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NYPD Dismantling Occupy Wall Street Encampment

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the ministry-of-truth-declares-america-not-a-police-state dept.

United States 933

First time accepted submitter Red_Chaos1 was the first to write with news that, as of around 06:30 UTC, the NYPD appears to have begun removing the encampment of Occupy Wall Street. At 06:34 UTC the Mayor's office issued a tweet declaring: "Occupants of Zuccotti should temporarily leave and remove tents and tarps. Protesters can return after the park is cleared." Around 07:15 UTC the first of several large dumpsters were deposited and the police began throwing tents and other debris into it. Reports also indicate that a Long Range Acoustic Device is on the premises. The police are using helicopters and physical barriers to prevent news coverage, but the Occupiers are streaming the events (alternative stream; #occupywallstreet on irc.indymedia.org is also rather active for those who don't fancy flash or twitter.) As of 09:15 or so, the situation according to those near NYC is that the park has more or less been cleared.

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Something not quite right (5, Insightful)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056910)

I haven't particularly warm-hearted feelings for the Occupy hipsters, but...

The police are using helicopters and physical barriers to prevent news coverage

Seems a bit excessive and somewhat dubious.

Re:Something not quite right (5, Insightful)

GPLHost-Thomas (1330431) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056926)

You think it's "a bit excessive"? Hell, in what kind of country news coverage is forbidden? Next time I'll hear about critics to China, I'll talk about this event!!!

Waste of Time (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057126)

You think it's "a bit excessive"? Hell, in what kind of country news coverage is forbidden? Next time I'll hear about critics to China, I'll talk about this event!!!

Americans are completely and utterly blind to the mis-deeds of their politicians as well as the abuse of their rights by said politiciams. How else can you explain bush junior not being investigated, charged and tried for war crimes (he's already admitted to one)?

Re:Something not quite right (5, Informative)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056996)

The only reason the protestors are in the park is because the police made it clear they'll arrest anyone who dares to actually protest near wall street. The park is designated a 'free speech zone' because it's far enough out of the way that no-one will see them.

Re:Something not quite right (0)

emj (15659) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057028)

How did he police make this clear, do you mean physically by pepper spraying people, or actually telling hem?

Re:Something not quite right (5, Informative)

captainpanic (1173915) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057156)

In the USA, you can't just protest everywhere. They have no real free speech. You only have real free speech in the "Free Speech Zones". Usually, the free speech zones are hidden in places where the sun doesn't shine a lot.

Wikipedia about free speech zones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone [wikipedia.org]

Re:Something not quite right (1, Informative)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057042)

Funny, the last time I looked. That park was private property and they were squatting after they were told to leave.

Re:Something not quite right (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057058)

they were allowed to build higher then the building code allowed because they built the park for public use.

Re:Something not quite right (5, Informative)

emj (15659) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057218)

The cool thing is that these kinds of public/private parks are encouraged in New York since the building of Seagram Building in the sixties [wikipedia.org] , after that building the Zooning Resolution in New York was changed to offer: incentives for developers to install "privately owned public spaces".

Re:Something not quite right (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057060)

The park has to be open and publicly accessible 24 hours a day.

Re:Something not quite right (4, Insightful)

X.25 (255792) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057116)

I haven't particularly warm-hearted feelings for the Occupy hipsters, but...

The police are using helicopters and physical barriers to prevent news coverage

Seems a bit excessive and somewhat dubious.

Seems like that's happening in China. Or Soviet Russia.

Where is this happening, again?

Re:Something not quite right (2)

rikxik (1337017) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057304)

Seems like the oil sipping, gun toting, welfare hating, war mongering Party of Red is running amock with crushing civil liberties.

Which party is in power, again?

Re:Something not quite right (1)

amRadioHed (463061) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057336)

Bloomberg was recently a Republican, but he's an independent currently.

It don't matter what he paints himself with (5, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057388)

He is the 1%. The king and his court are hardly going to be advocating for the foundation of a republic are they?

Remember this next time you watch TV or any other media. How many of the people you see in media are making minimum wage or even an average wage.

For that matter, how many here on slashdot do a real days work? Hint, it is 10:30 in holland as I post this. Do you think a factory worker has the same luxury?

I am not the 1%, I am somewhere in the middle but I came from the bottom and know just how much you can expect from the 1% in caring even the tiniest bit about anyone else. Bloomberg can paint himself with a donkey or an elephant, in reality he is filthy rich and cares only for himself.

Re:Something not quite right (5, Interesting)

niftydude (1745144) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057420)

Seems a bit excessive and somewhat dubious.

I don't want to Godwin this thread - however, it seems that the NYPD has seized the 5000+ book donated library, and thrown all those books in a dumpster.

Excessive is an understatement

good (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38056912)

Good. No one knows what they are protesting anyway. From the looks of the lot I saw, they weren't lacking jobs because they were totally qualified, hard working Americans looking for work. Perhaps a haircut and an education might help you attain wealth quicker than living in a cardboard box on someone else's property.

Re:good (2)

GPLHost-Thomas (1330431) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056938)

Yeah, right, it's just a lazy bunch of hippies with no brain... In what world are you living? Are part of the side of the 1%? Do you really think what they want is just get richer? Also, who's property are you talking about? I have read/seen/heard that they were anywhere else than on public spaces. Also, I think you might be the only person that doesn't know what they are protesting against.

Re:good (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38056986)

ya right because they represent the typical american's point of view. please. read the other comments. the parent is not the only one who thinks the goal is simply to "hate the man".

watch the news. they actually ARE a bunch of lazy hippies. dirty too. the rest of us are too busy with JOBS to sit in a park.

public space is not "their" property either. do you like homeless people camped out in public space? ya i'm super happy when a guy who smells like piss and booz asks my kid for spare change to go buy more. oh ya that's right - don't pick on them either, they can't help it.

Re:good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057062)

ya right because they represent the typical american's point of view. please. read the other comments. the parent is not the only one who thinks the goal is simply to "hate the man".

watch the news. they actually ARE a bunch of lazy hippies. dirty too. the rest of us are too busy with JOBS to sit in a park.

public space is not "their" property either. do you like homeless people camped out in public space? ya i'm super happy when a guy who smells like piss and booz asks my kid for spare change to go buy more. oh ya that's right - don't pick on them either, they can't help it.

... go buy more...piss?

Re:good (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057416)

...watch the news. they actually ARE a bunch of lazy hippies. dirty too...

I'm watching it live now and I don't see a bunch of hippies. I see people so fed up with a corrupt government that they are risking a lot to try to make it right. They are risking their jobs, their health, heck they'll probably get a police record if not worse. Why? They see no future. Their government only listens to corporate lobbyists. Their government gives money out to CEOs but won't help the people. Corporations are ruining their country and nobody else is doing anything. I respect them and hope nobody gets hurt.

Re:good (2)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056998)

Zucotti Park is privately owned.

Re:good (2)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057346)

Simple way to do away with all the pesky rights people have in public spaces: sell the public spaces to private investors, who can then make up arbitrary rules. E.g., in Berlin, Germany, the city council sold the Potsdamer Platz to investors (Sony, Daimler) because it could not be bothered with restoring this important and historic public space to its former glory, after it had been dormant for decades as it lay right at the inner-German border. Until the separation of Germany, Potsdamer Platz had been the urban center of Germany's capital, with all that goes with that. When you enter "Sony Center" today, you are informed by signs that you are not allowed to linger, not allowed to play music, not allowed to express political opinion, etc.

Re:good (3, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057150)

While I do agree that the world is not fair and people have a right to be upset and fearful of a 2nd crash with this dangerous flash trading and debt created by the rich, I do feel these protestors are morons.

Not all of course as I would want to protest for a few hours. However, occupying a public space, supporting socialism, and refusing to get jobs or at least look and just whine out in the cold in a tent is not very smart at all. What do they expect? A trader walking past says, oh poor fellows. Let me tell the CEO of Goldman Sachs to disaband and give all our money back to the people and hire these people to watch other peole do jobs. Shame on us ... YEAH RIGHT!

Start a political party, organize voters house to house, go get a mcJob to start paying down the student loan debts you agreed to pay for (I don't care if it is a 40k a year job starting out), and so on. Doing these things might not get you as successful as the those over 34 or your parents, but it is better than whinning and you can start to do something about it. The Tea Party was smart and taken over the republican party. That is why there was no compromise on the debt ceiling a .001% tax increase will give a (R) a one way ticket out of office from the Tea Party. OWS needs to do the same.

Defacing property with no message is wrong. If anything many support the tentants of communism and socialism that I find a problem rather than a solution.

Re:good (3, Interesting)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057240)

The Tea Party was smart and taken over the republican party.

Tea Party didn't just suddenly appear out of the blue - radicalization of Republican party has happened steadily over the last two decades (accelerating over the last one), so what you see today is just a new label slapped on top of the end result of this process.

Re:good (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057290)

The Tea Party was right leaning, but Sarah Palin give them a speech. So whose it going to be? Democrat or Republican to help your vision? They chose to register and work inside the republican party organized.

These protestors might be liberal oriented but they are not organized in the democratic party. SOme might even be liberatarians. The Tea Party is what kicked 3 senators out. The last one in Alaska had to re-register as an independent and then change back to a republican. I lived in Alaska at the time and I thought that was crazy but the Tea Party fringe ones are just too extreme.

Re:good (5, Informative)

penguinchris (1020961) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056956)

You suggest:

Perhaps a haircut and an education might help you attain wealth quicker than living in a cardboard box on someone else's property.

I dress well, keep my hair cut and my face shaved, I have BS and MS science degrees from good schools. I haven't been able to find a job since finishing grad school - almost two years ago.

There is reason to protest, and the fact that you don't understand what they're protesting is as telling as your non-solution of getting a haircut and an education.

Though I fully support their ideals I wasn't enthralled with most of the crowd in Zuccotti Park when I went to check it out, and I wouldn't join such an occupation myself, but you're attacking the messenger and not the message - because there is very little that is attackable (barring fringe elements).

Re:good (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057162)

Unless you live in bumblefuck nowhere, there are thousands of jobs available around where you live.

The problem is, you want a specific job for a specific amount of money, and won't settle for what's available.

Which is sad, if you haven't taken anything in 2 years. You're unemployed by choice, and that makes your opinion on OWS even funnier.

Re:good (1)

X.25 (255792) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057232)

Unless you live in bumblefuck nowhere, there are thousands of jobs available around where you live.

The problem is, you want a specific job for a specific amount of money, and won't settle for what's available.

Which is sad, if you haven't taken anything in 2 years. You're unemployed by choice, and that makes your opinion on OWS even funnier.

I guess there would be more jobs if you guys didn't need to give 700bil to Goldman and friends for bonuses.

Re:good (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057398)

There are times when a job is more expensive than just being unemployed. For example, commute costs. Not everyone can afford to live in the heart of downtown, and most US cities, bicycling is out of the question unless one wants to risk having a white ghost bike planted in their memory. So, it requires a car and those costs associated with finding parking. Just the $25 per day parking cost can easily be a significant fraction of someone's wages because of the pressure to hire people at min wage and keep them at that.

So, the "occupy a barber shop and employment agency office" claptrap is just plain wrong, and very dangerously close to "let them eat cake."

Who knows. The occupy * movements have had their back broken, and are essentially dead after the synchronized crackdowns, but one has to at least give credit to people willing to risk it all, with the minimum being having to answer "yes" on "have you ever been arrested?" for the rest of their life on every job application or bank form. (And yes, virtually all jobs past McDonalds don't care about *convictions*, they care about *arrests* and NCIC records. Employers view that people can buy their acquittal, but if a police officer considers someone to be such a threat they have to whip out the cuffs and do the paperwork, the arrestee is a criminal, period.)

Re:good (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057216)

Similar situation for me, too: I'm American born and raised with a PhD in biochemistry and I had to move to Asia to find work. Well, I did actually have an American job at the time but the pay put my family below the poverty line - and the Asia job pays about 4X as much - so it amounts to the same thing.

And it's fine with me if Americans don't want science and progress and all that - but don't pretend that it's only uneducated people (with long hair - the horror) who are struggling to find work in the USA.

Re:good (4, Insightful)

billcopc (196330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056968)

It's true that a bunch of pseudo-hippies are crashing the protests, for douche points or whatever scorekeeping is used in the rapacious subculture, but that does not invalidate the handful of actual protestors that started the movement and continue to stand vigil, nor the effect the moment has had in sensitizing the public to some of the more serious issues plaguing North America.

What's particularly ironic is that the NYPD is imposing censorship and using arguably anti-terrorist techniques and tools to squelch a peaceful protest. As if the NYPD needed any more bad press... The power of the Occupy movement is not so much in its stated message, but in the way the corporations and authorities respond to it. It is bringing much needed attention to these crooked organisations and reminding the everyman that the government and its corporate masters are conspiring against him.

Re:good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057032)

Maybe they just want regime change?

You know, just like the Libyans, Syrians and the Egyptians?

Re:good (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057264)

Libyans

They want French and American military to fight a war against their government, and bring them into power?

Land of the not so free! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38056914)

God bless America!

Just wait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38056922)

All they need to do is wait 2-3 more weeks. The weather will chase the bulk of these trust fund rebels out when the high is 30 deg. F. The few remaining will be easy to remove.

Re:Just wait (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057056)

All they need to do is wait 2-3 more weeks. The weather will chase the bulk of these trust fund rebels out when the high is 30 deg. F. The few remaining will be easy to remove.

No, then there would only be the real, core protesters left. They needed to do it now so that they can show it's "just a bunch of hippies".

Re:Just wait (1)

mvdwege (243851) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057092)

And a month ago people were saying the protests would be over by the weekend. They're still there, and in fact popping up in places all over the world.

But hey, criticising from your easy chair while believing the lie that you too can be a millionaire, while one by one your fellows are being chopped out of the middle class is easier, isn't it?

Mart

Another good stream here (5, Informative)

x14n (935233) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056924)

http://www.ustream.tv/TheOther99 [ustream.tv]

Major media helicopters have been forced out of the air by NYPD. Lots of fresh news on twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23occupywallstreet

NYPD Police scanner here:
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?action=wp&feedId=8905

NYPD switchboard isn't taking any more calls:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/home/contact_information.shtml [nyc.gov]

Wrong Time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38056932)

Times are wrong, it's 8:05 UTC as of this posting

repeating a tweet: if just, why 1am (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38056936)

If this is right and legal and just, why wait until 1am to do it? Why? And why bar press? And why the hell didn't you just leave them alone in the first place, ppl would be like: "ppl in the park, protesting, want something" and then "next". But instead, it's sure to backfire. People want to believe the stuff they were taught in elementary school about freedom, etc. *shrugs*

Re:repeating a tweet: if just, why 1am (5, Insightful)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056976)

The USSR was up front about the limits it put on freedom. The US understood that most people are ignored so it's OK to let them mouth off until they're actually listened to, at which point you abuse and restrict them.

The USSR also had job and housing security and good urban worker treatment. The developing system of internal identity checks and consequent restrictions on movement made it hard for all but the system faithful to gain the best positions in these cities, however. As in the USSR.

Re:repeating a tweet: if just, why 1am (5, Insightful)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057270)

The USSR was up front about the limits it put on freedom.

No they weren't, the restrictions were enforced by fear and knocks on the door followed by disappearances. The USSR, much like China today claimed they were open and free. But woe to those who tried to test the limits of that.

Re:repeating a tweet: if just, why 1am (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057286)

The USSR was up front about the limits it put on freedom.

Not true. The Party's power depended on legal ambiguity and the absence of accountability. The USSR had a written constitution guaranteeing freedom of speech and freedom of assembly [wikipedia.org] , but everyone knew that if you actually tried to exercise those rights, you'd enter a grey area in which terrible things would probably happen to you and those you loved - though it was impossible to say exactly what, or when, or on what pretext.

Re:repeating a tweet: if just, why 1am (3, Interesting)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057408)

The USSR had a written constitution guaranteeing freedom of speech

As, in its way, does the US.

Technically the two are different. The US's version is negative: it doesn't guarantee freedom of speech at all but merely restricts the government's ability to restrict speech - in practice the definition of "speech" is arbitrarily restricted and the locations on which free speech can be practiced severely limited. The USSR's version is positive: it describes vaguely how freedom of speech is "guaranteed", i.e. through certain media and locations - procedures and rules to access these resources could be and were used to restrict speech and you didn't get to say what you wanted everywhere else.

In neither country can you say what you think where you want.

...but everyone knew...

Because the constitution had other Articles which limited the possible interpretations of those Articles describing freedoms. And there were laws between the constitution and the people which countered the more general interpretations of certain Articles in the constitution and everyone knew about them. But people in the US are not aware of the limits on their freedom. There's the difference.

The Party's power depended on legal ambiguity and the absence of accountability.

It's true that the system of voting in the USSR wasn't, "Choose n hundred equally impotent representatives who then ignore you and follow the will of the lobbyists already being imposed through unelected civil servants." But there were elections of government bodies at various levels throughout its existence.

terrible things would probably happen to you and those you loved

Stalin's been dead a while.

what time is it? (1)

at10u8 (179705) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056942)

I'm posting at 08:08 UTC

Re:what time is it? (1)

Unknown Lamer (78415) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056958)

Jack Wagner told me we fell back two times...

(or: thanks for catching my arithmetic error ...)

Re:what time is it? (1)

emj (15659) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056966)

3 AM in New York [timeanddate.com]

not too surprising (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38056946)

It has been going on for a couple of months now.

At this point there is no real goal other than 'dismantel the man'.

If you guys are *serious* about staying there and doing something then get a GOAL. Something you can actually achieve. Other than camping out. Winter is coming and it gets cold there.

If your goal is nothing more than being pissed off at the 'man'. Well that has been going on for many generations.

You guys have the will to do something. You just have no idea what exactly you want. Also keep in mind you will need to convince the other 98% of us to think it is a good idea too. Some will join you because they like a 'good cause'. Others will oppose you just because you want to change things. But if all you can come up with is 'i hate the man'. Well, we all do whats your point?

If you do not come up with a concrete goal soon the 'man' will get tired of your BS and toss you on your ear.

Re:not too surprising (5, Insightful)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057012)

Do what? Politics isn't working very well - there are two parties and both serve the rich. There aren't the numbers or popular support for a revolution, and historically those things tend to turn out rather poorly anyway. The protestors want to do something, but there just isn't much they can.

Re:not too surprising (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057276)

Yep.

Someone yelled at me for "being deluded that picking a party matters" but remember the other option in 2008 was a 75 year old man and Sarah Palin. So I decided to do what little I could.

Re:not too surprising (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057366)

There are only two choices, after all...

Re:not too surprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057082)

Do you know how stars are formed? It takes a while though.

4th amendment issue? (4, Interesting)

Dogun (7502) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056954)

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Throwing tents into dumpsters, without issuing a 'vacate or your property is forfeit' order seems like a clear violation to a non-lawyer.

Lawyers? Or have I simply missed something requiring the demonstrators to disperse?

Re:4th amendment issue? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057002)

I'm no doctor, but are you retarded?

Re:4th amendment issue? (2, Informative)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057054)

They've been given a vacate notice. The park is private property, and operates on a 'pro-quid-quo' status as semi-public at the pleasure of the owners who can restrict who can, and can't use it.

Re:4th amendment issue? (3)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057268)

They have been whining for months too. To top it off Foxnews reported they and local businesses held a counter protest and marched to the mayors office on Sunday. The mayor simply responded to their request today.

Re:4th amendment issue? (5, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057188)

No issue. They do not own the land. I spoke with a lady this weekend from the movement and it turned into an argument. Yes, it is public, but there is a reason we have houses. We own them and have no rights under the 4th amendment for property.

It is publically owned, but the public has to vote to let someone use it. they are not 100% of the public as homeless people can not sleep legally at any public place in Las Vegas or Los Angeles. Same principle.

You can be searched because you are breaking the law and you do not own the land. I can bet the mayor did get a judges permit anyway to be clean. A tent is not a home or a dwelling so they can do this.

This seems to show the government doesn't care (3, Insightful)

Sipper (462582) | more than 2 years ago | (#38056962)

By removing protesters, rather than having talks with them, the government is showing the occupy movement that they don't care. People should be allowed to practice peaceful protest, but it seems like the Occupy movement is being repeatedly shown that the government doesn't have a heart. First they were fenced in on the street. Then they were pepper sprayed. Then when it got cold, the fire department came and took away the generators providing heat. Now they're being forcibly removed from where they were camped.

This is really sad, and I don't think any of these things were the correct response.

Re:This seems to show the government doesn't care (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057046)

Checkmate.

OWS will have as much impact to government as the 2003 anti-war protests did when invading Iraq, and that is absolutely none.

Not necessarily... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057076)

Or it could be that anarchists were starting to cause too much trouble for the NYPD (and by extension, Oakland PD) to handle...

This Occupy movement, while having a noble cause, did not use peaceful protests in an effective, coordinated fashion. No leaders were/are both a blessing and a curse. Blessing in that authorities can't find a reason to capture that leader when that leader doesn't exist and curse in that you're seeing the result right now... People getting shot and hit on the head with tear gas dispensers because those crowds agitated the police enough that they felt threatened and reacted towards the perceived threat. The authorities are now cleaning house most likely because they got the okay from the courts to do it. City councils I'm sure have the same power...

I'd love to see an Occupy 2.0 sort of thing, but it's likely not going to happen with public protest unless a few singular people can get themselves together and lead the entire thing. Look at the Civil Rights Movement... eventually a leader came out of it. ;)

Re:This seems to show the government doesn't care (5, Insightful)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057080)

I've noticed that NYC has had the subtle guise of supporting them but selectively enforcing the law. Taking away the generators when it was *really* cold outside because they were a "fire hazard" was one of the standout things that comes to mind. I don't think anyone in the NYC government thought it would last as long as it already has and that these simple actions would break them.

Now that they're dismantling the camps, we'll have to wait and see whether or not the city will actually "let them back in" as they've said they will. Personally I doubt it, but the people who are organizing this thing seem to have their heads on straight.

Honestly, we haven't seen protests on this scale or for this duration since the Vietnam War. The difference is that we're in the age of social media - a time when any citizen can capture National Guard soldiers shooting at unarmed protestors, or police pepper spraying peaceful (but civilly disobedient) people. The city knows that it's walking a very fine line and if they take a misstep they're going to make things far, far worse for them.

I knew this would happen eventually at NYC - this didn't surprise me at all. What *did* surprise me was closing the airspace to news helicopters and shutting down all but 1 subway line as well as a major bridge. *That* honestly frightens me very much. The amazing thing - and one of the reasons I'm so very appreciative to be in my mid-20s during the digital age - is that despite all traditional news media being cut out there's citizen journalists on the ground now recording video and streaming it live to the Internet.

I feel a paradoxically equal amount of pride and revulsion at being an American tonight.

Re:This seems to show the government doesn't care (4, Interesting)

Sipper (462582) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057220)

I've noticed that NYC has had the subtle guise of supporting them but selectively enforcing the law. Taking away the generators when it was *really* cold outside because they were a "fire hazard" was one of the standout things that comes to mind. I don't think anyone in the NYC government thought it would last as long as it already has and that these simple actions would break them.

Now that they're dismantling the camps, we'll have to wait and see whether or not the city will actually "let them back in" as they've said they will. Personally I doubt it, but the people who are organizing this thing seem to have their heads on straight.

Or if they do, I bet you the NYPD will make changes to the area to make it more inhospitable, and then "let them back in" to a much more highly controlled environment. I'm cynical as you can tell, because the government hasn't shown any kind of response that promotes trust.

Honestly, we haven't seen protests on this scale or for this duration since the Vietnam War. The difference is that we're in the age of social media - a time when any citizen can capture National Guard soldiers shooting at unarmed protestors, or police pepper spraying peaceful (but civilly disobedient) people. The city knows that it's walking a very fine line and if they take a misstep they're going to make things far, far worse for them.

I knew this would happen eventually at NYC - this didn't surprise me at all. What *did* surprise me was closing the airspace to news helicopters and shutting down all but 1 subway line as well as a major bridge. *That* honestly frightens me very much.

Yes, the bridges and subways are "choke points". They shut the bridges down after 9/11 similarly.

The amazing thing - and one of the reasons I'm so very appreciative to be in my mid-20s during the digital age - is that despite all traditional news media being cut out there's citizen journalists on the ground now recording video and streaming it live to the Internet.

I feel a paradoxically equal amount of pride and revulsion at being an American tonight.

There's been an increasing amount of attempt at regulating the internet, there are major internet "choke points" at telecom switching networks, and at ISPs, so I share your concern. I'm hoping the work going on into distributed DNS systems outside of governmental control get completed and grow to be robust and popular, which should help some -- but there isn't a good solution for "last mile" connectivity yet, and that will be the next major concern to try to figure out.

Re:This seems to show the government doesn't care (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057248)

In Utah and Portland I read the cities put up baracades claiming it is was to fix the parks. IN the chaos the protestors wont know where to protest and the hope is it will disabanded.

This is not a Vietnam style protest at all. Those had tens of thousands of people. In my city of Tampa, there are a full 21 people ... whoa wahoo...

New York has maybe 100 staying out of 14 million people who live there. In the 1960s students were being killed, the media was lying, tens of thousands protested and took over Berkeley. Students were beaten with batons. Not even in the same scale.

The baby boomers had a stronger work ethic too since their parents grew up in the great depression. They worked and protested when not at work. These kids even admitted on TV that they had crappy jobs so they want to stay here instead and then wonder why they can't pay their loans because they are not working and expect us to bail them out.

FYI I support protesting and taking corruption out of politics and protesting. However, I would rather apply for jobs and be responsible than to sit in a tent and whine in the cold. That does not help myself and the students in the 1960s were smart enough to realize this.

Re:This seems to show the government doesn't care (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057254)

we'll have to wait and see whether or not the city will actually "let them back in" as they've said they will.

Sure they will. Just no tents and no field kitchens. And no gatherings of more than five. So as to not disturb the public peace, you know.

Re:This seems to show the government doesn't care (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057104)

> the government doesn't have a heart
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

Re:This seems to show the government doesn't care (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057180)

because you and me both are nothing more than slaves for those in power and those who make money.

We are to shut our mouths and obey, actually practicing the constitution is illegal.

Re:This seems to show the government doesn't care (1)

Sipper (462582) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057234)

because you and me both are nothing more than slaves for those in power and those who make money.

That may indeed be what they want, but increasingly it's being shown that that's not what they're going to get.

Re:This seems to show the government doesn't care (2, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057206)

Occupying is not a peaceful protest. They are living in an illegal space and not protesting. I think they forgot this part.

They are protected to protest as long as they want but not sleep, deface, or occupy public property. That is not a right.

OWS, America, and The American Dream (0)

grumpygrodyguy (603716) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057040)

The American Dream [youtube.com]

Re:OWS, America, and The American Dream (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057238)

The American Dream: To sit on your ass, whining in a park about not getting free stuff.

Now there's an American Dream the whole world can toast the end of.

Re:OWS, America, and The American Dream (2)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057402)

I wonder if it's also the American Dream to make generalizations and straw men.

update (2)

terpri (853344) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057064)

According to the Livestream, at least 200 people remain and they are being arrested.

Re:update (2)

terpri (853344) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057096)

The people in the kitchen locked themselves to fixed structures; they were tear-gassed and are being arrested.

Re:update (2)

terpri (853344) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057210)

Correction: they may or may not have been tear-gassed; some people are claiming fire extinguishers were used (there is obviously some kind of gas being used in the video coming from the kitchen)

well, bbc is covering (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057098)

funny, after all the libya, egypt etc stuff.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15732661 [bbc.co.uk]
even funnier is the mayor issuing statements.. ON FUCKING TWITTER. WTF MAN?

why not just wait for the winter? if they got a place to go, they're not going to stay in the park..

How is this news for nerds? (0, Troll)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057102)

I have a hunch this is here simply because it shows a US police force in a bad light, and there's nothing Slashdotters love more than a chance to rag on the US establishment.

If, instead, Slashdot intends to broaden out into non-nerd news - when will we start seeing stories about the women who are charging Herman Cain with sexual misbehavior? How about the pedophilia and rape allegations against former PSU coach Jerry Sandusky? Can we expect coverage of this year's MLB free agent market, and reporting of any rumors regarding potential landing spots for Prince Fielder and Albert Pujols?

Re:How is this news for nerds? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057154)

How is this news for nerds?

It's news to everyone, including nerds.

Unlike, say, football. And I've never heard of those last two folks you mentioned, so I doubt they'll make it on here anytime soon.

Originally, there were some good points made. (5, Interesting)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057106)

The protesters made some good points:

Chrony Capitalism coupled with inflation really has created a system where money comes out of the void, shoots to the top and by the very existence of that new money being created causes the money other people hold to decline in value.

Wall Street without a doubt orchestrated the creation of this system.

HOWEVER Wall Street people are the wrong ones to protest. Companies exist to make money by whatever means legal, and in some cases not legal. The bottom line is companies exist to make money. You invest in whatever company is most capable of doing that.

The problem lies in chronyism. A company that participates in chronyism isn't doing anything wrong, it's a means to an end in the companies goal of accumulating money. The corrupt government playing ball with chronies on the other hand IS doing something wrong.

Our government representatives are supposed to represent the people. When they begin to self-serve instead of serve the people they are doing something wrong.

By protesting Wall Street they're sending the message they don't want anyone to make money. If they were to "occupy the mall" instead and focus all of their energies and talent into figuring out the mechanics of every bribe, kick-back, vote trade, intimidation tactic, threat and dishonest move of every politician in Washington and create something akin to Wikipedia devoted specifically to those ends with as much evidence as possible we would be putting the real problem back in check. Unfortunately our three branch balance of power is out of balance, I blame the executive and legislative branches for pushing it out of balance and I blame the judicial branch for actively endorsing the shift in balance.

I don't get an actual feeling the OWSers are motived to fix things. I get a sense of "I'm fucking with you because I can" and I get the feeling they're pushing for a fascist communist/socialist shift. As with every large movement it's obviously not an across the board thing, but I do feel that it's the general consensus, and I'm also starting to suspect outside driving forces, in much the same way the Egyptian government had paid pro-government protesters to clash with the grass-roots protesters some time back. With the OWS crowd they wouldn't need more than a couple of key charismatic people placed in each camp.

In short theres a real problem that needs fixing, but I feel the motive of the protesters is to insert an agenda instead of actually fixing the problem.

Re:Originally, there were some good points made. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057160)

so, you don't know what Wall Street is, or how to spell crony.

You need to learn what finance is about. See http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2011/10/a-note-prolegomenon-to-any-useful-discussion-of-modern-american-finance.html [typepad.com]

Re:Originally, there were some good points made. (2, Insightful)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057208)

The way I've always seen it is once you start calling people names or nitpicking spelling and grammar you've already lost your argument.

Re:Originally, there were some good points made. (3, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057272)

I dunno, protesting wall street works for me in a couple of ways (I mean as an idea, I'm not even american so I'm not actually going to go and protest).

What's legal is not necessarily moral. Companies do have a duty to profit but they don't have a duty to -

  • Play number games that massively, massively enrich themselves without a shred of productive work being done.
  • Buy laws that help them profit at others expense.
  • Encourage other companies to drop ethics/morals, outsource everything and exploit the third world mercilessly while they're at it.
    • Secondly, protesting Wall Street rather than the seat of government also makes it damn clear that they're protesting the financial system and situation, not just being generic angry people.

      OTOH, if they had gone to protest in DC, one wonders if they would have had a lot more sympathy from the right-wing end of the press....

Re:Originally, there were some good points made. (3, Insightful)

Attack DAWWG (997171) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057330)

and I get the feeling they're pushing for a fascist communist/socialist

Fascist communist/socialist?

You don't have the slightest fucking clue what any of these terms mean, do you? You're just stringing together a bunch of terms that Fox News tells you vaguely to hate.

Re:Originally, there were some good points made. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057406)

Yeah it was the cronies that sold the bundled derivative loans they knew wouldn't be paid back... Wall Street is innocent.

The occupy movement is getting ridiculous. (2)

thegarbz (1787294) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057112)

I'm not sure how the original wall street movement is going, but it has spread to cities around the world. The one we had in our local small city was ridiculous. As much as I'm happy to defend the right for people to peacefully protest it seemed to turn into more of a tent slum in the middle of our nice city parks, a park which is for everyones use.

While I'm all for their protest, in face of cancelling a major event that is hosted in the park annually I'm glad that our council gave them a move on order. Not as excessive as this NYPD action, but the protestors did make their point and it's time to let the rest of us also enjoy the public property they decided to essentially squat on.

Re:The occupy movement is getting ridiculous. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057316)

Or, simply put: "yeah, shut up already, let me watch my favorite TV-shows and consume other entertaining media peacefully".

Well, bad news - you ignore these "smelly hippies" for too long, and then it's either them, or police forces who's killing you and your family with gunfire, while you watch helplessly. Libya anyone?

Re:The occupy movement is getting ridiculous. (4, Insightful)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057362)

So in other words, you're fine with protests so long as they're out of sight, out of mind, and have no hope of actually affecting anything. Got it.

Campers (4, Insightful)

soundguy (415780) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057124)

No one has ever accomplished a goddamn thing by "camping out". You protest during business hours when you can get people's attention and when media bureaus are active and fully staffed, then you go home, take a shower, and sleep in a warm bed. In the morning, you go back and do it again. Rinse, repeat.

The only attention these knoblickers are attracting by sleeping in a New York park is from the rats and the homeless.

Re:Campers (5, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057282)

More importantly, you protest the authority by defying it, not by obediently going where they tell you to go, and ranting there. They lost the moment they were restricted from, you know, actually occupying Wall Street - and headed over to the park, instead of saying "fuck you, we're gonna stay here".

Of course, this means being tear gassed, beaten up, arrested, and possibly paying a fine or even serving time. That's what civil disobedience is about. And that can actually change things, especially when people around become concerned about why their fellow countrymen are willing to go through such hardship. That's how it worked in Egypt and Tunisia.

Re:Campers (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057328)

If they want to really make a point they need to go door to door and register to vote and become politically active and occupy Washington DC for a day or two.

Civil Disobedience is an option when you have no power, like being black pre 1964 civil rights act, living in British controlled India, or under an Egyptian dictatorship where you have no power to vote or expression.

They accomplish nothing but their own missery and even peril by not being responsible and working or looking for work,

Re:Campers (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057386)

Civil Disobedience is an option when you have no power, like being black pre 1964 civil rights act ... where you have no power to vote or expression.

Blacks pre-Civil Rights Act had both right to vote, and freedom of speech.

In any case, in today's America, right to vote matters little due to the way political system is structured. Both parties are opposed to what OWS folk are preaching, so voting for either is not really an option.

Re:Campers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057380)

They camped out in Egypt, dipshit.

The right to protest... (1, Insightful)

Gravis Zero (934156) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057226)

is gone.

Re:The right to protest... (3, Informative)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057300)

Or at least the "right" to squat on someone else's property for several months while defying eviction orders.

America, the fascist republic. (0)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057246)

Anyone yet objecting to this definition ?

This country is dying. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057250)

I love how the reason for clearing it is because the very businesses they are protesting complained. So the city acted.

Shows how much people matter.

I'm watching this, and thinking. "This country is dying."

The people no longer matter.

Occupy Political Party (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38057308)

We need an international "Occupy Political Party" now! We need new Chiefs of Police and new Mayors and City Council people. This can really be a think globally act locally political party. We need people in the USA and the EU and Asia and Africa and Everywhere voting for local and regional people that support the rights of the 99%. If the elected officials want to silence us than we need new elected officials, and the new officials need to be Us!

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/mcwfu/we_need_an_occupy_political_party/

Questioning legitimacy of the political system (2, Insightful)

bkmoore (1910118) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057338)

I think the reason the government and mainstream media are uneasy with the Occupy Wall Street movement is it is basically saying the government in its current form no longer represents the will of most American people. Governments do not like having their legitimacy called into question. No other american protest movement in my life time has done this.

Denying media to report what's happening - fail (3, Interesting)

Pecisk (688001) | more than 2 years ago | (#38057374)

NYPD has some valid reasons to clean that park (as it is private and not everything happens by the book), but they totally drop the ball with trying to control it as much as possible - it is already crying out loud "dictatorship".

As for OWS - those people should understood that only protesting nothing will change - they have to get into politics at this moment. Two party system have failed US, because currently elites of both parties are drawn in lobby money and are constantly encycled by rich people. Even if someone like Obama wants really to do something (I'm not saying that he did or does), usually such initiatives are leveled with low level complaining. If it doesn't work, "unamerican", "socialist", etc. arguments comes up. You know how it works.

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