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Ask Slashdot: Spoof an Email Bounce With Windows?

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the we've-all-got-needs dept.

Communications 244

An anonymous reader writes "One cool feature I used on KMail years ago was the ability to generate a spoofed email bounce for any given message I had received, which claimed delivery failed because of an unknown recipient. While this doesn't exactly align with expected behaviour from a mail client, it was a useful way of easily getting off mailing lists (automated, or manually created by freaky acquaintances!). This is something I really miss, so I'm wondering if there are any mail clients for Windows that provide similar functionality?"

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Install Cygwin + mutt (1, Interesting)

gentryx (759438) | more than 2 years ago | (#37966824)

...or boot into Linux directly. :-P

Re:Install Cygwin + mutt (1)

nepka (2501324) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967484)

It can be easily done with Outlook and some VBA scripting. But I remember that at least last time VBA support under Linux wasn't really that good. So you need Windows for this task.

Re:Install Cygwin + mutt (1)

JambisJubilee (784493) | more than 2 years ago | (#37968008)

I'm a mutt user. Care to share how this is done in mutt?

Re:Install Cygwin + mutt (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37968156)

RTFM

Can't have your cake and eat it too. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37966830)

Maybe you should switch back to a system that makes it easier to do more advanced types of things instead of a car with the hood welded shut.

Can't Demand Strangers Spoon-feed You (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37966892)

Or he could just fucking Google it [justfuckinggoogleit.com] like a literate non-helpless person.

Re:Can't Demand Strangers Spoon-feed You (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37966962)

In the time it took you to be a twat like that you could have just helped.

Re:Can't Demand Strangers Spoon-feed You (2)

cloudmaster (10662) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967194)

Teaching to fish > giving fish

Re:Can't Demand Strangers Spoon-feed You (5, Insightful)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967322)

Except that saying just fucking google it isn't teaching somebody to fish either. It's very quick to enter terms into a search engine if you know what the answer is, and quite a bit more difficult if you have no idea what the answer should look like.

In this case you have to figure out how to exclude the various ways of saying anti-spoof while not excluding essential links. And google often times makes it a pain in the ass to find things as any appearance of the terms anywhere in the page is by default considered a match. Even if they're not only not in the same sentence, but not even in the same paragraph. My favorite thing is when the engine finds the words in a link bar on the side of the page or as contact information at the bottom.

Re:Can't Demand Strangers Spoon-feed You (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967218)

In the time it took you to be a twat like that you could have just helped.

"Helping" someone to be a helpless moron isn't really helping them with anything.

You're actually admitting my point. Since the time it took me to write a one-liner is enough time to solve his problem, it doesn't deserve a group discussion. Recognizing that makes ME the twat? I think pretending it's valid makes you the bleeding-heart jackass. You know that heart thing you have? Yeah it's great and so are the warm fuzzies you feel in it sometimes, even on occasion for idiots who burden other people and waste their time. You know that head/brain thing you also have? Yeah that's what you think with.

Re:Can't Demand Strangers Spoon-feed You (2)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967338)

It's not enough time to solve the problem. There have been plenty of times where even after a couple hours of searching for an answer somebody else who knew what to look for could find it in about 30 seconds. And I know there have been times where I could find something almost instantly because I knew the cause from years back.

Just fucking google it is really not an acceptable response in cases like this.

Re:Can't Demand Strangers Spoon-feed You (2)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967618)

    Hey twat, who the hell are you replying to? That quote doesn't come from anywhere in this thread. Or are you assuming that someone will say it, so you can bitch about it?

    But to try to stay on topic.

    I really hate these threads. By the time I turn to Google to find the answer to a problem, it usually means I've exhausted my vast knowledge, and that of my friends. More often than not, I find plenty of these threads saying "go figure it out yourself" and "don't you know how to work a search engine?" Sometimes they'll post links back to their own page on the subject, but the page will have been gone for years, and it wouldn't have attracted the attention of archive.org. So, no answers.

  If you have an answer for someone, say what the fucking answer is. Don't pretend that you're so much smarter, and they can go figure it out themselves. As I've learned, most of the people who play that game, don't know the answer themselves.

    I'm not replying to the OP, because I don't have an answer. I do have some rather complicated ones, but those don't seem to be the ones that he wants. That would be something like, make another account on a Linux machine. Forward messages he wants bounced to that account. That account should have .forward pointing to a script (Perl would be my choice), which removes the forwarding information, and crafts a nice legitimate looking bounce message.

Re:Can't Demand Strangers Spoon-feed You (0)

nepka (2501324) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967878)

Hey twat, how fucking high are you? The quote is right in GPP's post. It's not a long post either.

Re:Can't Demand Strangers Spoon-feed You (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37968132)

Hey twat, is "hey twat" the standard greeting now?

Re:Can't Demand Strangers Spoon-feed You (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37968230)

Hey twat, how are you doing?
Yes, it is the standard greeting.

Re:Can't Demand Strangers Spoon-feed You (2)

wygit (696674) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967940)

"Let me google that for you" http://lmgtfy.com/ [lmgtfy.com] would seem to make a lot more sense, since you would actually be helping someone learn a search term that works, vs the thousands that don't.

But of course, if you're just trying to be a dick, your link is much better.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (0)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#37966992)

It would be more like switching from a fully-working, pretty BMW with air-conditioning and all to a Lada with two-missing wheels: even though you can open the hood, you're still not going to get anywhere.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967062)

Now someone is really taking the piss "ully-working, pretty BMW" no such thing fortunately ALL BMW's are SHITE along with BOLLOX Wagons and Jerkades get yer facts right Audi USED to be ok but now well nuff said

Junk boxes all of them

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967202)

I work in the automotive industry, specifically related to roadside service (tow trucks and such). I can tell you without reservation that the worst cars today are still more reliable than the best cars of decades gone by. Use per capita for road service has been steadily going down since as far back as I'm aware of our records.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967288)

If your "optional" automobile maintenance is anything like your use of "optional" punctuation, I'll posit that the problem is not the cars.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967734)

bonus points for mentioning Lada....

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (-1, Troll)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967256)

Exactly right. While it might be possible to do things like this in Windows, it completely goes against the entire philosophy of the system. If you use Windows, you need to not do anything that would annoy your corporate overlords, and this activity certainly qualifies for that. Windows is the OS you use when you want to be a good corporate stooge. Linux is what you use if you want to exercise free, independent thought.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967432)

Interesting. Could you tell us why someone who is not mentally defective should agree with you?

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (5, Insightful)

nepka (2501324) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967464)

Sidestepping the whole garbage that your post was, how the hell is this an OS function? It isn't in Linux either. And there is no reason why it couldn't be done on any OS.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (-1, Flamebait)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967768)

It's not a technical thing, it's a philosophical thing. It's like wanting to use a Mac and wanting to highly customize your UI on it: why would you do such a thing? Macs are for people who buy into Apple's entire UI philosophy, not people who want to change it around (like adding virtual desktops, etc.); they're like appliances that way. Similarly, Windows is for people who buy into MS and their corporatist philosophy.

To make a lame car analogy, it's like buying a Hummer and wanting to turn it into an eco-friendly vehicle, or buying a Ferrari and wanting to turn it into an off-road vehicle.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (1)

nepka (2501324) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967910)

I'm fairly sure Windows is a general purpose OS with no one philosophy. It has a market share of over 90% - every kind of person uses Windows. There's a fair share of programmers (even FOSS ones) and hackers (in the good sense) too.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967576)

No, Linux is what you use when you've got a lot of free time on your hands, and a beard. Windows is for Getting Shit Done. Lawn. Get off it.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (-1, Troll)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967786)

That's weird; with Windows, I have to waste all kinds of time hunting down drivers for devices, and the UI is so deficient I can't get much work done because there's no virtual desktops to separate my activities into, and the one workspace gets so cluttered with dozens of open windows. With Linux, all my devices "just work" with no messing around with downloading drivers from vendor websites, and it's much easier to get work done thanks to the superior UI. Plus, I don't have to deal with the OS wasting tons of CPU cycles making sure I'm not pirating something, like Vista did, bringing the system to a crawl.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (1)

e70838 (976799) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967944)

Very strange I am using linux since 2 years for the exact opposite reason. I have Ubuntu. It is a system that does not degrade with time. My computer is still marvellously fast as it was 2 years ago. With windows, I was always loosing time fixing issues. Now, I spend 100% of my time using the applications. I know openoffice is not perfect, but it is always improving automatically, not always degrading like microsoft office. When I need a new application, it is free and trivial to install. With windows, most of the applications available on internet are malwares, often very hard to fully uninstall.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (2)

Porchroof (726270) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967638)

Don't you people ever get tired of the Linux vs. Windows pillow fight?

Most people use Windows because it is very functional and there are more application programs written for it than for Linux or any other operating system.

Get over it, Linux people. Windows is here to stay and Linux will never be more popular than it is.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967696)

Viruses and malware wrapped in pornographic solitaire clones don't count

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (1)

sjames (1099) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967698)

Honestly, I don't care what kind of dog you like, just keep it from crapping in my yard from now on.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (0)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967796)

Linux will never be more popular than it is.

Didn't the mainframe people say the same thing about PCs?

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (-1, Flamebait)

bloodhawk (813939) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967704)

Sooooo now email is a function of the OS you use and not a client Application? FFS where the hell does slashdot find these retards, this used to be a place where at least most people had some semblence of knowledge even if opinions were heavily slanted.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (-1, Troll)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967804)

Looks like you're the retard. I never said you couldn't do it, just that it's against the philosophy.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (2)

eyegone (644831) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967866)

Doesn't email have something to do with the interwebs?

That means this should be a function of Internet Explorer.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (1)

redback (15527) | more than 2 years ago | (#37968196)

Did you even read the post?

He asked for a mail client that runs on windows with this functionality.

Derp.

Re:Can't have your cake and eat it too. (1)

mcavic (2007672) | more than 2 years ago | (#37968006)

You can do it with any language that lets you open a network connection and send raw text. The hard part is integrating it with your email client.

Call Microsoft support and ask them (3, Insightful)

suso (153703) | more than 2 years ago | (#37966842)

Why don't you call Microsoft support and ask them. After all, isn't this one of the things you pay for and they are supposed to provide stellar support with?

Re:Call Microsoft support and ask them (2, Funny)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967020)

I love that when I saw your message it was scored (+1, troll). If ever a message deserved to be scored (+5, troll), it was yours. You will, of course, most likely end up (+4, insightful) which is a good consolation prize but not as fitting.

Re:Call Microsoft support and ask them (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967472)

No, I agree with him. Slashdot is a major "news" site. This isn't experts-exchange or MS support. Why the hell is "how do I..." making front page news?

Re:Call Microsoft support and ask them (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967670)

Log in and fucking exclude the Ask Slashdot section, then. It's like turning off Idle.

Re:Call Microsoft support and ask them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967262)

Yes, that's a great idea! And then, we can call up Red Hat - that pillar of Open Source support - and ask them if there is a program for Linux that will spoof that something just as silly. Woohoo!

Re:Call Microsoft support and ask them (2)

unrtst (777550) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967478)

Sure, go ahead... that's an easy answer, since the question started with "One cool feature I used on KMail years ago ...".

Bounce has legit purposes. The only reason you don't see it in many other clients is the pompous philosophy that UI's should completely remove features that might cause any confusion to any one of the users. It's extremely simple to implement, so that's not why it isn't there. It's been in mail clients of old, so they have actively had to do something in order to remove it (it's lack of presence cost developer time, not used it). It's one of those things that should show up when someone selects the "show advanced options" checkbox, but that's not trendy.

IMO, they should call up Redmond and find out what their recommended way of doing this is. If users don't ask for the features they want, how is the provider supposed to know their user base? Granted, I doubt there'd be enough requests to warrant adding "bounce" back to the main Outlook UI, but maybe there's a registry flag they could toggle? (again, why do people keep dropping the advanced options from the UI? Gnome/Unity/Ubuntu, I'm looking at you!)

Re:Call Microsoft support and ask them (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967298)

This is exactly right. It's like buying a brand-new BMW or Cadillac or whatever, and then wanting to convert it into an electric vehicle. Doing such a thing is really rather pointless: if you want an EV, you should either buy a car that was specifically engineered to be one (like a Leaf), or you should build your own. Don't expect any help from BMW/Cadillac on converting your brand-new car to an EV, and don't expect such cars to be optimal for such a conversion either (in fact, they're probably the absolute worst vehicles to use for such a conversion).

Re:Call Microsoft support and ask them (1, Flamebait)

Fnord666 (889225) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967824)

Why don't you call Microsoft support and ask them. After all, isn't this one of the things you pay for and they are supposed to provide stellar support with?

So what you are really saying is that you don't know the difference between an operating system and the applications that run on it.

Outlook (2, Informative)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 2 years ago | (#37966852)

I'm not a fan of MS Outlook, but it's integrated VBA makes writing a custom plugin easy and painless. Visual Basic in any flavor had a bad stigma, however, having a development environment right in the application is exactly what I would think would solve your problem effectively.

Re:Outlook (1)

nufrosty (1569835) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967192)

Agreed 100%. I have successfully used VBA in Outlook for a number of interesting automated email handling tasks (at work where I don't dictate the environment).

Re:Outlook (1)

Yuioup (452151) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967328)

Aha so it was you who wrote all those self-replicating Outlook viruses. Thanks a lot dude.

KDE on Windows? (4, Informative)

Gwala (309968) | more than 2 years ago | (#37966860)

Doesn't KDE run on Windows these days? You could probably just run KMail directly...

Re:KDE on Windows? (1)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 2 years ago | (#37966896)

Yes, but don't expect support for it—I don't think it sees much use beyond dogfooding. I suspect it's only a matter of time before it gets dropped. (On that note, has anyone ever heard of someone using KDE on Windows seriously?)

Re:KDE on Windows? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37966990)

Actually, I use it seriously, but only to replace the calculator in XP.

I was going to use it for KMail, but I've had too many problems with GPG in KMail and just went with Thunderbird for all of my systems.

--Jeff

Re:KDE on Windows? (0)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967082)

I support the idea, but not enough to install windows for it...

Re:KDE on Windows? (1)

NotSanguine (1917456) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967130)

Doesn't KDE run on Windows these days? You could probably just run KMail directly...

It sure does. cf. The Cygwin Project [cygwin.com]

Re:KDE on Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967172)

Cygwin has nearly nothing at all to do with running Qt apps on Windows.

Re:KDE on Windows? (2)

osu-neko (2604) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967224)

It sure does. cf. The Cygwin Project [cygwin.com]

Can't recommend that enough. Cygwin is the only thing making Windows into a usable operating system these days. You can even have Cygwin/X run on startup and run X apps on demand under Windows. If you don't need X, just install mintty. (You don't neeed separate installs for either, just select them in the Cygwin installer when installing it, and pin mintty to your Taskbar and/or copy the XWin Server shortcut to your Startup folder.)

Re:KDE on Windows? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967594)

Or you could just use the KDE installer: http://windows.kde.org/

huh?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37966884)

so you went from Linux to Windows???

Re:huh?? (3, Insightful)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967234)

Why not?

I went back to the Just Works(tm) environment of Cubase + Win XP after nearly throwing my computer out the window trying to get that steaming pile of shit Jack to work with Ardour.

I use Mailwasher (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37966938)

http://www.mailwasher.net/mailwasher-free

telnet mailhost.foo.com 25 (2)

jurgen (14843) | more than 2 years ago | (#37966950)

If you don't speak SMTP as a second language you probably shouldn't have that feature.

*grin*

:j

script it (2)

johnjones (14274) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967050)

yes... exactly, simply script it...
why not just build it yourself and publish it...
even outlook has scripting ability and hooks
maybe this is what you need :
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/mail-redirect/

or you could add to it...

regards

John Jones

Re:telnet mailhost.foo.com 25 (2)

buchner.johannes (1139593) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967304)

You won't get far with telnet unless you can do SSL in your head. I recommend socat [dest-unreach.org] .
$ socat ssl:mail.foo.com:456 stdio

Usefulness (5, Informative)

MicroSlut (2478760) | more than 2 years ago | (#37966956)

Not even a 550 SMTP session will get you off most mailing lists because, even if it is a legitimate list, the marketers are too aggressive to care. Also, a NDR after a successful session will likely go to either an unmonitored mailbox, a hapless user who won't understand it, or null. Weed through some email logs and you'll see. I see some lists that have been emailing the same address for ten years and I always disconnect with a 550. That said, try Pegasus Mail. I find that it does almost anything.

Re:Usefulness (4, Insightful)

nepka (2501324) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967536)

Well that's not entirely true. Spammers don't have infinite resources, and they value working email addresses. This is why they also clean up their lists or buy lists that are guaranteed to work. It makes their process much faster and more efficient. If they had infinite resources, they would be just spamming random email addresses.

Re:Usefulness (2)

MicroSlut (2478760) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967888)

OP is concerned about automated lists not harvested lists. NDRs for spammers would create backscatter as the originating addresses are usually spoofed. Also, spammers DO spam random email addresses and they are using zombies so their resources are huge. I see terminated sessions in my logs everyday for addresses like a@, b@, c@, web@ user@, tech@, etc from zombified systems. Thankfully some ISPs egress filter destination port 25, even though I disagree on principal.

Re:Usefulness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967914)

Spammers value valid destination addresses, they don't value valid "FROM:" addresses. So it is not useful anyway.

Re:Usefulness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37968136)

Also more and more mailservers respond with '250 user ok' or similar, for EVERY address both valid and invalid, this has led to spammers including web-bugs and similar content in their spam shots, just use a program like MailWasher, it does what you want, and it only views emails in plaintext, so no phoning home to a spam server in Russia or China to confirm addresses!

Mail Washer (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37966980)

I've used it for years and I bounce all Spam. Had my Spam down to next to nothing until one of my email addresses got stolen when a server got hacked. Been working on it and slowly but surely I'm getting the Spam in hand again. It's well worth the 39 bucks!

Re:Mail Washer (3, Informative)

Skippy_kangaroo (850507) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967104)

While the spammy advertisement would normally warrant no attention, it does raise a point that is worth noting:

Because the from address is invariably forged, you do nothing with a bounce. In fact, it's worse than nothing, because you create backscatter [wikipedia.org] . I have suffered from backscatter and it is a pain - it just multiplies the spam problem. So, could I request that you just stop it!

Check out Eudora (3, Informative)

Rudolf (43885) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967002)

Eudora had this feature in the past, so you might want to look at it and see if it still does.

http://eudora.com/ [eudora.com]

It's apparently open source now, so if you could add this feature if it doesn't exist.

Re:Check out Eudora (2)

nepka (2501324) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967056)

Eudora is actually just Thunderbird with an Eudora-like look now. It's sad really, I loved Eudora.

Thunderbird plugin (2)

lorumaster (896043) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967046)

FYI: Redirect != Bounce (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967158)

Really those are different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_delivery_report

Yours,

ac

Mailwasher has a bounce feature (2)

mombodog (920359) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967106)

Mailwasher has that feature, plus a few more. http://www.mailwasher.net/ [mailwasher.net]

You are wrong (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967120)

Kmail may have offered a bounce function, but this would not get you off spam lists. Just about every spam message is not from the domain the sender in the envelope claims to be from. You are sending a pointless message to the domain being fraudulently used. E.g. you get a spam "from" mydomain.com, you bounce back, mydomain.com didn't actually send the message but now has to deal with your junk response.

Re:You are wrong (3, Insightful)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967330)

If I read the question correctly, he's not talking about getting off of spam lists, he's talking about getting off of legitimate mailing lists that are annoying. It's a fine distinction, but you're talking about "spam" which is things like Viagra ads and others that are not legitimate, but are instead mailed from zombie/botnet computers and the like and are really illegal. He's talking about mailing lists owned or bought by companies and used to send completely legitimate emails to prospective customers; you can get on these when you give out your email address, or when you buy things online from various companies. You might only get emails from a company you bought from, or they may sell your email address and then you'll get emails from other companies you haven't bought from. Either way, it's actually legal AFAICT, until you opt-out. The problem is the opt-out process usually isn't that easy, by design. But these emails, to my knowledge, do in fact come from the proper domain; Sears, Walmart, etc. are not going to use botnets to send their email ads.

Re:You are wrong (1)

adolf (21054) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967854)

This.

The question is not whether or not to bounce random unwanted mail, but how to bounce mail back to "mailing lists."

When I see "mailing list," the first thing I think of is listserv [wikipedia.org] and its cousins, not V ! 4 G R /\ spam.

I used to use this feature in Pine on a shared FreeBSD box about 16 years ago, and would still find it useful on occasion if it existed commonly today.

Re:You are wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967444)

He never said a word about spam, Mr. I-Must-Show-Everyone-How-Clever-I-Am.

Bounce==Backscatter (5, Insightful)

Skippy_kangaroo (850507) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967150)

Because the from address is invariably forged, you do nothing with a bounce. In fact, it's worse than nothing, because you create backscatter [wikipedia.org] . I have suffered from backscatter and it is a pain - it just multiplies the spam problem. So, could I request that you just stop it!

If you actually know the person who is sending you the email then you should try a more personal approach rather than a passive aggressive bounce.

Re:Bounce==Backscatter (1)

cloudmaster (10662) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967180)

/lacks mod points, so just commenting "thank you".

This is like taking all of your junk mail, writing "return to sender" on the outside, and shoving it in your neighbor's mailbox. Now it's wasted your time *and* your neighbor's time. Reject at the SMTP level with a proper spam filter, or just put the message in your own trash.

Re:Bounce==Backscatter (1)

silas_moeckel (234313) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967272)

Agreed it's much better to accept the email or not rather than this spam folder or bounce email BS. To do either creates backstatter or makes the system unreliable. Mail clients doing spam filtering is asinine the spam is already delivered do it on the server the mail client can help by reporting spam back to the server so it learns. Better for the odd false positive to get a near instant response that it was not delivered.

Re:Bounce==Backscatter (1)

flonker (526111) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967316)

Additionally real MTAs don't sent bounce messages anymore precisely because of the backscatter issue, and haven't for about ten years. (Of course there are always misconfigured systems.) Nobody will recognize the forged bounce as legitimate. So, sending a forged bounce will do nothing except annoy the poor sob who got Joe jobbed.

Re:Bounce==Backscatter (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967402)

This. The time to "bounce" mail ends when the first mail server (MTA, mail transfer agent) that is responsible for accepting mail to your domain has accepted the mail.

Re:Bounce==Backscatter (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967448)

Fuck 'em! If somebody throws a punch at me I punch him back. If you blame me for violence you're an idiot. Your argument is with the other guy not me. Good luck finding him.

Re:Bounce==Backscatter (1)

Mikkeles (698461) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967564)

Except the guy you're punching is the taxi driver who drove him to your location.

Re:Bounce==Backscatter (1)

freedumb2000 (966222) | more than 2 years ago | (#37968012)

Not even that, it's some random guy that has absolutely no connection to the issue whatsoever. You are basically sending mail to whatever random email address (usually form a spammers address list itself) is in the from field which is about the easiest thing to forge. If anything, a bounce should go to the sending MTA which will handle these things gracefully. I have enjoyed backscatter and it is no fun.

Re:Bounce==Backscatter (1)

lomedhi (801451) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967526)

More virtual mod points from me! This is the best advice.

alpine still supports it and runs on windows (3, Informative)

unrtst (777550) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967286)

alpine is also truly free software now.

FYI, alpine was pine. UW forked it, added a better build system, put it under a new license, released it as alpine, then discontinued development. The community has taken that and created the re-alpine project on sourceforge, where you can find the latest version. re-alpine [sourceforge.net]

Development continues, but isn't exactly what I'd call "active". But it's an ancient email client, and there's really not all that much that could be added. I still find it indispensable and use it constantly and I'm quite happy with it.

You never said you needed a windows-like UI, so this qualifies for the request, but YMMV.

Re:alpine still supports it and runs on windows (1)

psmears (629712) | more than 2 years ago | (#37968314)

Are you sure Alpine supports it? It may be there, but it's not a feature I've come across. (I do know there's a feature in Alpine called "bounce", but that does something different — that's basically the same as "forward", only it sends the mail entirely unchanged (as if it came from the original sender straight to the forwardee)).

Here's an idea. (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967300)

Since there hasn't been an "Ask Slashdot" that actually resulted in anything but a fucking e-penis flamefuckfest, how about you just eliminate the fucking thing altogether?

Don't do this. It's broken (1)

Copperhamster (1031604) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967350)

When you generate these faked bounces they are generated through your receiving mail server. Invariably, some of those bounces go back to spam trap email addresses that are used in forged headers, causing your ISP's mail server to be black listed.

I have plugged in a customer 'milter' in our mail server to block this 'feature' from working. (bounces that the server doesn't create get routed to /dev/null.)

Mailwasher (1)

garyoa1 (2067072) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967424)

Mailwasher does it. Can do it automatically so you won't even see it. But not free. http://tinyurl.com/6fprnb9 [tinyurl.com]

Seriously, guy, Kmail has not done this for years (5, Informative)

BlortHorc (305555) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967440)

At least since KDE 4, and from what I recall, maybe 3.4 or even 3.3, this feature was dropped.

Your time to bitch about it? That would be thataway.

Or use Thunderbird (1)

kilodelta (843627) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967468)

I just setup a mail template that essentially says "Undeliverable" and then setup a mail filter to auto-respond with that template if a certain person emailed me.

The text of the message is:

Your message to:{your email}
Was undeliverable. No further diagnostics available.
MTA-Intermail550

That last part, my provider uses Intermail so I looked up it's error codes and just used the 550 message.

This has legit uses for domain owners (3, Informative)

weave (48069) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967522)

I own a domain of (for example) example.org that I have wildcarded to my INBOX. I get A LOT of all sorts of interesting misdirected emails meant for exampleinc.org and example.org.au including invoices, meeting confirmation messages, and frantic "why aren't you answering my email messages"

In Mail.APP on the Mac I used to do a bounce and they'd see that they screwed up and stop. If I send a personal email explaining often people go ape shit and get paranoid wondering why I am reading their email. (Unfortunately Apple removed that functionality as well)

So sometimes a more impersonal response IS better.

ps, yeah, I know, I could fiddle with my MTA and have it refuse the repeat offenders.... and I do now. Not as convenient though.

Email bounce........ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37967674)

Mailwasher Pro used to do this too...http://www.mailwasher.net/frequently-asked-questions
There is a free version and paid version..

GOOD LUCK.

Fastmail (1)

Xenna (37238) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967802)

I doubt if it'll get you less spam, but manually bouncing mail is one of the many standard features of the Fastmail webclient. Runs on any platform that has a web browser.

I use it occasionally to get rid of humans...

Least effective method of reducing Spam possible (1)

penguinstorm (575341) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967846)

Apple pulled this from Mail with Lion for that reason. Spammers don't really care if your email is real or not. At least not much.

Closing the gate after the horse has bolted? (1)

aarggh (806617) | more than 2 years ago | (#37967898)

How does getting your email client trying to spoof a bounce, help when the upstream email server has ALREADY accepted the email as legitimate for delivery? As another user noted, your creating backscatter, and any email systems using basic SPAM filtering, will automatically drop the email from you.
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