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Mexican Cartel Beheads Another Blogger

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the more-effective-than-a-slapp dept.

Crime 536

sanzibar writes "The Zetas killed and beheaded an Internet blogger Wednesday in Nuevo Laredo, the fourth slaying in the city involving people associated with social media sites since early September. '"This happened to me for not understanding that I shouldn't report on the social networks," advised a note left before dawn with the man's body at a key intersection in the city's wealthier neighborhood. The victim, identified on social networking sites only by his nickname — Rascatripas or Belly Scratcher — reportedly helped moderate a site called En Vivo that posted news of shootouts and other activities of the Zetas, the narcotics and extortion gang that all but controls the city.'"

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If they're going to do this shit anyways (5, Insightful)

atari2600a (1892574) | more than 2 years ago | (#38030928)

It'll just piss off Lulzsec more, who will cease doing it for the lulz & seek revenge...

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38030952)

Well, how about it Anon...they are calling you out.

yeah...I figured...pussies.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031002)

What? Were you expecting them to react in the small amount of time between the typing of your first and second sentences? Neither of which had been posted to Slashdot yet?

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031088)

Just saving time...they'll wuss out for sure.

They're all big and shit when it comes to attacking folks who won't cut their heads off. But when their personal safety is at risk, all their big talk and ideals don't mean shit.

Just a bunch of cheap ass punks living in their momma's basement.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (5, Interesting)

NiceGeek (126629) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031474)

Anon couldn't even take down Facebook when they promised to. Paper tigers.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (3, Insightful)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031028)

Anon doesn't have the guts to face down people who don't respect the law. They can only protest here because the cops won't beat them, only (if they get loud) cart them to jail for the night for disturbing the peace.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (1)

djsmiley (752149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031096)

Theres a 99% somewhere which doesn't believe the "cops wont beat them thing...." whats the difference now?

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (5, Insightful)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031116)

Simply put, their personal safety is at risk if they go protest the drug lords in Mexico. Nobody is going to do that, and if they do they should be entered in the running for the Darwin Awards. I hope they don't do that, because they will ALL get machine gunned into a trench after being tied together with telephone wire. On the other hand they can stick to their focus and protest big corporations and stuff here, instead of being executed. Dealing with those drug lords would require a military.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (5, Insightful)

flaming error (1041742) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031276)

> Dealing with those drug lords would require a military.

Or a pen.

"We hereby decriminalize all formerly controlled substances, and return to the Citizens their God-given right to plant, harvest, process, manufacture, buy, sell, snort, inject, swallow and/or smoke whatever narcotic, toxic, psychoactive, carcinogenic, radioactive, caustic, fungal or fecal matter they wish, as long as they limit exposure to willing, opt-in participants only."

And just like that, the Zeta's will be out of business.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (5, Informative)

Abreu (173023) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031296)

As a Mexican, I say: THIS. A MILLION TIMES THIS.

However, legalization of drugs in Mexico wouldn't work. The USA would have to legalize at the same time.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031492)

I doubt that they would try to legalize anyway, because any influential people that speak out for it will face the same fate as the the bloggers. And one of the main problems on both sides of the border is the corruption of the state itself. This will not end peacefully. So probably the only solution is to arm the populous. The cartels are definitely brutal, but they might back down when we can shoot back. I was going to log in, but now I think it's best to post this anonymously

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (5, Insightful)

Alter_3d (948458) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031354)

You make it look so simple. However, we are talking about violent sociopaths. If you cut off their main source of income, they will not just raise their hands and quit.
They will simply expand their other illicit businesses, like extortion and kidnapping.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (5, Insightful)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031422)

Exactly. Not that we shouldn't legalize drugs anyway to help reduce the black market, but they're not going to go away overnight. If Mexico legalized drugs, it would have zero effect on the cartels, because they make their money by it being illegal in the USA. If they both legalized (fat chance!), they'd turn to other things; they've already got lots of power and money built up already, they're not going to just turn to legitimate businesses.

The only way to deal with the drug cartels is with martial law and military strikes. The cartel people have leaders, and they live somewhere: drop bombs on them. When things get totally out of control like this, it's time to suspend the law and all civil liberties, and go to martial law, send in the troops, and start blowing things up. If Mexico's not willing to do that, then they should simply disband the government and allow the cartels to set up their own government.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (1)

jimmyfrank (1106681) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031564)

+1 to this.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (5, Informative)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031322)

They already DID do that. Anonymous posted an internet message demanding the release of one of their members who had been captured by the Zetas, and they threatened to out the whole gang if he was not released.

The news was real big on reporting the story that "Anonymous has backed down on their threat against the Zetas". But what half the news stories -- maybe more -- did not say was that they only backed down AFTER their member was released.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (2)

cavreader (1903280) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031572)

If they are the lords of technology they claim to be why can't they avoid being identified online? If you go after violent people online you should probably lay off bragging about your exploits on Facebook. The government of Mexico can't deal with their drug lords because their officers are usually on the payroll of the drug lords or get killed the minute they are recognized. The US has spent billions on the "war against drugs" that has accomplished nothing but raise the prices which makes the drug dealers even richer. Just like Prohibition in the US created the criminal organizations to make money on illegal alcohol trafficking. Legalization would neutralize these organizations rather quickly. Tax the legal drug sales and we could probably pay off all the US debt in record time.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031238)

Says the dipshit posting as AC. Post your name.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031346)

My understanding was that the Zetas threatened to kill ten people for every Zeta affiliate ousted. Anon probably doesn't wan to be responsible for the deaths of hundreds of innocent people. Just sayin'.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (4, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031008)

Just out of curiosity, what would constitute this revenge?

Certainly outing and naming/shaming gang members is a good start, but perhaps breaking into and emptying certain gang-run bank accounts would be another?

If ever there were opportunities for spear-phishing, this is certainly one of them.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031418)

The Dark Knight was not a documentary. ;)

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031390)

I say we take off and nuke the entire country from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Re:If they're going to do this shit anyways (1)

WaffleMonster (969671) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031490)

I say we take off and nuke the entire country from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

The drug trade shifts back to columbia.

They should hire a social media consultant with th (5, Informative)

Foxhoundz (2015516) | more than 2 years ago | (#38030934)

These cartels don't seem to understand the size and complexity of the internet. They're not going to get very far if they think they can silence every blogger out there.

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (5, Insightful)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | more than 2 years ago | (#38030980)

They don't need to... no need to rule the world, happy to be king in 'their' corner of it.

corner ? (3, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031030)

anon/lulzsec member in china or russia can harm them. what will mexican drug cartels do ? send a mexican to xiyghuan province, to behead the hacker ?

Re:corner ? (2)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031114)

anon/lulzsec member in china or russia can harm them. what will mexican drug cartels do ? send a mexican to xiyghuan province, to behead the hacker ?

Yeah, right. Somehow it's hard to see how these "anon/lulzsec" script kiddies are going to harm the Zetas.

Re:corner ? (4, Interesting)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031178)

anon/lulzsec member in china or russia can harm them. what will mexican drug cartels do ? send a mexican to xiyghuan province, to behead the hacker ?

Not at all. They will pay the Triads or Russian Mafia to take care of the person for them. Assassinations are a source of revenue too. The better question is do the Mexican drug cartels care enough to pay the going rate?

Re:corner ? (1)

tmosley (996283) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031220)

You think that all criminal organizations are chummy enough to do each other's dirty work?

Re:corner ? (3, Insightful)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031252)

Money is money. Hiring outside of your organization to kill somebody that is not even on your turf is not unheard of. The Russian gangs don't give two shits about what is going on in Mexico, and there are always shills.

Money speaks louder than any allegiances or rivalries.

Re:corner ? (5, Funny)

sjames (1099) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031318)

Really now, is there NO profession safe from offshoring these day?

yes. (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031410)

and the russian mafia will kill such competent hackers (anyone who is outing real info on mexican drug mafia will be different than the regular script kiddies) instead of making use of them.

and let me break the news to you - it is highly probable that russian mafia, chinese govt. et al are ALREADY using those hackers.

so, i think, not.

Re:corner ? (2)

muon-catalyzed (2483394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031324)

Also, where are Wikileaks when you need them!!

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (2)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031222)

Here at least we shall be free;
the Almighty hath not built Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
Here we may reign secure, and in my choice
to reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.

John Milton, Paradise Lost

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (4, Interesting)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 2 years ago | (#38030986)

I don't think they care all that much about bloggers who aren't in the local area watching them.

OTOH, maybe a means of helping those bloggers who are left down there set up VPN tunnels and encryption, so that anonymous broadcasts of gang activities can get out to the public Internet and be broadcast anyway to all interested parties. That way the reporting is perfectly anonymous, but the targets of that reporting are not.

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (5, Insightful)

ed1park (100777) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031292)

"On another note, the intelligence company known as Stratfor mentioned that if Anonymous sticks to its promise and actually publishes the names of those involved, it will "most certainly" lead to more deaths and could leave bloggers and others open to reprisal attacks by the cartel.[54] Mike Vigil, the retired head of the Drug Enforcement Administration, mentioned that "Los Zetas should take Anonymous seriously."[55] Moreover, Stratfor mentioned that Los Zetas also has experts in computer intelligence who are believed to track down the "anti-cartel" campaigns online,[56] which has made experts understand the high rate of journalist executions.[57] In addition, they mentioned that the Mexican drug cartels generally have people monitor forums, news websites, and blogs to help them be in touch with what is being published and with what could affect their interests.[58]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas_Cartel [wikipedia.org]

Being a group comprised of Mexican Special Forces, politicians, judges, police, etc. with untold millions at their disposal, with no fear of leaving mass graves of hundreds of people (decapitated, tortured, etc), it seems that compromising a few ISP's or killing any outlet of information would not be difficult if they chose to focus on it. Nationally or internationally.

Legalize drugs, and let their income of blood money vanish.

And go watch Cocaine Cowboys 1 and 2. If we can't even keep drugs out of prisons, what the hell is the point?

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031300)

http://xkcd.com/538/

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (1)

broginator (1955750) | more than 2 years ago | (#38030996)

You don't have to get them all to put the scare into them.

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031020)

They only have to silence the ones that know anything dangerous... which are likely mexican citizens, or getting their information from mexican citizens.

The internet doesn't usually deal in ratting out the people next door when the people next door can murder your whole family without any repercussions whatsoever.

Man... fuck mexico. You couldn't pay me to live there.

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031440)

What I can't comprehend is why so many naive Americans keep going there for vacations. It's sorta like spending your vacation in Somalia, except that Mexico is much more dangerous. Why on earth would you travel there? The only part that's actually safe is Mexico City, because that's the only part the government still has control. Everything outside of that is basically anarchy.

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031562)

What I can't comprehend is why so many naive Americans keep going there for vacations. It's sorta like spending your vacation in Somalia, except that Mexico is much more dangerous. Why on earth would you travel there? The only part that's actually safe is Mexico City, because that's the only part the government still has control. Everything outside of that is basically anarchy.

I agree time shares in Mexico are out of control.

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (4, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031032)

What I don't understand is why these bloggers aren't using the tools available to them to remain anonymous.

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (1)

djsmiley (752149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031112)

Why be anon when you can be "cool" ?

Of course its why most people do anything, money, power, revenge...

Now, if Mr. Wikileaks guy had never let his name be known, he too may of escapped and never got in so much trouble ;)

)Its late and i've forgot his name, but people LOVE the fame).

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031218)

When the cartel controls the city, it can always control the infrastructure... how do you know these guys aren't being monitored? I'm sure the people with internet in their homes isn't so vast that they couldn't so a process of elimination and then spying on some people to get some corroboration. It's awful what they are doing and I hope some internet white knights come and kick their ass, but in reality, these guys are controlling the real world for that city .. they don't need to control the internet.

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031310)

What's to monitor? You get up some encryption keys and covertly get them to the bloggers. The bloggers load up some porn pics or video clips with a bit of steganographic information baked in, and upload them to one of a random selection of tube sites or pr0n forums. Others watch for posts and pics by that person's pseudonym, downloads the pr0n, decrypts the message, and broadcasts that.

C'mon, they managed to do some pretty amazing shit during World War II in occupied countries, and those folks didn't have half the technology we have today...

Re:They should hire a social media consultant with (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031494)

um, obviously they only are about bloggers who know anything. For example, I live in Europe and don't know anything firsthand. I could blog all day long, but unless I spent days making expensive international calls or visiting the region, they would never care.

Legalize Drugs (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38030950)

Legalize and regulate drugs. Put the cartels out of business.

Re:Legalize Drugs (4, Insightful)

tool462 (677306) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031062)

It would reduce a major form of funding, but there will still be a market in human trafficking and other activities. It will help, but it won't put them out of business.

Re:Legalize Drugs (4, Insightful)

tmosley (996283) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031234)

They get the vast majority of their money from drugs, and use the smuggling networks they build for the one to move the other. The whole thing would collapse in a big hurry, and it would certainly get a LOT less violent.

Re:Legalize Drugs (2)

timothyf (615594) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031308)

I get the feeling that corrupt organizations (and, lets face it, if your organization requires the death of a blogger for reporting on your activities, it is corrupt) won't be particularly eager to legitimize themselves. There's more to organized crime than drugs, and I think they're likely resourceful enough to move onto the next lucrative illegal activity in the absence of an illicit drug trade.

Re:Legalize Drugs (2)

Zen Punk (785385) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031520)

If there were a black market out there anywhere near as lucrative as drugs, they'd already be a major force in it.

Re:Legalize Drugs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031314)

Do you think that the drug cartels would sit still for any legislation that decriminalises drugs? It would ruin their monopoly.

Re:Legalize Drugs (5, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031068)

It's too late, the cartels are already exploring other business ventures, such as collecting a 50% "income tax" [neglectedwar.com] . Legalizing drugs will not help deal with them at that point, they need to actually be physically exterminated.

Re:Legalize Drugs (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031160)

Of course it will help. It won't cause them to vanish overnight, but it will deprive them of a good-sized chunk of their income. Don't fall for the perfect-world fallacy.

Re:Legalize Drugs (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031246)

Right because organized crime died out in the US after prohibition. It might deprive them of a goodly sized chunk of their income, but considering how close Mexico is to being a narcoterrorist state, I don't think it's wise to suggest that cutting off that funding is going to make much of a difference.

In the US the reason why the mob declined rapidly after prohibition ended had more to do with virtually all of the money in organized crime drying up. Not just most of the money, the American gangs also didn't have quite the grip on the US that the cartels in Mexico currently have.

People keep suggesting legalization but it's little more than rationalization of bad behavior. Preventing guns and munitions from flowing to Mexico would have a much more significant impact.

How would that work? (2)

khasim (1285) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031382)

Preventing guns and munitions from flowing to Mexico would have a much more significant impact.

How would that work? Bullets are small and cheap.

It might "have a much more significant impact" but it is impossible to achieve.

But moving the revenue stream from the cartels to a legitimate government is easier to accomplish. The same as was done with Prohibition here.

In the US the reason why the mob declined rapidly after prohibition ended had more to do with virtually all of the money in organized crime drying up.

Well, except for the "protection rackets" and smuggling (gotta love the tax differentials between cities / states that make that profitable) and so forth.

But I'll take "declined rapidly" over the situation during Prohibition.

People keep suggesting legalization but it's little more than rationalization of bad behavior.

It's supply and demand. Saying "bad behavior" is a moral statement.

The same as "demon rum" during Prohibition.

Re:Legalize Drugs (4, Insightful)

khallow (566160) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031528)

Right because organized crime died out in the US after prohibition.

Prohibition didn't end drug use, gambling, prostitution, or illegal immigration.

In the US the reason why the mob declined rapidly after prohibition ended had more to do with virtually all of the money in organized crime drying up. Not just most of the money, the American gangs also didn't have quite the grip on the US that the cartels in Mexico currently have.

And guess what happens to the Mexican cartels when they too lose most of their money. They don't have any stronger a grip on Mexican cities than the Mob did on New York City or Chicago.

People keep suggesting legalization but it's little more than rationalization of bad behavior. Preventing guns and munitions from flowing to Mexico would have a much more significant impact.

Why is drug use "bad behavior"? And it's far more possible to do than prevent guns and munition from flowing to Mexico or being made in Mexico. Might as well prevent all crime while you're at it.

Yes and no (1)

bigsexyjoe (581721) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031192)

They can still take out the drug business itself by legalizing them. Obviously these gangs are very powerful now, but they can still be fought on the fronts they operate on. Not to be insulting, but collecting extortion payments from Mexican teachers sounds like a pretty crappy business model.

Re:Yes and no (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031284)

Not to be insulting, but collecting extortion payments from Mexican teachers sounds like a pretty crappy business model.

Well, it's the business model on which governments operate, and they seem to be pretty successful at that. Granted, they collect money from more than just teachers, but that's only a matter of time.

Keep in mind that, historically, our present states are a result of centralization of smaller feudal entities, and those entities came to being when the most powerful warlord took over the territory and kicked all other pretenders out by force of arms. This is exact same thing, it's just that said territory already had a government - but now that government is weakened, and it's just one of several pretenders fighting it out, and by all accounts so far it's not even the most powerful of them.

It's late, but not too late. (2)

khasim (1285) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031290)

Reducing their income means that they have less money.

And money is the reason that they're taking money from the people in the areas they control.

The problem is that bullets are cheap. It's going to be a long, bloody war no matter what happens. But reducing their income means that it will be shorter and less bloody.

Mexico is falling into warlordism.
The central government is ineffective / complicit.
Legalizing drugs would move the money FROM the cartels TO the legal growers AND the government (taxes).

There's a lot that has to happen to legalize the drugs. But it is the first step in this situation.

Re:It's late, but not too late. (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031330)

I'm all for legalizing the light stuff, such as marijuana and LSD. In fact, we should do so regardless of the situation in Mexico. I'm just saying that it (or even complete legalization) will not be the death blow for the cartels - they have grown too powerful for that.

I would be against legalizing stuff such as cocaine, however - that stuff is too easy to get hooked on, causes severe physiological (and not just psychological) dependency, and can make a man into a complete wreck in a matter of months.

I can live with petty crime. (3, Insightful)

khasim (1285) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031462)

I'm just saying that it (or even complete legalization) will not be the death blow for the cartels - they have grown too powerful for that.

As long as crime pays, there will be people who try to cash in on it.

Some of those people will form groups to facilitate their crimes.

Nothing will ever end "organized crime". But that doesn't matter as long as it is weaker than the central government. So that should be the first goal.

Then, clean up the central government.

I would be against legalizing stuff such as cocaine, however - that stuff is too easy to get hooked on, causes severe physiological (and not just psychological) dependency, and can make a man into a complete wreck in a matter of months.

Anything that is illegal will generate revenue for organized crime.

Legalize it.
Localize it (grown in the USofA by Unionized farmers)
Regulate it
Tax it
Take the tax revenue and fund free recovery clinics and anti-drug drives.

There are LOTS of people out there who can use "recreational" drugs without negatively impacting society (aside from the money going to the cartels who KILL PEOPLE). The same as most of the people who buy alcohol don't go out and smash their cars into other cars.

Tax the product so that the percentage of people who CAN use it responsibly pay for the treatment of those who CANNOT.

Mexico a failed state. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031414)

...they need to actually be physically exterminated.

As attractive as that sounds, it would be the path of destruction for mostly of the citizens. The innocents would get in the crossfire - just look at Iraq and Afghanistan and what the US and coalition forces are doing there and the impact on the residents. Brute force just doesn't work in the long term.

Also the extermination will just continue the degradation of the rule of law in Mexico.

Those drug cartels are surviving because the Mexican government has proven itself to be corrupt and inept - that is the Government's job to keep its citizen's safe.. The people need to revolt against the Government.

And here we are, the US of A, pretty much treating the Mexican people as a bunch of criminals and freeloaders when we should be helping our neighbor and her people - not with handouts, but by creating a relationship that we have with Canada, at least.

And just a side, if I had to live in that environment, you bet your ass that I'd sneak across a border to a more stable country with more economic opportunities than I have at home.

And we have people here in this country that dare to call ourselves a "Christian Nation" - goddamn hypocrites!

The human really disgusts me.

then goldman sachs would take over (1)

decora (1710862) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031138)

it would be worse than ever. they would be finding 'scientific research' that proved cocaine was good for you, and then make money investing in for-profit addiction treatment clinics, selling 'addiction recovery bonds' to investors, etc etc etc.

thats basically what they have done with fat and sugar... make delivery as efficient as possible and profit from the problems it causes (obesity etc).

not that im all against it. but it should heavily regulated.

Re:Legalize Drugs (1)

e-berlin.org (1796296) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031142)

hallelujah brother!

Don't buy drugs from the cartel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031186)

Legalize and regulate drugs. Put the cartels out of business.

OR don't by drugs from the cartel, that puts them out of business too. You can do something today, you don't have to wait for legalization.

Note that this includes both what the cartel smuggles and what the cartel has grown in the US. Note that these cartel grows are sometimes environment disasters due to water pollution and other problems. Some of these grows are screwing up national and state parks.

If you must smoke make sure local "hippies" who won't f'up the local environment are the growers.

Re:Don't buy drugs from the cartel (0)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031266)

More or less. Ultimately any drug purchases are going to fund organized crime whether through smuggling, growing or money laundering. It's somewhat naive for people to think that legalization is going to hit them hard enough to fix the problems in Mexico.

More than likely it'll make for even worse blood shed in the near term as cartels fight over the decreased business and focus on harder drugs and other activities for revenue.

Re:Legalize Drugs (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031274)

Preface: I'm not saying for certain that that wouldn't help, and I'm definitely not claiming that the War on Drugs is a good thing. Hear me out.

The Mexican and American governments are basically using force to try to achieve that very goal. Cut off their supply routes, and they can't make money. If they can't make money, they die. Classic starve-them-out strategy, right? More or less what you're suggesting, only doing it the hard and stupid way, because they're governments and they don't know any better.

Here's the catch: when the cartels started feeling the pinch on the drug-running side of business, they ramped things up on human trafficking. Press them too hard in one spot, and they'll make up for it somewhere else. The cartels don't want to die, and they have no qualms about breaking anybody's rules. If it's lucrative, they want a piece of it.

It's not enough to say "put them out of business", because they'll just switch to other, meaner business. It's a harder problem than that.

Re:Legalize Drugs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031412)

Since drugs only have large margins while they're illegal, I wonder if the drug cartels are actually going to Washington to keep drugs illegal. Are there any cartel-funded front companies on K-street that make political campaign contributions or lobby lawmakers to keep drugs illegal in the name of keeping communities safe? Likewise, did the bootleggers also did this during prohibition to stay in business.

Re:Legalize Drugs (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031504)

Legalize and regulate drugs. Put the cartels out of business.

Drugs are regulated now. They're illegal.

You're proposing making them only partially illegal, or that only certain transactions, methods, processes, etc. should be illegal. Do you really think a cartel that's willing to commit mass murder to protect its business interests is going to say, "OK finally, they're throwing us a few bones. Let's fly straight from now on"?

Just what kind of regulatory framework do you propose to construct around these legalized drugs? Do you think a health inspector is going to be immune from beheading? Or a tax collector? Or a district attorney?

When you're dealing with people this utterly lawless, how do you think rewriting the laws to favor the traffickers is going to improve conditions on the streets of Mexico?

Possibly not (5, Informative)

cappp (1822388) | more than 2 years ago | (#38030954)

Wired updated their story [wired.com] with an important caveat

Our original report named “Rascatripas” as a forum moderator for Nuevo Laredo in Vivo. That’s now appears to be off-base. At least one local reporter says there’s “no proof” yet that the decapitated man found Wednesday was actually murdered for his online activity. And administrators for Nuevo Laredo en Vivo now say that “Rascatripas” wasn’t one of theirs. “Negative,” they tweet (thanks to Xeni Jardin for the translation, and for the tip). “He was not our partner, he is confirmed to have been a scapegoat to scare others. The person executed is not a collaborator with our site, but this was without doubt an attempt to silence the voices of Nuevo Laredo.”

Re:Possibly not (1)

esocid (946821) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031054)

The person murdered was not a moderator for (or affiliated with) the site, as many seem to report. Neuveo tweeted [twitter.com] "Negative, is not our partner the person executed, but no doubt this attempt to silence the voices of Nuevo Laredo." At least that's what google translate says. An employee of the site was killed in September, but this appears to not be affiliated, and only some sort of scapegoat to disseminate the message to others who inform on Zetas.

Re:Possibly not (5, Insightful)

n5vb (587569) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031248)

Wired updated their story [wired.com] with an important caveat

Our original report named “Rascatripas” as a forum moderator for Nuevo Laredo in Vivo. That’s now appears to be off-base. At least one local reporter says there’s “no proof” yet that the decapitated man found Wednesday was actually murdered for his online activity. And administrators for Nuevo Laredo en Vivo now say that “Rascatripas” wasn’t one of theirs. “Negative,” they tweet (thanks to Xeni Jardin for the translation, and for the tip). “He was not our partner, he is confirmed to have been a scapegoat to scare others. The person executed is not a collaborator with our site, but this was without doubt an attempt to silence the voices of Nuevo Laredo.”

Which raises a very important and much lower-tech question: why would cartels be deterred by technical obstacles keeping them from identifying the real bloggers? Grab some random techy-looking guy off the street and kill him, and pin a note to him claiming he's a blogger with a warning to others not to report on cartel activities, and who'll know the difference locally? (And even if the actual bloggers are so thoroughly anonymized as to be undetectable .. that's got to make anyone on the street nervous about whether or not they're really anonymous..)

Because there's more to real life than tech [xkcd.com] ..

ISP has to be giving them up (3, Interesting)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 2 years ago | (#38030958)

How else could they track them if their ISP wasn't cooperating?

Re:ISP has to be giving them up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031014)

If you can bribe cops and judges how hard to do you think it is to bribe an ISP employee?

Re:ISP has to be giving them up (1)

bloodhawk (813939) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031270)

Why bribe when you can just show them the machette they will use to remove your head if you don't comply?

Re:ISP has to be giving them up (1)

zlel (736107) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031038)

"coorperating"? you mean like when RIAA tried to persuade the court to give an order to release names of people with certain traffic patterns?

Re:ISP has to be giving them up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031444)

Not necessarily the ISP per se. There could be a person working for the ISP and collecting all that information for the cartels.

Re:ISP has to be giving them up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031546)

How else could they track them if their ISP wasn't cooperating?

Sheer ignorance and stupidity reveal more people online every single day than any bribe would. It doesn't necessarily take an ISP to find someone.

Streisand effect, with a vengeance (3, Interesting)

corbettw (214229) | more than 2 years ago | (#38030962)

Now I'm not saying that anonymous internet nerds are going to be a threat to these guys. But, the more news reporting there is of how completely evil they are, the more outraged people get at their behavior, the more likely it becomes that either the Mexican or American authorities take them more seriously and launch an all-out war against them. If/When that happens, they'll wish they had learned the lessons of the Mafia: stay hidden, stay quiet, and don't call any attention to yourself.

Re:Streisand effect, with a vengeance (4, Insightful)

ClintJCL (264898) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031040)

Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but it's already a war. In the few years of Calderon's term, enough Mexican population has been wiped out over the drug war that if you were to extrapolate the rate of murders to the American population, there'd be 400,000 dead americans. There's daily military activity -- hell, they just had to force mexican military past our border back into mexico last week. Check out the Mexican Drug War update on DRCNet.org.

Re:Streisand effect, with a vengeance (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031536)

Not to belittle the massive number of dead, but where do you get your crazy numbers? According to your own link, there's been 40k people killed. Mexico's population is about 113M (2010); the USA's about 307M (2010), so the proportional number should be 108,066.

uhmm... they are the mexican authorities (3, Informative)

decora (1710862) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031102)

the drug cartels have infiltrated the local police, the federal police, the media, and the politicians. the mexican authorities arent going to 'launch war' against their own agents.

as for the US authorities... i just... they are utterly incompetent. you have to realize the guys we are supporting in afghanistan "against the taliban" are drug lords (the taliban are also drug lords).

we are basically propping up the same guys we want to kill in mexico, its called 'realpolitik'. in other words, nobody cares if a bunch of bloggers get beheaded as long as the 'larger US strategic interests' are protected.

for Mexico, that means cheap labor in mequilladoras (for products we can ship) and cheap immigrant labor (for labor that has to be done on site).

Re:Streisand effect, with a vengeance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031104)

a cartel is no mafia. the mafia and its code of conduct are distinctively linked to italy. No group of hispanics can match all of these three categories at a time. :)

That all-out war...its an odd attemt to solve the crime issue. It simply cannot be solved until the causes are erased.

violence causes counter-violence. still and forever...

Re:Streisand effect, with a vengeance (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031110)

But, the more news reporting there is of how completely evil they are, the more outraged people get at their behavior, the more likely it becomes that either the Mexican or American authorities take them more seriously and launch an all-out war against them.

They have had an all-out war for three years now [wikipedia.org] - and by "war" I don't mean the kind of war that's "war on drugs" in U.S., I mean actual war with military personnel, fully equipped, directly involved in operations - and cartels using IEDs, machine guns, grenade launchers, mortars, and improvised but still impressive armored vehicles [washingtonpost.com] .

So far it doesn't seem to be working all that well, because, in those southern states, cartels are often more powerful than the government, and their manpower is, to a large extent, ex-government law enforcement / military personnel (keep in mind that Los Zetas was founded by Mexican ex-spec ops!). So even when they give the army a green light to shoot first and ask questions later, it's still not a walk in the park.

Re:Streisand effect, with a vengeance (1)

djsmiley (752149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031166)

I think you've forgotton your reading this on slashdot, news for nerds.

I.E. its not anywhere else.

Check google news, search beheaded blogger. You get 360 sources.

Thats by directly searching for two terms that are likely to come up.... now behaeaded might appear often, but I'm doubtful many people search for news about bloggers unless something juicy has just come out of hollywood or whatever...

Until this is main headline news (which it won't be, as who cares about some bloggers?) then nothing will be noticed. However, to those saying "what can Anon do". I've just told you. They can get in the news. Rather easily it seems, and hell if they push hard enough maybe some rich geek might take notice and sdecide to get involved.

However unlikely.

Re:Streisand effect, with a vengeance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031286)

The war exists as others that have replied to you have said.

The Mexican authorities are thoroughly infested. American authorities? mean, what would you do if back in the Red Scare days you realized that one of the groups McCarthy was targeting actually turned out to be a pinko-commie (pink scarves to identify themselves) really out for a violent revolution with both intent and motive?

The Republicans are the boy who cried wolf on this issue. At least the ones raising the alarm here. The Democrats I just don't get anymore. I used to be willing to say they didn't care for war that much. Now we are finding out they accidentally assisted the cartels in this mess and took us from two wars to possibly five (until the full Iraq pull out).

I guess we need documented video footage of the cartels coming over the border for there to be any real action?

*Sighs* 19 men and box cutters, two wars and a decade. A civil war across the ocean and we get involved. An entire rogue military unit we helped train, killing US agents, with guns the US gave them, and a civil war next door and the country worries more about PSU's and Cain's sexual activities.

God I hate my country some days.

How could the summary... (0)

msauve (701917) | more than 2 years ago | (#38030972)

have left out this tidbit: "...founder of the Wimpy burger chain." I find that more interesting than the "tea merchants" bit.

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" - J._Wellington_Wimpy [wikipedia.org]

Re:How could the summary... (1)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031010)

Wrong story... :-))

Re:How could the summary... (1)

The Wild Norseman (1404891) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031108)

"... and in other news, the virtual body of Slashdot poster msuave was found today behind a virtual dumpster and is missing his virtual head. Msuave was quoted as saying, "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" and it was later discovered that he could not come up with the four hamburger repayment schedule, but only had three burgers on him.

McDonald's has declined to comment."

I hope Anonymous publishes what they have (1)

bigsexyjoe (581721) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031168)

I can't judge, because I'm not in their shoes, but there's a reason governments have policies of not negotiating with terrorists.

At this point, I hope Anonymous posts all the info they have on them. Teach the Zetas that killing people is punished, not rewarded.

Re:I hope Anonymous publishes what they have (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031216)

if anonymous is as crafty as they seem, they won't post anything.... true dominance is to make is to make it look like Zetas are ratting on each other.

not bloody likely (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031378)

FYI Anonymous already cut a deal with the Zetas, in exchange for their buddy back in one piece, they don't post anything.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-57318930-245/anonymous-drops-zeta-threat-after-return-of-kidnappee/?part=rss&subj=latest-news [cnet.com]

Also for the on-going safely for the non-anonymous members, I don't think anonymous is going to post anything about the Zetas anytime in the near future...

http://lezgetreal.com/2011/11/anonymous%E2%80%99-next-lesson-%E2%80%93-how-to-run-for-your-life/ [lezgetreal.com]

Everyone has their limit to their actions, Anonymous has discovered it. But of course the Anon fanbois are still cheering/goading them on...

Why did they kill him? (2)

Bromskloss (750445) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031208)

Maybe it's obvious, but I'm clueless. Why did they not want him to report on "shootouts and other activities"? I would have guessed they rather wanted their brutal behaviour to be known. What activities was it they did not want reported on?

Re:Why did they kill him? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031456)

Despite what people think, the Zetas aren't the only drug gang in Mexico. Thier competitors don't need to know how brutal they are (they already know). What they don't want is for people to broadcast their actions lest that somehow compromises their operations or operatives.

The mindset of these type of people is shoot first and ask questions later. Following that logic, why not kill any reporters that report any activities about you. They don't provide any value to you, and they might cause some harm by providing information to your competitors, so why not just kill them?

So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss. If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose. If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself. -Sun Tzu The Art of War

America did it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031262)

Just to get that out of the way.

How did things degrade to this level? (1)

Trogre (513942) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031374)

Law enforcement being scared or bought? Or both?

Anyway, these fuckers need to be exposed and ousted, and now. No more excuses.

I'd say all bloggers even remotely involved with this need to get anonymized now and expose everything on these cartels.

Cartels should keep up the good work (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031380)

Maybe they will piss off enough of us to get off our asses and put an end to tolerating the use and sale of drugs by our friends and neighbors.

How long till.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38031542)

How long till we see a Zeta member strung up from a bridge with a note pinned to him warning of more to come for attacking others?

Sorry but the only ways you can put these dogs down is to either get the governments involved (Both US and Mexican) or to become a bigger monster than they are, beat them at their own game, and have them be scared to admit any affiliation with them or any Drug Cartel to the point they can no longer operate.

treat the problem, not the symptom. (1)

slick7 (1703596) | more than 2 years ago | (#38031568)

Rape the rapists, murder the murderers, terrorize the terrorists. This is what they do, this is what they understand.
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