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Shanghai Government Proposes 100 Community Hackerspaces

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the let-100-flowers-bloom dept.

China 76

taweili writes "According to a tweet from Shanghai Morning Newspaper's Weibo account, the Shanghai Government Technology committee has issued a call for a proposal to build 100 community hackerspaces with government funding for equipment and a community managing the spaces. Hackerspaces have been growing rapidly in China since the first one, XinCheJian, was started in Shanghai last November as reported here by CNN Go. Currently there are three hackerspaces in China, with XinCheJian in Shanghai, Maxpace in Beijing and Chaihuo in Shenzhen. It looks like the governments are paying attention to the trend and are getting into supporting (or 'regulating') the movement."

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Frostbite? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38011720)

?!

Re:Frostbite? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38014324)

Just wear gloves, dumbass.

The translations need some work.... (1)

one cup of coffee (1623645) | more than 2 years ago | (#38011746)

But the XinCheJian and CNN Go links are perhaps worth checking.

New destination for the trailer. (4, Funny)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 2 years ago | (#38011766)

“You forget we're in China, there are tons of iPad clones available for a pittance in the local markets,” he says. “We modify them to match our specifications.”

Ah, to be free. Chinese couldn't be any more difficult to learn than Australian. Could it?

Re:New destination for the trailer. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38012086)

you take that "freedom" and all that comes with it. i'll be quite happy here in the west

Re:New destination for the trailer. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38012446)

you take that "freedom" and all that comes with it. i'll be blissfully unaware here in the west

FTFY.

Re:New destination for the trailer. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38012492)

No, not really. I'd rather be in the west than deal with all the shit Chinese people have to deal with.

Re:New destination for the trailer. (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014340)

You no like City Sushi?

Re:New destination for the trailer. (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012892)

No, not really. China is not more free than the west, its citizens just give up different freedoms. I prefer the freedoms that I have and would have to give up to live in China to the ones I lack and would gain. Of course, a large part of that is due to cultural indoctrination during my childhood, but that doesn't alter the fact of my preference.

Re:New destination for the trailer. (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012998)

I'm very "Western". But - I look at this, and I wonder if that attitude will be worth much in years to come. Face it - our laws have innovators tied in knots in America. If Joe Blow comes up with something unique and exciting, he faces patent suits from Apple, Microsoft, SCO, and any number of lesser known patent trolls. In China, the government is actually getting behind these people who want to hack stuff.

Freedom? I'm watching ours being eroded, while the Chinese are beginning to explore their freedoms. Why do I feel like I'm being left behind?

Re:New destination for the trailer. (1)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014304)

In order to gain freedom, one has first to not have it. That cost the Chinese are still paying. Conversely in order to lose freedom one first has to have it. If you're not fighting for it, you're the problem. I didn't vote for any incumbents last Tuesday. Vote for third party candidates, vote for people who will actually repeal and reform instead of adding more and more layers of bullshit legislation and regulation that nobody needs, that our once successful society used to do very well without. We're becoming sclerotic at our own hands, pissing away everything we ever had for some false shadow of 'security'.

Re:New destination for the trailer. (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 2 years ago | (#38019500)

Good post, ElectricTurtle. And, that is the reason I send letters to the White House, congress, ICE, and other places. Hell, I haven't flown in years - but I imagine that if I tried to board an international flight, I'd probably find that I'm on a watch list - if not the "No fly" list!

I've got a bad attitude. That comes from not being afraid of the bastards! The worst they can do is to kill you, and they can only do that once. Being dead is better than living in fear, IMO.

China (1)

kaoshin (110328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38011882)

They have space left there?

Re:China (1)

Pope (17780) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012564)

When I was in Shanghai a few years ago, they had whole empty towns built outside the main city area, just waiting to be filled.

Re:China (2)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012926)

Shanghai is big, 23+ Million and growing. But yes it is true. Property value is still increasing all while there are entire living units unpopulated. That's because as a resource, the government decides when to release them into the market. There's profit in scarcity. From a tax collection and population control perspective, the government still wants to control the first sale of availability. After that (from what my wife has told me), people are free to sell their existing unit to other buyers at market price. So the question many have is this. Why build so many homes (buildings) if there isn't a demand? To the west, that's a waste of resources and thus counter productive against market forces. But to China, they like build in phases all while still controlling supply and demand to an extent. It's inefficient because frankly, their government is inefficient. So ironically, the system works well for what it is. Relatively speaking that is.

Re:China (1)

Herkum01 (592704) | more than 2 years ago | (#38013146)

China is doing the exact same thing that Japan did in the 90's. Banks are offering loans to create make work projects for which they will never get repaid. Eventually it will bite them just like it did with Japan.

That somehow that this is just working fine is fairy tale thinking.

Re:China (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 2 years ago | (#38013320)

Yes, I agree. But in China's case (god help them), the situation is far far worse. Funny thing is, it was working fine six years go based on then future projections of the global and local markets. Today is an entirely different story. I have no idea why the government continues to build living space in Shanghai though. But if I had to guess, they're thinking in terms of economy of scale. Again a continuation of a "phase" not yet completed as originally scoped out. After all, the buildings are nothing more than poured concrete with the walls acting as load bearing structures for each floor. Conduits and all encased forever. It's also why all new or replacement wiring is tacked on the outside of a plastered wall. It's ugly as sin if you ask me.

Re:China (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38013596)

Not necessarily. While China probably won't expand economy much on increasing demand of foreign markets anymore, they will based on demand fuelled by their own organic growth - industrialisation, urbanisation and rising standard. They are pumping a lot of money into sectors such as housing precisely to sustain phenomena such as urbanisation.
It is of course a risk. If they don't produce enough growth (in the world that is struck by a very severe crysis), they will end up with a lot of unrepayable debt, like struggling economies of Japan and the west. If they do, and later manage to (long-term) lower the amount of debt, they have road open to advanced society that will start matching their western counterparts (and also dwarf them by size). What they have for sure is a lot of accumulated cash to continue pumping in for a while. They could print money and get rid of the USD/euro surplus at the same time as a control of monetary policy, but for now they don't as US is printing money too fast, maybe as a countermeasure to China. For China it's maybe too early to let go of a cheap manufacture politics, but should prepare for it sooner than later.

Just one tiny difference (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014272)

There were NOT 1 billion plus Japanese.

Re:China (2)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014374)

Banks are offering loans to create make work projects for which they will never get repaid.

From what I've heard on TV shows, it's exactly what happened in the USA.

Re:China (1)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014396)

Japan isn't exactly crumbling into violent oblivion, so in other words it will be a bump in the road that a few people will bemoan and then get back to life as usual?

The problem with China isn't construction projects or lending per se, it's that farmer Wang is having his land seized by corrupt officials for said projects. More and more peasant farmers in China are being driven off of their land with minimal compensation, and it's sowing unrest. Rural unrest among farmers is where every popular uprising in China has ever originated. If they keep it up there could be a civil war, especially if the world economic crisis negates the growth that China has come to rely on.

Re:China (1)

korean.ian (1264578) | more than 2 years ago | (#38016014)

The Chinese government needs to do like the South Korean government and buy the land from the farmers - create a whole new class of nouveau riche that are willing to consume like mad.

Re:China (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014352)

No, that's why they're hacking it to get more.

Bizarro world (3, Insightful)

dyingtolive (1393037) | more than 2 years ago | (#38011898)

China, land of innovation and engineering.
USA, land of draconian restrictions and propaganda.

Re:Bizarro world (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38012082)

Government should help these guys do patents for stuff they invent, and finance filing of those patents in major markets. By heaviliy investing in R&D everywhere and seeking protection, Chinese will out-smart protectionist politics of the west (which is certainly targeted to quash emerging competition and keep existing tech giants in key market position).

Re:Bizarro world (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38012132)

China, land of innovation and engineering.

USA, land of draconian restrictions and propaganda.

Wait, what?

Do you think those Chinese "hackerspaces" are going to be available without strings attached? Do you honestly think they won't be monitored, censored, and otherwise strictly controlled?

Or are you being "ironic" with "satire"? I can't tell. "Irony" and "satire" has been so overused these days, I don't know what the fuck to think anymore.

Re:Bizarro world (4, Insightful)

dyingtolive (1393037) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012200)

China, land of innovation and engineering.

USA, land of draconian restrictions and propaganda.

Wait, what?

Do you think those Chinese "hackerspaces" are going to be available without strings attached? Do you honestly think they won't be monitored, censored, and otherwise strictly controlled?

Absolutely. I might even be okay with that here, depending upon the nature of the strings. Anything to promote science and engineering again and maybe give the kids something to do outside of watching TV.

Or are you being "ironic" with "satire"? I can't tell. "Irony" and "satire" has been so overused these days, I don't know what the fuck to think anymore.

Frankly, I can't even tell, and I wrote it. :(

Re:Bizarro world (1)

GPLHost-Thomas (1330431) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012714)

Do you think those Chinese "hackerspaces" are going to be available without strings attached? Do you honestly think they won't be monitored, censored, and otherwise strictly controlled?

This is a FACT, at least for Xinchejian.

Re:Bizarro world (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38018114)

Do you think those Chinese "hackerspaces" are going to be available without strings attached? Do you honestly think they won't be monitored, censored, and otherwise strictly controlled?

This is a FACT, at least for Xinchejian.

Actually I think you'll find it's two questions.

Re:Bizarro world (3, Insightful)

ArhcAngel (247594) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012480)

China, land of innovation and engineering.

USA, land of draconian restrictions and propaganda.

USA, land of engineering AND draconian restrictions and propaganda AND a minimum wage higher than China.

China, land of cheap labor for manufacturing products based on designs engineered in US.

Re:Bizarro world (1)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | more than 2 years ago | (#38017056)

Chinese 'engineering' is like their idea of 'R&D' which is what we would call copying and theft.

Re:Bizarro world (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#38013944)

Yes, have you seen the latest processors, stealth fighters, and trains produced by China? Oh wait, its the west that does all that stuff well.

China is making big strides, but acting like the west isnt leading in most technology areas is just ridiculous. High-tech is what we do BEST.

Re:Bizarro world (2)

dyingtolive (1393037) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014718)

I would say that High-tech is what corporations do best, not us. Remember the corporation is only here because it's convenient to them; there's no "Magic Western Civilization Fairy" keeping them here. China could replace us, and all we have to do is sit by waiting for it to happen. We're too busy fighting ourselves over whether specific plants and certain relationships are moral or not. When was the last time you heard someone encourage someone to read a book or try something new? We suffer from major cultural hubris, and that's going to catch up with us quickly.

Re:Bizarro world (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38016928)

When was the last time you heard someone encourage someone to read a book?

Right here [youtube.com]

Re:Bizarro world (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#38017420)

I would say that High-tech is what corporations do best, not us. Remember the corporation is only here because it's convenient to them; there's no "Magic Western Civilization Fairy" keeping them here. China could replace us,

All of the top microprocessor firms are US-based: Intel, AMD, the former ATI, nVidia. All of the top router companies are US-based: Cisco, Juniper (Alcatel-Lucent is also western, but based in France). All of the major OS efforts are based in the west: BSD, Linux, Windows, Unix, OSX-- all came out of the west, and the biggest of those on a consumer level (Windows, OSX) are both US based. All of the major web browsers, and the major plugins (IE, Firefox, Chrome, Flash, Silverlight, Java, Quicktime) are US based (only Opera is from outside the US, and that too is western).

I could go on and on. You say theres nothing keeping them here, but here they were founded and here they stay. There are a few in the east, but by and large they are in South Korea or Japan, which are quite western.

They are growing, and perhaps they will continue to do so until they too are major world innovators, but pretending that they are NOW is just not true.

Re:Bizarro world (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38018386)

All the US has these days is ideas and 'intellectual property', i'd say soon China won't need American 'intellectual property', they will develop their own (it's already happening [wsj.com] ) and the US will fall into obsolescence. 'Made in USA' has already been replaced with 'Designed in USA'.

Re:Bizarro world (1)

vik (17857) | more than 2 years ago | (#38015202)

Like the famous US maglev train, and the amazing US manned space fleet? We get to see who p0wns the top 10 supercomputers tomorrow. China has more engineering graduates than the US has graduates, and real currency to back them up with.

Re:Bizarro world (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#38017446)

You mean the Maglev that was constructed by Siemens? Yea, thats totally Chinese technology.

You will find that most of the best examples of technology in China are either based off of western tech, or implemented by western companies.

first link - bad translation (1)

SemperUbi (673908) | more than 2 years ago | (#38011922)

A lot is getting lost in translation:

"[Shanghai is the proposed "innovation house" to promote public hands lathe machine tool has everything you will] newspaper reported use of machine tools, lathe? Are not interested in DIY a stool? Shanghai Science and Technology Commission plans to "second five" during the construction of 100 "innovation house", each area of not less than 100 square meters, equipped with wood lathes, metal lathes, saws and drill grinding combined machine, milling machine and other tools, the first streets in the four pilot projects."

Regulating more likely (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38011970)

Anyone know if the Great Firewall of China blocks sites like:

http://www.cncguns.com/ [cncguns.com]

Re:Regulating more likely (1)

GPLHost-Thomas (1330431) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014474)

It does (at least for this site).

What the hell... (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38012058)

...is a "hackerspace".

Re:What the hell... (3, Informative)

cyfer2000 (548592) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012622)

I went to the Chinese page and it turned out to be "innovation studio" or "idea studio".

Re:What the hell... (1)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | more than 2 years ago | (#38017104)

'Innovation' appears to be how well they can copy western tech (and related).

http://www.ruijienetworks.com/about/MarketStatus.aspx [ruijienetworks.com]

Ruijie claims to be getting government awards for being innovative but they actually have copy and paste of Juniper pictures and text on their website.

Re:What the hell... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38013956)

Basically a common workshop for a club.

Re:What the hell... (3, Informative)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014406)

hackerspaces.org [hackerspaces.org] .

Re:What the hell... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38019834)

Agreed -- summaries that assume, hipster-style, that the reader knows some obscure or newly-contrived term or name breed contempt with me too.

Re:What the hell... (2)

kubernet3s (1954672) | more than 2 years ago | (#38020104)

it's a dedicated e-zone of the cybernet, designed for so called "renegade" code warriors to manufacture, pure unadulterated digistreams and unleash them on the unsuspecting infosphere, jacking into nodes, disabling linkups, and rerouting mainframes and wreaking havoc across the netverse

If it were the USA... (1, Redundant)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012062)

If it were the USA each would need a patent lawyer to make sure nobody made something tablet shaped, with buttons that can be clicked more than once [slashdot.org] , had wheels [newscientist.com] or anything else covered by patents.

Re:If it were the USA... (1)

ZeroSumHappiness (1710320) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012414)

Making for personal use and research is protected. It's only if you then attempt to sell the product that patent law comes into play. So if this is all for personal use patents don't matter.

Re:If it were the USA... (2)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012574)

Making for personal use and research is protected.

I don't believe it is

Brown & Michaels Frequently Asked Questions on PATENTS [bpmlegal.com] says: "It [A patent] is a right to stop others from making, using or selling - any one of these. Thus, even if an infringer were to make the invention in a foreign country, he could not sell it in the USA. Similarly, it is still an infringement if the invention is made in this country but exported immediately, or if a person buys the invention overseas and uses it in the USA for their own use - there is no "personal use" exception for patent infringement.

ehow.com [ehow.com] says: "Fair Use with Patent Law
There is no equivalent law for patents to the U.S. fair use clause which applies to copyright. Other countries have a patent law with similar applications, but there is no provision that allows a general exemption from liability when using a patent without obtaining a license from the patent holder.

Re:If it were the USA... (1)

ZeroSumHappiness (1710320) | more than 2 years ago | (#38013198)

I stand corrected.

Re:If it were the USA... (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012948)

Not in law. There is in practice, because patent lawsuits are generally based on actual losses, and it's hard to demonstrate that you've made a real loss from someone making something for personal use. The cost of the lawsuit would generally be prohibitive, especially when combined with the bad PR that it would cause.

Now here is something for the west to copy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38012076)

Now here is something for the west to copy.

Is this going to work? (4, Insightful)

BigSlowTarget (325940) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012128)

My experience with hackerspaces and government officials is that they really don't think the same way. One is all about breaking the rules and the other is all about living within them. I suppose it's possible for government to fund them and let them loose but it is certainly out of character. Big money tends to draw corruption too and that's death to a knowledge sharing environment.

Re:Is this going to work? (2)

ArhcAngel (247594) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012544)

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Why try figuring out who the hackers are when you can befriend them and let them expose themselves to you (yes you read that right). That way the next time there is a crackdown it can be more surgical.

Re:Is this going to work? (1)

schlachter (862210) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014394)

better to keep your enemies close...by building them spaces where they can do there thing, fully observed and understood.

China is run by an engineer (2)

melted (227442) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014566)

China is run by an engineer. The US is run by a not-terribly-successful lawyer. That's all you need to know. I bet Obama (let alone his predecessors) doesn't even know what a "hackerspace" is and what it could be useful for.

Re:Is this going to work? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38022750)

Not out of character at all. Look at the experience of the religious community, the labor community, and just about every other type of community which could organize in China. Those who do not accept government control (more precisely, Communist Party control) of their community, get the axe (often literally). Google for "house Christians" and "Falun Gong" and "Dalai Lama" for recent examples. Those who do, get their community stifled, along with whatever urge to organize outside of government control might still remain.

Apparently their hope is to co-opt and subvert the hackerspace impulse. Given their results with Falun Gong, I expect less than outright success.

It's just dumb (-1, Flamebait)

pighead77 (1315131) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012530)

If the title reads "Shanghai Government proposes 100 community DIY labs", guess it wouldn't even make to /. front page, would it? You really have to, must, can't resist to, put these politically right and sensationally arousing words together: china, hack, spy, war, thief, communist, rights, in every single f*** post about china, would you? /. editors, thought you could be better, but realize you're the same kind Christmas hating, Happy Holiday saying, China hating, freedom fighter (at long as agreeing with me) loving, terrorist (as soon as not agreeing w/ me) bashing, bunch of brainwashed sheep.

Re:It's just dumb (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38013816)

You appear to be operating under the misapprehension that 'hackerspace' is a negative term. Quite the contrary, there are plenty of self-described hackerspaces in the US.

Re:It's just dumb (1)

AdamThor (995520) | more than 2 years ago | (#38013982)

You know that "hackerspace" is an already existing term, right? /. mods didn't choose to mash together "china" with "hacker" in this article based on some agenda. It's an existing thing that already has a name, and some are in China.

http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Hackerspaces [hackerspaces.org]

China needs to do some thing about there copys (0)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012540)

China needs to do some thing about there cheap knockoff copy's of others stuff.

And what makes you think if some one in this space does some thing that china does not like that they well will live to much longer the gov can make there death look like accidents and then say the hacker spaces need people on site to make them safer (read cops ready to stop some from thinning the wrong way)

Re:China needs to do some thing about there copys (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38012738)

China needs to do some thing about there cheap knockoff copy's of others stuff.

And what makes you think if some one in this space does some thing that china does not like that they well will live to much longer the gov can make there death look like accidents and then say the hacker spaces need people on site to make them safer (read cops ready to stop some from thinning the wrong way)

The U.S. needs to do something about their educational system if they want to stay in the game.
China doesn't have to do anything, especially not care about foreign patents.
They are eating your lunch and there is nothing you can do about it until you are willing to work twice as hard for half the wage. Whining about rules and rights is not going to take you anywhere.

Re:China needs to do some thing about there copys (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38014224)

No China needs to fix there educational system as well IT's all about the BIG TEST OVER THERE and in there higher end there is a LOT OF CHEATING and copys of others work, must be why they are so good at copy others work to bad they also look for ways to cut corners and what did that get them a unsafe high speed rail systems where after a crash there was a race to cover up and get the line moving over looking for people still alive.

Re:China needs to do some thing about there copys (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38021834)

Excatly. Funny how some people think that everybody has to follow what's on the US agenda.

its going to be interesting development (1)

nihaopaul (782885) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012560)

planning/thinking and action are two different things, we've witnessed a lot of thinking at XinCheJian..

Re:its going to be interesting development (1)

nihaopaul (782885) | more than 2 years ago | (#38013466)

"we've been forked" - cool

slashdoted (1)

GPLHost-Thomas (1330431) | more than 2 years ago | (#38012658)

FUCK! I sponsor the hosting for xinchejian.com, I wasn't expected it to be slashdoted ... :(

Re:slashdoted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38013046)

Oh well, if you need help let me know.

Lawrence / Computer Solutions dot cn

Re:slashdoted (1)

nihaopaul (782885) | more than 2 years ago | (#38013290)

just added in a proxy thomas, waiting for the primary dns to get updated... thanks though :)

Good Idea (1)

AdamThor (995520) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014102)

Hey, can I get some of that over here? Subsidizing a group to foster technical innovation in the general population is just what this country needs. I'd totally join a hackerspace, but the $50+ / month doesn't sound like a good deal to me. If gov't spending were to bring that down then maybe I'd be ready to join, and who knows what could happen from there?

Re:Good Idea (1)

nihaopaul (782885) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014198)

in a way it's a super cheap education..

Re:Good Idea (1)

halsathome (118120) | more than 2 years ago | (#38021022)

Just scrolled through the list at http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/List_of_ALL_hackerspaces [hackerspaces.org] . Took a peak at a couple of the active ones in Norway, and they are operated by university level student societies. See a potential for hackerspace ranges: open-closed/simple-advanced/chaotic-orderly. Would be a nice fit as a "club" type thing in college aswell.

This hackerspace: http://sonen.ifi.uio.no/ [ifi.uio.no] in Oslo apparently does "education fair" type work at http://www.gathering.org/ [gathering.org] everey year.

We are building a new library with a "Newton room" in my home town, just across the road from the local college. The potential here is huge. Just have to find the time to goad some people into supporting this before my boy turns 15 ;->

bad translation (1)

oaf2 (2504958) | more than 2 years ago | (#38014736)

From what I can tell the original announcement was about creating incubators for start up companies. Don't know who said it should be translated hackerspace.

tweet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38023434)

tweet? china banned twitter....

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