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OpenSUSE 12.1 Released

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the lizard-people-for-parliment dept.

SuSE 174

MasterPatricko writes "The openSUSE project is proud to present the release of openSUSE 12.1! This release represents more than eight months of work by our international community and brings you the best Free Software has to offer. Improvements include the latest GNOME 3.2 desktop as well as the newest from KDE, XFCE and LXDE; your ownCloud made easy with mirall; Snapper-shots of your file system on btrfs; and much, much more. Other notable changes include moving from sysvinit to systemd, improving the boot process, and being built on GCC 4.6.2 including link-time optimization. More packages than ever are available from the openSUSE instance of the Open Build Service, and soon you'll be able to create customized respins on SUSE Studio."

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174 comments

frosty piss (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38075950)

frist post

Woot! (1, Funny)

HarrySquatter (1698416) | more than 2 years ago | (#38075990)

Woot! All 3 users are jizzing in unison over this announcement!

Actually (1)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076328)

I've been a suse user since 8.1, and have tried many distros (ubuntu, debian, gentoo, mandriva, fedora, etc). I prefer suse. So yes I use openSuSe on my laptop and desktop.

You must feel so proud of yourself... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076644)

Until 12.2 arrives...

I got news for you: OpenSuse 12.1 is already old. That's why I compile my own sources from the maker. I'm not even compliant to Linux From Scratch.

Re:You must feel so proud of yourself... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076762)

Good for you, you must be a real man. I bow down before you and your hordes of concubines.

Re:You must feel so proud of yourself... (3, Informative)

Stormtrooper42 (1850242) | more than 2 years ago | (#38077554)

Well, there's this repository ("Tumbleweed" they call it) that basically turns OpenSUSE into a rolling release distro.
It's optional, though, and not enabled by default.

Re:Actually (2)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076816)

Hmm, I use to use Mandriva (Mandrake before that) and am on kubuntu now. It's been well over ten years since I tried SUSE, iirc the only probelm I had with it was a flaky video driver, and from what I've seen since I'm pretty sure they've patched that one up. I'll have to give it another try.

Wouldn't you know it, I just upgraded my kubuntu box over the weekend. Oh, well.

I was happy to find that the latest kubuntu has Samba turned on by default, and was able to see shares from my win 7 notebook, and then at lunch today was chagrined that it stopped working. How is Samba support in Suse?

Re:Actually - Me too (1)

InspectorGadget1964 (2439148) | more than 2 years ago | (#38077732)

I have been using SuSE since before the OpenSuSE distro appeared. Since SuSE 6.0 and I have seen no reason to change to another distro. OpenSuSE is well designed, robust and does everything I need done (Except sex). If you don’t like it, go and use something else and do not bother people that are certainly wiser than you!

Re:Actually (1, Troll)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#38079144)

I *used* to be a SuSE user, until Novell made deal and took massive monies from Microsoft. To hell with Novell

Re:Woot! (3, Interesting)

nzac (1822298) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076618)

I assume you have never actually used openSUSE.

Its a European distro so is never on the American "list" of distos that are recommend to try. Novel going with microsoft never helped though that's the excuse to troll it now rather than having any current justification that MS has effected openSUSE.

Nope, I tried SuSE (4, Interesting)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076878)

That's silly. When Novell bought SuSE, they gave away kits at nearly every consumer electronics show, including those in america, that's how I got mine. They also offered to mail them out free if you couldn't find one in your local area. That was for SuSE 9. I've still got mine. Prior to that, a friend had been paying for SuSE since 7 (I'm not sure what the deal was, apparently it was hard to obtain free because of YaST, or update services, or something?). At the time though, I was getting into Fedora and had a much easier time with it. I didn't want to use SuSE because you did everything through their proprietary configuration interface (YaST), and I wanted to learn a more "standard" way of doing things that would apply to all distros. Since I was just testing the waters at that point, I didn't want to have to learn something I couldn't use elsewhere. Not only that, but many how-tos would refer to editing .conf files, and YaST would throw up errors and try to replace my manually configured file every time I wanted to do something like this. It also seemed much easier to find .rpms for RedHat, or .debs for Debian.

Ultimately I ended up using Ubuntu, because at one point there was a controversy over Fedora with regards to versions not being supported very long or at all, or being bleeding-edge-only, and I wanted something a little more stable. I also got bogged down in RPM hell because I did want to try certain packages that were not officially supported, and repositories that packaged them didn't have common dependencies, and although I tried compiling the software myself, there were compile issues I had trouble resolving for certain software.

Now I'm trying out Debian, to gain experience and progress in my knowledge of the GNU/Linux platform on something that's not too far off from what I'm using now.

Re:Nope, I tried SuSE (3, Interesting)

wintercolby (1117427) | more than 2 years ago | (#38077058)

Actually, all decent Linux distros come with some form of proprietary configuration tool. One can configure SuSE and OpenSuSE about as easily as RedHat, in fact most of the configuration files and log files are identical between the two. The big difference there is that SuSE has an excellent configuration tool where one can go to do all of their GUI administration. It's really well done, and makes RH tools remind me of Windows for Workgroups. Any good admin can configure their system quickly from the command line, I make many of my modifications with sed, awk or vi. You don't have to use the very well made config tool if you don't want to.

Re:Nope, I tried SuSE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38078496)

It's nice in that the ncurses version is pretty much the same as the GUI version, and I appreciate the ability to store the configuration and deploy it among multiple workstations, but I'd still like to have the knowledge to do that manually, and I found that the interface mostly got in the way of doing this. I was just interested in this for desktop use, and the enterprise tools had a lot of options I didn't need.

Re:Nope, I tried SuSE (2)

pnutjam (523990) | more than 2 years ago | (#38077184)

I adopted SUSE back in the 8.x days because the only spare computer I had was an old laptop. I tried dozens of linux versions and only SUSE reliabley detected hardware and allowed me to use the wireless card. OpenSUSE still has better hardware detection then any other linux distribution. For awhile I switched to Ubuntu because some sofware was packaged for debian and not for suse, but the Suse has been closing that gap agressivley. Suse Studio is also one of the most amazing products. I will be starting my torrent later tonight.

I am a very satisfied OpenSUSE user!

Re:Nope, I tried SuSE (2)

nzac (1822298) | more than 2 years ago | (#38077228)

I am referring to home desktop usage as I assume the OP was. Such as in i don't like Ubuntu/fedora /. recommends fedora/Ubuntu and if you don't like that try Mint/Debian and if those fail well you wont like Arch/gentoo so you may as well go back to windows. Notice that openSUSE is ignored. I think opensuse should be the second recommended 'fall-back', after 'fedora/Ubuntu'.

I didn't want to use SuSE because you did everything through their proprietary configuration interface (YaST), and I wanted to learn a more "standard" way of doing things that would apply to all distros.

I'm fairly sure for some (possibly all Yast appears to read config files for the options) options is just a front end to a config file when you don't feel like reading the man/web page for the available options you don't have to use it but sometimes it saves time and stress.

Not a linux user, are you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076924)

OpenSUSE is one of the most widespread distributions in existence, particularly for enterprise solutions. (Yes, I realize you wouldn't be aware of that sitting in your parents' basement playing warcraft.)

Re:Not a linux user, are you? (1)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076988)

That would be SLES not OpenSuSE.

Re:Not a linux user, are you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38079042)

Considering that openSUSE is relatively conservative (unlike eg. Fedora which is cutting edge) it is a rather safe bet for corporations. With "Evergreen" there is even free long term support available.

Re:Woot! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38078640)

Yay, someone spent 8 months on something that didn't even work properly the last time they released it. Let me guess: more drivers removed, more cloud, facebook and twitter, more compact touchscreen UI gadgets that are completely irrelevant to the increasingly common monitor format known as HD to those of us that acually own a desktop workstation Wich distro will be the first to only include drivers for hardware less than 12 months old and call it a 'feature'?

Re:Woot! (2)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 2 years ago | (#38079718)

Yay, someone spent 8 months on something that didn't even work properly the last time they released it. Let me guess: more drivers removed, more cloud, facebook and twitter, more compact touchscreen UI gadgets that are completely irrelevant to the increasingly common monitor format known as HD to those of us that acually own a desktop workstation Wich distro will be the first to only include drivers for hardware less than 12 months old and call it a 'feature'?

Sorry, but you want the "Trolling Ubuntu" articles. Though with the damage Unity has done, no need to troll - it will disappear by itself.

Re:Woot! (1)

craigminah (1885846) | more than 2 years ago | (#38079326)

Love OpenSuse cuz its one of the last mainstream distorts that hasn't been dumbed down via Gnome 3 or Unity. LXDE, XFCE, and KDE aren't a good alternative IMHO.

I may give this a go... (3, Interesting)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076010)

I've been on Ubuntu for some time now, but with 11.04 and 11.10, it's not been as stable as I'd like.

Plus, the last time I used JAD 1.0 (based on Suse) it was rock solid. Anybody know the specifics of what's installed besides desktop environs? That seems to be all they've listed at their site.

Re:I may give this a go... (5, Informative)

halfaperson (1885704) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076108)

Here is a detailed list: http://en.opensuse.org/Product_highlights [opensuse.org]

Snapper/btrfs (1)

mx+b (2078162) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076228)

I am curious about the btrfs filesystem and the Snapper (file snapshots and backup/restoration) usage, but I have been a bit afraid to use it as my main fs since I do not believe I have seen an official stable btrfs and tools release. Does anyone have experience with btrfs, is it production ready? (not necessarily for a server, but you know, would hate to lose any of my personal data - sure I can make backups but I prefer reliable things)

Re:Snapper/btrfs (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076312)

it is definitely not production ready.
It doesn't have a fsck tool yet, which means any kind of inconsistency will make your fs unusable.
there is a btfs fsck out already, but it only detects corruption, and doesn't fix it (the major problem).

Re:Snapper/btrfs (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38078262)

Same here, have been wanting something like this for ages - as easy as taking a VirtualBox snapshot and rolling back. Perfect for testing those software installs that might screw up your system. Great for supporting users as well.

Re:I may give this a go... (1)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076410)

No Rosegarden in their repository. Bummer. Last time I tried to install it from source it was a total PITA.

I beg your pardon (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076622)

They never promised you a rose garden.

Re:I beg your pardon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38077048)

Dang you, Anonymous Coward, if infact that is your real name. Shame on you for stealing my joke even before I had a chance to think if it. You're like the Denis Leary to my Bill Hicks.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a room full of developers (of open suse or Ubuntu studio (which i think was the distro whose menu I was staring at while I asked why no rosegarden)), all hunched faces close to their monitors synchronously to raise their heads and look at the camera/you and burst out singing that line? I think that would be neat.

Re:I may give this a go... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076814)

https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=rosegarden&project=multimedia%3Aapps

I see that 12.1 is not a enabled buildtarget yet, but it probably will be real soon.

Re:I may give this a go... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076894)

It's not in the main repository, but there is a Rosegarden package in one of the additional repositories - http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/openSUSE_12.1/ [opensuse.org] .

Package search is helpful:
http://software.opensuse.org/search?q=rosegarden&baseproject=openSUSE%3A12.1&lang=en&exclude_debug=true [opensuse.org]

Re:I may give this a go... (1)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 2 years ago | (#38078884)

It's not in the main repository, but there is a Rosegarden package in one of the additional repositories - http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/openSUSE_12.1/ [opensuse.org] .

Package search is helpful: http://software.opensuse.org/search?q=rosegarden&baseproject=openSUSE%3A12.1&lang=en&exclude_debug=true [opensuse.org]

Thanks for that! I was looking under the multimedia section - silly me.

Seriously, thanks.

Re:I may give this a go... (3, Interesting)

recrudescence (1383489) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076926)

I find this comment interesting. Rosegarden was the first time I compiled something from source in years and thought "This is how compiling from source should be like!"
In particular, it was the first program that offered me a concise but inclusive list of all the commands that I would need on my system, and the packages that provide them, before going on to compile at all. No crappy 'configure, oops you're missing this, retry' business. If only this requirement had been made a gnu standard ages ago!

choices are good (0, Troll)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076016)

Choices are good, but regardless of this axiom I cannot shake off the sense that something is wrong with Suse because of Novell/Microsoft connection. It's just tainted for me for this reason and I can't get over it.

Re:choices are good (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076054)

Then you are a zealot and are no longer a reasonable person.

Re:choices are good (1)

FlyingGuy (989135) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076062)

Baby with the bathwater much?

Re:choices are good (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076096)

You are maybe right. But that does not change my perception. Do you know - image is important. I see now Novell and Microsoft as a couple of conspirators together for whatever reason. Maybe I am 100% wrong, it doesn't matter. It's impossible to get rid of the taint.

Re:choices are good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38077138)

>Baby with the bathwater much?

Well, if you had lots of babies - siblings, all performing the same tasks adequately - and one of them made a deal with Microsoft, wouldn't you throw that one out with the dirty water if any of the others could do what babies are supposed to do well enough?

Besides, there are too many humans as it is. Throwing this particular baby out would have synergistic effects in areas besides freedom.

Re:choices are good (4, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076120)

Suse once had great font rendering on LCD screens due to their version of XOrg implementing proper font rendering and hinting.

Cleartype fonts semi existence thanks to the MS deal. They are crippled intentionally and butt ugly on purpose because MS wants you to use Windows instead. I refuse to use SuSE and yes the deal harmed Suse and crippled their own product.

Re:choices are good (3, Insightful)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076182)

yes, and it is just one reason. But it is deeper than that. It's about Novell working with MS in principle. I am sure many don't see it that way and they will point fingers here and say: you are biased, a zealot, blah blah.

Well, it's perception, and that is near as important as reality (and in this case it is even more important.)

Once a company is tainted by working with the likes of Microsoft or say Oracle, that's it. Sure, at work many people have to use products from these companies, but that's not what I am talking about.

The question of-course is: IS perception really that important (never mind the actual problems with the deal itself)? Is it important and how important, in terms of how many people refuse to deal with Novell for this reason alone.

Re:choices are good (2)

vurian (645456) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076542)

You do know Suse is no longer owned by Novell, right? That it's been spun off as a separate company again by Attachmate?

Re:choices are good (3, Interesting)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076552)

Once a company is tainted by working with the likes of Microsoft or say Oracle, that's it.

Oracle isn't even in the same ballpark as MS. MS has actively been trying to harm Linux and OSS with its patent extortion and racketeering, and only now has someone (Barnes & Noble) finally stood up to them and release the info on the patents in question (which of course have turned out to be totally bogus with tons of prior art not to mention total lack of non-obviousness). MS has been actively hostile to Linux and OSS ever since these became popular, and is only getting worse. What has Oracle done to OSS? Nothing I can think of. They even bought Sun and kept OpenOffice.org as an OSS product; of course, they handled it in a totally incompetent manner causing a fork, and are now throwing in the towel, but this doesn't come close to being a malicious action like those of MS. Oracle hasn't been much of a friend to OSS, but they haven't been much of an enemy of it either. They even have their own Linux distro that they try to push with their proprietary database software. They also bought MySQL and haven't killed that or taken it proprietary either. Honestly, I don't know what's with all the Oracle hatred. They have a few OSS products that they semi-competently (or incompetently for OO.o) handle, they haven't been suing Linux users over bogus patents, what's the problem?

Re:choices are good (1)

sourcerror (1718066) | more than 2 years ago | (#38080010)

B-b-but but but Google is good, and Oracle sued them, so Oracle is bad. (I agree on that software patents are really bad.)

Re:choices are good (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38080138)

I am disgusted with Oracle almost as much as I am with MS. It's because of their business practices, I worked in too many places where I saw people working as 'technical consultants', being in reality Oracle sales personnel, pushing their products, be it BEA or Aqualogic or whatever flavor of the month. It didn't matter what the question was, the answer was always the same - Oracle, oracle, oracle. And I don't have a problem with their database for large stuff, but I can't stand their guts because of all the BRIBERY that I saw. Is that a good enough reason? Bribes. Bribes to management, not directly as in money, but all the things, the 'seminars' done at some resorts, the tickets to games, all the 'golf playing' - that's how the decisions are being done and I vomit from their name.

Re:choices are good (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 2 years ago | (#38080098)

But it is deeper than that. It's about Novell working with MS in principle ... Once a company is tainted by working with the likes of Microsoft or say Oracle, that's it.

Linus Torvalds has said he has no problems working with MS or any other company. As he put it, "Microsoft hatred is a disease" [arstechnica.com] .

I'm a big believer in "technology over politics". I don't care who it comes from, as long as there are solid reasons for the code, and as long as we don't have to worry about licensing etc issues. I may make jokes about Microsoft at times, but at the same time, I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease. I believe in open development, and that very much involves not just making the source open, but also not shutting other people and companies out. There are 'extremists' in the free software world, but that's one major reason why I don't call what I do 'free software' any more. I don't want to be associated with the people for whom it's about exclusion and hatred.

"extremists" - in other words, freetards like RMS, and, evidently, you. Sad, really.

And further, here [linux-mag.com] :

âoeI agree that itâ(TM)s driven by selfish reasons, but thatâ(TM)s how all open source code gets written! We all âoescratch our own itchesâ. Itâ(TM)s why I started Linux, itâ(TM)s why I started git, and itâ(TM)s why I am still involved. Itâ(TM)s the reason for everybody to end up in open source, to some degree.

So complaining about the fact that Microsoft picked a selfish area to work on is just silly. Of course they picked an area that helps them. Thatâ(TM)s the point of open source â" the ability to make the code better for your particular needs, whoever the âyourâ(TM) in question happens to be.

Does anybody complain when hardware companies write drivers for the hardware they produce? No. That would be crazy. Does anybody complain when IBM funds all the POWER development, and works on enterprise features because they sell into the enterprise? No. That would be insane.

So the people who complain about Microsoft writing drivers for their own virtualization model should take a long look in the mirror and ask themselves why they are being so hypocritical.â

So, since Linus cooperates with Microsoft (even the SAMBA team is now taking patches from Microsoft), what OS are you going to switch to? OSX? They've cooperated with Microsoft in the past. Plan9? Won't you be running that on Intel? Intel cooperates with Microsoft. And Microsoft is now working with ARM ...

I guess it's time for you to stop being a hypocrite and go on eBay to look for an old Atari800, since ALL Linux, and all current hardware, is "contaminated" by Microsoft. Let us know how that works out for you with your 8k of ram (48k max)... oops - Atari BASIC by Microsoft. Sorry. Guess you'll have to stop using computers entirely now.

Re:choices are good (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38080158)

You can preach your vomit inducing 'enterprise' level bribery if you like. I am not interested [slashdot.org] , go sell Oracle licenses to somebody over at resorts.

Re:choices are good (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 2 years ago | (#38080596)

Where in my post did I mention Oracle? Oh, I didn't. Where in my post did I mention anything "enterprisy"? Oh, again, I didn't.

What I did do was point out that even Linus thinks freetards need to grow up, take a bath, and stop hating on the competition.

Re:choices are good (1)

rim_namor (2454342) | more than 2 years ago | (#38080794)

Oracle is just a metaphor, same as MS, it doesn't matter which one it is.

Why should one STOP hating on the competition even? There is no rational reason NOT to hate 'competition', but it's not about competition.

In fact Windows XP or 2000 are pretty decent systems, and so what? The hate is not about their products, it's about them as entities. The companies, their behavior, their entitlement. They have the money and so they are 'entitled' to waltz into anything with their bribes, and that's what they do.

Bribes and politics, that's what these guys are involved in. Products? Products don't matter. It's the companies and their behavior.

This is not even about free source or open source, it's about these particular entities - companies.

MS, Oracle - those are just two. I don't need to start a list here, it will not be too short unfortunately. Whatever you have to say, keep it.

Re:choices are good (3, Interesting)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38080102)

The reason why Windows fonts look ugly on FreeTypeis because they have embedded hints that are hand-tuned to look pixel-perfect on Windows font rasterizer (with or without ClearType). Unless your font renderer works exactly the same as ClearType, you won't have them looking as good.

Re:choices are good (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076318)

It's not a religion, people.

Right?
RIGHT? ...you guys?

Re:choices are good (2)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076372)

It doesn't have to be a religion to be disgusted enough with something. I don't have a problem with quite a number of companies (even though I am probably wearing rose colored glasses there as well), but MS and Oracle are two examples of companies that I can't stand in terms of their basic behavior.

I would not deal with them on voluntary basis, why is that a religion? If not dealing with them includes not dealing with large companies who have agreements with those particular businesses, then I don't want to deal with them by proxy either. How is that a religion?

There is a practical matter here as well - I don't want any part of my time or money going towards those companies, even if by proxy in any way shape or form. It's a choice.

Re:choices are good (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076570)

What's the problem with Oracle? It's not like they're running around trying to extort money from Linux-based device makers using bogus patents they refuse to reveal. The only thing to be mad at them about is how incompetently they handled OO.o, but it doesn't matter anyway since LO is doing just fine.

Re:choices are good (1)

Shimbo (100005) | more than 2 years ago | (#38077530)

What's the problem with Oracle? It's not like they're running around trying to extort money from Linux-based device makers using bogus patents they refuse to reveal.

It looks very like that to me, except that Oracle went after Google directly. They still want their piece of Android though.

Re:choices are good (1)

rim_namor (2454342) | more than 2 years ago | (#38080478)

They are a patent whore.
They are a whore in general, whoring themselves out in any large company with so called 'technical consultants', who are in reality sales whores, just pushing Oracle for everything, and apparently the management was always happy to buy yet another piece of shit Oracle product (Aqualogic, as a great example of real real fecal matter, the kind that makes goatse and tubgirl look and feel like those who OCD over microbes on their hands).

It's disgusting from start to finish, what can I say. I always recommend something else.

Re:choices are good (2)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076890)

You don't have to be religious to have an irrational hatred of everything Microsoft. Being an idiot is perfectly sufficient.

Re:choices are good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076438)

can't post anything without somebody getting offended.

Feelings, you are hurting some feelings around here.

Re:choices are good (2)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 2 years ago | (#38079834)

Novell got Microsoft to pay them a big wad of cash and also got Microsoft to encourage companies to install Linux.

Don't you wish every distro could pull off that sort of deal?

Or is it only okay if it's Canonical trying to pull the same sort of deal "give us money and encourage people to use our distro" with Ubuntu and hardware manufacturers?

Re:choices are good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38080240)

No, I am not interested in dealing with Microsoft or Oracle, what is not clear? What do you CARE what I think? Don't you have something better to do?

Re:choices are good (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 2 years ago | (#38080650)

Well, at least this time you remembered to check the "post anonymously" box.

Still, your zealotry still makes you a freetard ... you can go back to sucking RMS's ...um ... cheesy toes or something. The rest of us will continue to live in the real world.

Re:choices are good (1)

rim_namor (2454342) | more than 2 years ago | (#38080898)

Well, at least this time you remembered to check the "post anonymously" box.

I post anonymous because my limit of 10 posts a day is reached. While you, I am sure, are only posting the kinds of messages that are well received by the /crowd, the groupthink shit, mine are generally voted up and down many times over and over and over, and generally those who don't like the message have more moderation points, however this is done, and thus I can either post as an AC or I can post from my second account.

Are you satisfied with the explanation, enterprise boy?

Still, your zealotry still makes you a freetard ... you can go back to sucking RMS's ...um ... cheesy toes or something. The rest of us will continue to live in the real world.

As to accusing me on 'sucking RMS' whatever, why don't you go fuck yourself.

I am quite anti-RMS on the issue of proprietary software and I have comments to prove it [slashdot.org] , you prick.

Have your pet spayed or neutered (3, Interesting)

TommyGunnRX (756664) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076144)

Is it me or has Gnome 3x neutered the desktop? When I first used Gnome 3 with F15 I really liked the clean and cutting edge look. But 15 minutes later I choked on the fact that Gnome 3 had me bent over and handcuffed... doing things the way they wanted.

I looked at the screenshot and couldn't really tell if I was looking at Fedora or openSUSE, save the open browser content.

I LOVE what Linux Mint has done. They've incorporated the best of Gnome 3 and greatly improve the experience.

Oh, and YEAH for openSUSE, high-five!

Gay is as gay does (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076214)

I heard you love gagging down Miguel's cock you mono-loving faggot.

Re:Gay is as gay does (1)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076358)

Whether mono the disease or mono the toolkit, I dare say I enjoyed both. When I had mono I was in elementary school and got to miss 3 months. Mono is a neat toy to play with as well.

Re:Have your pet spayed or neutered (4, Interesting)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076614)

I looked at the screenshot and couldn't really tell if I was looking at Fedora or openSUSE, save the open browser content.

This is by design. The Gnome developers want all Gnome installations to look exactly the same. Jon McCan't even said in an interview that he doesn't want you using any themes or customizing your Gnome desktop in any way, because this diminishes Gnome's look, and other people watching you at your computer won't be able to tell it's Gnome. Basically, the Gnome devs are trying to copy Apple and their totally non-customizable UIs, thinking that if it works for Apple, then it'll work for them too.

Re:Have your pet spayed or neutered (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076884)

What the fuck are you babbling about?

Re:Have your pet spayed or neutered (4, Insightful)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076892)

Hmmm, I never did like Gnome. This makes me like it even less. IMO the best thing about Linux is unlike Windows, it works the way YOU want it to work. With MS (and from what you say, now GNOME) it's their way or the highway. Nope, it's MY computer, not some gnome's box.

Re:Have your pet spayed or neutered (1)

serviscope_minor (664417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38080306)

100% agree.

This is why fvwm, xmonad, ratpoison, etc all exist. The unix philosophy has always been that the user is king. I like it that way, and I dislike some of the recent trends.

Re:Have your pet spayed or neutered (2)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#38079254)

"Jon McCan't even said in an interview that he doesn't want you using any themes or customizing your Gnome desktop in any way, because this diminishes Gnome's look, and other people watching you at your computer won't be able to tell it's Gnome."

That's a fine reason to work against Gnome and steer new users away from it. "It's a half-arsed Apple imitation by fanbois who hate choice as much as Apple."

If they want Apple they should BUY Apple and get the "good" parts of that walled garden.

Gnome has always been neutered (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38077226)

Gnome has always had a neutered desktop.

Even way back when it was first getting off the ground they were in process of removing functionality, moving from Sawfish to Metacity.

I can't say I liked the gnomeification of KDE with KDE-4; but even that crippled interface has more functionality then Gnome.

Re:Gnome has always been neutered (3, Informative)

unrtst (777550) | more than 2 years ago | (#38077918)

Bump this up :-)

Sawfish was one of my absolute favorite window managers of all time! I fought with the gnome desktop env to get sawfish back in place on my box for years after they made the metacity switch, and only recently gave up (was just starting up a gnome-panel on login, and considering that my desktop env - no desktop icon manager thing either). Now with gnome 3 sprouting up everywhere, it's looking like LXDE, XFCE, or going back to sawfish.

If you haven't mucked with customizing sawfish (which is super easy to do via the gui), I'd suggest giving it a try. My favorite thing was being able to change the window decorations based on numerous window attribute matches - like all xterms get one style/color of border, and other stuff gets something else, etc... made it very easy to visually spot classes of apps, and allowed me to put thicker window borders on stuff I'd regularly resize (ex. gimp windows; easier to mouse grab) and minimal borders on things I don't need to muck with (ex. IM windows).

Keybindings and configurable actions were very sweet too, and could be set to specific scenarios (when mouse is over desktop, do this thing, but when mouse is over window, do something else, etc, including basing that on window classes so shortcuts could be app-specific).

Looks like it's still actively developed too. If interested: http://sawfish.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page [wikia.com]

downloads truncate (1)

Anomalyst (742352) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076362)

the anl, tds mirrors the and direct link downloads all truncate at ~325MB of 4.3G

Re:downloads truncate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076698)

Have you tried a torrent?

Horray! Oh wait GNOME 3... (1)

Tyrannosaur (2485772) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076460)

I am happy for the new release- but will it be hard to install with the nice GNOME 2 or do I have to switch exclusively to XFCE?

Re:Horray! Oh wait GNOME 3... (1)

nzac (1822298) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076652)

There will be repos in multiple locations roll back to Gnome 2.
I suspect they will not be found on the front page yet though.

It works nicely! (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38076504)

I've been using it on x86 and x86-64 systems for a month or so and it is working quite well.

The announcement above neglected to mention that its running the 3.1.0 kernel and that plus the new compiler/libraries will make life interesting for those of us that live and work in the IT world. Other updates like systemd will also have interesting consequences. Most apps seem fairly happy living and playing on 12.1 however those using CommVault may expect some real pain.

For those that use RHEL and SLES/SLED in their enterprise this is a good introduction of things to come. For some of us that will be sooner rather than later. SLES/SLED 11 SP2, slated to show up in the first quarter of 2012, will be running the 3.0.7 kernel so playing with 12.1 now will give you a taste of things to come.

Re:It works nicely! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38081108)

No, actually the changes you are seeing in OpenSUSE 12.1 won't show up until SLED/SLES 12.0. I have already seen the betas of SP2 for SLE 11 - not much difference. It is just maintenance updates and some changes to autoyast.

KDE 3 back as DE choice (4, Interesting)

SharkByte (206338) | more than 2 years ago | (#38076768)

Given the general negative reception of GNOME 3 (and Unity and to a lesser extend still also KDE 4), it surprises me that I haven't seen it much mentioned on the net that KDE 3 is back as a DE choice. Now if only the MATE (GNOME 2 continuation) was also included...

Re:KDE 3 back as DE choice (5, Informative)

amRadioHed (463061) | more than 2 years ago | (#38077998)

As far as I've heard, the only negative reception KDE 4 still gets is from people who haven't used it since 4.1 was released.

Re:KDE 3 back as DE choice (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38079438)

Allow me to make my voice heard. I last tried KDE 4.5. It annoyed me to no end. First, it was slow. I have a Core i5 with 4 GB of RAM and 3D acceleration. There is no excuse for a windowing system being slow with that kind of hardware in 2010. Second, it was impossible for me to figure out how to get it to look the way I wanted. I worked for over 2 hours until somehow I wound up messing up an activities thing which eliminated my entire UI save for a desktop background. For the life of me, I was unable to figure out how to get back to a place where I could click on things. I've been using computers for 25 years, I'm not an idiot n00b. After an entire evening wasted futzing around, I was crying to just be able to edit a config file with a manual in my lap.

Fortunately for me, I had discovered GNOME 2. I could get it looking good in minutes. GNOME 3 has the reverse problem as KDE 4.5. It looks the way it looks and there isn't a damned thing I can do about it. I don't like the way it looks, hence I don't need to spend an evening futzing with it. It isn't for me.

For me, living in the past with KDE 3 (which I can get looking the way I want) is just what I needed. It still looks more modern than XFCE or LXDM. It is configurable, but intuitive. And I can't inadvertently get myself into a state where I'm boned.

Re:KDE 3 back as DE choice (2)

richlv (778496) | more than 2 years ago | (#38079470)

i'm using 4.6. i still regularly see tasks overlapping in the taskbar, kmix ends up with some binary crap in xml and then decides to stop working & eat 100% cpu, upon startup it does "something" for good 10 to 15 seconds before i can launch any apps, notes plasmoid right now has part of the text invisible, network statistic plamsoids/widgets/whatever are still way worse than knetstats was for kde3...

kde4 is usable, and some features are nice. but damn, 3.5.10 was rock solid. kde4 still has way, way too many bugs. i will try 4.7 (in this new opensuse release, btw :) ) soon, hoping that at least some of the issues have been fixed, but given how they are still there in 4.6, i'm not having much hope.

oh, and there's one long lasting bug even since kde3 - ctrl+shift+c to copy from konsole doesn't put the value in klipper :)

Microsoft Zealot Here... (4, Interesting)

fiddley (834032) | more than 2 years ago | (#38077406)

Right, MS Zealot here, love their stuff and earn a living from it, but always want to keep my options open, just in case (as well as increasing my nerd rating, of course!). After flirting with linux multiple times since slackware '96, last weekend I've given it yet another go and I'm posting right now from the previous version of SUSE. It's the first distro I've ever installed and EVERYTHING seems to work. I've tried Linux about 20 times, but had given up after a few hours of mucking around because my mouse, or my graphics card, or my sound or my network or SOMETHING wouldn't work. Finally I've found one where everything works! I've been on it a week, and apart from not knowing how to do anything, the only problem is my fans sound like they're about to take off.

So, I'm struggling with the basics, but learning a little every day. Does anyone know a decent Windows-Linux Conversion guide which explains the parallels between the two - such as how to install drivers, where the hell is 'Program Files', what do I do if I want to install software but it's not an rpm or whatever it is suse uses. (Damn, I miss MSIs & EXEs!)

Also, is there any mail client I can use to connect to my exchange server for work email? (using MAPI \ RPC over HTTPS)

This is quite a lot of fun, and I've noticed that it seems to render flash video nicer than windows, BBC iPlayer HD is a bit stuttery on windows, but is smooth as silk over here.

Any hints and tips gratefully received!

Re:Microsoft Zealot Here... (1)

nzac (1822298) | more than 2 years ago | (#38078470)

Does anyone know a decent Windows-Linux Conversion guide which explains the parallels between the two - such as how to install drivers, where the hell is 'Program Files', what do I do if I want to install software but it's not an rpm or whatever it is suse uses. (Damn, I miss MSIs & EXEs!)

Drivers are always an issue in Linux. You said everything works, what divers do you want? If you want the system tray config options gui chances are the hardware manufacturer does not support Linux.

You really want to find the (preferably SUSE) RPM to install something (its much tidier) if not you generally need to follow the instructions on the website for the software you want to install. If they don't want to support openSuSE then you are on your own and need to Google for someone who has made it work.

Re:Microsoft Zealot Here... (1)

someSnarkyBastard (1521235) | more than 2 years ago | (#38078574)

Try trawling through the Ubuntu forums/wikis, granted it's all for a different distro but Ubuntu is specifically billed as being "newbie-friendly" and has a large, active user community and lots of documentation written for newbies. You can also try asking around on IRC chat, generally folks are pretty civil on the ones I've been to.

As to installing stuff, you can do that through a tool in YaST or possibly PackageKit, everything from kernel drivers to web browsers can be installed through Yast and, if anything, once you discover the beauty of package management on modern Linux systems you may very well look back at the days of *.exe installers and shudder.

in regards to mail clients, I've personally always preferred either Evolution or Thunderbird, give them both a whirl and see what happens.

Re:Microsoft Zealot Here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38078882)

Hi - hints and tips -

Always have one linux machine working - and not a desktop. This way you will always be able to set up a web server, samba server and ssh into it do try neat little server things.

Using rsync for backing up remote files is a good systems administrator task.

This way you don't need to have stuff on the desktop working - you'll be running with a linux server.

HTH

Re:Microsoft Zealot Here... (5, Informative)

JCholewa (34629) | more than 2 years ago | (#38078978)

> MS Zealot here

Liar. You're no zealot. ;P

> Does anyone know a decent Windows-Linux Conversion guide which explains the parallels between the two - such as how to install drivers, where the hell is
> 'Program Files',

In POSIX systems (Linux, Unix, BSD, QNX, Mac OS X in some cases, et al), files are split up depending on their role. You know how your settings go in "%APPDATA%\", libraries to in "%SYSTEMROOT%" and other stuff goes in "%PROGRAMFILES%\"? Well, in these systems, it is split up moreso, Generally, all binaries (the executable files) go into "$PREFIX/bin/", global configuration files go into "$PREFIX/etc/", unchanging data files go into "$PREFIX/share/", libraries go into "$PREFIX/lib", log files and changing system files (the print spool, for instance) go into "/var/". Just like in Windows, the system magically handles it all. (note: $PREFIX is usually "/usr", but it is sometimes something else -- I won't get into it here, but there are pretty good reasons for this).

> what do I do if I want to install software but it's not an rpm or whatever it is suse uses. (Damn, I miss MSIs & EXEs!)

That's a weird one. What do you do if it's not an msi or an exe in a Windows system?

rpm is the equivalent of msi, except that the package management is generally easier to work with. In suse, you go into Yast's "Software Management" app and it will list most programs (several thousand, generally, organized in categories and easily searchable) that people would need to install. Think of it as "Windows Update", but instead of offering programs that Microsoft makes, it offers programs that everyone makes (or like an app store, except that it's been in Linux for over a decade and doesn't cost money). On the command line, the equivalent is "zypper". You'd type "sudo zypper install firefox", for example, and firefox would be updated. But anyway, if you're using Yast, I suggest going into the "Software Repositories" section, clicking the "Add" button, choosing the "Community Repositories" radio button, and clicking next. The "Packman" repository is highly recommended, as it has a lot of apps that the suse people lack.

rpm files are what you use as an *alternate* solution if the program is not in an available repository, not as your primary means of installing stuff. Repositories can manage installation of prerequisites. You might have tried to install a program requiring .NET in Windows at one point and received an error stating that it was not installed. In the repositories, and situations like that would be subverted by the repository manager going online and downloading/installing what it needs to install the package you actually want.

Sometimes, a developer will release the equivalent of an exe installer for their product. nvidia is an example. This is a TERRIBLE IDEA that you sometimes just can't work around. Running an unknown executable as the administrative user is just asking for pain. I know, because one of my scientists here wiped out his server's entire filesystem by running an install script as root, and I had to pick up after him. rpm (in suse, mandriva, pclinuxos, red hat, et al) and deb (in debian, ubuntu, mint, et al) and various others give limited powers which simply allow the application to get its files in the right place and do some basic maintenance (like starting a daemon if it's a server app).

The third option that people seem to think is ubiquitous in Linux (it isn't ... unless it's a hardcore science research app) is that you're given the source code and you have to compile it. In 90% of these cases, the only real problem is that you might not have a prerequisite app or library installed to complete the compilation. Package management helps with that, but it's better to avoid having to do this. Still, most of the examples you just go to the command line, visit the directory, type "./configure && make install" and have some coffee. I don't remember when I've had to do this on my home machine.

> Also, is there any mail client I can use to connect to my exchange server for work email? (using MAPI \ RPC over HTTPS)

Exchange is a tricky beast. I don't think the protocol is even now publicly available (I may be wrong), so mail apps have to do weird things like (in the background) access OWA (exchange webmail) and parse the data. I use a java app called Davmail ("http://davmail.sourceforge.net") which does this and converts the information on the fly to regular email protocols (like POP, IMAP, SMTP, Caldav, LDAP) that can be used with any mail program (you set the server to "localhost" in the mail program). I prefer kmail, and one of my coworkers here uses Thunderbird, in this way.

Unfortunately, I don't know anything much about the protocols you mention above, so this might not have been useful.

Re:Microsoft Zealot Here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38079710)

http://www.petenetlive.com/KB/Article/0000378.htm

Quick tutorial on how to connect Evolution email client to Exchange 2010

Re:Microsoft Zealot Here... (1)

TheNinjaroach (878876) | more than 2 years ago | (#38078996)

As you've probably figured out, YAST is your friend. It's like a Control Panel / RegEdit combo -- puts a lot of system options in a mostly well organized GUI for changing with mouse clicks. As far as drivers go... YAST is where you go to configure a lot of them.

"Program Files" doesn't really exist. Instead, an environment variable called "PATH" contains a list of commonly used app folders like /bin, /usr/bin, etc. Downside: you may not know where your binaries live. Upside: You generally don't need to know. Just type the name of the command, and if it's listed in PATH it will be found.

Use RPMs where ever you can. When you can only find source code, you will have ~ 75% success rate with these three steps. 1) Unzip the tar.gz or .bz2 package to some folder. 2) Change directories into said folder and run "./configure" and keep your fingers crossed. 3) Type "make install" to compile and install the software. When this doesn't work, it's usually because you need some library "-dev" package installed using YAST, but sometimes you're just unlucky and need to learn in an awkward trial / error / Google cycle.

A coworker of mine uses Mozilla Thunderbird for Exchange access. I'm required to run a few other Windows tools for work, so I keep a Windows 7 VM using VirtualBox and I just run Outlook there. If I don't want to boot up the VM, I'll use Outlook Web Access to get by in my web browser.

Improvements (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38077724)

Improvements include the latest GNOME 3.2 desktop

I stopped reading here.

Re:Improvements (2)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#38079090)

"I stopped reading here."

You should have kept going to the less-painful "sharp stick in the eye" and "hot deep fryer emptied onto crotch".

Re:Improvements (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#38079184)

too bad, the rest mentioned other finer desktops such as XFCE and LXDE. Of course, to be fair, to get to that great part you'd also have to stomach your way past the filthy K-desktop-word
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