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TSA's VIPR Bites Rail, Bus, and Ferry Passengers

Soulskill posted about 3 years ago | from the give-the-people-what-they-do-not-want dept.

Privacy 658

OverTheGeicoE writes "TSA's VIPR program may be expanding. According to the Washington Times, 'TSA has always intended to expand beyond the confines of airport terminals. Its agents have been conducting more and more surprise groping sessions for women, children and the elderly in locations that have nothing to do with aviation.' In Tennessee earlier this month, bus passengers in Nashville and Knoxville were searched in addition to the truck searches discussed here previously. Earlier this year in Savannah, Georgia, TSA forced a group of train travelers, including young children, to be patted down. (They were getting off the train, not on.) Ferry passengers have also been targeted. According to TSA Administrator John Pistole's testimony before the Senate last June, 'TSA conducted more than 8,000 VIPR operations in the [previous] 12 months, including more than 3,700 operations in mass-transit and passenger-railroad venues.' He wants a 50% budget increase for VIPR for 2012. Imagine what TSA would do with the extra funding."

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Well, so much for... (5, Insightful)

Rinikusu (28164) | about 3 years ago | (#37872502)

"Take the train you unpatriotic, small-dicked paranoid liberal!"

Yeah, we all saw this coming. Papers, please.

Re:Well, so much for... (5, Insightful)

lgw (121541) | about 3 years ago | (#37872600)

I hate to sound like I'm channeling Ronulus Prime, but I really think we'd all be better off if congress just defunded the TSA and closed the agency. At least it would be cheaper.

Re:Well, so much for... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872778)

The objectives of government are to perpetuate itself and to enforce the will of the elite. Defunding government is equivalent to denying a cancer tumor's blood supply.

Re:Well, so much for... (2)

MyFirstNameIsPaul (1552283) | about 3 years ago | (#37873042)

"No animal shall kill any other animal without cause."

Re:Well, so much for... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872616)

Please. Since Obama took office, we've been racist, small-dicked paranoid conservatives. Do try to keep up.

Re:Well, so much for... (-1, Troll)

Eponymous Hero (2090636) | about 3 years ago | (#37872720)

please. you were racist, small-dicked paranoid conservatives long before obama. it took obama for the epiphany to strike.

Re:Well, so much for... (1)

ichthus (72442) | about 3 years ago | (#37872752)

Who you calling paranoid?

Re:Well, so much for... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872704)

This is not about security. Leftists want to test the public's submissiveness to government intrusion, to see how their movement is Progressing.

Re:Well, so much for... (1)

lm2s (2432822) | about 3 years ago | (#37872768)

Leftists? Seriously?!

Re:Well, so much for... (1)

ichthus (72442) | about 3 years ago | (#37872898)

Leftists. Seriously.

Re:Well, so much for... (2)

DrgnDancer (137700) | about 3 years ago | (#37872784)

The TSA was an invention of the Right. Not to say the Left isn't perfectly thrilled with it. This isn't a Left vs Right issue, it's a bipartisan clusterfuck.

Re:Well, so much for... (1)

ichthus (72442) | about 3 years ago | (#37872918)

And the naked body scanners and gropings were an implementation of the Left. Not to say the Left isn't perfectly thrilled with it. This isn't a Left vs Right issue, it's a bipartisan clusterfuck.

Re:Well, so much for... (5, Insightful)

HangingChad (677530) | about 3 years ago | (#37873058)

Leftists want to test the public's submissiveness to government intrusion

ROFL! Which leftist was that who first proposed TSA? It was that famous lefty George Bush.

Using terms like that make you sound like some mid-60's Fox News watcher who tunes into Glenn Beck's radio show on the way to Branson, MO.

Re:Well, so much for... (2)

roc97007 (608802) | about 3 years ago | (#37872912)

> "Take the train you unpatriotic, small-dicked paranoid liberal!"

Opposition to TSA isn't just a liberal thing.

TSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872504)

Sounds like Tit Suckers Anonymous is at it again.

Godwin time! (1)

DarkOx (621550) | about 3 years ago | (#37872506)

Still think either of the two main parties in this nation are different from the Nazi's in way other than the groups they target?

Re:Godwin time! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872598)

Still think either of the two main parties in this nation are different from the Nazi's in way other than the groups they target?

Why is it that when Liberals become disillusioned about what their beliefs add up to when taken out of theory and applied to the actual world that theory was supposedly based around - they must see both sides as Nazis. I know damn well Socialism is on the Liberal side of the spectrum and I find you fuckers offensive - smoke some more weed and bitch how if only the world was more like you perceive things *should* be in your head it would be _so_ much better or fucking convert already - the country was founded by Libertarians and if you want the glorious country that birthed you to stop fucking degrading it's time to go back to the core values that made us great - THE ONES THAT WORK.

Re:Godwin time! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872652)

Yes I do. Their suits aren't as snazzy.

Re:Godwin time! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872848)

If we have to submit to random patdowns and searches everytime we leave our house, why can't we at least have mass rallies with impressive synchronized gymnastics and military parades with bad-ass goosestepping soldiers too?

If we have to have a totalitarian state, why don't we at least get the cool parts too?

Re:Godwin time! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872696)

Still think either of the two main parties in this nation are different from the Nazi's in way other than the groups they target?

No, they are only different in a matter of degree, however one of the parties targets the same groups [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Godwin time! (5, Insightful)

gewalker (57809) | about 3 years ago | (#37872886)

Let's see, the TSA authorization bill was sponsored by an R in the house a D in the senate signed into law by an R, became Federal employees due to a D advanced to choice of digital strip search or being felt-up session under a D administration.

The pattern is clear, both major parties care little about personal liberty. Like you, I am surprised to see anyone thinks that either major party cares about the constitution anymore. The R's give more lip service to some parts of the constitution, may actually care about other parts of the constitution. The D's, not so much those parts, but they have other parts they like more than the R's.

If I want to repeal the 16th amendment (the income tax), that does not mean I don't respect the constitution, I just means I want to alter it as provided by the constitution. If I decide that a don't like the 16th and refuse to pay income taxes, then it is truth that I don't really care about the constitution either, just the parts I like. It would be nice if people understand the difference.

Re:Godwin time! (1)

mosb1000 (710161) | about 3 years ago | (#37873018)

both major parties care little about personal liberty

I'd say that are very concerned about it. Just not in a good way.

If I want to repeal the 16th amendment (the income tax)

The income tax was legal before the 16th amendment. But the 16th amendment removes considerations related to direct taxes, which had stymied the federal government when it came to collecting taxes on income derived from rent.

This is out of control (5, Interesting)

fredrated (639554) | about 3 years ago | (#37872512)

We have become consumed by the fear of a mosquito bite, are we going to continue to give up our freedom for what amounts to a non-issue?

Re:This is out of control (3, Insightful)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | about 3 years ago | (#37872688)

Yes. Those otherwise-unemployable troops overseas have to do something for a living when they come home, right? You don't want angry goons with PTSD, who had to watch their buddies be turned into hamburger for oil and big business, having too much idle time on their hands being unable to care for their families. Better to continue to pay 'em to take their primitive aggression out on those pinko peaceniks and marijuana joints.

The irony is that the DHS labelled that same demographic a potential terrorist threat, causing an uproar.

Re:This is out of control (1)

jd (1658) | about 3 years ago | (#37872748)

Well, the alternative is to make them patent lawyers.

Yes. (2)

mosb1000 (710161) | about 3 years ago | (#37873040)

It's for the children. And by that I mean it's for the purpose of groping and taking naked pictures of the children.

What would they do???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872516)

probably grope more women and children.

our homes? (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | about 3 years ago | (#37872532)

Maybe they will search us when we leave our home? Is there any option to refuse to be patted down? Or they will get in my home while we sleep and.....search us....

This makes my skin crawl (2)

1_brown_mouse (160511) | about 3 years ago | (#37872536)

This is contrary to everything I believe in.

And? (4, Insightful)

revscat (35618) | about 3 years ago | (#37872540)

Look, honestly, what are you going to do about it? Complaining doesn't matter. The TSA will be here forever, and, as much as we hate to admit it, there is nothing that can be done about it. There is too much money involved, and contractors have vast amounts of power, much more so than any collection of outraged stories and messages on the internet does.

Seriously, I hope the TSA is abolished tomorrow, or hell even five years from now. But honestly without fundamental, almost revolutionary changes to the way the US government works this simply will not happen. Money talks, national security lobbyists have TONS of money, and that's pretty much the end of it.

Re:And? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872590)

easy answer: refuse the search. need as many people as possible bringing this to court as possible.

Re:And? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872670)

You (in the collective sense of "people who share your opinions") have tons of money as well. The difference is how you have chosen to use your money.

The national security lobbyists have chosen to use their money, time, and influence to help establish their favorite system of government.

On the other hand, you have chosen to spend your time and influence telling people on your side who ARE trying to fix the problem that they are wasting their efforts. God only knows what you're spending your money on, but I bet it isn't on fighting the national security lobbyists you claim to disagree with.

Re:And? (5, Insightful)

jd (1658) | about 3 years ago | (#37872820)

The problem is that Americans are taught from day 1 to fear collective action. "The individual is everything, all-powerful. You are the captain of your destiny. The collective is for pinko subversive socialist countries like Britain, who we pretend to be allies with but secretly regard as no better than Stalinist Russia."

The IT industry is a classic example. Know of any major IT unions? No? Why? Because "collective rights" are somehow mysteriously "bad". Individual rights are ok, but the notion that two individuals might have the same rights and therefore speak collectively isn't exactly kosher. (That individuals can't protect said rights against corporations, patent trolls, government departments or anything much more substantial than a hamster, well, that's apparently immaterial.)

Re:And? (1, Insightful)

ErikZ (55491) | about 3 years ago | (#37872716)

I joined the Tea Party.

However, your plan of giving up might work.

Re:And? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872804)

Joining the Tea Party by itself isn't sufficient. Bachmann wants to expand the war on Terrorism, Cain would let his advisors decide, and Perry, can he even be a Tea Party candidate when they had one run against him in the Texas race?

There's only one among the "Tea Party" candidate that would abolish the TSA..

Re:And? (5, Insightful)

artor3 (1344997) | about 3 years ago | (#37872824)

You are the problem. Last time it came up for a vote, the Democrats were split roughly 50-50 on keeping the Patriot Act. The Republicans were in favor of it by an 80-20 margin. You have been tricked into supporting the very people who are hurting you.

How can you ever expect politicians' behavior to change when you reward them for harming you?

Re:And? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872950)

Spoken like a Democrat, who votes for Democrats, who also voted in the Patriot Act.

Re:And? (1)

Dyinobal (1427207) | about 3 years ago | (#37872836)

Don't you mean the republican party? Last I checked the tea party had been co opted by them.

Re:And? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872838)

Palin!

Palin!

Palin!

Re:And? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872904)

Nice. You joined the "party" that's bankrolled by the same interests you claim to be against.
Oh, you wanted the party that supports personal freedom, small government, and reduced spending? Sorry! Republicans only talk about those things. Their actual actions suggest something else.

There are no more real conservatives in the Republican party. They were all all axed for being "too liberal". (This is not a joke, sadly)

Enjoy being a clueless tool being made to dance by the bad guys.

Re:And? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872754)

Yes, I agree complaining does nothing. Yet your defeatist attitude somehow manages to do even less.

Re:And? (2)

Starboyforever (2368444) | about 3 years ago | (#37872862)

Look, honestly, what are you going to do about it? Complaining doesn't matter. The TSA will be here forever, and, as much as we hate to admit it, there is nothing that can be done about it. There is too much money involved, and contractors have vast amounts of power, much more so than any collection of outraged stories and messages on the internet does.

Seriously, I hope the TSA is abolished tomorrow, or hell even five years from now. But honestly without fundamental, almost revolutionary changes to the way the US government works this simply will not happen. Money talks, national security lobbyists have TONS of money, and that's pretty much the end of it.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help reading this in Bill Pullman's voice from Aliens. Fact: Politicians want more than anything else to keep their jobs. If they honestly feel like they need to throw the TSA under a bus to do that they won't bat an eye. As long as their job comes down to voter approval, "we the people" still hold all the cards. It's just a matter of us getting our shit together and letting them know what they HAVE to do.

Re:And? (1)

Dutch Gun (899105) | about 3 years ago | (#37872928)

Until the general population believes and understands that this doesn't do a damned thing, nothing will change. Wishing for some nonsensical and nonexistent "revolution" won't really help matters.

However, I find it hard to blame people for this, when the federal government is touted as the answer to all our other problems. Bad economy? Spend a shitload of tax money to "stimulate" the economy (ignore the shell game aspect of taxing the same economy you're trying to stimulate). Problems with health care? Why, the government can fix this (ignore the death panels / health care rationing please)! Drugs a problem? No problem, the "war on drugs" is surely going to fix everything! Some people are making more money than you? Why, that's not fair! We'll tax the rich buggers and spread the wealth around.

Why do you expect people to think that the government shouldn't "fix" the problem of internal security just like it "fixes" every other problem?

Don't like it? Get involved. (3, Insightful)

khasim (1285) | about 3 years ago | (#37872930)

Write PAPER letters to your state and national Representatives and Senators (and mayors and governors). Tell them that you want them to OPPOSE this.

Get your friends to write the same kind of PAPER letters to the same people.

If the politicians do not fight this on your behalf, then replace them in the next election cycle.

Get educated. Get motivated. Get involved.
A cynic who stays at home will never change anything.

Re:Don't like it? Get involved. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37873066)

Get your friends to write the same kind of PAPER letters to the same people.

And have them all summarily shredded without having been read because ZOMG terrist anthrax scary!

Illegal Search (5, Interesting)

Matt.Battey (1741550) | about 3 years ago | (#37872544)

Every TSA pat-down, especially those outside an air terminal, are illegal searches. There is no probable cause for agents of the government to initiate a search, even in air terminals, hence is a violation of 4th Amendment Rights. Every time Pistole is questioned about this by Congress, he insists that Air Travelers (and all travelers, by VIPR assumptions) are guilty until proven innocent, and that American children are all bomb carrying agents of Terrorism, because terrorists have used children and women in other parts of the world.

Re:Illegal Search (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872626)

Most certainly, Even A Terry Pat requires reasonable suspicion.

Re:Illegal Search (4, Interesting)

stewbee (1019450) | about 3 years ago | (#37872762)

Two weeks ago was the first time that I flew in several 2 years. I fortunately was spared being patted down or going through the whole body scanner. However, this time they did something that I had never seen before, and that was that they randomly checked people's boarding pass as they were getting on the plane. All I could think to myself was 'WTF?'. Was not the circus that I just went through enough for me to get on the plane? I was pissed off.

The TSA just needs to go away. I am a firm believer that it has outlived its usefulness and now is just a money sink for federal taxes. Not to mention the fact that their entire existence is just Washington wiping their ass's with the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

An attack like 9/11 will not occur again, plain and simple. The people on the airplane will do what they can to keep some random jack asses from doing anything stupid that would keep them from landing safely since the passengers now know that death is a possibility for them if they allow the hijacker/terrorist to have control of the airplane or execute their plans.

Re:Illegal Search (2)

lm2s (2432822) | about 3 years ago | (#37872876)

I have seen this 4th Amendment Rights mentioned, and mentioned, and mentioned, and ..., well you get the point. My question is the following, if this is illegal why is it still happening, since it is not a new event, why? I know rules can be bend, and even dodge, etc, so what kind of strategy is being used to keep on doing something illegal to the people of the USA without receiving any consequences? I'd really like someone to answer this in a serious and objective manner.

Re:Illegal Search (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37873006)

National security.

hrm.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872546)

Next will be random vehicle searches because hey, a car bomb during rush hour would do some damage.

I thought the terrorists lost? wth is this?

Appropriate Quote (2)

decipher_saint (72686) | about 3 years ago | (#37872568)

"Now they got the whole country sectioned off, you can't make a move without a form."
~Harry Tuttle, Brazil

No more public transportation? (2)

Sedated2000 (1716470) | about 3 years ago | (#37872584)

Is their goal to prevent anyone from wanting to use any sort of public transportation anymore? It seems like now the only way to avoid these ridiculous searches is to drive your own vehicle somewhere. Too many agencies are allowed to decide their own scopes of authority and (seemingly?) dictate their own budgets.

Re:No more public transportation? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872686)

You won't even be able to do that if this continues, roadways are public.

Re:No more public transportation? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872760)

What you don't think random vehicle searches won't be next?

Big Brother is here (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872604)

As the human race goes we always create whatever it is we imagine. We imagined Big Brother and "HE" is here!

I'm at a loss for words. (5, Funny)

Gorkamecha (948294) | about 3 years ago | (#37872610)

How is this possibly of any use to anyone. Hey, TSA! I have this rock that keeps me safe from terrorist. To date, it's be 100% effective at protecting me and everyone else I interact with from terrorism. It's also had zero false positives! I'll be happy to sell you my rock at the bargain price of 250 Million dollars. For another 50 million, my rock will also protect you from vampires, space aliens and Bears (The football team, not the animal.)

Re:I'm at a loss for words. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872896)

simpsons did it!

Re:I'm at a loss for words. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872908)

Your anti-terrorism rock is obviously a weapon of terrorism. How else would it keep the terrorists away? Your possession of it is an obvious indication that you are a terrorist. Which, incidentally, means it is totally ineffective at preventing terrorism and thus is worth zero dollars. But don't worry! Our security theatre agents are being dispatched for an overzealous media opportunity involving your face and some of our boots. And we'll be confiscating your rock of mass terror .. for safety.

Re:I'm at a loss for words. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872952)

Bullshit. There's no way that a rock is going to protect you from a football player!

Re:I'm at a loss for words. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872986)

As a representative of the Minnesota Vikings, I would like to give you a counter offer for your anti-Bears rock.

Tyranny... (2)

raydobbs (99133) | about 3 years ago | (#37872630)

As long as we, the people, are not heard in regards to our wishes - this kind of thing will continue. I, for one, have stopped flying because of the security theater; and I will not be forced to drive or walk to avoid being sexually assaulted in my own country - and PAY for the privileged of being mistreated.

Police State? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872640)

At what point does America become the unofficial police state of the world? Wonder how many more liberties and freedoms the people will give away... such as the freedom to take mass transit and not get hassled, figure with the tech society we live in we could invest in non invasive measures to handle security concerns if one where paranoid enough that could provide a reasonable measure of security.

Re:Police State? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872782)

Unofficially? We're there.

Patting down people on Trains?? WTF (1)

OzPeter (195038) | about 3 years ago | (#37872646)

Do the TSA people not realize that trains run on well defined paths, on well defined schedules (Well, maybe not Amtrak .. lol) , and that any terrorist worth his salt could set an IED friggin' well anywhere they wanted???!?!?
 
WTF is up with these idiots???

Re:Patting down people on Trains?? WTF (3, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 3 years ago | (#37872834)

What makes you think this has anything to do with terrorists.

Re:Patting down people on Trains?? WTF (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872888)

I have to assume they do, and are just exercising power because, like any other muscle, it will atrophy if not exercised.

Re:Patting down people on Trains?? WTF (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872936)

Do the TSA people not realize that trains run on well defined paths, on well defined schedules (Well, maybe not Amtrak .. lol) , and that any terrorist worth his salt could set an IED friggin' well anywhere they wanted???!?!?

WTF is up with these idiots???

You have made two errors. 1) The TSA people DO realize that trains are vulnerable in the way you describe. 2) No, they are not idiots.

Given that they are not idiots, but they are doing these things, perhaps you need to wonder what their actual goals are, instead of what they state their goals are?

Re:Patting down people on Trains?? WTF (2)

Altus (1034) | about 3 years ago | (#37872980)

But checking the tracks is hard and expensive and doesn't give anyone a chance to grope someone else against their will.

Considering... (2)

Genda (560240) | about 3 years ago | (#37872648)

The first nuke, that get's detonated on U.S. soil is far more likely to get here by UPS or FedX than missile, the TSA should start groping delivery guys in shorts and leave the rest of us the hell alone.

FedX, when it absolutely, positively has to blow up there over night.

Ron Paul 2012! (4, Informative)

mnewcomb (1042270) | about 3 years ago | (#37872656)

He is the only candidate that is against this sh*t...

Re:Ron Paul 2012! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872730)

...only because he wants to send this country back to the 1800s in terms of education, opportunities, and social services.

Re:Ron Paul 2012! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872788)

see there you idiots go again. most of that stuff you just listed is not within the constitutional scope of the federal gov't. if you want it to be, go ahead and pass an amendment. it's because of people like you who want a huge illegal gov't that we get a huge gov't ignoring our rights. why can't you make that connection? the only way to preserve our rights is to force the gov't to follow the rules of the constitution, not just ignore it and pass whatever laws they want.

Re:Ron Paul 2012! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872872)

Not to endorse any particular candidate, but the 1800s was the last time we had zero federal debt [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Ron Paul 2012! (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 3 years ago | (#37872942)

And slavery!

Re:Ron Paul 2012! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37873010)

...only because he wants to send this country back to the 1800s in terms of education, opportunities, and social services.

... which would be outstanding! Have you looked at literacy rates in the US in the 1800s and how business opportunities boomed, and the unemployment rates compared to today?

Re:Ron Paul 2012! (2, Insightful)

rotide (1015173) | about 3 years ago | (#37872774)

I hate to admit it, but his crazy ideas start looking a little less crazy every day. I do respect him for sticking to his ideals but he takes a sledge hammer to things that really need a little more precision.

Re:Ron Paul 2012! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872822)

He is the only candidate that is against this sh*t...

Too bad he is such a nutjob in other ways...

Re:Ron Paul 2012! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872984)

i agree ron paul is best candidat ever. the other day i was over at carsten's house playing x box and he told me all about ron paul. basically all other candates want to make it ill eagle to play xbox or even charge more mony for it. but ron paul wants to keep it free for reals. also with ron paul everbody will be free. not like right now.

basicly everybody in my class supports ron paul except for that bich caitlin. oh and jugdish the foreign exchange student from indiana. i stood up and told whole class about ron paul and the teacher gave me detension. >.> so i told her that detension was not in the U.S. Contusion and then i got expelled lol

Don't mock (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872664)

This is the future employment of America. 50% go to productive jobs, the other 50% pat them down on their way in and out.

Sexist much? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872680)

Its agents have been conducting more and more surprise groping sessions for women, children and the elderly

Because men are never inappropriately groped?

Because "They" would not enjoy it as much (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | about 3 years ago | (#37872826)

besides in The Courts groping a Man is not a crime (possibly rude but never a crime)

[/snark]

I predict that someday a group of criminals will forge TSA credentials and take hostages in some train station (inventing all sorts of "New Regulations" in the process). Heck all you would have to do is have hidden cameras and a few boxes to "confiscate" things and you could make a nice profit.

Re:Sexist much? (1)

Eponymous Hero (2090636) | about 3 years ago | (#37872906)

well we are but we'd be hard pressed to complain. get it? hard pressed? nevermind...

I wish they would... (4, Interesting)

the_fat_kid (1094399) | about 3 years ago | (#37872706)

..try to search me before I get off the train.
If I refuse? are they going to prevent me from getting off the train?
isn't that kidnapping? I mean they can search me before I get on with the threat that if I'm not searched, I can't board, but can they really keep me from getting off at a domestic stop?
If they touch me with out my permission isn't that assault?
I know that my response to it will be classified as assault.
It's bad enough that they have made air travel unbearable, do we need to let them mess up this too?
I'm sure that it will help create jobs by discouraging americans from traveling at all.

The Drumhead (3, Insightful)

tekrat (242117) | about 3 years ago | (#37872732)

You know, there are some words I've known since I was a schoolboy: "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie, as wisdom and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged.

The bureaucracy is expanding... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872734)

...to meet the needs of the bureaucracy.

Seriously, rule number one of being a bureaucrat is expanding your power base. You can't do that without a justification, so half the time you make them up.

That's it. (5, Interesting)

Saint Aardvark (159009) | about 3 years ago | (#37872740)

I'm a Canadian sysadmin. I love -- LOVE -- the LISA conference (http://www.usenix.org/lisa11/ [usenix.org] ). It's wonderful, informative, and fun; I've made great friends there, learned an incredible amount and generally enjoyed myself enormously.

Last year was the third time I went. The conference was in San Jose. I took a bus and a train -- which took over 24 hours -- from Vancouver to San Jose, rather than fly and go through a naked body scanner. I figured if I'm going to talk the talk, I should walk the walk.

I'd already decided to skip this year's conference; it's in Boston, which is a long way to go by train or bus. I didn't want to be away from my family for that long. But I had been thinking about going next year, when it's going to be in San Diego.

I'm not going now. Not if this crap keeps up. I'll watch the video on my workstation, I'll listen to the MP3s on the bus, and I'll stay here in Canada. We have problems of our own -- but random searches and "papers, please" for the crime of taking the goddamned train are not one of them.

I'll miss y'all.

Re:That's it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37873000)

I feel your pain. This is the same for me. I love the PyCon conference but I won't go through all this shit for a simple conference. Fortunately, it will be in Montréal in 2014 and 2015. I will be able to attend those ones.

You might want to try and convince them to come north.

Ron paul 2012 - The only candidate against this... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872746)

You know what to do. ;)

Re:Ron paul 2012 - The only candidate against this (0)

bmo (77928) | about 3 years ago | (#37872874)

No, I don't.

Because Ron Paul is a nutjob. Yeah, he's good for 5 minutes, but then he keeps on talking, and then you realize just how nuts he is.

And you guys follow him around like he's Jesus or Steve Jobs.

Here are the picks:

Religious Whackos and Social Darwinists vs
Social Darwinist minus some of the Religiosity, vs
More of the same.

That's not a fucking choice.

Fuck you.

--
BMO

If you don't like it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872756)

then take your spaceship and go to another planet.

I'm from Knoxville... (1)

DigitalGodBoy (142596) | about 3 years ago | (#37872792)

I didn't know we have bus service beyond a very basic series of downtown routes anymore. The TSA educated me today!

Avoiding the USA (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872800)

Is it any wonder why many people simply avoid the USA? I know I avoid it whenever I travel. I go so far as to pay extra to stayover within Canada rather than Newark when I travel to the Caribbean. I lay over in Toronto not Newark because I know I'll have way fewer issues. I know there is a TSA in Canada but as my flight will not enter into the USA, it's so much simpler to deal with rather than on a flight that terminates in the USA. Whole different set of rules it seems.

Keep up this Neo-Nazi crazy shit guys! You're only killing your tourism industry.

Re:Avoiding the USA (2)

wsxyz (543068) | about 3 years ago | (#37872910)

You're only killing your tourism industry.

Hey, some people pay good money for that kind of holiday.

Searched getting OFF the train? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872860)

I know that if you choose not to be searched in the airport, you can simply choose not to board your plane. What happens if you choose not to be searched getting off the train? You get to stay ON?

How can you be free when constantly searched? (1)

kawabago (551139) | about 3 years ago | (#37872882)

Freedom means nothing if you are constantly searched by authorities. Not a single plot has been foiled by these searches. Millions of searches and they have turned up nothing. You would think at some point someone would say, "this is ridiculous". It's like the war on drugs, if it isn't working, do it more.

Why you complain citizen? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37872946)

This is exactly the same Democracy and Our Way of Life (TM) we have been QA'ing around the world for centuries. Field testing has shown great promise and now we are deploying it at home (after all Animal Testing abroad). If you read any "foreign news" you would have noticed it much earlier.

shut up and listen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#37873012)

Those of you who aren't involved much just stop complaining.
I commute by bus all the time and I want my tax dollars to be used by TSA personnels to grope my butt everyday, it feels very nice.

Slippery Slopes? (1)

kd5zex (1030436) | about 3 years ago | (#37873036)

The Slippery Slope argument is fallacy and conspiracy theory!!!!

What do they do if they find guns? (2)

kwiqsilver (585008) | about 3 years ago | (#37873038)

I drive on the freeways armed, as I'm sure many people in TN do. I ride the WA state ferries armed. (I did notice the ferries mentioned in TFA were both interstate transit). But what would they do if I set off their metal detectors? Or if they find guns on a traveler in TN? It's perfectly legal to carry guns in most of the USA.
Also, for trains and ferries, they could refuse to let someone who ignores them board, but what if you refuse a search on the freeway? I used to drive through the border patrol checkpoints in AZ and CA (but not on the border) dozens of times per year. They'd ask if I was a citizen, I'd ask if they had a warrant to compel that information. They'd tell me to answer the question. I'd ask if I was being detained. And after a minute of back and forth, they'd tell me to go. They had no authority to compel me to answer, and they knew it. The TSA should be in the same situation. Without a warrant, they shouldn't be able to do anything but request to question or search a person or vehicle.
I guess one benefit of all of this is that being so blatant about their invasive searches will push popular opinion over the tipping point, and Ron Paul won't be alone calling for the TSA's dissolution in Congress.
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