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Has Apple Made Programmers Cool?

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the for-some-definition-of-cool dept.

Programming 378

An anonymous reader writes "CNET suggests that Apple has totally changed the general public's perception of programmers: It's now suddenly cool to code. No matter what platform you're on. They argue that App Store millionaire success stories have 'turned a whole generation of geek coders from social misfits into superheroes.' Apparently, gone are the days when a programmer was the last person you wanted to talk to at a party: 'Mention to someone that you make apps and their interest will pick up instantly. This is an astonishing change from what a programmer in the '80s could have expected in reaction to their job description.' The App Store millionaires, or 'Appillionaires,' may have done all of us programmers a huge favor. Programming is now socially acceptable: 'Previous generations strapped on electric guitars and fought for super-stardom in sweaty dive bars, but today's youth boot up Xcode on their MacBook Pros.'"

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378 comments

No, they haven't (5, Insightful)

CmdrPony (2505686) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083370)

The only reason for the change is that more socially skilled persons have started using computers at an young age, and continued doing so (and even started programming) while still maintaining their social skills. Don't worry - if you were socially awkward before, you're still as uncool as you even were.

One of the reasons is also that geeks in general don't understand good manners. They view down to people with other interests (how many times have you read here on Slashdot some rants about how stupid people are because they don't know everything about computers), go on and on about their own interests (computers, programming, RPG games..) without even thinking if the other side is interested to talk about that. Geeks cannot grasp the concept of being and acting friendly to other people. It doesn't make only you feel awkward - it makes the other side feel awkward too.

I have enjoyed programming since I was 7-8 years old. I still kind of do. However, it has never been my whole life. There's one great thing growing up in computer generations. Since I turned 20, I've been traveling the world while working on the side. Since all I need for my work is a computer and an internet access, I can do it on the road. Along the way I've met lots of interesting people (and especially girls) who I've all told to that I do programming for a living and it's also how I can travel around the world and live on the road. If anything, that has made people interested. And I really don't myself as an uncool guy, nor do all the women I've met along.

Like it or not, social skills are.. well, skills. If you suck at them, you should try to improve them any way you can. It's not that other people think programmers are uncool, it just comes from the fact that those people often cannot act socially. If an otherwise social and successful person tells he likes programming, does anyone care? No. It's just a matter of being social and not having the only interest in your life be programming.

Re:No, they haven't (5, Insightful)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083426)

Along the way I've met lots of interesting people (and especially girls) who I've all told to that I do programming for a living and it's also how I can travel around the world and live on the road. If anything, that has made people interested. And I really don't myself as an uncool guy, nor do all the women I've met along.

If you use phrases of adolescent self-promotion such as "especially girls" and "all the women I've met", you're uncool.

Re:No, they haven't (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083550)

Yep, it's cool nowadays to say "All the men I've had sex with."

Re:No, they haven't (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083552)

That is perspective depending Hazel, he _needs_ social skills otherwise he couldn't get the 'girls'. Apparently that is high on his priority list.
Everything, from programming to social interaction can be learned, unless you have a medical condition. However this doesn't mean it is easy to learn, for some people some things are harder then for others. Since time is limited, people need to make a choice am I going to spend time on what I am already good at and enjoy or do I grind through the learning process of learning some underdeveloped skill. I chose understanding and learning (generic technical topics) above social interaction, marketing and branding. Which puts me firmly in the geek territory, however this was a choice and I accept that the consequences are that the other skills are unrefined. Generally speaking I can get along with a lot of people, but I don't want to, nor do I care.
--
Martin P. Hellwig

Re:No, they haven't (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083638)

A programmer needs girls so he can roll tits left and roll tits right.

Re:No, they haven't (2, Interesting)

goose-incarnated (1145029) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083934)

I'm constantly amazed that hardline feminists never have a clue about what normal women find attractive. Much to my displeasure, I've found out that impressing girls with smooth talk actually works, and phrases like that are much more likely to get a larger number of women interested in a man.

I understand totally that hardcore feminists wish that the world worked differently, but it doesn't - women prefer guys who are well-travelled and attractive to other women. Droping hints like the above is almost gauranteed to get women interested in GP.

Re:No, they haven't (3, Insightful)

somersault (912633) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083478)

"Like it or not, social skills are.. well, skills. If you suck at them, you should try to improve them any way you can."

"Like it or not, social skills are.. well, skills. If you suck at them, you should try to improve them any way you can."

First off - If someone's only interest is programming, why the hell would they care about social skills? Why "should" they try to improve them? Why does everyone in the world have to conform to your ideas?

Besides that - you seem to have exposure to an extremely small set of geeks or socially awkward people. You get friendly and unfriendly geeks, just the same as you do in any group of people. Socially awkward people may just be quiet people with low self esteem. They probably be quite happy to speak to you if you show that you're interested in speaking to them (that's kind of how I am). Then again they may just be misanthropic bastards, but you are taking a few "worst case" people and assuming that hundreds of millions of people are the same. Good job.

I bet that if a few Slashdot posters met up in real life they'd get on pretty damn well compared to how they do here. There would still be disagreements, but they'd be more civil and measured. It's far too easy to be impersonal online, and that's maybe where some of your tripe is stemming from. Have a look at YouTube comments sometime. It's not just geeks that appear to lose the concept of being friendly once they get behind a keyboard.

Re:No, they haven't (1, Insightful)

umghhh (965931) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083574)

with a bit of brains and letting years wear you tired you kind of become a misanthropic bastard all by itself no effort on your side needed. The common idiocy of human kind will make you so or at least has a good shot at it. This however does not have much to do with your 'social skill' thing. There are certain things that are hard wired and changing them is difficult if not impossible. You can compensate some of those if you are unlucky to have such 'weird' characteristic but you would consciously have to spend time doing so and itis not always pleasant or rewarding. Take this example. In group of people I work with my proposals on how to approach problems tend to be thrown out of the window. This has a lot to do with the way I make them one manager told me. This morning I took notice and out of curiosity made a proposal to improve things in a silly way just to see what happens. Indeed they did what I really wanted i.e.noticed that proposal was seriously flawed but going into the right direction and then decided to do the right thing. This was a success then. This is stark contrast to situation in which I showed my co-workers how silly they are following flawed process only to be confronted with 'why did you not tell us' when the failed (after promptly ignoring my righteous advice). When I had higher testosterone levels I tried to forcefully get the message trough but now I laugh a lot. They say I got wiser. Now you figure.

Re:No, they haven't (5, Funny)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083682)

with a bit of brains and letting years wear you tired you kind of become a misanthropic bastard all by itself no effort on your side needed.

I've spent a great deal of time and effort honing my misanthropy you insensitive clod

Re:No, they haven't (2)

somersault (912633) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083856)

Yep, try not to make it personal if you're pointing out problems I guess. A lot of the time I just don't try to get involved in stuff like that because if I started trying to fix other department's workflows I'd probably be at it for a few years before everything was sorted out, and I don't have the time for that..

Re:No, they haven't (5, Insightful)

LordNacho (1909280) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083594)

First off - If someone's only interest is programming, why the hell would they care about social skills?

IMO programming is inherently a social activity. Aren't most programmers writing things that other people are meant to interact with? When you code, don't you ask the users what they think of your creation, how to improve it, etc? Don't you also try to influence how they use the program? That's a social thing, surely?

Re:No, they haven't (4, Informative)

somersault (912633) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083916)

The act of programming itself is certainly not inherently social. Most programmers seem to code much better when they are left to themselves for hours/days/weeks to just fully immerse themselves in the problem that they're trying to solve. Other areas of software development can benefit from having good social skills, for example if you get involved with the customer then you can save a lot of wasted time having to re-write things when they come back and say "that's not what we asked for!".

You also have to bear in mind that not all programming is applications programming There are researchers who may be writing programs to solve specific problems where there is no end user per se. Other people may use the code or ideas that have emerged from solving this problem, but they will probably just read that that in a paper rather than strictly requiring any social interaction. Also when it comes to writing things like device drivers, the only thing you'd really expect to get back from users are bug reports.

Re:No, they haven't (1)

bronney (638318) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083660)

I bet that if a few Slashdot posters met up in real life they'd get on pretty damn well compared to how they do here.

asl plz?

Re:No, they haven't (4, Insightful)

Idimmu Xul (204345) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083810)

First off - If someone's only interest is programming, why the hell would they care about social skills? Why "should" they try to improve them? Why does everyone in the world have to conform to your ideas?

Because it totally sucks having to work with socially abhorant people, it makes the day worse for everyone around them. Even the ones that are polite, but introverted and quiet become a communication energy drain eventually.

Whilst you're right, they don't have to conform to anyone's ideas of the social norm, it helps everyone around you if you have a reasonable set of social skills, which in turn helps yourself.

Unless of course you are a basement dwelling millionaire, cranking out appstore apps with no human contact, then by all means carry on, but that lady that serves you Cheetos would have a much better day if you smiled at her when paying!

Re:No, they haven't (1)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083480)

The only reason for the change is that more socially skilled persons have started using computers at an young age, and continued doing so (and even started programming) while still maintaining their social skills. Don't worry - if you were socially awkward before, you're still as uncool as you even were.
One of the reasons is also that geeks in general don't understand good manners. They view down to people with other interests (how many times have you read here on Slashdot some rants about how stupid people are because they don't know everything about computers), go on and on about their own interests (computers, programming, RPG games..) without even thinking if the other side is interested to talk about that. Geeks cannot grasp the concept of being and acting friendly to other people. It doesn't make only you feel awkward - it makes the other side feel awkward too.

Generalizing a bit too much, aren't you? There aren't a lot of geeks that have only one interest. It's the general public's interest in software that has increased -> interest in people that make it increased. At one time building websites was cool, therefore web developers got a boost in interest.
And I wouldn't call that social skills, because most pe

Re:No, they haven't (2, Insightful)

BenoitRen (998927) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083516)

how many times have you read here on Slashdot some rants about how stupid people are because they don't know everything about computers

Way to misrepresent the argument. The problem is that people seem to lose common sense as soon as they sit down in front of a computer because they think it's magic, and they refuse to learn how to work with it.

Re:No, they haven't (5, Insightful)

PaladinAlpha (645879) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083530)

If talking about programming isn't cool, and programming is what you do (i.e. not something your daddy sent you to school for to cash in on) then you're simply talking to the wrong people. I don't care if programming is 'cool.' I understand that a lot of people aren't interested in software development, or algorithms, or computer science proper. Those people are uninteresting to me, just as I am uninteresting to them. I've got better things to do than make small talk.

Note that 'programming' is kind of like 'engineering' in that it covers a lot of smaller specific interests; my fiance knows little of code, but my keen interest in efficient model design and algorithmic data encapsulation fits firmly parallel her own interests (pursuing a PhD in economics). The opinions of the MBAs or the geologists or the lit crits are of relatively little importance to me.

I guess in a way it's a lot like GNU/Linux. The year of Linux on the desktop isn't here, and may never be here, and it doesn't matter, because I can still use it just fine. Hell, it's better than that because being open source it cannot disappear, and so long as there is a single person who knows a bit of code who likes it, it will see continued development. Do you see the parallel? I may never be a hit at parties given by people that are uninteresting to me, but it doesn't matter, because I love what I do, I do it well, and it's important to society at large, so I'll always be able to do it. I don't feel the need to be 'cool' and accrue superficial connections with people that I won't learn anything from and whom won't learn anything from me, simply because we're headed in different directions.

What I'm saying is 'cool' means 'form instead of function', and I suppose in that sense, yes, Apple has made programmers 'cool.'

Re:No, they haven't (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083546)

"I've got better things to do than make small talk."

Son, you must live a lonely life. You are perfect example of what the OP was talking about.

Re:No, they haven't (1)

Roger Lindsjo (727951) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083688)

If talking about programming isn't cool, and programming is what you do (i.e. not something your daddy sent you to school for to cash in on) then you're simply talking to the wrong people. I don't care if programming is 'cool.' I understand that a lot of people aren't interested in software development, or algorithms, or computer science proper. Those people are uninteresting to me, just as I am uninteresting to them. I've got better things to do than make small talk.

If you are only interested in people that know they are interested in software development then I think you are limiting your potential for development. I try to talk about software development with everyone, from low level memory allocations and race conditions to team forming and communication. If you present it in a passionate you will be surprised that most people will find what you talk about interesting. Also, if you show that you are honestly interesting in what they will tell you about their experiences you will in return get insights into professions you would normally not explore. This way I have heard very interesting stories such as an old man next to me on the plane being one of the oldest captains in Sweden and how he would fly with lights off at low altitude to avoid being shot down when delivering medical supplies during one of the wars in the middle east.

Re:No, they haven't (5, Insightful)

FyRE666 (263011) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083534)

It hasn't made programming cool, it has made some of the jobs based around programming appear cooler. If someone asks what you do and you reply that you're a cobol programmer woring for a mortgage company, it's hardly likely to make you seem like the coolest guy in the room. However, if you mention that you write apps for phones, or Facebook, or write games then it's likely to seem more interesting. People can relate to it as they will be using the devices and services you help create content for.

There's also a crossover now, with people who put together a Powerpoint presentation, or mark up an HTML page considering themselves programmers.

Re:No, they haven't (4, Interesting)

xaxa (988988) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083648)

If someone asks what you do and you reply that you're a cobol programmer woring for a mortgage company, it's hardly likely to make you seem like the coolest guy in the room.

It might make you cooler than the salesman for the mortgage company. Some guys I met at a music festival who worked for a mortgage company told me my job was much cooler. I work for a museum, and after the usual "but why would a museum need a computer programmer?" response, it's easy enough to explain something to anyone, no matter what their education/job/age. Also, they've probably heard of the museum, which helps.

I reckon the scientists who work here have "cooler" jobs though, which are more interesting to talk about at parties.

Re:No, they haven't (1)

Larryish (1215510) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083858)

Are there many COBOL programmers out whoring for mortgage companies? /me is confused.

Re:No, they haven't (3, Insightful)

dokc (1562391) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083548)

One of the reasons is also that geeks in general don't understand good manners. They view down to people with other interests (how many times have you read here on Slashdot some rants about how stupid people are because they don't know everything about computers), go on and on about their own interests (computers, programming, RPG games..) without even thinking if the other side is interested to talk about that. Geeks cannot grasp the concept of being and acting friendly to other people. It doesn't make only you feel awkward - it makes the other side feel awkward too.

Well, if I need to talk about trash TV program, super cool new MTV stars, shoes and other brain-dead things then I really do not want to be friendly to other people. Is it too much too expect from others to switch on their brains and talk sometimes about some really important things (science, philosophy, history,...,meaning of life)?!
The "non-geeks" cannot grasp the concept of thinking so they are acting unfriendly to "geeks", so you must defend yourself.

Re:No, they haven't (4, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083760)

I think you're confusing non-geeks with idiots. There are lots of people in the world who are neither geeks nor idiots...

Re:No, they haven't (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083576)

It's also this perception of "cool" that's inspired less-than-capable of applying for developer jobs. Rawr.

Re:No, they haven't (5, Insightful)

sdk4777 (1013597) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083580)

Programmers made Apple cool.

Re:No, they haven't (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083618)

Nice stereotyping douche bag.

Re:No, they haven't (5, Insightful)

StripedCow (776465) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083620)

And the silly thing is, most of those disdainful programmers don't know anything about solid state physics, the fundamental discipline that gives them the ability to run their programs in the first place. In other words, if you keep behaving like a nerd, you will still be considered a dweeb by others. Disclaimer: I don't know much about the subject, either.

Re:No, they haven't (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083632)

One of the reasons is also that non-geeks in general don't understand good manners. They view down to people with other interests (how many times have you heard some rants about how stupid people are because they don't know everything about celebrities or sports), go on and on about their own interests (celebrities, sports, fashion ...) without even thinking if the other side is interested to talk about that.

Re:No, they haven't (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083646)

That is actually quite an insightful point.

Re:No, they haven't (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083636)

Getting "girls" isn't hard for the average male, harder for the geeks, sure, but in the end, if you want to get The Girl, you'll need a stable paycheck and home. Travelling at 20 and working on the "side", speaks strongly against that. You'll find yourself in a couple of decades unable to settle down because of your finances or simply because of your heavily ingrained habits to never sit still in the same place for a long amount of time.

Oh yeah, go for a car analogy in this case, cars aka computers became fashionable and everyone started to use them. But it's so hard to get someone to fix it for you, so you start picking things up, some people pick enough they go into business on their own. Apple doesn't have a role in this anywhere. They built a large part of the smartphone market, and virtually created the tablet one, but in terms of internet visibility they were even smaller than linux.
The so called "apps" are moneymakers for very few people, in the past couple of years, I doubt you could count more than a few thousand developers, either individuals or firms that made a profit off their apps, let alone millions as the summary implies. And all that without even considering the many that started on that path and failed before creating their app, or creating the app and seeing it fail, or even better yet, copied and resold for a minimum amount of effort and maximum profit. But we're talking about the "public perception", so, people might consider the handful of successful stories to be the rule, not the exception.

Re:No, they haven't (4, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083680)

The only reason for the change is that more socially skilled persons have started using computers at an young age, and continued doing so (and even started programming) while still maintaining their social skills. Don't worry - if you were socially awkward before, you're still as uncool as you even were.

The computer is the introvert's best friend. With it, you can almost avoid talking to a live person. You buy things online, you don't have to deal with shop staff. Or bank staff in your online bank. And any other self-service solution. With check-in machines, bag drops and ticket scanners you can now go on a flight without talking to anyone, unless you're halted in the security control. At work, you can be a "productive enough to be left alone" worker having as little contact with your boss or colleagues (or rather PHB and cow-orkers) as possible. Or at least limited it to technical work things. At home you can game away pretending to have a life, least your avatar has one. I mean you always had shut-ins but they were also extremely bound by it. Today you can almost be a Sheldon and not clash with society, which used to force you into dealing with other people. If anything it's easier than ever to be a hermit in the middle of the city.

Re:No, they haven't (1)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083850)

So that explains why all those social games exist, it's for all the introverts to play on-line, and chat with the friends they don't have ...

That explains why Facebook, and Twitter etc is so popular it's for all the socially maladjusted types to interact with all the friends they don't have ...

Most of the people on-line are very social, they see the internet as a tool, like many others, to enhance their life

While it can be also used by introverts, the people who use it most are not ...

Re:No, they haven't (2, Insightful)

angel'o'sphere (80593) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083684)

I agree to most of your points but I think you seriously mix up geeks with nerds.

Re:No, they haven't (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083730)

This. Insightful. Oh good god.

Project much?

Re:No, they haven't (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083880)

On your claim of non-friendlyness of geeks: That's wrong. It's just that geeks and non-geeks have slightly different notions of what is friendly.

A typical example, a geek considers it unfriendly to bother other people with a question without first trying to solve it yourself. On the other hand, most non-geeks will consider it unfriendly to ask someone to do some research themselves. Therefore a typical scenario is the following:

A non-geek asks a geek about some problem, and it is clear from the question that he didn't make an effort to solve it himself.
Now for the geek that's just unfriendly (friends don't waste friends' time), therefore he asks the non-geek to first do his own research.
Now the non-geek considers that unfriendly, and getting accused for something he considers normal, he complains about that answer.
The geek, being accused for suggesting something he considers normal (even fundamental), then complains about the complaint of the other one.
In the end, both consider each other as violating the most fundamental rules which should be obvious to everyone and then even complains if he is told that.

Bitch please... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083374)

I was cool way before Apple.

Re:Bitch please... (0)

angel'o'sphere (80593) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083718)

you mean as in iCool?

Re:Bitch please... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083864)

iCool noVerb.

As predicted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083380)

Whether Apple has done so or not, this trend was predicted a few years ago by Adam Curry. Go listen to his podcasts.

Appillionaires? (2)

Jack Malmostoso (899729) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083384)

Seriously? Is that a word now?

Re:Appillionaires? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083424)

I have a feeling the author of the article made it up. There's a link in the article to a book on Amazon by the title of Appillionaires: Secrets from Developers Who Struck It Rich on the App Store which just happens to be by the author of the article. How about that. A total coincidence.

Re:Appillionaires? (4, Interesting)

phonewebcam (446772) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083572)

Ahem. Apple doesn't have the App Store. It has an App Store. And that's official. They lost their case precisely over this against ... Amazon [v3.co.uk] :-)

Re:Appillionaires? (5, Informative)

rta (559125) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083650)

if you look carefully you'll note TFA says explicitly:

"Chris Stevens used to write reviews and make funny videos for CNET UK. He left to start an app company, Atomic Antelope, which made the smash-hit Alice for the iPad apps. Now he's written a book about the app development scene, Appillionaires. This is an exclusive extract."

So this is just self-serving masturbatory ego-stroking hipster scenester BS. Of course Angry Birds is right up there w/ penicillin in importance. No one had EVER written a mobile game before it's hard to even imagine society before it. sheesh.

Re:Appillionaires? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083910)

Of course Angry Birds is right up there w/ penicillin in importance.

I can only wish Angry Birds would be important enough to be sold on prescription only (or on online pharmacies).

Re:Appillionaires? (1, Insightful)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083708)

I have a feeling the author of the article made it up. There's a link in the article to a book on Amazon by the title of Appillionaires: Secrets from Developers Who Struck It Rich on the App Store which just happens to be by the author of the article. How about that. A total coincidence.

mod up. explains the articles existence _totally_. make up a word, make up a book, make up hype and hope some bozos buy the book to learn how to strike rich with soundboards.

Re:Appillionaires? (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083804)

Didn't we call them dot-com millionaires before Apple's second coming? And home game developers in the bubble before that? And garage entrepreneurs in the bubble before that (although, to be fair, that one was at least 50% hardware engineers). In each tech bubble a few people got very rich and a few more got quite rich - I don't remember any of them making programming (or circuit / IC design) cool though, especially not after the bubble ended.

Re:Appillionaires? (1)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083626)

Yep, people that made a million apps. And all of them soundoards and other shit.

Yeah, well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083390)

I was a programmer before it was cool.

Whatever dude. (5, Funny)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083622)

I still program for System 7, but only because it's ironic.

Damn! (4, Funny)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083398)

It's now suddenly cool to code.

I'm a CS professor, you insensitive clod!

Ugh (4, Informative)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083408)

The first paragraph of that article was one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

million dollar idea (5, Insightful)

jordan314 (1052648) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083420)

"Mention to someone that you make apps and their interest will pick up instantly." ...Because they have a "million dollar app idea" and they want you to design, program, test, and release it for them, and then they'll give you a cut.

Craig's List job ads offering equity (3, Interesting)

MichaelCrawford (610140) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083694)

If they really do have a million dollar idea and you can get by without pay, getting paid in equity is the best way to get rich.

But if their idea is so valuable, why do they need to find business partners on craigslist?

Re:million dollar idea (1)

Monoman (8745) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083700)

This is more likely the truth.

The way I see it so far is that Apple is winning in the portable device market but has yet to make any break into the personal computer market share significantly. Lots of iPods, iPhones and iPads are selling but not their computers in comparison. Apple's strategy seems to be to shift the home/personal market away from the need for personal computers all together and get the consumers to only need "i" devices. This shift may have a significant impact on who will be the next generation of programmers.

Think about it. How did you get started programming? On a home computer most likely. How does one program for these phones and tablets? They do it with a personal computer. If the consumer market no longer demands personal computers then there won't be one in nearly every home. Someone looking to program will be do it the old fashioned way, at schools and businesses because Apple computers are still too expensive for a lot of folks.

If this shift in personal computing does happen then it will only make it harder to learn programming, not easier. Apple idea is to make things simple. Perhaps too simple. I wonder what the percentage of Apple users are "techie" compared to the "techie" PC users. I can tell you that most Apple users I meet have no clue how computers work and are dead in the water when things don't work the way they should.

Could this be the early beginnings of our Idiocracy?

That's not how iDe ices work at all (1)

MichaelCrawford (610140) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083774)

The popularity of Mac desktop hardware varies dramatically by region. Hardly anyone uses macs in Atlantic Canada but they are everywhere in British Columbia as well as where I live now in Washington state.

iOS devices are totally useless without a destop computer. My brand new iPad wouldn't even boot the first time I tried to use it until I plugged it into a computer with an Internet connection. That really sucked as the place I was staying at did not have reliable Internet.

iOS devices sync themselves with iTunes on just one computer. You can sync to another computer but all the data from your first computer will be deleted first.

While you can purchase apps directly from devices, you have to run iTunes to register for an app store account. A friend came close to returning her iPhone for a refund until I figured out that the fact that she ran ubuntu on her Mac meant that she could not use iTunes.

Clearly iOS devices are meant to drive computer sales not eliminate them.

Re:million dollar idea (4, Insightful)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083890)

Because they have a "million dollar app idea" and they want you to design, program, test, and release it for them, and then they'll give you a cut.

I've had that conversation. And yet, every time it always seems to include the words "like Angry Birds*, but..."

Ask them what their million dollar idea offers that the original doesn't? Blank stare.

*Or some other uber-popular, well-entrenched bit of pap.

What self-respecting programmer (2)

CruelKnave (1324841) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083428)

would waste valuvable coding time by going to a par . . . ty? Am I saying that correctly?

Re:What self-respecting programmer (2)

CruelKnave (1324841) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083432)

Oh, preview button. Again I overlook your "valuve".

Re:What self-respecting programmer (4, Funny)

emj (15659) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083510)

I think you mean parity, And it's not a was of time finding good ECC memories, parity is vital.

Re:What self-respecting programmer (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083932)

would waste valuvable coding time by going to a par . . . ty? Am I saying that correctly?

Me thinks you misspelled vulvalabium.

on the contrary (4, Insightful)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083430)

Apple has made "programmers" more likely to be nothing more than businessmen who have read a few coding books.

Headline might as well me "Prostitution makes partners sexy".

Re:on the contrary (4, Funny)

makomk (752139) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083506)

I think that comparison's probably a bit insulting to prostitutes, to be honest.

No (1)

koko (66015) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083434)

Programmers have always been cool. No aside for kidding.

This reads like a dup from quite a few weeks ago, too. YAAS'ment stuck in some PR feedback that we have all come to know, expect, and HATE.

meh, must be like the 23423th geeks are cool (3, Interesting)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083438)

meh, must be like the 23423th geeks are cool story I've read - in 20 years or so.
I'm cool like a fool in a swimming pool anyhow, fucking ridiculous to say that apple did it though.

"mention someone that you make apps" and be sure that they'll bitch for work, you to work for them, or they'll ask for money or drugs.

Re:meh, must be like the 23423th geeks are cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083596)

Absolutely right. If anything, the WEB made computers cool. I'm not even convinced that programmers ARE seen as cool yet.

hackers (5, Insightful)

nicholas22 (1945330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083440)

It was the 1960's hackers in MIT that made programming cool.

Free tech support! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083462)

A lot of people have smart phones, computers, laptops, MP3 players, etc. All those devices will sooner or later need some kind of technical attention. You know how it is. Don't get buttered up only to be used!

  - jaded AC

Re:Free tech support! (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083954)

All those devices will sooner or later need some kind of technical attention.

U serious? Haven't yet heard of planned obsolescence? It's more likely to have large drops in prices.

Left alone (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083494)

Once upon a time I just had to say I was computer programmer at parties, and I would be happily left alone. Now I have to say i'm a climate change skeptic. Times change.

Money = Sexy (5, Insightful)

Kohlrabi82 (1672654) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083496)

I get it, when you sit in your basement hacking away at code potentially benefiting many people for free you are a socially unacceptable geek. As soon as you put together some graphics and make money from thousands of people you are the sex icon of the new computer era. It's not that perception has changed, but rather the contrary. Money and status derived from money is valued more than the work itself.

Re:Money = Sexy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083676)

It's like now that Steve jobs is dead hes a humanitarian., and bill gates is a ruthless businessman. If you value public opinion then you're a fool.

on the main topic if you are in a job that is considered uncool you could easily lie and say you do something else. Because the kinda girls that think making apps is cool would believe you're an astronaut

THIEFS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083500)

Now I officially hate apple. They are ALSO stealing this? WHEN ARE THEY GONNA STOP!!!!

PD: It is obvious that the big bang theory show did it all xD

Wishful thinking (5, Insightful)

ablaze (222561) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083502)

When it comes to the social sphere, it will always be much cooler to drink the beer, and not to brew it.

I don't want to be cool (4, Insightful)

Required Snark (1702878) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083518)

I used to work in visual effects, and it was cool.

Now that I have gotten away from that world, I don't want to be cool. It gets in the way too much.

Where did my post just go? (2)

MichaelCrawford (610140) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083540)

Slashdot has some manner of JavaScript that's meant to make the site work better on mobile devices, but it's totally borked on mi ios4.3.5 iPhone 4 and 3.2.2 iPad.

I typed out a post, previewed it, attempted to check a link but was taken to slashdot's homepage instead. After that I found that my post had disappeared into the ether.

It won't take long to reenter it from my MacBook pro after I superglue the shattered remnants of my iPhone back together.

In any case, the people who see me working on my iOS app, or those who I show it to, do think I'm pretty cool. "want to see my iPhone app?" is a great way to strike up conversations with complete strangers. Whenever I see someone with an iOS device I ask them to beta test it. Even if they're not up for that they are interested to discuss it.

I imagine lots of these people think I'm wealthy because I code for iPhones but in reality I'm totally busted because I go without paying work as much as I possibly can so I can focus on my own product.

Re:Where did my post just go? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083812)

To be honest I could not think of something that screams "Dork, run away now" more than someone asking me if I want to see their app, and I am a developer.

Cool? (5, Insightful)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083578)

Having had my fair share of "cool" nightlife for many years in a major European city that is very popular everywhere in the world, I can hereby attest that people who think of themselves as being "cool" tend to be morons.

Here is a little anecdote. While I was slacking around not finishing my studies I've once met a mathematician who was working on the mathematics of string theory and told me he was for many years getting up every morning at 8 o'clock, had a cup of tea (not coffee...bad for concentration), learned math the whole day long, and didn't have any social life (bad for concentration). He was incredibly smart but also really happy to finally have a beer with someone. I wouldn't say he was cool then. However, I'm pretty sure he is cool in another sense now, because he likely does something really interesting nowadays--something that halfway mature people will probably find "cool" although they cannot understand it.

So basically, what I want to say is: forget about the instant gratification of "coolness" and do what really interests you.

(Well, to be honest I never checked what this guy is doing now, so he could also just have become a cab driver.... hehhehe)

if you have to ask... (1)

anonymous9991 (1582431) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083602)

then no

When asked at parties what do I do, I answer (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083606)

I'm a programmer, so that they just leave me alone. I say I write in Perl to those who persist, and they go away too.

If I needed attention so badly, I'd say I clean toilets, or am a funeral parlor, or kill for hire, or all at once.

Re:When asked at parties what do I do, I answer (2)

jimshatt (1002452) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083738)

I write Perl programs to kill funeral parlors on clean toilets. It's kind of a niche market...

Quite possibly the dumbest thing ever on /. (4, Insightful)

Tridus (79566) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083662)

And that's saying something. This is utter shit.

Programming stopped being something relegated to socially awkward types that nobody likes at least a decade ago, and really even longer then that. It was cool a long time ago. Then it wasn't.

You know what's happened now? Very little. When people use your stuff, they tend to be more interested in you. That's ALWAYS been true. Oh, and being loaded also helps, because money is sexy.

All they've done with this article is take a stereotype that wasn't true before, and said "hey, somehow Apple fixed it years before the product that fixed it existed! Aren't they awesome!?"

No. The only thing demonstrated here is how uncool and out of touch Slashdot is.

slashdot, taken over by "cool" ppl ? (0)

xaccrocheur (470934) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083664)

What the fuck is that ? Some sort of plot ? Yeah, I'm a programmer, bitch. I figured that since computers are everywhere, I might as well learn how they work. (and yeah, in this day and age, I view ppl who don't do the same as morons, but that's OT).

I don't care about your friday upcoming party, because my friends and me will be baking a batch of PCBs, while listening to actually good music. And I won't fix your iMac.

I come to /. to read about stuff that matters to me, to us, and this trend of totally OT articles is RUINING it for everyone. Way to go, guys, everytime the headlines are getting stupider and stupider, and this one is quite the pinnacle of stupidity, I mean look at that : "Has apple made programmers cool ?" Wow. Who would want to read this ? And ppl are actually commenting this ? Like the 1st poster ? "yeah no, I'm a real certified geek (with any apple shit, go figure), I get wimen, they love me", wow, man... You're such a douche..!

Credit where credit is due... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083668)

... but let's not give Apple all the credit for everything. This has been a slow and creeping change since the mid-nineties at the latest; the first dot-com bubble put programmers on the social map, so to speak, and our job has been increasingly "cool" ever since.

Disagree. (3, Interesting)

Halster (34667) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083670)

Sorry but I just don't buy it. Social acceptance is likely to only be on the surface, scratch the surface and that person at the party will show the same interest as if you said you worked as a Customer Experience Enhancement Consultant. Keep talking and the look of interest will have moved to disinterest, then beyond that, to the look of someone who's just had a healthy whiff of chlorophyll.

The fact of the matter is, (some) apps are cool, but coding for a living isn't. Sure, some app developers have become rich, but most don't. Unless you've got more money than a small country noone will care beyond polite acknowledgement (and even then, maybe not, I imagine Bill Gates' money didn't make him any more interesting).

The upside is, chances are the other party goers jobs are probably some sort of administrative role or a traditional profession that isn't at all exciting. You won't care what they do either, because most people's jobs are boring. Not everyone can be, or wants to be a Frog Shaker.

Re:Disagree. (1)

Larryish (1215510) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083906)

Bill Gates's money made him more interesting to hookers. And also mooches. Don't forget the mooches.

Apple schmapple (1)

jholyhead (2505574) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083704)

Programmers have always been cool. What they are today, is fashionable.

They made programmers cool, but programs suck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083712)

The signal-to-noise ratio in the Apple app store is amazingly low (this is also true in the Android market). For every useful app, there are seemingly hundreds that are useless and/or simply stupid.

Thanks Apple, but we were fine as we were! (1)

FBeans (2201802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083716)

Even if this was true, and programmer's were now considered "cool", Apple wouldn't be the reason. Apple has managed to presuade a lot of people that a "good" product is what they need, and choice and variation and controll over their products is not needed. But I don't think they have made Programmers cool. Not to stab at Apple, they area great buissness, but then so is Ryanair. As every generation is born, the knowledge and understanding of computing in gerenal increases. Programming is taught at younger age and it's now a socially understood concept, and now it's understood I think there is an increased respect for programs and hence programmers. Which is good, I guess.

Why is this a "programming" article? (4, Insightful)

binarstu (720435) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083726)

The article gets started by claiming that, because of the App Store, programming "is now one of the most stylish and dramatically lucrative jobs in the world." The author's evidence? The "the two cousins who made Angry Birds" and "the brothers who made Doodle Jump". Right. There were no outlier cases of a few lucky people getting ridiculously rich off of software until Apple came along with their App Store.

The rest of the article goes more or less downhill from there. No real evidence for anything, just a few anecdotes, lots of baseless speculation, and unfettered fawning over Apple.

I could accept this if it were categorized in the "humor" section.

Has Apple Made Programmers Cool? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083740)

Yes, the Apple ][ changed a lot for us programmers.

What is this App Store they are talking about?

Hey! Something cool has happened! (2)

Tomsk70 (984457) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083750)

Let's find a way to make this attributable to Apple, because all the apple-owners will then read it to reinforce how *they've* made a difference!

In other words, another slow day at Cnet - what bothers me more is that Slashdot takes this sort of speculation and repeats it as 'news' - which is a bit worrying on a site that has a motto of 'stuff that matters'.

Superheroes... right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083764)

...

Interesting product- cool, programming- not cool (1)

hism (561757) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083772)

I think creating anything that someone values would appear 'cool' to them because it relates to their life in some way. For instance, creating the iPhone is cool because they use it every day. Getting into the details of programming an operating system for the phone, talking about the kernel's scheduler, etc, will never be cool. The same way that rock music is cool, but an in-depth conversation about the intricacies of music theory at a party is decidedly not cool.

"Appillionaire" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083778)

"Appillionaire?!" REALLY?! That doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. Why not "Appercenter" or "I will be looking for work in 5 years when this fad begins to fade."

Ah, the Journalist Reality Distortion Field (5, Insightful)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083802)

Journalist - specifically columnists - live in a social media bubble, mostly interacting with other columnists, PR bunnies, socialites and assorted wasters and parasites, among whom iProducts are essentially de rigour. Daaaahling, surely you're not still using that palaeolithic iPhone 3, one might as well just bash two rocks against one's head until one is tempted to vote Republican. (snorts of laughter, clink of glasses)

Among their social whirl, I'm sure that iApp iDevelopers are like adorable little nerd godlings, but I don't think we can generalise from that to the real world.

Missing the obvious (3, Insightful)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#38083808)

Millionaires are cool nomatter what they do. I saw a program where the averagely attractive (being generous) easyjet entrepreneur Stelios Haji-Ioannou was discussing [wikipedia.org] really boring things like margins, volumes, etc. with his business manager in an airport lounge when a lot of young and attractive females came to get his signature - because he is an unmarried billionaire! I am pretty sure that a convenience store manager holding a similar conversation would have been ignored.

cool eh? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083834)

That may be the case. But coding still sucks.

Congratulations (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083840)

You've succesfully submmited the most STUPID story ever to be on Slashdot. Congratulations.

You may also submit a story about how iPad and iPhone will cure cancer in the future.
My god.

Already dying at the time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38083860)

That perception was already dying several years before Apple's app-store came out as *using* computers all the time became more pervasive in our culture.

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