due out next year.

I know there'll be people saying it's not a next-gen console because it's graphics aren't much if any better than a PS3, but I would say it is, because it is one that has been designed after seeing the results of the current gen. Like the Wii, Nintendo decided the key to advancement was not pushing graphics, but other aspects of the user experience.

Re:Years off? (2)

AdamJS (2466928) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823194)

Not much better? A 4890 with 512MB to 1GB VRAM is a massive improvement over a 256MB 7600GT, especially in the realm of heavily optimized console systems.

Re:Years off? (1)

Viewsonic (584922) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823894)

Exactly. A lot of people really have no idea how powerful the WiiU really is. The specs are quite a big step over the current generation. The real question will be if Nintendo will catch up with the PS3/360 for online gaming. If they can bring it to the level of the PS3 and keep it free and open for developers to integrate (Ie. STEAM), it'll be a huge hit. By the time MS and Sony come out with theirs, they will be 40 million consoles behind Nintendo, and may never catch up again.

Why make a new system... (1)

Saishuuheiki (1657565) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823040)

...when you can add a stick / camera for more money?

Personally, if I want to play tennis or go bowling, I go out and play tennis or go bowling

Re:Why make a new system... (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823388)

But if you want to box (like in Wii Sports or Punch-Out!!), can you find a sparring partner without the cops showing up?

"next-gen" is this gen (1)

Zaphod The 42nd (1205578) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823066)

The next generation of consoles are the PS3 with Move and the XBOX360 with Kinect. Both the 360 and the PS3 still aren't being completely utilized to their full processing potential, the move/kinect just opened up a whole bunch of new gameplay options, and NOBODY wants to drop $400 on a brand new console when their current one isn't being utilized enough. The market isn't ready at all for a new generation of consoles, and Microsoft & Sony realize this. They've been planning for it.

Re:"next-gen" is this gen (2)

AdamJS (2466928) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823274)

What? They are most certainly being used to a very high caliber. There's only so much optimization and CPU-centric tasks you can do, and the ones that would benefit most (AI and similar) aren't being targeted at all as a primary concern for future (and Kinect/Move) games. One of the largest limits on these systems is their low RAM size. And compression can only take you so far; eventually, there's a point where you simply don't have enough.

GOOD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823076)

While this does have an effect on the progress in using higher tech on PC, adoption rates for 360/PS3 are just now starting to truly ramp up. It will be interesting to see how much awesome new tech makes it to the next gen given this prospect.

What about this "Nintendo" thing? (0)

Etherized (1038092) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823080)

I hear they make videogames, and they have this crazy new console with a 2012. Called a "Wii U" or something. You know, I think they even had another console on the market before this.

I know, I know, the Wii U has less space than a Nomad, so you'd be forgiven for writing it off as "lame," but maybe these spunky upstarts at Nintendo will be worth paying attention to some day. I'm sure they'll never compete with Microsoft or Sony, but hey, you never know.

Re:What about this "Nintendo" thing? (1)

AdamJS (2466928) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823218)

The Wii-U has a high chance of being another Dreamcast, essentially being "in-between" generations and altogether dropped from the public eye not before long. Which is sad, because it does a couple of things really well (both primary sticks in the raised/upper/primary position, with proper controller weighting, for instance).

Re:What about this "Nintendo" thing? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823420)

The Wii-U has a high chance of being another Dreamcast

Especially with that overgrown Visual Memory Unit-looking thing between the buttons and the left stick. But I bet it'll be the opposite of the Dreamcast in terms of friendliness to home developers.

Re:What about this "Nintendo" thing? (1)

Viewsonic (584922) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823912)

It really isn't "between" generations. We are already due for refreshes from ALL the companies. People are clamoring for new systems right now. Nintendo will be the first to capitalize on it.

Re:What about this "Nintendo" thing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823674)

I hear they make videogames, and they have this crazy new console with a 2012. Called a "Wii U" or something. You know, I think they even had another console on the market before this.

I know, I know, the Wii U has less space than a Nomad, so you'd be forgiven for writing it off as "lame," but maybe these spunky upstarts at Nintendo will be worth paying attention to some day. I'm sure they'll never compete with Microsoft or Sony, but hey, you never know.

Pfft. Nintendo. Big deal. I mean, what have they done in the video game market this generation, anyway? Have a runaway financial and critical success with their console despite it being technologically inferior to its competition? Come up with a consumer-level form of motion control in a modern console that had its competition scrambling to imitate it just to keep up? Use their 25+ years of console experience to come up with good first-party games? Even minor things like the Mii avatars that their competition eventually had to imitate*?

Please. Like any of that matters. Innovation, marketing, experience, complete domination of the market for much of this generation, blah, blah blah, I want my ultra-realistic FPSes and fighting games so I can sit my ass on a couch and pretend I'm a badass in my own little fantasy world**! Not like those kiddy games in their own little fantasy worlds Nintendo makes!

*: Admittedly, they DID improve the concept quite a bit, namely in extensibility and flexibility.

**: And you DAMN well better not make it any different than the last eighty or so FPSes and fighting games I've played, or THERE WILL BE HELL TO PAY***.

***: As soon as I get off the couch.

Current-Gen PCs Available Now! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823134)

That's why I do almost all of my gaming on a PC.

--Member of the Master PC Gaming Race, and proud of it!

Re:Current-Gen PCs Available Now! (-1, Troll)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823544)

Wow, with that attitude, your dick must be *so* big.

BUY A PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823224)

YOU CONSOLE SCUM :)

Re:BUY A PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823738)

We will crush the console rebels.
Nothing will stand in the way of the master pc. ;)

Doesn't bother me. (1)

Mordermi (2432580) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823374)

I'm so backlogged on all of the awesome games out and due to come out for the Playstation 3 that I would be fine into 2020 without a new system.

Will it slow PC gaming even more? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823418)

PC gaming already seem to be slowed by weak consoles. Most games are (bad) ports from console games, and thus restrain the quality that might have been achieved had the game been developed for PC.

However, if the current generation of consoles is kept for another few years, there will be a moment where the difference between PC and consoles will be too great.
I hope it'll be the occasion for PC gaming to drop the console port heavyweight.

The next generation is in your hand (1)

Relayman (1068986) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823430)

The next generation of game consoles is in your hand. It's running either iOS 5, Ice Cream Sandwich or Mango, depending on why your interest lies (sorry, Android is the closest you're going to get to Linux).

The phones are selling such high volumes and adding capabilities so fast that any new hardware console, ostensibly designed for games only, will have a problem getting to critical mass. Not only are we in a post-PC world, we're in a post-game-console world as well.

Smart phones screens are to small and touch screen (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823570)

Smart phones screens are to small and touch screens only work for some kinds of games and for others they suck big time.

Re:Smart phones screens are to small and touch scr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823724)

AirPlay / screen mirroring.

Re:The next generation is in your hand (1)

barjam (37372) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823584)

I hope not. The gaming experience on a IOS (Or I presume android) device is pretty abysmal for most game types (does really well for others though).

Re:The next generation is in your hand (1)

BenLeeImp (1347831) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823612)

I would strongly consider the possibility that, while overlap does exist, the console market is fairly distinct from the phone-gaming market.

Re:The next generation is in your hand (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823626)

Not only are we in a post-PC world, we're in a post-game-console world as well.

And a post $75 game world. Like it or not, your next hundred game purchases are probably going to be much cheaper than your previous hundred game purchases...

One big cultural issue is that "REAL gamers exclusively play remakes of sequels of FPS that cost $60 each" but I don't think that's gonna fly on the iOS / Android world, or at least it hasn't started to fly. A touch interface is nice for scrolling and scroll-like game interfaces. Not so good for FPS triggers.

Re:The next generation is in your hand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823898)

So ... gaming is dead.

Fix the industry, then the hardware... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823458)

Hardware doesn't matter when all the games are SHIT.
Fix the industry first, then think about the hardware or else we will have 500 $ consoles that are used to play 10$ indie games.

Scaling the PS3 (1)

Brad1138 (590148) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823464)

With the cell processor design of the PS3, increasing performance should be easy and it should be able to retain backward compatibility w/o much if any trouble. With as inexpensive as ram is now , hopefully there will be no reason to skimp there.

Re:Scaling the PS3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823916)

That's not going to happen, for a few reasons.

First, development of Cell has been discontinued by IBM.
Second, the architecture proved difficult to use well; there are very few PS3 games that actually use the Cell.

The PS4 is more likely to be a PowerPC based machine with GPGPUs; they're cheaper, have much higher performance than Cell (the reason IBM discontinued them), and can be used to augment the main graphics board if they're not required for other tasks.

I am not a big fan of it but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823540)

Let's face it - games have hardly scratched the surface of the PS3... The Wii games have focused on motion control and forgotten that there are other cool things going on there (Such as a speaker in the controller itself that only a few games have remembered) and the XBox has some really cool Kinect capabilities that are going mostly untouched. Perhaps it's more important to ask why the games are boring when the capabilities aren't being utilized yet?

You could wait for the next 'generation'... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823660)

Or you could, you know, buy a gaming PC.

Re:You could wait for the next 'generation'... (0)

cornface (900179) | more than 2 years ago | (#37823812)

Yeah, with a gaming PC your next upgrade is never more than six months away.

Which is why consoles are so popular.

What's the incentive to create new game consoles? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823800)

Even today the manufacturers of the consoles make losses on the hardware. There is simply
no incentive to have a fast hardware cycle time. The longer you can make games (where the profit
is raked in) on the same platform (console) the better.

what? YEARS???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37823856)

how am i supposed to play better games? :O

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...