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Occupy Flash?

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the bet-the-police-can't-clear-this-one-out dept.

It's funny.  Laugh. 507

mcgrew writes "CNN is reporting another Occupy movementOccupy Flash. Their aim: get rid of Flash completely. They explain: 'Why does it matter when HTML5 has clearly won the fight for the future of our web browsing? Well, as we've seen with other outdated web technologies (most notably the much-lamented Internet Explorer 6), as long as software is installed on machines, there will be a contingent of decision makers who mandate its use, and there will be a requirement of continued support, the plugin will live on, and folks will continue to develop for it.' In response, a group of Flash developers have started Occupy HTML in Flash's defense. Popcorn, anyone?"

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I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (5, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087032)

Clearly the "Occupy" meme is being abused now. Every dipshit with any pet cause is slapping "Occupy" on it and co-opting solidarity with the OWS movement. "Occupy" is teetering on the edge of really jumping the shark here. If it goes much further, we run the risk of "Hey, remember that whole 'Occupy' fad? What was with THAT, huh?" becoming a segment on VH1's Hey, Remember The Teens? episode on 2011.

Therefore I propose we Occupy "Occupy" before it's too late. We must stand up to those who would steal our term. Because if we don't make a stand today, tomorrow we may be faced with Twilight fans wearing "Occupy Edward" and "Occupy Jacob" t-shirts, which can only lead to nostalgic Gen-Xer's wearing lame "Occupy Empire" and "Occupy Rebellion" Star Wars shirts.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087052)

I can see it now, this is the start of Occupygate.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087266)

I'm an Occupyholic myself.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (0)

firex726 (1188453) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087064)

Occupy seems to the new "Gate".

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (4, Funny)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087148)

Bill Gates is clearly in the 1%.

Occupy Gate.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (1)

firex726 (1188453) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087224)

I cant wait till I actually see that one TV.
Just need some scandal, and I'm sure that's what they'll coin it.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (3, Interesting)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087522)

Did Bill Gates rape and murder a young startup in 1991? I'm not saying he did but I find it interesting that he's never denied it. I think he called it "buying out" [wikia.com]

.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (5, Funny)

arth1 (260657) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087302)

Isn't it just a common mislatinization? Clearly it should be occupodes!

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (5, Funny)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087088)

I'm Occupying my livingroom this weekend! If my wife tries to make me move, well, I won't be intimidated with threats from authority figures!

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (4, Funny)

cobrausn (1915176) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087362)

I've always thought the best way to govern is to favor incentive over punishment. I'm sure she could think of a way to get you moving...

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (2)

heathen_01 (1191043) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087646)

Punishment is cheaper & quicker.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (1)

CheshireDragon (1183095) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087480)

indeed, I am going to be Occupying some beer while Occupy(put favorite football team here) game.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (0)

rim_namor (2454342) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087106)

I see you like to occupy stuff, so I put an occupy into your occupy so you can occupy while you occupy.

Occupish?

Occupy elrous0 (5, Funny)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087114)

Consider your comment occupied. I'm not even sure why, but I thought I better get in on the fad before I start to look uncool.

It's a shit meme and anyway George Bush beat them all to it years ago with Occupy Afghanistan in 2001 and Occupy Iraq in 2003.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (5, Funny)

Talderas (1212466) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087118)

That's it. It's time to Occupy Slashdot.

No longer will we idly stand by and stand for the continuation of all the Bitcoin slashvertisements!

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087126)

Bit like Microsoft talking about " open " when it's anything but :)

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087144)

Yea, well, I'll be Occupying this thread until oppressors like you stop trampling my rights to use the word occupy.

IANAL (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087168)

If you want my opinion IANAL but I can insert some good points into the discussion

* Plugging The Analogue Hole - This was just bullshit by the MPAA designed to lock up your digital content
* Flash is a good technology many people do it but getting rid of it would help no one
* this is a discussion about buttsex

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087176)

This is what happens when your movement has no, or very loosely defined, goals.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087444)

No, this is what happens when the concept goes mainstream. It enters the collective consciousness and people feal they own it. And they start using it as a way to express dissent, dissatisfaction, even for funny or silly reasons. This is a win. Make no mistake about it.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087518)

people feal they own it

Oh wow, I've never seen THAT kind of spelling error.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087626)

This is what happens when your movement has no, or very loosely defined, goals.

Agreed. So we should double-down on loosely defined goals and "Occupy Anonymous", right? What do I win?

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (4, Funny)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087186)

Yeah... it really went over the top when United Artists announced that the Bond film would be called:

Occupyssy.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087502)

Staring the worlds first hipster James Bond.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (3, Funny)

mx+b (2078162) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087230)

"Occupy" is teetering on the edge of really jumping the shark here.

I believe the term is "nuking the fridge" now.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087354)

I just can't keep up anymore. Do you know that just *yesterday* I learned that owling had replace planking? And even that still probably leaves me several memes back.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (1)

Intropy (2009018) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087276)

I'd help out, but I'm too preoccupied with my own problems.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (2)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087312)

I think the Occupy Wall Street protest is called that because they are not protesting Wall Street but Wall Street as a symbol of a larger problem.

These other ones are just being stupid.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (1)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087372)

> Clearly the "Occupy" meme is being abused now.

Now?? Where have you been??

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087424)

Man, I was calling out "Occupy" back when it was hip--unlike you Johnny-Come-Lately poseurs only calling it out *now*.

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (2)

Barsteward (969998) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087376)

Probably be iOccupy.....

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087432)

Occupy Anonymity!
Occupy Cowardice!

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087628)

Why would anyone want to be associated with a bunch of rabble like the occupy movement anyway? Does Occupy Flash intend to cybersquat on some domain names and shout incoherent anti Adobe rhetoric at people who have the misfortune to land there?

Re:I propose we Occupy "Occupy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087644)

In his 1968 book, "Revolution for the Hell of It," Abbie Hoffman famously juxtaposed the following:

"In a Revolution one wins or dies." (Ernesto "Che" Guevara) and
"Dash: A revolution in cleansing power" (from a TV commercial)

The notion notion that American business and culture will act quickly to commodify anything new is no longer news, but still pathetic.

Unfortunate (5, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087042)

I think the Occupy Wall Street movement is tackling an important issue, and co-opting the name for a trivial issue like this is unnecessary and unfortunate.

Re:Unfortunate (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087082)

What issue are they takling? You talk to people and they have no clue what they are demanding... it is simply a disorganized mess.

Re:Unfortunate (3, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087116)

That's an insult to disorganized messes. Even a disorganized mess makes more sense than the Occupy movement(s).

Re:Unfortunate (4, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087284)

I feel like I get the gist of the Occupy movement, just as people get the gist of the Tea Party. I agree that neither is definitive enough to be considered a political party, but pushing in a general direction and keeping some flavor of issues on the front burner can be constructive.

If the press really wanted to understand the Occupy movement, it wouldn't just stand back and complain that the movement is not producing a manifesto. Rather, they would take an empirical approach, by conducting surveys with the protesters, to see which attitudes best characterize them, statistically. (Quick, somebody write an app for that).

Re:Unfortunate (4, Insightful)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087338)

It's really bad. I saw an interview with one of the occupiers who had been given the boot the other day and when they asked her what she thought of the coppers evicting her and the other protesters she said "maybe it was what we needed." I think she is right.

Re:Unfortunate (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087140)

Who have you spoken to? ... or do you mean the media are reporting that people they talk to have no clue?

Re:Unfortunate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087260)

Yup. It's a media conspiracy. The people I have talked to who participate either want
A) The bank to forgive their mortgage
B) The gov't to forgive their student loan debt
C) The 1% to pay more in taxes.

C might be legitimate. A and B are just whiny bitches.

Re:Unfortunate (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087554)

D) The 1% to be held more responsible/accountable for their actions, given that they have more power in controlling the direction of the country, than any other 1%.

(mind you, the remaining 99% could do more than they are to direct the country, and I suspect this movement is part of that finally starting to happen).

Re:Unfortunate (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087282)

The media has spoken to the protesters on the street. So unless OWS has been secretly organized by some hidden cabal, who else is there?

Perhaps you have the names of a few comrades you'd care to share with us? Things will go easier for you if you do.

Re:Unfortunate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087492)

I've spoken to many on the Occupy SF movement on the corner of Market & Spear as I walk by each day. Not a single person of the dozen or so I talked to has a plan. It's just "lets end wall street" and "time for fair distribution on wealth". But when you ask how are they going to do that, there isn't anything behind their ideas.

Re:Unfortunate (2)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087608)

Reminds me of that scene in PCU [wikipedia.org] where the main characters are being approached by the various causeniks in the quad, none of whom have any real understanding of the causes they're espousing. When one of the causeniks urges them to "Free Nelson Mandela!" they have to explain to him that Nelson Mandela has already *been* freed.

Re:Unfortunate (0)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087286)

it is simply a disorganized mess.

In their defense, it's tough to organize with all that noise from the drum circles.

Also, they're VERY high right now, and will be totally sure to get around to it tomorrow.

Re:Unfortunate (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087430)

Try reading the signs instead of listening to right-wing radio. You might start to understand it.

Re:Unfortunate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087264)

'Tackling' is an unfortunate word use here, because typically, in football, you tackle someone when they have the ball (provided you are playing defense). This means that the goal is clear and the means by which you will achieve this goal is also clear - knock that bastard off his feet. The 'Occupy' movement has no such clarity, either of purpose or solution.

Re:Unfortunate (-1, Flamebait)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087344)

What issue is that? That a bunch of idiots are having a street party calling it a 'movement' when all they really need to do is actually fucking vote rather than being whiney little bitches?

The people protesting don't know what their protesting and are too ignorant to learn that there is a really simple way to accomplish the goal they claim to seek and it only takes about 30 minutes of your time once a year, or two depending on how involved you actually want to get.

The only issue here is that uneducated idiots don't know how their country works.

Re:Unfortunate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087412)

Who's the idiot here? I think it's you. Remember Citizens United? Individual votes mean nothing now that corporations can use unlimited money to fool voters by the million.
 
I guess you just don't know how your country works now. You think the solution is more of the same, where the people being boned by corporations play the game by the rules of the boners.
 
What a schmuck you are, and ignorant too.

Re:Unfortunate (2, Insightful)

Jonner (189691) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087374)

Though OWS has fuzzy goals, they clearly seem to be against corporate control. What better symbol of corporate control is there than Flash? OWS's issue may be more important, but technology standards are not trivial.

Re:Unfortunate (1)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087388)

But it *is* funny!

Re:Unfortunate (2, Insightful)

kimvette (919543) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087402)

Really? What is OWS's stated goal? To be a nuisance? To institution a communist system like the Soviets had, where you get paid even if you don't show up to work, can't get fired, but also no one (except elitist tyrants) can afford anything, and there is nothing in the stores to buy anyhow?

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll take my chances with capitalism where a combination of work, ingenuity and luck can result in accumulation of wealth.

Re:Unfortunate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087606)

Communists flew you to the moon. No work, ingenuity or luck will fly you to the moon now.

Re:one you mean ten .. (1)

hebertrich (472331) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087442)

There's a lot of noise when you get your ear on the ground.For years people have been held hostages to deadend jobs living paycheck to paycheck and be abused of by the executives being paid a million to one for the employees. It's about indecent and totally selfish people that have no conscience of the harm they inflict to the people of America.
There is an URGENT need for people to start demonstrating and join in. Those who dont either are totally blinded by the lies of the politicians ( in particular the right ) and fear fear about collapsing economies , wars and terrorists not to mention catastrophic destructions by the same people who are using them like modern day slaves ! For crying out loud , arent you tired of electing people who dont represent you but only the interrests of their rich corporate masters and party contributors. There is a lot more to be totally pissed off of the reality of how the US government treat it's " citizens " .
The reform cannot leave the huge chunks that are the government and regulating bodies who make it possible for the corporations of treating people like such .It's government approved ! .. So vote left or right , you're screwed both ways. Fantastic .. what a great democratic model .
TO get rid of the problem , one must introduce amandments or whatever is required to facilitate the arrival of new political parties in the US.
The problem is the establishment. Get rid of it by getting the " Mr Smith goes to Washington " types elected , You got to get rid of those parties to be able to effect any significant change or betterment of the situation for the US Citizen.

It's obvious.

I therefore would like to see the following changes implemented , kind of an option that should be considered to the actual system.The People of the USA would be voting on all law projects which would be proposed by representatives that , once you cut the establishment out of the equation , would represent the interrest of the People and Citizens , which no party at the moment does really . So . politicians would be free to propose anything they like cause the only ones making the decisions on that level would be the people.
That sounds a bit more democratic to me .. Democracy is not one man voting for 10 million others , it's letting the people's voice express itself and be the guide to a society that will tremendously benifit from it. i mean .. it's early and im out of coffee .. bbl

Yeah right (1)

Anrego (830717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087046)

I get that this is mainly humor, but does anyone actually think this is going to have any kind of impact. Most users don't even realize what it is they are installing when they click the "click here to install required add-on" button.

I'm all for the quick death of Flash .. much as it is maligned, it enabled a lot of the really cool stuff we have today.. but it's time for it to die. I don't see this "movement" making any actual difference however.

Glad I read this, I learned a few things (4, Insightful)

kiwimate (458274) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087274)

Though the 15-year old technology is still commonly used for advertisements, videos and games, many developers have been moving toward more modern and universal standards like HTML5

Well that's pretty impressive. It's been around for 15 years, and is still heavily used. That said, HTML5 is looking pretty sure to eclipse it, eventually.

"We feel this move effectively creates two Internets -- the one you can use on mobile/tablets and the one you can use on the desktop," one of the founders of the Occupy Flash movement said via e-mail. "This is not good for anyone except Adobe."

Now that I know it's been around for 15 years, I'm kind of impressed it's still working, and not terribly surprised that it hasn't morphed well into newer technologies that are being used in ways people were only beginning to think of at the turn of the millenium. I know 15 years is not that unusual for some technologies, like mainframes, but just think about the rapid pace of development in web standards, graphics cards and algorithms, etc.

Huh, I wonder what Adobe thinks [adobe.com] .

HTML5 is now universally supported on major mobile devices, in some cases exclusively. This makes HTML5 the best solution for creating and deploying content in the browser across mobile platforms. We are excited about this, and will continue our work with key players in the HTML community

Seems reasonable. As does this:

Our future work with Flash on mobile devices will be focused on enabling Flash developers to package native apps with Adobe AIR for all the major app stores. We will no longer continue to develop Flash Player in the browser to work with new mobile device configurations

Fair enough. What about security fixes?

We will of course continue to provide critical bug fixes and security updates for existing device configurations. We will also allow our source code licensees to continue working on and release their own implementations.

Spiffy.

Aren't there more important things these people could be spending their time on?

Re:Glad I read this, I learned a few things (2)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087428)

I've yet to see HTML5 as an alternative for casual flash games though. Granted, volume wise flash is used much more for videos than games, but there are many popular websites out there for casual gaming that are powered almost exclusively by Flash. Ignoring this segment of Flash's users and pretending that we can just make flash go *poof* and disappear without addressing that use case is pretty foolish in my opinion.

Re:Glad I read this, I learned a few things (2)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087568)

Well that's pretty impressive. It's been around for 15 years, and is still heavily used.

Why is that impressive? 15 years is nothing in comparison to C's 39 years, Fortran's 54 years, the Zilog80's 35 years, etc. Only idiots who constantly jump to the latest "ooh shiny" fad technology would think 15 years is all that long. Tried and true tech lasts many times longer.

Re:Yeah right (1)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087370)

does anyone actually think this is going to have any kind of impact.

Some obviously do or they wouldn't have started it. Personally, I thought it was pretty silly, and it seems so do most other slashdotters. There are some good comments.

I doubt Occupy Flash will kill Flash, and I think the Flash occupiers are wasting their time. It's like putting a man on death row who's already dying of cancer. I'm of the belief that flash will die on its own, like so many other obsolete technologies (and other technologies that died that maybe shouldn't have).

Why would anybody install an add-on when the browser can do it without the add-on? HTML5 is capable (or so I've read), so Flash, although once necessary, no longer is.

I think the "Occupy HTML" is even sillier, a bunch of developers trying to hang on to their outmoded skills. Occupy COBOL, anyone? Flash developers, time to take some new classes.

Zap! (2, Funny)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087060)

Just an electric chair so we can properly deal with Flash and Flash developers. The beast must die.

Occupy Java (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087100)

Ellison can redeem himself by eliminating Java

Thank goodness (1)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087122)

Thank goodness I hate flash- always have- worst thing to have happened to the web. OK, shockwave is worse.

And what percentage of malware took advantage of flash flaws- it was quite a high percent if I recall.

The "Occupy HTML" isn't a giant flash website? (1)

Ex Machina (10710) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087136)

But it still has the problem of not being able to link to the internal sections. Good job!

Occupy HTML, written in HTML (4, Funny)

RicardoGCE (1173519) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087142)

Game, set, match.

Re:Occupy HTML, written in HTML (2)

Jonner (189691) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087438)

Indeed, it's a beautiful site (though a direct copy of Occupy Flash [occupyflash.org] ) with no Flash dependency at all. The only way it uses Flash is to detect if it's installed. I'm skeptical it's serious at all. I have a sneaking suspicion one person dreamed the whole thing up, including both sites.

Re:Occupy HTML, written in HTML (3, Informative)

FumarMata (1340847) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087456)

You didn't understand a word. They are saying that for certain websites, it's better to use HTML and for other websites it's better to use Flash. To do all websites only in Flash or only in HTML is a mistake. One might think that it's a reasonable response... but well, some times you have to explain it twice for people to understand. Or people should read/listen before talking about something

Occupy Occupy (0)

Anne_Nonymous (313852) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087150)

I so sick of the Occupy Whatever phraseology that I'm protesting with an Occupy Occupy movement.

(O) Occupy Inside (1)

John Sokol (109591) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087180)

Oh please, Flash vs. HTML is nonsense. There are some real issues at hand here, like who controls the software that we live on.
See my site that talks about this http://occupyinside.org/ [occupyinside.org]

Occupy /. (1)

caywen (942955) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087190)

This whole thing helps keep me occupied.

informative TacoTuaco (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087212)

Culture of abuse Waal: *BSD faces a who sell another I read the latest distribution. As [gay-sex-access.com]? it has to be fun There's no All major surveys

Cartoons - newgrounds.com (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087222)

So, how will cartoonists and animators share their work? People (geeks especially) seem to entirely forget that flash was never intended to create applications, it was vector animation software, so calling for it to stop being used entirely because HTML5 "has won" if a ridiculous statement.

pissing contests (5, Insightful)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087234)

HTML5 is not a superset of Flash.
Flash is not a superset of HTML5.

Get over the pissing contests and use the right tool for the job.

Re:pissing contests (1)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087278)

And that is always HTML5 right! ;)

Re:pissing contests (5, Interesting)

Jonner (189691) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087530)

HTML5 is not a superset of Flash.
Flash is not a superset of HTML5.

Get over the pissing contests and use the right tool for the job.

Saying Flash is appropriate for a web site is like saying IPX/SPX are appropriate protocols for a LAN connecting to the Internet. Sure, it can be done, but it's a stupid way to do it and thankfully went away many years ago.

The right tools to create web sites are web standards. Even Adobe agrees with that; they've actually been promoting HTML5 for a while. They're still promoting AIR for desktop apps I think. I have no interest in that, but it is apparently the right too for some people.

Re:pissing contests (1)

spottedkangaroo (451692) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087576)

AIR would be fine by me (who cares what it runs imo, even if a slow crappy platform), but they dropped linux support, making Pandora One a PITA to run.

Re:pissing contests (2)

Artraze (600366) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087552)

Agreed. But part of the problem is that Flash's existence is a higher cost than HTML5. Flash a is closed source, singular implementation that exists outside the control of the browser. As a result, it increases attack vectors and can subvert browser managed privacy (e.g. having it's own cache and cookies). Sandboxing helps, but is more of a hack than a proper solution.

So, even if HTML5 isn't a superset of Flash, it does offer clear benefits in it's implementation. So if Flash's unique benefits are _mostly_ within HTML5, then it's quite possible Flash, while not replaced, quite simply isn't worth it anymore. This is rather why Silverlight was DOA: it just didn't offer enough to be worth having another plugin to maintain.

Re:pissing contests (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087602)

A pig is not a superset of Scala.
Scala is not a superset of a pig.

MMmmmmm Bacon.... sorry what was the question?

Can we get rid of Java while we're at it? (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087256)

See title...

Re:Can we get rid of Java while we're at it? (-1, Flamebait)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087490)

Oh, and another thing...FUCK PERL!

That's right, PHP all the way, bitches!!

As much as I hate flash.. (5, Insightful)

Superken7 (893292) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087290)

As much as I hate flash, you gotta admit flash existed for a reason: it filled the gaps where HTML was more lacking. Unfortunately, that's still true today even with HTML5, although the trend towards HTML5 is very obvious and clear.

Many browsers still can't playback HTML5 properly and there isn't even a single video codec which will work consistently across browsers just like flash does, AFAIK. (I'm talking about h264 license issues, WebM's lack of hardware decoding, etc..).
Also, while rich media solutions are certainly possible with CSS3 and javascript, it still requires significantly more effort than its flash counterparts.

Of course, that doesn't excuse many many (many) uses where flash isn't really necessary but still being used. THAT must go. And flash video should be avoided where possible if the browser supports anything else. I think the main issue with that is that many web developers are still being lazy (hey, megavideo, I'm looking at you!).

But flash still accomplishes some things across browsers consistently in a way that HTML5 and CSS3 still can't - or at least not effortlessly for the web developer, which is what counts most of the times; let's hope Adobe helps with that with the HTML5 tools they are building.

So don't blame everything on flash, the standards are advancing too slowly IMHO even with backers such as Apple and Google.

"I hate flash" is the new "I hate Microsoft" (2)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087406)

Except with less rationale to it. Why anyone gets worked up about a plugin that does what its supposed to do reasonably well and has some very comprehensive development tools I have no idea. Its probably the sort of people who really have nothing to complain about in their lives but are still at the age where they need a "cause" to feel worthy who are making the most noise about it.

Re:"I hate flash" is the new "I hate Microsoft" (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087454)

Have you ever tried using the plugin in linux? It does not do what it is supposed to and it does not do it reasonably well.

Re:"I hate flash" is the new "I hate Microsoft" (3, Informative)

jcupitt65 (68879) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087596)

It's pretty awful on OS X as well. Flash 10 needed about 6x more CPU on OS X than Windows and crashed every 10 minutes or so. According to this elderly benchmark anyway.

http://arstechnica.com/software/news/2008/10/benchmarking-flash-player-10.ars [arstechnica.com]

Re:As much as I hate flash.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087520)

One of the biggest hurdle to a total elimination of Flash are the lack of video and audio input from JavaScript. There are some projects that add a webcam input API but all the ones I know use Flash internally. See https://github.com/taboca/CamCanvas-API- http://code.google.com/p/jpegcam/ and http://www.xarg.org/project/jquery-webcam-plugin/

Then there is the matter of some old slow JavaScript interpreters (the old IEs) that make applications painfully slow.

Re:As much as I hate flash.. (1)

Jonner (189691) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087598)

Flash was created for a reason and for many years was necessary to do some things like play video and sound. Even if it's still more convenient for those things, it's no longer necessary. The more web developers abandon it, the more pressure there will be to improve implementations of web standards for the things that Flash has been used for. The longer people hold out against the change, the more painful it will be for all of us.

Crashplayer HAS TO GO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087396)

There are other means of watching videos online with HTML5.

Don't tell me you are using Crashplayer for something else than watching videos online. If so... you're a joke.

Adobe Flash as a Content Classifier (5, Interesting)

mmmbeer (9963) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087398)

Flash must live on! If Flash dies out then that means highly annoying and CPU-hogging advertisements will be converted into HTML5 and get around my simple flashblock. I don't like Flash as much as the next guy but when you can currently carte blanche disable flash and easily remove the most heinous of web content, I fully support its continued use.

Re:Adobe Flash as a Content Classifier (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087640)

Install.... wait for it... Adblock Plus! :-P

I hate Flash (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087440)

But let's be serious here, HTML can't reliably replace all of the features of Flash, yet.

HTML has basically no hardware support, the hardware API is still under discussion last I checked.
Besides that, various other things are quite a bit harder to do, be it streaming media or the whole codec mess

And of course, the biggest of all, lack of portability due to basically no direct storage of binary data.
Although in the latter case it is possible to store SOME binary data in strings, you have to make sure it doesn't terminate strings, so you still need to convert data to something not directly binary-based in order to work.
Base64 is the current standard method for storing data easily, in addition to adding 133% on to the size if I remember correct.
This is also a good and bad thing. Good because it means a bigger mess to get around when it comes to people trying to leech media even though everything is in plainttext, and grabbing media is incredibly easy with developer tools anyway, Chrome Inspector is incredibly handy for this. Bad because the whole less portable part, so no more easy sharing of games anymore. (be it between friends, or actually getting them all added on to a gaming website as a great example)

In fact, speaking of the gaming side of Flash, lack of portability in the HTML side is essentially going to destroy the minds of everyone trying to get around the headaches of integrating HTML games in to sites.
Flash is a container. Throwing a script in to a page can cause havoc, particularly in the cases where people might have re-used variable names that also exist in the global scope. (which is a fault of JavaScript, as well as the ungodly number of resources on JavaScript that don't even explain how the hell you even remove things from the global scope in the first place, which resulted in this mess!)

So, yeah, I really hate Flash, it is terribly inefficient, insecure and almost the entire community of developers are terrible at using it to write efficient code.
Wait... sorta like JavaScript I guess. Hmm...

"Legacy" websites (2)

iB1 (837987) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087460)

As long as there are websites out there that aren't been updated, then Flash is here to stay

All of these "occupy" movements make me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087482)

not want to live on this planet anymore.

I want Flash back (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087484)

When HTML5 wasn't the "future", every bling-obsessed art director chose Flash, and it was easily blocked and sites that relied on it ignored, because sane web designers knew not to rely on it. Nowadays you can't even Google properly anymore because every text field is broken beyond repair by tons of Javascript that breaks in anything but the very latest browser. I hate HTML5.

Occupy HTML Site (2)

tlongren (997777) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087486)

Does anyone else find it hilarious that the Occupy HTML site is done in HTML5?

This site requires that you do not have Flash... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087494)

Please uninstall Flash and try again.

Flash was great but it's the past (1)

mmontuori (2508452) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087512)

Flash was a great technology, but it's the past, time to look towards the future with HTML5.
http://www.montuori.net/ [montuori.net]

Flash is dead but flash will survive (1)

codgur (1518013) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087536)

Flash is gone from all my machines. The thing is the kids play Club Penguin....requires flash. Transcender is used to study for tests....requires flash. Illustrators that work at big firms (who are the folks that draw whatever they want and it looks insanely good) ask about HTML5 and how it will replace flash. They are concerned that the design will be in the hands of the programmers when told that the final implementation will be in the programmers hands not the look and feel, they are not comforted. Mobile Flash's demise has led to a huge concern among regular web flash designers. IMHO flash may be on its way out but it is very far from dead, still very much in use today, and it has some foot steps that will take HTML5 a long time to fill (if ever): illustrators ceding power to the programmers.

Occupy this comment! (1)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087538)

I did! Who's with me? Down with the unoccupied 1%... or something.

Occupy screwdrivers... (2)

FumarMata (1340847) | more than 2 years ago | (#38087540)

Occupy screwdrivers, use hammers

Flash non-Security **is** the issue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38087560)

I don't have any issues with flash features. To me it is that Adobe is unwilling to make necessary changes that will break existing flash files to keep it relevant. Flash has a huge number of security holes which will continue indefinitely - THAT is the main reason to stop using it.

Adobe's management is the issue here.

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