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Intel Launches Sandy Bridge-E Series Processors

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the the-new-kids dept.

Intel 204

MojoKid writes "Today marks the release of Intel's Sandy Bridge-E processor family and its companion X79 Express chipset. The first processor to arrive is the Core i7-3960X Extreme Edition, a six-core chip manufactured using Intel's 32nm process node that features roughly 2.27 billion transistors. The initial batch of Sandy Bridge-E CPUs will feature 6 active execution cores that can each process two threads simultaneously via Intel Hyper-Threading technology. Although, the chip's die actually has eight cores on board (two inactive), due to power and yield constraints, only six are active at this time. These processors will support up to 15MB of shared L3 Intel Smart Cache and feature integrated quad-channel memory controllers with official support for DDR3 memory at speeds up to 1600MHz, as well as 40 integrated PCI Express 3.0 compatible lanes. Performance-wise, Sandy Bridge-E pretty much crushes anything on the desktop currently, including AMD's pseudo 8-core FX-8150 processor."

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Boycott Intel (-1, Redundant)

Tenebrousedge (1226584) | more than 2 years ago | (#38047744)

Boycott Intel for anti-competitive practices.

taking all bets on the price (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38047746)

given Intel's near monopoly on the cpu market, i'm guessing over 9000 dollars. fuck you intel

missing option... (0)

nonsensical (1237544) | more than 2 years ago | (#38047750)

But there's no ~$300 priced k version.

Re: Cough (1)

slaker (53818) | more than 2 years ago | (#38047892)

The i7-2700k will have a launch MSRP of $331. [cpu-world.com]

I fully expect I'll be able to get one at Microcenter for $280 or so.

Re: Cough (1)

nonsensical (1237544) | more than 2 years ago | (#38047910)

They were supposedly releasing the i7-3820 at $294, with "limited unlock" whatever that means. I was wanting to get the newer socket 2011 motherboard to future proof as much as possible.

Re: Cough (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38047998)

Trying to future proof an Intel based motherboard is pointless. Considering this new socket replaces the LGA 1155, which is less than a year old, in an ever decreasing release interval, I would estimate this socket will be obsolete by next spring, summer at the latest.

Re: Cough (4, Informative)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048066)

It doesn't replace LGA1155 it replaces LGA1366, which is 3 years old. These chips are server and workstation level chips.

Intel's next desktop architecture is called Ivy Bridge, will be released in the first 3 months of next year, and will be using LGA1155. Ivy Bridge E will use LGA 2011. Only in about 20 months time (by which point LGA1155 will be 3 years old) will Haswell come out on a newer socket.

Re: Cough (1)

slaker (53818) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048026)

As someone with a decent investment in LGA1366 stuff, I'd rather play it smart and keep everything on the "mainstream" LGA1155 for anything but the six core CPUs. The motherboards are harder to find and substantially more expensive for the dubious value of having some extra PCIe lanes and a couple extra DIMM slots.

I'm in the process now of selling off my LGA1366 machines while they still have value and replacing them with Xeon E-series equipment.

Re: Cough (5, Insightful)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048274)

When buying hardware, trying to future proof is dumb. You could try to "future proof" now and buy a $1500 system. In 3 years it'll be shit though.

Alternatively, you could buy a $600 mediocre system now, and another $600 system in 2 years that'll be faster than the above $1500 one. The result will be that you've spent $300 less, you've got machines that are reasonably current for 4 years, and the system you get out at the end is faster.

Re: Cough (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38048626)

The result will be that you've spent $300 less, you've got machines that are reasonably current for 4 years, and the system you get out at the end is faster.

You're also sending twice as much to the garbage pile.

I know this isn't a consideration for most, and it's all but encouraged through the new "disposable electronics" thing that's crept up over the last decade, but at some point we need to consider that some considerations extend beyond the financial, even when talking about buying consumer goods.

For instance, I know people that buy a new printer every time their starter ink runs out because it's still cheaper than buying replacement ink cartridges. Three times a year they're throwing a perfectly good printer into the trash. Yeah, it saves them money, but does that really make it right to throw it in a landfill? I have a hard time saying yes.

Maybe if we required manufacturers to subsidize the disposal of their goods when such goods are non-biodegradable it would help do something to eliminate the whole "designed for the dump" phenomenon?

Re: Cough (2)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048690)

You're also sending twice as much to the garbage pile.

Not that your point in general is wrong, but you're actually sending about 150% to the garbage pile, not 200%. One machine every 2 years, instead of one machine every 3.

Re: Cough (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048900)

You're also sending twice as much to the garbage pile.

Blame Intel for their cockamamie upgrade path that makes every component obsolete every 12 months.

Why even bother buying motherboards and processors separately if they're both going to become obsolete at the same time thanks to Intel?

Re: Cough (3, Informative)

Mal-2 (675116) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048902)

The result will be that you've spent $300 less, you've got machines that are reasonably current for 4 years, and the system you get out at the end is faster.

You're also sending twice as much to the garbage pile.

I know this isn't a consideration for most, and it's all but encouraged through the new "disposable electronics" thing that's crept up over the last decade, but at some point we need to consider that some considerations extend beyond the financial, even when talking about buying consumer goods.

For instance, I know people that buy a new printer every time their starter ink runs out because it's still cheaper than buying replacement ink cartridges. Three times a year they're throwing a perfectly good printer into the trash. Yeah, it saves them money, but does that really make it right to throw it in a landfill? I have a hard time saying yes.

Maybe if we required manufacturers to subsidize the disposal of their goods when such goods are non-biodegradable it would help do something to eliminate the whole "designed for the dump" phenomenon?

A machine that was bleeding-edge two years ago is still quite powerful today for the majority of people out there. Also, not every server in the rack has to be equal. There are plenty of less-demanding but still important roles that two year old machine can fill when it is kicked down a notch. I'm sure the "weakest link" hardware can be put to good use elsewhere when upgrade time rolls around. I know I consider the mobo-CPU combo as a unit now, rather than thinking "I can upgrade the CPU later". Maybe I can and maybe I can't, but it doesn't matter that much. So long as I have room to boost RAM and storage, I can extend the useful life of the hardware a great deal. It just may not be my fastest, l33t3st system any more. At worst, I can give the machine away -- my 3 year old secondhand hardware is generally as good as most people would buy off the shelf new, and I already have a good idea what it does best.

Re: Cough (3, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048906)

You're also sending twice as much to the garbage pile.

Only if you actually throw the machines away. If anything, it's the reverse. If you upgrade components of a machine, it's much harder to find a use for the bits you remove than if you replace the whole machine. A two year old machine may be underpowered for you, but there are lots of people who can use it for another few years.

Re: Cough (1)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048928)

What kind of moron would throw a still semi-decent computer in the trash? Sell it for $250 to recoup some of the loss. And who says it would end up in a landfill? I don't know about you, but my state has a recycling program. I can drop it off at Goodwill and it gets recycled.

Re: Cough (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#38049012)

I bought an PS3. 400 bucks and I haven't had to upgrade since. Maybe I might buy a slick SSD and throw it in there for giggles.

they should have a lower cost CPU that works X79 (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048310)

As that is where AMD wins as you can get lower end cpu and use the chipset with a lot of PCI-e lanes.

Intels other CPU have to few pci-e lanes just X16 + the chipset link is to few. When 1 video card can take up X8-16 pci-e lanes.

As things like sata 6, usb 3.0, PCI-e based SSD cards, cable card tuners, Thunderbolt, need the pci-e lanes as well.

Intel pushes the X1 slots, networking, sound, usb, sata, all over that X4 based chipset link.

At least have 20 pci-e + chipset link so you can have 1X16 or 2X8 + a X4 slot or have Thunderbolt in place of the lanes for the X4 slot.

Re:they should have a lower cost CPU that works X7 (1)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048768)

As things like sata 6, usb 3.0, PCI-e based SSD cards, cable card tuners, Thunderbolt, need the pci-e lanes as well.

1) SATA 6 and USB3 is typically on the mobo not using up PCIe anyway
2) The thing is, the number of machines not owned by enthusiasts that actually use these other things is tiny. Are you seriously going to spend thousands on a PCIe SSD, but not be willing to shop out for a decent CPU too? I have no idea who actually uses a TV tuner any more with on-demand services being infinitely more convenient, and thunderbolt is a) something that should be integrated into the graphics card anyway b) something which only really benefits laptops, as it's pretty much the generic docking station and nothing else.

Re:missing option... (1)

KingMotley (944240) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048448)

The $300 version is called i5.

Re:missing option... (2)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048776)

No, the i5 is $150 to $200. The around $300 versions are the i7 2600, 2600k, 2700, 2700k and 3820, the 2600k and 2700k have unlocked multipliers, the 3820 has a partially unlocked multiplier.

Pseudosematics: "psuedo 8-core" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38047864)

No mojo for you.

Crushes anything on the desktop (5, Funny)

CubicleView (910143) | more than 2 years ago | (#38047894)

So it's very heavy then?

Re:Crushes anything on the desktop (3, Funny)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048094)

They are going for the "Big Iron" market.

Re:Crushes anything on the desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38048412)

This is extremely serious news event, and you tell jokes today?

Socket (0)

TheCRAIGGERS (909877) | more than 2 years ago | (#38047912)

Holy shit, did they actually manage to unveil a new CPU without forcing a new socket down our throats? I don't believe it.

Re:Socket (2)

Wagoo (260866) | more than 2 years ago | (#38047924)

Er, no.. they didn't. It's LGA 2011, a new socket. Again.

Re:Socket (1)

Zephiris (788562) | more than 2 years ago | (#38047934)

Herp. Derp. "After some delays, Sandy Bridge E is finally here. The platform is actually pretty simple to talk about. There's a new socket: LGA-2011, a new chipset Intel's X79 and of course the Sandy Bridge E CPU itself. We'll start at the CPU."

Re:Socket (1)

TheCRAIGGERS (909877) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048056)

I didn't see that in the article, but I am sadly not surprised.

Re:Socket (5, Informative)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048110)

In this instance, no, this is a new socket, replacing LGA1366. Next year though intel will release new desktop CPUs based on the current LGA1155 for desktops.

Intel actually don't release things on new sockets as much as people think. Every tick/tock pairing has one desktop socket, and one server socket, this is the server socket to go with LGA1155's desktop socket. The tock to come (Ivy Bridge) will also use LGA1155 for desktops and LGA2011 for servers.

This is much the same as has happened before: Nehalem introduced LGA1156 and LGA1366, westmere reused them; Conroe introduced (properly) LGA775 and LGA771, Arandale reused them.

Re:Socket (3, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048538)

Intel actually don't release things on new sockets as much as people think. Every tick/tock pairing has one desktop socket, (..) Nehalem introduced LGA1156 and LGA1366, westmere reused them; Conroe introduced (properly) LGA775 and LGA771, Arandale reused them.

Which means the motherboard is good for exactly one generation on upgrades, on the same die size. Who'd seriously upgrade their almost-new Nehalem system to Westmere, Conroe to Arandale or Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge? Then you'd do better putting all that money into one processor. Socket compatibility is only good if it lasts long enough there good reason to upgrade. With Intel, I assume that any new processor I buy will require a new motherboard, simple as that.

Re:Socket (2)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048674)

No –it means that the motherboard is good for exactly one generation on upgrades at a smaller die size.

It's also fairly common for people to buy a low end version of the tick, and then a high end version of the tock.

Socket compatibility is only good if it lasts long enough there good reason to upgrade.

Agreed, unfortunately, that's almost never, no matter who your CPU manufacturer is.

Re:Socket (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38048424)

It is on a new socket, wake up.

$1000 processor vs the world (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38047916)

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but they are bench-marking a $1000 processor against a $300 processor?

$1000 processor wins!

Re:$1000 processor vs the world (4, Insightful)

hansamurai (907719) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048358)

Because it actually provides context on how much better (or not how much better) that $1000 processor is. Plus, how many other desktop $1000 processors are out there to benchmark against? Certainly nothing from AMD.

Re:$1000 processor vs the world (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048752)

Look at the article above this one about the 16 core AMD processors. If people are going to compare $1000 processors against $300 ones why not take a wander into server space? The goal posts have already been unfairly moved so why not give them a bit more of a nudge into Xeon and Opteron space?

Re:$1000 processor vs the world (1)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048954)

Um...maybe because these aren't Xeons? They're high-end enthusiast chips. Xeons based on 2011 are due early next year.

What else are they supposed to bench it against? (5, Informative)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048400)

There are only three things that you can bench it against usefully:

1) The 2500/2600k CPUs that are the high end for the consumer boards. The question there is "What do I get moving up to the much more expensive E series?"

2) The top of the line AMD Bulldozer. The question there is "How much faster is Intel's high end than AMD's high end?"

3) The previous Intel high end, the i7-990X. The question there is "How much faster would it be if I upgraded?"

In all cases, you are talking a very high priced, over spec'd part. There are no other chips in its category really. It is for people who demand the max performance and aren't concerned with the stiff price premium to have it.

Re:$1000 processor vs the world (1)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048470)

they are bench-marking a $1000 processor against a $300 processor?

They are benchmarking the topen end desktop part of the current generation* against both thetop end desktop parts of the previous generation (990x), the upper-mainstream of the current generation (2700K) and the best chip the competitor can come up with (FX-8150). What else are they supposed to compare it with?

It is a bit dissapointing is that they don't have the 3930K in the test, it should be only slightly slower thant the 3960x while being a lot cheaper. From what I can gather this is because intel didn't bother sending out samples of that chip to the reviewers.

The fact it wins is as you say hardly surprising, what is more important is how much it wins by and in what tests. As expected it beats the 2700K by a wide margin in highly multithreaded tasks but has little advantage in thread count limited tasks. The 990x OTOH gets beaten by the 3960X in pretty much every test.

* With this generation intel released the mainstream long before the top-end, this is the opposite of what they did with previous generations.

Re:$1000 processor vs the world (1)

Shinobi (19308) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048642)

They sent it out to some reviewers. Sweclockers has it for example. Google translate it or something if you don't know swedish http://www.sweclockers.com/recension/14699-intel-core-i7-3930k-och-3960x-sandy-bridge-e [sweclockers.com]

I'm disappointed with its power consumption, same as with the Bulldozer. However, unlike with the Bulldozer, you actually get computational performance to match the power consumption.

Re:$1000 processor vs the world (1)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048604)

$1000 processor wins!

Not if you can build two computers out of $300 processors. ;-)

mo3 up (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38047926)

A bit underwhelming (4, Informative)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38047928)

Honestly, with a $500+ entry tag plus cooler which is not included plus expensive, low volume motherboard you might want to compare to a dual processor Xeon machine rather than other desktops for some alleged server/workstation stability too. Performance was as expected, 6 cores to 4 so it's faster in well-threaded workstation applications, not that different otherwise.

What's disappointing is the platform, no USB 3.0, two SATA 6 Gbps ports, no SAS support, it seems like PCI express 3.0 made it in but no cards support it yet so there's nothing besides the processor that really screams high end. Well that and 8 memory slots if you feel 4x4GB isn't enough but there's alternatives like the old high end it replaces with 6 slots or 8 GB sticks that have been showing up lately - pricey but you can get 4x8GB for less than one of these CPUs. Don't get me wrong, it's the undisputed performance king but it's like the same car with a souped up engine and fuel system yet none of the features that say this is a $100k Ferrari.

Re:A bit underwhelming (1)

slaker (53818) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048088)

This is being positioned as a hobbyist platform, same as LGA1366. The affordable E-series (i7-type) Xeons don't boot on consumer-class motherboards and don't have chipset support SMP though. These guys are the only game in town for people who want to stick three video cards in something and get a top notch CPU to go with it.

Re:A bit underwhelming (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048460)

no hobbyist will spend $1000 for a cpu+cooler for these performances. pointless. leave aside lack of a lot of major stuff like usb 3 et al.

and, not 3, but 4 video cards in crossfire or sli will not require this kind of computing power. even if you shove in 2 x 6990s in crossfire, which make 4 top-rate gpus put into 2 cards. apparently you dont know this enthusiast field, so dont bullshit about it.

Re:A bit underwhelming (1)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048808)

no hobbyist will spend $1000 for a cpu+cooler for these performances. pointless. leave aside lack of a lot of major stuff like usb 3 et al.

No, but someone who calls themselves a hobbyist, but is actually a moron will. These parts are intel going "look, we made the E5 Xeons, by the way, if you're a moron and want to hand us cash, please buy the desktop variants".

The E5 Xeons released with these parts are really where the news is.

Re:A bit underwhelming (2)

Shinobi (19308) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048896)

Oh, you're astroturfing for AMD's marketing department again.

Many hobbyists will easily spend $1k on this, it's a fact. Hell, averaged over a lifetime, computing is still a cheap hobby, compared to things like flying, amateur motor racing etc.

As for the double cards, you may very well need the CPU to generate the data that you want to display over all those cards.

My brother for example would love this CPU for his CAD work for his hobby(he designs and builds stuff as a hobby), and all the CUDA/OpenCL modules have had serious deficiencies.

Re:A bit underwhelming (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048968)

head to overclock net and see if hobbyists will spend anything on this. you wont find anyone who breaks overclock records or does custom water cooling spending $1000 on this. only fanboys with brand loyalty. that is normal.

your brother is better off with a dual socket solution and amd opterons if he is doing anything that serious. which could come even cheaper than this intel setup and provide multiples of performance. if he isnt doing that already, then he doesnt know shit, and your argument is null.

Re:A bit underwhelming (2)

Shinobi (19308) | more than 2 years ago | (#38049130)

So that's AMD's marketing approach these days "Anyone who doesn't buy our systems is worthless, a fanboy and we'll deride them, and hope they buy our systems when we've insulted them enough"? And in regards to overclockers, do you really think they are the only hobbyists? Seriously? And even then, many overclockers who know what they are doing will buy them and make use of them.

For his work, the 3930 will beat dual Opterons, because the computational tasks are not that easily parallellized, so you need strong per-core performance. Which these have... And AMD's current and last 2 generations haven't had.

Personally, I moved away from Opterons in my workstation, because they simply couldn't keep up with Xeons. When my current workstation gets a bit too slow for what I'm doing, I'll carefully look at both options available, but in the current state, going with AMD would be unjustifiable and thus very unprofessional.

Re:A bit underwhelming (1)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 2 years ago | (#38049118)

And you haven't looked at any benches of SLI/XFire on SB-E. It's surprising how much better it does over other platforms with 2-3 video cards.

Re:A bit underwhelming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38048146)

I don't care about USB 3.0 on a workstation, thunderbolt I do care about.

That's how it has long worked (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048298)

These are Intel's "enthusiast" parts which generally means "people with too much money". Some people want the highest end performance, price is no issue. Intel is happy to stick a hose in their pockets and siphon out the cash.

That's also why these came after the regular SB parts. Intel full and well knows that for 99.99% of people a standard SB is more than plenty and they'd like to have something economical.

In terms of the other things you'd like to see, USB3 and more SATA 3 will probably be coming but Intel is going to need to replace their DMI interconnect with something faster. They'll just run out of bandwidth between chipset and CPU otherwise. Remember that things like that take time to properly design.

  SAS is probably never coming to consumer boards. Too much additional expense for not enough gain. Remember that SAS is actually more complex from a logic standpoint (hence why SAS controllers can handle SATA drives but not vice versa). There just aren't many SAS drives out there in use in consumer systems, and there'll only be less as SSDs take off. After all, what do you really want for a high performance desktop: A 300GB 15k SAS drive for $400 that you have to deal with the noise and cooling, or a 250ishGB SSD for around $400, knowing that the SSD beats the 15k cold in transfer rate, IOPS, seek time and so on?

Only thing I could really see this being useful for, maybe, is GPU compute systems. Reason is that as stated the regular SB only has 16 lanes of PCIe for graphics, the E series has twice that (the others are for other slots). If you knock 4 cards in a system, that means that you'd be splitting the bandwidth down to 4x per card. While chips like the NF200 can help by providing 16x to each card, they still have only 16x to the CPU and thus only a single card can get full bandwidth at any one time. Presuming you had problem sets that required a lot of swapping to system RAM, this could help. However, I find that to be a rather outside possibility, as to use GPUs to their full processing efficiency, you need shit to fit in the RAM on the card.

At any rate, stick with Intel's consumer shit unless you have a real reason.

Why not put QPI in all CPU's and open it up? (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048452)

So you can have more chipset choice like AMD?

Re:A bit underwhelming (1)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048794)

you might want to compare to a dual processor Xeon machine

Well you can get 8-12 cores with one of those BUT they are previous-generation cores (the dual-socket variant of LGA2011 isn't out yet) and you have to pay through the nose to get a decent clockspeed. The only people I know of who have purchased dual xeon workstations have done so for the ram support.

What's disappointing is the platform, no USB 3.0, two SATA 6 Gbps ports, no SAS support, it seems like PCI express 3.0 made it in but no cards support it yet

But you have far more lanes. Afaict LGA2011 has 40 lanes from the processor. So even if PCIe3 doesn't pan out you can have two graphics cards running at 2.0 x16 and still have room for a nice LSI sas controller straight off the processor.

so there's nothing besides the processor that really screams high end.

The thing is with modern highly integrated platforms the processor is what defines the key features of the platform.

Wait for Ivy Bridge. (5, Informative)

wildstoo (835450) | more than 2 years ago | (#38047964)

That's nice and everything, but I'll wait for Ivy Bridge [wikipedia.org] , which is due March 2012.

According to Wikipedia:

Ivy Bridge feature improvements from Sandy Bridge were expected to include:

Tri-gate transistor technology (up to 50% less power consumption)
PCI Express 3.0 support
Max CPU multiplier of 63 (57 for Sandy Bridge)
RAM support up to 2800MT/s in 200MHz increments
Next Generation Intel HD Graphics with DirectX 11, OpenGL 3.1, and OpenCL 1.1 support
The built-in GPU is believed to have up to 16 execution units (EUs), compared to Sandy Bridge's maximum of 12.
The new random number generator and the RdRand instruction, which is codenamed Bull Mountain.
Next Generation Intel Quick Sync Video
DDR3 low voltage for mobile processors
Multiple 4k video playback

So yeah, just hang on for the die shrink if you care about performance and power consumption. My next system will definitely be Ivy Bridge based.

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38048084)

That's nice and everything, but I'll wait for whatever's coming out after Ivy Bridge.

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (1)

PIBM (588930) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048234)

Pffft.. you could have waited for whatever would come out last! Thats the only way you could not be overdone by those waiting for what's coming after whenever you decided to make your move :)

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (1)

ksd1337 (1029386) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048930)

I for one welcome our Terminator overlords!

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38048224)

16 EUs. Woah. For comparison: nVidia and AMD's current cards have over 1500 of them.

So this is like comparing a consumer-class lawnmower to a Bugatti Veyron, graphics-wise.

Why would anyone with such a extreme setup ever care for such shitty integrated graphics? And whatâ(TM)s the point of DirectX 11 support, if you can't use it anyway.

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (4, Insightful)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048286)

16 EUs. Woah. For comparison: nVidia and AMD's current cards have over 1500 of them.

So this is like comparing a consumer-class lawnmower to a Bugatti Veyron, graphics-wise.

Why would anyone with such a extreme setup ever care for such shitty integrated graphics? And whatÃ(TM)s the point of DirectX 11 support, if you can't use it anyway.

Because you can power off the graphics card and still do 1080p HD video decoding, or play some lower-end games. That'll shave a good 300w off of your total power usage. Not to be scoffed at.

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38048760)

Because you can power off the graphics card and still do 1080p HD video decoding, or play some lower-end games. That'll shave a good 300w off of your total power usage. Not to be scoffed at.

But how many people purchasing this particular CPU would ever actually do that?

The people buying these hobbyist CPU's are not interested in shaving power. Integrated graphics is all well and good for the mobile market, but I bet you'll have a hard time finding anyone running integrated graphics in a home built machine, certainly not one running a top-tier CPU in it.

It's like selling a car with an optional pedal-drive. Why?

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (1)

ZenDragon (1205104) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048290)

I think the biggest reason is possibly that the integrated graphics can function as your primary adapter when the the power of the dedicated cards is unnecessary, reducing power consumption and heat overall. Certainly its not going to win any graphic wars, but its more than enough to run Aero efficiently. I suppose power consumption is not on the top of the list of most peoples concerns when buying something like this, but its nice to have the option to do so.

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048416)

16 EUs. Woah. For comparison: nVidia and AMD's current cards have over 1500 of them.

An EU ~= 2 shaders so 32 to 1500, but yes...

Why would anyone with such a extreme setup ever care for such shitty integrated graphics?

Ivy Bridge isn't what Intel considers "extreme", it's their mainstream processor. As such it'll go into plenty corporate desktops and other places that want CPU power but not to play games or for casual games. Less and less people get a discrete graphics card, because the Intels don't suck quite as bad as they used to, their market share is now about 60%. But yes, for this discussion it wasn't very good selling points. OTOH, if you game the Sandy Bridge-E doesn't actually deliver any more than a 2600K, put that money in graphics cards instead...

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (1)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048830)

Actually, nVidia's currently have 512 of them per chip, and AMD currently have around 400. AMD like to claim they have 1600 by counting the number of scalar units instead of the number of vector units.

Intel's current (Sandy Bridge) IGP is pretty damn good –it holds its own against integrated offerings by AMD and nVidia. Ivy Bridge is expected to put them right in the mix.

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048252)

I'm going to wait for Ivy Bridge too.

I'm then going to buy an i5 2500K chip and Z68 motherboard for pennies, load it up with yesterday's memory, and have a system which will last me another 5 years. It's worked well with my existing nForce 680i / Core2Quad Q6600 setup.

Don't count on it (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048326)

The Z68 isn't likely to go down in price any, it is the chipset for the IB. The IBs are drop-in replacements for SB processors, same board, same chipset, and all that. In terms of RAM, same deal. They'll still use DDR3. Now that doesn't mean you'll pay much for it, DDR3 is dirt cheap, like $100 or less for 16GB of high quality RAM, but it won't be any cheaper on account of new RAM coming out (RAM is also cheapest when it is in the most production, not because of new tech).

In terms of the CPU... Maybe. Thing is Intel doesn't tend to reduce prices on older parts. A Q9550 is still $300 from Amazon. For that price, you can get an i7-2600. this will probably continue and you'll find that the IB chips will be no more or less than the SB chips they replace. If you buy used you can get one cheaper, of course, but not new.

Re:Don't count on it (2)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048578)

I've got a Z80 right here. I can't imagine how fast a Z68 must be!

Did they finally break that 65536 bytes barrier?

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38048406)

Ivy Bridge? Haha loser!

You should wait for Haswell which is due 2013 and runs off the 22nm production line.

Personally I'm waiting for Rockwell which will be 16nm and will totally destroy your Ivy Bridge piece of shit.

Re:Wait for Ivy Bridge. (1)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048492)

Careful, this kind of thinking may keep you from ever getting any upgrade at all. There's always something niftier coming in half a year.

Other Reviews (4, Informative)

Vigile (99919) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048078)

Intel compiler & Windows OS in benchmarks (3, Interesting)

coder111 (912060) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048258)

This is all nice and well, but are there any sites that actually benchmark this CPU under Linux, running some stuff not compiled with intel compiler? AFAIK most of the benchmark software is running on windows is compiled with ICC, and ICC cheats- it disables most optimizations on non-intel CPUs.

How about some linux developer workload? Compile times? IDE performance? Java performance? PHP, Apache, PostgreSQL, MySQL performance? KDE/Gnome performance? CAD/CAM? Matlab or Octave? Bzip2/gzip/SSL/zip under Linux? I know some of these workloads depend on IO/graphics more than on CPU, but I'd like to see results anyway. And I'm sick and tired of reviews that run some Intel compiled synthetic benchmarks and then some games that primarily use GPU anyway. Phoronix is guilty of that as well- they should have more WORK workloads and less FPS counts for games. But at least they are trying- and Bulldozer performance under Linux/GCC isn't that bad compared to Intel CPUs as it is under Windows/ICC.

--Coder

Re:Intel compiler & Windows OS in benchmarks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38048520)

Why would anyone use icc to compile these programs when msvc is much better? I don't think icc has any measurable market share on windows.

Re:Intel compiler & Windows OS in benchmarks (1)

coder111 (912060) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048652)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_C%2B%2B_Compiler#Criticism [wikipedia.org]

As far as I remember, some benchmark software (I think Passmark family) is compiled with ICC. If not benchmarks themselves, then a lot of windows system libraries that are used by benchmarks are compiled by ICC. I haven't verified this myself, as I'm not that interested in synthetic benchmarks most review sites use. I should get my hands on some of benchmarking tools and verify what compiler was used to build them- compilers usually leave some strings in executable files.

--Coder

6 or 8 cores (5, Funny)

spaceman375 (780812) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048140)

The chip has eight cores, they all work, but you can only use six. The other two are reserved for the DHS and cronies. I, for one, do NOT welcome our dual-core overlords.

(I've always wanted to start a conspiracy theory.)

Re:6 or 8 cores (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048304)

They're for processing the most efficient flight lanes to use when dusting us with their "contrail" mind control chemicals.

No, the pollen filter in your car won't protect you; They pre-seeded that.

Re:6 or 8 cores (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38048992)

the problem with mind control drugs is that they build a resistance...
the mind is only so fast anyways put too much mind control drugs and it locks up hard, emulating a system crash.
i should know, i am paranoid schizophrenia and without the drugs it's rather a lot like someone replacing my mind with rainbows, which doesn't do me much good, the mind control drugs fix that because having rainbows on the brain is far worse than the mind control.

perhaps it was because my nicknames on the internet are all related to deletion and i've dared use darik's boot and nuke.

DOH ! (1, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048176)

All the new generation, ALL that high price, and it still comes up close with amd's new cpus in multithreaded performance ?

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/11/14/intel_core_i73960x_sandy_bridge_e_processor_review/6 [hardocp.com]

no wonder there have been 3 opteron (bulldozer) supercomputer orders in the last 3 weeks.

Re:DOH ! (1)

PIBM (588930) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048268)

From 46 FPS (AMD 8150, 8 'cores') to 72 FPS (3960x, 6 cores) is close for you ? Wrong link ? Trolled ?

Re:DOH ! (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048306)

MULTITHREADED performance it says. not fps. there are cheaper amd chips which do fps as well with cheaper prices.

Re:DOH ! (2)

PIBM (588930) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048334)

That's the number of frame per second that the MULTITHREADED VIDEO ENCODER was being able to encode. All of the provided benchmark on that page were about video encoding using multithreaded encoders, and the new proc was beating all others easily. That's why I asked if it was the wrong link perhaps?

Re:DOH ! (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048542)

So the target market is those filthy movie pirates?

Next up: the MPAA demands 50% of Intel's profits!

Re:DOH ! (1)

PIBM (588930) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048602)

No kids ? No wife ? No video camera perhaps ? Or just not getting out of your basement ? Encoding 1080p video takes a while, and I should soon start encoding dual stream (3d) 1080p.. That kind of power would be welcome for me (sporting an i7-960 on the computer running the video tools). Anyway, that's the original poster link target..

Re:DOH ! (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048826)

oh yeah. instead of encoding in the time that it takes for me to go get a cup of tea and back, now my encoding will be complete by i reach the door to wc while passing through the corridor from the kitchen to the living room. yes. that totally justifies shelling out $900 to encode my home videos.

Re:DOH ! (1)

PIBM (588930) | more than 2 years ago | (#38049024)

Some people are not bothered by that 900$. Some people will buy the outrageously priced video cards for the limited benefits. You don't need that 80" LCD TV either, but it's nice to have. Shaving 10-15 minutes off my encoding when I want something is nice to have too. Beside, there's much more to be done on a computer that will benefit from this processor. Think about compiling & linking, where the time saved directly correlate to money in the pocket. Not that I would buy this processor, but there's definitely value in it.

Re:DOH ! (1)

kesuki (321456) | more than 2 years ago | (#38049140)

you sir are incorrect, i haven't found the specs online, but only blu-ray devices support 1080p and i was pretty sure 3-d didn't need dual progressive scans but rather two interlaced streams that form a 1080p image. but the wiki on it claimed it uses 50% more overhead suggesting dual 1080p streams. but as the 3ds shows us 3-d doesn't have to mean high definition.

besides 3d is a fad, with 18% of the population unable to watch 3d (seizures) and many more complaining of headaches it's not likely to be widespread.

Re:DOH ! (1)

makomk (752139) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048710)

x264 used to be quite heavily optimized for Intel processors, sometimes at the expense of performance on AMD chips. It's not quite as bad as it once was but...

Re:DOH ! (1)

Shinobi (19308) | more than 2 years ago | (#38049040)

Ignore Unity100, he's astroturfing for AMD's marketing department

Re:DOH ! (1)

PIBM (588930) | more than 2 years ago | (#38049074)

I was actually starting to wonder, and I looked up his recent posts. Definitely the case. Anyway, he's bad at it!

Are we looking at the same chart? (4, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048362)

What I see is the 2600k, the 4 core $300 chip, matching or beating the Bulldozer, and the 3960X beating everything by a decent margin.

You are correct in that the Bulldozer doesn't have much to worry about from the new E series as they are much higher priced and compete in a different market. What it does have to worry about is the regular SB chips, which are killing it. Even when things are stacked in what should be its favour: Heavily threaded tasks, the SB does as good or better. Then if you take many other tasks that are not as multithreaded, the SB pulls way ahead.

THAT is the BD's big problem... Well that and the fact that the Ivy Bridge comes out in a few months. The E series is just for people with too much money. In the consumer market, the regular SB is an amazing performer.

Re:Are we looking at the same chart? (0)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048726)

well you are seeing wrong.

in various important applications like photoshop cs5, dozer bests intel's existing sbs, all.

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1150995-extremetech-analyzing-bulldozer-why-amd-s-25.html#post15475610 [overclock.net]

moreover, you are able to overclock bulldozer to ramp up your performance. and its possible to go to comfortable 5ghz with air coolers.

Re:Are we looking at the same chart? (2)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 2 years ago | (#38049068)

Cool cherry picking, bro. Too bad the 2600k spanks it silly in the vast majority of other tests. Keep clinging to one or two benches as proof of performance while the rest of us laugh at you. And you can't hit 5ghz on air with BD in typical cases. It'll eat enough power to run a small town. A 2600k can do that well enough without blowing your power bill through the roof.

It's always funny seeing AMD fanboys desperately clinging to Faildozer. Most of them had sense enough to realize what a joke it was.

Mac Pro? (1)

CokeBear (16811) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048232)

Could this be the processor for a new Mac Pro? Or will Apple wait for Ivy Bridge.

I've had a Mac Pro (or its predecessor) under my desk for over 10 years now; upgrading regularly. Even if its not the top selling Apple Product, its still the machine that Pros are looking for.

Probalby not (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048480)

Apple uses workstation class components for their Mac Pros. In terms of Xeon CPUs, I'm not sure how Intel is going to handle it. They've had SB Xeons for awhile now, the E7-8830 is an example. They have some features you see in the new SB-E chips, some that you see in the normal SB chips. They are also a different socket from either. I don't know if they plan a separate Xeon line or not.

At any rate, Apple is likely to stick with Xeons, that is just how they do things for better or worse. When will they do it? Who knows? Could be soon, could be never. They seem less and less interested in the pro market all the time.

Re:Mac Pro? (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048504)

It's it's a 10-years-old "Mac Pro", chances are that it's a Power Mac G4. Even a 2010 Mac mini can easily beat that, apart from the hard drives.

If you go from using a PowerMac G4 to even a current day Mac Pro, even the low-end Quad-Core model is going to seem ludicrously fast by comparison.

Re:Mac Pro? (1)

CokeBear (16811) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048866)

I meant that I've had some flavor of Apple Pro product under my desk for 10 years, upgrading every 1-3 years. Not the same machine all that time

But does it crush AMD's new 16 core processor ? (2, Interesting)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048276)

http://venturebeat.com/2011/11/13/amd-introduces-worlds-first-16-core-pc-microprocessor/ [venturebeat.com]

no it doesnt. not when it comes only close with amd's 8 cores in multithreaded apps. 16 cores , becomes unmatchable.

Re:But does it crush AMD's new 16 core processor ? (1)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 2 years ago | (#38049094)

That's a server/workstation CPU. Intel will be pushing out 8 core SB-E Xeons early next year. Then you can start making comparisons.

Re:But does it crush AMD's new 16 core processor ? (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38049148)

early next year, 12-16 core desktop dozers are out. every year, new dozers are out with more cores. that is the amd strategy.

10% != "well ahead" IMHO (1)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 2 years ago | (#38048874)

The Core i7-3960X Extreme Edition finished well ahead of the second-place Core i7-990X

I don't see any benchmark placing the 3960 more than 10% faster than the 990. How can 10%, and under, be "well ahead"? The FPS tests are all under 2% in favor of the 3960. $1,000 + Motherboard upgrade for 2%? With the Icy Bridge you will get a die reduction. This means at least you will get a power consumption drop.

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