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Music Industry Pushing For BT To Block Pirate Bay

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the dear-sirs-it's-about-these-pirates dept.

Piracy 175

First time accepted submitter mariocki writes "British music industry body BPI has requested BT block access to Pirate Bay. In response, BT say they will only do so if they receive a court order. But after BT recently lost a court case forcing them to block Newzbin, it looks like it's a case of when — not if — this will happen."

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In other news. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956208)

Water is wet.

Alternate DNS/routing. (3, Informative)

GNULinuxGuy (2483278) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956230)

Methinks alternate DNS and routing methods are about to get a lot more popular in the UK.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956246)

Yep, freetards gotta have their freebees.

And I'm not interested in the whole 'but p2p isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement'. WE KNOW. It's still pilfering someone's hard work for free. If you don't intend on paying for it, don't use it. It's quite simple.

But we've got a generation who expect something for nothing nowadays....

Bring on the DRM I say.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956256)

Well in my case I download TV shows from the US that are like 7 weeks behind the UK. What honestly is the difference between downloading and watching it on TV a few weeks later? If it's good anyway I'll buy the season boxset.

Anyway, DRM is a massive no-no. If I can't sample something I'm not going to buy the full thing, that ranges from Music to games to TV shows. And I ain't waiting 6 bloody weeks for the UK to catch up on a TV series, anyone understand me?

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (1)

SharkLaser (2495316) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956548)

Oh my god, whole six weeks?? Your life must be horrible!

Seriously, I pirated them before because here they showed them two years later if at all. Six weeks is nothing.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956874)

Oh my god, two years?? Your life must be horrible!

Seriously, I pirated them before because here they showed them four thousand years later if at all. Two years is nothing.

(Posting from mars as your point is stupid).

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (3, Funny)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957382)

Oh my god, four thousand years?? Your life must be horrible!

Seriously, I pirated them before because here they never showed them at all because it would take an infinite amount of time for them to reach us. Four thousand years is nothing.

(Posting from the event horizon of a black hole)

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (2)

TAZ6416 (584004) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956274)

Apparently they'll be using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanfeed_(content_blocking_system) [wikipedia.org] so alternative DNS won't work.

However, using TOR, third party VPN or what I plan to do, use my phone's 3G tethering to get a torrent file then switch back to BT once I have it should all work fine I imagine.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956320)

If you have an android phone, uTorrent remote is a good app. You can download torrent files, open them with remote and BAM, it's downloading on your PC :)

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956332)

Apparently they'll be using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanfeed_(content_blocking_system) [wikipedia.org] so alternative DNS won't work.

Aye, that is an IP-address based filtering system combined with URL blacklist. Oh well, it's not like it's difficult to bypass anyways, but it will surely hinder the less-technical audience quite a lot. And that is the industry's whole point: they want the teenagers to stop downloading music and videos from PB, they don't really care about us geeks. Teenagers to something around 20 years old people are often impatient enough and feel strongly enough about things they like that they'll be much more likely to just run out and buy their fix if they can't get it online with minimal work, they won't bother researching for alternative methods.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (2)

Sparx139 (1460489) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956530)

Until, you know, a geek explains how to do it to their less technical friends, who then pass it on, and then the entire thing turns into a massive joke.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956542)

Until, you know, a geek explains how to do it to their less technical friends, who then pass it on, and then the entire thing turns into a massive joke.

What do you mean, I thought it was already a massive joke. Atleast I am already laughing ;)

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (2)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957410)

No, those teenagers will just go to the guy they know to download the shit for them, and sneakernet will reemerge as the most common method of distribution once again.

I made a fair amount of money in the early days of Napster making people mix discs, and the more they clamp down, the more valuable my abilities to find almost anything online become.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (2)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957092)

Nowadays you just need the Magnet link. Bookmark it, sync bookmarks with desktop/laptop, open them all.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (5, Insightful)

justforgetme (1814588) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956278)

It's still pilfering someone's hard work for free.

I was given to understand that Beyonce is one of the "girls (who run the world)" I wasn't informed that this meant coal mining to keep the record industry going.

No, honestly? Hard work? You really have no idea how media distribution works now, do you? The record companies have a 80% margin on their product 95% of that stays with the record company and only 5% goes to the signed artist (and that is when you stroke a good deal).
So, no. You are not stealing from the artist and since the artists is the only one that could be considered working (via a proxy producer/choreographer/prman usually) You are not stealing by copying that album of the Internet.

If you want to help an artist make money go support a band on kickstarter or buy off some indie band's web shop etc. Also, that's where You usually will get good bang for Your money (limited edition vinyl + flacc downloads, etc).

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956290)

So, no. You are not stealing from the artist and since the artists is the only one that could be considered working (via a proxy producer/choreographer/prman usually)

The one who goes on stage and gets lots of money to sing a few tunes is the only one who works? What did you smoke? Seriously, the people who do the actual work in the music industry, namely the songwriters, various techies, etc. get shafted by "artists" with a sense of entitlement.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (1)

justforgetme (1814588) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957128)

You didn't read the sentence you quoted I assume. No problem, luckily for you I won't blame you for that Failure and since You are Anonymous and a coward the community will spare you the shame as well.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956292)

No, honestly? Hard work? You really have no idea how media distribution works now, do you? The record companies have a 80% margin on their product 95% of that stays with the record company and only 5% goes to the signed artist (and that is when you stroke a good deal).

I have every understanding how media distribution works. I make my own mobile software.

What you don't seem to understand is that you disagreeing with their content / distribution model still doesn't make taking it for free right.

I mean, regardless of the fact that there are plenty of people involved besides the artist in the distribution chain as it exists today (and I'm not saying today's model is a good one), shouldn't it die naturally as people use competing models? Let the market decide and all that?

The problem we have right now is that the market isn't being allowed to decide.

For that, blame the old guy / nepotism inherent in the corporate model, along with a vastly under-informed populace who (surprise surprise) just blindly get sucked off by marketing.

The one thing I do agree with in your post is supporting artists and sites you appreciate. I purchase and get original WAVs of the songs I like from beatport [beatport.com] . No DRM, best quality. That's my kind of model.

The market? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956434)

The problem we have right now is that the market isn't being allowed to decide.

The market is deciding right now. People want "convenient" and "cheap" and they're apparently not getting it in sufficient quantity to avoid copyright infringement. It's not like people go out of their way to download illegally just to spite the *AAs of the world. (Well, some do, but they're a tiny minority.)

Re:The market? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956452)

People want "convenient" and "cheap" and they're apparently not getting it in sufficient quantity to avoid copyright infringement.

This isn't the market deciding at all. It's just a bunch of freeloaders taking what they want. Meanwhile, back at RIASS they get a bunch of statistics that show people want our stuff, we just need to control it better.

If people truly wanted what you describe, they'd stop using the big media companies altogether. Which comes back to my original point - taking something because you disagree with the content or distribution model doesn't make it right.

You haven't provided a coherent argument against that. No-one does - because they can't.

Re:The market? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956584)

It's just a bunch of freeloaders taking what they want.

Copying. Continue with the attacks, though. They strengthen your arguments greatly.

people want our stuff, we just need to control it better.

That will surely stop them! Bring in more draconian policies and DRM! Customers must love the DRM because they still buy the product, right? It can't be that they decided that it isn't enough of a problem to warrant not buying the product or anything.

 

No-one does - because they can't.

"I'm 100% right and you're 100% wrong." I think that is a great way to be open-minded! Proclaim that because you don't think your opponents' arguments are good enough, that must mean that no coherent (as defined by you) argument exists at all!

Re:The market? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956690)

"I'm 100% right and you're 100% wrong." I think that is a great way to be open-minded! Proclaim that because you don't think your opponents' arguments are good enough, that must mean that no coherent (as defined by you) argument exists at all!

Fair enough, I'll drop the invective and simply pose the question:

What are the arguments favouring copying something because you disagree with the content or distribution model - in particular the contemporary copying via peer to peer technologies of various media files such as software, music and video?

I'm curious to see if you will actually try to answer it rather than weasel around and point the finger back at me.

I'll understand if you don't reply for a while, slashdot is bumping up my anonymous posting timeout too (up to 32 mins now....)

Re:The market? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956810)

What are the arguments favouring copying something because you disagree with the content or distribution model - in particular the contemporary copying via peer to peer technologies of various media files such as software, music and video?

I'm only playing the devil's advocate. Also, the argument someone uses could be just about anything. "I don't like copyright" would be one. "I don't like their distribution model" would work, too. To some, that would justify their actions. Not everyone believes in absolute rights or wrongs, so telling them that it is "not right" isn't going to do much. Most of them just don't seem to care what others think.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (2)

justforgetme (1814588) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957110)

Look we are basically on the same side here. Our difference in opinion bases on that I see natural evolution in the Internet changing how we perceive arts and such and You apparently would like the new distibution model be a much more precise and well defined platform. There is not telling which is the correct position and which is not. Therefore joining into heated debates about what is the right thing might be counter productive.

Truly you cannot judge a theory only by its theoretical assumptions, you have to put it to the test.
I pirate a lot of stuff. I also pay a monthly subscription to somafm.com, because I like the service they provide. I also support many smaller bands that I have come to know through that subscription having bought LPs digital releases and coffemugs from lots and lots of indies. I pledge to kickstarter and have so become a part of the reason why a lot of interesting projects have utilized.
Is it wrong for me to download all those blockbusters from isohunt? Maybe. The fact is that, had I to pay for them, I would have bought a new dvd set of ST:TNG because the one I own is starting to fade (bits rot apparently).

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (2)

vinehair (1937606) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956848)

However, supporting the record label by buying the discs will make it so much easier for the band to get the funding to go on tour. For the music genres filled with people with a genuine love for what they do and where performing to appreciative fans is the end game for getting into the business rather than money (most genres except the Pop Idol, celebrity obsessed half of the pop music section) this can be its own reward. You can also then further support them by going to see them live and possibly buying their band paraphernalia / crap. Not to mention that discs that sell well encourage the labels to give better contracts in the future. I'm sorry, but the only justification for pirating music is getting the material that is out of print and unobtainable. If you don't like supporting the record industry, don't give money to the bands that feel it's a worthwhile deal for them to use them to get their music heard and possibly go and play them live. There is in this day and age, after all, perfectly fine free music and it is totally possible to release music via the internet without the middle man. More power to them, but most of those bands aren't doing major tours - they probably don't want to do that, and that's just fine. You could possibly make an argument for downloading older albums that aren't going to influence the band's current day chances, but even if you're not really doing the same harm as you would by downloading a brand new album, you're still taking away the artists (small) share, the employees of the record label that do grunt work, the owners of the labels (who own the business and have a legitimate right to earn money from their business) and also from the stores that are selling the discs. It's not really justifiable in any way to say copying is right. The internet is a disruptive technology causing us to rethink the value of data, but until that is done and codified into our laws and culture properly, you should respect copyright. If you can't afford music, then you have other problems on your plate than feeling like you deserve to be entertained for free.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956294)

What a moronic & nieve view.

So all the Operating systems that distribute their DVDs & CDs via P2P is all copyright infringement is it ?
All the content distributes via P2P without such copyright is still copyright infringement is it ?
I do not pay for my operating systems or software yet i am not stealing or infringing any Licenses ever heard of the GPL Licence ? BSD License ? Creative Commons License ? or any of the other permissive non closed licenses ? NO didnt think you had either.
All the musicians who distribute their tunes and mixes etc via soundcloud and thousands of other sites are all infringing are they ?

What a first class moron twat to have such a nieve close minded opinion.

or if your trolling i will consider myself trolled........

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956336)

Reading fail. Easy to miss though, you'd need to see past your red rage of "someone's criticising illegal downloading".

So congratulations, here's some fish [cornell.edu] . Go slap yourself around the head with it dickface.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (3, Insightful)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956300)

Yep, freetards gotta have their freebees.

And I'm not interested in the whole 'but p2p isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement'. WE KNOW. It's still pilfering someone's hard work for free. If you don't intend on paying for it, don't use it. It's quite simple.

But we've got a generation who expect something for nothing nowadays....

Bring on the DRM I say.

It's not about "freebees", tbh. It's about freedom to express oneself and liability. First of all, should an ISP be liable for stuff that people put on the Internet if the content is not hosted on the ISP's equipment simply because they are providing the means for people to access the Internet? To me it seems like saying that the city should be held accountable for e.g. bank robberies, simply because they are the ones providing the roads to the bank. Secondly, should large corporations be given the right to demand the blocking of one or another website? If it was a small company or an individual this wouldn't even be considered, the only reason this is considered is because the corporations in question have deep pockets. A 10-man sweatshop would in no way or form be able to do the same even if they actually did lose 95% of their income due to piracy, but a large corporation that is still raking on money like crazy and are likely losing something around 5 percent of possible income gets to tell ISPs what to block. Do we really want a future where large corporations are given ever more privileges compared to small ones?

I atleast don't feel comfortable with such disparity in privileges and I am still unsure of what I think about holding an ISP liable for things like this. It seems to me like a huge can of worms that will sooner or later majorly screw people over.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (2)

hxnwix (652290) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956308)

Yep, freetards gotta have their freebees.... Bring on the DRM I say.

How are those boots tasting? Lick harder, I want a good polish.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (-1, Troll)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957328)

How are those boots tasting? Lick harder, I want a good polish.

Spoken like a true cube-dweller wheel-cog who has never produced anything worth stealing in his wretched little life.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (3, Funny)

hxnwix (652290) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957390)

Haha, what's that? Couldn't hear you over the sound of my money accruing. By the way, you missed a spot.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956324)

I just bought some music last week. It had no DRM whatsoever. I had already listened to the music dozens of times on Youtube. If I had checked on TPB, I'd probably have found it. The album artist asked customers to set their own price with no minimum, and I paid $10 for the album. That artist chose not to treat his paying customers as his enemies, and accordingly I joined them. Over the past year I spent some $300 on digital media, which is roughly what I can afford.

0.00 of those dollars went to cartels that view their customers as an enemy by pouring millions into developing technologies that hinder their legitimate and non-violating actions with music they paid for - millions that came out of these customers' own pockets, to further the irony.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956380)

There is no basis for property rights without intrinsic scarcity. It is wonderful that so many people can benefit from one person's music at no cost, not terrible. There is no reason why the commercial motivations of artists and entertainers, producers and marketers should be enhanced by coercive, artificial monopolies. It is a corruption of state power to do so. We don't need IP. We don't want IP. We think IP is theft. And we can do whatever the hell we want. Good luck trying to stop us. You'll need it.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956518)

So if "information wants to be free" how about this:

Everyone who downloads paid for content without paying for it posts their:

* Name
* Address
* What they're currently illegally downloading

O right, only some information wants to be free, right?

And as for this crock of shit:

It is wonderful that so many people can benefit from one person's music at no cost, not terrible.

Spoken like someone who has never created anything and had the hard work they put into it copied without their consent.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956592)

Everyone who downloads paid for content without paying for it posts their:

If they want to post it, then they can. No one is going to stop them or force them to. But I don't see how information can "want" anything.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956412)

Bring on the DRM I say.

You should work for the RIAA if you aren't already doing so. You're just as clueless as they are.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956472)

I think it's much more complicated than that. It's indeed a generation problem, but one that runs far deeper.

The core group of people who would be the customers and consumers of content have always been the group of the 14-35 year olds. And they are now the ones that could be considered the digital natives. People who had a computer their whole life and could not imagine a life without. And we're about to see the ones that aren't used to the internet as part of their life, the ones that didn't grow up in a world without it, leave that age bracket. It's not a change in behaviour, it's a change in the use of means. Because that whole copying problem has existed since the first person turned on the vinyl record and that 8track recorder at the same time, and the moment someone had two betamax video recorders and knew how to connect them. The difference is only in the technology, and the ease of use.

I'm not so convinced the generation internet is used to "something for nothing". That hasn't changed. Every 40 year old who never had a music cassette full of music copied from a record may throw the first stone. This generation has only much easier to use tools for the same thing their parents and maybe even grandparents did.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (2)

Mr Thinly Sliced (73041) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956568)

The difference is only in the technology, and the ease of use.

I'd personally go a little further - there is also the (perceived) anonymity and freely available nature of the required equipment.

* Everyone (more or less) has the necessary PC and internet connection nowadays - previously shelling out for the 8-track _and_ the record player was a larger barrier to entry and along with the required physical effort and time made the activity non-casual.

* Trading physical things vs the internet p2p model offers some perceived anonymity. It's not really the case (unless you are going the TOR or freenet route) of course. This does make people more comfortable / confident in using it.

I'm not saying it's right, just wanted to add to the reasons why this generation seem to be more invested in it than previous generations who seemingly had the same opportunities.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957396)

That wasn't so different back in the good ol' days. You'd swap records and CDs with your friends. Granted, no anonymity, but also nobody who'd care to tell on you. Also, the technology investment wasn't there. Either you had a stereo kit that included a record player and a tape station or at least one of your friends did who would let you use it. Top price, a copy of the record for him.

The main difference actually is speed of propagation and ease of access. It's today way easier to access any kind of music you might want, you're not dependent on one of your friends first getting the record or the radio playing the song. You also don't have to sit next to the radio and wait for the song to finally get played. It has simply become easier to get what you want.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37957252)

Yep, freetards gotta have their freebees.

Trolls gotta troll, I see. (I'm giving you the benefit of a doubt here. You could simply be a moron and/or an idiot. It's hard to tell.)

And I'm not interested in the whole 'but p2p isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement'. WE KNOW.

Good. Took you some time to get it, but any progress is good.

It's still pilfering someone's hard work for free.

No, it isn't. Prove that any damage is done to the actual artist, or realize that you have no case and no support for your point of view.

If you don't intend on paying for it, don't use it. It's quite simple.

Pay for what, exactly? A copy costing nothing to produce? An unnecessary middleman stealing (yes, stealing for real this time) money from the actual artist for no good reason? I download lots of stuff. I end up paying for most of it, since I happen to like it. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if I pay way more for what I first download than you pay in total, when it comes to digitally available entertainment.

The one not supporting artists is most likely you, not me, despite me being the one who download the most.

Bring on the DRM I say.

Why? DRM has never worked, doesn't work, and will never work. It cannot work. Learn about the subject and even you might come to understand why this is the case.

In fact, the only really measurable effect of DRM is as a cost, a cost leeching even more money away from the actual artists into the pockets of unnecessary middlemen.

In short: Go fuck yourself, and leave us actual fans alone, so that we can funnel money to the artists we love in order for them to make a living.

You and the likes of you aren't helping anyone but yourselves. You are nothing but leeches.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (2)

testostertwo (1203692) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956288)

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (5, Interesting)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956386)

Huh... only filters port 80? Which actually makes perfect sense - it means that BT have achieved the block by simply adding newsbin to the list of websites hosting child pornography, and so repurposed their existing child-porn filter CleanFeed. If they were doing it by a new IP block, they would have blocked all traffic to the IP rather than just port 80. Cleanfield works by redirecting only port 80 to a transparent proxy. Technically elegant - why set up a whole new filtering policy if you already have the infrastructure in place? - but in PR terms a little embarassing, as it serves to validate the claims by CleanFeed's critics that once a convenient censorship system is built, even for a purpose so widely supported as blocking child porn, it's all but inevitable that it will eventually be put to other uses that that for which it was intended.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (5, Insightful)

arkhan_jg (618674) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956704)

It was in fact the court that ordered BT to use the Cleanfeed filtering system to block the Newzbin2 domain, IP and any others they start using. This is partly because BT argued the cost of setting up and maintaining a new system to do all-port IP range blocking would be too expensive, and was an unwarranted expense to impose on them considering they're (BT) not actually doing anything illegal.

But you're entirely correct that this validates the concerns that any censorship system will eventually be expanded. Now the courts have decided Cleanfeed is suitable for trying to block sites accused of assisting copyright infringement - and will no doubt add the piratebay to the list, how long before they also agree to order BT to start blocking sites accused of promoting terrorism, racial hatred or even just accused of hosting libelous statements? UK courts have already shut down such sites that were UK hosted, now they've a mechanism for doing so for foreign hosted sites.

That it doesn't block ports outside of 80 - including https! - means it's an entirely worthless exercise for the technically savvy, but the same doesn't hold true once political blogs or forums that the less savvy might read start getting blocked.

(Note for the non-UK residents - BT internet are the biggest consumer ISP, with about 1/4 of all internet users in the UK. BT also runs the copper telephone line infrastructure, and has the vast majority of POTS customers. A number of other ISPs resell BT internet access, and some of them also subscribe to Cleanfeed, the child-porn filter. Virgin and TalkTalk, the next two biggest ISPs have also been involved in the court cases, but have not - yet - been ordered to block newzbin 2)

Re:any censorship system will be expanded (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956910)

First Pastor Niemoller warned us, but we forgot about him. Then the nerds warned us, but we called them Tin Foil Hats. Then when they come for your favorite site there will be no recourse left.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (1)

Joe Jay Bee (1151309) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956694)

No, BT's [virginmedia.co.uk] range [tiscali.co.uk] of [orange.co.uk] competing [o2.co.uk] ISPs [talktalk.co.uk] will get a lot more popular. Virtually everyone who can get BT can get one of those and be switched over to them in two weeks (just switched to O2 from BT, best move I ever made - BT are retards).

I'm no particular fan of TPB, I think they're a bunch of dicks, but for christ's sake blocking access is not the answer for the British record industry. Legal downloads, although markedly less profitable, are still something of a money-spinner for them, and given some of the shite [youtube.com] that has reached No.1 recently they must be selling something...

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956750)

This is a troll right? You must realise that tiscali and talktalk are one and the same? Just follow the links you provided and see for yourself.

As for switching from BT to O2 - you must also know that O2 is a re-branding of BT CellNet - the Mobile Division?

For most of the UK there's 3 choices, and they all suck. Sure we can stick to the small companies that use BT lines and avoid some problems, but not shit like this. If you live in some of the larger English cities there are real alternatives for Internet that have built their own networks - but if not then tough luck I suppose :(

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37957430)

For most of the UK there's 3 choices, and they all suck. Sure we can stick to the small companies that use BT lines and avoid some problems, but not shit like this. If you live in some of the larger English cities there are real alternatives for Internet that have built their own networks - but if not then tough luck I suppose :(

Theres a good dozen medium sized ISPs who provide excellent service and have same/similar coverage.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing. (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37957156)

This makes zero sense.

It's so easy for consumers and site owners to use alternate addressing. Wasn't this explained to the judge? If the internet is like water flowing down a hill, putting a rock in the way won't do anything except reroute traffic in the same way that water will flow around the rock. If you build a dam, sure, you'l change things but building huge dams just to protect an outdated business model makes no economic sense; and it doesn't solve the fundamental problem that people still can still move data around on either side of the 'dam.'

This is solving the wrong problem.

File trading is the radio of the 21st century (1)

kawabago (551139) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956244)

Radio was the vehicle for consumers to find new music in the last century. No one listens to radio anymore, except in the car and then not so much. File trading is the way listeners find new music this century. If they succeed in stopping file trading in Britain, the British music industry will collapse, no one will be able to find new music so they'll stop buying.

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century (5, Insightful)

justforgetme (1814588) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956266)

You really forget one very important fact:

The Music Industry doesn't want you discovering new music! They are afraid that, in doing so, you might actually find the good stuff and stop buying Britney Spears.

Now it's the pirate bay, tomorrow they will want to shut down all the indie bands!

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956674)

Bull. The music industry doesn't care what you buy as long as you buy it from them. Also, Britney Spears sells (or rather sold) because people liked it.

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956502)

The core difference is that the radio was a sales vehicle. Payola still exists, just much better veiled. That doesn't work that well with the internet, since you, and not the radio station, decide what you listen to.

And that's something the studios are really afraid of. Since their only reason to exist anymore, in a world where publishing yourself has become trivial at worst, is that they control the means to get your music heard by the masses. YouTube stars and phenomenons are rare, and they are usually quickly scooped up by the music industry before they might become a problem and show people that they could find and get good music without relying on their "information".

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956618)

This (and the other two replies) really nail it.

Buy the department of justice (2)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956272)

Have they considered buying the UK equivalent of department of justice, like RIAA did in the US? That's a well-proven method of greasing the wheels to get what you want, and quite cost-effective. A few millions in political contributions lead to billions in profits.

Re:Buy the department of justice (2)

pigpilot (733494) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956390)

Not a good idea in the UK.

The UK is far behind the USA when it comes to political corruption and accepting corporate control of our courts and politicians.

Our equivalent of the US Department of Justice is staffed by largely independent career civil servants who will happily leak attempts to buy policy. They stay when the actual politicians come and go and are resistant to political interference with their day to day work.

We have the equivalent of rabid ferrets for a national press who love nothing more than ripping apart politicians for the sake of a headline and regularly set the politicians up. The tabloids tend to tear into anyone with fame or political/economic power and once they draw blood the BBC and other broadcast media will finish off the 'victim'.

We also have a judiciary that regularly gives the government the finger by managing to interpret new laws in ways the politicians never expected.

Corporations that try to buy legislation/political power have sometimes gotten away with having an influence, but more often than not end up getting their balls handed back to them on a platter.

As a UK citizen I'd love it if the music industry tried the crude methods they use in the USA as the backlash against them would be entertaining.

In the long run only change in the USA can stop the cancer of the American media industry trying to remake the rest of the world in it's own image.

Re:Buy the department of justice (1, Flamebait)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956496)

So we can assume BT will end up NOT blocking TPB because of your incorruptible legislature. Well thank goodness for that. Lemme just google uk political corruption here... wait-a-minute...!!?!?

Re:Buy the department of justice (1)

MrZilla (682337) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956768)

You don't have to be corrupt to be swayed by someones arguments...

Re:Buy the department of justice (1)

ka9dgx (72702) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956576)

The real question would be then, does the City of London want it, or not?

Re:Buy the department of justice (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956596)

It's not about whether or not your politicians are crooked. It's about finding their preferred flavor of cookie.

Re:Buy the department of justice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956676)

No, you don't understand. UK politicians are crooked. But they aren't the ones who actually do the work. Good luck finding the right person to bribe - by the time you do, your reputation and career will be in ruins from all the times you got it wrong.

Re:Buy the department of justice (1)

Froggels (1724218) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957444)

It's not about whether or not your politicians are crooked. It's about finding their preferred flavor of cookie.

Don't you mean flavour of biscuit?

Re:Buy the department of justice (1)

The Askylist (2488908) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956734)

The UK is far behind the USA when it comes to political corruption and accepting corporate control of our courts and politicians.

Mandelson. Triesman. Blair.

Need I go on?

OK, so none of them are in charge at the moment, but it was Mandelson who forced through the legislation which lies behind this prior to the last election.

The courts are different - but they are hamstrung by badly thought out and poorly drafted laws, mostly dating from the 13 years of Socialist utopia we are slowly escaping from.

Re:Buy the department of justice (1)

Insipid Trunculance (526362) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956902)

It used to be Rupert Murdoch ; not sure who/what it is these days.

Re:Buy the department of justice (1)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957536)

It's always fun on Slashdot to trash the USA. Yet here in the USA we have this pesky thing in our constitution called free speech. Funny how the USA always gets the criticism yet consider
1) In the USA you cannot get sent to jail for expressing hateful speech such as denying the holocaust.
2) In the USA you cannot get sent to jail for making racist statements.
3) In the USA I am not aware of ANY websites that are blocked by a court or government order. Even the RIAA and MPAA have not been able to accomplish that one.
I'm sorry that the UK and other European governments have decided to implement thought police, but as an American there's not really anything I can do about it.

BT will resist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956284)

BT have already made clear by fighting the original Newzbin case, and in subsequent statements, that every single block needs to go through the judicial process. BT and the BPI ren't exactly friends so I expect BT to make this as difficult as possible. There will be no quick "favours".

I don't think BT are really trying all that hard to block Newzbin. Reports suggest that simply using the IP rather than the DNS name are enough to get around the "block"...

Not exactly a race... (1)

toriver (11308) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956304)

If it takes several months to get a court order to block a site, and only a couple of days to set up a new torrent tracker (piratebay is just the best known out of a dozen or so), it's not hard to see it's a lost cause for the industries, which instead should focus on finding ways of making it easier to pay for content. But what they are doing is trying to cling to their outdated business models of artificial scarcity and market segregation.

Re:Not exactly a race... (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956360)

I think the idea is to make piracy sufficiently inconvenient and risky that most pirates just give up. As an approach, it could actually work - it'll never stop the core pirates who have been in it since the days of trading casettes and floppies, but it'll complicate things enough to drive away the casual pirates. Then just throw in a few high-profile prosecutions or expensive settlements of individual common p2p users to scare the rest off.

Re:Not exactly a race... (1)

Sqr(twg) (2126054) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956492)

As a casual pirate, forcing me to type "pirate bay replacement" into Google is not enough of an inconvenience. The only thing that would stop me from using bittorrent is if American TV series episodes could be legally downloaded in Europe on the same day as they air in the US. I don't mind paying, but having to wait a year is not an option.

With music it's not a year, but it can be a few weeks from a song starts playing on the radio until I can have a legally purchased copy.

What the entertainment industry needs to do is work together to make sure that there's an easy way for me to buy everything I want legally and immediately (and DRM free, of course). Then I might not bother to install a bittorrent client in the first place.

Re:Not exactly a race... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956574)

With music it's not a year, but it can be a few weeks from a song starts playing on the radio until I can have a legally purchased copy.

I imagine this is done everywhere, not just to spite the lowly Europeons. It's called "priming the pump": Getting consumers ready to buy the album by playing songs from it before it is even available. You can also think of it as building a hype. Getting stuff talked about. The act of buying a song is a climax so to speak, the end of the story for the music industry, the money shot. Once you've bought a song, they can only sell you other songs. This one is done, over, finished. The desire you feel before you can buy a song is part of what creates the high of buying. In a way it's part of the product, and it's ruined if you can just download anything you want whenever you want it without having to wait. Entertainment is about creating desires as much as it is about fulfilling them. The song itself is not the product.

What is BT? What is BPI? (0)

funfail (970288) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956310)

Not everybody lives in the UK. What is BT?

You may write the abstract like this as well:

"British MI body BPI has requested BT block access to PB. In response, BT say they will only do so if they receive a CO. But after BT recently lost a CC forcing them to block NB, it looks like it's a CoW — not if — this will happen."

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956318)

In the UK, we get baffled by acronyms you colonials use without explanation too. Fortunately, Google is quite good at helping in these situations.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956490)

Its a predominately American site.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956604)

"Its a predominately American site."

Yes, we knew that from the typos.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956950)

"Its a predominately American site."

Yes, we knew that from the typos.

Sad but true. Americans can't spell.

That's one of the reasons I dropped out of school, actually. I was able to perform algebraic calculations faster and more accurately in my head than the teacher could on the blackboard. I was actually given a C for the year by my Algebra 2 teacher for doing him the favor of going to the library instead of to class.

I wanted to go to college, but was stymied by the grammar and spelling issues with one of the professor's handouts. It was the instructor for the English class.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (1)

funfail (970288) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956678)

What is a colonial? :)

Actually, I am from a European country where obscure acronyms are not used without explanation.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (5, Informative)

mirix (1649853) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956334)

The oldest telecom in the world, with 100k employees in its current state, traded on both LSE and NYSE under the name 'BT'. Part of the FTSE index.

It used to be part of the post office. It was owned by the crown until fucking thatcher came along.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (1)

m50d (797211) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956662)

It used to be part of the post office. It was owned by the crown until fucking thatcher came along.

Yeah, and you'd wait a month to get a new phone line put in. I'm no fan of what privatization has done to e.g. the railways, but BT is one case where it actually worked.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956716)

At least over here the major difference was that before that you could demand that you had a phone line pretty much no matter where you lived and it cost about £50 to get it installed, now it costs £1000 and that is if you already live near an existing line. There was an old lady on the news yesterday, her safety alarm would not work any more because the telephone station in their are were being dismantled.

Yay privatization!

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (1)

digimortal_uk (849308) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957312)

At least over here the major difference was that before that you could demand that you had a phone line pretty much no matter where you lived and it cost about £50 to get it installed, now it costs £1000 and that is if you already live near an existing line. There was an old lady on the news yesterday, her safety alarm would not work any more because the telephone station in their are were being dismantled.

Yay privatization!

£1000? That's just plain wrong. According to their website it's £30 if you don't need an engineer visit, £130 if you do or free if you take broadband as well.

If you're being quoted £1000 you must live in the middle of nowhere and have never had a phone line before. Let me guess the milkman also doesn't deliver to your doorstep? Either suck it up or move to civilization.

Also prices have fallen 40% since priviatization so you're wrong on that count as well. (http://www.cps.org.uk/cps_catalog/CPS_assets/174_ProductPreviewFile.pdf)

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (1)

The Askylist (2488908) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956738)

Don't forget having to rent all your equipment from the GPO too, and it being illegal to connect non-approved kit...

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (1)

mirix (1649853) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956806)

AT&T had the same deal, and it was private, although regulated. I guess it's probably more related to stodgy old ways than anything else.

Hence acoustically coupled modems, and that sort of fun.

The nice part about leasing the phones was they were domestic made, brick shithouses, not like today's basic phone. They also double as an excellent bludgeoning tool. Designed specifically to reduce service calls, I guess.

In my region, we have a state owned POTS/mobile/internet carrier, they seem to compete well, and let you have a modem hooked to the line. So it isn't impossible. I suppose modernization might have sped up with competing carriers, though (although that is unrelated to privatisation). It's sort of like anything though, powers that be have run phones like this since forever, those sorts of mindsets take a while to come around. Letting consumers push data over the lines wasn't their sort of mandate.

Now, did they actually fear third party equipment would damage the lines? I mean that was the reasoning, but did they have faith in it? Maybe helpdesk didn't want to have to support 100000 models, who knows :p

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956916)

Talking shit again? BT was still 51% owned by the govt after going public.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956352)

BT is a major UK ISP. One of the oldest, and, possibly the largest. If not, it's certainly in the top three.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (1)

jonbryce (703250) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956354)

BT - A telecoms company formerly known as British Telecom. It is the largest and the incumbent operator similar to AT&T and the Baby Bells in the USA.

Sauce for the goose... (3, Interesting)

janrinok (846318) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956382)

Of course, we've never had a case of TFS using such acronyms as MAFIAA, SCOTUS, DOJ, DOD, RIAA or POTUS, which mean very little at first sight to many /.'ers who live outside the US. And if you had followed the 2nd link, which you already would have read if you had been following this story, you would have known the answer immediately. Come on, we all have to learn as we go through life. True, the summary would have been clearer to all if BT had been expanded but its not the end of the world. None of my British friends use the abbreviation BT to mean BitTorrent, we simply say 'torrents' or the 'BitTorrent' depending on context. Additionally, CO, CC NB and CoW do not appear to be recognised abbreviations or acronyms anywhere in the context of TFS.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (1)

Patch86 (1465427) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956520)

BT is a very large ISP and phone company; the former state monopoly one. BT is their name- they used to be called "British Telecom", but they aren't any more- they're just called "BT". In the same way as "AT&T" is their name- nobody translates it to "American Telephone & Telegraph" any more.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37957278)

It's not smart to call yourself something with a huge wikipedia disambiguation page [wikipedia.org] with possibly more important entities on the list. "AT&T" is original enough to be the king of its (small) disambiguation page [wikipedia.org] .

Content filtering = responsibility ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956322)

Because there is alot of internet that is hurting my sensitive eyes - every single time I repeatedly look at it

who can i sue?

Useless (5, Informative)

ocean_soul (1019086) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956366)

In Belgium ISP's have to block thepiratebay.org. This was ordered by a court a few weeks ago. So know everyone here uses depiraatbaai.be, which is just the name translated to Dutch. Shows the uselessness of trying to block something on the internet...

Re:Useless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956784)

MPAA are really clueless, if they really wanted TPB down they would go after those ad sellers that hand TPB money.

Re:Useless (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957052)

No they are looking into this, we've seen the stories before on Slashdot.

Re:Useless (1)

Xelios (822510) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956802)

It might be useless today, but now that they've got that first step of forcing an ISP to block a website they have all the time in the world to work out more effective alternatives to DNS filtering. I don't think they'll ever find something 100% effective, but they can do some real damage to the internet as we know it in the search. And as an added bonus they can say they've "exhausted all legal avenues" in their valiant struggle against piracy, that should help their cause some the next time they push for new legislation don't you think?

S^pongE (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956394)

AND PERSONgAL

BT made their own bed, now they must lie in it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956522)

BT were ordered to block Newzbin because they could show no technical challenge to doing so. They had implemented the CleanFeed filtering system on their own initiative so that they could advertise that they were "family-friendly" and full of goodness by blocking "undesirable" sites.

And now it has bitten them on the arse because it will only cost, at their admission, £600 to add each court-ordered blocking request to CleanFeed. In business terms that is an entirely reasonable cost of compliance.

Meanwhile other UK ISPs who advertise unfiltered, uncensored connections and have no such blocking infrastructure are laughing heartily.

I have no sympathy for BT.

In other news: any chance that Slashdot could fix their posting JS? Hint: I am logged-in.

Anyone just find this hilarious now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37956580)

They can't do anything right, not even suing people. (besides people ignorant enough to cave to their pressure)

And BT are just humoring them with simple filters that anyone at home with any recent router+modem can implement.

Right response from both parties ... (1)

MacTO (1161105) | more than 2 years ago | (#37956642)

BT is correct in insisting upon a court order.

On the other hand, it is also completely appropriate to request the block on The Pirate Bay. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this site facilitates the distribution of materials against the rights holders wishes. Which is kinda illegal.

Actions like this are, in my opinion, much better than more clandestine approaches since it utilizes information that is made available to the public. (The Pirate Bay openly displays which torrents are available. A rights holder can use a BitTorrent client to verify that it is their material being distributed.) It does not circumvent a person's expectation to privacy since the information is made available in a public manner.

And for those mocking how easy it is to circumvent these blocks: sure it is. On the other hand, they are not trying to stop piracy because they know that piracy cannot be stopped. They are trying to do damage control, and that may just work. After all, they only need to stop the people who *may* buy their products. There is very little sense in wasting resources to tackle piracy by those who will never buy their product.

Re:Right response from both parties ... (1)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957028)

There is very little sense in wasting resources to tackle piracy by those who will never buy their product.

Thus explaining why the RIAA sued so many college students.

Re:Right response from both parties ... (1)

znerk (1162519) | more than 2 years ago | (#37957200)

On the other hand, it is also completely appropriate to request the block on The Pirate Bay. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this site facilitates the distribution of materials against the rights holders wishes. Which is kinda illegal.

So is a denial of service attack, which is unarguably what the court is ordering them to implement against thepiratebay.org.

I may be implying my support for the illicit activities that TPB is allegedly facilitating, but I am also strongly disagreeing with the methodology that the courts are implementing. In essence, the courts are agreeing that there is no legal basis for attacking TPB explicitly, so they are going to attempt to remove them from the "map" of the internet as an end-run around the judicial process that would be required to shut down TPB itself. Of course, the fact that the judicial system has already been used in a failed attempt to shut them down shows that this outrageous behavior is either not illegal, or can't be stopped.

Is it any wonder so-called "darknets" are flourishing?

OpenDNS (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37957056)

http://opendns.com/ [opendns.com]
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