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10k Raspberry Pi Units Available In December

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the just-in-time-for-christmas dept.

Technology 123

An anonymous reader writes "A tweet appeared from Raspberry Pi stating the launch of the $25 PC wasn't happening in November as expected. So I decided to investigate further and contacted Raspberry Pi to see what was going on. Eben Upton was kind enough to email me back and give us some good and bad news. The bad news is: we aren't getting the $25 PC this month as expected. But that's where the bad news ends, as it is still arriving in 2011 for some people. Eben confirmed that an order has been placed for 10,000 units, but they won't arrive until the end of November. That means we will see Raspberry Pi go up for sale in December, but it won't be a typical 'get as many out the door as you can' launch. Those first 10k are earmarked for programmers as software is desperately required before a full consumer launch." Update: Apparently some of the details about the production of units and who can get one from the first batch have changed. Raspberry Pi has updated their front page with the latest information.

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Test? (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923068)

No details have been made available yet as to how those first 10k units will be allocated

"In the space below, write a scheme program that outputs your shipping address"

Re:Test? (2)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923150)

Whoops as I read off the raspberry website

If you want one, and you click on the buy button in time, you can have one; they’re being sold on a first-come, first-served basis, whoever you are, and whether or not you are a programmer.

Still, a good enough programmer can ensure they get one merely by writing a page-watcher up to and including an entire ordering bot.

Macs = scaM (1)

M.Kristopeit84 (2469800) | more than 2 years ago | (#37925404)

Don't buy this garbage, it was vaporware to begin with.

Re:Macs = scaM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37925558)

Check my dubs you silly nigger. That's right, I called you out on your bullshit, nigger. Are you not entertained? Come to my fucking house and do something about it you black, fat, dumb, dickhead.
 
Now check 'em.

Re:Macs = scaM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37925598)

It is sad what passes as trolling these days. And in a Raspberry Pi thread. You people have no respect.

Re:Macs = scaM (1)

M.Kristopeit84 (2469800) | more than 2 years ago | (#37925642)

How 'bout you respect this!

*grabs dick*

Re:Macs = scaM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37925674)

*fondles shaft*

Re:Macs = scaM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37925908)

I don't see anything. Should I get the microscope?

Obligatory question (0)

tacktick (1866274) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923076)

What the frack is Raspberry Pi and why should I care?

Re:Obligatory question (1)

Fwipp (1473271) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923138)

Have you ever even been to slashdot before? http://tech.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=raspberry+pi [slashdot.org]

Re:Obligatory question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37923232)

USB Brick 4-Port Hub [hkcolordigital.com]

how about this one?

Re:Obligatory question (1)

Jeng (926980) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923142)

It is a product that has been talked about quite a bit here on slashdot, but really you should just google it and find out for yourself what it is.

Re:Obligatory question (1)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923154)

A cheap board with an ARM11 and 128MB of RAM for $25. Cute, cheap, but slow.

Re:Obligatory question (2)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923180)

But low-power and ideal for server use. Currently I have a old laptop functioning just as an MPD server, it's overkill for such needs. I'd love to replace it with a Raspberry Pi.

Re:Obligatory question (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923372)

Considering that the Arduino Uno sells for 30$USD [sparkfun.com] , I'm still impressed by the specifications of the Raspberry Pi.

Re:Obligatory question (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37924586)

Well, they're talking like they're going to double the price and take half as a "donation" now. So it'll be a $70 device (assuming you want the good one), until they decide to sell them the way they said they would.

Just a heads-up to anyone that got too excited about this.

Re:Obligatory question (1)

lobiusmoop (305328) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923158)

Nothing for you to be concerned about at all - it's going to be hard enough time getting hold of one of these for Christmas already I think.

Re:Obligatory question (4, Informative)

tacktick (1866274) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923178)

Here is the quick and dirty from their website:

The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a UK registered charity (Registration Number 1129409) which exists to promote the study of computer science and related topics, especially at school level, and to put the fun back into learning computing.

We plan to develop, manufacture and distribute an ultra-low-cost computer, for use in teaching computer programming to children. We expect this computer to have many other applications both in the developed and the developing world.

Our first product is about the size of a credit card, and is designed to plug into a TV or be combined with a touch screen for a low cost tablet. The expected price is $25 for a fully-configured system.

Provisional specification

        700MHz ARM11
        128MB or 256MB of SDRAM
        OpenGL ES 2.0
        1080p30 H.264 high-profile decode
        Composite and HDMI video output
        USB 2.0
        SD/MMC/SDIO memory card slot
        General-purpose I/O
        Optional integrated 2-port USB hub and 10/100 Ethernet controller
        Open software (Ubuntu, Iceweasel, KOffice, Python)

Re:Obligatory question (1)

jones_supa (887896) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923188)

There's an informative Wikipedia article about it too.

Re:Obligatory question (2)

konohitowa (220547) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923544)

Jeez. Read the summary. Obviously it's a company that's going to launch 25 dollars. Presumably into space.

As to why you should care; well if you're a nerd you just will. 'Cause, like, this is slashdot and stuff.

Re:Obligatory question (3, Insightful)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923634)

How the fuck was it easier to write a comment than to fucking Google it [lmgtfy.com] ? And how is there always some asshat who does this every single story?

Re:Obligatory question (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37923714)

What is Google and why should I use it?

Re:Obligatory question (1)

element-o.p. (939033) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924212)

Thanks a lot, Mr. Coward. I just laughed coffee all over my keyboard at work, and now I have to explain to my boss how that happened, and why I need a new keyboard! (Seriously, well played, sir. Well played, indeed!)

Not Exactly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37923082)

They just posted a clarification on their home page. http://www.raspberrypi.org/

Company corrects this (2)

Toe, The (545098) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923108)

Please read from the horse's mouth:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/ [raspberrypi.org]

Quote:
An article in today's www.geek.com suggested a couple of things -- first, that we're already producing units, and secondly, that we're limiting sales to programmers only at first. Both of these appear to be the result of some horrible miscommunication (blame Eben; he's very tired).

Do want ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37923164)

I have been waiting to get my hands on one of these devices since the project first started. I'm loosing patience.

Re:Do want ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928102)

So you've the attention span of a haddock and the patience of a toddler?

The proof-of-concept (the natty little thumb drive) was announced in May 2011. That was the FIRST public announcement of the project. 6 months ago.
The development boards were produced in September 2011. To get to production in 6 months from POC is pretty good going. All along, the Raspberry Pi people have said "Last quarter 2011 for the first batch" The last quarter doesn't end until December 31st, so I'd say there's a bit of time yet before a timetable announced in Summer becomes invalid. Loosen up, spend the waiting time by deciding how many you're going to buy!

Delays (1)

egranlund (1827406) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923238)

...and the delays begin. The vaporware process continues...

Re:Delays (1)

ZeroSumHappiness (1710320) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923382)

They're a month behind plan -- A and B boards are set to go out December 2011 at the moment versus November 2011 as initially intended. This is hardly on the same caliber as most vaporware, which tends to make six month leaps away from the deadline at a time, not one. Also, I'm sure they will soon be posting about the initial testing.

Re:Delays (5, Informative)

ebenupton (2424660) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923762)

You know how it is. Haters gonna hate :)

In all seriousness, we haven't taken anyone's money, and have spent a lot of our own time and money on this. We've been very open with people about the challenges we face in getting something like this done, and will continue to be open in the run up to and aftermath of launch. We're big boys, and can handle the hate.

Eben Upton
Raspberry Pi Foundation

Re:Delays (1)

harrkev (623093) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923902)

I wish you and your group all the best. Thanks for being open and honest. And might I add that once the programmers have had their fun, I would love to grab one of the 2nd batch, once all the hardware and software bugs are gone. My Verilog is much, much better than my C, so jumping in right now does not make much sense for me.

Re:Delays (5, Interesting)

ebenupton (2424660) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923946)

Thanks for the kind words. I think we're about to learn some fun lessons about what selling tens of thousands of something involves, and we'll be doing it all in public :)

Eben

Re:Delays (1)

bingbangboom (2457958) | more than 2 years ago | (#37925664)

Thanks for the kind words. I think we're about to learn some fun lessons about what selling tens of thousands of something involves, and we'll be doing it all in public :)

Eben

You have got to be shitting me. There will be nothing fun about mistakes to developers, students, and endusers. Please hand this off to a retailer: * $60-100 retail packaging sold at newegg or amazon and drop shipped from your location. * You get one and your charity gets one ala One Laptop per Child (OLPC)

Re:Delays (1)

adolf (21054) | more than 2 years ago | (#37930472)

Seriously? You propose to increase the price times two, or maybe even quadruple it, and still wind up dealing with the logistics of shipping thousands of packages?

What possible benefit could this have for anyone?

Meanwhile, if you want them sold at Amazon so badly for whatever reason, then put them there yourself -- nothing is stopping you. If you really think the market will bear a price of $60-100 for such an item, then there should be plenty of profit incentive for you to play middleman. And if you feel like giving some of your profit back to the charity, I'm sure they'll be happy to accept your donation...

Re:Delays (1)

bingbangboom (2457958) | more than 2 years ago | (#37930620)

You would be buying two; one for yourself and one goes to their charitable works. They want these to go to students/developers/etc eventually. 10K first come, first serve sale is not going to do that. They admittedly have very little experience with retail logistics; turn that over to someone who does know something and concentrate on what your charity is trying to accomplish. This is why projects become fail as resources are spread too thin putting out thousands of small fires.

Re:Delays (1)

element-o.p. (939033) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924280)

"You can have it now. You can have it cheap. You can have it good. Pick any two."

If the Raspberry Pi can actually meet the design specs at the target price (or even anywhere near the target price), waiting another month or two for them to become available will definitely be worth it. Best of luck to you guys (and gals) at the Foundation. I, for one, will be eagerly awaiting the announcement that they are available for sale.

Re:Delays (4, Interesting)

ebenupton (2424660) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924726)

It's interesting that the community's scepticism about the price point is pretty much inversely related to my own. As we've nailed down the BOM and assembly costs, and become more confident that we have a saleable product with margin, the level of doubt *outside* the foundation has crept up :)

The proof of the business model pudding will be when we've sold 100k and I still have a house.

Eben
Raspberry Pi Foundation

Re:Delays (1)

element-o.p. (939033) | more than 2 years ago | (#37925010)

Like I said, sign me up for one :)

Just to be clear, since after re-reading my earlier comment, I see how it could be misunderstood -- I think you guys can do it. I was responding to the naysayers' claims that a 1-month delay is proof you can't do it. The way I see it, your commitment to providing a great product at a phenomenal price might mean I have to have a little more patience before I get my hands on one. That's understandable, and IMHO, it will be totally worth the wait.

Re:Delays (1)

Roger W Moore (538166) | more than 2 years ago | (#37927550)

The proof of the business model pudding will be when we've sold 100k and I still have a house.

Well my 6 year old son is really keen to get one. This is probably a bit younger than your target audience and I'm not sure how good he will be at programming but having a computer boot to a prompt like the old Beeb model B I learnt to program on is a really good start. All we need now are some magazines with games to type in - debugging the typos in those after entering them by hand was a great way to learn - although perhaps source code games we could download with one or two deliberate bugs in them would help cut to the educational bit!

Re:Delays (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37924388)

Don't hate you guys at all. I think what you have put together, and what you might decide to do in the future is a thing of beauty. And not just the hardware, but the aim, the ideas, the fun, and the cool of it. A computer from ARM, with DNA of a spectrum/C64/BBC B/A - plugs in a TV, and will get all the kids back in that. And some of us Kids are rather bigger than you might think ;P

I hope you sell millions of them, light up the world, and go on to make cheaper, faster, better and more fun stuff. Its fantastic, and bloody awesome, and I wish you masses of luck. And yes, I will be getting one or more :)

I hope you guys will cross one bridge tho, and thats after it takes off - and I believe it will, and that would be to put it in a small netbook chassis with screen. The old TV paradigm has some mileage in it, but a $99 unit with chassis/screen. Awesome.

Good luck!

Re:Delays (2)

ebenupton (2424660) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924692)

Thanks. The selling millions thing is an interesting one. When you look at the amount of working capital required to get beyond the 100k units per annum point, it's pretty intimidating. Which is why we'll be giving away the schematics and Gerbers in due course to enable clone makers.

Eben
Raspberry Pi Foundation

Secondary delays (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37925276)

Eben, since you're here, I'll ply you with a question.

The first units go out a month late -- who cares. That's just a minor additional wait.

But then, soon after, you start to hear back from the programmers that there are problems. (Naively, I assume this to be expected. But I've never launched a computer.) You diagnose the problems, try fixes, change things, come up with a version 1.1, and send it out.

That seems like a place where we might see a much more significant delay. How long do you think the cycle will be between first mass usage and v. 1.1?

Re:Secondary delays (1)

ebenupton (2424660) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928622)

Good question. We know the Beagleboard went through quite a long revision period before it got completely stable, though we've paid a bit more attention to things like ground plane configuration up front so hopefully we should converge a bit faster. Eyeballing it, probably a few layout tweaks in each production batch for the first six months.

Re:Delays (1)

ejamie (765128) | more than 2 years ago | (#37925394)

The transparency of your team is refreshing. While you can't please everyone, I'm confident this product will achieve the educational objectives for many users.

Myself, I am excited to help my children build up their interest in computer science as they explore their /own/ RPis.

Re:Delays (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37923726)

Would you rather they start shipping when they only have 3.14k units in inventory?

I want more than an arduino(s) (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923250)

even with multiple arduinos, there's only so much you can do.

I'm hoping this pi thing will be cheap and yet easy enough to access low level things and 'be a controller' too. carrying linux around is pretty heavy (for a controller) and a LOT of software to test, validate and worry about. arduinos have setup() and loop() and that is your world. its such a simple and secure world. add linux to controllers and all hell can break loose if you are not careful.

when the pi is buyable, I'll get one or two. at the very least, I need a webserver and ip-stack (and firewall) front-end to my real embedded systems. perhaps I'll serial couple them and keep things insulated that way until I'm sure the pi and its ip networking path is secure enough to be given direct control over embedded controlled physical things. but as a front-end doing web stuff I'm sure its going to be more than powerful enough.

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (4, Insightful)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923376)

The GPIO expansion ports have been intentionally made difficult to access on the Pi (to eliminate risk of accidentally plugging in something that makes it unhappy is the claim, but probably the real reason is that easy physical access to the ports would more rapidly piss off those who buy it and realize the BCM2835 datasheet isn't available unless you're a megacorporation or an ex-employee like Eben is.) Heck, the product page on Broadcom's website for this device is nothing but a marketing blurb. Anyone familiar with Broadcom's history with open source is not going to be surprised by this - it's typical classic Broadcom.

If you want to do embedded computing work and not just have a set-top-box without a case - look at the new BeagleBone. It's more expensive, but with a significantly faster CPU (same clock speed, but the Cortex-A8 does much better than the ARM11 IPC-wise) and the I/O is brought out to standard 0.1" pin headers. In addition, it takes 20 seconds on Google to find the AM3358's product page, which immediately gives you an internal block diagram of the chip, and the full TRM (datasheet) for the chip is right near the top of the page.

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37924016)

I was excited about the BeagleBone until I got to the part about needing a daughter card to drive video... I have a BeagleBoard here in front of me, with the HDMI out on it, different ways of slicing the cake. Gumstix is yet another flavor for ARM developers.

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (2)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924860)

Yeah, Gumstix is kinda need for embedded work too. If you want video interfaces, the BeagleBoard is the way to go. The problem is that accessing the GPIO/SPI/I2C etc of the Beagle is pretty difficult just due to how the headers are laid out. There also isn't that much "nifty I/O" for embedded work on the Beagle, as its processor is more "general purpose" oriented.

The Bone is an entirely different animal - much more GPIO and more flexible I/O.

The SPI interfaces on that Sitara are insane... They appear to be able to run at tens of megahertz clock rate, there's two McSPIs, and each supports two enable lines.

I've had a project in mind for a while that would have a Xilinx Spartan-3E's BRAM exposed to a host processor via SPI - Originally I was going to use an LM3S6965 as the host, but the Sitara will be much easier. The BeagleBoard's expansion arrangement would've made this very difficult.

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (4, Insightful)

ebenupton (2424660) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924064)

Not sure where the hate is coming from here. I totally agree Beaglebone is a very neat product for people with a bit more cash and no need to drive a display.

And ex-employee? My badge didn't let me in the car park this morning, so maybe you know something I don't :)

Eben
Raspberry Pi Foundation

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37924582)

Not sure where the hate is coming from here.

Anyone that has had tried to cooperate with Broadcom when trying to obtain data sheets, source code or even a straight answer if a product advertised on their website is actually in production and available knows where the strong negative emotions are from. It would be a pleasant surprise if this project demonstrates that Broadcom has somehow changed for the better.

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (2, Informative)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924798)

"Not sure where the hate is coming from here."
Where's the TRM? Where's the datasheet? That's where the hate is coming from. That and years of bad memories involving Broadcom WLAN chipsets on Linux due to lack of datasheet access (and, in general, lack of access to any documentation at all)

Compare the following webpages:
http://www.broadcom.com/products/BCM2835 [broadcom.com] - Marketing blurb, no block diagrams, no datasheets, no nothing

http://www.ti.com/product/am3358 [ti.com] - Block diagram, family parametric comparison, and an EXTREMELY complete datasheet

For someone like the OP who is planning on doing embedded computing (by necessity, more "low-level" than just using the device as an STB), having a processor datashete is an absolute and complete necessity

Since the BCM2835's datasheet is not available (in typical Broadcom style) - why even bother wasting board space on a GPIO/SPI/I2C header that no one who purchases the Pi is going to be able to be able to use?

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (4, Informative)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 2 years ago | (#37925168)

A little more info, more along the lines of why there is so much generic Broadcom hate and distrust within the Linux community:

http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43 [linuxwireless.org] - If you go down about 3/4 of the page, you'll see that:
Until 9/9/2010, the only drivers for ANY broadcom device were created via reverse engineering. Broadcom provided ZERO support to the b43 developers, and I'm fairly certain they still don't have any proper technical documentation. (Sorry Broadcom, but source code isn't documentation.)
After 9/9/2010 - only THREE chipsets (out of quite many) had any sort of "official" open source driver support for Linux from Broadcom.

Meanwhile, chipsets from other manufacturers (Intel, Atheros, Intersil/Harris, Ralink) have had robust open source support for a VERY long time. For many years, Broadcom WLAN chipsets were completely useless in Linux due to Broadcom's refusal to provide any documentation.

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (1)

chispito (1870390) | more than 2 years ago | (#37927678)

For someone like the OP who is planning on doing embedded computing (by necessity, more "low-level" than just using the device as an STB), having a processor datashete is an absolute and complete necessity

Since the BCM2835's datasheet is not available (in typical Broadcom style) - why even bother wasting board space on a GPIO/SPI/I2C header that no one who purchases the Pi is going to be able to be able to use?

Well, damn. I guess the school children for whom the device is intended will have to make due without the datasheet. Won't somebody please think of the children!?!

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 2 years ago | (#37925606)

So is the GPIO, SPI, and I2C not accessible? A header would be ideal but I could live with just pads. If not then that really makes me sad since interfacing computers to the real world offers so much potential in the way learning.

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37925866)

Eben, I'm looking forward to getting a few boards.

However, what Andy Dodd says are valid comments.

A TRM and a datasheet are a must-have.

Also, consider this: for any proprietary parts, there WILL be attempts by the community to reverse engineer and open up those. That community effort would be better used by coming up with awesome new uses for the board.

So the question is where do you want the community to focus. Open board = new products, new uses, new Broadcom chip sales. Closed = re-inventing the (restrictive) wheel, wasted effort, less new uses, less new products, less Broadcom chip sales.

All glory to Broadcom, but I'm willing to bet real money on that there is absolutely nothing in the Broadcom IP that is being protected here which the competitors would not already know or have implemented themselves...

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (1)

ebenupton (2424660) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928684)

I completely understand the concerns around availability of datasheets and TRMs. For people who want this, Raspberry Pi may well not be a suitable platform; I'd suggest these people consider the many other small-board computers that are available *today*.

What I don't understand is why the OP feels he needs to say "probably the real reason is that easy physical access to the ports would more rapidly piss off those who buy it and realize the BCM2835 datasheet isn't available unless you're a megacorporation or an ex-employee like Eben is". That's just random hate.

Eben Upton
Raspberry Pi Foundation

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (1)

harrkev (623093) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924142)

I have never heard of this before, but, after doing some reading, the BeagleBone does not really fill the same niche, and is targeted for a different audience.

The BeagleBone does NOT have any sort of standard I/O other than USB, and Ethernet, and roll-your-own digital I/O. You have to buy a separate board in order to drive a monitor. Great for embedded stuff, but not really good for a cheap, low-cost, general-purpose PC.

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924810)

If you read the post I replied to, it's clear that the person I replied to is focused more on the embedded control in their desires than on having a general-purpose PC.

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (1)

Jamie Lokier (104820) | more than 2 years ago | (#37927824)

These days there's plenty of intersection between embedded control (with GPIOs, I2C etc.) and driving some kind of display.

At the moment, for those applications at low volumes (1000), Raspberry Pi is the only thing I've seen at a competitive price. Everything else - including mini/nano-ITX PCs - are either way too expensive, or lack good video by current standards, or (thinking of STB chips) you can't get the parts without 10-100k volumes, a high initial fee, a big fat NDA, and very buggy drivers/SDK (been there...).

I too am sad that there's not a lot of chip data. I will be getting some Raspberry Pis to trial applications on, but also testing absolutely everything I need to use on it before ordering in quantity. Never trust a manufacturer's specifications - and never trust drivers you can't fix yourself without *lots* of testing. Especially where video is concerned.

It's kinda weird that they can sell them for less than comparable components can be easily bought for, but kinda wonderful compared with everything else out there, if it works as well as they say. I wonder if the low price will really last. And I wonder how long before someone starts a Nouveau-style GPU reverse engineering project ;-)

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (1)

Arlet (29997) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923414)

If you want to do low-level hacking, like on Arduino, but you'd like some more speed and memory, and have ethernet and USB, it's probably better to look for a simpler ARM based microcontroller.

These guys have some nice boards (click ARM on the left): http://olimex.com/dev/index.html [olimex.com]

The Pi doesn't have much user programmable I/O, and it's also harder to access SoC features from the application, or get really accurate timing (Linux isn't very good at real-time stuff).

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (1)

element-o.p. (939033) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924472)

even with multiple arduinos, there's only so much you can do.

Yep. I've got one Arduino, with another currently en route, but I definitely want a Raspberry Pi as well. The Arduino is great for certain things -- for example, the one I have at home just became the beginnings of a home weather station this weekend -- and I plan to use the second one for miscellaneous hardware hacking and eventually for use on some model rocketry/RC experiments. However, the Pi seems to be better suited for some of the rocketry/RC experiments I would like to try, like running a USB web cam across a WiFi link in flight. That might be possible on an Arduino using an XBee and one of the various camera shields, but frankly, it sounds like a lot more work than it's worth on an Arduino.

To put this in terms of the requisite /. car analogy, sure...it's possible to take a pile of raw materials *only* and build a custom car, but realistically, are you really going to turn raw rubber into your own tires, or are you just going to go to the local tire shop and buy a set of Goodyears (or Pirelli, or...)?

Re:I want more than an arduino(s) (1)

DrogMan (708650) | more than 2 years ago | (#37925500)

even with multiple arduinos, there's only so much you can do.

What about Arduino plus a propellor? http://www.xgamestation.com/view_product.php?id=51 [xgamestation.com]

Looks fun - wish there was more time to the day to play with these things...

Is it really open? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37923322)

Is the Raspberry PI based on really open sources or is it "closed binary blob hope you don't mind" open? You know, like most of the Linux drivers from Broadcom. If it's really open, then I'm interested. If it isn't, then I'll put my efforts into something with hardware that comes with full documentation.

Re:Is it really open? (2)

ZeroSumHappiness (1710320) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923422)

Some of it is open, some of it is not. Broadcom has certain IP entanglements that prevent them from open sourcing everything. The graphics drivers are almost certainly going to be closed source, but I believe Broadcom has a bounty out for creating an open-source TCP/IP stack that performs as well as their current closed source implementation. Pray tell, though, what hardware is there currently that's super-low-power, low cost and does 1080p30 h.264 and is all open source drivers?

Re:Is it really open? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37924424)

...Pray tell, though, what hardware is there currently that's super-low-power, low cost and does 1080p30 h.264 and is all open source drivers?

Well, that's *the* question, isn't it. I'm just not interested in developing for or working on platforms that are basically closed. That goes for platforms that are sort of open a bit but the good stuff is kept secret.

...I believe Broadcom has a bounty out for creating an open-source TCP/IP stack that performs as well as their current closed source implementation...

Errr... I don't get that. If it has to do with hardware and Broadcom won't release info on how to program the hardware, why would anyone be interested in that? If it isn't about hardware and is only about the TCP/IP stack, then I think that ground has pretty much been covered. There are many, many TCP/IP stacks that are open source and span the entire gamut from big, heavy, full-featured stacks to teeny, tiny, special-purpose stacks.

I don't see the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37923386)

So don't I already have this when I loaded Linux on a cheap router with USB support?

Re:I don't see the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37923818)

The point is that there is not a similar product at this price point already. Are you aware of a system I can buy today with USB, HDMI out, 700Mhz CPU, 256MB of RAM that's very small and only costs $25?

Re:I don't see the point (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37925142)

My fear is with closed drivers this will very quickly not really be able to do too much with the HDMI or the fancy GPU unless you run an old kernel and X. It will all be unaccelerated and drop behind the graphics stack development the moment Broadcom can't be bothered keeping up with Linux graphics development and move on to the next shiny. As it's closed, the community can't improve or continue development when Broadcom ceases to care. So it could be quite a short lined $25.....

Also the GPU boot thing scares me a bit. Tivoization and DRM come to mind as possible reasons for this kind of protection. That or they really really don't want the community to be able to write their own drivers. Not sure of a "nice" reason for it.

Probably still buy one in hope though.

Re:I don't see the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37925186)

er, no... either 128M RAM at $25, or 256M RAM at $35.

Re:I don't see the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37926332)

Well, apparently you can't buy a Raspberry Pi either. So?

MAME? (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923390)

Is it powerful enough to run MAME, at least older versions?

Re:MAME? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37923868)

Quite. It's got a 700 MHz ARM CPU and a 24 gigaflops/second GPU. Source [elinux.org] .

Re:MAME? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37925244)

It runs Quake 3.

Clarification (5, Informative)

ebenupton (2424660) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923440)

I'd encourage people to visit www.raspberrypi.org to read the clarification we've posted. Summary

- we're in the process of accumulating parts kits for the first 10k unit production run
- we'll be doing a phased launch, to avoid the risk of kicking out 10k units and having them come straight back with a trivial early-life bug
- the majority of devices will be available on a first-come first-served basis, with a small number held back for continuity of supply to key partners

Eben Upton
Raspberry Pi Foundation

Re:Clarification (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37929234)

0K sets of parts are ordered. This has nothing to do with availability of usable systems.

USB Slim 16-Port Hub [hkcolordigital.com]

Re:Clarification (1)

JRowe47 (2459214) | more than 2 years ago | (#37929890)

Thanks for that - and thanks for keeping up on slashdot :) Nice to see input from the head honcho!

end of Arduino? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37923442)

The Arduino is currently the defacto standard for amateur electronics control. Arduinos are programmed in a scaled-down version of C. C is fine for simple things, but gets more difficult when dealing with complex algorithms.

But if this project hits its pricepoint, it will be cheaper than Arduino AND it will allow even high-level languages, like Ruby or Java, to be used. Would there be any reason to use Arduino if this comes to pass?

_NOT_ the end of Arduino? (3, Insightful)

eparker05 (1738842) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923600)

This product is no more suitable for microcontroller applications than an eee-pc.

Arduino's appeal is that of low level electronic access. It can take voltage readings or output PWM and digital voltage signals. More advanced projects use serial or I2C communication with peripherals but it is all really low level access. As they say, Arduino is for physical computing.

Raspberry Pi is meant to be an inexpensive computer.... an application platform where the primary input and output are a keyboard and a monitor.

They may both be small, green, and electronic, but they are no more competitors than donuts are to potato (starchy brown food?).

Re:_NOT_ the end of Arduino? (4, Informative)

ebenupton (2424660) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923686)

I'd agree with this. Although we provide a bit of GPIO, we're aiming for a rather different market from Arduino. In particular, we consume much more power, don't have the ADC and PWM facilities that Arduino offers, and only do 3v3 I/O. Of course, I'd like to see the Arduino *tools* running on the Raspberry Pi.

Eben

Re:_NOT_ the end of Arduino? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37924028)

The Pi has "up to 16 GPIO pins, SPI, IC, UART" according to wikipedia. PWM should be easy to do in software. And if ADC is needed, wouldn't that be a rather simple add-on?

I realize it isn't designed to compete with Arduino, but the specs, as published, suggest that it has similar I/O capabilities combined with superior software capabilities, and at a better price.

Re:_NOT_ the end of Arduino? (1)

Arlet (29997) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924244)

PWM is only easy in software if you don't mind it being slow and jittery.

Of course, you can add-on an ADC, but that's messy. You'd be better off going with a simple microcontroller that has them included. You might even hook up that microcontroller to the Pi so you can show the results on the monitor, or control it through a web server.

Re:_NOT_ the end of Arduino? (1)

mirix (1649853) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928230)

That's intentional though. The ARM and MIPS chips used in say, routers, have various amounts of i2c/spi/gpio/pwm/timers/uart/etc, sometimes ADC, DAC. GPIOs are usually configurable as push-pull or open drain, various switching speeds, etc. It's not like an old x86 chip that only has bus I/O and absolutely no peripherals integrated. Sounds more like a microcontroller than a processor, doesn't it...

Now, with proper documentation* you can use all of that in linux quite well, or you could go bare metal if you wanted to. An ARM9 based LED clock is overkill, but it's certainly up for the task as well as an arduino, especially if the price is the same. Plus it can do things your arduino never will without expensive add-ons, say pull some RSS feeds through ethernet and display it on your clock.
Or sync via NTP. (That's a weak example, as I've done it on AVRs, although it costed me more than the pi). the sky is the limit here, in what it can do vs. a little 8bit mcu.
The clock can also double as your webserver, maybe display some hit statistics in realtime... have it buzz on intrusion attempts, or change color every 50 hits, etc, etc.

*Proper documentation is never going to happen with Broadcom. I wish they would prove me wrong, but past performance shows no chance in hell.

Re:end of Arduino? (3, Informative)

Vairon (17314) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923736)

If your project needs more I/O pins than the Raspberry PI makes available and does not require the increased memory, storage and CPU available in the Raspberry PI then an Arduino might be better suited for you.

Also Arduino boards can be programmed in pure ANSI C. All the Arduino development library does is provide some functions, headers and libraries to make embedded programming more portable across several Arduino models of hardware. You can also write in pure C++ as well there's just not a STL library ported to the Arduino yet AFAIK.

Re:end of Arduino? (3, Interesting)

ebenupton (2424660) | more than 2 years ago | (#37923982)

Massive agreement with this. We're *big* Arduino fans (and I personally am a big Atmel AVR fan). The few bright spots in computing education right now are around exactly this sort of cheap and cheerful hardware platform. We wouldn't want to do anything to undermine them.

Eben
Raspberry Pi Foundation

Re:end of Arduino? (1)

X86Daddy (446356) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924006)

Power consumption might show some major differences. The ARM chips sip power compared to x86 brethren, but the little Atmel chips sip even less. Plus, Arduinos can be simplified down to the chip itself, if you're prototyping and building custom devices... here's the best explanation of how simple you can go: http://www.instructables.com/id/The-RRRRRRRRRRBA-or-What-They-Dont-Teach-You-in-/ [instructables.com]

I don't think the Pi will be that cheap ($3), that low power-consumption, or that easily integrated into truly tiny custom devices.

Re:end of Arduino? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37924264)

I don't think the Pi will be that cheap ($3), that low power-consumption, or that easily integrated into truly tiny custom devices.

Ya but, that $3 doesn't get you USB, HDMI out, 700Mhz CPU, or 256MB of RAM. Mr. Apple, please meet Mr. Orange.

Re:end of Arduino? (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924656)

No, but it gets you the Atmel ATmega328 that is the core of the 30$ Arduino platform. And if you can use the internal oscillator, all you need for external parts is a tiny capacitor on the power pins.

Re:end of Arduino? (1)

X86Daddy (446356) | more than 2 years ago | (#37925708)

Those are good citations of other differences, but all areas in which the Pi is "better." I was addressing this question:

Would there be any reason to use Arduino if this comes to pass?

Like you say, apples and oranges, because the Arduino still fits some other requirements that the Pi can't... the Pi is not a superset of features of the Arduino.

Re:end of Arduino? (2)

element-o.p. (939033) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924662)

IMHO, yes, and you gave the use case yourself: "Arduinos are programmed in a scaled-down version of C. C is fine for simple things, but gets more difficult when dealing with complex algorithms." As I've said elsewhere, I've already got two Arduino Unos, but I'd still like a Raspberry Pi for a couple of more complex projects that would be difficult to implement on the Arduino. OTOH, a Raspberry Pi would be overkill for most of the things I've already done with an Arduino. Actually, I'm not even sure how you would connect a Raspberry Pi to something like an IR sensor, a BMP085 temperature/air pressure sensor, or a string of LEDs. Maybe I missed it, but are there even raw CMOS or TTL level outputs on the Raspberry Pi without having to break out USB or video outputs?

Re:end of Arduino? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37925058)

They've got 3.3v GPIO, SPI & I2C. The IR, temp/air, and LEDs would be trivial.

It's the lack of ADCs that is inconvenient.

C? (1)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 2 years ago | (#37929224)

C is fine for simple things, but gets more difficult when dealing with complex algorithms.

C is lovely for complex work. Have no idea where such a claim would come from. Perhaps from someone who isn't very good a programming in C.

Site is crushed, guess they're running it on one (1)

I'm just joshin (633449) | more than 2 years ago | (#37924484)

Slashdot effect is in order.

Re:Site is crushed, guess they're running it on on (1)

gbl08ma (1904378) | more than 2 years ago | (#37925160)

The only problems I've seen in their website while the Slashdot effect keeps going, were Database connection errors on the forum, and that's solved after one or two reloads of the page (still, not nice when you are posting something on the forum and you loose it all).
I guess the problem here is more related to the memory-hungry SQL database engine, than to the [virtual] hardware the website is running on. In fact, I have had several servers, some virtual and some not (old computers), with only 128MB of RAM - the same as on the provisional specs of a Raspberry Pi Model A. Everything works well with nginx and PHP5, until you add SQL. When that happens and you get a lot of visitors... out of memory!

Re:Site is crushed, guess they're running it on on (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37925496)

/.'ed

Maybe they should read a book on Apple... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37926134)

So... geeks without a tack records of producing are not producing. Film at 11.

This is plain wrong (1)

ZealotOfZuse (2430488) | more than 2 years ago | (#37926226)

10K sets of parts are ordered. This has nothing to do with availability of usable systems. See for yourself what Eben says on the web site: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/302 [raspberrypi.org]

I don't get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37926878)

Why don't they just buy a few Makerbots and print out complete units? I heard on slashdot that 3D printing completely revolutionizes home manufacturing. Is this an exaggeration? I mean, I don't fully understand how a 1300$ hot glue gun on the end of a stepper motor's screw is supposed to print out chemically pure silicon from ABS feedstock, but I trust the people on Slashdot. If they say we'll mine helium-3 from the Moon, well then by golly, transmutation is surely a common occurrence in the home now?

The usual slashdot crowd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37927772)

are a bunch of bloody wazzocks. They:

Won't RTFA
Will jump to conclusions
Have pet hates
Always know something thats far better for what THEY want to do, at a rather increased price.

Hey folks. Its a competent little computer at pocket-money prices, that has a stated aim, eg to provide a cheap and easy way to encourage youngsters to view a computer as something to create software on rather than just consume apps. That there are other ways to use it is a bonus. That it addresses a range of demographics is a serendipitous marvel.

Here's a tip to you all. Google Raspberry Pi, have a look at what's currently being done by members of the development community with the alpha boards, hell even have a look at the website. Then STFU.

WIth sprinkles. :-)

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