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The Elder Scrolls Return With Skyrim

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the my-horse-could-really-use-some-armor dept.

Role Playing (Games) 158

Today marks the release of Skyrim, the fifth installment of Bethesda's The Elder Scrolls series. The game is set about 200 years after the events of Oblivion, at which point the province of Skyrim is embroiled in a civil war, and dragons roam the skies. Early reviews for the game have been largely complimentary — one at Rock, Paper, Shotgun artfully details all the things the reviewer hasn't yet done, despite playing the game for over 30 hours. Quoting: "I seriously worried Skyrim would, for all its talk of lavishness, depth and dragons, continue the transformation into a trudging, consolified action game filled with clunky acting. It does not. It slams on the brakes then reverses at dangerous speed back into Morrowind territory. Some things are lost (e.g. Persuasion is a sadly watered-down, irregular affair now mostly to do with shopping), many things are changed (e.g. recharging magic items can be done anywhere) and it’s certainly not as weird (no flying or Siltstriders), but it truly reclaims that sense of being in another world, rather than a generic soft-focus, over-familiar fantasyscape." An addendum goes into more detail on the specifics. If you're curious how the game looks in action, Giant Bomb has posted a ~52-minute quick-look video with commentary.

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My favorite quick look so far... (5, Funny)

RyanFenton (230700) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025148)

Elder's Scrolls games are timeless experiences for their bugs and exploits as much as for their gameplay. Here's a simply wonderful example:

A beutiful expoit [youtube.com]

Ryan Fenton

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025268)

I'm generally of the opinion that exploits in single player games are only a problem for people who are such gigantic assholes they can't help but fuck themselves over. The game does seem to have its share of legitimate bugs too though, but that's not all that surprising for a game of its scope. The important ones will get worked out in time though, and it's still an impressive game.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (5, Interesting)

Moryath (553296) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025374)

What worries me more is that nobody's yet fully commented on whether they finally fixed the leveling system.

What I mean by that: the way to play Morrowind and Oblivion was to build a "custom" character class designed specifically to AVOID leveling up, with certain major skills deliberately left aside to only be used (hand-to-hand, shield, etc) when you were ready to sit down and level. Otherwise, you'd screw your stats by leveling too fast, too hard, with too many skills left in the dust until you found yourself facing enemies that were far too powerful for you to handle.

The reason Fallout 3 and New Vegas worked so well in the Oblivion engine is that they went with an XP-based leveling system. Players didn't have to worry about avoiding leveling, because you can't avoid leveling. You just play the game, play your character, and enjoy.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (5, Insightful)

Johnny5000 (451029) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025438)

What I mean by that: the way to play Morrowind and Oblivion was to build a "custom" character class designed specifically to AVOID leveling up, with certain major skills deliberately left aside to only be used (hand-to-hand, shield, etc) when you were ready to sit down and level. Otherwise, you'd screw your stats by leveling too fast, too hard, with too many skills left in the dust until you found yourself facing enemies that were far too powerful for you to handle.

IIRC, Morrowind didn't have monsters that leveled up with you. It had it's own set of leveling issues, like it became impossible to level up any more or increase stats beyond a certain point, but I was able to play and enjoy Morrowind without focusing too much on gaming the leveling system.

With Oblivion, I completely screwed up a few games and wasted many hours by leveling "incorrectly" and running into exactly the problem you described. Plus I generally disliked the idea of leveling up but the monsters kept up with me- why bother leveling up if I'm just going to be running in place?

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (5, Funny)

CmdrPony (2505686) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025576)

Well I think it's a nice addition that when you die, your levels and skills will be gone too. It makes the dieing much more persistent, constant threat, especially if you're mining in caves. You also have to eat food, so building a house with a farm should be done first. As much as people say that Notch is a lazy developer, I think he has done some good job with this game.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026002)

Who are you talking to? I just pulled from context you are talking about minecraft, but nobody in this thread seems to be except you?

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (3, Informative)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026256)

It's a troll, based on the stupid "Scrolls" (Notch) vs. "Elder Scrolls" (BSW) lawsuit.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

Lyrata (1900038) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026538)

Humor is trolling now? I thought it was funny, but these days you can't be sarcastic on the internet without living under a bridge I guess.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38027952)

No, but it helps to have a sense of humor... because that whole clusterfuck is quite simply not funny.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026974)

Would someone please mod down to "Oblivion" these lame ass fanboy wankers who post trollish shit like this? Thanks!

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (2)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026560)

So, they changed some of the leveling. I haven't played it yet... but, as an example, when you enter a dungeon/cave/area/whatever, as I understand it, your level is "locked." Bad guys are generated/leveled/whatever to match your current level when you *first* enter. If you come back later with +5 levels, the bad guys are still at your original level.

This seems like, on paper, it'd work as a nice little compromise. The bandit cave you enter at level 5 will be a piece of cake if you go back at level 15.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (3, Interesting)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025452)

They've all but removed classes. You can gain a boost to one of three classes of skills (Mage, Thief or Fighter) and using them skills them up faster, so if you use magic you get better at it (and level up) and if you use Melee and Armour those level up faster.

Not yet convinced it's the best way, but it's not exploitable in the same way Oblivions was.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

LoudNoiseElitist (1016584) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025780)

Morrowind enemies definitely didn't scale. Hell, by the time I got around to the main quest, I ended up killing Dagoth Ur in a few hits *without disabling his shield*.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (2)

digitig (1056110) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026588)

Some did, some didn't. But the key point is that none of them did mid-encounter.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

pwizard2 (920421) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026144)

Otherwise, you'd screw your stats by leveling too fast, too hard, with too many skills left in the dust until you found yourself facing enemies that were far too powerful for you to handle.

Exactly. For that reason I always played Oblivion with stealth-focused character classes rather than turning myself into a tank hack-and-slash character. With a high marksman and stealth (plus lots and lots of damage-health poison... gotta get that alchemy skill up early in the game) I could ambush enemies and get lots of sneak kills really easily. Even powerful enemies go down quickly if you can get them with sneak attack critical+powerful weapon+damage per second poison.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38027588)

What I mean by that: the way to play Morrowind and Oblivion was to build a "custom" character class designed specifically to AVOID leveling up, with certain major skills deliberately left aside to only be used (hand-to-hand, shield, etc) when you were ready to sit down and level. Otherwise, you'd screw your stats by leveling too fast, too hard, with too many skills left in the dust until you found yourself facing enemies that were far too powerful for you to handle.

That was not a problem with Morrowind, for two reasons.

First and more obvious - enemy levels don't scale up in Morrowind. If you come back to the starting areas at level 20, you'd still be killing mudcrabs and scamps. On the other hand, you could head straight for the nearby daedric shrine if you wanted. In fact, if you can survive a fight with a bunch of high-level daedra (very tough but possible), you could get a nice set of daedric gear at level 1, which would in turn make the rest of the game that much easier.

The second reason is due to different level-up mechanic in Morrowind. In Oblivion, once you've upgraded enough skills by practicing to get a new level, the skills that you've practiced up until that moment decide stat multipliers when you distribute level-up points between your stat. E.g. if you've gained a level by getting 10 points in Athletics, you'll get a 5x multiplier for Speed, but 1x multiplier for all other stats. If you leveled by getting 5 points in Athletics and 5 points in Conjuration, you'd get 3x for Speed and 3x for Intelligence. However, if you don't level up when you're given the chance, but keep practicing and gaining skill points instead, those skill points do not count against your pending level. So if you got 10 points in Athletics (and have a level-up pending), and then got 5 more points in Conjuration before taking that level-up, you will only get 5x Speed, not 3x Intelligence. Those Conjuration points will only apply at the next level.

Morrowind works the same, except for that last part - all skill points that were earned before you accept the level up are accounted for, not only those that were earned before you filled up the 10-point experience bar. Thus, in Morrowind, you could increase three different skills by 10 points each before levelling up, and actually get a 5x multiplier for each of the corresponding stats. If you did that, you'd be more powerful for a given level, since skills and stats are what actually matter, not levels. That said, the only sense in which it actually mattered in Morrowind is if you wanted to maximize your final skill points before hitting the level cap, since level of your enemies didn't scale to yours.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025382)

I'm generally of the opinion that exploits in single player games are only a problem for people who are such gigantic assholes they can't help but fuck themselves over.

It's not a problem even then. If you enjoy buying books of puzzles, looking up the answers, and writing them in then you'll probably enjoy these 'exploits' too and while it might seem a bit weird to the rest of us there's nothing actually wrong with it. Of course, if you don't enjoy doing that then don't do it.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (4, Informative)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025300)

As much as I love Bethesda games, I won't buy them at launch because they are famous for ridiculous bugs. I also recommend buying them on PC so you can install community bug fixes as well.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (0)

ifrag (984323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025402)

Yep, this exactly. As much as I want to play it, I know from past experience buying it right now is a risky chance to take, and could taint the whole experience.

To confirm this, I at least took a look over at the Bethesda support forum, and it's most certainly all there. Crash to desktop, choppy framerate on extreme hardware, game freezes, sound issues... the list goes on.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (2)

Mindcontrolled (1388007) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025498)

I do say the same thing every time. Then I can't help myself. Installing right now...

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (0)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025570)

Mouse lag is apparently bad in the PC version as well. Where you click doesn't match where the cursor is showing on the screen.

The question is whether or not I watch 1 month for a decent patch or hold out a year for a GOTY edition.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026184)

Works great with the Xbox360 controller on PC.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (2)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025646)

Sound like they're all PC related... what about the console versions?

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (5, Informative)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025932)

Every review I've read said they've had crashes and issues on the console versions as well that forced them to reload old saves, as well as quests you couldn't finish.

Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas all have community patches that literally fix hundreds of bugs that were still left unfixed after the final patch (GOTY editions) from Bethesda.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:UMP [uesp.net]
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Unofficial_Oblivion_Patch [uesp.net]
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3808 [fallout3nexus.com]
http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/268603-unofficial-new-vegas-patch/ [thenexusforums.com]

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (3, Informative)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 2 years ago | (#38027190)

>>all have community patches that literally fix hundreds of bugs

Thousands. In just one game alone.... the Unofficial Oblivion Patch fixes 2,200 bugs when the authors stopped working on it. So people then other took up the banner and kept working on it, because, you know, there were still more bugs to fix. :p

That said, I'm enjoying Skyrim. It has only been crashing about once every 4 hours, which is on the positive end of the bell curve for Bethesda games - Redguard would crash for people with non-Intel processors *off the boat*. You know, the one you start on.

The only in-game bug that bothers me is the fact that NPCs will teleport around some time. You'll be talking to this one dude, and then suddenly another dude is next to him. And then he'll flicker away.

I think a bigger problem is that the game really has been dumbed down from Oblivion... it's a sad trend that we've seen across the board in the RPG industry these days (ME2, DA2, WoW, I'm looking at you...).

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

i_b_don (1049110) | more than 2 years ago | (#38027444)

Say some more please. What do you mean by "dumbed down". Are you talking about character interaction? Combat? depth of stats? quests? or perhaps just general world interaction?

d

Re:Crashes (1)

pauls2272 (580109) | more than 2 years ago | (#38027082)

Crash to desktop, choppy framerate on extreme hardware, game freezes, sound issues... the list goes on.

I played it for a hour or two last night - got to the 1st town. Seemed very Fallout 3ish... only you have to hit R instead of A to Take All - what is up with That?

Had no graphic issues but it crashed to desktop when I opened a chest. Figured it was time to go to bed anyway...

I recommend months to a year later (4, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025788)

Reason is again bugs and also mods. They tend to provide top notch mod tools (I don't know if they have with Skyrim, but they have for the games in the past) and there are hard core modders out there. So not only do you get bug fixes, but you get a lot of improvements and changes.

As an example I really didn't like Oblivion as it was done stock. I don't like the way everything levels with your character. Just ruins the feel of the game for me. Well no problem, I'm not the only one and people have changed that. So I can nab a bunch of mods that change it more to my liking, and improve the graphics and so on, and in the end have a game that I just love and have replayed many times.

So ya my view is hold off unless you have nothing else you wish to play or are just the kind of person who has to have it day one. Wait a bit, and you'll enjoy it that much more when you can mod it up as you desire.

Of course that only applies to the PC version, but then the PC is where these games have their heritage so probably the best platform to play them on.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (4, Insightful)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025322)

This is actually something acceptable. You can also write in the console and have infinite money, but that won't make your game any more enjoyable. This follows under the same category, in my opinion. you'll only screw yourself out of a great experience if you want to - no one is forcing anything.

And honestly, whoever thought about this, deserves that piece of bread that got stolen. Genius

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025894)

Lets be honest, this looks less like a bug and more like an easter egg!

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026454)

"You can also write in the console and have infinite money, but that won't make your game any more enjoyable."

I can assure you that I enjoyed Oblivion much, much more with infinite lock picks and infinite gold than without. It instantly transformed it from a grind to a marvelous world to explore freely. Your point is well taken, but be aware that it doesn't apply universally. You can only speak about yourself when you say things like "doing X won't make the game any more enjoyable".

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (3, Interesting)

DrXym (126579) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025644)

I think part of the beauty of complex games is seeing how you can exploit them. I used to love Nethack for this but inevitably they plugged virtually all of the exploits and I think in the process killed half of the charm of the game.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

game kid (805301) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025704)

That and dragon *chomp* [youtube.com] make me giggle more than I have any right to. I'll likely pass on getting Skyrim, but with some remorse.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026044)

Damn, that audio is almost as old as the Wilhelm Scream.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026442)

Elder's Scrolls games are timeless experiences for their bugs and exploits as much as for their gameplay. Here's a simply wonderful example:

A beutiful expoit [youtube.com]

Ryan Fenton

Ah, the old bucket over the head trick. I like that one.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026648)

I only hope that Skyrim isn't the dumbed down piece of shit that Oblivion was.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (1)

Rhacman (1528815) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026904)

This makes me think that the ultimate dragon hunting weapon would be some sort of launchable spinning cauldron with bolas around the rim.

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (2)

elsurexiste (1758620) | more than 2 years ago | (#38027580)

After seeing this bug, I want to play this game even more. How can that be possible?

Re:My favorite quick look so far... (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38027894)

That video would have actually convince me to buy the game if I haven't already. It demonstrates the old problem with all "sandbox" games - they have sufficiently many independent components that user can arrange them in a way not easily foreseen, and get some useful result that was not intended by game designers (and make the game much easier, or simply look hilarious). Still, "sandbox" RPGs are much better than linear crap that we're being fed recently, so a game that has flaws like that is a good game in my book - in some pre-scripted RPG, it would be impossible precisely because everything is scripted!

first post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025154)

arena!

No one here yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025158)

Remember to try and get a little fresh air over the next few weeks.

Re:No one here yet? (5, Funny)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025284)

Remember to try and get a little fresh air over the next few weeks.

I will get plenty! I can almost feel the cold, northern breeze on my face as I trek across the mountains..!

Re:No one here yet? (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025902)

Interestingly, at this time of year, I get the same feeling walking out to my car in the morning! Convenient!

Just turn off your heater for the full immersion experience.

I am not responsible for any damage related to broken pipes, hypothermia, or frostbite.

52-minutes is 'quick-look'? (4, Insightful)

daveewart (66895) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025170)

52-minutes is 'quick-look'?? Really?

Re:52-minutes is 'quick-look'? (1)

Brucelet (1857158) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025340)

That's how big the game is.

Re:52-minutes is 'quick-look'? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026752)

Actually the game can be finished in under two hours; the rest is just filler.

Re:52-minutes is 'quick-look'? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026972)

You're doing it wrong.

In Elder Scrolls games, the main quest is the filler.

Re:52-minutes is 'quick-look'? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025614)

For dorky feeble game geeks who never get out of their basement, yes 52 minutes is very brief.

Re:52-minutes is 'quick-look'? (5, Insightful)

sqlrob (173498) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025690)

When that 52 minutes is much less than 1% of the content? Yeah.

Re:52-minutes is 'quick-look'? (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025738)

Well, a complete look would be something like 100 hours. Even putting baskets [youtube.com] on all the characters heads would take hours. But yeah, I had the same thought.

I love it (5, Funny)

SharkLaser (2495316) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025172)

I'm not really far in the game yet, but Skyrim has great feel. Magic seems to be better than in Oblivion, and the world is beautiful. It does kind of need a better texture pack, but I'm sure modders will be working with that. In the beginning (after you get out to the real world), there's a nice old lady who says it's so nice to have a visitor. I felt kinda bad after bursting her into flames and robbing her house.

Re:I love it (4, Funny)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025754)

there's a nice old lady who says it's so nice to have a visitor. I felt kinda bad after bursting her into flames and robbing her house.

Her mistake. She didn't specify what kind of visitor.

Re:I love it (1)

Radish03 (248960) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026094)

I've only played through the intro, a bandit camp, and a cave full of bandits, but I definitely agree, so far magic is way more fun than Oblivion. Setting people on fire, or watching lightning arc across their skin is way more satisfying than almost anything in Oblivion. Additionally, more than once, when I've run across multiple enemies, I've shot some fire at them with my left hand, realized I should try to use my sword to level that too, but I kill them with fire before they even make it to me. That's how a mage should play! I also like the change to a constant stream of magic firing from my hands, since now I don't have to waste half of my magicka when my Big Powerful Spell misses.

11/11/11 11:11:11 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025210)

11/11/11 11:11:11

Re:11/11/11 11:11:11 (0)

SharkLaser (2495316) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025236)

Posted by Soulskill on 2011-11-11 17:11

Re:11/11/11 11:11:11 (1, Insightful)

game kid (805301) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025312)

With my settings (and when logged out of Slashdot) the post time does, in fact, show up as 11:11.

Posted by Soulskill on 2011-11-11 11:11

I'm wondering if he remembered to post at 11.1-bar seconds of that minute for good measure. (Also I posted this when there were already 11 comments.)

I am very excited (2)

milbournosphere (1273186) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025244)

I saw the official strategy guide and it is VERY thick. Looks like there will be plenty of quest/campaign content in the game, which is awesome. I look forward to hunkering down in the basement to play this weekend :)

Re:I am very excited (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026058)

Good fucking grief, you must be a virgin.

Re:I am very excited (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026456)

Of course he is. We're all Skyrim virgins.

Back to Morrowind (3, Interesting)

Xanny (2500844) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025334)

Since I can't afford Skyrim right now, I went back and started replaying Morrowind with the graphics overhaul called Morrowind 2011. Reminded me how detached attacks feel, and how ridiculously slow you walk and run at the start of the game. And then I started walking all over the place, going in caves, killing crazy monsters. And times were good. Hoping Skyrim goes on a steam sale around xmas so I can get it >.>

Re:Back to Morrowind (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025990)

Sadly, the attack system is still little more than a mouse-click-fest, although dual-wielding is frickin' sweet, and you still start off running incredibly slow. Hopefully they'll release the creation kit soon so modders can get to work on things like a Sprint mod.

That being said, I put in 4 hours on the game last night, slayed my first dragon, and am taking a half-day off work today to continue what I expect to be a 200+ hour journey, if not far more. This game is absolutely beautiful and amazing. My girlfriend, who does little more than sit on the couch and mock my gaming, kept looking over at my screen last night and saying "oooh, that's pretty". Hell, I spent a minute just watching the salmon try to swim upstream.

The only downside I've seen thus far is the menu system was setup for consoles then adjusted for the PC so it takes some getting used to, but after a few hours I was moving through the menus far quicker than I ever did in Morrowind or Oblivion.

Whores (-1, Troll)

mr.masta.flash (2505540) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025350)

How much is Slashdot being paid now to advertise games that seriously do not need Slashdot's help?

Man, that Notch guy works fast! (5, Funny)

Speare (84249) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025366)

I've been looking forward to that latest game from Mojang-- they sure delivered this latest installment of Scrolls quickly!

Oh, wait....

Re:Man, that Notch guy works fast! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025638)

http://www.minecraftforum.net/news/307-scrolls-is-launching-tonight-and-by-scrolls-we-mean-skyrim/

He scooped slashdot, too. Not this is stuff that matters, or anything.

Re:Man, that Notch guy works fast! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025680)

No no, this is the broadcasting corporation part owned by Rupert Murdoch, Sky. [sky.com]

I will never buy Skyrim (0)

KumquatOfSolace (1412203) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026426)

Boycotting it even though I really enjoyed Oblivion and I have never even played Minecraft. You go lawyers!

Re:Man, that Notch guy works fast! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026906)

Awesome! You beat me to it.

Rewrite (-1, Troll)

afabbro (33948) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025422)

The Elder Scrolls Return With Steam

Oblivion didn't have that nonsense. I bought a copy and gave two copies away as gifts.

This one mandates Steam/activation? I'll get a copy from The Pirate Bay, thanks.

Re:Rewrite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025500)

dude, at least have the moral fibre to say you'll skip this out because of their use of steam (even if that is a lie).

people like you are exactly the reason more and more games are getting locked down.

Re:Rewrite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025658)

That is what he said.

Re:Rewrite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025844)

no, he said rather that skip it he'll play an illegally obtained copy.

Re:Rewrite (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026374)

people like you are exactly the reason more and more games are getting locked down.

Actually, the irony of it is that, if he does what he says, it's just more proof that the locking down obsession still doesn't work.

I wish I could say the Steam DRM was why I was giving this one a pass. In truth, that's Oblivion's fault.

OTOH, if I have to pass on Torchlight 2 because of stupid DRM, I am gonna be one cranky old bastard...

Re:Rewrite (4, Insightful)

rish87 (2460742) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025634)

I'm all for pirating horribly crippled, always connected, limited activation etc. DRM nonsense that comes out of some of these publishers....but I think you are totally overreacting to Skyrim being on Steam. You get a free updating tool/DLC store and unlimited redownloading of the whole game to any PC you install steam on. Doing any of these things that are practically givens in modern gaming (except updating) requires an account SOMEWHERE. Most people already use steam (it's a good service, really) so Bethesda figures why bother having everyone create new accounts specific to the game or Bethesda itself (which would require them also creating all the infrastructure to handle all these DLC purchases, digital distribution etc. for a massively popular game). Seriously, stop using any excuse possible to pirate a game and just pay for it.

Re:Rewrite (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025774)

No resale value.
Can't install without steam.

Pirates get the following:
Free game
Able to install anytime, anywhere
Updates when they want to update
No internet connection needed to play.

This is limited activation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025800)

As in "you can only activate as long as they have activation for that game".

And it's still DRM.

So it's all down to the fact that you like Steam and therefore the OP should too.

Remember, it was one time practically a given that a woman would be chattel, that black people were slaves and that children were sent to the poorhouse.

Why should we accept regression?

Re:Rewrite (3, Insightful)

makomk (752139) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026230)

On the other hand, it means that if you're going to spend more than a handful of days anywhere without internet access, you can't actually play it. Well, not if you pay for it anyway - pirates don't have to worry about this.

Re:Rewrite (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025812)

The above should not be modded as troll. I'm a 47-year-old huge fan of the Elder Scrolls series, but the Steam requirement is a show-stopper for me as well. Remember, this is a single-player game, so the Steam nonsense is pure DRM and offers nothing at all beyond that. I too will be waiting for a crack to become available and verified to be working by others before I purchase the game (and I will purchase it if I am reasonably certain that I can play it with no Steam client installed - money is not an issue for me at all).

Re:Rewrite (1)

Maquis196 (535256) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025858)

I agree with poster below. If you're that upset why don't you download it from pirate bay and donate them the retail cost of the game over paypal to some email address. Also moan about steam activation in the message as why you didn't buy.

That way you can argue you've bought it without the steam bullshit (it's what I do with music when I can)

Re:Rewrite (5, Interesting)

afabbro (33948) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025940)

You probably won't believe this, but I did exactly that with Fallout 3: New Vegas.

I wasn't going to play via Steam - because I have several software titles rotting on the shelf due to software activation servers that are no longer available.

So I got a copy from Bittorrent and subsequently mailed Bethesda a money order for the retail price - less the price of the money order fee, which I thought was fair.

I sent it anonymously because I didn't trust Bethesda not to sue me. I did give them a disposable GMail email, but they never replied (though I stopped checking it after a couple months).

Re:Rewrite (1)

afabbro (33948) | more than 2 years ago | (#38027566)

LOL!

Bash Microsoft, you're Insightful.

Bash a game publisher with TEH KEWL GAMEZ and you're Troll.

autolevel (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38025466)

autolevel is lame as fuck

Works on Linux too! (5, Informative)

tjbp (2499800) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025478)

I got this working on Wine only an hour after it arrived in the post, using v1.3.32 on x86_64 Arch Linux. Additionally you'll need to install vcrun2008 via winetricks, and set it to use d3dx9_27 as a native library. After that it a very reasonable speed on ultra-high settings using an Intel i7 2600k and a 570GTX Nvidia card. Overjoyed to see the new game has a bright future with Wine, just like its predecessor. :D I've submitted it to the app database on WineHQ too, hopefully it'll be approved shortly.

Re:Works on Linux too! (1)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026304)

Very nice to hear! I had some issues at first with Fallout where it was just excruciating to converse with any of the npc's as the entire game just ground to a halt. Looking forward to playing Skyrim.

Re:Works on Linux too! (-1)

cyborg_monkey (150790) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026328)

It's morons like you...

Re:Works on Linux too! (1)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026394)

any steam related hurdles to jump through?

Re:Works on Linux too! (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026746)

That makes me even more tempted to buy it...

Cool! (1, Flamebait)

snarfies (115214) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025492)

I'll be sure to run out and purchase it - just as soon as they release a copy that isn't infected with DRM!

Re:Cool! (4, Informative)

MrKevvy (85565) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025546)

I've seen several trustworthy people (have yet to get my activation code to verify this) that said that the main executable TESV.EXE is not tied to the Steam client; only the launcher is.

So, briefly, until they very possibly patch that out, once installed it can be run stand-alone with no Steam client, so no DRM.

Re:Cool! (4, Informative)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026090)

They probably won't patch it out. Fallout 3 and New Vegas could both be run sans-protection via bypassing the launcher as well. They knew well, but decided that third-party script extenders [silverlock.org] for modders and such were worth the 'risk'. I find this encouraging.

Re:Cool! (1)

MrKevvy (85565) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026996)

This is phenomenal, because the Steam version of Oblivion was tied to the Steam client and required Valve's assistance to get it working with the script extender. It was using the basic Steam wrapper. There were worries that Skyrim would be using the new Valve CEG encryption, which would have probably, nixed a script extender completely but Bethesda's VP confirmed otherwise.

This is much better than expected!

Re:Cool! (1)

Spad (470073) | more than 2 years ago | (#38027484)

Considering that the last couple of Bethesda games have required Games For Windows Live, Steam is a positively fantastic change.

Only one problem (4, Informative)

mseeger (40923) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025556)

The only problem is the curse of the video game console. The PC user get's crappy menus for the sake XBox/PS players.

Re:Only one problem (1)

Kenja (541830) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025670)

Yup, more or less why I'm not buying it. Perhaps later when the price comes down and there are mods to fix it.

Re:Only one problem (1)

mseeger (40923) | more than 2 years ago | (#38026082)

Oh, they put a lot of effort in, which i want to reward.

Re:Only one problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026078)

The only problem is the curse of the video game console. The PC user get's crappy menus for the sake XBox/PS players.

What's wrong with the UI and menus exactly..?

Re:Only one problem (5, Informative)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 2 years ago | (#38027238)

>>What's wrong with the UI and menus exactly..?

Go to the books menu with a lot of books in your inventory. Use the up and down keys to select books, no problem. Now try clicking on another book when one is selected. Half the time, it will open the original book instead of the one you actually clicked on. Some dialogue boxes have the same problem.

This is the problem with Consolitis - they fucking broke MICE for the PC version.

I *Hate* The Elder Scrolls (3, Interesting)

RobinEggs (1453925) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025656)

For one big reason:

Thanks to the Elder Scrolls being Bethesda's cash cow and major recent experience with RPGs, the revival of Fallout became "Oblivion with guns" rather than a decent sequel. They raped its corpse.

I mean, I still played it twice. There's something to be said for the Elder Scrolls formula. But Fallout 3 is still far behind 1, 2, and Vegas when it comes to having solid plot and characterization rather than relying on a massive, largely empty environment to drive the whole game. I swear to God, Fallout 3 barely had a quest per square mile. That damn aircraft carrier was practically empty.

That's what the Elder Scrolls means to me. The poisoning of decent CRPGs with set-piece driven exploration games.

Great, but control issues exist on PC (5, Informative)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 2 years ago | (#38025762)

If you try to play with a gamepad it works great - or as well as a gamepad can work. Like in any fps, you turn slowly and imprecisely compared to mouse control, but that's not so bad.

The mouse is another matter. Mouse behavior throughout the UI is inconsistent. It's learnable, but even then it's not entirely predictable. I tried this a bit last night. In many cases I'd place the cursor over an option and click it, but the click either wouldn't register or would happen away from the cursor. The best solution seems to be to jiggle the cursor a bit and try again.

Mouse acceleration is present but can be disabled in the .ini file. Since few people on gaming forums even know what mouse acceleration is, it gets blamed for all sorts of unrelated things like input lag, but in reality it's not a problem. Cursor lag, however, is a bit of an issue. I need to mess around with triple buffering and non-fullscreen modes to look for potential improvements, but with default settings on my rather overpowered system mouse movement seems to have around a 100ms delay. This is common in modern games because gamepads are rather sloshy and don't make input lag apparent due to their inherent slowness. However, cursor movement in menus is actually quite crisp, which is a big improvement over the majority of modern games. That's a big deal and gives me hope that a well modded and patched PC UI could be very satisfying.

The worst and most bizarre mouse input problem, however, is probably the worst mouse input bug I've ever encountered in any piece of software. The y-axis sensitivity is different from x-axis sensitivity. That's not rare in gamepad-based games, since a major concern is keeping console players from accidentally looking excessively up and down while rotating. That's even fixable in a lot of mouse drivers - I can set my x and y mouse sensitivities separately. However, the problem here is, as far as I know, unsolvable without a real Bethesda patch: the y-axis sensitivity is highly variable. If you move your mouse up 2 cm to look at the ceiling and then move a few meters and do the same thing, you're likely to find that looking at the ceiling now takes a 10 cm move. I've heard that this is because y-axis sensitivity is dependent on framerate, but I think that the dependency must be either nonlinear or more complicated than that.

I'm thinking of switching to a gamepad, but then combat is slower paced and it's more difficult to handle groups of opponents by darting between and around them mouse style.

Re:Great, but control issues exist on PC (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026286)

fixed for you already:

add the following keys to SkyrimPrefs.ini in your My Games dir

fMouseHeadingYScale=0.0100
fMouseHeadingXScale=0.0200

Re:Great, but control issues exist on PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38026360)

"The worst and most bizarre mouse input problem, however, is probably the worst mouse input bug I've ever encountered in any piece of software. The y-axis sensitivity is different from x-axis sensitivity."

Ok, good to hear it's an actual problem for others as well. Thought I was going a bit crazy there.

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