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Consumer Tech: an IT Nightmare

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the customer-is-always-right dept.

Apple 533

snydeq writes "Advice Line's Bob Lewis discusses the difficulties IT faces in embracing the kinds of consumer technologies business users are demanding they support. 'Let's assume the consumerization of IT is the big trend many think it is. But using consumer tech in a business environment is a very different matter from being satisfied with consumer tech in a business environment. One of IT's legitimate gripes is that we're often asked to turn consumer-grade technology into business-grade technology with a wave of our magic wands. On top of the intrinsic technical challenges, there's this: IT doesn't have anything that even resembles a methodology for performing the business analysis we need to figure out what it means to put consumer tech to productive day-to-day use.'"

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Very True (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37927886)

One of the hardest fights I've had in IT is explaining why I spend $300 a drive from HP and not $70 for the same capacity from Newegg.

That and explaining that a 48 port gigabit Linksys is NOT even in the same class as a 4948.

Too many business people very IT as a cost center and too many IT managers/directors do a poor job of explaining the value of their org.

Re:Very True (4, Insightful)

Miamicanes (730264) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928004)

Yeah, the $70 drive from Newegg is 7200 RPM, 2+TB, and has 64mb cache. The $300 drive from HP is 5400rpm, 320mb, and comes with a piece of paper saying it's 'certified' compatible with the server, and they'll replace it free when it dies 7-18 months from now (same as the $70 drive's equally short lifespan). What a bargain.

Spending more for SLC vs MLC? sure. Ditto, for the network gear. But don't kid yourself... "enterprise" drives are no less failure-prone than their Best Buy Brethren. Nowadays, they're *all* crap. :-(

Re:Very True (2)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928108)

But HP will overnight me a drive once I send them a diagnostic report. And the drive has custom firmware and guaranteed to work with HP branded raid controllers

Re:Very True (1)

chill (34294) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928600)

Really? How about spending $140 and buying TWO of the cheaper drives instead, and putting one aside for a spare. Or a hot spare, if you so wish.

Sun used the same excuses to vastly overcharge on components. The only reason it happens is so the companies can pad their bottom line with high-margin items.

Re:Very True (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928608)

Or you just pay $240 (3 drives * $80/drive) to keep extra drives on hand while they go through the replacement cycle.

Re:Very True (3, Informative)

sribe (304414) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928224)

Spending more for SLC vs MLC? sure. Ditto, for the network gear. But don't kid yourself... "enterprise" drives are no less failure-prone than their Best Buy Brethren. Nowadays, they're *all* crap.

Really? With Seagate Barracuda LP drives I had a 95% failure rate within a year. (Different batches of drives in different servers in different data centers, FYI.) With Seagate Constellation ES I've seen 5%. Now granted, the "enterprise" drives shouldn't even have that high of a failure rate, but they are a LOT better.

Re:Very True (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928728)

There is no way you had a 95% failure rate within a year unless something else was going wrong. Maybe an inconsistent power supply from the electric company?? Maybe way way too little RAM for whatever they were doing?? I hope you returned them all since that's like at least 19 out of 20 in under 12 months, they had to be under warranty.

Re:Very True (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928116)

Too many business people very IT as a cost center and too many IT managers/directors do a poor job of explaining the value of their org.

Which is why I left the IT cost center side and became a IT consultant instead. Paid the same money for normal hours, but as a consultant I get full overtime compensation and 2x rate for weekend work. I can highly recommend it. Staying with an in-house IT organisation that is treated like a second class corporate citizen is painful and a dead-end for your career. Being well paid as a consultant makes it a lot more enjoyable and you get exposed to a lot more people that might be future employers.. Go for it!

Re:Very True (1)

skids (119237) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928652)

Too much salesmanship and time spent maintaining personal connections for me. I'm just not wired for that. I just found an IT shop that isn't treated as a second class corporate citizens. It's easy to get what you need to do a job if A) you have reasonable bosses that trust you and B) you don't ask for crap you don't need, which includes seriously introspecting about whether you are asking for something based on the needs of the organization, or some personal dogma.

Re:Very True (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928162)

So why not buy 3 drives for $210, or 4 drives for $280 and RAID them, that way you don't have to worry about when a drive goes down??

Re:Very True (1)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928498)

just go down to best buy and get a few linksys wifi routers and enable corporate wide wifi....

Re:Very True (1)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928522)

HP drIves alsO have a predictive failure warranty

This is nothing new (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37927892)

we're often asked to turn consumer-grade technology into business-grade technology with a wave of our magic wands

This is nothing new. We've been expected to do this with Microsoft Windows for nearly two decades now.

Re:This is nothing new (2)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928478)

Two letters: XP :)

Apple has jumped the shark (2, Insightful)

TheGoodNamesWereGone (1844118) | more than 2 years ago | (#37927904)

They jumped it some time ago. Itunes making you have to go through Apple to do *anything* is not just a walled garden, it's a prison. Yes, consumers might put up with that shit, but businesses won't.

Re:Apple has jumped the shark (0)

alienzed (732782) | more than 2 years ago | (#37927962)

Am I the only one who has 1000 mp3s, 10 of which were from the iTunes store in my iTunes? Am I the only one that has 700+ TV shows and 300+ movies in my iTunes, none of which were purchased through the iTunes Store? If iTunes is a prison, then it's content is cigarettes.

Re:Apple has jumped the shark (1)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928114)

Are you deliberately being obtuse? He's talking about apps.

Itunes is an application (1)

jabberw0k (62554) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928518)

Itunes is definitely an application, what is your point?

Re:Apple has jumped the shark (1)

TheGoodNamesWereGone (1844118) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928520)

"Am I the only one that has 700+ TV shows and 300+ movies in my iTunes, none of which were purchased through the iTunes Store?" I have a comparable number of movies and songs, *none* of which I had to sell my soul to get. Besides, we're talking about apps, not media content.

More Apple Hater nostalgia for days gone by (-1, Troll)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928096)

They jumped it some time ago. Itunes making you have to go through Apple to do *anything* is not just a walled garden

Silly Apple Hater, so unwilling to comprehend what is actually happening in the world!

As it turns out, you need iTunes for exactly nothing with iOS5 onward. You can activate a device without iTunes, use iCloud without iTunes, device updates happen OTA as do backups to iCloud, etc.

Poor Apple Hater! Whatever will you find to carp on now!

Re:More Apple Hater nostalgia for days gone by (0)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928356)

I'm just surprised the GP didn't include something like iOS not multitasking, as well :P

Re:Apple has jumped the shark (1)

foniksonik (573572) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928258)

Apple has had the ability to host an Enterprise AppStore for a while now. Additionally you can side load apps and if you make your own can distribute internally via the same methods.

Have you signed up for a business level license? Apple has a lot more support than you might think. Not every small business can afford it of course. It's meant for businesses with tens of hundreds of Apple product using employees.

Re:Apple has jumped the shark (3, Insightful)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928676)

Just what we need, a proprietary solution with associated license fees for every product or family of products from different vendors.

Re:Apple has jumped the shark (3, Insightful)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928270)

if you buy a $3000 Enterprise Developer license then you can publish your apps directly to your organization's idevices. Apple even has detailed instructions how to do it

Re:Apple has jumped the shark (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928628)

Wow, how much do you have to pay for an Android developer licenses to do the same thing? $100. Shocking.

Re:Apple has jumped the shark (0)

sgent (874402) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928288)

Yep....

A $100 license from apple to deploy enterprise apps w/o going through their app store is so expensive for a company looking for custom applications...

Re:Apple has jumped the shark (1)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928306)

You realize iTunes is only a central location for syncing, right?
You don't have to buy everything through the iTunes. What you're attempting to say is App Store.. a totally different monster.

You can thank Microsoft for that... (1)

webdog314 (960286) | more than 2 years ago | (#37927954)

At least from a software perspective, they have conditioned people into seeing the difference between the "home" version and the "business" version of the OS as nothing more than a license upgrade... a somewhat virtual "magic wand", if you will.

Can't say i'm suprised (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37927964)

I spends at least 10 hours a month troubleshooting iphone/ipad connectivity to various exchange servers. android seems to be less broken after every update

Re:Can't say i'm suprised (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928124)

Then your exchange servers are broken or your IT shop is clueless. iOS uses ActiveSync, which is designed to connected to Exchange servers (it's licensed from Microsoft). Of any Microsoft products, this has to be one of the easiest to configure and maintain that I've seen and that's saying a lot.

Re:Can't say i'm suprised (3, Informative)

NotSanguine (1917456) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928674)

Then your exchange servers are broken or your IT shop is clueless. iOS uses ActiveSync, which is designed to connected to Exchange servers (it's licensed from Microsoft). Of any Microsoft products, this has to be one of the easiest to configure and maintain that I've seen and that's saying a lot.

It's also completely worthless from a security standpoint. No encryption. You have to expose parts of your Exchange infrastructure to the Internet as well (Yes, you need to do that to do OWA over the Internet also). Since good security practices teach us that if you expose a system to the Internet, *eventually* you will get hacked.

Good For Exchange (GFE) at least provides on-board encryption for email/calendar/contacts, unlike ActiveSync. And you don't need to expose your servers to the Internet to provide services. Then again, GFE is crappy software.

Anyway, if you think ActiveSync is a viable solution then your corporate environment is either unconcerned or unaware of the serious security issues posed by it. Hmm...does that mean your IT people are clueless?

Re:Can't say i'm suprised (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928364)

so your exchange servers are ran by morons then? I have ZERO problems with iphones and android phones on the corperate Exhance servers. they fricking work better than the blackberry garbage.

Surprise! (1)

drb226 (1938360) | more than 2 years ago | (#37927986)

Tech company that has been targeting individual users since basically the beginning (Apple) does *not* produce software which is well-suited to all your business needs.

Also surprising, however, was that this little gem of a quote first appeared on infoworld:

The tools you provide should encourage user-driven innovation. Often, "it just works" does the exact opposite.

Not many people want you to support consumer tech (0)

Mr. McGibby (41471) | more than 2 years ago | (#37927988)

For some reason IT folks think that all us iPhone toting folks are demanding that they support my iPhone. I don't expect you to support it, and most others don't either. At a basic level, I expect my IT department to not *actively* disallow use of such technology, which is what I see all the time, departments who see no middle ground between "100% supported" and "not on my network ever". It'd be nice if you could spend a few minutes helping me to figure out how to make my email work on the thing, fixing any server related issues in the process. I don't expect you do this for every crazy piece of hardware out there, but it would nice if you could be *helpful* as I try to figure it out myself.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

hguorbray (967940) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928106)

Supporting iPhone (or iPad for that matter) for corporate email might be difficult -I do not believe that there are Notes or Outlook mail apps for these devices (although the new outlook webmail is pretty decent)

The other problem I have heard in the past is the lack of ability to provision the phones and apps in bulk instead of having to setup 100 different iTunes account for 100 devices -this is one of the things that probably gives IT departments (and procurement) nightmares.

Due to the locked down nature of the devices, customization such as a corporate device image with custom apps such as proprietary reporting tools is also probably not easy in this scenario. Security on consumer devices may also often be suspect. My company requires that laptops that travel have encrypted HDDs.

-I'm just sayin'

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928222)

Supporting iPhone (or iPad for that matter) for corporate email might be difficult -I do not believe that there are Notes or Outlook mail apps for these devices (although the new outlook webmail is pretty decent)

Wrong, at least for Outlook (or rather, Exchange). iOS supports Exchange ActiveSync natively, including required pin locks and remote wipe. Of course as an end user those things are annoying, so there are plenty of jailbreak patches that remove the pin lock requirement (or rather, cache your pin so that it's only required after a reboot). I have no idea what level of Notes support is available on iOS, but seriously who uses Notes anymore?

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928454)

So, what is IT's recourse if you bypass the pin and other security requirements?

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928234)

I don't know about Notes (although if you're stuck supporting that POS, you have my most profound sympathies), but iOS does have ActiveSync support, so getting mail from your Exchange server is quite possible.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

Mullen (14656) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928304)

As the guy in IT, let me ask this:

Why do I have to support your purchase? I don't get input into buying it, why should IT have to support it? How do I control your phone? How do I know you have a good password to lock it or even do you lock it? How do I remote wipe the phone if it gets stolen or you leave the company? How do I know it is encrypted? Does it even have encryption? How do I control what goes on the phone? How do I block certain apps on the phone? How do I keep the phone from talking to other devices that IT does not own nor support?

The list goes on and on. It's not about you buying something, it's about control, protecting company property and keeping out people we don't want in our networks.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (2, Informative)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928420)

Why do I have to support your purchase?

You're asking why you have to do your job?

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928540)

From another IT guy, I have to say that people get indignant when we tell them that we don't support personally owned devices. Why should I support something you bought for yourself? Personal means that YOU bought it with YOUR money, not work money. Go find yourself a tech person that YOU pay to troubleshoot your problems. Don't ask me to fix YOUR PERSONAL device on company time.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (2)

hguorbray (967940) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928550)

not exactly...

What if there are security or protocol requirements for accessing my network or my apps that your phone does not support or are easily bypassed on it? How can I support that?

What if your phone requires some hotspot technology that I do not have?

Blackberry was able to get away with this by having enterprise level security and good outlook integration -Android and iPhone -probably not.

IT depts sign off on things that they know will work with existing infrastructure or with the expectation that there will be budget to add the necessary pieces -this bypasses that process and puts IT in a difficult position -esp when some exec decides they want to use their latest toy....

I'm just sayin'

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

richlv (778496) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928576)

i would think his management would object to somebody classifying his job as supporting random devices people buy. and no, he's not a free tech support for any crap product you decide to bring in.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928578)

If you came into my office with that attitude, I would tell you fuck off and also make sure your shitty device NEVER touches my network. You piece of shit device gets onto the corporate network strictly on the terms the company sets and I enforce it. If you dont like it, fuck off.

Now answer the GP's questions

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928590)

Why do I have to support your purchase?

You're asking why you have to do your job?

Sorry, but how is supporting your personal mobile phone, a job for your company's IT department?

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

sapgau (413511) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928636)

ummm... you might want to read the parent's post again

You don't already know the answer? (3, Insightful)

realxmp (518717) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928612)

Assuming we're going with the GP post's question RE an iPhone my answers to your questions would be as follows:

1. The Managing Director bought it because he got annoyed about the blackberry outage.
2. Sadly the Managing Director controls your budget, ergo he says what you do and don't support.
3. It's an iPhone, it supports ActiveSync and provisioning profiles but you should know this already, given you read slashdot.
4. Because you set the policy on the exchange server to require good passwords on all devices connecting via ActiveSync. If you don't know this you really shouldn't be administrating an exchange server.
5. See point 3.
6. You know it's encrypted because you googled iPhones and know that the any iPhone 3GS or above has encrypted memory. Thus why wiping is so quick, it just deletes the encryption key.
7. See answer 6.
8. See answer 3. Provisioning profiles.
9. See answer 3. Provisioning profiles.
10. Private VLAN it and employ port and wireless isolation.

You've not given any questions here that you should even be asking users apart from questions 1 and 2 which are legit questions. The rest are stuff where you do the research and tell them the answer.

Re:You don't already know the answer? (1)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928702)

And when the user has jailbroken their iphone to bypass the pin entry, what do you recommend the solution be?

Can you prevent or even detect a jailbroken phone?

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928338)

not difficult at all, iphone supports exchange perfectly.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928386)

ActiveSync... that's all you'll need to worry about.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (5, Informative)

dissy (172727) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928492)

iPhones fully support exchange activesync, with remote wipe and everything.

In the mail settings, you add an account, and tap the first mail type in the list "Exchange"
Feed it your email address, then password. Done.

It uses the encrypted outlook web api (Same as the web app in a browser would over https) so works on the internal wifi as well as outside on 3G.

Employees are warned about the remote wipe feature, both in the employee handbook and directly when I'm asked if they can get their mail on their phone.
Users can even log in to web mail and perform the remote wipe and remote password reset features on their own, including from home, and most importantly whenever they need it.

Otherwise it has been one of the more simple non-windows devices I've had to support on a windows network.
I come from a Linux/Mac background as well, which doesn't translate the best to running a windows domain. I'm the reverse equivlant of the ditsy windows admin installing x11 and gnome on all the servers so he can remote admin them :P
The less I have to do to dig deeper into the windows world, the better.

Most android devices are basically as easy, but usually also ask for a username instead of extracting it from the email address for the first try.
Only two people with android ever had mail problems, both solved by removing and re-adding the mail server entry.

I'm just thankful the CEO is no longer using that blackberry... BES was hell!

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

nhaines (622289) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928146)

I don't expect you to support it, and most others don't either.... It'd be nice if you could spend a few minutes helping me to figure out how to make my email work on the thing, fixing any server related issues in the process.

This is the definition of support.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928410)

Not to the support folk.

Mod parent up! (4, Insightful)

khasim (1285) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928414)

The GP has no idea what "support" means.

I don't expect you do this for every crazy piece of hardware out there, but it would nice if you could be *helpful* as I try to figure it out myself.

The PROBLEM is that every single person out there has the same attitude towards "support" that you do.

With you it is your iPhone.
With someone else it is something else.
A third person has a third product.
And pretty soon it is "every crazy piece of hardware" (and software and website and so forth).

At a basic level, I expect my IT department to not *actively* disallow use of such technology, which is what I see all the time, departments who see no middle ground between "100% supported" and "not on my network ever".

The problem is that if IT provides 50% support for X ... there will be calls from people wanting help with something that falls on the other 50% of X. Eventually it is 100% support.

If you want that to change, then get a business case together and get management's approval and IT will get the additional funding / staffing / whatever to provide the support.

Otherwise, deal with it. IT is there to support the management approved users on the management approved software with the management approved hardware.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928154)

I don't expect you to support it, and most others don't either... It'd be nice if you could spend a few minutes helping me to figure out how to make my email work on the thing, fixing any server related issues in the process. I don't expect you do this for every crazy piece of hardware out there, but it would nice if you could be *helpful* as I try to figure it out myself.

"I don't want you to support my tech, but please support my tech"?

The moment I give an end-user any sort of advice about any technology, I own the support. You may be an exception to the rule, but it is the rule.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928452)

If you own it by simply informing someone of data, you're not handling it right. I've helped lots of people with different tools and made them know beforehand that I am doing this completely off-channel and this is totally unsupported, letting them know it's because I like them and want them to keep doing the work they do that I'm helping with what I can.

Usually, it's the stuff that they are blind to behind the scenes such as firewalls, server configurations, or just not knowing certain piece of information needed to configure the device like the imap server/etc/etc.
I personally physically despise people that work in the black-and-white narrow passages method. It sickens me.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928734)

in my experience end users generally only know what they need to do get the task done. They have very little troubleshooting experience or expertise. You may have made them aware there is a firewall, but once you help them they will keep coming back to you whenever there is an issue and often assume it has to do with the "firewall" or the "router" when it could be something completely unrelated.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928198)

It'd be nice if you could spend a few minutes helping me to figure out how to make my email work on the thing, fixing any server related issues in the process.

This help you are asking for is called "support".

I don't expect you do this for every crazy piece of hardware out there, but it would nice if you could be *helpful* as I try to figure it out myself.

This is called "I know that there are rules and reasons, but I'm special, dammit!

-devphaeton

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928294)

"For some reason IT folks think that all us iPhone toting folks are demanding that they support my iPhone. I don't expect you to support it, and most others don't either"

OK, you're not demanding support ... good.

"It'd be nice if you could spend a few minutes helping me to figure out how to make my email work on the thing"

Hmm, that kind of sounds like you want support actually. Make up your mind!

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (4, Insightful)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928296)

departments who see no middle ground between "100% supported" and "not on my network ever".

Because there is no middle ground.
If we help you out of the kindness of our hearts once, you will never. ever. let us forget that.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

starfishsystems (834319) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928588)

User support is an important issue, but the least of the issues that IT faces.

Agreed, there is no middle ground between "100% supported" and "not on my network ever". That's because putting a foreign device on a corporate network is not putting it "a little bit" on the network. We have no control over the device, no idea what it might do.

Now, there are ways to safely support foreign devices, by sequestering them onto a dedicated network for example, which also necessitates effective practices for locking them out of the standard network. But that takes a degree of care in policy, design, and implementation for which many organizations are simply not resourced. So good organizations say "no". Mediocre organizations say "whatever". Guess which ones get hacked more often? Guess who's in trouble when that happens?

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (3, Funny)

sjames (1099) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928330)

For some reason IT folks think that all us iPhone toting folks are demanding that they support my iPhone.

It'd be nice if you could spend a few minutes helping me to figure out how to make my email work on the thing, fixing any server related issues in the process.

But not like support support it, just help solve any problems with it.

THAT is why so many IT departments have an all or nothing policy. They know what the road to hell looks like.

I don't expect you do this for every crazy piece of hardware out there...

Just the ones that *I* like.

You'll get a lot further if you appear to mean it when you say you'll support yourself if they'll just not actively ban the device.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928344)

Er...why? Yes, I'm totally serious with the question. I get you want business function, utility, help from "IT". But... that's not only not part of our job, but *not* doing it is is often part of our job. And when at an organization where such...process is not an active part of our job, that mere question often indicates you shouldn't be helped anyway.

At a large, managed organization, your mere question likely indicates a lack of:
    a) knowledge of policy
    b) respect of policy
    c) desire to comply with policy
    d) basic competence or understanding of the task you're requesting.

In a small, unmanaged organization, or many places that SAS it out to Google or third party providers... well...
It's email....
    1) It's not rocket science. If you were competent enough to not be wasting a high school kid's time, you would have figured it out
    2) See item #1.
    3) If for some reason you can't look in outlook/thunderbird/whatever to figure out #1, that means I've locked your desktop down specially. This means you're a problem user, and I hate you. If you're the reason I have to implement a group policy for a small business, the only time you're getting help is when it's an actual problem, or your boss asks me to fix it.

If you don't know what the SMTP server is, whether it authenticates in plain or hash or whatever...whether you use POP3 or IMAP... That's fine. Check the outlook settings. If you don't look to do that, or can't translate back and forth with a quick read of wikipedia...then you aren't competent enough to configure a device or use it safely on the network without babysitting. In fact, the mere question makes you a candidate to have your desktop locked down further and schedule an extra scan or one of the newer licensed versions of the antivirus if my organization can afford it. Because chances are *YOU* are the guy that has limewire on the desktop, or downloaded a cracked version of office 2003 because you didn't like 2007/2010.

Now, if the network is *already* locked down, and you don't know how to get the iphone to sign the email with the PKCS12 certificate, and authenticate to the server using the domain key... Well, allright... we can talk.

And you know, maybe it's possible that we don't want the iphone on the network. At all. Ever. Period. Maybe that's because we know that apple configured the iphone to lie about its capabilities to the exchange server in order to gain access, and we have determined that is absolutely a liability if it ever touches that confidential email in our industry.

Now, I'll admit... you're on /. there's...a chance...you're actually competent. Please make a request to IT indicating what type of help you need. In between the budget and staff cuts of the past decade, the hundreds of hours we're spending rewriting and updating existing documentation, outsourcing hardware maintenance, consolidating costs in the cloud, and justifying our existence to some C level goon (who probably has a different appliance than you that he absolutely *MUST* get on the network and will require implementing HIPPA breaching exceptions that will than have to be carefully documented, updated and cause a cascade of rewrites). Maybe somebody will already have your device and give you a hand.

Yes, I'm *that* IT guy. I don't help users because users cause problems. Project Managers bring requirements that are met.

Come on, mod me troll for thinking it's ridiculous that you can't set up email on a basic device without "IT folks" as a babysitter.

Sorry but that right there is the problem (5, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928366)

You want to run the thing, you want it to be yours, but you want someone to bail you out if you can't make it work. That is the nightmare IT scenario. That is the one that sucks tons of time from the group: When users want to run their own devices in their own way, but want IT to fix it when there's a problem.

Now I should say such a situation would be feasible, but only if you are willing to hire a bunch more IT people. Have a large enough group and sure, you can have people to do all the hand holding as well as all the all the central functions expected (like making network and all the servers work, developing new custom apps, and so on). However in a typical IT environment where there are not many support people, hand holding takes time away from other tasks.

Basically if you want to use your toys that's fine, but don't expect IT to want to waste time on them. They are your devices, you deal with them.

In terms of the "not on my network" I don't usually support that idea but there are cases where it makes sense. Security is a concern with companies and if the management decides they want only approved devices on the network, well then that is what IT has to enforce. There are reasons for that too: User devices are the biggest source of problems easily. I work at a university and we do allow for personal laptops and other things on the network. 99.9% of the time when there's a virus or other issue, it is from one of them. Of course they bypass one of the layers of our security, our border firewall, since they come inside the network, which makes them a bit more dangerous.

To me wanting IT to support your personal devices is the same as wanting the motor pool to work on your personal car. It just isn't reasonable. Your stuff is yours to do with as you wish, but don't expect corporate support to help you out. They have other things on their plate.

Re:Sorry but that right there is the problem (1)

Ayanami_R (1725178) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928616)

I work for a school system and we have an all or nothing policy when it comes to the network, Why? People bring in their own wireless routers, they don't change the default password, and leave dhcp on. Eventually, people get 192.168.x.x addresses, instead of 10.x.x.x, this cuts them out from internet access. Then we get 15 tickets in the same building over 1 router. It gets better, then I have to find it, easy enough with my phone or tablet with a wifi finder app, but then I have to explain to the user why they can't have it. All of you here know how that goes so I'll spare you. After all that, then I have to physically go to all 15 users and reset their connections, because our helpdesk is useless and dameware never seems to work. Wasted productivity? You betcha. I have recently come up with a way to better convince people to leave their shit at home. I break into their unsecured router, with no wireless password, and set one. or if they have files shared I access those and copy them to a USB stick, and then delete the original files. After showing the user all the things I was able to do in about 2 minutes, they usually don't complain. This one lady though was a real pain, I told her, politely, why we can't allow these things about 5 times, she would take it back home for a week or so and cause the mess in the 1st paragraph after about 2 or so weeks again. I went to my boss, the principal, you name it and this woman refused to stop it. One day, after the 50th ticket caused by her, I had had enough. I got into the router and flashed the wrong firmware to it, bricking it. She hasn't done it since.

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928438)

of course, security doesn't even enter your mind.

It may seem trivial to you, but can you guarantee that if you lose your phone someone won't be able to unlock it and use the attached services that you have hooked into? You haven't bypassed the exchange pin requirements somehow?

Can you guarantee your device does not contain malware of some kind?

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (1)

cat5 (166434) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928634)

Sure, I'll help you by also enabling a controlled password lock, and you will allow me to remote wipe your device when you get laid off. I've no problem supporting you, but it the process and procedures and protocols are in place to mitigate data loss, sorry - your not getting WORK email on your iDevice unless it's company supported, and I put *IT* control on it. Fair?

Re:Not many people want you to support consumer te (2)

NotSanguine (1917456) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928718)

For some reason IT folks think that all us iPhone toting folks are demanding that they support my iPhone. I don't expect you to support it, and most others don't either. At a basic level, I expect my IT department to not *actively* disallow use of such technology, which is what I see all the time, departments who see no middle ground between "100% supported" and "not on my network ever". It'd be nice if you could spend a few minutes helping me to figure out how to make my email work on the thing, fixing any server related issues in the process. I don't expect you do this for every crazy piece of hardware out there, but it would nice if you could be *helpful* as I try to figure it out myself.

I hate to break it to you, but whenever you allow something on your network, users will, from that moment on assume that you take full responsibility for their equipment. I've seen it many times. It happens on my network on a regular basis. Even if you don't demand supportability for *all* devices, company owned or not, from your IT people, a large contingent of users do just that. At most companies, as soon as IT says, "okay, you can use 'X'" IT is forever responsible for making it work. period.

Bob Lewis: a Microsoft Property (1)

afabbro (33948) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928002)

Article summary: Apple is a nightmare, Google is maybe passable, but Microsoft is where you want to be.

If you're running an enterprise and want to maximize user capabilities, you'll find the best collection of core technologies in Microcountry.

In other news, InfoWorld is still published.

Consumer Innovation (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928014)

Lest we forget, the PC revolution in business was brought about by CONSUMER "Personal Computers" being brought into businesses to get around the walled garden of Corporate IT (Mainframes back in the day).

Today, it is iPads replacing Notebooks and Laptops, and Androids and iPhones replacing Blackberries and Palms (back in the day). IT should identify the need, and start ordering Commercial Versions of these products. Too bad they aren't so there isn't much choice.

If Google REALLY wanted to rule the world, they'd put together a Corporate Server solution to manage Corporate Android Devices and market the crap out of it in Professional IT magazines and in places where the CIO spends time. I realize that Google does have some semblance of this out there, but it is hardly Corporate Grade, nor is it marketed to the CIO/CEO as a "must have" for IT.

This is where Microsoft is losing the battle, trying to stay a "Windows Company".

Re:Consumer Innovation (1)

deniable (76198) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928118)

IT should identify the need, and start ordering Commercial Versions of these products. Too bad they aren't so there isn't much choice.

If they build it, we will come. If we'd had any decent alternative to the iPad as a 'document reader / viewer' (yeah right) we would have been able to stop management from buying a bunch of shiny toys.

Re:Consumer Innovation (1)

DJRumpy (1345787) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928242)

We're taking a separate tack and just embracing the consumer iOS devices (Android doesn't meet ISS requirements for closing security issues when relying on handset vendor updates).

Put a policy in place to require a minimum version to keep the IS Security folks happy, publish documentation to allow easy configuration for end users (ActiveSync is about as simple as it gets, especially with a word doc or something similar to guide them), and be prepared to manage end users calls in case of issues, or when you need to cut off a device for failing to maintain the minimum level required.

We implemented this over a year ago and it has been a great success with nearly a thousand of these devices connected and no major issues. About the only manual element is forcing end user upgrades which as upgrades go, are pretty painless. We notify them to upgrade, give them an end date to comply, send a final warning if they haven't, and cut them off if they continue to stay on an unsupported version.

As to the article's issues with contacts in the cloud, he should probably read the warnings when enabling sync (specifically the comments regarding 'merge' or 'keep' when referring to the local contacts or calendar. It's not rocket science. 'Keep' will keep a local copy, and merge will just merge everything in the cloud.

For those that have two calendars or sets of contacts and you want only one, turn off cloud sync, when prompted, delete your local contacts or calendar, then turn sync back on. It will then just start using only the cloud for contacts/calendars.

ActiveSync calendars/contacts are not synced, which is desirable for us from a security perspective.

Re:Consumer Innovation (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928416)

Not everything on my phone is tied to Exchange. I can't manage the entire device (applications/data).

That, and you missed my point. We are seeing the next evolution in IT, being driven by Consumer Products because IT is too slow moving.

Re:Consumer Innovation (1)

DJRumpy (1345787) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928460)

Actually you can go so far as to lock down application installs via polices. We've implemented some basic ones to require pass codes, and auto-locks, but you can go further with the tools available.

I agree with your point regarding IT moving too slow. I think the recent advent of smart devices (computers in your pocket) has taken IT in general by surprise and many are still trying to cope with end user demands and coming out bruised and battered.

Re:Consumer Innovation (4, Insightful)

starfishsystems (834319) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928688)

No, it began with businesses buying and managing Unix workstations for their staff.

Where it started to fall apart was when businesses thought it would be cheaper to buy Microsoft systems instead. There was a little TCO problem there. Microsoft users were managing their own systems, and they were doing it badly. Not only was their actual job function was being diluted, it also created some truly monstrous infrastructure train wrecks. That problem still isn't solved. Businesses simply think it's normal.

ironic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928028)

I just got asked by a developer today....why can't he VPN into Microsoft Team Foundation Server from his new phone???

Re:ironic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928080)

Must be an android user, iPhones have a VPN client built in.

Re:ironic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928548)

I don't think the lack of VPN on the device was the dev's problem. It's that he's a moron. It sounds like he doesn't understand what VPN is or what Team Foundation Server is. I'm sure he just wants to do some intense coding on his phones soft keyboard.

Thanks for your attempt to flame Android, but it also has built-in VPN as well as numerous third-party VPN clients.

Root cause: Clueless top executives. (2, Insightful)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928056)

A decade ago most clueless top executives will award themselves the latest and greatest laptops and start belting out the latest version of documents/spreadsheets/presentations that is incompatible with rest of the corporations. Forcing everyone to upgrade, and Microsoft was laughing all the way to the bank.

Now the same clueless top exec buys latest and greatest toys to play angry birds or something and expects it to work in the corporate environment. All the deliberate incompatibilities and interoperability poison pills baked into the system is coming back to bite the tails of IT crews.

Well There's Your Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928060)

IT doesn't have anything that even resembles a methodology for performing the business analysis we need to figure out what it means to put consumer tech to productive day-to-day use

Well there's a major part of the problem. You're full of business babble and the end user/consumer doesn't know what you are talking about. Hell I don't know what you are talking about and I am heavily steeped in IT. It gives me a deep seated suspicion that you don't know what you are taking about either, so you might imagine what the end user is thinking.

The problem is simple and the end user is not half as stupid as you assume. Simply explain to them that the consumer tech is designed with a single user model in mind where as the corporation's IT systems are designed with the entire corporation's users in mind. Simply put there is no safe way to share the corporations data with ONLY the corporation's user base when using the consumer tech. This will change over time, but until it does, the consumer tech will not be suitable for corporate use and attempting to force its use or circumvent the policy will be disruptive and potentially dangerous to the company.

Re:Well There's Your Problem (2)

foniksonik (573572) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928484)

This is BS. Webmail, FTP, USB drives, etc etc. All of these are allowed (maybe not by choice) technologies essential for business. They are easy for non-tech to use, so they get used. They are all much bigger vectors for intrusion than an iPhone.

This is getting out of hand (3, Insightful)

gregthebunny (1502041) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928082)

I do IT support for a company of about 800-1000 people. All of our executives and corporate staff wanna use their goddammed iPads, iPhones, Androids, and other personal wotsits or doo-dads to do their work. Enough is a-freakin-nuff! We're a corporation and we need to maintain stability and compatibility over fancy and chic. You get a laptop. With Windows. And a BlackBerry... if you're lucky. Oh, and don't get me wrong... it's not like I'm being elitist or something. I love these consumer devices for home use. I have all sorts of digital toys. But they belong AT HOME!

Re:This is getting out of hand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928318)

All of our executives

Shut up and get the iPads working. Or you're fired.

Re:This is getting out of hand (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928436)

Shut up and get the iPads working for me and nobody else . Or you're fired.

FTFY

Re:This is getting out of hand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928332)

Great. A laptop and a dumbphone that will sit in the corner and never get turned on.

Way to go.

Re:This is getting out of hand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928350)

In my experience, once a CXO wants it you have to provide it or they will find someone else willing to fulfill those types of business requests. It’s not a good idea to tell the CFO that you won’t provide all those financial reports on his iPad because you dont think it’s important.

Re:This is getting out of hand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928572)

Doing your damn job that you're paid to do is a bitch huh? If the exec wants you to support his iPad you do it. If he wants you to support his in car gps you do it. If you don't want to then good luck finding a job in support where you don't have to

I find there are two paths that emerge (5, Informative)

nimbius (983462) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928092)

for the IT department here.
1. lock it all down:
ive worked for companies that insist IT is the gatekeeper for everything from remote controls to pagers and cellphones. While you get great control, you also have no time or resources to dedicate to projects and ostensibly everything with a wall wart becomes "your job." Powerusers view you as some sort of hitler-incarnate so you wont get help or input from them at all.

2. trust your users:
im working at a company that embraces google apps, that trusts its users in the cloud, that appreciates anything that frees up resources so that projects can be accomplished and new achievements in the organization can be made. the downside to this is your IT support is often branded as a group of do-nothings as IT can really only help people with approved technologies. IT guys find themselves in elevators and hallways, cornered by desperate users who swear the problem theyre having in the cloud is something your IT department works on. If the bitching gets loud enough, you may end up supporting it anyhow, and that subset of 8 systems your team used to directly assist users begins to look like 'infinity.' you really need strong management for this type of environment to work. ready and open paths for users who bite off more than they can chew to safely make their way back to known desktop technologies is also a big plus. You can in some cases leverage power users to evangelize people in certain directions or help out where possible. Wiki's work wonders.

Again... (4, Funny)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928274)

Oh, stop your whining and do your job.

Don't go complaining to management when they want you to do something on the cheap. They're the job creators and you're nothing but a griping parasite. They could eat your job and shit it out in Bangalore before you can say "MSCE".

If you don't like the way business is done then go stand with the filthy stinking hippies in Occupy Wall Street. Otherwise, when we say "jump" you say "Minimum wage is good enough for me".

Who do you think you are, anyway? We're the motherfucking job creators Bucky, so you better check yourself and get back to your little hole and do some coding or sysadmin-ing or whatever it is you do. There's a reason I'm getting the big bucks and you're getting the increased co-pays and that reason is "I know what's what and you know jack shit."

Now close the door on the way out. I'm glad we had this little talk. And if I hear that you even whispered the word "union" I'm going to put my size 11 cordovan brogue ($370 at Nordstroms) up your bony ass.

Re:Again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928642)

Good, then let some shithead named Peggy from Bangalore support your freakin I-Pad. And as for "whatever it is that we do?" What we do is why you fucking panic when the only IT guy goes on vacation (if you care to call it that cuz were on the phone the whole freaking time supporting your dumb asses). I say to anyone who has that attitude to screw themselves silly thinking that they are all that and if we are such parasites and a "Cost Center" try and do without us. Might as well since you lay us all off anyway.

Mostly because... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928298)

CIO's CTO's and IT and tech managers are idiots that do not know their jobs.

You buy Enterprise Drives for a Raid 50, not freaking WD green drives on sale. and no a linksys router will NOT work for the sales office across town. but then I get headhunted regularly because of my rep and skill-set, so I can tell a manager that he is a "moron" for even thinking of using consumer grade. Getting fired is not a fear I have.

Yeah, count me in (2)

jds91md (2439128) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928418)

I'm a doctor. We use Motion LE1700 tablet PC's running Windows XP SP2 (no joke) for our EMR (electronic medical record). I saw a physician colleague running our EMR on his iPad2 and thought "wow". At first I didn't care. Then I thought of two ways that I could really take advantage of running EMR on my iPad2. So I asked our IT dept. They've always said, "we are happy to help you connect to the EMR on your home computer", but now I learn that they meant Wintel or Mac home PC, not iPad. I really have NO idea what you folks mean when you talk about some dividing line between "consumer tech" and "business tech". So go ahead, brow-beat-up the new guy, explain it to me! -- Josh PS FWIW, same organization has custom written an iOS app and given free iPod Touches to physicians to access hospital patient care data, so it's not like the organization does not realize the opportunities in leveraging personal "consumer" tech for business purposes.

Nobody every got fired buying IBM (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928442)

This was pretty much the argument used IBM 25 years ago to keep cheap commodity PCs out of the enterprise. MS used it to keep Macs out of the office even though Macs were more solidly built than the crap many offices used to run MS software. Yet commodity PCs took over the office, and Macs were integrated by the IT staff of the time.

Now, I will entertain the idea that modern IT people are not nearly as cleaver as 20 years ago. I mean, what do you need to know now a days, how to plug in a cable, randomly check GUI boxes, and say "Have you turned the computer off and on"? But then given the level of standards and integration between all equipment that exists, I can't really imagine that such support should be beyond the budgets and ability of even the most unqualified IT department.

Engineer Here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928466)

OK... here's some perspective from the other side of the fence.

I'm an electrical engineer at a fairly large company. The way I see it, IT exists to support the other departments. Now, there's a lot involved in that, and I recognize that keeping it secure and reliable is a big and oft-unappreciated part of their job. If the "business grade" stuff isn't cutting it and an engineer can justify that something else makes his or job faster or easier, then there's a damned good reason to listen. Now, some requests are completely unjustified and maybe those should get denied. Most of the time, things hint at a bigger problem though. When somebody complains or comes up with a consumer tech that's better, what's the real problem? Assume something mundane like a request for an external drive. Does this mean network access is unacceptably slow? Is the local storage insufficient? Is this engineer the asshole that's dumping 200 GB of simulation data a day and bringing your network to its knees? If you don't want to support the external drive, maybe there's something else you can do. The list could go on and on and on.

If you get a request to support consumer tech, figure out why it's wanted and work from there.

IT Challenge, not Nightmare (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928480)

This has been the IT Challenge since VisiCalc sold Apple ][s.

If you want to have a bitch session about it, I'm not entirely without sympathy. Just don't let it blind you from forming real strategies to meet the challenge.

Maybe I got lucky. I got to watch our Burroughs mainframe high priests do nothing but bitch while the workers gave up on them and bought and tended their own DOS boxes. In a very few years those priests were gone. It was a sharp lesson. You've got to deliver what your internal clients want, or you're history.

Focus your efforts... (1)

DeathSquid (937219) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928592)

IT support works best when they maintain core systems adhering to open standards. That way they can supply mainstream users with standard devices/environments, while still allowing sophisticated users to connect and get their work done. Part of the deal can be that sophisticated users provide their own support for their environments.

For example, while secretaries may be best served by running Windows, it often makes good business sense for dev teams to work on their target environment. A good dev team won't have any problem supporting themselves so long as the infrastructure is solid.

A special class of user is the early adopter. Befriend these people because they are investing time in experimenting with new tech, some of which will become mainstream (and some of which is passing fad). So long as you insist on them supporting their own crazy experiments, their efforts are a net win. For instance, early adopters seem to have worked out that iPads will be the mainstream winner out of the tablet field. That's a whole lot of research and evaluation that IT doesn't have to do.

What about security? I think this is often used as an excuse for trying to (quixotically) maintain some kind of status quo. Of course security is important. Appropriate policies should be enforce by core systems, with the assumption that pretty much all mobile devices are insecure. For instance, there's usually no need for a lawyer's iPad to access the central source code repository, and this is trivial to enforce without descending into a subjective argument about which mobile devices are less secure. They all suck.

The big picture is that the way we live and work is changing. People carry lots of powerful mobile devices, and work and leisure are ever more intertwined. Good IT people will work out a way to support their customers. The rest will go the way of the mainframe operator.

How it actually tends to go down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928610)

How it actually tends to go down:

IT Guy: "Errrr you can bring that consumer toy (iPhone) into my environment... they don't work with corporate e-mail."

Senior Executive: "So what your telling me is that your skill sets are outdated and I should consider replacing you with someone that is more in tune with more modern technologies and able to make this work."

IT Guy: "Ummmmm....."

Senior Executive: "Yeah, that's what I thought. I'll bring my iPhone down tomorrow morning. I trust you'll be happy to setup our Exchange server on my phone so I can stop carrying around two devices."

IT Guy: "OK". (walks away... tail between legs)

business grade (1)

aahpandasrun (948239) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928620)

"Business Grade" = Locked down windows xp system featuring a "managed" internet explorer suite

IT is not fast food (1)

NetNinja (469346) | more than 2 years ago | (#37928654)

Here is the problem with some businesses. They treat IT like it's fast food. There is also a certain race of people (I have worked for 2 companies and they think the same thing, I am trying to leave the one I am with now) who think they can run business systems until the wheels fall off and then pin the hopes on their IT professional who has everything in his head and nothing written down except IP addresses. I managed to walk into a ball of bailing wire and a 1 and half hour pass down of 4 years of knowledge. Awesome!

They overwork their IT person with wearing all hats and then they wonder why he left. He is lucky if he can take long weekend vacation without someone calling him or something failing Sunday morning at 3:00am. 2 week vacation? Out of the question!

I work for a living, not live to work and to carry my laptop with me 24x7 is indicative that they don't or won't hire additional IT support or their systems are held together with duct tape and glue.

As I walked in the door the former desktop support guy is building an off the shelf server with an ASUS motherboard that probably has had it's last run of 5k of them manufactured. I sure hope I am out of there when that thing fails because the chances to getting that same motherboard is nill to none.

Running a company on off the shelf components is dangerous and stupid and if you work for a company who does that sort of thing then you should prepare to walk.

Having current support contracts on all your gear is super important, its' cheap insurance and well worth the price you pay for it.

Re:IT is not fast food (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37928706)

Amen brother!
The truth of the matter is, Management will squeeze until you get blood out of a turnip. You have to draw a line in the sand because when the walls come crashing down it's going to be the IT folks that take the fall when they can't bring that one off shit back up. And don't forget SOX, ISO, TS, and all that other crap that says we supposedly walk such a tight line when it's all really just BS. And when the shit hits the fan we take the fall. If they fire you than so be it, you needed to walk anyway. Easier said than done I know, but if your gonna talk the talk, you better be ready to walk the walk.

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