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Linux Mint 12 to Blend GNOMEs 2 & 3

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the by-popular-demand dept.

GNOME 266

dartttt writes "Linux Mint 12 'Lisa' will come with its own customized desktop and it will be based on Gnome 3. The core desktop will be based on a series of Gnome Shell extensions called 'MGSE' (Mint Gnome Shell Extensions) that will provide a layer on top of Gnome 3. MGSE also includes additional extensions such as a media player indicator, and multiple enhancements to Gnome 3. Thus Linux Mint 12 will be more like a hybrid desktop balancing traditional desktop and new modern technologies."

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Not blending (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972532)

I didn't see any mention of "blending" gnome 2 into the new version. As far as I can tell, it will be a customized version of gnome 3, and gnome 2 will not be installed at all.

Re:Not blending (2, Informative)

Brad1138 (590148) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972876)

A very good synopsis can be found here [linuxmint.com] . It will incorporate MATE, a fork of Gnome 2.32.

Re:Not blending (2)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972964)

Both will be available but default will be GNOME Shell with Mint Extensions.

Re:Not blending (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973102)

Mint is wonderful. I have been very pleased, with 10 and 11.

The "Husse" fortunes, are a reason to switch, all on their own. ;-)

If they keep the network proxy controls from Gnome2 on Gnome 3, I will then be a happy man with 12.

Screenshots... (-1, Troll)

dev360 (2502476) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972544)

Thats how an early alpha build of MGSE will look like [evenweb.com] .

Re:Screenshots... (3, Informative)

nharmon (97591) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972568)

Goatse. Don't click

Re:Screenshots... (1)

sunderland56 (621843) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974150)

How do you know that isn't the default Mint 12 screensaver?

Re:Screenshots... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972570)

looks pretty cool. I'll be ditching ubuntu on all our production servers for linux mint.

Goatse above (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972574)

Srsly, it's a stale gag

Re:Goatse above (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973042)

At this point I'm having a hard time remembering what the big deal about goatse was.

Re:Goatse above (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37973506)

Christ, I hate to think about what kind of disturbing, depraved images you've seen that would make you jaded enough not to be repulsed by goatse! Sicko.

Re:Screenshots... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972580)

This links to goatse

i wonder (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972548)

will this be available up stream for oh say Ubuntu or will i have to switch distro? perhaps there could even be a unity variant.

Re:i wonder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972918)

someone will probably put it in a ppa, I find that's the best part about ubuntu, any distro can be configured to be like any other except only ubuntu has this excellent ppa system which makes installing other packages really easy

Re:i wonder (2)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972976)

Mint is just Ubuntu + additional repositories. Just add the Mint repos manually and you'll have it.
Once extensions.gnome.org is up and running, I guess the Mint Extensions will be hosted there for everybody.

Re:i wonder (5, Interesting)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973064)

Mint is, however LMDE isn't. I'm not sure how long Mint is going to remain around, seeing as it seems to be diverging from Ubuntu as it becomes more and more obvious that Canonical is batshit insane. At some point it's probably going to be less work for mint to just standardize itself around the Debian Edition.

Re:i wonder (2)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974082)

That Mint team has Debian releases, it shows they are planning for a Canonical-less future. I for one welcome our new Canonical/Ubuntu/Unity shunning overlords

Re:i wonder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37974528)

Ruby sucks and I bet you're just drenched in Axe body spray.

P.S. I don't care about Ubuntu/Unity/Gnome etc.

Re:i wonder (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974232)

Mint is, however LMDE isn't.

So? The question was whether the GS modifications from Mint will be available for Ubuntu. The answer was "Just add the Mint repos manually and you'll have it."
So why do you mention LMDE at all?

Re:i wonder (1)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973936)

will this be available up stream for oh say Ubuntu or will i have to switch distro? perhaps there could even be a unity variant.

I'm running Ubuntu 11.10 and installed Gnome. It installed Gnome3 and something called Gnome Classic. It has the same look and feel as Gnome2, but it's still Gnome3. In other words, I can't right click on the bar up top and add system monitors or any "widget" like items. I am able to drag applications up there, however, but as far as I can tell, that's about it.

I believe THIS [webupd8.org] is what I'm talking about.

Netbooks (2, Insightful)

Xanny (2500844) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972558)

Why don't they just fork the GNOME project into small and large form factors? That might be a misnomer - its more like close and far displays, because you would probably like a Gnome 3 style interface when you are 10 - 15' away from the screen. Hopefully the devs working on Unity and Gnome realize that end users just want customization. Nothing wrong with introducing start menu search and OSX style docks but let the user decide how they want their desktop configured, because you never know what they want. I use XFCE right now, but the lack of a built in global application search drives me insane, and the inability to get a Windows 7 / Unity esque task bar where I can pin applications rather than have duplicate quick launch / active windows buttons is a feature I miss. The inability to drag / drop apps to a panel is also extremely cumbersome. Then again, you can't really complain about all of the X desktop environments because you could just go fork the project and fix them yourselves if you didn't like something.

Re:Netbooks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972662)

Well. They already did: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=121162 Mate (as mate tea) Desktop Environment.
And a great summary from osnews (http://www.osnews.com/thread?495943). Quoting:
"Linux distros were so fragmented, and now, with this new desktop dilema, they become ever more fragmented and confusing. "

Re:Netbooks (1)

supersloshy (1273442) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972682)

Hopefully the devs working on Unity and Gnome realize that end users just want customization.

Then why is iOS so popular? It's certainly not because users can configure every little detail. It's because the interface is pleasing to use and doesn't require a lot of customization.

While GNOME's audience right now might be configuration-obsessed Linux users, they're trying to branch out into the audience that includes grandmas and teenagers with this new interface by making it simpler (in the long run, I mean, when people get used to it). I think that's as good of a goal as any, and it's only going to make GNOME more popular in the long run.

Re:Netbooks (2)

gbr (31010) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972722)

iOS is for my phone or my tablet. Not my computer.

Eventually, we'll want the same flexibility we've grown to enjoy on our computers, on our small devices. Then, iOS will not be acceptable anymore.

Re:Netbooks (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37974420)

I'm afraid that iOS is also the future for your macbook. Just like webapps the future for windows. Everything is moving to that kind of platform. Windows 8 also introduces a tablet like OS. I think everybody is moving towards the same kind of foundation. Traditional computing is going to change thanks to these devices.

Sure the desktop is going to be there, but it'll be better to have an OS that defaults to the most popular type of device while having the flexibility through extensions to modify it for other things.

Re:Netbooks (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972806)

This shows off a weakness in open source. The people who can make changes to the system are not necessary the ones who should make the decisions on what changes to make.
Half of the complains about GNOME 3 is just from a bunch of Old Farts who do not want to see anything change. The other half are from people who don't like the trade offs chosen to make it. This second half will try to make this hybrid and end up making something that will split the group again as still people will not like the trade offs chosen again.

Sometimes you just need to force the new version down the mouth. The old farts will always be there but they will end up liking it when GNOME 4 comes out. And the others will at some point find the tradeoffs wasn't so bad. The bloat after a PC upgrade isn't that big of a deal.

Re:Netbooks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37973518)

Remember KDE4? Wait until Gnome 3.6/3.8 and it'll be a thing of the past.

The only thing that worries me is the hostility. It does not appeal to a new user who sees such fights in some comments. If people kept it civil, it would be fine, but most are: "Gnome3/Untiy 5UCKSoRZ!!!1!!!!111 You dumb me good!!11" which just does not look right in the eyes of a newbie.

Also Unity is getting customizations in that next cycle (12.10), just after the LTS. They said they wanted them earlier in, but the team was to small and they had to get the features and bugfixes in first, later concentrate on that. Sorry, can't remember the post now, but I think it was the Canonical design blog.

--
B.

Re:Netbooks (2)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973716)

Nice try, but us Old Farts have and have enunciated very specific reasons why Unity and GNOME 3 are exactly the antithesis of why we use Linux based systems in the first place - we want multi-purpose machines for doing a variety of tasks, not "CLICK HEER 4 TEH LULZ" OSen.

So we won't "always be here", we'll be over there, having tucked-and-rolled off of the Canonical train wreck and switched to another distro. It's not like there's a paucity of choice.

Re:Netbooks (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974062)

I didn't even think it was a nice try, just a supercilious know-it-all.

Re:Netbooks (1)

Sri Ramkrishna (1856) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974486)

All you've enunciated is that you don't like it because it wasn't what you've been used to. I believe we went through this before with GNOME 1.x -> GNOME 2.x. Go back and look at that thread on slashdot and see if it doesn't sound like the same thing.

Re:Netbooks (1)

EasyTarget (43516) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973726)

See the post from Sancho below..

I'm not bothered by the fact is it changing (in fact I love it) or by the trade-offs (I dont see many anyway).

It's the dork defaults that I hate; starting with the hidden poweroff feature(*) and application switchers where users actually want application launchers.

(*) Dont tell me to use suspend; I have 3 current machines, with three industry-standard chipsets, none of them suspend then resume properly; neither did my previous thinkpad.. Suspend in Linux is basically broken at the kernel level for many common chipsets, and has been for years. It's obviously really obscure and hardware dependent, nobody knows how to fix it so the bugs get talked down in severity then marked 'wontfix'.
Basically: Any Gnome 3 defender who assumes suspend works for everyone is a ludicrous fantasist; try the following google search: "site:bugs.launchpad.net suspend" and note how many results there are; half a million! FFS.. Now try the same for poweroff; under 8 thousand.

Re:Netbooks (2, Insightful)

Sancho (17056) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972838)

Then why is iOS so popular?

Many on Slashdot would say that it's because iOS devices are status symbols. That real, discerning users use Android.

It's because the interface is pleasing to use and doesn't require a lot of customization.

Right. It is a sane set of defaults that work well for most people.

While GNOME's audience right now might be configuration-obsessed Linux users, they're trying to branch out into the audience that includes grandmas and teenagers with this new interface by making it simpler (in the long run, I mean, when people get used to it). I think that's as good of a goal as any, and it's only going to make GNOME more popular in the long run.

Only if they provide good, useful defaults. Low-configuration plus low-usability doesn't usually make something popular.

Re:Netbooks (1)

supersloshy (1273442) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973894)

Usability is relative. GNOME is very usable to me, even if it doesn't seem usable to you. Many GNOME developers like the new interface, too, from what I've read.

Re:Netbooks (1)

Sancho (17056) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974030)

Usability is relative.

Yes, but if you're going to reduce configurability, you damned well better design with usability for as many people as you can.

Many GNOME developers like the new interface

Developers ideas of usability may not align with users ideas of usability.

Re:Netbooks (1)

rhizome (115711) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974558)

Many GNOME developers like the new interface, too, from what I've read.

What a fascinating coincidence!

Re:Netbooks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972904)

iOS is popular because it has a monopoly on i devices. Can you get an iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch running something else?

It also runs on Cisco devices and that is a pretty big market too... wait, that is IOS, capital I.

Re:Netbooks (2)

advocate_one (662832) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972714)

Hopefully the devs working on Unity and Gnome realize that end users just want customization.

fat chance of that... they've been working to remove means of customisation from the user for a long time now... basically, it's the Gnome way, or else find something else instead...

Re:Netbooks (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973686)

basically, it's the Gnome way, or else find something else instead...

I went over to KDE when GNOME started pushing mono as their preferred technology for default applications. GNOME continues to make bad choices for my use cases.

I'm amazed by how many Slashdot computer geeks still feel a strong affinity for running whatever the distros set for a default in spite of the obvious long-term negative outlook.

Don't get me wrong - I have complaints about KDE, but they're normal complaints, not massive fundamental disastrous complaints.

Re:Netbooks (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973004)

Why don't they just fork the GNOME project into small and large form factors?

"Just fork"? If you think it's so easy to do to maintain a whole desktop environment, why don't you do it yourself?
How do you think that would be easier than Mint's route to write a handful of GS extension files and let upstream GNOME take care of the rest?

Re:Netbooks (1)

Sri Ramkrishna (1856) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974534)

Exactly. GNOME Extensions are pretty extensive. You could theoretically implement any user interface using it.

Re:Netbooks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37973416)

Why don't they just fork the GNOME project into small and large form factors?

Probably because they don't feel like having to maintain millions of lines of C code indefinitely. If you like Gnome 2 so much, you're welcome to attempt to maintain it.

A bit of common sense (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972572)

I will be moving desktops as soon as this comes out. This is the best thing about Gnome 3/Shell it's so configurable as it's written in Javascript. Needs to be as I want my normal desktop back.

2012 is now officially... (1)

lsolano (398432) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972576)

the year of the Linux HYBRID Desktop !

Screenshots... (-1, Troll)

dev362 (2502480) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972616)

Thats how an early alpha build of MGSE will look like [evenweb.com]

Re:Screenshots... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972638)

Goatse

Re:Screenshots... (4, Funny)

Atriqus (826899) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972920)

Again with the goatse? We get it guy, you're edgy and cool because you're ten years late to a meme.

Re:Screenshots... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972960)

That links to goatse. Don't click! If you actually want to see what it looks like, check out the blog post.

Yo dog... (2, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972640)

I herd you like linux on the desktop, so I put an unprecedented number of dubiously thought out desktops on your linux.

Unfortunately, that makes about as much sense as the current state of gnome and gnome-derived desktops...

Re:Yo dog... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37974222)

Next year will truly be the year of the Linux Desktop, at last!

Better, go straight to the source (5, Informative)

arielCo (995647) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972648)

http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851 [linuxmint.com]

Gnome 3 is shiny, elegant and modern looking. It’s a sleek desktop but it comes with a few problems:

  • It changes the way people use their computer
  • It’s application-centric, not task-centric (you switch between applications, not windows)
  • It doesn’t do multi-tasking well (you can’t see opened windows, system tray icons, etc..)

[...] So with this in mind, Gnome 3 in Linux Mint 12 needs to let you interact with your computer in two different ways: the traditional way, and the new way, and it’s up to you to decide which way you want to use.

For this, we developed “MGSE” (Mint Gnome Shell Extensions), which is a desktop layer on top of Gnome 3 that makes it possible for you to use Gnome 3 in a traditional way. You can disable all components within MGSE to get a pure Gnome 3 experience, or you can enable all of them to get a Gnome 3 desktop that is similar to what you’ve been using before. Of course you can also pick and only enable the components you like to design your own desktop.

The main features in MGSE are:

  • The bottom panel
  • The application menu
  • The window list
  • A task-centric desktop (i.e. you switch between windows, not applications)
  • Visible system tray icons

Re:Better, go straight to the source (0)

Jetsurf (2484066) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973508)

I really hope it all works out. Gnome 3 obviously sucks (and by the looks of it, the Mint team hates it as much as we do), but it looks like they are trying to "unsuck" it as much as they can.

Re:Better, go straight to the source (1)

666999 (999666) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973794)

Hope they can pull it off. Mint is a pleasure to use, for the most part.

Why the GNOME 3 hate? (1)

dyingtolive (1393037) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972658)

So pretty much all I use a GUI for is having multiple terminal windows open at once and being able to have access to a non-masochistic web browser. For this, I need a clean and lightweight UI. GNOME 3 works just fine in that regard. Other than "because it's different", why does everyone hate it?

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972706)

The interface sucks and it is a resource hog. Who had the bright idea to write a DE in Javascript?

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973040)

The interface sucks and it is a resource hog. Who had the bright idea to write a DE in Javascript?

GNOME Shell is not a resource hog at all. Even my low-end laptop can run it without any trouble.
And if you thing the GUI sucks: Modify the JS files and get a completely different work flow with minimal work. That's why writing a DE in JavaScript is a great idea and shipping modified JS files for GNOME Shell is exactly whet Mint 12 will do.

Qt/KDE go a similar route with QML (a JavaScript dialect). Plasma Active is already written completely in QML and with Plasma Desktop 4.8 some desktop components will be ported as well. QML/JS makes development easier and it makes customization by users and distributors easier.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (2)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973776)

And if you thing the GUI sucks: Modify the JS files and get a completely different work flow with minimal work.

Yeah, because every user wants to have to learn Javascript in order to fix a broken GUI.

Is this the real heart of the matter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37974038)

Periodically we seem to see a movement of, "I learned a new language and now we should rewrite everything using it!" It seems related to the second-system effect.

Since 1993, I've noticed this on Linux happen during peaks in the hype curves for C++, Perl, Python, Guile Scheme, Java, and now Javascript. If we count programming frameworks as languages, there are many more instances including the original GTK objects. Some of these started in the Unix or Linux space, while others started outside and spread in. In my view, Java is the worst of the worst, in terms of trying to rewrite everything non-Java as if it is curing the world's ills.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (3, Informative)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974200)

And if you thing the GUI sucks: Modify the JS files and get a completely different work flow with minimal work.

Yeah, because every user wants to have to learn Javascript in order to fix a broken GUI.

Idiot. RTFA!
JS makes it easy for distributors to modify the user experience. Users can just switch distributors (or wait for the official GNOME Shell Extensions website to go up).
Mint 12 will provide a very different GNOME 3 user experience in Mint 12 (that's what TFA is about!!) with minimal work required.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37973104)

The interface sucks and it is a resource hog. Who had the bright idea to write a DE in Javascript?

The same idiots that want to push a tablet ui on a desktop computer.

Slackware was RIGHT many years ago DITCHING gnome. No forks, no nothing just get the hell out of our distribution.
They nailed down pretty well the gnome devs as a band of egomaniacs without restraint that are destrying what little there is of the linux desktop.
If only, if only Debian had the balls to ditch Gnome 3 and use Gnustep as the default DE, for christ's sake even XFCE would be ok. Just not gnome.

You can see 2 trends in the linux community : corporate based distros that are all for fucking their user base for a misguided atempt to conquer the tablet market and don't give a shit about the user's needs. On the other hand we have community based distros that just don't have enough man power to keep a gnome 2 fork all by themselves so they are obliged to follow the stupid gnome 3 (as the case of Mint).
Lastly we have community based distros that have the manpower and clout to actually send a clear message about the fuck up that gnome 3 is but are doing nothing for fear of what ? Who the hells knows. Now is the time to send a clear message, and there is non other than Debian to send that kind of message.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972720)

1. Hard to start multiple terminal windows.
2. Hard to switch between multiple terminal windows (Alt+Tab is fatally broken).
3. All terminal windows are part of the same process (WTF?)

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (1)

SwedishPenguin (1035756) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972794)

1. Middle-click/right-click->open new window
2. Alt-<key above tab>
3. Sounds very odd, if it's really the case then there are alternatives to gnome-terminal...

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37973024)

>2. Alt-

Unacceptable.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (1)

Junta (36770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972862)

1. Ctrl-Alt-N
2. Alt-[key-above-tab], though two-tiered tabbing is a bit weirder, it can be more powerful in the face of many heterogenous windows.
3. This is not new to Gnome 3, gnome-terminal has been that way for a long time. I don't necessarily agree with this.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972954)

3. This is not new to Gnome 3, gnome-terminal has been that way for a long time. I don't necessarily agree with this.

Well, duh. In Gnome 2 you had the choice of opening terminal windows in a single process or opening multiple terminal windows. In Gnome 3 you're forced to open just one, which is a disaster for people who need to use the command line a lot.

If Mint fixes that too, then I guess I'll be dumping Ubuntu soon.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (2)

Junta (36770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973482)

In Gnome 3 you're forced to open just one,

Huh? gnome-terminal --disable-factory works in my gnome 3 and gnome 2 system identically. I'm unaware of another way to select all-in-one or distinct processes in either environment...

which is a disaster for people who need to use the command line a lot.

I get uncomfortable with the reliability implication of all my terminals being beholden to a single process as complex as gnome-terminal, but calling it a 'disaster' is a bit much. I currently have about 70 terminals open under a single process and it hasn't broken me. There *was* a file descriptor leak that was pretty nasty at one point, but with that addressed I haven't seen anything that afflicted me in practice, even if in theory it's a little less isolated than I would like.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (1)

drjones78 (961270) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973510)

* ctrl-enter (in activities)
* right-click -> new window (in activities)
* ctrl-n (from terminal)

C'mon people... learn to use the thing before you knock it.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (1)

jcupitt65 (68879) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972958)

For 1) I have a keyboard bind to open a new terminal window, and another to maximise vertically.

For 2) I use focus-follow-mouse and just drag over to a different window. On a laptop this is a tiny swipe of the thumb and does not interrupt your typing.

3) was a bit odd at first after spending years in xterm, but it's fine now. I can't remember the last time I had a problem with it.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (1)

drjones78 (961270) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973458)

Alt-tab works beautifully. Alt-~ switches between open windows of the same app. Its quite lovely. And there's two more way to start another terminal (or another window of any app) that others haven't mentioned:

1) Drag the terminal icon to the desktop you want to launch it on 2) Invoke activities screen, begin typing "terminal", then while terminal is highlighted.. brilliantly easy.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (3, Insightful)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973662)

no, that's brilliantly adding unnecessary steps to what should be a *single fucking click*, which is of course very dim-witted.

Lack of *accessible* configurability (2)

Junta (36770) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972844)

gnome-tweak-tool, despite being well out of the way, still offers very little in the way of customization.

customization requires people to put on a developer hat and write 'extensions'.

Despite all this time no one has restored 'search by window title' functionality (there is one, but it doesn't interact with the window preview view, which is still well behind the state of KDE or compiz). We also still don't have a 'preview all windows belonging to a single app' despite the lengths of having a 'dock' group windows together that provides an intuitive trigger for such a behavior (this behavior is in KDE and compiz).

I honestly would not mind the experience given a rich set of themes and those two particular behaviors added. On the flipside, I do know many people consider the overhead of the graphical strategy to be too much, and being told an even more resource intensive software OpenGL rendering engine is going to be the answer is just putting salt in the wound.

Re:Why the GNOME 3 hate? (1)

tpotus (1856224) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973992)

I thought I read somewhere that you can not in fact have more than one terminal window open. Haven't tried it myself, though.

Screenshots (-1, Troll)

dev365 (2502492) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972758)

Thats how an early alpha build of MGSE will look like [evenweb.com]

Re:Screenshots (2)

Atriqus (826899) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972828)

Goatse warning.

You only altered your nick by a character and posted the same message and link?.. I expect more from trolls. At least change up the wording or something. This is sheer laziness.

Re:Screenshots (1)

DemonGenius (2247652) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973022)

My habit of opening new pages in tabs that don't focus immediately has saved me this time. Thanks for the warning!

WARNING: ABOVE LINK IS DISGUSTING (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972986)

>>>>>>>> WARNING!!!!!!
As a warning to all, the link in the above post is disgusting and shocking. It pretty much ruined my day.
  WARNING !!!!!

Re:WARNING: ABOVE LINK IS DISGUSTING (2)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973114)

You must be new here.

Great idea, but I worry about the implementation.. (2)

seandiggity (992657) | more than 2 years ago | (#37972812)

I've been slowly switching to Linux Mint on my machines and I've found some pretty annoying bugs with the Gnome version of Mint that I didn't find in Ubuntu or Debian. It seems to me that the Mint devs may have already done too many customizations to the desktop. In some cases, I've moved to LXDE because it's more stable.

So, we'll see how this turns out, but there has to be a healthy community of devs around MGSE to deal with all the problems that will no doubt arise...as Gnome 3 begins to drift further away from the Gnome 2.x codebase, MGSE is gonna need to do more heavy lifting to keep everything working smoothly.

Re:Great idea, but I worry about the implementatio (1)

DemonGenius (2247652) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973192)

I actually see that the way Mint is now is how Ubuntu was when it was just beginning to gain in popularity. Give Mint time and eventually they will take the #1 spot from Ubuntu. I only hope that the Mint team doesn't eventually stop listening to users the way Canonical did.

Re:Great idea, but I worry about the implementatio (1)

seandiggity (992657) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973490)

I actually see that the way Mint is now is how Ubuntu was when it was just beginning to gain in popularity. Give Mint time and eventually they will take the #1 spot from Ubuntu. I only hope that the Mint team doesn't eventually stop listening to users the way Canonical did.

Mint's gain in popularity probably had a lot more to do with the fact that it bundled proprietary software, non-free drivers, etc. by default, since it was basically Ubuntu with different themes in the beginning. Now, I expect them to gain from Ubuntu's shift to Unity and (possibly) every other major distro's commitment to Gnome 3's new interface. So we'll see, but it really doesn't matter much...Debian-based systems are all good and very customizable, it's good to just have such a huge and healthy ecosystem.

Re:Great idea, but I worry about the implementatio (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973684)

No, Mint userbase jumped over 40% because of Canonical's poorly designed UI

Re:Great idea, but I worry about the implementatio (1)

thsths (31372) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973792)

> In some cases, I've moved to LXDE because it's more stable.

LXDE is a great option for a more traditional desktop. It is fast, light, and works very well. It may not be as pretty as Gnome 3, and it may lack some of the "social integration" of KDE 4, but it gets the job done. I use it on a number of light systems and in all my VMs.

the year old the linux desktop fragmentation (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37972908)

has everyone suddenly started using the desktop in a weird and wonderful way? i just use a menu to launch applications, and keep track of what's open in a taskbar. what was so wrong with that?

Re:the year old the linux desktop fragmentation (1, Flamebait)

rilles (1153657) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973098)

That is so yesterday you old fart.

Re:the year old the linux desktop fragmentation (2)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973984)

Even worse, how utterly mainframe era in thinking, to want to refine and make even more robust what is proven, to add new features without breaking backwards compatibility.

Note we're still in the era of the mainframe, the mainframe can run the latest software technologies (even can run GNU/Linux), can cluster and share storage and do distributed computing using latest tech, while also running decades old wares. There's a lesson there for the GNOME dev scatterbrains.

But will it run properly on two screens? (1)

mikehunt (225807) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973030)

I ditched Fedora when they introduced Gnome 3 as it simply does not run properly on two screens
and switched to Linux Mint.

I use my laptop's screen and an external monitor configured as separate X servers. This setup works
perfectly with Gnome 2 and is totally useless with Gnome 3.

So, anyone know if the next Linux Mint will support this?

Re:But will it run properly on two screens? (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974456)

Since the release candidate is coming out in a couple weeks, why don't you find out and contribute feedback/bug reports?

just using my first amendment (0)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973046)

i did not like kde-4.x when it was released and still dont like it, i dont like gnome-3.x either, if it was not for lightweight window managers like IceWM, Openbox, DWM & etc... i would abandon any enthusiasm i had left for computers

What can possibly go wrong? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37973066)

Stop posting "What can possibly go wrong?" on all articles that has anything to do with biotechnology. This is an article that deserves that tag if any.

As ever (5, Insightful)

AdmV0rl0n (98366) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973144)

Mint and its devs have had a bit of thought, and unlike some others I could mention actually have a core idea on what to give users. But then Mint has for quite a long time been a very good distro specifically for end users. And frankly, Linux needs at least one to be so.

So, in the next round of new Distro updates, Mint will again top the distrowatch charts, and deservedly so. The other distro's need to start taking note, becasue they think they are leading and others will follow. In truth, Mint is leading because Mint's process and view on users is ballpark correct, and many of distro's are off target.

As for Ubuntu and Unity. Well. Not much to be said there. They need to learn the lesson but seem to be determined to drop themselves down the distrowatch chart.

Re:As ever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37974418)

Mint and its devs have had a bit of thought, and unlike some others I could mention actually have a core idea on what to give users. But then Mint has for quite a long time been a very good distro specifically for end users. And frankly, Linux needs at least one to be so.

So, in the next round of new Distro updates, Mint will again top the distrowatch charts, and deservedly so. The other distro's need to start taking note, becasue they think they are leading and others will follow. In truth, Mint is leading because Mint's process and view on users is ballpark correct, and many of distro's are off target.

As for Ubuntu and Unity. Well. Not much to be said there. They need to learn the lesson but seem to be determined to drop themselves down the distrowatch chart.

You nailed it !!

Why wait for Linux Mint 12? (1)

Briareos (21163) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973202)

I'd rather have Tom Dickson tell us whether GNOME 2 and 3 blend or not...

News for Nerds . Stuff that Matters (1)

0-until-pink (202599) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973244)

Can I just say that, despite all the Gnome/ Unity bickering, it's nice to occasionally see Linux distro stories in Slashdot again and to read comments by users who use and embrace open source software at least occasionally (whatever their desktop preference). :)

Re:News for Nerds . Stuff that Matters (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37973438)

Thanks. I'd like to say that I want a desktop that is optimized for a mouse and keyboard combination (so no large tiles please) and a screen size of 13" and up. I'd like to stay with Ubuntu, but if they insist on optimizing for a 7" tablet, then I'll switch to Mint 12 in a heartbeat. As a user I don't really care if it's called Gnome, Unity, KDE, or something else.

The problem, of course, is applications. Once the major applications are going to develop under the assumption they run a tablet as well, there's going to be some difficulty using them on a traditional interface system.

Re:News for Nerds . Stuff that Matters (1)

Cndymn (724147) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974020)

Agreed!

Futility, thy name is MGSE (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37973394)

Just wait till the Gnome developers change the gnome-shell API that causes Mint's extension to break in a thousand pieces. You know it's going to happen because most of the core Gnome coders are arrogant assholes and won't tolerate an end-run around their design decisions.

Re:Futility, thy name is MGSE (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#37973428)

Just wait till the Gnome developers change the gnome-shell API that causes Mint's extension to break in a thousand pieces. You know it's going to happen because most of the core Gnome coders are arrogant assholes and won't tolerate an end-run around their design decisions.

Spot on +1.
The only way to make users win is not to play. Ditch Gnome.

Re:Futility, thy name is MGSE (2)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973824)

Not really a problem, their project will be forked off by people who want a useable well-designed UI. Those distros that give alternatives will grow. The arrogant GNOME assholes will find themselves twirling batons and holding banners and leading a parade of no one down the street, watched by a crowd of no one.

Skip the backwards, get on to KDE (2)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973724)

Skip the backwards, get on to KDE

Flamebait? No, not necessarily.

See "Sabayon 7 Review / Overview Kde +Gnome" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyBsUrxxEYk [youtube.com]

Sounds like Debian Squeeze (1)

leftie (667677) | more than 2 years ago | (#37973956)

Well... untested Debian Squeeze that needs to be debugged from scratch.
Why don't we quit mucking around and just go back to Debian? I finally figured that out.

W00t! Gnome looks like Win95 again (2, Insightful)

halfdan the black (638018) | more than 2 years ago | (#37974180)

What is the obsession with Windows 95 being the gold standard on which all desktop environments need to be based???

I for one really like Gnome 3 because it is finally no longer a Windows 95 clone like Gnome 2. I'm sorry to people whose first computer used Windows 95 or any of the other Windows 95 based desktops (like Windows 98, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, KDE or Gnome 2.x), folks there are other ways to use a computer.

So, Mint took Gnome 3, and made it look like Windows 95 again, freaking great!.
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