Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Eclipse Launches New Programming Language

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the onslaught-of-new-languages dept.

Java 238

An anonymous reader writes "Eclipse has launched a website for a new JVM language, called Xtend. It's built with Eclipse's Xtext and compiles directly to Java code, similar to what CoffeeScript does to Javascript. It's not just an announcement but it's already there and useable, including a very feature-rich Eclipse integration."

cancel ×

238 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959246)

Why would anyone need a new programming languages? The ones I know are good enough for everything.

Re:Why? (0)

nepka (2501324) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959292)

Exactly, especially when it doesn't really give anything new or have any backing. At least C# comes with wide support, XNA, Xbox360 and Windows Phone 7 development along with Windows platform, and the language is actually hundreds of times better than Java. On top of that .NET runtime is lightweight, especially compared to the bloat that is Java. To be honest, Java needs to die already. Everyone will be better off.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959424)

"To be honest, Java needs to die already. Everyone will be better off."

Except those that run a platform that lacks support (either no support or some outdated version).

Re:Why? (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959552)

"To be honest, Java needs to die already. Everyone will be better off."

Except those that run a platform that lacks support (either no support or some outdated version).

I'm programming in this right now:
http://www.mono-project.com/Start [mono-project.com]

And the IDE is absolutely terrific:
http://monodevelop.com/ [monodevelop.com]

Re:Why? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959958)

I'm programming in this right now: http://gcc.gnu.org/ [gnu.org]

And the IDE is absolutely terrific: http://projects.gnome.org/gedit/ [gnome.org]

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960076)

I love open sores trolls.

Re:Why? (0)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959440)

I'd agree about the java/j2ee, but Microsoft and it's C# need to die too. they serve no good purpose that can't be done better by other languages. I'd never want to give legitimacy, ability to sue, or power to Microsoft by using their tools

Re:Why? (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959572)

I'd agree about the java/j2ee, but Microsoft and it's C# need to die too. they serve no good purpose that can't be done better by other languages. I'd never want to give legitimacy, ability to sue, or power to Microsoft by using their tools

Garbage collection. Forget everything else, garbage collection is the reason that I as a _user_ would prefer that the apps I use are developed in mono or Java.

As a developer, as soon as Linq is available in C++ I'll start writing my apps in C++. C++ and Qt are no less portable than Java, but everything that is a tedious in C++ is a breeze in C#.

Re:Why? (1)

Vanders (110092) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959654)

There is nothing magical about garbage collection that only the Java or .Net VM's are capable of implementing. GC has a long history, stretching back to languages like LISP and SmallTalk. Hell even C++ has had the Boehm GC available for nearly 20 years.

Re:Why? (1)

HiThere (15173) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960182)

There's a big difference between "capable of having a garbage collector implemented" and "comes standard with a garbage collector built in". In the first case the language must be designed with the assumption that a garbage collector is likely to not be available. So don't count the Boehm GC, or even Ada's. (Ada had one before C++ did...but it wasn't required, so it was usually an extra cost option. So code couldn't assume that it would be present.)

No, there's nothing magical about having a garbage collector. But it eliminates a wide set of errors, and renders feasible languages that presume that objects will come and go. It also strongly encourages that pointers not be used. (Which means that some alternative approach must be adopted.)

It's not magical, but it's so useful that I hate using languages without it. (Even Vala has implemented a garbage collector as a part of the core language, and it translates all it's code into C for C to compile.)

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959690)

Garbage collection.

Smalltalk, Lisp, Python, Ruby, Erlang, etc.

How is it that Java gets credit for garbage collection, when they were two decades behind Smalltalk and three decades behind Lisp? Did Java do anything that Smalltalk didn't in the 70s? Okay, applets.

Re:Why? (2, Insightful)

HiThere (15173) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960134)

Yes. Java was (and is) a lot faster than Smalltalk. Sorry, but that *is* significant.

Of the languages that you list, only Lisp is faster, or even nearly as fast as, Java. And Lisp is hard to wrap your mind around. (And here I'm assuming that you mean compiled Common Lisp.) Also, in the early years of Java, a free compiler was unusual. Having a language with a free compiler was a real win. That's much less a consideration now, but now that shape of the language landscape has a lot more inertia.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960268)

A free compiler was unusual? Where? When? I studied programming before Java got lift-off, and free compilers were never an issue on the platforms I worked on.

Re:Why? (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960496)

Free compilers have been common since the 1960s. Mainframe vendors gave them away, Unix came with them, there were shareware compilers for the first PCs (encouraged but not required to make donation) for all manner of languages, from assemblers and COBOL and FORTRAN (yes, capitalized originally). Never a lack of free compilers in my lifetime.

Re:Why? (-1)

Feyr (449684) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960450)

they dont get the credit. they get the bitching.

java's garbage collector is horrible, probably the worst of all VM. that's exactly why you always hear about it
but it's the old "bad publicity is good publicity" trick, because we always hear about java's garbage everyone assume they're the only language to have one and they want garbage collection (who wouldn't? no one likes trash piling up on their front door!)

Re:Why? (0)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959710)

Because not the whole world uses windows and sometimes you need to do something that will run everywhere without needing independent versions.

Oh, and Android.

Re:Why? (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959728)

.NET ain't lightweight, and "hundreds of times" better, by what standard? Some rather minor language improvements are essentially crippled by the fact that it's crossplatform capacity is very limited. For all the good Mono does, I might as well just bloody well code in C/C++ with a library like Qt.

Re:Why? (3, Insightful)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959854)

You do know that the Java runtime is an order of managitude smaller than the .NET runtime dont you (and that is not even considering that .NET also requires the bulk on Windows while Java does not). In short, your knowledge is severly out of date - you musta been drinking the Microsoft koolaid. Well, here is news for you, .NET will be superceded by another Microsoft product long before people stop using Java (especially in the Enterprise space).

Re:Why? Lightweight? (2)

Meeuw (552270) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960056)

To have the .NET framework backwards compatible (like Java) you'll need to have all .NET frameworks installed which requires 4 GB. In what universe is that lightweight?

Re:Why? (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960084)

well, you'd have to kill actual people, like me to stop having more and more Java code around. You are welcome to come and try it.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960230)

well, you'd have to kill actual people, like me to stop having more and more Java code around. You are welcome to come and try it.

Ok, where are you? Just kidding. I've been a longtime Delphi programmer and the ability to deploy your executable, and only your executable, to a common share has been invaluable to me. What's that got to do with .NET? Well, I don't have to install on every workstation and there ain't a whole lot of bloat going on. What's it got to do with Java? Again, not much. Just I've not been a fan of .NET. So we do have something in common. (And yes, Delphi is still in use. It's quite functional and you can get all the way down to the asm level if you want....)

Re:Why? (1)

bcmm (768152) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960216)

wide support, XNA, Xbox360 and Windows Phone 7 development along with Windows platform,

Do you work for Microsoft?

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959300)

Seems like there is a new programming language every two weeks. As if the other several thousand in existence weren't enough.

Re:Why? (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959592)

Seems like there is a new programming language every two weeks. As if the other several thousand in existence weren't enough.

Yeah, devs should work on inventing a better text editor instead.

Oh, wait, this is coming out of the people who maintain Eclipse. Maybe the joke isn't so funny after all! Can Eclipse enable line numbers on the fly yet? Or changing text size on the fly? How about simply line wrapping?

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959778)

Ah, Eclipse... the only IDE I can think of that actually makes Visual Studio feel like greased lightning.

And in case that wasn't enough, they left out all the best features, made it clunky as hell and, to add insult to injury, made it ugly.

Re:Why? Because! (4, Insightful)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959388)

"We saw what you did with your classes, so we added some more classes to your classes to hide your classes because we have more class."

"We saw what you did with your syntax so we added some more syntax to your syntax to hide your syntax because we are more syntaxy."

"We saw that java still sucks so we added some more suckiness to java's suckiness to hide java's suckiness because our suckiness sucks less ... sort of ... maybe ..."

"... because our next step is to distract you from our new suckiness by adding more xml ..."

Re:Why? (1)

NFN_NLN (633283) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959508)

Summary isn't 100% clear and I'm too lazy to actually read the article, but which statement is accurate:

"compiles 'directly' to Java byte-code"

"compiles to Java source code"

Re:Why? (1)

M. Baranczak (726671) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960414)

Are you fucking serious? Clicking the link and reading just a few lines at the top would have answered your question (and would have been much less work than typing this post).

Re:Why? (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960092)

I agree. With everything that's out there - C#, Java, C++, C, gcc, visual studio, there's plenty out there. Almost like the attempt to invent Esperanto.

I like it (2)

msobkow (48369) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959250)

I like it. It looks like they've taken the power of C/C++ macros, wrapped it up in a clean simple syntax, and applied it to Java.

When I first started programming in Java, I was at a loss without my macros. The concept of macros and code expansion are so powerful, but often overlooked because they can be hideously difficult to debug and enhance.

Re:I like it (1)

msobkow (48369) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959296)

It's interesting to see Java replacing C as the back-end of compilers, though many still prefer the "Assembly" approach of producing JVM byte-code instead.

Re:I like it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959410)

It's interesting to see Java replacing C as the back-end of compilers, though many still prefer the "Assembly" approach of producing JVM byte-code instead.

Damn, when will we see Fortran, Ada and C++ compilers generate code for the JVM ?

Re:I like it (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959574)

Behold the horrors!
Microfocus COBOL for jvm and j2ee (this possibilty came up with one of my clients but we went a different route): http://visualcobol.microfocus.com/overview/platform/jvm/ [microfocus.com]
The University of Tennesee's Innovative Computing Laboratory is in the final stage of their F2J project, which will support Fortran 95 language to java bytecode: http://icl.cs.utk.edu/f2j/overview/index.html [utk.edu]
Ada to JVM, read about projects and products here: http://www.adahome.com/Resources/Ada_Java.html [adahome.com]
There was gcc back end to emit jvm bytecode, but RMS killed it because of Sun's Java license at the time. Things have changed since then, maybe that project will be resurrected.

Re:I like it (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959890)

ah yes, here's the old RMS argument (different era of java licensing) http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2001-02/msg00895.html [gnu.org]

Stall(in)man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960172)

That man is a Stalinist - the way he asked the guy to take it off his website and not let anybody know that it exists. It's not enough to just deny permission for it to be a back end to GCC.

I won't be sad when he's gone.

Re:I like it (2)

nepka (2501324) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959308)

The concept of macros and code expansion are so powerful, but often overlooked because they can be hideously difficult to debug and enhance.

And leads to extremely bad code. Goto has the same thing - it can be extremely powerful, but overusing it leads to really bad code.

Re:I like it (1)

siride (974284) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959630)

If you use C-style macros. Lisp-style macros are a lot better.

Re:I like it (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959782)

And leads to extremely bad code. Goto has the same thing - it can be extremely powerful, but overusing it leads to really bad code.

No it doesn't. A well designed macro system like that of lisp or haskell template lets you design nice clean code.
This is not true of macros in c or c++ where the macro system is either completely featureless or is a perversion of the compiler.
No matter how well you try to use/design macro code in c++ it will always read like shit and debug like shit. A worthless feature.

Re:I like it (3, Interesting)

onefriedrice (1171917) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959808)

And leads to extremely bad code. Goto has the same thing - it can be extremely powerful, but overusing it leads to really bad code.

It's not so much about overuse. Rather, it's the misuse of macros and gotos (and any other coding construct) that can lead to bad code. Macros and gotos get a bad rap because they get misused more often than other constructs, mostly by those who are really new to programming. When used appropriately, these constructs can make code more readable and easier to maintain. It's too bad that so many students are being taught to avoid gotos at all cost; better to teach them when gotos can be used to good effect.

Re:I like it (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960040)

The problem with languages with macros is that unlike, say, Smalltalk, you generally never know when macros might apply when and so change the meaning of what you are looking at unless you understand the *entire* program...

Re:I like it (1)

HiThere (15173) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960272)

Sorry, but it's not just people who are new to programming that use macros to make their code unintelligible. I've known some really foul examples that had been programming professionally for over a decade. I've got to assume that the macros fit in with how they thought about the code, because (well, in at least one case) he could pick up the code 6 months later and still readily understand it. But nobody else could.

For that matter, back in the days that structured programming was still fighting to get established I used to program (by my choice) in a thing called mortran, which was a thing that allowed you to emit structured Fortran 77 code, but write using while loops, and block structured code (i.e., without using go to statements). The code that was emitted was decent code, but totally unreadable. I could only debug the mortran source. (Not strictly true...sometimes I needed to trace things a far as a core dump...but quite rarely. It was generally easier to debug the source.) That could be considered a way of writing macros. But anyone who tried to maintain the fortran code would surely have been cursing my name.

Re:I like it (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959422)

The concept of Lisp macros and code expansion are so powerful, and they are easier to debug and maintain because they are not merely a matter of replacing strings (rather, the postponing of evaluating a lisp form so that you can modify the language).

Re:I like it (1)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959792)

Optional parentheses, optional semicolons...this is a neckbeard flamewar in the making.

Re:I like it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960044)

Yep. I stopped reading when I saw those on the feature list.

Those are not features goddammit.

Re:I like it (2)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959896)

Me too, for use with the Java ecosystem. They've taken some good ideas from Jython and Smalltalk. I wonder how smooth debugging is though?

Groovy / Scala (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959314)

Does it do anything that Groovy or Scala don't already?

Re:Groovy / Scala (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959544)

It may actually be useful.

Re:Groovy / Scala (1)

prefec2 (875483) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959550)

Xtend is merely designed for model to model and model to text transformations. Yes you can also use it for other tasks. And yes Scala has some similar concepts.

Re:Groovy / Scala (-1, Troll)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959612)

Does it do anything that Groovy or Scala don't already?

Neither Groovy nor Scala increase the Eclipse devs' self-perceived dick size.

Re:Groovy / Scala (1)

mr_da3m0n (887821) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959618)

Compile to readable Java code instead of jvm bytecode? Also I wouldn't really lob Scala in the same bag, it is a rather different animal, if you ask me.

Re:Groovy / Scala (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959660)

Compiles to readable java that those less familiar with other languages can easily reason about / debug? (It's difficult to move a team of devs to a new language, less difficult if you can sell them on the idea of still being able to read the resulting code in the language they're familiar with until fully comfortable)

Re:Groovy / Scala (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959702)

You can target GWT, Android, etc?

Re:Groovy / Scala (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959956)

People have been running Scala on Android for at least two years. Scala on GWT [github.com] seems to be coming along nicely too.

Eclipse (5, Funny)

ZankerH (1401751) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959382)

The "You want performance? Fuck you, have more features instead!" of IDEs.

Re:Eclipse (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959470)

Yea... coz performance is so much more important than features for an IDE. Fuck off, go use vi or nano or something.

Re:Eclipse (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959476)

The "You want performance? Fuck you, have more features instead!" of IDEs.

Too much coffee? Sounds like you're taking this a a personal attack on your lack of programming skills.

Re:Eclipse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959590)

Fuck off and let us use our IDE as an IDE, go cat text to files or something.

Reinventing Emacs Lisp... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959386)

...but fat, slow and horribly resource-hungry.

Meh.

Re:Reinventing Emacs Lisp... (2)

Mitchell314 (1576581) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959450)

"but"? I think you meant "Also". :P

Java needs new versions (2, Interesting)

bigsexyjoe (581721) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959432)

Seems like cool language. Much like Spring and the new JVM languages, it seems like this exists primarily to address shortcomings that Java has because it hasn't come out with new versions for so long.

Eclipse already writes a lot of Java for you, so this seems like a natural extension. Of course, this is a ridiculous state of affairs. When a most code in a language is boilerplate, it's time for a new version, that takes care of that for you. I mean could you imagine anyone releasing a Java-like language today that didn't have first class treatment of properties, didn't have syntax for applying a function to every member of a collection, and didn't have better type inference?

It's interesting that it compiles to Java, I don't think it'll be long before, it'll start to completely skip the Java phase.

EMF (4, Informative)

prefec2 (875483) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959454)

We are using Xtext (2.0) and its companion Xtend (2.0) to build domain specific languages. Together with Xbase, a part grammar for expressions, we can build new DSLs for various purposes in no time. And it is not such a code bloat as some people might think. When you develop applications with a wide range of models, these EMF-based tools are quite practical. Beside that, we evaluated ATL, QVT, and Xtend in various scenarios. Right now it looks like, that Xtend is very well suited to build generators to source code of other languages especially Java and Scala. It also made a good impression in model-to-model transformations.

Re:EMF (1)

AlterEager (1803124) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960078)

We are using Xtext (2.0) and its companion Xtend (2.0) to build domain specific languages. Together with Xbase, a part grammar for expressions, we can build new DSLs for various purposes in no time. And it is not such a code bloat as some people might think. When you develop applications with a wide range of models, these EMF-based tools are quite practical. Beside that, we evaluated ATL, QVT, and Xtend in various scenarios. Right now it looks like, that Xtend is very well suited to build generators to source code of other languages especially Java and Scala. It also made a good impression in model-to-model transformations.

Ah. I guess i'll skip it then.

Re:EMF (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960336)

Ok. Seriously.

What the fuck does this buzzword-laden diatribe fucking mean?

Are you some kind of fetal alcohol syndrome baby fucktard who expects not to be laughed at, after saying shit like that publicly?

Here comes the injenction (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959478)

I am sure Oracle wont be happy

Re:Here comes the injenction (1)

leenks (906881) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959608)

Err? Why?

Re:Here comes the injenction (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959658)

Who cares - F@#$ Oracle and Larry. All they can do is dick up everything they get the hands on. They will kill Java eventually with their attitude.

Re:Here comes the injenction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959838)

They will kill Java eventually

Hey, at least something good will come out of it...

Seriously though, java is infuriating. Combining the terse elegance of C++ with the speed of a late 1970s Lisp implementation.

Re:Here comes the injenction (3, Informative)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959868)

Who cares if Oracle kill their Java. The Free Software OpenJDK is where the action is at. Then there is IBM Java, and GNU gcj/classpath, and Kaffe, and others. It is not a situation like .NET where if Microsoft kills it then it'll die everywhere (due to the proprietary licensing).

The real point of Xtend is Xtext (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959494)

Xtend is an example language developed with the Xtext language construction toolkit. It also now does double duty as a support language for that same toolkit. The dynamic dispatch and string template portions of the language make it ideal for model-to-model and model-to-text transformations (i.e. compiler construction) when developing Domain Specific Languages in Xtext.

Experienced Xtenders wanted (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959518)

We are planning to use this language in our future projects. Now we are searching experienced Xtend-coders with a minimum of 3-5 years experience on Xtend-coding.

Re:Experienced Xtenders wanted (1)

Chaos Incarnate (772793) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959960)

Replying to undo bad moderation.

Re:Experienced Xtenders wanted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960236)

Preferably with a college degree and under 20.

Re:Experienced Xtenders wanted (2)

prefec2 (875483) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960284)

Well. This would be possible. The predecessor of Xtend (2) was Xtend (1) and Xpand which are the sucessors of the openArchitectureWare transformations. And 3-5 year of Xtend or oAW experience is possible. Nevertheless, I am waiting for some dumb job offer writing just like the one you sketched ;-)

How many inches will Xtend give me? (1)

rollingcalf (605357) | more than 2 years ago | (#37959636)

Scalability and performance are important.

Re:How many inches will Xtend give me? (1)

prefec2 (875483) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960292)

It is so cool it will be at least 2 inches in length and diameter.

Running from a build script (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37959758)

I don't see anything about running this as part of an ant build, I can't see this being practical to use yet if the only thing available is an eclipse plugin.

CaffeeScript? (1)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960032)

Since when did that language become significant?

Also, bad analogy. CaffeeScript compiles to JavaScript source code. This new language from Eclipse compiles to Java bytecode (just like Groovy, Scala, +various other languages).

Re:CaffeeScript? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960118)

No, this new language from Eclipse compiles to Java source code.

Re:CaffeeScript? (1)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960474)

Ok, then it's not a JVM language considering the JVM can't execute Java source code.

Re:CaffeeScript? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960164)

Not according to the website, that says "compiles to readable Java code".

(I agree with you about CoffeeScript)

Re:CaffeeScript? (1)

prefec2 (875483) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960304)

nope. Xtend compiles to Java, which is compiled to JVM byte code.

Re:CaffeeScript? (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960426)

Since when did that language become significant?

Since some languages have started to lag more than a decade behind other languages, and since people have realized that certain language features (e.g. closures) lead directly to better designed libraries.

Re:CaffeeScript? (1)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960482)

I'm pretty sure JavaScript has closures.

Welcome Programm Language #2.342E1324821343237122 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960060)

Yippy, yet another programming language. We need more of them - ideally 7 billion of them so everyone can have his own one.

Ok, cynism aside. Serious question: Why don't people work on making existing languages more effective by providing powerful frameworks, libraries and the like? It's the ecosystem that determines the value of a programming language - much more than syntax or any neat / elegant tricks. Starting with a new programming language puts you on square one again: No users, no frameworks / libraries.

Re:Welcome Programm Language #2.342E13248213432371 (1)

sourcerror (1718066) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960274)

The thing is, C# has already macroing capability (and other lispy features) and Java is often dissed for the lack of it. This language seems to address that.

Re:Welcome Programm Language #2.342E13248213432371 (1)

scottbomb (1290580) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960424)

AMEN.

Where's that mod point when I actually need it?

Xtend Dart Scala Go Groovy etc - STOP!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960162)

Head is going to explode - what happened to having an industry standard language? If you know it, you can write programs in it. Magic pixie dust (toolchain, compilers, etc) turns your code into a binary for your platform.

I actually like syntactically weird languages better than C-like ones. The C-like ones are so similar it's hard to remember them. Switching languages is cognitively hard.

Example - length of string - is it:

strlen() like C and PHP
length() like Perl
string.len
string.length (properties)
string.len()
string.length() (methods)

???

Right now, I can't even remember Java's way of doing it, and I mainly use Java!

I need a desk full of O'Reilly books just to function.

When does this get really bad? When you have a PHP or JSP page that emits code in JavaScript, CSS, and jQuery. Yes, there is a logical and necessary distinction between JavaScript anonymous properties and CSS definitions, but after a few hours it all blurs together. Throw in the meta-level confusion (is this code, or is this emitting code?) and JSP's three syntaxes (Java, EL, and the thankfully mostly-ignored ColdFusion abomination JSTL) and my head wants to explode.

Re:Xtend Dart Scala Go Groovy etc - STOP!!! (1)

Raenex (947668) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960326)

what happened to having an industry standard language?

We'd all be programming in FORTRAN or COBOL if we stuck with that mentality.

my head wants to explode

I sympathize. There's more technology than you can shake a stick at. I just don't see any way out of this mess. Technology is always going to churn while chasing improvements.

Efforts that could be better spent... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37960196)

Not sure whether there is a need for that today.
Instead of providing features that people don't really need, they'd better add native support to maven once and for all.
The way maven support is built today in Eclipse sucks big time and is making may of my clients look away.

So I installed it now how do I run it? (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960200)

I got the tutorial project created, but I don't see an option to compile/run it as Xtend?

Re:So I installed it now how do I run it? (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960308)

This kind of hints at generatign Xtext language artifacts?
http://www.eclipse.org/Xtext/documentation/2_1_0/035-domainmodel-java.php [eclipse.org]

Anyway, what gives? I guess the Eclipse people just assume people can figure out how to compile some new language in Eclipse? Or figure out how to use Xtext and somehow understand how Xtend related to it?

Or maybe something went wrong related to the install? I had to guess from about 20 packages which to install with various combinations of stuff with different versions.

So, still some obvious rough edges for anyone who wants to try it.

Re:So I installed it now how do I run it? (1)

prefec2 (875483) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960330)

I did not play with your tutorial. However, in most cases there is a file with a *.mwe2 extension (or similar). Right click on it and choose under Run as ... the option run as MEW workflow.

Re:So I installed it now how do I run it? (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960374)

Thanks. Sadly, I can't find a file with a mwe2 extension in the Xtend tutorial project.

Re:So I installed it now how do I run it? (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960476)

OK, I got it working. Basically, I (think I) must have installed just the runtime and UI parts. I assumed Eclipse would take care of dependencies. So, nothign ran. Then I tried again and installed more modules, but the turotial still did not work. Then I dleeted the tutorial project, and remade is as an example. And now it works.

Re:So I installed it now how do I run it? (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960486)

I got it working; see my other comment here, but basically I did not have all the required modules installed. The download instructions could be a lot clearer on exactly what you should be installing. I think I ended up with just the UI and SDK the first time.

Tell me it ain't C# (1)

tgv (254536) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960296)

I don't care about type inference. My IDE does a good job. And I like static typing. But well, the language has closures and typed switches, so why not. But then the set/get feature.

First we got told that writing person.name = "John" is bad. Bad, bad, bad. I never understood why. Sure, getters and setters are very useful, beans and all, and it can take away some trouble, but if you really need a function that does more than change the value of field x, why call it setX()?

Anyway, that's the current practice: getX() and setX(), and sometimes they don't get x, or set x, but just pretend. Now Xtend translates person.name = "John" into a call to a setter. And that's even worse. In a previous job, I inherited C# code that had statements like db.open = true. Whaddya think that meant? Why, it opens the db connection, via the setter, of course! And indeed, assigning false... So now all this power of abuse has come full circle back to Javaland. What a mess.

Re:Tell me it ain't C# (1)

FlyingGuy (989135) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960390)

Just be thankful it does not use white space as a block closure.

Yet Another C Variant (YACV) (1)

FlyingGuy (989135) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960362)

Lets take C, wrap it in C, then wrap that in C and then wrap the whole thing in yet more C.

Can we please just program in C?

yay! Another langauge (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#37960394)

Just what we need....

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>