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EU Speaks Out Against US Censorship

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the play-nice dept.

Censorship 477

bs0d3 writes "The EU Parliament has adopted, 'by a large majority,' a statement warning the US to refrain 'from unilateral measures to revoke IP addresses or domain names' due to the 'need to protect the integrity of the global internet and freedom of communications.' This resolution highlights both the practices prescribed in SOPA/PIPA... but also the actions of Homeland Security and ICE in seizing domain names. By adopting a resolution against domains seizures the European Parliament recognizes the dangerous precedent the pending SOPA legislation would set, and it wouldn't be a surprise if more foreign criticism follows. No country should have the ability to simply take over international domain names, and surely the US would feel the same if this plan was put in motion by a foreign country. Or as some 60 press freedom and human rights advocate groups put it in their letter to the US representatives: 'This is as unacceptable to the international community as it would be if a foreign country were to impose similar measures on the United States.'"

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477 comments

US, get out (5, Insightful)

CmdrPony (2505686) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091192)

As an EU citizen, I find US practices completely unacceptable. Even China doesn't try to restrict other countries. They do what they have to do inside their country, but they have never tried to block or manipulate other countries to do the same. Yet US has the balls and hypocrisy to accuse China about its censorship practices, as do most US citizens here on Slashdot.

US is much worse than China. They try to force their views and laws globally. They install their own law enforcement agents inside other countries in the name of "providing training" to manipulate. They revoke IP addresses and domains used by non-US people. They try to extradite people from other countries to jail them for years in US soil. Have you noticed that most of world has actually sane amount of years you have to spend in jail if you do something bad? In US the minimum seems to be at least 10 years. Usually you can go in for life. Sometimes several lifes. In most civilized countries, you're only going to be spending more than 10 years if you kill somebody. In the same way, the sentences are longer if you physically harm someone. Not for downloading a fucking song off the internet.

This doesn't even only apply to copyright laws. This is just common practice with everything. For example, in most of Asia and South America there was nothing wrong with using some drugs. That is, before US started their whole war on drugs thing and couldn't just keep it within it's own borders. They had to start going around the world telling people what to do. Don't you seriously have better things to spend money on, like fixing your damn problems first? Regardless, there is nothing wrong with smoking some pot. It's both more relaxing and healthy than alcohol, which causes several health problems in people (and makes some people really aggressive).

And yet, US acts all surprised when they are told to get the fuck out, after which they bring out the guns and start shooting people. US is the only country in the world that has been constantly in war with at least one country. Usually there is several enemies. The whole world would be much saner, happier and peaceful place without US.

Re:US, get out (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091246)

As a US citizen, Believe me when I say that most other US citizens will agree with you.
...well, most sane ones. The number of which is rapidly dropping.

Re:US, get out (5, Funny)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091738)

Rumour has it that the movie Idiocracy was actually made by Nostrodamus and was a prediction of world affairs in the 21st century.

Re:US, get out (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091868)

I believe you. The problem with US citizens is that when they can cast their vote for the federal elections, there's a button "D" and a button "R" and, at least for privacy (PATRIOT) and intellectual property rights (MickeyMouse/DMCA/ACTA/E-PARASITE/SOPA) it makes no difference which one they press. The "D" and "R" agree as well that there should never be anything like proportional representation, ensuring the continued validity of their oligopoly.

Re:US, get out (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091288)

Amen

(embarrassed to be an American)
EDIT: Captcha was Justice

Re:US, get out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091664)

Why dew hate 'merica son?

Re:US, get out (5, Insightful)

suomynonAyletamitlU (1618513) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091940)

I don't hate America, but I do tend to hate its leadership. The two are distinctly different. Same with China--I don't doubt most of those billion citizens are great people who, language barriers aside, I'd be happy to be friends with. Same, indeed, with most nations that we're not politically aligned with.

If only the politicians, corporate officers, media moguls, etc, were the people in the trenches when the wars come.

Re:US, get out (2)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091944)

Well, speaking for myself, because it's mostly full of people like you.

Re:US, get out (-1, Troll)

jbolden (176878) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091298)

They do what they have to do inside their country, but they have never tried to block or manipulate other countries to do the same.

I was in college during Tiananmen Square. Chinese students studying in America were persecuted for things they said on the internet here once they got back home.

They install their own law enforcement agents inside other countries in the name of "providing training"

Other countries do that to. US forces are trained by foreign countries at the Center on Global Counterterrorism.

US is the only country in the world that has been constantly in war with at least one country

In all fairness the US is essentially policing the world right now. It is not exactly an even comparison.

They try to extradite people from other countries to jail them for years in US soil.

Not that often. And generally the country that the people are being extradited from is glad for the US taking the case.

Re:US, get out (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091518)

Are you trolling? (I'm not, btw, but can't tell from your tone)

> I was in college during Tiananmen Square. Chinese students studying in America were persecuted for things they said on the internet here once they got back home.

China being China, why do you want to justify US actions based on their example? Are you living in United States of China, by chance?

> Other countries do that to. US forces are trained by foreign countries at the Center on Global Counterterrorism.

Come on! What bases from other countries are operating on US ground? I hope you're not being paid too much!

> In all fairness the US is essentially policing the world right now.

What's fair about this? Unless you define policing like Rodney King.

> And generally the country that the people are being extradited from is glad for the US taking the case.

Yes, you're doing them a favor. Right.

It's guys like you who create an awful image of the USA for us foreigners.

Re:US, get out (5, Insightful)

next_ghost (1868792) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091538)

In all fairness the US is essentially policing the world right now. It is not exactly an even comparison.

They're policing the world in the same sense a bully "polices" his classroom. In either case, nobody asked them to and nobody wants them to.

They try to extradite people from other countries to jail them for years in US soil.

Not that often. And generally the country that the people are being extradited from is glad for the US taking the case.

Orly? Who will be glad for the US taking the case when Julian Assange gets extradited?

Re:US, get out (1, Insightful)

Raumkraut (518382) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091776)

Orly? Who will be glad for the US taking the case when Julian Assange gets extradited?

Julian Assange will. He'll get the massive publicity that he craves, plus the smug satisfaction that he was right.

Re:US, get out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091850)

They do what they have to do inside their country, but they have never tried to block or manipulate other countries to do the same.

I was in college during Tiananmen Square. Chinese students studying in America were persecuted for things they said on the internet here once they got back home.

Persecuting ones citizen for things they have done abroad is not that unusual, even though what the Chinese government did was very wrong. But it is in no way the same as blocking or manipulating other countries, not even close. Who modded this "informative"?

US is the only country in the world that has been constantly in war with at least one country

In all fairness the US is essentially policing the world right now. It is not exactly an even comparison.

The US has commited war crimes and broken several international laws. Your bias towards the US and blindness to it's faults has come pretty obvious by now

Re:US, get out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38092166)

Stupid. There's no "fairness" in the US policing the world. Throw up the cool aid and listen to what even your compatriots recognize.

Re:US, get out (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091336)

We don't necessarily have to mod this insightful, but "Troll"? We might as well rename it to "Score -5, Doesn't agree with me".

Re:US, get out (5, Interesting)

Psmylie (169236) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091396)

As a US citizen, I also find these practices unacceptable. The current mentality of complete control by our government has gotten entirely too far out of hand in this country. I vote my conscience in every election, and I write letters and am as politically active as I can be while still holding down a job, but there's only so much I can do when so many of my fellow Americans are bound and determined to allow our own government to undermine everything that our country is supposed to stand for.

Actions like this by the EU are pretty much the last hope I have of something may give the US the wake up call that we so desperately need. Unfortunately, with the US's current extremely confrontational attitude, the only reaction that I can see is a bunch of angry griping about how the rest of the world just better shut up and stay out of our business. Still, I applaud the EU and anyone else that refuses to tow the US-mandated line.

Re:US, get out (5, Insightful)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091606)

I agree with the statement as well. The problem is that it doesn't matter how many people get upset. Our government is bought and paid for and normal citizens simply can't outbid corporations. The most ironic situation in my mind is in a few decades we have to overthrow our government and look to Europe for help.

Re:US, get out (4, Interesting)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091832)

I propose the following:

1) Only Citizens capable of voting in an election can contribute to campaigns they are eligible to vote on.

2) PACs cannot donate to Campaigns to ELECTED offices.

3) Corporations cannot donate to Campaigns.

4) Unions cannot donate to Campaigns.

Corporations and Unions can run their own damn campaigns making it clear exactly where the $$ is coming from. Further, Corporations and Unions would be forbidden to form "PACs" for the purposes of obfuscating financing.

But I would also REVOKE all personal donation limits to campaigns, provided that they are from Citizens eligible to vote for those representatives. I'm NOT restricting Corporations or Unions from Political Speech, just making it clear that they have to run their own campaigns for the candidates they want to support, with clear notifications of who is sponsoring the campaigns.

Our Liberties have been watered down and diluted by Corporations and Unions making unrestricted contributions to political parties.

Re:US, get out (2)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | more than 2 years ago | (#38092148)

Every one of those suggestions makes a ton of sense (I may even borrow a few of them for future arguments) but we'll never see them applied. The goal of those in power is to retain that power, your proposal would threaten that.

Re:US, get out (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38092136)

Well, not entirely.

For example, the DemandProgress guys have been fighting the internet backlist bill for a while. Just yesterday I got a notice that 800,000 people had sent correspondence to their representatives about it. That's just the ONE group... and almost a million people.

This bill keeps getting put on the table and slapped down. I'm hoping (perhaps naively) that we have something to do with it.

Re:US, get out (-1, Troll)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091424)

As an EU citizen, I find US practices completely unacceptable.

Then don't register your domain here if you don't like the rules here. Problem solved.

The whole world would be much saner, happier and peaceful place without US.

ya, right, remember that the next time we bail your ass out of trouble. Idiot.

Re:US, get out (5, Insightful)

CmdrPony (2505686) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091512)

That's a little hard when ICANN and Verisign (the company that handles .com .net and even some other countries TLD's) are US companies, don't you think?

But your idea is good, in a way. We just need to move the control out of US. We should have done so ages ago. Move what ICANN and the global TLD's under some new body that only has certain established rules and doesn't mandate any single country's laws to their policies. Or move them under United Nations.

US can keep their .us TLD, which is the actual TLD given to United States.

Re:US, get out (0)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091650)

Yes that was the case, but today, there are other options for people that don't want to register here in the US. Which is my point, no one is forced.

And no the UN is a bad answer, for ANY question. ( well except if you are asking what should be disbanded )

Re:US, get out (1)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091828)

ARIN still handles the IP addresses for Canada and the Caribbean. It is located in the US and there is no alternative.

Re:US, get out (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091756)

Moving them to the United Nations doesn't solve or prevent anything, but the concept is good.

Since these corporations need to be somewhere, it will never be about where they are, it will always be about sanity in managing these core Internet functions. And that means dealing with governments, and we Americans need to once again shower our representatives with enlightened advice, as in 'don't DO that!!!'.

Seriously, I have to get my reps' addresses out ahd hit them with informative emails, pointing out that no matter how much they want to 'solve' this copyright problem, this is NOT the solution. Argh.

Re:US, get out (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091796)

Move ICANN to Norway. Best country in the world, I speak as a non-native.

Re:US, get out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091532)

I'm a US citizen and my domains aren't registered here.

Re:US, get out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091500)

You act like everyone doesn't already know all this. :)

Re:US, get out (1)

chispito (1870390) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091584)

...They do what they have to do inside their country

That's right, let China do whatever it wants to its own 1.3 billion citizens, just don't let them take down my torrent site.

Re:US, get out (1, Troll)

CmdrPony (2505686) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091732)

You seem to think that it's living hell for Chinese, every day. It's not. Having lived there (and elsewhere in the Asia) for long time, it's really peaceful and nice. Even cops act like human beings, compared to the US mentality of shooting first, asking questions later. The only thing you cannot do is try to get a gathering of millions of people to riot on streets. Do you honestly think such a thing would be good in China, with billions of people? It would turn the country in turmoil. And besides, it wouldn't be allowed in US either. Hell, in US you apparently get arrested for dancing [therightscoop.com] .

Re:US, get out (5, Interesting)

BMOC (2478408) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091692)

Have you seen the approval ratings of the U.S. Congress? They are abysmal and have been there for a very long time. This group does not represent its citizens, not by a longshot. This is an example of what happens when corporations corrupt a representative process.

Re:US, get out (5, Interesting)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091708)

This is why NO key element in the Internet Backbone should belong to any individual corporation or any individual country. The backlash against the UN owning them was, I think, a serious mistake by geeks. Assuming a benign (even relatively speaking) US is clearly bogus. Placing ownership completely outside of any nation is the best hope we have. True, the UN hasn't exactly been perfect, but it is the closest we have to a multinational system that special interests (including the special interests of specific national agencies) cannot readily control.

In and of itself, though, this is not sufficient. We'd have to move away from the spanning tree topology currently popular on the Internet (because it's cheap) and move to as close to a full mesh topology - even across international borders - as finances permit.

The first part makes overt control much more difficult. The second part makes covert control much more difficult. Without both, total control - including over other nations - remains a possibility. This MUST be stopped.

I do not believe that private corporations, who are slaves to profits, are capable of deploying such a mesh. It would be expensive and would eliminate the congestion problems they're using as excuses to hike rates, so they'd be spending more and earning less. Shareholders would never permit it. That means the Internet can only be run either by a quango (a semi-devolved agency, similar to the British BBC, where it runs independently via an established charter even though it is government-funded) OR by a non-profit group that also has core policy defined by charter but is funded by the userbase.

So a UN quango (ie: the UN can only negotiate and enforce the terms of the charter, and where it is legally obliged to pay the charter-defined amount annually, but the quango is otherwise politically outside of the UN) would be the logical solution. It would defeat nationalists usurping the Internet, it would prevent many of the problems feared when UN ownership has been talked of before, but the UN would be contractually obliged to provide any and all protections necessary to stop nations threatening other nations' usage.

I don't seriously expect to get a positive response to this, but I can honestly think of no other solution since everything else has been tried and been shown to be a disaster.

Re:US, get out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091922)

As an EU citizen, I find US practices completely unacceptable. Even China doesn't try to restrict other countries. They do what they have to do inside their country, but they have never tried to block or manipulate other countries to do the same. Yet US has the balls and hypocrisy to accuse China about its censorship practices, as do most US citizens here on Slashdot.

US is much worse than China. They try to force their views and laws globally. They install their own law enforcement agents inside other countries in the name of "providing training" to manipulate. They revoke IP addresses and domains used by non-US people. They try to extradite people from other countries to jail them for years in US soil. Have you noticed that most of world has actually sane amount of years you have to spend in jail if you do something bad? In US the minimum seems to be at least 10 years. Usually you can go in for life. Sometimes several lifes. In most civilized countries, you're only going to be spending more than 10 years if you kill somebody. In the same way, the sentences are longer if you physically harm someone. Not for downloading a fucking song off the internet.

This doesn't even only apply to copyright laws. This is just common practice with everything. For example, in most of Asia and South America there was nothing wrong with using some drugs. That is, before US started their whole war on drugs thing and couldn't just keep it within it's own borders. They had to start going around the world telling people what to do. Don't you seriously have better things to spend money on, like fixing your damn problems first? Regardless, there is nothing wrong with smoking some pot. It's both more relaxing and healthy than alcohol, which causes several health problems in people (and makes some people really aggressive).

And yet, US acts all surprised when they are told to get the fuck out, after which they bring out the guns and start shooting people. US is the only country in the world that has been constantly in war with at least one country. Usually there is several enemies. The whole world would be much saner, happier and peaceful place without US.

Wish I could +1 your post.

Re:US, get out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38092124)

As a US citizen I find it amusing anytime someone from the EU says anything about US censorship. I also agree that we shouldn't police the world. I think we should let all of Europe speak German next time. I'm glad being a US citizen gives me the right to say just about anything I want. Europe doesn't provide you with those same protections. If you think it does trying saying the Holocaust didn't happen in Holland, or wear a Nazi symbol in Germany, how about saying anything resembling a disdain for Islam or Muslims while in France. In all fairness, I like most Muslims, I despise Nazis and I firmly believe the Holocaust did in fact occur. I just believe in a person's right to be as ignorant and wrong as they want. Which is why, even if given the power, I would not stop you from running your mouth. In most civilized countries we realize words and symbols only have as much power as you give them. I agree the US war on drugs is a failed policy. I agree we should let the world police themselves. As a matter of fact I think the US should not help anyone in the EU until all of our current debt is paid off. We should wash our hands of you completely. I think we should close all of our foreign military bases. We should not allow any foreign military to train with us. In fact I believe the United States with be a much saner, happier and peaceful place without the EU. As to the internet. Fuck you we invented it. Invent something better and then you can control it then we would be stuck being simpering whine bags just like YOU!

Happy news (1)

davecb (6526) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091226)

Bravo to the EP. Now if we could get Canada to grow a backbone...
--dave

Re:Happy news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091362)

Bravo to the EP. Now if we could get Canada to grow a backbone...

--dave

As much as I agree with the sentiment, I fear that this might actually be counterproductive. A lot of US Senators might react by saying, "you can't tell us what to do, we're a sovereign country, and I'm going to vote in favor of this thing out of spite."

Re:Happy news (1)

Elbart (1233584) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091374)

Hats don't have backbones.

US to erect Great Atlantic Firewall (4, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091228)

3.. 2.. 1..

For all the ills of Europe, they seem to have a pretty good grip on freedoms which are eroding in USA and Australia.

Re:US to erect Great Atlantic Firewall (2)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091294)

> 3.. 2.. 1..

And that's entirely different from the Great China Firewall because... no wait...

Re:US to erect Great Atlantic Firewall (4, Insightful)

migla (1099771) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091546)

I don't know. I mean, sure there are lots of great advantages in the eu compared to the us, like not locking up such large proportions of poor darker skinned people, not such a deep and wide economic chasm dividing the people, vacation, health care... And now recently also this freedom thing...

I'm kind of surprised about this. Maybe everything in the halls of power in Europe hasn't turned completely to shit just yet. If it isn't just posturing, then great, but I won't get my hopes up about a non-retarded world to live in.

Were headed for the same authoritarian privatized stratification. The same ideology with the same bizarrely rich people on top is shaping our world too. We're just a bit behind due to some legacy cruft in our culture and politics.

Re:US to erect Great Atlantic Firewall (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091814)

I don't know. I mean, sure there are lots of great advantages in the eu compared to the us, like not locking up such large proportions of poor darker skinned people, not such a deep and wide economic chasm dividing the people, vacation, health care... And now recently also this freedom thing...

I'm kind of surprised about this. Maybe everything in the halls of power in Europe hasn't turned completely to shit just yet. If it isn't just posturing, then great, but I won't get my hopes up about a non-retarded world to live in.

Were headed for the same authoritarian privatized stratification. The same ideology with the same bizarrely rich people on top is shaping our world too. We're just a bit behind due to some legacy cruft in our culture and politics.

Judge Dredd will be by shortly because you haven't got the right attitude.

I dunno. Really, I see so many laws motivated by MONEY in the USA, who gets the monopoly, who can take it from someone else, outrageous tort awards, etc. I feel like EU is more often writing laws to protect the people or expand their rights (imagine writing a law that actually restricts the power of government, whoa!)

Re:US to erect Great Atlantic Firewall (2)

Obfuscant (592200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091704)

For all the ills of Europe, they seem to have a pretty good grip on freedoms which are eroding in USA and Australia.

Yes, because there certainly is no need for anyone to be able to discuss the National Socialist Party or any recent revivals of same anywhere in Europe, or to allow discussion of the founder of Islam, or any such stuff that we can do over here. Certainly no need for that at all. And God knows that British bans on info on celebrities are certainly required in these uncertain times.

Please, Europe isn't the Bastion of freedom any more than the US is.

Re:US to erect Great Atlantic Firewall (4, Informative)

damburger (981828) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091778)

Only Germany forbids Nazi symbols by law (gee, I wonder why?) and the Danish government, along with most other EU governments, reacted with indignation when radical islamists when crazy over some cartoons. Yes, super injunctions here in the UK are stupid. So stupid that one of our own MPs scuppered one in Parliament to prove a point. The US does not have a monopoly on freedom.

If more foreign criticism follows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091236)

I bet foreign emulation of misguided legislation follows first.

That does it (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091244)

We've lost. The Republicans in Congress will get their panties in a bunch and insist on passing this bill, even if they might have been convinced otherwise before. They simply can't have it appear that they're taking orders or even advice from Europe.

Hypocrites! (4, Informative)

F-3582 (996772) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091256)

At the same time they release a directive [europa.eu] that includes optional web censoring. For the sake of our children, of course!

Re:Hypocrites! (1)

Stan92057 (737634) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091366)

And whats wrong with protecting our children?

Re:Hypocrites! (2)

F-3582 (996772) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091494)

Reminds me of our beloved four horsemen.

Re:Hypocrites! (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091570)

Ostensible protection of children is used to justify all kinds of unjust violations of freedom and privacy, and many such violations actually don't do much if anything to make children safer.

If you want someone to gladly become your slave, just insist that you are taking control of their lives "to protect the children" (whether that is true or not).

Here is a good quote on the subject:

"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."

--Mein kampf, Adolf Hitler.

Re:Hypocrites! (4, Interesting)

F-3582 (996772) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091864)

Göring said similar things years after:

Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.

History doesn't repeat, it rhymes.

Re:Hypocrites! (2)

next_ghost (1868792) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091662)

Well, if you think that making pedophiles go out in the streets hunting for real live children to molest instead of letting them jerk off over animated pr0n protects your children...

Re:Hypocrites! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091772)

This. What is there on the Internet to be protected from? Seeing a few images? I've yet to see sufficient scientific evidence to support the theory that seeing a few images somehow scars a child for life.

Re:Hypocrites! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38092096)

Because trying to censor the web is retarded.
It won't stop a god damn thing from happening.

It's not exactly hard for some dude to go on Facebook and interact with kids if they do wanted to, without ever being found out too.
And it won't stop some molester from grabbing a kid from the outsides of a school, even several molesters in a van.

B-B-BUT THE PEDOS ON THE INTERNETS AND THE KIDS, IF WE HIDE THE CHILD PORN, EVERYONE IS SAFE!
Seriously, you are talking about retards who have the intelligence of repressed kids beaten with a cane for rejecting some holy saviour.
I'm not even kidding, the idiots who push for this are religious fundies who want to push their agenda against everyone, they already succeeded in making everyone think that a pedo is anyone who interacts with someone under the Age of Consent through FUD tactics and legislation. And worse, this is even held up in court to such retarded extents, including HAVING TEENS LABELED SEX OFFENDERS FOR SHARING NAKED PICTURES WITH EACH OTHER IN A RELATIONSHIP, AS WELL AS "PRODUCING CHILD PORN." That is how retarded this shit is.
They are delusional and should be removed from any position of power permanently. They aren't rational.
The same is happening right now in the EU with the recent push for bans on animated people "who look young" HAVING RIGHTS AS IF THEY ARE REAL PEOPLE. It isn't even about age either, if they look young, PEEEEEEEEDO, regardless of whatever universe they live in, or even if they have god damn thighs of rabbits and could probably kick a persons head off. (see the TERA Elin race mess)

"Children" aren't innocent, they are abusive little shits who now know that they can take advantage of their position in law as "a minor" to get what they want. AND MANY USE IT. I know this personally as someone related who is now officially dead to me was doing this nonsense with a few people, threatening them with "I'll say you are a pedo if you don't give me stuff."
I'm not even kidding either. Little slut got caught out though and she is in deep shit.
It happens a lot more too.
But of course, we can't have people knowing that now, can we? "Children" are innocent after all.
Fuck children. Seriously. Actually, no, fuck the law and government for allowing absolutely unstable, delusion retards any say in what happens.
Keep your nutcases America, we don't want them. We got rid of your idiots once before, we'll damn well do it again if we have to.

Re:Hypocrites! (3, Informative)

Spad (470073) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091530)

I believe you're referring to section 47, which as you point out is entirely optional for member states and says things such as:

Mechanisms may also be put in place to block access from the Union's territory to internet pages identified as containing or disseminating child pornography. The measures undertaken by Member States in accordance with this Directive in order to remove or, where appropriate, block websites containing child pornography could be based on various types of public action, such as legislative, non-legislative, judicial or other.

Emphasis mine.

Whichever basis for action or method is chosen, Member States should ensure that it provides an adequate level of legal certainty and predictability to users and service providers.

Any such developments must take account of the rights of the end users and comply with existing legal and judicial procedures and the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.

It's not quite the same thing is what SOPA is proposing to do now, is it.

Re:Hypocrites! (4, Interesting)

F-3582 (996772) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091702)

No, but slamming the US for proposing a law that includes censorship (regardless of the approach) while permitting their own members to censor their own citizens' access, is hypocrisy.

Re:Hypocrites! (4, Insightful)

Spad (470073) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091938)

Not really. The EU is slamming the US for proposing a law that includes censorship of other countries by way of a unilateral decision that "if we can access it from the US and it's technically possible to shut it down, we're allowed to" and the conditions under which SOPA would "allow" this are so vague as to be applicable to just about any site that they want it to.

The EU directive in question permits member states to block access to sites containing child pornography for their own citizens if they so choose.

I'm not saying that the EU is inherently right in what this directive permits or forbids, but to say that the two things are comparable is seriously misstating the situation.

Re:Hypocrites! (1)

GauteL (29207) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091550)

At the same time they release a directive [europa.eu] that includes optional web censoring. For the sake of our children, of course!

Look, you may have a point about the directive, but you're trying hard to ruin it with that word optional.

Re:Hypocrites! (3, Insightful)

F-3582 (996772) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091744)

Doesn't matter. Taking a stance against censorship while giving its own members permission to do exactly the same thing is hypocrisy.

I am truly chagrined... (2)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091268)

...that the EU is showing more sense than the US....

Re:I am truly chagrined... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091586)

To be honest, it's not all that unusual.

Re:I am truly chagrined... (5, Funny)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091794)

The basic problem arose when the Pilgrims migrated from Europe to the New World, splitting society in half. This left Europe with brains and no backbone, whereas the US has backbone and no brains.

Re:I am truly chagrined... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38092138)

US has been called a brain-drain. Apparently it is were the brains are circling when flushed out the drain.

Re:I am truly chagrined... (2)

cowboy76Spain (815442) | more than 2 years ago | (#38092056)

The EU parliament can call for policies that make sense... because they know nobody is listening to them.

"EU parliament" sounds great, but in reality countries have not ceded sovereignity to it. What really counts are the agreements between the presidents and PM, who are the ones that can push the agreements into their countries. The EU parliament is some sort of golden elephany graveyard (no longer popular politics are sent there to keep them happy and quiet).

Time to replace DNS (5, Insightful)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091280)

I think this is a sign that DNS needs getting replaced with a non-centralized system.

Is there anybody working on such a thing?

Re:Time to replace DNS (1)

CmdrPony (2505686) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091324)

There are several such projects, but nothing will ever come out of them because casual people just won't make the switch. That is why people need to demand that governments don't start censoring the internet, and tell them it's acceptable practice.

Re:Time to replace DNS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091726)

I'd be happy with a carefully-written trojan that spreads around and silently makes all WinXP/Win7 machines start using a decentralized DNS lookup. As you've said, most people are casual users and wouldn't even notice so long as it didn't crash their systems...

It's one of the few cases where I think there could be such a thing as a white-hat trojan. Yeah I know it'd be immediately re-written by some kiddies to do damage or log keystrokes or something.

Re:Time to replace DNS (4, Insightful)

Thundersnatch (671481) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091342)

I think this is a sign that DNS needs getting replaced with a non-centralized system.

Is there anybody working on such a thing?

Good luck with that. This is an industry that hasn't replaced IPv4 despite 15 years of warnings. An industry in which horrifyingly broken and insecure protocols such as SMTP and FTP are still ubiquitous. Once something is widely deployed, it basically cannot be changed, or only changed over the span of decades.

Re:Time to replace DNS (1)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091466)

I think the only thing that is needed is a distributed system for the root servers.

  Then everybody can keep using their BIND or whatever setup, and the only action needed is to register it in the system, and for users to change to a different resolver.

Re:Time to replace DNS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091654)

Good luck with that. This is an industry that hasn't replaced IPv4 despite 15 years of warnings.

What the hell you talking about? 9 of the 13 roots have AAAA records.

Re:Time to replace DNS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091364)

Well, it's pretty already decentralized as it stands now. Unless your talking about some crazy incarnation of a peer-to-peer network.

Re:Time to replace DNS (3, Interesting)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091378)

I think the WTO needs to get involved.

If the US blocks any web sites, the European governments should just block sites like Amazon or Ebay.

Re:Time to replace DNS (1)

piggydoggy (804252) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091594)

If the US blocks any web sites, the European governments should just block sites like Amazon or Ebay.

No, thank you.

Re:Time to replace DNS (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091384)

In theory there doesn't need to be any work. Someone just needs to do it. Anyone can run a DNS and those DNSes can have any policy. I already use Google's DNS as a backup DNS. There are a whole network of anti-censorship tools in place for countries with internet censorship. That's done and easy.

The problem is getting hundreds of millions of Americans to use them. Things like my iPhone don't even give me the option of setting up a secondary DNS.

Re:Time to replace DNS (4, Insightful)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38092024)

Since DNS servers request from other DNS servers (and there can be multiple of those), individuals don't have to have secondary DNS. Anybody running a DNS server can add hooks into a parallel DNS tree. Which is both the greatest strength and the greatest weakness of the system. DNS owners who are corrupt or hostile can link into shadow DNS trees that contain fake entries. So long as the shadow tree has its own DNSSec keys, DNS won't notice any difference at all. Equally, DNS owners who are benign can do exactly the same thing, only pointing to DNS trees containing validated and "good" entries. Essentially undetectable.

Then those hundreds of millions of Americans would see everything in the shadow trees and never know that they were looking into the shadows.

Authorities trying to track down where the shadows lie (outside of Mordor) will need to invent a traceroute for the DNS protocol and had better hope all DNS servers (a) respond to it, and (b) always pass such packets to the shadow realms (a bloody stupid thing to do). Otherwise, the link(s) into the other tree(s) could be almost anywhere.

Re:Time to replace DNS (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091402)

Yep: DNSChanger [f-secure.com] . Even works on Macs [f-secure.com] too!

Disclaimer: please do not blame me it you are actually stupid enough to try installing DNS Changer.

Re:Time to replace DNS (2)

washort (6555) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091802)

Namecoin is a piece of that puzzle. http://dot-bit.org/ [dot-bit.org]

mod Up (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091316)

Are 7000 u5ers

As a US Citizen, (4, Informative)

MSesow (1256108) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091398)

I wrote my senators and representative, and told them I oppose SOPA and PIPA. It may not be much, but it is worth it and it is ridiculously easy now that they have websites that accept messages.

Have you voiced your opinion, other than on some website that the policy makes never see?

Re:As a US Citizen, (4, Informative)

savanik (1090193) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091514)

I wrote my senators and representative, and told them I oppose SOPA and PIPA. It may not be much, but it is worth it and it is ridiculously easy now that they have websites that accept messages.

Have you voiced your opinion, other than on some website that the policy makes never see?

You mean like their website that accepts messages, which they never read? No, not really. That would require effort.

I swear, I've sent one of my state senators an email saying how opposed I was to a bill and I got a form letter back saying, 'Thank you, I agree that that this issue is of vital national importance and will do everything in my power to see this legislation passed.'

They don't read those. Nobody in the senate actually reads their email. Go out and vote for third party candidates. They pay attention to polls.

Re:As a US Citizen, (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091604)

I wrote my senators and representative, and told them I oppose SOPA and PIPA. It may not be much, but it is worth it and it is ridiculously easy now that they have websites that accept messages.

Have you voiced your opinion, other than on some website that the policy makes never see?

It's also ridiculously easy to have an unpaid intern hit the delete key for all those emails.

Re:As a US Citizen, (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091906)

Back when it was letter-writing, they actually had paid secretaries skim and throw all those letters in the trash. But now they get such a volume of emails, they don't even give that much attention.

Re:As a US Citizen, (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091696)

I wrote my Congresspeople. One actually called me a thief in his reply and said that he wanted laws like SOPA to protect people who create and not steal. Either he doesn't understand that this law is for censorship and not copyrights, or can't see past the dollars stuffed in his pockets.

As for Europe, I'm sure they will just whine. The EU is absolutely toothless when it comes to any foreign policies or even raising a finger against abuses done on member company soil. It would be nice to see them do more than mindlessly fall into step with the US lobbyists. The US may be circling the drain, but you Europeans actually have a culture to salvage. You guys in countries that don't suck, do something, before you end up with privatized police from another nation demanding, "papers, please" before you can approach a downtown privatized park for fear that you might actually say something that Fox News doesn't like.

Careful Europe.... (4, Insightful)

RPGillespie (2478442) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091400)

The music and entertainment industries don't like you meddling with the affairs of their puppets...

As a US citizen (3, Funny)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091450)

I don't like what we are doing either, but if you think you have the right to tell another sovereign nation what they can and cant do like this, you can simply go to hell.

Besides, Europe doesn't have a spotless record either.. Hypocrites.

Re:As a US citizen (5, Insightful)

jbolden (176878) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091488)

I think they can and should condemn us when we act in ways contrary to the universal declaration of human rights. They aren't telling us what to do, just telling us we are being jerks.

Re:As a US citizen (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091682)

Umm internet access isn't a human right.

And yes they are, " what you are doing is wrong, do this instead" really is telling someone what to do. Not that they can enforce it of cousre, but they are telling us what they think we should be doing.

Re:As a US citizen (1)

M0j0_j0j0 (1250800) | more than 2 years ago | (#38092180)

Then why does the US insists on reminding China on how they should run the internet, it's the same approach, but US is the Chinese position now.

Re:As a US citizen (2)

king neckbeard (1801738) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091660)

Tell that to the US. A big part of this is trying to control foreign websites, which are not within the US's jurisdiction.

Re:As a US citizen (4, Informative)

Fluffeh (1273756) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091896)

but if you think you have the right to tell another sovereign nation what they can and cant do like this

Surely you are saying this in a tongue in cheek manner? The bill is behind this which is from the US does exactly what you say. It effectively kills a website off the internet because the US doesn't like it. At least all the other "Great Firewall" countries have the decency to only kill it off for their own countries. Do you really think that it is okay for the US to vanish a website hosted in another country, under a .com or .net TLD (which has nothing to do with the US) just because a judge in the US says it is okay? Can you really be that hypocritical?

America! (1, Funny)

Yakasha (42321) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091452)

Fuck Ya!

Censorship (5, Informative)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091516)

It was only a few years ago that the US was complaining that the Voice of America broadcasts were banned via jamming in Cuba and Ethiopia, let alone the many years of jamming under the Iron Curtain. The EU is aware of the slippery slope, once you start blocking copyright stuff then they'll move on to politically undesirable stuff. The Bush administration actively worked to block Al Jazeera, for example.

Well that's different (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38091790)

Blocking American communications hinders the furtherance of American agendas. That is not acceptable.

Blocking non-American communications does not hinder the furtherance of American agendas. In some cases, it greatly helps this goal. Therefore, it is ok to block non-American communications, in some cases. But not all...when non-American communications happen to further American agendas, it is not ok for *anyone* to block those communications.

This position should be simple to understand, and will be enforced upon the entire world as much as is practically possible.

I can just imagine the indignation of the EU (1)

damburger (981828) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091578)

Stop imposing illiberal legislation on people who never voted for it! That's OUR job!

Don't worry too much about it. The EU in its present form cannot survive at all. I'm all for European integration (which is unusual for a Brit) but the EU is a failed project whose bureaucratic nervous system is too sluggish to have told its brain that it is already dead. Its proclaimations should be taken as seriously as those made by the Supreme Soviet of the USSR in 1990.

Re:I can just imagine the indignation of the EU (1)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091902)

My friend, as a future resident of Oceania, let me tell you the big plans we have for Airstrip One...I mean London. As a cultural cousin from across the pond I have to agree with your assessment of the state of the EU. Unfortunately the US is showing signs of crumbling too.

Re:I can just imagine the indignation of the EU (4, Interesting)

damburger (981828) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091954)

Why does the fall of empires have to be a bad thing? Some people think the fall of the Roman Empire was bad - but the most immediate consequence for people living in Europe in the time was fewer legions pointing swords at them demanding tribute.

And just how will they enforce that? (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091730)

Just how are the EU going to enforce that, when they don't have any money?

Al Gore (1)

noems (942524) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091838)

Al Gore Invented the internet. He can censor it however he wants.

I think we all know the US response to this (5, Funny)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 2 years ago | (#38091884)

"Repression Fries"

Pot meet Kettle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38092098)

Blah blah blah US censorship blah blah. Yeah it sucks. But, how would our enlightened EU brothers and sisters respond to a website hosted within their borders called something like theholocaustneverhappened.com ?

they are not "international domain names" (1, Insightful)

t2t10 (1909766) | more than 2 years ago | (#38092154)

The ".com" domain is the domain for US commercial entities; there is no other. Because the US is fairly laissez-faire about it, a lot of foreign registrants have been able to get .com domains, but that doesn't make the TLD "international".

Europe has jurisdiction over .eu, .fr, .de, and other TLDs. The US has jurisdiction over .com, .edu, .org, ..net and a few others.

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