Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Apple Addresses Factory Pollution In China

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the progress-marches-on dept.

Businesses 190

redletterdave writes "Apple reportedly sent five employees to meet with five different Chinese environmental groups on Nov. 15, only to learn about several troubling environmental issues at as many as 22 different product parts suppliers. In the three-hour meeting, the Chinese environmentalist coalition claimed the factories were releasing toxic gasses, heavy metal sludge and other pollutants. Apple acknowledged that a number of its supply firms have failed to properly keep track of their wastewater emissions and vowed to improve its environmental standards for suppliers; this is the first time Apple has admitted any wrongdoing in relation to environmental pollution from any of its Chinese supply chains. The meeting comes one month after one of Apple's Chinese suppliers of MacBook parts was shut down by China's government in response to resident complaints of 'unbearable odors,' which were described as a mix of chemical fertilizer and burning plastic."

cancel ×

190 comments

Really? (4, Insightful)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089740)

I'm not an apple fan, I like Linux. However all hardware manufacturers are guilty here not just apple.

Re:Really? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089788)

Apple, by sheer volume, dwarfs many of the others. Apple deals in China, many others dont. Apple trades on it's "hip, progressive" image, others don't.

When you tell everyone you're better, and more responsible than your competitors, dont squawk when you get held to the higher standards your corporate team pretends to have.

I expect Asus to behave like this, not Apple. I expect a drug addict to steal, not a wall street banker.

Re:Really? (5, Funny)

M. Baranczak (726671) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089840)

I expect a drug addict to steal, not a wall street banker.

Well, there's your problem right there.

Re:Really? (-1, Offtopic)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090092)

Wow, someone managed to slip in a super subtle reference to OWS in an unrelated article. What a shocker.

Mods, in case you were wondering what the proper mod to use for parent is, its "offtopic".

Re:Really? (2)

NatasRevol (731260) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090262)

Mods, in case you were wondering what the proper mod to use for parent is, its "No fucking sense of humor".

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090750)

Aww, is someone feeling left out because their asinine rantings aren't wanted by OWS? So sowwy.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090550)

Even if the AC was you, that was nicely set up.

Re:Really? (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089872)

First Steve Jobs, now his precious fabrics......nooooooooo, the torture, it is unbearable.

Re:Really? (4, Insightful)

chartreuse (16508) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090704)

Are you kidding? Dell and HP make a third of all PCs (and half of the ones sold in the US, where Apple's share is peaking at 15%). And they (along with ASUS) are some of FoxConn's biggest customers. They surely have as much pull as Apple, but they don't use it, do they?

Re:Really? (2)

bhcompy (1877290) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090870)

You realize that Apple doesn't just make PCs, right?

Re:Really? (3, Insightful)

coinreturn (617535) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089802)

I'm not an apple fan, I like Linux. However all hardware manufacturers are guilty here not just apple.

Actually, Apple and other manufacturers are NOT responsible for their SUPPLIERS' mishaps.

Re:Really? (5, Insightful)

ganjadude (952775) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089830)

no they are not, you are right

but

they can choose to use suppliers who do not pollute, and people can decide not to shop with a company that uses suppliers who pollute. slightly different but in the same vein, look at the nike sweatshop issue for proof that shoppers do care about the conditions that suppliers work

Re:Really? (5, Insightful)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090950)

no they are not, you are right

Actually, yes they are, he's wrong.

they can choose to use suppliers who do not pollute,

That contradicts what you said before. Because if they don't choose good suppliers, they're effectively condoning and supporting bad ones.

Obligatory car analogy: If you get food poisoning at a restaurant, it's the restaurant who is liable, not the shithead who sold them defrosted prawns as fresh ones. Or should I say directly liable, i.e. to you; should you sue the restaurant, they can probably charge the vendor in turn.

In short: you're responsible to your customers for consequences caused by any and all subcontractors/suppliers you choose. And this makes 100% sense - if you weren't, you could get away with all kinds of scams using shell/sockpuppet companies. And that's reserved for Wall Street [dradadaTISH]

Re:Really? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089864)

I'm not an apple fan, I like Linux. However all hardware manufacturers are guilty here not just apple.

Actually, Apple and other manufacturers are NOT responsible for their SUPPLIERS' mishaps.

Yes they are. Both the US and Europe have laws that clearly state companies can't use third world slave labor and smog factories to reduce their costs. They are expected to do due diligence on the factories and ensure standards are met, as well as ensure children are not part of the slave workforce. Whether those making the law bother to check up on the likes of Apple & Co is another matter.

Re:Really? (2)

Bucky24 (1943328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090120)

Really? Then why do so many do it? Clearly those laws don't have much of an effect...

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090370)

Really? Then why do so many do it?

Profit motive, regulatory capture and consumers who just don't care.

Re:Really? (1)

meustrus (1588597) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090130)

You wish we had those laws. Don't forget that would be a restriction to free trade! In the (fake) words of the World Trade Organization's Anthem of the Global Economy, "Free Trade is our God, Free Trade is our King, All hail Free Trade and His Invisible Hand!"

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090138)

Yes they are. Both the US and Europe have laws that clearly state companies [...]

Pfffft! Ho ho, how rich! "Laws" applying to companies! What a quaintly amusing concept! Pull the other one! Next you'll expect me to believe bankers can be arrested for massive economic fraud!

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089894)

Actually, Apple and other manufacturers are NOT responsible for their SUPPLIERS' mishaps.

Just like I'm not responsible for buying from companies that use slave labor. Of course it still makes me a shit head if I do it after knowing.

Re:Really? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089944)

It's not that simple. In one respect, they aren't responsible, but in another, they are. Let me explain...

Apple isn't those manufacturers, and didn't tell the manufacturers to do that. So, Apple is not responsible in this manner.

But: They are providing those manufacturers with continued business, which keeps them operating. So, Apple is responsible in this manner. In essence, giving them money to keep doing what they do is the same as giving the stamp of approval. Why would the leadership change the way they do business if their customer base is satisfied?

Re:Really? (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090030)

So, if i give some money to some assasion, and tell him that i am not happy to see this nasty guy across the street.....everything is fine? I am clean, right? Money does not smell, right?

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090154)

You would be if he also robs the guy, but only of the conspiracy to commit robbery charge and not the conspiracy to commit murder charge. Apple doesn't pay these suppliers to pollute. But they still have a social responsibility here.

Re:Really? (2)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090352)

Sure. Now, if you did that with an assassin then you might be in trouble, but assassions are no big deal.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090080)

Umm... Yes they are. Maybe not legally but morally. If you actually give a crap and you KNOW that the people you're working with have unbearable sweatshops that emit equally unbearable pollution, you should probably not do business with them. Just ask Joe Paterno how the "I see nothing, I know nothing" approach worked for him.

Re:Really? (1)

dyingtolive (1393037) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090152)

Sweet. I just got absolved for wearing sweat-shop made clothing.

Re:Really? (2)

Ogive17 (691899) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090180)

For what Apple charges for their products, I would at least expect them to be more responsible with their supply base.

Re:Really? (4, Interesting)

joocemann (1273720) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090264)

I disagree.

The distance that contracting places between a company and its actions is not so great a distance as compared to the company having done it themselves. Surely we could bounce analogies back and forth about cause, effect, demand, action, outsourcing, exploitative employ, etc etc...

But in the end it really comes down to this: Apple (and many other businesses) are directly responsible for contracting with firms that are known environmental abusers. The use of outsourced contracts may give the appearance of a distance from responsibility, but the actual real fact is that from start to finish, the product was made by dirty methods and they have known it all along. Its not like middle school children and high school dropouts don't already know what conditions these factories produce --- (now sarcasm) but oh, no, there is no way someone at Apple could have guessed it.... Yeah right... *roll eyes*

A company can have subsidiaries, or direct outsourcing, or whatever.... They are still part of it, if not the main cause of it. The same goes for US companies selling toys manufactured in China that have heavy metals in the paints and harm our kids... If you ask them to make your product, but you've got no questions, or tests, or safeguards, and even though everything about the history of similar chinese manufacturing tells you it is dirty (like I said, even young teens know this fact), its YOUR fault that its dirty when you sold it.

Analogy for you analogizers: If I sell food, and it turns out the people growing it are being tortured to produce it nearly for free, yet I have been sourcing the food from a place where slavery and torture is widely understood to happen, there is hardly a distance you can place between me and the fact that my food comes from said place with said problems.

Re:Really? (1)

Raenex (947668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091026)

Don't forget the consumers that turn a blind eye and focus on whatever is cheapest. There's plenty of blame to go around.

That said, it would be nice if extremely profitable companies like Apple could push standards and enforce them. They have the leverage. It would also make for good marketing.

Re:Really? (1, Insightful)

ktappe (747125) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090500)

Actually, Apple and other manufacturers are NOT responsible for their SUPPLIERS' mishaps.

Anyone who is able to improve things and opts not to is responsible.

Responsibility for the supply chain (2, Insightful)

sjbe (173966) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090528)

Actually, Apple and other manufacturers are NOT responsible for their SUPPLIERS' mishaps.

Sure they are. Apple has almost certainly been sued for problems that are/were caused by their suppliers. Apple chooses who they want to do business with and as a result bears at least some responsibility for the actions of their suppliers. While it is unrealistic to expect Apple to be responsible for every action of their suppliers, they most definitely are responsible for some of them. The supplier and Apple share responsibility for the products they jointly create AND any by-products or problems they create as well.

Re:Really? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089896)

Don't blame Apple or any US or EU company.
  China is Guilty of not having laws to minimize pollution!
China is the worlds Pollution Crap hole;
by their own decision !
Shanghai for example smells like sulfur and rotting leaves and eggs
THEY LET IT HAPPEN, they can say No, they didn't !

Re:Really? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089984)

Yeah, if they would just get rid of all of those smelly chinese people they'd be in business.

Re:Really? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090952)

Might want to look a little closer to home there. Isn't the USA the highest polluter per capita on earth right now?

Re:Really? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090018)

I am not an Apple fan either, they are dirty bastards!

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090448)

while true, apple is the one that seems to be, and is still, profiting the most from these lax conditions

Re:Really? (4, Insightful)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090544)

The real problem is the macroeconomics of the matter. Jobs' built state of the art factories for both the original Mac and NeXT [cnn.com] in the US. Both failed to return on their investment. At least Apple cares enough, wether it's due to concern for their image or genuine concern, to investigate and ameliorate conditions where possible. Most companies don't.

Possible Connection? (5, Interesting)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089744)

Apple reportedly sent five employees to meet with five different Chinese environmental groups on Nov. 15, only to learn about several troubling environmental issues at as many as 22 different product parts suppliers.

Huh, that's odd, it was back in September when Apple outright rejected these claims [cnn.com] . Perhaps Apple is free to conduct investigations with the passing of a certain misanthrope [weknowmemes.com] ?

Re:Possible Connection? (2)

meustrus (1588597) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090210)

After reading what Steve Jobs has to say about education reform, [washington...endent.com] it suddenly made sense that he's actually a soul-crushingly ambivalent-to-human-rights modern businessman, not the LSD revering environmentalist hippy that was more his image.

Re:Possible Connection? (1)

mosb1000 (710161) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090476)

Yeah, being against teachers unions is really out there.

Re:Possible Connection? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090766)

And hippies should automatically conform to conspiring with teacher's unions and the Democratic politicians that take their money to provide criminally poor education to black inner city children...why?

Apple is in decline (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090556)

Now that Steve is gone, all those seemingly evil ways that made Apple great will fade away. The new guy will not match up to his prediccessor. Just like Microsoft.

The Evil (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089746)

of Jobs is washing away. --Chinese Treebeard

Steve is turning in his grave (-1, Troll)

magsk (1316183) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089790)

If only he could see how apple is not putting absolute profit ahead of everything else. Who was the more ruthless businessman in hindsight Mr Jobs or Mr Gates?

Re:Steve is turning in his grave (3, Interesting)

truthsearch (249536) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090008)

My vote would be Gates was more ruthless. He absorbed and/or destroyed more small businesses than I could count. He lied in federal court. He used a monopoly to negatively manipulate markets. He would lose billions of dollars on a product just to undercut competition.

By contrast Jobs was an asshole and difficult to work with. This is an easy vote for me.

Re:Steve is turning in his grave (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090606)

... and Apple doesn't yet have a monopoly.

So much for "green" laptops (2, Interesting)

dingo_kinznerhook (1544443) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089800)

Apple makes a big deal about how environmentally friendly their laptop lineup is. Maybe the non-environmentally friendly stuff just stays on the other side of the ocean, somewhere where we'll never hear about it.

Re:So much for "green" laptops (2)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089946)

Apple isn't the only company that calls a product "green" as long as the pollution takes place on the other side of the world. Google "china" and "mercury poisoning".

Re:So much for "green" laptops (2)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090280)

I think they're only referring to the other side of the equation, i.e. disposal. Environmental groups took Apple to task over this a while back, and they responded with some kind of recycling initiative (to what extent, I'm not certain.)

...wow. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089804)

Apple's Chinese suppliers of MacBook parts was shut down by China's government in response to resident complaints of 'unbearable odors,'

If that's true, the Chinese government cares more about it's people than the American one.
An American government would have said something along the lines of "deal with it you pussies"

Re:...wow. (1)

Zancarius (414244) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089868)

If that's true, the Chinese government cares more about it's people than the American one.

The residents were probably party officials.

Re:...wow. (1)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090788)

That would be my guess, or family of party officials or a magistrate. Otherwise they wouldn't care.

Re:...wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089892)

Based on the fracking issues, I'd say their response would be more along the lines of "you don't have any samples showing these 'unbearable odors' were not there before the company started, therefore you can't prove the company caused them. Also, even if you did somehow prove that they weren't already there, you still can't prove they're coming from the company because we won't let you find out what chemicals the company is using."

Re:...wow. (1)

ShavedOrangutan (1930630) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090554)

In the U.S., the EPA would have been up their asses from years before the factory was even built and never let up. The regulatory red tape would be so thick that eventually the company would give up and move offshore to somewhere with less restrictions. Which, coincidentally, is exactly what they and everybody else has done. Move to China.

Cheap goods, jobs, or clean water. Which is it going to be?

Article is Troll (2, Insightful)

coinreturn (617535) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089828)

this is the first time Apple has admitted any wrongdoing in relation to environmental pollution from any of its Chinese supply chains

Blaming the user of the components (Apple) is virtually the same as blaming the end-user (consumers). It is NOT Apple's fault China has lax compliance.

Re:Article is Troll (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089918)

It is Apple's fault for hiring companies in China knowing that they do massive polluting. It's not like its a big secret that China does massive polluting with their industrial sector.

Re:Article is Troll (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090010)

It's the end users fault for buying Apple products knowing that in China they do massive polluting. It's not a big secret that Apple source from China.

Saying it's not our fault does not get it fixed. Man up.

Re:Article is Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090078)

Well I don't buy Apple products so yes I am 'manning up'.

Re:Article is Troll (4, Insightful)

NatasRevol (731260) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090326)

Can you find a computer company that doesn't use parts from China? Doubtful.

Re:Article is Troll (0)

Bucky24 (1943328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090132)

Just as its the fault of Apple consumers for buying Apple products, knowing that they hire companies that do massive polluting (no I don't actually believe this, but see where we can go with that kind of assumption?).

Re:Article is Troll (4, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090450)

It is Apple's fault for hiring companies in China knowing that they do massive polluting.

That argument would be a LOT stronger if Apple wasn't the sole company being taken to task for it.

.

Re:Article is Troll (1)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090662)

It's the fault of western governments. They could threaten China with sanctions and tariffs if they don't get their act together but since they are a) spineless b) completely disinterested in anything other than money c) indebted up to their eyeballs to China that's never going to happen.

Re:Article is Troll (4, Insightful)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089970)

I'd argue that the end-users are at fault just as much. It's hardly been a secret that the iphone you buy was manufactured by smog factories and assembled by slave labor.

Re:Article is Troll (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090066)

It's hardly been a secret that the iphone you buy was manufactured by smog factories and assembled by slave labor.

Dude, it's only "Designed" in California.

Re:Article is Troll (3, Insightful)

M. Baranczak (726671) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089978)

Bullshit. They knew that China's environmental regulations are a joke, and they still chose to have their hardware manufactured there. The pollution must be REALLY bad if the Chinese govt is actually doing something about it.

Re:Article is Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089986)

Completely different. If I buy or don't buy something manufactured by a polluter, who notices? Let me answer that for you: nobody. If Apple makes a decision based on environmental impact: a lot of companies notice. Sure if everybody acted differently, companies would notice too. But that would require organizing, which is very difficult. Especially when large chunks of the population and government actively oppose protests (e.g., "occupy" whatever).

Re:Article is Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090004)

It absolutely is Apple's fault that they continue to use suppliers with reputations so bad that even China steps back and says "Whoa guys, this is too far even for us."

What's that mean legally? Probably not much. Ethically? Well, that speaks for itself.

Two words: (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090042)

"Due diligence"

Re:Article is Troll (2)

hackingbear (988354) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090068)

Well... it could well be that Apple or other hardware buyers low-bidding the Chinese manufacturers [china.org.cn] .

Edy Jianto, general manager at Flextronics Electronics Technology (Suzhou) Co Ltd, estimated that many multinational companies enjoy a gross profit margin of between 50 to 60 percent while Chinese contract manufacturers have an average margin of around 3 percent.

Do you think you will place much emphasize in environment and labor conditions if your margin is only 3% and wouldn't you try to do whatever you can to circumvent the Chinese environmental and labor laws?.

Re:Article is Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090424)

The investors that trade Apple stock and collect the dividends also invest to build the regulation free factories in China that provide the low cost products you buy. Apple is a US shell corp for Chinese industrialists and their Western financiers, just like Walmart.

I hate apple, but? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089834)

I hate apple, but why is this apple's fault?

Re:I hate apple, but? (2)

JustAnotherIdiot (1980292) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089874)

Welcome to slashdot, where every article regarding apple is charged either heavily for/against them, depending on the editor.

Re:I hate apple, but? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38089932)

Glad we have an old timer like you here to explain things to us. Your nick says it all...

Re:I hate apple, but? (0)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089906)

Remember, the gun does not kill, only the human beings kill.....Lets sell weapons to Iraq, Iran, Syria, etc....and i mean NUCLEAR weapons. At the end of the day, what could go wrong???

Re:I hate apple, but? (1)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090006)

Guns don't kill people Apple does,

or something like that.

Hysteria drives the pollution (1)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089962)

When you see 7,000 people camped outside a store for 2 days waiting to get their grubby little paws on the latest gadget (apple, android, pc, xbox, whatever) it's a clear sign that people have Too Much (tm).

When people have Too Much (excess) there is senseless waste. It's the waste which drives the demand which drives the pollution. It's not just China. It's not just Apple. It's manufacturers responding to a demand.

Re:Hysteria drives the pollution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090218)

It's the waste which drives the demand which drives the pollution

That's like saying because you shit you desire to eat. The shit is the result of the process, not the catalyst.

I hope you aren't in charge of anything important or operating heavy machinery...

they also stopped beating their wife (5, Insightful)

HarrySquatter (1698416) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089982)

this is the first time Apple has admitted any wrongdoing in relation to environmental pollution from any of its Chinese supply chains.

Thus is also the first time they've admitted that they will stop beating their wife. Even if Apple has some "wrongdoing" to admit at.least they are doing something unlike Dell, Logitech, HP, Microsoft, IBM, Intel, AMD, Acer, Toshiba, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Cisco, Nintendo, Sony, Nokia, MSI, Vizio, Samsung, HTC, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, etc.(the list can go on) who have yet to admit their wrongdoings since they use the same suppliers.

Re:they also stopped beating their wife (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090220)

Yeah, "at least" they admit they're wrong. Of course, they've been doing it for years and publicly denying it for at least months, but the important thing is that they stuck by that denial all the way up until the Chinese government stepped up and said "Come on Apple, you're making us look bad."

No more of that. Now they can just say "But we're just like Wal-mart!"

Re:they also stopped beating their wife (4, Insightful)

HarrySquatter (1698416) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090296)

Thanks for proving my point. This is nothing but Apple bashing since countless multibillion dollar multinationals use the same suppliers yet all the bad things these suppliers do are somehow Apple's fault alone.

Re:they also stopped beating their wife (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090920)

I think you missed the point. They denied until called on it. The other multibillion dollar multinationals dont even bother to deny. Both are wrong but Apple wanted people to believe their shit didn't stink.

Keep this up and they'll have to move again (3, Funny)

jandrese (485) | more than 2 years ago | (#38089990)

Cripes, you go to all of the trouble to find the place with the loosest/most poorly enforced regulatory structure, and then suddenly the government pulls a bait and switch and starts caring about the massive toll all of it is having on the population. It's a real pain to go and find some new place where they don't care about their citizens. The modern world is a libertarian nightmare.

Re:Keep this up and they'll have to move again (0)

fsckmnky (2505008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090054)

Libertarians don't advocate the destruction of the planet and the pollution of the environment. Nice try.

Re:Keep this up and they'll have to move again (2)

sabt-pestnu (967671) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090298)

The ones that advocate deregulating industry "and letting the market sort it out" certainly are not defending the environment any, are they?

Re:Keep this up and they'll have to move again (1)

fsckmnky (2505008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090414)

I think you are equating the term "deregulation" with the concept of allowing companies absolute freedom. Deregulation means no such thing. From wikipedia:

"Deregulation is the removal or simplification of government rules and regulations that constrain the operation of market forces.[1] Deregulation does not mean elimination of laws against fraud or property rights but eliminating or reducing government control of how business is done, thereby moving toward a more laissez-faire, free market."

Note where it states "deregulation does not mean elimination of laws against fraud or property rights"

Environmental laws need not be eliminated in order to deregulate an industry. What gets eliminated is unnecessary government interference and process/price mandates, not necessary government oversight and enforcement of said environmental regulations.

Re:Keep this up and they'll have to move again (4, Insightful)

joocemann (1273720) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090388)

Passively they do.

Libertarian ideology is such that a company could produce something that nearly ablates the world of mammals (including humans), and those who live through it are supposed to not buy the product and thus the market kills the company.

Libertarian ideology does not apply in a world where the damage a company an do may take years or decades to accrue (like BPA, hormone interference, long term environmental abuse) and the market response required to make sense would be 'immediate'.

Regulations are necessary because we don't want serious damage to happen BEFORE the market responds. We want to prevent the serious damage with the best scientific understandings of safety we have, and let the market respond to the products that come from our best knowledge of safe practices.

Re:Keep this up and they'll have to move again (2)

fsckmnky (2505008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090502)

"Proprietarian libertarian philosophies define liberty as non-aggression, or the state in which no person or group aggresses against any other person or group, where aggression is defined as the violation of private property."

There is also a non-proprietarian type of libertarianism, and the difference between the 2 is important. In your above scenario, ablating the world of mammals, pollution with BPA, hormone interference, and the environment, etc. would be an aggression against people and property.

Of course "some" regulations are necessary, while "other" regulations are not, while still other regulations are wasteful, unnecessary, and harmful.

Claiming that "all deregulation is bad" without regard to the details of a specific deregulatory action, or that libertarians want absolute freedom, even if it results in the destruction of the environment and the means by which the planet is able to support life, is ridiculous.

Re:Keep this up and they'll have to move again (1)

fsckmnky (2505008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090624)

I'd like to add, that any "ideological philosophy" taken to an extreme, that causes people to behave in a manner that ignores scientific data regarding the consequences of their actions, is dangerous. That includes conservatism, libertarianism, liberalism, humanism, etc.

I'm a firm believer in data driven government policies, not belief systems that ignore reality in order to support prior assumptions.

Re:Keep this up and they'll have to move again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090408)

Well, not directly. Sure their policies may lead there, but that's not their fault!

When did Apple grow a conscience? (1)

ubergeek65536 (862868) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090014)

You think that with all the positive stuff Apple has been doing lately that they must have have a change in upper management.

Chemical fertilizer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090036)

And I thought Apple's products were made of ORGANIC fertilizer...

I thought there was no regulation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090070)

Serious question -- how did this even come to light? I thought China was completely hands-off with regards to their manufacturing industries. Isn't that (and the cheaper labor) the reason why companies choose to produce there in the first place? I guess someone didn't get paid enough and is calling in the authorities on this.

I'm sure Apple isn't too happy about this. If they're forced to use a supplier who pollutes less, that supplier is going to charge them more and shave more margin off those MacBooks they're making.

Great! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090100)

As long as they are on top of the environment, that slave labor FoxCon uses is not a problem.

Re:Great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090430)

You have an interesting definition of the word "slave."

Perhaps you'd like to share your dictionary?

admitted wrongdoing? NOT (1)

Sir Realist (1391555) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090142)

this is the first time Apple has admitted any wrongdoing in relation to environmental pollution from any of its Chinese supply chains.

Or it would be, if they had, which they haven't.

Admitting that your suppliers have environmental problems is not the same as admitting wrongdoing, as I'm sure Apple's lawyers will be happy to remind you. That they have finally admitted that their _suppliers_ have a problem, and even made noises about improving their standards for suppliers, is a big step forward for Apple which they should get credit for. Its still a long cry from admitting that they did anything wrong, or - profit margins forbid! - offering to do anything about helping to clean up the mess.

Pollution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090150)

Its not apples fault.. noo... it must be Microsoft, Bush and Obama's fault.

I love it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090216)

Whats wrong with good old fashioned pollution? You slash wussies.

Consumers just as guilty (5, Insightful)

monkeyhybrid (1677192) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090278)

If Apple are guilty of anything here, then so are the consumers of Apple products. And seeing as a large percentage of other products we buy from countless other manufacturers probably have parts manufactured in similar factories and in similar conditions, that makes pretty much all of us guilty.

More pollution please! (-1, Redundant)

Dog-Cow (21281) | more than 2 years ago | (#38090318)

The more Chinese that are killed through pollution, the better. After all, they are doing it to themselves. It doesn't matter how much Apple and others are willing to pay for manufacturing, none of these companies forced China to run with no rules, nor forced Foxconn and the like to pollute. Let the Chinese take responsibility for the Hell they created.

Worded inaccurately (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090646)

The post is clearly worded inaccurately, with an apparent bias against Apple. Rather than reading, "this is the first time Apple has admitted any wrongdoing in relation to environmental pollution from any of its Chinese supply chains," it should read, "this is the first time Apple has acknowledged any wrongdoing on the part of its Chinese suppliers in relation to environmental pollution."
I would also ask, is it really Apple's responsibility to keep an eye on Chinese companies? Shouldn't that be the responsibility of the Chinese government?

iPhone smoke -- don't breath this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38090916)

Latest version [youtube.com] he says "Siri smoke", but I know there's an older version out there somewhere...

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...